scribia-developers — Discussion of Scribia development.

[Scribia-dev] Response from DTS

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

Doesn't look like we can redistribute MoreFiles. At least that's how I
understand paragraph 2.

And of course they misunderstood my question. I didn't ask if the DTS sample
code was open source - I asked if it could be included with open source.
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

----------
From: dev...@ap...
Subject: Re: OTHER

For information pertaining to DTS sample code, please see the following URL:

ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Sample_Code/!_Apple_License_Agreement.txt

1. 
"This License allows you to use the Apple Software and fonts on a single
Apple computer and make one copy of the Apple Software and fonts in
machine-readable form for backup purposes only."

2. 
"You may not modify, network, rent, lease, loan, distribute or create
derivative works based upon the Apple Software in whole or in part.  You may
not electronically transmit the Apple Software from one computer to another
or over a network."

If you have any other questions, please contact cop...@ap... or by
phone at:

408-974-2205
Also, please know that this is not open source.  For Opensource and Darwin
information, please go to the following:

The basic idea behind open source is very simple. When programmers on the
Internet can read, redistribute, and modify the source for a piece of
software, it evolves. People improve it, adapt it, and fix bugs. It is a
great way for companies and individuals to collaborate on a product, with
the benefits of
building open standards, adding new features, improving reliability, and
shortening the time to market. A formal definition of Open Source can be
found at:

http://www.opensource.org/osd.html

Please contact us if we can be of further assistance.

Best Regards,

Ira
Apple Developer Connection
Worldwide Developer Relations

Re: [Scribia-dev] Bug in the scanner

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

>There *may* be a bug that gets triggered if people speak an exact trainer
>message (or other message the scanner recognizes) in a text bubble. I
>thought the scanner would recognize this, but there may be an issue there.
>I'll look into it "soon".


Haven't tried with trainers, but it does happen with monster kills. 
I had a situation in my log from tonight that exposed it.  There's a 
bug in the CL client that every once in awhile if double reports a 
kill in the log.  I had that happen tonight and commented on.  Then 
Cut and Pasted the line from my text window:

7/19/00 1:44:52a Cygnus says, "7/19/00 1:44:01a You helped vanquish a 
Tuz'Noth."

When I run the log through Scribia, it reports that I helped vanquish 
4 Tuz'Noth (the above message was in twice, plus the 2 messages from 
CL double reporting it).  Probably need to add a condition to the 
scanner to stop if from parsing any line that is <exile> says.  I'm 
guessing that it would increment any item that Scribia counts if an 
exile says the exact message.

-- 
Brad  (aka Cygnus)
cy...@po...
_________________________________________________________________
Oh the words that he spoke
Seemed the wisest of philosophies
There's nothing ever gained
By a wet thing called a tear
When the world is too dark
And I need the light inside of me
I'll walk into a bar
And drink fifteen pints of beer                 -   Shane MacGowen

Re: [Scribia-dev] Bug in the scanner

[Lars E. <la...@IS...>]

>> Just found a bug in I think the scanner.  It may be in the GUI that
>> scribia has right now, but the scanner seems more likely.  Its
>> counting Darkus as Regia.  Scanning about my last month of logs is
>> showing that I trained 44 regia and 0 darkus.  When I really did 24
>> regia and 20 darkus.
> 
> You're right. I briefly looked over the code, and the Darkus case isn't
> there. This means that Scribia will count a match on Darkus as whatever was
> the last match, in your case, Regia. I'll fix it in the next few days; I'll
> also add some code that detects such an omission and throws an exception.

Fixed it. It also happened with Sespus and Skryss. While I was at it, I
added support for clan experience and berries.

I also found a new bug (not yet fixed): Some log messages have the
character's name in it. The scanner needs to check that, so it can
distinguish between our and other people's messages that show up in the log.
This is mostly an issue with items found (if you see someone find an item,
the scanner will rack it up as if you had found the item.)

There *may* be a bug that gets triggered if people speak an exact trainer
message (or other message the scanner recognizes) in a text bubble. I
thought the scanner would recognize this, but there may be an issue there.
I'll look into it "soon".
-- 
Lars Eggert <la...@is...>                   Information Sciences Institute
http://www.isi.edu/~larse/                 University of Southern California

Re: [Scribia-dev] CVS working, copyrights and headers

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

> I can now commit to the archive.

Great!
 
> Some of the files I want to add are marked with my copyright. I need to do
> this since I use the same files in commercial software that I write, and I
> don't want anyone to think that I'm poaching files from a free software
> project.
> 
> Since this doesn't make the source any less free I don't think anyone should
> object, but if anyone does, let me know and I won't check them in.

No problem, as long as you make them available under the same license as the
rest of Scribia (Artistic License, a copy is in the Documentation folder).
Picking another license will create redistibution headaches.

I'd suggest using the HEADER in the Documentation folder at the top of all
your source files, substitute you name for mine, and delete the single log
entry (i.e. everything from below the $Log$ line to the line that has just
dashes.) That way, we have uniformity over all files.
 
> On the subject of headers, I've noticed that the // form of header won't for
> for the comment block at the top of files. RCS (part of CVS) rewrites this
> part when checking in, and sometimes rewraps the lines while doing so. When
> it rewraps a line it fails to put a // at the beginning, causing a
> compilation error.
> 
> I've fixed this in a few files by wrapping the entire block in /**/ style
> comments.

Thanks. I believe this is a bug in the MacCVS client; Unix clients are smart
enough to use the line prefix of the $Log$ line when wrapping/indenting
commit log entries.
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Bug in the scanner

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

>PS: What's your sourceforge user name, Cygnus?



Its Cygnus.  =)

-- 
Brad  (aka Cygnus)
cy...@po...
_________________________________________________________________

The trouble with the world is that
the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt.
		- Bertraud Russel

[Scribia-dev] CVS working, copyrights and headers

[Rob T. <ro...@ts...>]

I can now commit to the archive.

Some of the files I want to add are marked with my copyright. I need to do
this since I use the same files in commercial software that I write, and I
don't want anyone to think that I'm poaching files from a free software
project.

Since this doesn't make the source any less free I don't think anyone should
object, but if anyone does, let me know and I won't check them in.

On the subject of headers, I've noticed that the // form of header won't for
for the comment block at the top of files. RCS (part of CVS) rewrites this
part when checking in, and sometimes rewraps the lines while doing so. When
it rewraps a line it fails to put a // at the beginning, causing a
compilation error.

I've fixed this in a few files by wrapping the entire block in /**/ style
comments.

Rob

Re: [Scribia-dev] Bug in the scanner

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

> Just found a bug in I think the scanner.  It may be in the GUI that
> scribia has right now, but the scanner seems more likely.  Its
> counting Darkus as Regia.  Scanning about my last month of logs is
> showing that I trained 44 regia and 0 darkus.  When I really did 24
> regia and 20 darkus.

You're right. I briefly looked over the code, and the Darkus case isn't
there. This means that Scribia will count a match on Darkus as whatever was
the last match, in your case, Regia. I'll fix it in the next few days; I'll
also add some code that detects such an omission and throws an exception.

PS: What's your sourceforge user name, Cygnus?
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

[Scribia-dev] Bug in the scanner

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

Hi,

Just found a bug in I think the scanner.  It may be in the GUI that 
scribia has right now, but the scanner seems more likely.  Its 
counting Darkus as Regia.  Scanning about my last month of logs is 
showing that I trained 44 regia and 0 darkus.  When I really did 24 
regia and 20 darkus.

-- 
Brad  (aka Cygnus)
cy...@po...
_________________________________________________________________

The trouble with the world is that
the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt.
		- Bertraud Russel

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

> on 7/16/00 9:13 PM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:
> 
>> Done - any change?
> 
> Nope. I'll open up a customer support thingy.

Rifkin, just to have all the bases covered: You did open a customer support
item with them before, to ask that CVS pserver be turned on for rtsuk,
right? They'll send you a pserver password by email.

(By default, it isn't, they expect people to use SSH - which would be fine
if their setup was so that forwarded connections would work for Macs.)
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Rob T. <ro...@ts...>]

on 7/16/00 9:13 PM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:

> Done - any change?

Nope. I'll open up a customer support thingy.

Rob

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

>> on 7/16/00 1:07 PM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:
>> 
>>> Yes. Do you want to open a customer service item with them?
>> 
>> One thing to try first; take away my write access and then give it back to
>> me. Perhaps that will kickstart it.
> 
> Will try as soon as I can connect to the site - still network troubles.

Done - any change?
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

> on 7/16/00 1:07 PM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:
> 
>> Yes. Do you want to open a customer service item with them?
> 
> One thing to try first; take away my write access and then give it back to
> me. Perhaps that will kickstart it.

Will try as soon as I can connect to the site - still network troubles.
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Rob T. <ro...@ts...>]

on 7/16/00 1:07 PM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:

> Yes. Do you want to open a customer service item with them?

One thing to try first; take away my write access and then give it back to
me. Perhaps that will kickstart it.

Rob

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

>> Are you sure you're using a fresh tree checked out as rtsuk, with a new CVS
>> project file if the application needs one?
> 
> Yes, and I just repeated it to be sure. No dice.

I figured you were quite capable of using a fresh tree, I just wanted to
double-check ;-)
 
> I assume the link between the web interface and the actual CVS server is
> broken. I suspect sourceforge support needs to get involved.

Yes. Do you want to open a customer service item with them?
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Rob T. <ro...@ts...>]

on 7/16/00 11:19 AM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:

> Which CVS application are you using MacCVS (the WinCVS port) or MacCVS Pro
> (from Netscape, I think)? (Both worked for me, though.)

MacCVS Pro.

> What does that warning say? Is there a more detailed error message
> available?

| "add" requires write access to the repository
|
| The add could not be completed because the CVS server returned an error.
| Check the warnings to see what went wrong.

No more details available.

> Are you sure you're using a fresh tree checked out as rtsuk, with a new CVS
> project file if the application needs one?

Yes, and I just repeated it to be sure. No dice.

I assume the link between the web interface and the actual CVS server is
broken. I suspect sourceforge support needs to get involved.

Rob

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

> on 7/15/00 12:16 PM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:
> 
>> Rifkin, are you trying to add to the CVS tree you checked out as anonymous -
>> that won't work. After sourceforge gives you pserver access, you need to
>> check out a new copy of the tree using your login (as rtsuk in your case)
>> and pserver password. In that tree, you can commit things.
> 
> Did that but still get the following messages:
> 
> | "add" requires write access to the repository
> |
> | The add could not be completed because the CVS server returned an error.
> | Check the warnings to see what went wrong.

Hm. Your login (rtsuk) is listed as a scribia developer with CVS write on
the project page. (I cannot seem to get to it right now - network trouble -
but I checked yesterday when your first email arrived.)

Which CVS application are you using MacCVS (the WinCVS port) or MacCVS Pro
(from Netscape, I think)? (Both worked for me, though.)

What does that warning say? Is there a more detailed error message
available?

Are you sure you're using a fresh tree checked out as rtsuk, with a new CVS
project file if the application needs one? CVS stores information about the
checkout persistently in either CVS subdirectories in each tree, or in the
resource fork of the files themselves. So just changing the settings in the
CVS project file may fail, maybe there's still incorrect settings lurking
somewhere...
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

[Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Rob T. <ro...@ts...>]

on 7/15/00 12:16 PM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:

> Rifkin, are you trying to add to the CVS tree you checked out as anonymous -
> that won't work. After sourceforge gives you pserver access, you need to
> check out a new copy of the tree using your login (as rtsuk in your case)
> and pserver password. In that tree, you can commit things.

Did that but still get the following messages:

| "add" requires write access to the repository
|
| The add could not be completed because the CVS server returned an error.
| Check the warnings to see what went wrong.

Rob

[Scribia-dev] Re: write access to repository

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

> While I have pserver access to the scribia repository for rtsuk, I don't
> appear to have write access. At least attempts to add a file fail with a
> claim that I don't have write access.

Rifkin, are you trying to add to the CVS tree you checked out as anonymous -
that won't work. After sourceforge gives you pserver access, you need to
check out a new copy of the tree using your login (as rtsuk in your case)
and pserver password. In that tree, you can commit things.

CC'ing the list, because I think other people may run into the same problem,
too.
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Re: Pug's and Rifkin's mails

[Rob T. <ro...@ts...>]

on 7/13/00 11:25 PM, Lark at la...@fe... wrote:

> If you want to, I can create a branch off the main CVS tree for the GUI
> development, so you can use CVS on those files without hurting anyone. Once
> the GUI has stabilized, we can merge it back into the main branch.

Merging resource files is a terrible pain, since no tools I know of handle
them well. We should avoid it.

> Or, we can just declare here and now that those are "your" files until
> further notice.

So declared.

To make things easier, I'm planning on having all my new resources have IDs
in the range 8000-8999 (the rtsuk range). If someone feels they have to add
a resource, merging will be less painful if they pick IDs from outside that
range.

Rob

[Scribia-dev] Re: Pug's and Rifkin's mails

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

> From: Pugwash <pu...@ac...>
> Personally, I like the header in the subject line but shortening would be
> fine. What about [Scribia-dev] or something like that?
This is what I set it to.

> Or just [Scribia]?
Ambigous, once scribia-users and -announce starts.



> From: Rob Tsuk <ro...@ts...>
> It seems like the consensus is clone the Scribus UI to start, which seems
> fine to me.
Something like it would be an excellent starting point, but feel free to
leave things unimplemented if its too complicated for a first cut. (I have
seriously no idea about GUI programming - to me, it looks complex...)
 
> Is there anyone but me who plans to work on the UI in the next week, or even
> plans to modify the ScribiaResources.ppob or ScribiaResources.rsrc files? If
> so we need to coordinate, since merging those files will be troublesome.
If you want to, I can create a branch off the main CVS tree for the GUI
development, so you can use CVS on those files without hurting anyone. Once
the GUI has stabilized, we can merge it back into the main branch.

Or, we can just declare here and now that those are "your" files until
further notice.
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

[Scribia-dev] Changes to source

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

I've made some changes to the source tonight:
    € enabled some warnings and warning pragmas
    € removed DragLib (was not needed I think)
    € added support for Halfling/Dwarven/Sylvan language trainers; and
      pathfinding (need log messages for other trainers!)
    € moved all GUI stuff into the ScribiaDoc.* files, which will go away
      with the coming new GUI
    € removed some unnecessary include files from some sources
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

[Scribia-dev] Re: Lumpy's and Rifkin's mails & other news

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

>  > Can Lark change mailing list option to default to replying to the list
>>  rather than the individual?
>
>I tried to. Let me know if it works.


It just worked for me with replying to this message.


>     * Pugwash has problems compiling the CVS tree, but he is not using
>       CW5.3 yet - I asked him to update, and we'll see if that fixes things
>       for him


Updating should fix his problem.  In the long list of compile 
problems I had, part of it was do to not being updated to 5.3.



>     * Pugwash, Geotzou and me chatted in the lands tonight, and talked about
>       some development ideas:
>
>         * Geotzou would like to see graphs over time, e.g. ranks-over-time,
>           kills-over-time, etc. I'm all for anything that make Scribia
>           fun; I'd like to concentrate on essentials first though (i.e.
>           implement all of Scribus' features)


Could be cool to have, but it might also get depressing.  My rank 
rate graph would make the stock market in '29 look like it gained. 
I've gone from 5 ranks per hour to 1 rank in 5 hours. =)



>         * I mentioned I'd like Scribia to be able to grok all log files
>           since the ripture war, so while adding new things, we should make
>           sure old logs are still understood. (I have all my logs since
>           then, so at least for healers, we have something to test it
>           against.)


I'd like for it to be able to do that as well.  I was planning on 
rescanning all my logs once scribia is done.  I do have all my logs 
from the war on.  So we should be covered for logs.  I can remember 
the messages given for kills and money changing at least on or two 
times.  I think some of the experience messages (from chests, random, 
ect) have changed a little too.


>         * We talked about adding eye candy to the GUI, such as
>           trainer/item/monster graphics from CL, pending an okay from Joe to
>           use them.


This is something to be careful with.  Clan Lord Log viewer seemed to 
bog down a little and get less user friendly when Mike started adding 
graphics to everything.  Some would be nice though.  A good balance 
will just need to be found.

-- 
Brad  (aka Cygnus)
cy...@po...
_________________________________________________________________

The trouble with the world is that
the stupid are cocksure and the
intelligent are full of doubt.
		- Bertraud Russel

[Scribia-dev] Re: Lumpy's and Rifkin's mails & other news

[Lark <la...@fe...>]

> From: Lumpy <mi...@ma...>
> I have been able to compile and run Scribia using MoreFiles 1.5.  I
> needed to make a number of modifications, specifically including some
> new constants from the latest Files.h, altering how some of the 64 bit
> math was handled and defining a couple of inlines for creating and
> disposing of a timer proc.
> 
> All of these changes are made in the MoreFiles sources, and will be
> obsolete once the latest headers are available for CodeWarrior.
> 
> In the meantime, what is the plan? Are we planning to use the older
> MoreFiles, a modified set of the 1.5 sources, or some other solution?

Are there any critical fixes in MoreFiles 1.5.0? If not, I think we should
stay with 1.4.9 until CW supports compiling it w/o patches. Otherwise,
compilation instructions will get complicated.

I've contactes Apple DTS to clarify if we can redistribute DTS sample code
(e.g. MoreFiles) with Scribia. No answer yet, other than that the customer
service person is asking developers what the answer is. :-)



> From: Rob Tsuk <ro...@ts...>
> Can Lark change mailing list option to default to replying to the list
> rather than the individual?

I tried to. Let me know if it works.
 
> Also, the [Scribia-developers] in the subject is quite annoying. Does anyone
> mind if Lark turns it off, or at least make it something much shorter. Can
> you, Lark?

I've just set it to [Scribia-dev]. I can change it again, any suggestions?


Other news:

    € Geotzou let me know he'd like to help with Scribia

    € Pugwash has problems compiling the CVS tree, but he is not using
      CW5.3 yet - I asked him to update, and we'll see if that fixes things
      for him

    € Pugwash, Geotzou and me chatted in the lands tonight, and talked about
      some development ideas:

        € Geotzou would like to see graphs over time, e.g. ranks-over-time,
          kills-over-time, etc. I'm all for anything that make Scribia
          fun; I'd like to concentrate on essentials first though (i.e.
          implement all of Scribus' features)

        € I mentioned I'd like Scribia to be able to grok all log files
          since the ripture war, so while adding new things, we should make
          sure old logs are still understood. (I have all my logs since
          then, so at least for healers, we have something to test it
          against.)

        € We talked about adding eye candy to the GUI, such as
          trainer/item/monster graphics from CL, pending an okay from Joe to
          use them.

    € I have a copy of Apollo's Scribus sources; I cannot redistribute
      them (I could ask him though if there's interest) - so I can
      always check how "Scribus does things"

    € FYI: Fleming is working on "Mists of Time", an open source game going
      in the same direction as Clan Lord. It's hosted on sourceforge, too.
      ("Mists" is also the reason why my clan lord Fleming can't help with
      Scribia :-)  
-- 
Lark <la...@fe...>

[Scribia-developers] UI work

[Rob T. <ro...@ts...>]

It seems like the consensus is clone the Scribus UI to start, which seems
fine to me.

Is there anyone but me who plans to work on the UI in the next week, or even
plans to modify the ScribiaResources.ppob or ScribiaResources.rsrc files? If
so we need to coordinate, since merging those files will be troublesome.

Rob

Re: [Scribia-developers] Using the mailing list

[Pugwash <pu...@ac...>]

>Also, the [Scribia-developers] in the subject is quite annoying. Does anyone
>mind if Lark turns it off, or at least make it something much shorter. Can
>you, Lark?

Personally, I like the header in the subject line but shortening would be fine.
What about [Scribia-dev] or something like that?
Or just [Scribia]?



Pugwash
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pugwash on Clan Lord
Neko No Kessha Clan: http://www.grosbill.org/NnK/
Clan Lord: http://www.deltatao.com/clanlord.html
ICQ: 11524889
Hotline: 24.72.12.31
mailto:pu...@ac...
MUGORS: http://tdi.uregina.ca/~mugors
                       t h i n k   d i f f e r e n t