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Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 15:16 +1000, Jamie Cameron wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 13:52, Craig White wrote:

> 
> My feeling is that the choice between LDAP-based mail systems and those
> that use Unix accounts is a matter of philosophy, and of what you want
> users to be able to do. Pure virtual users are great if you are just
> talking about mailboxes, but if you want users to be able to have home
> pages and FTP access, then they need to have Unix accounts. Virtualmin
> is targeted more towards web hosting than running masses of mailboxes,
> so I think that the Unix user approach is the way to go.
> 
> That said, it is actually quite flexible - you can opt to use Qmail+LDAP
> as a mail server, and it will create mailboxes as LDAP users who do not
> necessarily even have to be Unix users. You can then take advantage of
> all the features of LDAP and Cyrus, such as clustering, IMAP-based mail
> readers and so on..
----
I would simply guess that a virtual web host provider will have maybe 1
out of 10 accounts that will want a bunch of mailboxes in addition to
the one or two shell accounts and the one virtual web host.

I won't argue with your logic though - you've clearly demonstrated your
ability to identify needs and satisfy them.

I've been able to get what I need done in LDAP and cyrus-imapd with the
changes you made to LDAP Users and Groups last January + the old but
very effective cyrus-imapd 3rd party module (and the autocreate features
of cyrus-imapd). Interestingly enough, you have provided enough building
blocks so I can make it all work even though you don't use cyrus-imapd.
As you know, I've been hoping that there would have been a groundswell
of interest by others to drive you into spending time adapting webmin
for cyrus-imapd support which clearly hasn't happened.

One thing is certain - that anyone who buys Virtualmin Professional gets
the support of the most responsive developer I have seen.

Craig


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Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 13:52, Craig White wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 17:01 -0500, Joe Cooper wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > - Better LDAP management/integration
> > 
> > Currently, the Virtualmin LDAP support is limited to a couple of 
> > specific use cases, which cover what we've had people request 
> > specifically...but not all LDAP use cases.  In short, users and
> groups 
> > in LDAP are supported, and QMail+LDAP is supported for mail users and 
> > aliases (though I should note that Virtualmin Professional bundles 
> > Postfix, and QMail will never be an included package for Virtualmin 
> > Professional--so, technically, this use case doesn't apply to
> Virtualmin 
> > Professional unless you jump through a few hoops to replace Postfix
> as 
> > the mail server).  We have an open wish in the bug tracker to add 
> > support for Postfix+LDAP for aliases and other stuff.  It is likely
> it 
> > will happen in the next couple-few weeks, as it isn't a huge task and 
> > LDAP is popular in some types of mass-hosting environments.
> > 
> > If anyone has any specific use case examples of using LDAP in a
> virtual 
> > hosting environment, I'd certainly like to hear about it.  Specifics
> are 
> > much easier to develop for than generic "more <feature>" goals.
> > 
> > > - Better Cyrus integration - especially because cyrus-imapd is such
> a
> > > natural for virtual users/virtual domains
> > 
> > We won't be supporting Cyrus, I'm afraid, unless there is real 
> > widespread customer demand for it.  We've chosen Dovecot as our 
> > IMAP/POP3 server.  I know of no compelling reason to support Cyrus
> over 
> > Dovecot, but I'm willing to be wrong.  I've tried them all, and
> Dovecot 
> > is a gorgeous example of elegant design applied to a mundane but 
> > absolutely necessary task...very fast, zero maintenance, extremely 
> > reliable, historically very secure, supports LDAP (and SQL if someone 
> > were sick enough to go down that path for mail), and standards 
> > compliant.  And it works great for virtual hosting environments with
> a 
> > lot of flexibility.
> > 
> > > - Support for Sieve editing by users
> > 
> > Never touched it, though it sounds nice in theory.  We've got 
> > comprehensive Procmail rule editing support--but it is extremely 
> > intimidating for normal users (even some PhDs I know are afraid of 
> > Procmail).  However, I have a hard time imagining that normal users 
> > would find any kind of comprehensive Sieve editing any less
> intimidating 
> > than the current Procmail interface.  Sieve just doesn't look like a 
> > user-level solution for anyone other than you and I and people like
> us. 
> >   My mom will never use Sieve directly and it would be madness for me
> to 
> > try to convince her to use it directly.  Since we can put an
> easy/safe 
> > GUI on either Procmail or Sieve, it's irrelevant to the end user what
> we 
> > use.  What it comes down to is that direct editing of a text-based
> email 
> > processing rules language is just not something normal users are
> going 
> > to do.
> > 
> > Something a customer suggested that I think would be nice is import
> of 
> > existing filters from Mozilla or Outlook.  Though, because these
> things 
> > are stored way deep down in the users home directory and offer no 
> > "export" feature, it would be quite ornery to actually walk a user 
> > through the process of finding their filter file and uploading it. 
> > Maybe we just need to emulate the filter creation model of
> Thunderbird 
> > and/or Outlook, so that users can create filters in Usermin using an 
> > interface they already are familiar with.  Whether it generates Sieve 
> > rules or procmail rules is somewhat irrelevant to the user.  I think
> in 
> > this case, Sieve would be a solution looking for a problem, since we 
> > already have a mail rule processor in place for mail that is more 
> > powerful (of course, Sieve is less powerful by design--but we can 
> > restrict access to the power of procmail as needed, while we can't
> make 
> > Sieve more powerful as needed).
> > 
> > In short, I don't see what our non-computer nerd users could possibly 
> > gain by having Sieve support.  They definitely need filter
> configuration 
> > (which is not very easy to use in Usermin currently, I will concede), 
> > but what language those rules are written in is wholly a question for 
> > the software developer...not the end user.  The end user should never 
> > have to see a programming language, even one that is as simple as
> Sieve. 
> >   For you and me, Sieve would be awesome.  For Virtualmin users, it 
> > would be as pointless as the Procmail interface in Usermin currently
> is.
> > 
> > But, again, I'm willing to be wrong.
> > 
> > > Not that I haven't been able to make good use of webmin but I have
> > > pretty much eschewed usermin in favor of Horde 3/IMP 4/Ingo etc.
> because
> > > it fills the gaps of Sieve/IMAP and a much more robust webmail
> > > interface.
> > 
> > Define "robust"?  What's missing from Usermin's webmail that makes it 
> > less appealing to you (other than IMAP and Sieve, if anything)? 
> > Whatever it is we'd like to address it.  ;-)
> ----
> I'm going to try to keep this a little more tightly defined as you have
> enough on your plate.
> 
> Much of my point involves 'real users' vs. 'virtual users' - Those with
> a shell and a home directory and those that don't have a shell or a home
> directory. The user db being /etc/passwd or sqldb or sasldb or ldap db
> 
> Sieve - If you were familiar with Horde/IMP/Ingo in it's current
> incarnation, you would understand. It's virtually out of the box set up
> so that users can maintain their own filters, set their own vacation
> replies, blacklists, whitelists, and 'fileinto' folders. Unlike
> procmail, user doesn't need to have a shell account at all.
> 
> I used procmail for a few years and I liked it. Ingo (part of the Horde
> project) does interface with it and is probably the best example I have
> seen of making procmail user friendly. When I migrated to cyrus-imapd,
> sieve was part of the migration and it's simple enough - in fact, not as
> powerful as procmail but it has none of the overhead of procmail either.
> 
> Cyrus - LDAP - virtual users, no shell account whatsoever. Mailstore is
> complete in it's own tree and not spread in user directories. Virtual
> users don't have home directories to maintain. Cyrus scales - with it's
> murder architecture, you can spread the load among servers. Cyrus has
> shared mailboxes, public mailboxes, quotas. Dovecot - for all it's
> features clearly isn't in the same league.
> 
> I have to believe that you have chosen dovecot for your pop/imap server
> because you really aren't familiar with cyrus-imapd (or ldap).
> 
> I guess when I see so many large installations of universities and
> corporations using cyrus-imapd, horde/imp, it seems to be an indication
> of their assessment of the performance, scalability and feature sets
> that some people do want.
> 
> Now if your target is the virtual hosting companies serving 15-30
> domains and 500-3000 users, perhaps these issues are less important.

My feeling is that the choice between LDAP-based mail systems and those
that use Unix accounts is a matter of philosophy, and of what you want
users to be able to do. Pure virtual users are great if you are just
talking about mailboxes, but if you want users to be able to have home
pages and FTP access, then they need to have Unix accounts. Virtualmin
is targeted more towards web hosting than running masses of mailboxes,
so I think that the Unix user approach is the way to go.

That said, it is actually quite flexible - you can opt to use Qmail+LDAP
as a mail server, and it will create mailboxes as LDAP users who do not
necessarily even have to be Unix users. You can then take advantage of
all the features of LDAP and Cyrus, such as clustering, IMAP-based mail
readers and so on..

 - Jamie

Re: [webmin-l] while we're at it (cyrus imapd)

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 14:53 +1000, Jamie Cameron wrote:
> Usermin isn't really the best mail reader to use with cyrus, although that hasn't stopped people from trying :-) It really works best with more traditional mail stores, and has the advantage that it runs with the correct permissions to access all mail files directly.
> 
> It may be better to instead use a web-based mail reader more suited to LDAP, such as squirrelmail..
> 
----
I think I sort of knew this but took a look to see where the current
feature set was when Joe mentioned it on the other thread. So I asked
just in case I was missing something obvious.

Now that I've drank from the cyrus well (quotas, autocreate folders,
autocreate subscriptions, autocreate shared folders, autocreate sieve
scripts, granular acls and seen the performance monster in action), I
could never go back to an mbox type server and have implored all my
customers to make the switch.

I'll just chalk this one up to you can't have it all.

Thanks

Craig


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Re: [webmin-l] while we're at it (cyrus imapd)

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

Usermin isn't really the best mail reader to use with cyrus, although that hasn't stopped people from trying :-) It really works best with more traditional mail stores, and has the advantage that it runs with the correct permissions to access all mail files directly.

It may be better to instead use a web-based mail reader more suited to LDAP, such as squirrelmail..

 - Jamie

-----Original Message-----

From:  Craig White <cra...@az...>
Subj:  [webmin-l] while we're at it (cyrus imapd)
Date:  Fri 16 Sep 2005 2:11 pm
Size:  1K
To:  web...@li...

I cannot conceive of a method with which to configure 'Read User Mail'
module to use cyrus mail folder storage

/var/spool/imap/c
                 /user/craig
                            /subfolder
                            /subfolder
                 /user/charles
                            /subfolder
/var/spool/imap/r
                 /user/root

files are all owned by cyrus:mail (not that it should make a difference)

and IMAP subscriptions/seen/ & cyrus mailboxes db are in another tree
thought this wouldn't matter since you don't do IMAP at all with the
webmail implementation and I'm thinking that it could be havoc to give a
user access around cyrus and the mailboxes db would be none the wiser.

So I spent only a few minutes trying to figure out how to configure the
module, decided that it didn't lend itself to the mbox/maildir and user
home directories slant the module relies upon.

It's not important to me - just wondering if I am missing the blindingly
obvious.

Craig


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Re: [webmin-l] while we're at it (cyrus imapd)

[Daniel P. <da...@ri...>]

Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:

> I cannot conceive of a method with which to configure 'Read User Mail'
> module to use cyrus mail folder storage

You *really* don't want to try and read Cyrus mail through anything
other than the POP or IMAP protocols.  If you do, very nasty things
/will/ eventually happen to your databases, and the system will stop
working correctly.

You *must* use some sort of IMAP (or POP) capable webmail client for
this server, by design.

     Daniel

[webmin-l] while we're at it (cyrus imapd)

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

I cannot conceive of a method with which to configure 'Read User Mail'
module to use cyrus mail folder storage

/var/spool/imap/c
                 /user/craig
                            /subfolder
                            /subfolder
                 /user/charles
                            /subfolder
/var/spool/imap/r
                 /user/root

files are all owned by cyrus:mail (not that it should make a difference)

and IMAP subscriptions/seen/ & cyrus mailboxes db are in another tree
thought this wouldn't matter since you don't do IMAP at all with the
webmail implementation and I'm thinking that it could be havoc to give a
user access around cyrus and the mailboxes db would be none the wiser.

So I spent only a few minutes trying to figure out how to configure the
module, decided that it didn't lend itself to the mbox/maildir and user
home directories slant the module relies upon.

It's not important to me - just wondering if I am missing the blindingly
obvious.

Craig


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Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 17:01 -0500, Joe Cooper wrote:

> 
> > - Better LDAP management/integration
> 
> Currently, the Virtualmin LDAP support is limited to a couple of 
> specific use cases, which cover what we've had people request 
> specifically...but not all LDAP use cases.  In short, users and
groups 
> in LDAP are supported, and QMail+LDAP is supported for mail users and 
> aliases (though I should note that Virtualmin Professional bundles 
> Postfix, and QMail will never be an included package for Virtualmin 
> Professional--so, technically, this use case doesn't apply to
Virtualmin 
> Professional unless you jump through a few hoops to replace Postfix
as 
> the mail server).  We have an open wish in the bug tracker to add 
> support for Postfix+LDAP for aliases and other stuff.  It is likely
it 
> will happen in the next couple-few weeks, as it isn't a huge task and 
> LDAP is popular in some types of mass-hosting environments.
> 
> If anyone has any specific use case examples of using LDAP in a
virtual 
> hosting environment, I'd certainly like to hear about it.  Specifics
are 
> much easier to develop for than generic "more <feature>" goals.
> 
> > - Better Cyrus integration - especially because cyrus-imapd is such
a
> > natural for virtual users/virtual domains
> 
> We won't be supporting Cyrus, I'm afraid, unless there is real 
> widespread customer demand for it.  We've chosen Dovecot as our 
> IMAP/POP3 server.  I know of no compelling reason to support Cyrus
over 
> Dovecot, but I'm willing to be wrong.  I've tried them all, and
Dovecot 
> is a gorgeous example of elegant design applied to a mundane but 
> absolutely necessary task...very fast, zero maintenance, extremely 
> reliable, historically very secure, supports LDAP (and SQL if someone 
> were sick enough to go down that path for mail), and standards 
> compliant.  And it works great for virtual hosting environments with
a 
> lot of flexibility.
> 
> > - Support for Sieve editing by users
> 
> Never touched it, though it sounds nice in theory.  We've got 
> comprehensive Procmail rule editing support--but it is extremely 
> intimidating for normal users (even some PhDs I know are afraid of 
> Procmail).  However, I have a hard time imagining that normal users 
> would find any kind of comprehensive Sieve editing any less
intimidating 
> than the current Procmail interface.  Sieve just doesn't look like a 
> user-level solution for anyone other than you and I and people like
us. 
>   My mom will never use Sieve directly and it would be madness for me
to 
> try to convince her to use it directly.  Since we can put an
easy/safe 
> GUI on either Procmail or Sieve, it's irrelevant to the end user what
we 
> use.  What it comes down to is that direct editing of a text-based
email 
> processing rules language is just not something normal users are
going 
> to do.
> 
> Something a customer suggested that I think would be nice is import
of 
> existing filters from Mozilla or Outlook.  Though, because these
things 
> are stored way deep down in the users home directory and offer no 
> "export" feature, it would be quite ornery to actually walk a user 
> through the process of finding their filter file and uploading it. 
> Maybe we just need to emulate the filter creation model of
Thunderbird 
> and/or Outlook, so that users can create filters in Usermin using an 
> interface they already are familiar with.  Whether it generates Sieve 
> rules or procmail rules is somewhat irrelevant to the user.  I think
in 
> this case, Sieve would be a solution looking for a problem, since we 
> already have a mail rule processor in place for mail that is more 
> powerful (of course, Sieve is less powerful by design--but we can 
> restrict access to the power of procmail as needed, while we can't
make 
> Sieve more powerful as needed).
> 
> In short, I don't see what our non-computer nerd users could possibly 
> gain by having Sieve support.  They definitely need filter
configuration 
> (which is not very easy to use in Usermin currently, I will concede), 
> but what language those rules are written in is wholly a question for 
> the software developer...not the end user.  The end user should never 
> have to see a programming language, even one that is as simple as
Sieve. 
>   For you and me, Sieve would be awesome.  For Virtualmin users, it 
> would be as pointless as the Procmail interface in Usermin currently
is.
> 
> But, again, I'm willing to be wrong.
> 
> > Not that I haven't been able to make good use of webmin but I have
> > pretty much eschewed usermin in favor of Horde 3/IMP 4/Ingo etc.
because
> > it fills the gaps of Sieve/IMAP and a much more robust webmail
> > interface.
> 
> Define "robust"?  What's missing from Usermin's webmail that makes it 
> less appealing to you (other than IMAP and Sieve, if anything)? 
> Whatever it is we'd like to address it.  ;-)
----
I'm going to try to keep this a little more tightly defined as you have
enough on your plate.

Much of my point involves 'real users' vs. 'virtual users' - Those with
a shell and a home directory and those that don't have a shell or a home
directory. The user db being /etc/passwd or sqldb or sasldb or ldap db

Sieve - If you were familiar with Horde/IMP/Ingo in it's current
incarnation, you would understand. It's virtually out of the box set up
so that users can maintain their own filters, set their own vacation
replies, blacklists, whitelists, and 'fileinto' folders. Unlike
procmail, user doesn't need to have a shell account at all.

I used procmail for a few years and I liked it. Ingo (part of the Horde
project) does interface with it and is probably the best example I have
seen of making procmail user friendly. When I migrated to cyrus-imapd,
sieve was part of the migration and it's simple enough - in fact, not as
powerful as procmail but it has none of the overhead of procmail either.

Cyrus - LDAP - virtual users, no shell account whatsoever. Mailstore is
complete in it's own tree and not spread in user directories. Virtual
users don't have home directories to maintain. Cyrus scales - with it's
murder architecture, you can spread the load among servers. Cyrus has
shared mailboxes, public mailboxes, quotas. Dovecot - for all it's
features clearly isn't in the same league.

I have to believe that you have chosen dovecot for your pop/imap server
because you really aren't familiar with cyrus-imapd (or ldap).

I guess when I see so many large installations of universities and
corporations using cyrus-imapd, horde/imp, it seems to be an indication
of their assessment of the performance, scalability and feature sets
that some people do want.

Now if your target is the virtual hosting companies serving 15-30
domains and 500-3000 users, perhaps these issues are less important.

This of course, represents my own limited view and it's clear to me that
you and Jamie have given this a lot of thought and have quite a lot more
experience among you both than I have (by a very large margin). And of
course, you can adapt over time anyway.

Craig

ps - if you would like to see a cyrus/sieve - horde/imp/sieve/(more)
installation, I could create a login account for you at one of my
clients systems.


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Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 18:41 -0700, Barry wrote:
> Joe Cooper wrote:
> 
> > Craig White wrote:
> >
> >> ----
> >> good for you guys - I think that is a logical extension of the
> >> webmin/virtualmin product.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the encouragement!  We felt that way too.  It just became 
> > apparent that it was the best way to answer the needs of commercial 
> > hosting providers, without causing any pain to users of the GPL version.
> >
> > And thanks for all of the good advice.  I'll comment on each bit 
> > inline below.
> 
> 
> Glad this thread is continuing because I was wondering a bit more this 
> morning and hadn't had a chance to followup today.
> 
> I am all for you guys making money, and if this is related to the Open 
> Country announcement then so be it,
> 
> But I wonder how it is justified under the terms of GPL? If the original 
> code is
> GPL, isn;t all derivative code, and and with few exceptions with ways of 
> linking, everything attached to it GPL?
> 
> And doesn't GPL require products that are released to customers, such as 
> professional ISPs to install on their own machines surely will get, 
> isn't it required that code be made available?
> 
> Also, isn't it also the case that GPL requires availability to all when 
> the product (and code) is released, not on a preferential treatment?
> 
> Now, I know you can charge for the reproduction or service of copying 
> the product and code, and you can charge what the market will bear. But 
> the product is still GPL and others can make the same product available 
> at whatever cost they deem appropriate.
> 
> Maybe here is something more I am missing here - I woke up this morning 
> really hoping to find out webmin is actually BSD licensed, in which case 
> you would not need to disclose code and could have proprietary forks. 
> Sadly that doesn;t seem to be the case.
> 
> So I am confused - what's the deal here?
----
you should have at least looked at the license before you commented.
It's not GPL, it's BSD

http://www.webmin.com/intro.html

Furthermore, the sweat and the equity is to those that put it into it
which as far as I know, has to be like at least 98% Jamie if not higher
but only those who contributed code to it are entitled to question it
and I doubt there are many who have earned that right.

Lastly, if Jamie and Joe can prosper by taking their base and even
devote more time and energy, then the code base would have to benefit so
there's no reason to assume that it wouldn't be a winner all around.
Clearly Jamie has the benefit of each and every doubt besides the
gratitude for his generosity this far. If he decided to not develop it
any further, I would presume that it could be forked under BSD
restrictions.

Craig


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[webmin-l] VirtualMin - Postfix

[Eduardo G. <eg...@ag...>]

Hi,

            I need to allow to some virtual domains to add a footer for all
the outgoing emails.

            We use Postfix as MTA. any idea how to do that? 

 

-------------------------

Eduardo Godoy Vega

A&G Consulting

 <mailto:edu...@ag...> edu...@ag...

 <http://www.agc.cl> http://www.agc.cl

 

Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[<ra...@si...>]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Barry wrote:

> Joe Cooper wrote:
>
>> Craig White wrote:
>> 
>>> ----
>>> good for you guys - I think that is a logical extension of the
>>> webmin/virtualmin product.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for the encouragement!  We felt that way too.  It just became 
>> apparent that it was the best way to answer the needs of commercial hosting 
>> providers, without causing any pain to users of the GPL version.
>> 
>> And thanks for all of the good advice.  I'll comment on each bit inline 
>> below.
>
>
> Glad this thread is continuing because I was wondering a bit more this 
> morning and hadn't had a chance to followup today.
>
> I am all for you guys making money, and if this is related to the Open 
> Country announcement then so be it,
>
> But I wonder how it is justified under the terms of GPL? If the original code 
> is
> GPL, isn;t all derivative code, and and with few exceptions with ways of 
> linking, everything attached to it GPL?
>
> And doesn't GPL require products that are released to customers, such as 
> professional ISPs to install on their own machines surely will get, isn't it 
> required that code be made available?
>
> Also, isn't it also the case that GPL requires availability to all when the 
> product (and code) is released, not on a preferential treatment?
>
> Now, I know you can charge for the reproduction or service of copying the 
> product and code, and you can charge what the market will bear. But the 
> product is still GPL and others can make the same product available at 
> whatever cost they deem appropriate.
>
> Maybe here is something more I am missing here - I woke up this morning 
> really hoping to find out webmin is actually BSD licensed, in which case you 
> would not need to disclose code and could have proprietary forks. Sadly that 
> doesn;t seem to be the case.
>
> So I am confused - what's the deal here?
>
> Best,
>
> Barry
>


   The confusion is that Usermin is released under a BSD license.  This is 
a bit different than a GPL (or even Sun's new CDDL).  It does allow it's 
inclusion without causing other included items to become BSD licensed, and 
it also allows inclusion in GPL stuff without becoming GPL.


 	---- Randy

Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Freddie C. <fca...@sd...>]

> Joe Cooper wrote:
>> Craig White wrote:

>>> ----
>>> good for you guys - I think that is a logical extension of the
>>> webmin/virtualmin product.

>> Thanks for the encouragement!  We felt that way too.  It just
>> became apparent that it was the best way to answer the needs of
>> commercial hosting providers, without causing any pain to users of
>> the GPL version.

>> And thanks for all of the good advice.  I'll comment on each bit
>> inline below.

> Glad this thread is continuing because I was wondering a bit more
> this morning and hadn't had a chance to followup today.

> I am all for you guys making money, and if this is related to the
> Open Country announcement then so be it,

> But I wonder how it is justified under the terms of GPL? If the
> original code is GPL, isn;t all derivative code, and and with few
> exceptions with ways of linking, everything attached to it GPL?

They write they code.  The develop the product.  They release the
product.  They choose the license.  There's nothing stopping the
programmers from dual-licensing the product.  You want the features in
VirtualMin Pro, then you get the commercial license (with or without
the source is irrelevant).  Or, you wait a few months/years until
those features hit the GPL'd VirtualMin release.

This is virtually the same config as TrollTech uses for QT, and MySQL
AB uses for MySQL, and that Daniel Baron uses for DansGuardian.

> And doesn't GPL require products that are released to customers, such
> as professional ISPs to install on their own machines surely will get,
> isn't it required that code be made available?

Only if it's released under the GPL.  If it is released under a
different license, this is moot.

Granted, I haven't looked too deeply at the VirtualMin Pro site, so
take the above with a grain of salt.  :)
--=20
Freddie Cash, CCNT CCLP        Helpdesk / Network Support Tech.
School District 73             (250) 377-HELP [377-4357]
fc...@sd...               hel...@sd...

Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Barry <we...@i1...>]

Joe Cooper wrote:

> Craig White wrote:
>
>> ----
>> good for you guys - I think that is a logical extension of the
>> webmin/virtualmin product.
>
>
> Thanks for the encouragement!  We felt that way too.  It just became 
> apparent that it was the best way to answer the needs of commercial 
> hosting providers, without causing any pain to users of the GPL version.
>
> And thanks for all of the good advice.  I'll comment on each bit 
> inline below.


Glad this thread is continuing because I was wondering a bit more this 
morning and hadn't had a chance to followup today.

I am all for you guys making money, and if this is related to the Open 
Country announcement then so be it,

But I wonder how it is justified under the terms of GPL? If the original 
code is
GPL, isn;t all derivative code, and and with few exceptions with ways of 
linking, everything attached to it GPL?

And doesn't GPL require products that are released to customers, such as 
professional ISPs to install on their own machines surely will get, 
isn't it required that code be made available?

Also, isn't it also the case that GPL requires availability to all when 
the product (and code) is released, not on a preferential treatment?

Now, I know you can charge for the reproduction or service of copying 
the product and code, and you can charge what the market will bear. But 
the product is still GPL and others can make the same product available 
at whatever cost they deem appropriate.

Maybe here is something more I am missing here - I woke up this morning 
really hoping to find out webmin is actually BSD licensed, in which case 
you would not need to disclose code and could have proprietary forks. 
Sadly that doesn;t seem to be the case.

So I am confused - what's the deal here?

Best,

Barry

Re: [webmin-l] Permission problems

[Mac <ma...@ay...>]

Thanks Jamie,
That made the WHOLE difference =3D) Everything is working great now!

But I will soon bombard this list with other questions for setting up =20=

my local PHP, Apache and MySQL webserver =3D)

/Mats

On 16 Sep 2005, at 03:53, Jamie Cameron wrote:

> Did you do a full un-install, with the command /etc/webmin/=20
> uninstall.sh
> ? Just delete the /usr/local/webmin* directory will not necessarily
> work.
>
>  - Jamie
>
> On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 10:46, Mac wrote:
>
>> I just throw away the old webmin.1.220 from usr/local and installed
>> the new one. Same problem though =3D(
>>
>> On 16 Sep 2005, at 03:25, Jamie Cameron wrote:
>>
>>
>>> There is a bug in Webmin 1.220 that can cause the startup item
>>> needed to
>>> start it on boot to not be created. The quickest fix is to un-=20
>>> install,
>>> and instead install the 1.226 version from
>>> http://www.webmin.com/devel.html
>>>
>>>  - Jamie
>>>
>>> On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:16, Mac wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I install webmin and every things is working fine. But when I =20
>>>> restart
>>>> the computer the permissions on webmin changes, so I get the =20
>>>> message:
>>>>
>>>> "Safari can=B4t open the page =93http://localhost:10000/=94 because =
it
>>>> could
>>>> not connect to the server =93localhost=94."
>>>>
>>>> To make it work I have to run the command:
>>>>
>>>> "sudo -s /etc/webmin/start"
>>>>
>>>> to make it work again. Next restart it's the same story. Whats =20
>>>> going
>>>> on???
>>>>
>>>> /Mats
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
>>> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
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>>> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very =20=

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>>> li...@li...
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
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>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
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> Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
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Re: [webmin-l] Permission problems

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

Did you do a full un-install, with the command /etc/webmin/uninstall.sh
? Just delete the /usr/local/webmin* directory will not necessarily
work.

 - Jamie

On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 10:46, Mac wrote:
> I just throw away the old webmin.1.220 from usr/local and installed  
> the new one. Same problem though =(
> 
> On 16 Sep 2005, at 03:25, Jamie Cameron wrote:
> 
> > There is a bug in Webmin 1.220 that can cause the startup item  
> > needed to
> > start it on boot to not be created. The quickest fix is to un-install,
> > and instead install the 1.226 version from
> > http://www.webmin.com/devel.html
> >
> >  - Jamie
> >
> > On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:16, Mac wrote:
> >
> >> I install webmin and every things is working fine. But when I restart
> >> the computer the permissions on webmin changes, so I get the message:
> >>
> >> "Safari can´t open the page “http://localhost:10000/” because it  
> >> could
> >> not connect to the server “localhost”."
> >>
> >> To make it work I have to run the command:
> >>
> >> "sudo -s /etc/webmin/start"
> >>
> >> to make it work again. Next restart it's the same story. Whats going
> >> on???
> >>
> >> /Mats
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.  
> > Download
> > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> > Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> > -
> > Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at webadmin- 
> > li...@li...
> > To remove yourself from this list, go to
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
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> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
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> To remove yourself from this list, go to
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Re: [webmin-l] Permission problems

[Mac <ma...@ay...>]

I just throw away the old webmin.1.220 from usr/local and installed =20
the new one. Same problem though =3D(

On 16 Sep 2005, at 03:25, Jamie Cameron wrote:

> There is a bug in Webmin 1.220 that can cause the startup item =20
> needed to
> start it on boot to not be created. The quickest fix is to un-install,
> and instead install the 1.226 version from
> http://www.webmin.com/devel.html
>
>  - Jamie
>
> On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:16, Mac wrote:
>
>> I install webmin and every things is working fine. But when I restart
>> the computer the permissions on webmin changes, so I get the message:
>>
>> "Safari can=B4t open the page =93http://localhost:10000/=94 because =
it =20
>> could
>> not connect to the server =93localhost=94."
>>
>> To make it work I have to run the command:
>>
>> "sudo -s /etc/webmin/start"
>>
>> to make it work again. Next restart it's the same story. Whats going
>> on???
>>
>> /Mats
>>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. =20=

> Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> -
> Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at webadmin-=20
> li...@li...
> To remove yourself from this list, go to
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
>

Re: [webmin-l] Permission problems

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

There is a bug in Webmin 1.220 that can cause the startup item needed to
start it on boot to not be created. The quickest fix is to un-install,
and instead install the 1.226 version from
http://www.webmin.com/devel.html

 - Jamie

On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:16, Mac wrote:
> I install webmin and every things is working fine. But when I restart
> the computer the permissions on webmin changes, so I get the message:
> 
> "Safari can’t open the page “http://localhost:10000/” because it could
> not connect to the server “localhost”."
> 
> To make it work I have to run the command:
> 
> "sudo -s /etc/webmin/start"
> 
> to make it work again. Next restart it's the same story. Whats going
> on???
> 
> /Mats

Re: [webmin-l] It was not a permissiom problem, BUT

[Mac <ma...@ay...>]

Arrgghh!
So how do I get it to startup automatically then? As it does not do  
that now.

On 16 Sep 2005, at 03:07, Mac wrote:

> The problem is that webmin is not in the Library/startupitems
>
> And how can I get it there on my Max OS X 10.4.2 system??
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.  
> Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> -
> Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at webadmin- 
> li...@li...
> To remove yourself from this list, go to
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
>

[webmin-l] It was not a permissiom problem, BUT

[Mac <ma...@ay...>]

The problem is that webmin is not in the Library/startupitems

And how can I get it there on my Max OS X 10.4.2 system??

Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Joe C. <jo...@sw...>]

Craig White wrote:

> ----
> good for you guys - I think that is a logical extension of the
> webmin/virtualmin product.

Thanks for the encouragement!  We felt that way too.  It just became 
apparent that it was the best way to answer the needs of commercial 
hosting providers, without causing any pain to users of the GPL version.

And thanks for all of the good advice.  I'll comment on each bit inline 
below.

> Hosting is not my thing so I haven't played with virtualmin at all in
> any form.
> 
> It does seem to me from my reasonably good familiarity with webmin and
> my minimal familiarity with usermin that:
> 
> - webmail at my last look was very minimal and should support things
> like IMAP folders/IMAP logins

Usermin supports (straight from the Usermin Folders page):

- System folders like Inbox, Drafts and Sent Mail that always exist.
- Folders in in the mail directory that can be created or deleted by 
Usermin.
- Other files or directories that can be managed as folders by Usermin.
- POP3 accounts on other servers that can be treated as folders.
- IMAP accounts on other servers.
- Composite folders, which combine two or more other folders into a 
single list.
- Virtual folders, which contain a selection of mail from others.

Usermin mail rocks.  And with the new theme, it is close to being as 
good looking as any other webmail product on the market--I've got some 
other stuff up my sleeve on the look-and-feel front, too, so webmail is 
going to get a lot nicer to use in the coming months, hopefully without 
losing any of the clean simplicity and flexibility of the current 
interface.  Usermin has been my favorite webmail client for years 
because of its clean and simple design, but I know some folks like the 
flash of Squirrel, Horde, etc. so I'll address that too.  ;-)

> - Better LDAP management/integration

Currently, the Virtualmin LDAP support is limited to a couple of 
specific use cases, which cover what we've had people request 
specifically...but not all LDAP use cases.  In short, users and groups 
in LDAP are supported, and QMail+LDAP is supported for mail users and 
aliases (though I should note that Virtualmin Professional bundles 
Postfix, and QMail will never be an included package for Virtualmin 
Professional--so, technically, this use case doesn't apply to Virtualmin 
Professional unless you jump through a few hoops to replace Postfix as 
the mail server).  We have an open wish in the bug tracker to add 
support for Postfix+LDAP for aliases and other stuff.  It is likely it 
will happen in the next couple-few weeks, as it isn't a huge task and 
LDAP is popular in some types of mass-hosting environments.

If anyone has any specific use case examples of using LDAP in a virtual 
hosting environment, I'd certainly like to hear about it.  Specifics are 
much easier to develop for than generic "more <feature>" goals.

> - Better Cyrus integration - especially because cyrus-imapd is such a
> natural for virtual users/virtual domains

We won't be supporting Cyrus, I'm afraid, unless there is real 
widespread customer demand for it.  We've chosen Dovecot as our 
IMAP/POP3 server.  I know of no compelling reason to support Cyrus over 
Dovecot, but I'm willing to be wrong.  I've tried them all, and Dovecot 
is a gorgeous example of elegant design applied to a mundane but 
absolutely necessary task...very fast, zero maintenance, extremely 
reliable, historically very secure, supports LDAP (and SQL if someone 
were sick enough to go down that path for mail), and standards 
compliant.  And it works great for virtual hosting environments with a 
lot of flexibility.

> - Support for Sieve editing by users

Never touched it, though it sounds nice in theory.  We've got 
comprehensive Procmail rule editing support--but it is extremely 
intimidating for normal users (even some PhDs I know are afraid of 
Procmail).  However, I have a hard time imagining that normal users 
would find any kind of comprehensive Sieve editing any less intimidating 
than the current Procmail interface.  Sieve just doesn't look like a 
user-level solution for anyone other than you and I and people like us. 
  My mom will never use Sieve directly and it would be madness for me to 
try to convince her to use it directly.  Since we can put an easy/safe 
GUI on either Procmail or Sieve, it's irrelevant to the end user what we 
use.  What it comes down to is that direct editing of a text-based email 
processing rules language is just not something normal users are going 
to do.

Something a customer suggested that I think would be nice is import of 
existing filters from Mozilla or Outlook.  Though, because these things 
are stored way deep down in the users home directory and offer no 
"export" feature, it would be quite ornery to actually walk a user 
through the process of finding their filter file and uploading it. 
Maybe we just need to emulate the filter creation model of Thunderbird 
and/or Outlook, so that users can create filters in Usermin using an 
interface they already are familiar with.  Whether it generates Sieve 
rules or procmail rules is somewhat irrelevant to the user.  I think in 
this case, Sieve would be a solution looking for a problem, since we 
already have a mail rule processor in place for mail that is more 
powerful (of course, Sieve is less powerful by design--but we can 
restrict access to the power of procmail as needed, while we can't make 
Sieve more powerful as needed).

In short, I don't see what our non-computer nerd users could possibly 
gain by having Sieve support.  They definitely need filter configuration 
(which is not very easy to use in Usermin currently, I will concede), 
but what language those rules are written in is wholly a question for 
the software developer...not the end user.  The end user should never 
have to see a programming language, even one that is as simple as Sieve. 
  For you and me, Sieve would be awesome.  For Virtualmin users, it 
would be as pointless as the Procmail interface in Usermin currently is.

But, again, I'm willing to be wrong.

> Not that I haven't been able to make good use of webmin but I have
> pretty much eschewed usermin in favor of Horde 3/IMP 4/Ingo etc. because
> it fills the gaps of Sieve/IMAP and a much more robust webmail
> interface.

Define "robust"?  What's missing from Usermin's webmail that makes it 
less appealing to you (other than IMAP and Sieve, if anything)? 
Whatever it is we'd like to address it.  ;-)

I've found that quite a few webmail apps rely on an extra SQL database 
for storage of indexes or other random crud.  I find this to be a very 
fragile design decision...If you're going to use an extra database in a 
project that isn't a database-driven app (i.e. one in which the database 
is core to the functionality), it ought to be an embedded database like 
SQLite or BerkeleyDB...no configuration, no setup, no maintenance. 
Running a mail server simply should not require database maintenance. 
This seems a common and nearly fatal flaw in a lot of webmail 
applications, IMHO, no matter how nice they might look otherwise.

> Just thought I would pass along my comments.

And they are greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

Regards,
Joe

[webmin-l] Permission problems

[Mac <ma...@ay...>]

I install webmin and every things is working fine. But when I restart =20=

the computer the permissions on webmin changes, so I get the message:

"Safari can=92t open the page =93http://localhost:10000/=94 because it =20=

could not connect to the server =93localhost=94."

To make it work I have to run the command:

"sudo -s /etc/webmin/start"

to make it work again. Next restart it's the same story. Whats going =20
on???

/Mats=

Re: [webmin-l] More Virtualmin

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

Ah, I see .. Unfortunately, that kind of setup is not yet supported. However, it may be in future, since it seems quite common.
 
I do have a question though - what is the advantage of using several different IPs for name-based virtual hosting, rather than a single IP?

 - Jamie

-----Original Message-----

From:  "Roger B.A. Klorese" <ro...@qu...>
Subj:  Re: [webmin-l] More Virtualmin
Date:  Thu 15 Sep 2005 3:50 pm
Size:  1K
To:  web...@li...

Jamie Cameron wrote:

>On Sun, 2005-09-11 at 10:58, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
>  
>
>>We do name virtual hosting on multiple interfaces.  I'd like to either:
>>- be able to select the "based on interface" interface, or
>>- choose from a list of NameVirtualHost directives
>>    
>>
>
>This is sort-of possible already. Virtualmin has a special
>always-name-based mode, which you can enable on the Module Config page
>using the 'All Apache virtual servers are name-based?' option.
>
>Once active, it will no longer set up any private IP based virtual
>servers. Instead, everything is name-based, but you can select which IP
>to host each name-based server on.
>  
>


The problem is that we have a mix of name-based and non-name-based, AND 
the name-based are on a few different IP addresses...


-------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is sponsored by:
Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download
it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
-
Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at web...@li...
To remove yourself from this list, go to
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list

Re: [webmin-l] More Virtualmin

[Roger B.A. K. <ro...@qu...>]

Jamie Cameron wrote:

>On Sun, 2005-09-11 at 10:58, Roger B.A. Klorese wrote:
>  
>
>>We do name virtual hosting on multiple interfaces.  I'd like to either:
>>- be able to select the "based on interface" interface, or
>>- choose from a list of NameVirtualHost directives
>>    
>>
>
>This is sort-of possible already. Virtualmin has a special
>always-name-based mode, which you can enable on the Module Config page
>using the 'All Apache virtual servers are name-based?' option.
>
>Once active, it will no longer set up any private IP based virtual
>servers. Instead, everything is name-based, but you can select which IP
>to host each name-based server on.
>  
>


The problem is that we have a mix of name-based and non-name-based, AND 
the name-based are on a few different IP addresses...

Re: [webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Wed, 2005-09-14 at 14:57 -0500, Joe Cooper wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I just wanted to give folks here on the list a quick heads up about a 
> new project that Jamie and I have been working on for a few months.  It 
> is a version of Virtualmin intended for professional hosting 
> environments and is called, shockingly enough, Virtualmin Professional.
> 
> In order to answer the requirements of commercial hosting providers 
> (i.e. reliable support, automated installation and updates, extremely 
> tight security practices, a branded product that is saleable, 
> integration with other tools like billing, and a nice consistent theme 
> or two or three or six), we've founded a new company called Virtualmin, Inc.
> 
> We've released an Early Adopter version for sale on the website (heavily 
> discounted, to reward those who are willing to suffer through being an 
> early adopter) for RHEL, CentOS, and Fedora operating systems.  We plan 
> to wrap up installers for a half dozen more systems over the next few days.
> 
> I can also answer a couple questions that are probably springing into 
> some peoples minds:
> 
> - The GPL version of Virtualmin will continue to exist and be 
> maintained.  In fact, we'll be rolling up a new release in a few days. 
> Virtualmin GPL features will trail the Professional version by some 
> amount, but the GPL version will always get bugfixes and security fixes 
> on the same schedule as the Professional version.  We are not holding 
> Virtualmin GPL users over a barrel to upgrade to the commercial version, 
> we're merely offering an upgraded version with some features and 
> benefits that some folks will find useful.
> 
> - This doesn't effect Webmin or Usermin in any way, and development will 
> continue at the same pace it always has.
> 
> - Plugin Modules will tend to be compatible across both versions, and 
> many of the new features we're planning will be added via plugin modules 
> (most of which will also be free and under a GPL license).
> 
> Anyway, if you're a Virtualmin user (or would like to be but haven't 
> been able to due to lack of the above-mentioned reasons), you might find 
> like to visit us at http://www.virtualmin.com and see if Virtualmin 
> Professional is a good choice for you.
> 
> There are forums, where one can discuss both versions of Virtualmin, 
> along with a lot of new documentation and other stuff...more features to 
> the site are being added all the time.  Feel free to stop by, sign up, 
> and join in.
> 
> If you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me.
> 
> BTW-If you were a Virtualmin Sponsor in the past, and you haven't heard 
> from me personally, please drop me an email.  Other folks who've donated 
> to Virtualmin in the past will also be hearing from me this week.
> 
----
good for you guys - I think that is a logical extension of the
webmin/virtualmin product.

Hosting is not my thing so I haven't played with virtualmin at all in
any form.

It does seem to me from my reasonably good familiarity with webmin and
my minimal familiarity with usermin that:

- webmail at my last look was very minimal and should support things
like IMAP folders/IMAP logins

- Better LDAP management/integration

- Better Cyrus integration - especially because cyrus-imapd is such a
natural for virtual users/virtual domains

- Support for Sieve editing by users

Not that I haven't been able to make good use of webmin but I have
pretty much eschewed usermin in favor of Horde 3/IMP 4/Ingo etc. because
it fills the gaps of Sieve/IMAP and a much more robust webmail
interface.

Just thought I would pass along my comments.

Craig

[webmin-l] Virtualmin Professional

[Joe C. <jo...@sw...>]

Hi all,

I just wanted to give folks here on the list a quick heads up about a 
new project that Jamie and I have been working on for a few months.  It 
is a version of Virtualmin intended for professional hosting 
environments and is called, shockingly enough, Virtualmin Professional.

In order to answer the requirements of commercial hosting providers 
(i.e. reliable support, automated installation and updates, extremely 
tight security practices, a branded product that is saleable, 
integration with other tools like billing, and a nice consistent theme 
or two or three or six), we've founded a new company called Virtualmin, Inc.

We've released an Early Adopter version for sale on the website (heavily 
discounted, to reward those who are willing to suffer through being an 
early adopter) for RHEL, CentOS, and Fedora operating systems.  We plan 
to wrap up installers for a half dozen more systems over the next few days.

I can also answer a couple questions that are probably springing into 
some peoples minds:

- The GPL version of Virtualmin will continue to exist and be 
maintained.  In fact, we'll be rolling up a new release in a few days. 
Virtualmin GPL features will trail the Professional version by some 
amount, but the GPL version will always get bugfixes and security fixes 
on the same schedule as the Professional version.  We are not holding 
Virtualmin GPL users over a barrel to upgrade to the commercial version, 
we're merely offering an upgraded version with some features and 
benefits that some folks will find useful.

- This doesn't effect Webmin or Usermin in any way, and development will 
continue at the same pace it always has.

- Plugin Modules will tend to be compatible across both versions, and 
many of the new features we're planning will be added via plugin modules 
(most of which will also be free and under a GPL license).

Anyway, if you're a Virtualmin user (or would like to be but haven't 
been able to due to lack of the above-mentioned reasons), you might find 
like to visit us at http://www.virtualmin.com and see if Virtualmin 
Professional is a good choice for you.

There are forums, where one can discuss both versions of Virtualmin, 
along with a lot of new documentation and other stuff...more features to 
the site are being added all the time.  Feel free to stop by, sign up, 
and join in.

If you have any questions or comments please feel free to contact me.

BTW-If you were a Virtualmin Sponsor in the past, and you haven't heard 
from me personally, please drop me an email.  Other folks who've donated 
to Virtualmin in the past will also be hearing from me this week.

Thanks for reading!

Regards,
Joe

Re: [webmin-l] Authenticate to webmin with LDAP

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Wed, 2005-09-14 at 14:32 +0200, Ben...@fu...
wrote:
> Hello List,
> I am trying to configure webmin to allow users from our LDAP to login
> with their LDAP username and password.
> I´ve installed Authen_pam and activated "Use PAM for Unix
> authentication" in the Authentication Module.
> I created a new User with Password set on Unix Auth and put him into a
> new group with access to some Modules.
> If I try to log on without full PAM conversation the user can log in
> with any password he wants (but empty password does not work)
> With full PAM conversation the user cant log in anyway.
> Has anyone a working webmin authentication with LDAP?
>  
> Tahnks in advance
> Benny
>  
> here´s the webmin pam:
>  
> #%PAM-1.0
> auth       sufficient pam_unix.so
> auth       sufficient  pam_ldap.so use_first_pass
> account    sufficient pam_unix.so
> account    sufficient   pam_ldap.so
> session    required   pam_unix.so
> session    required  pam_ldap.so
> password   required   pam_unix.so nullok obscure min=4 max=8 md5
> password   required   pam_ldap.so nullok obscure min=4 max=8 md5
> 
> and here´s the miniserv.conf
> 
> port=20000
> addtype_cgi=internal/cgi
> realm=Webmin Server
> logfile=/var/webmin/miniserv.log
> errorlog=/var/webmin/miniserv.error
> pidfile=/var/webmin/miniserv.pid
> logtime=168
> ppath=
> ssl=1
> env_WEBMIN_CONFIG=/etc/webmin
> env_WEBMIN_VAR=/var/webmin
> atboot=1
> logout=/etc/webmin/logout-flag
> listen=20000
> denyfile=\.pl$
> log=1
> blockhost_failures=5
> blockhost_time=300
> syslog=1
> session=1
> userfile=/etc/webmin/miniserv.users
> keyfile=/etc/webmin/miniserv.pem
> passwd_file=/etc/shadow
> passwd_uindex=0
> passwd_pindex=1
> passwd_cindex=2
> passwd_mindex=4
> passwd_mode=0
> preroot=mscstyle3
> passdelay=1
> pam=webmin
> logouttime=
> root=/usr/libexec/webmin
> mimetypes=/usr/libexec/webmin/mime.types
> bind=xx.xx.xx.xx
> sockets=
> unixauth=user
> pam_conv=1
> no_pam=0
----
I must have been really lucky since I just told webmin to use unix
authentication since my /etc/pam.d/sys-auth is configured to use ldap to
authenticate it just works. I have no webmin module in pam.d

# cat /etc/webmin/miniserv.conf
port=8000
addtype_cgi=internal/cgi
realm=Webmin Server
logfile=/var/webmin/miniserv.log
errorlog=/var/webmin/miniserv.error
pidfile=/var/webmin/miniserv.pid
logtime=168
ppath=
ssl=1
env_WEBMIN_CONFIG=/etc/webmin
env_WEBMIN_VAR=/var/webmin
atboot=1
logout=/etc/webmin/logout-flag
listen=10000
denyfile=\.pl$
log=1
blockhost_failures=5
blockhost_time=60
syslog=1
session=1
userfile=/etc/webmin/miniserv.users
keyfile=/etc/webmin/miniserv.pem
passwd_file=/etc/shadow
passwd_uindex=0
passwd_pindex=1
passwd_cindex=2
passwd_mindex=4
passwd_mode=0
preroot=mscstyle3
ssl_redirect=1
logclear=
logclf=
loghost=
passdelay=1
root=/opt/webmin-1.200
mimetypes=/opt/webmin-1.200/mime.types

Craig