scribia-developers — Discussion of Scribia development.

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

On 2/17/01 9:40 AM, "Lark" <lar...@ya...> wrote:

> on 2/16/01 5:04 PM, Cygnus at cy...@po... wrote:
>> Once a trainer starts bowing to you, he'll always bow to you when you talk
>> to him.  They also bow at all message levels after the initial bow message
>> ("commendable") until you reach the bow deeply message.    Then they'll
>> always bow deeply after that.
> 
> Thanks for the info, Cygnus! Could you please email the exact log message of
> a "bows deeply" line?
> 
> Thanks,
> Lark

Here it is:

2/18/01 1:06:41a Swengus bows deeply.
2/18/01 1:06:45a Swengus says, "It is always good to greet a respected
colleague."


Cygnus
cy...@po...

_________________________________________________________________
Oh the words that he spoke
Seemed the wisest of philosophies
There's nothing ever gained
By a wet thing called a tear
When the world is too dark
And I need the light inside of me
I'll walk into a bar
And drink fifteen pints of beer                 -   Shane MacGowen

[Scribia-dev] Keep your fingers crossed!

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

I've emailed with Max Horn ("fingolfin"), and he got one of the new SF staff
people ("moonman") to reopen my support request regarding CVS pserver:

http://sourceforge.net/support/index.php?func=detailsupport&support_id=11345
3&group_id=1

I've added a followup requesting psrver access for all of you - maybe we're
lucky this time. "Moonman" is competent, according to Max Horn.
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

> Once a trainer starts bowing to you, he'll always bow to you when you talk to
> him.  They also bow at all message levels after the initial bow message
> ("commendable") until you reach the bow deeply message.    Then they'll always
> bow deeply after that.

Update to the scanner:

Find trainer evaluation even when trainers are bowing. "Deeply" bowing
hasn't been tested, since I don't have an exact log message for that, it may
just work already.

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Idear

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

on 2/16/01 9:03 PM, Ben Hines at bh...@sa... wrote:

> Perhaps (as a pref.. or default) we could move "Scanned" logs into a
> different folder, after they are scanned?
> 
> In that way the user could simply scan the log folder and not have to
> worry about selecting only the most recent log, or moving "scanned"
> files around.

Scribus keeps the timestamp of the last seen message after each scan, and
warns you if you're later trying to scan logs that are earlier than that
timestamp. It'd be easy to add something like that as well.

Both approaches together would work nicely also.
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

on 2/16/01 5:04 PM, Cygnus at cy...@po... wrote:
> Once a trainer starts bowing to you, he'll always bow to you when you talk
> to him.  They also bow at all message levels after the initial bow message
> ("commendable") until you reach the bow deeply message.    Then they'll
> always bow deeply after that.

Thanks for the info, Cygnus! Could you please email the exact log message of
a "bows deeply" line?

Thanks,
Lark
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] Idear

[Ben H. <bh...@sa...>]

Perhaps (as a pref.. or default) we could move "Scanned" logs into a 
different folder, after they are scanned?

In that way the user could simply scan the log folder and not have to 
worry about selecting only the most recent log, or moving "scanned" 
files around.

This will really only matter after we start recording character data 
in the data files.

-Ben
-- 
<http://tunnels.tripod.com/>    - My Old-As-Hell Home Page
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My newish Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

On 2/15/01 7:48 AM, "Ben Hines" <bh...@sa...> wrote:

> Hmm.. Arent the messages where trainers bow all different? I mean, i
> thought it was like this:
> 
> 0-9:       You have much to learn.
> 10-19:     It is good to see you.
> 20-29:     Your persistence is paying off.
> 30-39:     You are progressing well.
> 40-49:     You are one of my good pupils.
> 50-99:     You are one of my better pupils.
> 100-149:   You keep my on my toes.
> 150-199:   It is hard to find more to teach you.
> 200-249:   Teaching you is a challenge.
> 250-299:   There is not much more I can teach you.
> 300-349:   Teaching you has taught me much.
> 350-399:   You have attained tremendous skill.
> 400-449:   We are nearly equals.
> 450-499:   You may be proud of your accomplishment.
> 500-549:   You are becoming a master of our art.
> 550-599: (bows.) Your dedication is commendable.
> 600-649:   You show great devotion to your studies.
> 650-699:   You are a credit to our craft.
> 700-749:   Few indeed are your peers.
> 750-799: (bows deeply.) Your devotion to the craft is exemplary.
> 800-899:   It is always good to greet a respected colleague.
> 900-999:   You are truly a grand master.
> 
> So, we know when they are going to bow: it goes with the messages. Is
> there more
> to it? Dont they always bow if you get "commendable", etc?

Once a trainer starts bowing to you, he'll always bow to you when you talk
to him.  They also bow at all message levels after the initial bow message
("commendable") until you reach the bow deeply message.    Then they'll
always bow deeply after that.


Cygnus
cy...@po...

_________________________________________________________________
Oh the words that he spoke
Seemed the wisest of philosophies
There's nothing ever gained
By a wet thing called a tear
When the world is too dark
And I need the light inside of me
I'll walk into a bar
And drink fifteen pints of beer                 -   Shane MacGowen

Re: [Scribia-dev] Interface Improvements

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

On 2/16/01 2:15 AM, "Ben Hines" <bh...@sa...> wrote:

> However, there is a problem in the other case - that of a log being
> started without a logged-in message, we cannot tell whos data it is
> supposed to be.
> This case is more difficult to solve, but perhaps we could display
> the log and ask the user which character it is for?
> 

Prompting the user would probably be a good idea.  When prompting, it would
be nice as a user to be notified of the last char scanned.  Its most likely
the same one.  I believe that the only time it doesn't give the full log in
message is when you log back in before the character has left the lands.  So
you can't have a log from another character unless you're running multiple
accounts.  


Cygnus
cy...@po...

_________________________________________________________________
Oh the words that he spoke
Seemed the wisest of philosophies
There's nothing ever gained
By a wet thing called a tear
When the world is too dark
And I need the light inside of me
I'll walk into a bar
And drink fifteen pints of beer                 -   Shane MacGowen

Re: [Scribia-dev] Interface Improvements

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

on 2/16/01 1:15 AM, Ben Hines at bh...@sa... wrote:

> Changes 2/15/01

Committed, thanks!
 
> Comments:
> It is possible to have logs with multiple chars in them, but scribia
> reads stuff from the sections for the other character.
> If we see a "logged on" message for a different character, Scribia
> should ignore the next area of the log until we get a "logged on"
> message for the character we are scanning for.  Currently if you scan
> for "Aldernon" in an "Elenis Reyav" log, you get erroneous data. This
> case we can solve.
> 
> However, there is a problem in the other case - that of a log being
> started without a logged-in message, we cannot tell whos data it is
> supposed to be.
> This case is more difficult to solve, but perhaps we could display
> the log and ask the user which character it is for?

Yes, both are needed.

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] Interface Improvements

[Ben H. <bh...@sa...>]

Changes 2/15/01

CScribiaApp.h
CScribiaApp.cp

- Implemented character list
- Bug: if you have a row selected and you "add character", the 
selection is not updated. Also the selection is not updated if you 
scroll away from it.
- implemented data files, characters folder.
- Moved ask char dialog here.
- Implemented multiple ("All") char scanning on folder and file. 
However, this does not work right.

Comments:
It is possible to have logs with multiple chars in them, but scribia 
reads stuff from the sections for the other character.
If we see a "logged on" message for a different character, Scribia 
should ignore the next area of the log until we get a "logged on" 
message for the character we are scanning for.  Currently if you scan 
for "Aldernon" in an "Elenis Reyav" log, you get erroneous data. This 
case we can solve.

However, there is a problem in the other case - that of a log being 
started without a logged-in message, we cannot tell whos data it is 
supposed to be.
This case is more difficult to solve, but perhaps we could display 
the log and ask the user which character it is for?

CScribiaDoc.cp

- removed ask char dialog

CCharTable.h
CCharTable.cp

- new files added to project for main char list

CScribiaDocumentWindow.cp

- put char name in window


CScribiaResources.ppob

- Added character list, fixed bug in buttons
-- 
<http://tunnels.tripod.com/>    - My Old-As-Hell Home Page
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My newish Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Ben H. <bh...@sa...>]

At 7:29 PM -0800 2/14/01, Lark wrote:
>on 2/14/01 6:21 PM, Cygnus at cy...@po... wrote:
>>  And bad news.  They not only stay bowing as you progress, at on point (I
>>  think its about 700 or 750 ranks) the bow switches to "Bows Deeply".
>>  Haven't found anything after that yet.  There could be more changes further
>>  up the ladder.
>
>Hm. It should be possible to deal with the bowing *if* all the trainer
>messages are on adjacent lines, as a special case. You'll just have to find
>a quiet moment to talk to a trainer, so Scribia recognizes it. I'll see what
>I can do.


Hmm.. Arent the messages where trainers bow all different? I mean, i 
thought it was like this:

0-9:       You have much to learn.
10-19:     It is good to see you.
20-29:     Your persistence is paying off.
30-39:     You are progressing well.
40-49:     You are one of my good pupils.
50-99:     You are one of my better pupils.
100-149:   You keep my on my toes.
150-199:   It is hard to find more to teach you.
200-249:   Teaching you is a challenge.
250-299:   There is not much more I can teach you.
300-349:   Teaching you has taught me much.
350-399:   You have attained tremendous skill.
400-449:   We are nearly equals.
450-499:   You may be proud of your accomplishment.
500-549:   You are becoming a master of our art.
550-599: (bows.) Your dedication is commendable.
600-649:   You show great devotion to your studies.
650-699:   You are a credit to our craft.
700-749:   Few indeed are your peers.
750-799: (bows deeply.) Your devotion to the craft is exemplary.
800-899:   It is always good to greet a respected colleague.
900-999:   You are truly a grand master.

So, we know when they are going to bow: it goes with the messages. Is 
there more
to it? Dont they always bow if you get "commendable", etc?

Anyway, even if they do bow, randomly, i think we can track it:

We do have access to C++ variables and such...

Why will this not work:

1. Record the line number of all messages which can possibly have 
bows after them in a global.

2. If we find a bow (TRAINERNAME + bows. or bows deeply), within a 
reasonable number of lines from a "bow-possible" instance, look up 
what the last "bow-possible" message was, and there you have it.

This can break, though, if the exile names Eva happens to bow to you 
shortly after you talk to a trainer who might be bowing. But that's a 
very special case.

-Ben
-- 
<http://tunnels.tripod.com/>    - My Old-As-Hell Home Page
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My newish Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

on 2/14/01 6:21 PM, Cygnus at cy...@po... wrote:
> And bad news.  They not only stay bowing as you progress, at on point (I
> think its about 700 or 750 ranks) the bow switches to "Bows Deeply".
> Haven't found anything after that yet.  There could be more changes further
> up the ladder.

Hm. It should be possible to deal with the bowing *if* all the trainer
messages are on adjacent lines, as a special case. You'll just have to find
a quiet moment to talk to a trainer, so Scribia recognizes it. I'll see what
I can do.
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

On 2/14/01 9:43 AM, "Lark" <lar...@ya...> wrote:

> Oh, small bug that isn't easy to get around: When trainers start bowing to
> you, the evaluation won't be recorded anymore, since it's then spread out
> over multiple - possibly not adjacent - log lines. I just started to have
> one trainer bow to me, I'm not sure if they continue to do that as I
> progress, which would suck. Anyone know?

That sucks that it can't scan after a trainer bows.  Since I have multiple
trainers bowing, it'd be nice to have. =)

And bad news.  They not only stay bowing as you progress, at on point (I
think its about 700 or 750 ranks) the bow switches to "Bows Deeply".
Haven't found anything after that yet.  There could be more changes further
up the ladder.

Cygnus
cy...@po...

_________________________________________________________________
Oh the words that he spoke
Seemed the wisest of philosophies
There's nothing ever gained
By a wet thing called a tear
When the world is too dark
And I need the light inside of me
I'll walk into a bar
And drink fifteen pints of beer                 -   Shane MacGowen

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

on 2/14/01 12:08 AM, Cygnus at cy...@po... wrote:
>>   - blood blade (is there a message?)
> 
> Do you need the training message or the untrain with the blood?

Both if there are two. Also, I'd need to know if untraining works like for
the other blades, i.e. a rank for a rank or not.

> Not really something to count, more of just recording.  Since the message a
> trainer says to you is now recorded, how about keeping a list of the date
> you got each message change and the number of ranks you had in that trainer?
> It wont be completely accurate for when you got the change unless you check
> messages after every rank.  But it'll give a general idea and you can see
> your training trends.

Good idea. I already keep the time of the last evaluation internally (so I
know which one is most current in case of untraining, also saves me from
needing to know each one). Keeping a list should be easy to add. (Also for
other things, it'd be interesting to have X-over-time graphs for many things
- coins, ranks, etc.)

That said, I'll probably hold off on that at least until we have a working
beta with a usable interface :-) I' rather give people something quickly
that replaces Scribus well, before adding too many new things.

Oh, small bug that isn't easy to get around: When trainers start bowing to
you, the evaluation won't be recorded anymore, since it's then spread out
over multiple - possibly not adjacent - log lines. I just started to have
one trainer bow to me, I'm not sure if they continue to do that as I
progress, which would suck. Anyone know?

Another thing: I've added profiling to the debug target, but when I look at
the output file in the profiler, it doesn't seem to make a whole lot of
sense (i.e. there are things clearly missing that are being called, and
there is some random garbage being displayed.) Someone who knows MW
Profiler, please take a look at the calls in main().

Thanks,
Lark
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

On 2/14/01 12:31 AM, "Lark" <lar...@ya...> wrote:

> I'm still missing some things for the scanner to be complete, maybe some of
> you have log messages for the following:
> 
>   - Sensei Ja'chan replacement (Bracis?)
>   - Brewer trainer

I think fette trained the brewer some.  I'll ask when I see her tomorrow
night.


>   - blood blade (is there a message?)

Do you need the training message or the untrain with the blood?



>   - suggestions?

Not really something to count, more of just recording.  Since the message a
trainer says to you is now recorded, how about keeping a list of the date
you got each message change and the number of ranks you had in that trainer?
It wont be completely accurate for when you got the change unless you check
messages after every rank.  But it'll give a general idea and you can see
your training trends.



Cygnus
cy...@po...

_________________________________________________________________
Oh the words that he spoke
Seemed the wisest of philosophies
There's nothing ever gained
By a wet thing called a tear
When the world is too dark
And I need the light inside of me
I'll walk into a bar
And drink fifteen pints of beer                 -   Shane MacGowen

[Scribia-dev] Things to count

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

I'm still missing some things for the scanner to be complete, maybe some of
you have log messages for the following:

    - Sensei Ja'chan replacement (Bracis?)
    - Brewer trainer
    - Tailor trainer
    - untraining with a gossamer blade
    - blood blade (is there a message?)

All other trainers are recognized, as far as I know - but I may miss some
newer fighter/mystic ones, since I can't train those myself.

Other things that may be countable:
    
    - bounties (need to wait for log messages to be put in)
    - court sentences (I have never been sued :-)
    - suggestions?
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] slowness

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

on 2/12/01 12:36 AM, Ben Hines at bh...@sa... wrote:

> I noticed that lark had a note in the source about having a slow mac.

My problem is that my Mac starts thrashing during compilation of the scanner
and CScribiaDoc.cp when I have inlining on (in the "Final" target.)
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] Update

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

Added black magic to enable per-exile karma stats. (We remember all exiles
we've ever seen in mExile, and do some funky matching on the karma log
line.) This makes the scanner a lot slower, unfortunately.

Slowness might be due to the new matching, or because mExile now has many
more elements. Hm.

Maybe there's a better way, but I'm too tired now. Anyway, happy scanning.
:-)
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] slowness

[Ben H. <bh...@sa...>]

I noticed that lark had a note in the source about having a slow mac.

My mac is also slow. To help this i commented out the debug menu 
attachment in CScribiaApp.cp, line 190. Its not really needed unless 
you are having problems with your command/view/visual PP structure, 
especially now that Throw and Signal are working..  :) Getting rid of 
it speeds up scribia a LOT on launch and makes debugging the lexer 
much quicker.

-Ben
-- 
<http://tunnels.tripod.com/>    - My Old-As-Hell Home Page
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My newish Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] Karma

[Ben H. <bh...@sa...>]

At 7:26 PM -0800 2/11/01, Lark wrote:
>on 2/11/01 7:17 PM, Ben Hines at bh...@sa... wrote:
>>  That log from 12/19/99 is pretty old! :) I do believe this was a
>>  change made sometime in the past year. Given and recieved karma
>>  always have commas now. I just tested it.
>>
>>  2/11/01 7:14:32p You gave good karma to Achates, test
>>  2/11/01 7:14:51p You just received good karma from Achates, :)
>
>Oh sorry. I'll change it so it counts the ones with commas. Um. Which may
>also be ambiguous, if an old-style explanation has a comma in it... I'm not
>sure what to do, really.


Well, there is a maximum exile name length. So you can cut off the 
exile name parser at that point if you dont find a comma, and give up 
(i forget how many characters it is). That might break if you get 
thanked by a GM-thing, like "Angry mother sasquatch", but thats not 
that big of a deal.

also, there is the CL_Players file, which has every name the exile 
has seen since approx 9/1/99. We might be able to use that somehow, 
the format is fairly simple.

-Ben
-- 
<http://tunnels.tripod.com/>    - My Old-As-Hell Home Page
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My newish Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] Karma

[Ben H. <bh...@sa...>]

Oops, that last line was a typo. Both given and recieved lines have commas.

You should be able to re-enable the karma rules in Scribia.l.

-Ben

At 7:17 PM -0800 2/11/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>
>On the other hand, you are right that GIVEN karma lines have nothing 
>after the exile name.
>
>-Ben
>--
><http://tunnels.tripod.com/>    - My Old-As-Hell Home Page
><http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My newish Genealogy Pages
>
>_______________________________________________
>Scribia-developers mailing list
>Scr...@li...
>http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scribia-developers

-- 
<http://tunnels.tripod.com/>    - My Old-As-Hell Home Page
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My newish Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] Karma

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

on 2/11/01 7:17 PM, Ben Hines at bh...@sa... wrote:
> That log from 12/19/99 is pretty old! :) I do believe this was a
> change made sometime in the past year. Given and recieved karma
> always have commas now. I just tested it.
> 
> 2/11/01 7:14:32p You gave good karma to Achates, test
> 2/11/01 7:14:51p You just received good karma from Achates, :)

Oh sorry. I'll change it so it counts the ones with commas. Um. Which may
also be ambiguous, if an old-style explanation has a comma in it... I'm not
sure what to do, really.
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] Karma

[Ben H. <bh...@sa...>]

At 6:11 PM -0800 2/11/01, Lark wrote:
>on 2/11/01 5:21 PM, Ben Hines at bh...@sa... wrote:
>>  Yeah, i focused on the "recieved" ones, which always have commas.
>
>>>  12/19/99 10:31:11p You just received good karma from Flex perhaps in a
>>>  couple of days, Stine will give you a new location to search?
>
>No they don't?
>--
>Lark <lar...@ya...>

That log from 12/19/99 is pretty old! :) I do believe this was a 
change made sometime in the past year. Given and recieved karma 
always have commas now. I just tested it.

2/11/01 7:14:32p You gave good karma to Achates, test
2/11/01 7:14:51p You just received good karma from Achates, :)

Elenis also sent me several extensive logs, and they all have commas:
(I generally havent been keeping my own logs)

1/29/01 10:28:56p You just received good karma from Achates, sorry 
bro have voices in head
1/29/01 11:17:54p You just received good karma from Mac, Aki lies 
about alot of things...
1/29/01 12:42:29p You just received good karma from Defiant, you there?
1/29/01 1:14:58p You just received good karma from Defiant, can I 
push you to brick bears for me?

On the other hand, you are right that GIVEN karma lines have nothing 
after the exile name.

-Ben
-- 
<http://tunnels.tripod.com/>    - My Old-As-Hell Home Page
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My newish Genealogy Pages

[Scribia-dev] Update

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

I've committed a few changes:
    - keeping track of latest trainer evaluation (e.g. "you have much
      to learn")
    - Bones added chains-per-exile stats
    - Bones added karma-per-exile stats (I've changed the rule somewhat,
      and left it disabled; there doesn't seem to be a good way to figure
      out where the giver/recipient name ends and where the explanation
      begins - or I'm having a brain freeze)

I had to rewrite most of the rules that suppress exile-generated log lines
(e.g., talks, actions, narrates) to support the trainer evaluation scanning.
Last time I touched them, I screwed up. Please double-check on your logs, on
mine it seems to work...
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] FW: [Bug #131593] Please rethink CVS/SSH strategy

[Charles L. <da...@sy...>]

>> quite frankly, i find the Sourceforge support staff much more annoying that
>> not having write access to the tree. even if i were to get pserver access,
>> i'd still consider moving to another site for development. :)
>
>Do you wanna know what their answer was this time (item closed of course):
>
>*drumroll*
>
>"I thought you could dual boot Linux on the Mac."

obviously these people are building a development site on linux, for linux.
they care little for other platforms.


--

charles lechasseur - da...@sy...
http://www3.sympatico.ca/danov/marathon/

  "The butts of evil are awaiting my bootprints!"
     - Minsc