scribia-developers — Discussion of Scribia development.

[Scribia-dev] re: how hard would this be?

[<alc...@cl...>]

Hi again -

I found this:

in the clanlord applescript dictionary it offers:

Do Script: Send a text command to the Clan Lord game.
	Do Script  string  -- The command to send

So I was thinking if I could create a small app that I would use for 
running characters... It would be the foreground application but not 
clutter the screen

I could still get my visual from the CL client, even though it's in 
the background

This applescript thingy would watch my mouse and send "/move west 
run" or whatever based on where I moved my mouse (on change). It 
would send these applescript commands to both clients I had running.

To talk or do anything else I would bring the appropriate client to 
the foreground

Would this work? it sounds better than using crazy glue to connect 
two mice and use two imacs...or becoming ambidextrous.

Alchemist

Re: [Scribia-dev] lotsa changes

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

[Resend, don't think the mail made it yesterday.]

At 10:10 PM -0800 3/28/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>thats it....

Wow! Looks great. I really like the changes!

Some little nits:
	- the background of table text is white, while the table is platinum
	- the debug view has no data in it
	- the grey square (top left corner) is for the char icon?
	- maybe it'd look better to make the data tables in the different
	  panes all the same width (pane width), and display additional data
	  (e.g. ruined furs) on top of the pane (i.e. move that table down)?
	- it might look better to use fonts more consistently, maybe use the
	  ones from the Appearance panel?

>By the way, did someone already register Scribia's creator code? I 
>note that it is already taken (SCRI):

I have, it's ours :-)

Application Signatures:
SCRI  (Hex) 53435249
Scri  (Hex) 53637269

>Also: should i make separate views for Karma, Chaining, Boosts and 
>such, or should i just combine those 3 things into one table? (after 
>all, the user can "Sort" by whichever column he wants). We could put 
>them in the "Other" view, perhaps.

One view should be fine, it's less work, too :-)

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] Ouch.

[Charles L. <da...@sy...>]

it seems that some old forgotten god doesn't want the Scribia developers to
be able to work. :-)

i've tried installing OS X on my beige G3. when i switched the boot
partition to the OS X partition in Startup Disk, the mac refused to boot. at
all. Options, C, zapping the PRAM... nothing works. (i've even removed the
battery and reset the board. no luck.)

i had begun working on printing, and hopefully my HD is still intact so my
code is not lost, simply unavailable... i'll try to get my mac fixed as soon
as possible. in the meantime, have fun with Clan Lord without me... :-(

[Scribia-dev] How hard would this be?

[<alc...@cl...>]

(reply or CC to me at alc...@cl... - I am not on the 
scribia-developers list if it auto-replies to the list)

I just got a cool idea, and I'm wondering how hard it would be.

When the CL client is running it receives and sends data packets.

My idea has to do with the outbound info, and it might even be 
applescriptable or something.

Sometimes a player runs 2 copies of the CL client at once. Like Rkda 
and Kard sometimes go on a hunt together, one controller, 2 clients 
running. I do this sometimes too.

How hard would it be to have everything sent by one client mirrored 
and also sent by the other client as well?

That way it would be easier to have 2 char's run with a group, or run 
away from danger. You would be watching both characters from one of 
the character's perspective, so you have to get good at not letting 
them get out of each other's view, especially at snell crossings and 
such.

Perhaps you could hit esc or shift or something to break and 
re-establish the echoing, so that you could keep you characters 
together more easily.

An even lower-tech solution would be to make a patch to one of the 
copies of the client so that it does not stop tracking mouse movement 
when it is in the background. That way the patched client will echo 
mouse movement only, and both characters won't be speaking 
simultaneously etc.

any thoughts on this?

how hard would it be and what approach would you take to do something 
like this, if anyone has an interest?

Alchemist

Re: [Scribia-dev] lotsa changes

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

At 10:10 PM -0800 3/28/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>thats it....

Wow! Looks great. I really like the changes!

Some little nits:
	- the background of table text is white, while the table is platinum
	- the debug view has no data in it
	- the grey square (top left corner) is for the char icon?
	- maybe it'd look better to make the data tables in the different
	  panes all the same width (pane width), and display additional data
	  (e.g. ruined furs) on top of the pane (i.e. move that table down)?
	- it might look better to use fonts more consistently, maybe use the
	  ones from the Appearance panel?

>By the way, did someone already register Scribia's creator code? I 
>note that it is already taken (SCRI):

I have, it's ours :-)

Application Signatures:
SCRI  (Hex) 53435249
Scri  (Hex) 53637269

>Also: should i make separate views for Karma, Chaining, Boosts and 
>such, or should i just combine those 3 things into one table? (after 
>all, the user can "Sort" by whichever column he wants). We could put 
>them in the "Other" view, perhaps.

One view should be fine, it's less work, too :-)



-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] lotsa changes

[Ben H. <bh...@al...>]

Scribia.l
- Add Diggin (pf trainer) and Sartorio (tailor trainer)

ScribiaResources.ppob
- Use tabbed view for documents instead of popup
- Added debug view and cosmetic enhancements to all views

ScribiaResources.rsrc
- Added MacOS file resources - FREF, BNDL, SCRI, kind, open
- Added icons for app and documents
- Added tab# resource for the tabbed document window

CScribiaApp.h
CScribiaApp.cp
- Add PP document functionality
- App listens to the CharTable and responds to doubleclicks
- Moved scanning buttons to document

CScribiaDocumentWindow.h
CScribiaDocumentWindow.cp
- Save the last document scanned and repopulate views based on checkbox
- Commented out resizing, window permanently large

CScribiaDoc.h
CScribiaDoc.cp
- Enable PP document/file (save, open) funtionality
- File scanning takes place in document. Doc is scanned, added to 
main doc and saved.
- Added feature to add custom exile picture to the document (BUG: its 
added, but it doesnt display)
- Debug output is put in a pane in the window (BUG: its only updated 
when you first open the doc)

CCharTable.h
CCharTable.cp
- Added accessor for FSSpecs

CMapTable.h
CMapTable.cp
CTrainingTable.h
CTrainingTable.cp
- Renamed SetupTableForData to BuildTable

CItemsView.h
CItemsView.cp
CKillsView.h
CKillsView.cp
CMoneyView.h
CMoneyView.cp
CFallsView.h
CFallsView.cp
CTrainingView.h
CTrainingView.cp
CSharesView.h
CSharesView.cp
- Remember sort order when window is repopulated

thats it....

Things i could use help with/havent done/feel free to fix for me:

1. Look for leaks. Run spotlight, zoneranger.

2. Make everything const (functions - return types - parameters - 
etc) that can and should be const.


By the way, did someone already register Scribia's creator code? I 
note that it is already taken (SCRI):

http://developer.apple.com/dev/cftype/find.html

If its someone elses we can make it sCRI or something.

Also: should i make separate views for Karma, Chaining, Boosts and 
such, or should i just combine those 3 things into one table? (after 
all, the user can "Sort" by whichever column he wants). We could put 
them in the "Other" view, perhaps.

-Ben
-- 
NOTE: Please change my address in your address book from bh...@sa...
to bh...@al... as my UCSD address will be permanent.
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] Home Page

[Cygnus <cy...@po...>]

On 3/28/01 9:18 AM, "Lark" <lar...@ya...> wrote:

> At 3:49 AM -0800 3/25/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>> Howdy folks. Any spiffy HTML coders out there who want to help? I
>> think we could use a "user-level" web page to put at:
>> 
>> http://scribia.sourceforge.net/
>> 
>> unless Lark wishes to put it somewhere else.
> 
> No, that's where it's supposed to go :-) Anything to improve that web
> site is fine with me. If someone wants to start working on it, I'll
> let him/her know how to FTP things onto the web server.
> 
>> I prefer giving out that URL to the longer one, and we could
>> definitely use a home page that is less confusing for
>> non-programming newbies than http://sourceforge.net/projects/scribia/
> 
> Agreed.


I'll try to throw a site together this weekend for it.  Anyone have any
suggestions on content or the look and feel?


Cygnus
cy...@po...

_________________________________________________________________
Oh the words that he spoke
Seemed the wisest of philosophies
There's nothing ever gained
By a wet thing called a tear
When the world is too dark
And I need the light inside of me
I'll walk into a bar
And drink fifteen pints of beer                 -   Shane MacGowen

Re: [Scribia-dev] Home Page

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

At 3:49 AM -0800 3/25/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>Howdy folks. Any spiffy HTML coders out there who want to help? I 
>think we could use a "user-level" web page to put at:
>
>http://scribia.sourceforge.net/
>
>unless Lark wishes to put it somewhere else.

No, that's where it's supposed to go :-) Anything to improve that web 
site is fine with me. If someone wants to start working on it, I'll 
let him/her know how to FTP things onto the web server.

>I prefer giving out that URL to the longer one, and we could 
>definitely use a home page that is less confusing for 
>non-programming newbies than http://sourceforge.net/projects/scribia/

Agreed.

>Also, when scribia is updated, someone (me, you, whoever) should 
>remember to send a news item to http://www.clanlords.com/ which i 
>think is a very nice site, being adopted by many.

Oh, I didn't know about that one. Feel free to post my announcement 
there, I'll try to remember to do it for 0.1.7.

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] documents

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

At 11:29 AM -0500 3/27/01, Charles Lechasseur wrote:
>i like his class too for its simplicity. the only problem might be with the
>licensing issue. Scribia is distributed under the Artistic License. i don't
>know a lot about this license since it's a bit vague...

The basic idea of the Artistic License is that we retain a certain 
level of control of where to go with the "official" Scribia, while 
allowing others to freely use our code to provide and distribute 
Scribia-based apps. There are some other details that go with that.

>  i can't really say
>if we could link with Gabriel's code and get away with it. it really
>depends on what restrictions Gabriel puts on his code, i think.

Yes. Could you post his license here? After looking over it, we 
should email him asking if it is ok to redistribute his source with 
(and compile it into) an open source projct uner the Artistic License.

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] Re: scribia

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

At 7:41 PM -0800 3/27/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>>I found one bug.  Back when there was only one wand, Quantos's message was:
>>
>>"*You notice that you can augment others to a greater degree."
>>
>>Now that we have two wands, Quantos's message became:
>>
>>"*You notice that you're able to increase others' balance more."

We'll also add the trainer for the second wand, if you'll send us 
trainer name and log message for it. (I'm not sure if the mystics 
want their newer trainers "known" though.)

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] Re: scribia

[Ben H. <bh...@al...>]

At 1:57 PM -0800 3/27/01, Jeff Ray wrote:
>I gave scribia a second look.  It took me a while to figure out how 
>to import my existing character.

import? If you mean from Scribus, you can't import yet. :)

Just last night i've reenabled "New" menu item making it equivalent 
to "Add Character..." which might help first-time confusion... Of 
course, there is no manual at all yet...

Just as ideas, I am thinking of making the "main interface" optional 
or removing it, making the app more document based. Perhaps the user 
double clicks a character file, and the character stats window opens. 
That window would contain the buttons for scanning. (I like having 
buttons in the interface as well as menu items for stuff... I suppose 
the 2001 way to do it is a "Toolbar")

Or we could keep the main list window (user pref), and just also 
support documents which happen to be wherever the user wants them.


>I found one bug.  Back when there was only one wand, Quantos's message was:
>
>"*You notice that you can augment others to a greater degree."
>
>Now that we have two wands, Quantos's message became:
>
>"*You notice that you're able to increase others' balance more."


Thanks, easy to fix.

-Ben
-- 
NOTE: Please change my address in your address book from bh...@sa...
to bh...@al... as my UCSD address will be permanent.
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] documents

[Charles L. <da...@sy...>]

>I am working on implementing save and document functionality this week.
>
>Anyone have a favorite preferences class, or like to roll their own for us?
>
>I like Gabriel Del Simone's LPreferences, its nice and simple to use:
>http://people.bu.edu/zelig/

i like his class too for its simplicity. the only problem might be with the
licensing issue. Scribia is distributed under the Artistic License. i don't
know a lot about this license since it's a bit vague... i can't really say
if we could link with Gabriel's code and get away with it. it really
depends on what restrictions Gabriel puts on his code, i think.

>I dont think its carbonized yet though. I was thinking of carbonizing
>as soon as i get my new mac (a month or two, perhaps).

what could possible be non-carbon compliant in that class?


--

charles lechasseur - da...@sy...
http://www3.sympatico.ca/danov/marathon/

  "The butts of evil are awaiting my bootprints!"
     - Minsc

[Scribia-dev] documents

[Ben H. <bh...@al...>]

I am working on implementing save and document functionality this week.

Anyone have a favorite preferences class, or like to roll their own for us?

I like Gabriel Del Simone's LPreferences, its nice and simple to use:
http://people.bu.edu/zelig/

I dont think its carbonized yet though. I was thinking of carbonizing 
as soon as i get my new mac (a month or two, perhaps).

The L2 Cache on my PB1400 (g3 upgraded) has apparently died (wont 
enable. ive tried just about everything) so i have decided to get a 
new mac soon. Needless to say a G3 with no cache is dog slow.

-Ben
-- 
NOTE: Please change my address in your address book from bh...@sa...
to bh...@al... as my UCSD address will be permanent.
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Charles L. <da...@sy...>]

>Looks good! Actually, we probably could return a const string&,
>mRename is supposed to be constant anyway (but can't really be
>declared that way.)

no, we can't, since we must also be able to return s, which is a temporary
variable. we really need to return a copy. (besides, as Rob mentioned,
string is fairly capable of minimizing copies and does a good refcounting
job by itself.)


--

charles lechasseur - da...@sy...
http://www3.sympatico.ca/danov/marathon/

  "The butts of evil are awaiting my bootprints!"
     - Minsc

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Charles L. <da...@sy...>]

>Yes, that means there were irreconcilable differences. The file date
>is also set to 2019. In this case i had previously deleted the line
>you had commented out on your own. The new file had it deleted, you
>had it commented out, and CVS doesnt know which you want, so it does
>that. (it is clearer when it happens in code)

oops. sorry. oh well, live and learn :)


--

charles lechasseur - da...@sy...
http://www3.sympatico.ca/danov/marathon/

  "The butts of evil are awaiting my bootprints!"
     - Minsc

[Scribia-dev] Scribia 0.1.6-alpha released

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

Scribia 0.1.6-alpha can be downloaded from 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/scribia/

Scribia 0.1.6-alpha requireas Apple Carbon Lib. It can be downloaded 
free of charge from 
http://asu.info.apple.com/swupdates.nsf/artnum/n11916

Please send submissions/suggestions/problem reports to 
scr...@so...

Changed since last release:
	- Added Pontifen and Bouste (thanks, Cygnus.)
	- Added Bruia Stout (thanks, Gimli.)
	- Counting bounty coins received from an exile.
	- Counting highest fur/chest total/share values.
	- Fixed counting of donation/chest experiences.
	- Sorting & Totals implemented for all GUI views (Bones)


Known problems:
	- can't handle logs from multiple characters in one log file
	- keep track of currently held wood/stone, so we know how many are
	  donated and we can keep the item count accurately
	- money donations?
	- missing: tailoring trainer
	- missing: baking trainer
	- missing: Sylpha
	- missing: advanced mystic trainers
	- missing: untraining with gossamer and blood blades
	- clanning times in the char window are off
	- not all the stats displayed in the debug output are
	  shown in the char window yet
-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

[Scribia-dev] Home Page

[Ben H. <bh...@al...>]

Howdy folks. Any spiffy HTML coders out there who want to help? I 
think we could use a "user-level" web page to put at:

http://scribia.sourceforge.net/

unless Lark wishes to put it somewhere else.

I prefer giving out that URL to the longer one, and we could 
definitely use a home page that is less confusing for non-programming 
newbies than http://sourceforge.net/projects/scribia/

Also, when scribia is updated, someone (me, you, whoever) should 
remember to send a news item to http://www.clanlords.com/ which i 
think is a very nice site, being adopted by many.

-Ben
-- 
NOTE: Please change my address in your address book from bh...@sa...
to bh...@al... as my UCSD address will be permanent.
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Ben H. <bh...@al...>]

At 11:07 AM -0800 3/24/01, Lark wrote:
>
>Another small nit: Scrolling/resizing messes up display in the items 
>and kills views.

At 10:34 AM -0800 3/24/01, Lark wrote:
>Cool! Works great, an makes the displayed values so much more 
>informative! Only small bug is that clicking on the trainer name 
>column doesn't sort.


Ok, these issues should be fixed.

I also removed the feature that let the user cover up the table if he 
or she resized the window when in the "big" view.  The zoom and grow 
boxes both work correctly in both "big" and "small" views.

Feel free to release this version...

-Ben
-- 
NOTE: Please change my address in your address book from bh...@sa...
to bh...@al... as my UCSD address will be permanent.
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Rob T. <ro...@ts...>]

on 3/24/01 11:47 AM, Lark at lar...@ya... wrote:

> Looks good! Actually, we probably could return a const string&,
> mRename is supposed to be constant anyway (but can't really be
> declared that way.)

There are lifetime issues with that interface. The caller can't tell how
long that string& will remain good.

There's no reason not to return a copy of the string. The implementation of
class string is efficient for copies; it doesn't actually copy the data of
the string, just a reference to it.

Rob

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

At 8:29 AM -0800 3/24/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>Yes, that means there were irreconcilable differences. The file date 
>is also set to 2019. In this case i had previously deleted the line 
>you had commented out on your own. The new file had it deleted, you 
>had it commented out, and CVS doesnt know which you want, so it does 
>that. (it is clearer when it happens in code)

Exactly.

>by the way, Erasmus was interested in scribia source so i pointed 
>him to cvs and the website. Hopefully he will be able to help.

He contacted me privately, I sent him MoreFiles 1.4.9 which he needed 
since he's using CW5.

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

At 11:14 AM -0500 3/24/01, Charles Lechasseur wrote:
>string rename(const string& s) {
>     return (mRename.find(s) != mRename.end() ? mRename[s] : s);
>}
>
>and i've changed line 897 in Scribia.l from
>
>const string& theItem = rename(yytext);
>
>to
>
>string theItem = rename(yytext);
>
>this solves the crashing problem and doesn't seem to cause other problems
>so i've committed my changes.
>
>Checking in scribia/Source/CScribiaDoc.h;
>/cvsroot/scribia/scribia/Source/CScribiaDoc.h,v  <--  CScribiaDoc.h
>new revision: 1.21; previous revision: 1.20
>done
>Checking in scribia/Source/Scribia.l;
>/cvsroot/scribia/scribia/Source/Scribia.l,v  <--  Scribia.l
>new revision: 1.33; previous revision: 1.32
>done
>
>nevertheless, Lark, if you could confirm that rename wasn't to be used to
>change the returning string, i'd feel better. thanks!

Looks good! Actually, we probably could return a const string&, 
mRename is supposed to be constant anyway (but can't really be 
declared that way.)


-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

At 10:27 PM -0800 3/23/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>Anyway, my area is GUI and i've checked in sorting for all GUI views! :)

Another small nit: Scrolling/resizing messes up display in the items 
and kills views.

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Lark <lar...@ya...>]

At 10:27 PM -0800 3/23/01, Ben Hines wrote:
>This crashes the scanner:
>
>1/27/01 3:48:56p Sensurr gives you 2 coins for the stone.
>1/28/01 5:47:04p Sensurr gives you 2 coins for the stone.
>
>I took a look at it but couldnt figure out why exactly. Lark?

I think Yarulh may have already fixed it?

>Anyway, my area is GUI and i've checked in sorting for all GUI views! :)

Cool! Works great, an makes the displayed values so much more 
informative! Only small bug is that clicking on the trainer name 
column doesn't sort.

Does anyone have any other mods in the pipe? Otherwise, I think we 
have a 0.1.6-alpha candidate!

-- 
Lark <lar...@ya...>

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Ben H. <bh...@al...>]

Yes, that means there were irreconcilable differences. The file date 
is also set to 2019. In this case i had previously deleted the line 
you had commented out on your own. The new file had it deleted, you 
had it commented out, and CVS doesnt know which you want, so it does 
that. (it is clearer when it happens in code)

by the way, Erasmus was interested in scribia source so i pointed him 
to cvs and the website. Hopefully he will be able to help.

-Ben

At 10:44 AM -0500 3/24/01, Charles Lechasseur wrote:
>  >Anyway, my area is GUI and i've checked in sorting for all GUI views! :)
>
>weird. i just did a check out and here's what ended up in the
>CScribiaDocumentWindow.cp file, somewhere in the middle of the #includes:
>
><<<<<<< CScribiaDocumentWindow.cp
>//#include "CSharesTable.h"
>=======
>>>>>>>>  1.15
>
>sounds like some CVS log thing, but it obviously doesn't compile :) i
>deleted the weird lines and committed the change.
>
>
>--
>
>charles lechasseur - da...@sy...
>http://www3.sympatico.ca/danov/marathon/
>
>   "The butts of evil are awaiting my bootprints!"
>      - Minsc
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Scribia-developers mailing list
>Scr...@li...
>http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/scribia-developers

-- 
NOTE: Please change my address in your address book from bh...@sa...
to bh...@al... as my UCSD address will be permanent.
<http://freepages.sf.rootsweb.com/~bhines/> - My Genealogy Pages

Re: [Scribia-dev] crash & new stuff

[Charles L. <da...@sy...>]

>This crashes the scanner:
>
>1/27/01 3:48:56p Sensurr gives you 2 coins for the stone.
>1/28/01 5:47:04p Sensurr gives you 2 coins for the stone.
>
>I took a look at it but couldnt figure out why exactly. Lark?

the problem is with the following function in CScribiaDoc.h:

string& rename(string s) {
    return (mRename.find(s) != mRename.end() ? mRename[s] : s);
}

the function accepts a string but returns a string&. if s is indeed found
in the map there's no problem; it returns a reference to a string entry in
the map. but if s is not found it returns a reference to *s*. but s is
deleted when the function returns!

i don't think changing the argument to "string& s" would work, since many
times this function is called with a char* (thus creating, again, a
temporary string object).

the best solution is to change the return value to "string". however this
is *very* different from a return value of "string&", since the latter
allows one to modify the content of a map entry in mRename. i've looked
over the places where rename is used, and i don't see it used in that
intent. so, i've changed the function to this:

string rename(const string& s) {
    return (mRename.find(s) != mRename.end() ? mRename[s] : s);
}

and i've changed line 897 in Scribia.l from

const string& theItem = rename(yytext);

to

string theItem = rename(yytext);

this solves the crashing problem and doesn't seem to cause other problems
so i've committed my changes.

Checking in scribia/Source/CScribiaDoc.h;
/cvsroot/scribia/scribia/Source/CScribiaDoc.h,v  <--  CScribiaDoc.h
new revision: 1.21; previous revision: 1.20
done
Checking in scribia/Source/Scribia.l;
/cvsroot/scribia/scribia/Source/Scribia.l,v  <--  Scribia.l
new revision: 1.33; previous revision: 1.32
done

nevertheless, Lark, if you could confirm that rename wasn't to be used to
change the returning string, i'd feel better. thanks!


--

charles lechasseur - da...@sy...
http://www3.sympatico.ca/danov/marathon/

  "The butts of evil are awaiting my bootprints!"
     - Minsc