webadmin-list — Webmin users mailing list

Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 19:20 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:

> > My point - to be as succinct as I can be is that your statements -
> > that MailScanner isn't appropriate to use with Postfix because of
> > unanticipated changes to Postfix might break a working configuration
> > is nothing but spreading unnecessary FUD.
> 
> I am a bit sad that this conversation seems to have ended up in name
> calling.
----
Please tell me where your solid research suggests that I have done any
name calling.
----
> 
> I made my opinion known to a poster who asked for it.  They, perhaps,
> asked on a somewhat inappropriate forum, but I figured a brief message
> wouldn't hurt anyone.
> 
> I did my best to provide sound technical arguments in support of my
> views, and to assist the original poster.
> 
> I don't believe that this was "spreading unnecessary FUD", and I would
> rather you had stayed on firm technical ground in your arguments than
> drifting into these personal attacks to shore up your arguments.
----
What personal attack(s)?

Let me simply point out that the author is reporting an average of
30,000 downloads of MailScanner a month.

http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?
A2=ind0508&L=MAILSCANNER&P=R49950&I=-3

Evidently, there are a lot of people that don't subscribe to your solid
research.
----
> 
> In any case, I don't believe that anyone will benefit from further
> discussion, from us, on this topic.
> 
----
perhaps not - I'm not sure that anyone has derived any benefit from the
discussion thus far but that seems to be the way things work when
someone is spreading FUD.

FWIW, the author of MailScanner has sounded off on this topic...

http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?
A2=ind0509&L=MAILSCANNER&D=0&H=0&I=-3&O=T&T=0&P=63028

perhaps you want to debate with him since I am just a lowly sysadmin who
depends upon others and he reminds me of Jamie, doing perl magic,
updating his program constantly, responsive to others needs. MailScanner
already fully supports spamassassin 3.1 - (offered as testimony to the
responsiveness of the author).

Craig


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Daniel P. <da...@ri...>]

Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
> On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 12:29 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
>     Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
>     > On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 11:46 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
>     >> Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
>     >> > On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:54 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
>     >> >> da...@so... writes:

[...]

>     >> Oh, I don't question that MailScanner *works*.  I just question the
>     >> wisdom of using a product that explicitly depends on undocumented,
>     >> internal features of other product to function correctly.
>     >>
>     >> When Postfix or Sendmail decide to change their internal queue format,
>     >> which has happened before and will doubtless happen again, MailScanner
>     >> will no longer function correctly.
>
>     [...]
>
>     > my understanding is that Postfix has actually implemented a permanent
>     > feature to hold and interrupt mail queue for this to operate and that is
>     > what MailScanner does.
>
>     Absolutely.  The ability to hold mail is a standard feature of Postfix.
>
>     It even has a good, solid interface.  You can hold mail based on any
>     number of standard table lookups, or using administrative tools run from
>     the postsuper shell command.
>
>     MailScanner, on the other hand, moves files between queue directories.
>     That /isn't/ a public interface: that is fiddling with the internals of
>     the mailer, and hoping that what worked yesterday will work tomorrow.

[...]

> it all comes off as sort of FUD - but as I said, I am under informed
> and cannot intelligently debate this but invited commentary from the
> MailScanner list...
>
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind0509&L=MAILSCANNER&P=R51276&D=0&H=0&I=-3&O=T&T=0
>
> http://wiki.mailscanner.info/doku.php?id=documentation:configuration:mta:postfix:politics

I note that the wiki page you reference states exactly what I do:
Mailscanner depends explicitly on an interface to the MTA that is not
publicly supported.

The mailing list also echos my statements: if the queue format changes,
MailScanner needs to be changed to adapt to that.  I even agree with the
authors: another change is reasonably unlikely.  

> What I do know is that MailScanner is brilliant, effective, easy enough to
> set up, maintain and has worked with all of the various versions of Postfix
> (2.1.x & 2.2.x) & Sendmail that I have paired it with 

I have no disagreement with these statements.

> and I have absolutely no fear of anything breaking from updates (as if
> updates don't occasionally break things anyway).

This, however, is where I see our approach differ:  the last time I had
anything break on a server I support, due to an upgrade, was December,
1999.  

> I fail to understand what point you are actually trying to make - that
> all of your solid research means that I shouldn't be doing what I am
> doing because of what may occur in the future? 

No: the point I am trying to make is that I, personally, consider the
design of MailScanner to be a poor design, and that I, personally, would
not recommend it to anyone due to that design.

I also tried to make clear exactly what those technical problems were,
why they were problems, and provide an recommendation for an alternative
package that provides the same functionality without the same design
flaws.

I don't particularly care if you continue to use MailScanner or not, or
whatever.  That isn't of interest to me.

> From what I see on MailScanner list, spamassassin list, CentOS list,
> nahant & taroon lists, that a lot of people aren't necessarily
> troubled by the things you see in your solid research and using it
> anyway - with Postfix.

Which is, again, their prerogative.  You, and they, are welcome to form
your own opinions.

[...]

> My point - to be as succinct as I can be is that your statements -
> that MailScanner isn't appropriate to use with Postfix because of
> unanticipated changes to Postfix might break a working configuration
> is nothing but spreading unnecessary FUD.

I am a bit sad that this conversation seems to have ended up in name
calling.

I made my opinion known to a poster who asked for it.  They, perhaps,
asked on a somewhat inappropriate forum, but I figured a brief message
wouldn't hurt anyone.

I did my best to provide sound technical arguments in support of my
views, and to assist the original poster.

I don't believe that this was "spreading unnecessary FUD", and I would
rather you had stayed on firm technical ground in your arguments than
drifting into these personal attacks to shore up your arguments.

In any case, I don't believe that anyone will benefit from further
discussion, from us, on this topic.

Regards,
        Daniel

Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Thomas L. <th...@th...>]

Yes there is, and I'm running it:

http://www.fh-furtwangen.de/~grund/AMaViSD/webmin-AMaViSD-de.html

There is also a ClamAV module:

http://wbmclamav.labs.libre-entreprise.org/index.html

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 01:28 -0700, Craig White <cra...@az...>
wrote:
> There is a MailScanner module
> for Webmin, there isn't a amavis module for Webmin. 

Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 12:29 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:

> Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
> > On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 11:46 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
> >> Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
> >> > On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:54 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
> >> >> da...@so... writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> >> >> The scanning, etc, side of MailScanner works very well -- as well as
> >> >> anything else out there, basically.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Personally, I wouldn't deploy it even if someone paid me, though.
> >> >> 
> >> >> MailScanner depends, by design, on poking around in the innards of the
> >> >> mail queues of the mailers it uses.  This is ... an interesting
> >> >> approach, since none of the major mailers actually document the queues,
> >> >> or expect random software to poke at them.
> 
> [...]
> 
> >> Oh, I don't question that MailScanner *works*.  I just question the
> >> wisdom of using a product that explicitly depends on undocumented,
> >> internal features of other product to function correctly.
> >> 
> >> When Postfix or Sendmail decide to change their internal queue format,
> >> which has happened before and will doubtless happen again, MailScanner
> >> will no longer function correctly.
> 
> [...]
> 
> > my understanding is that Postfix has actually implemented a permanent
> > feature to hold and interrupt mail queue for this to operate and that is
> > what MailScanner does. 
> 
> Absolutely.  The ability to hold mail is a standard feature of Postfix.
> 
> It even has a good, solid interface.  You can hold mail based on any
> number of standard table lookups, or using administrative tools run from
> the postsuper shell command.
> 
> 
> MailScanner, on the other hand, moves files between queue directories.  
> That /isn't/ a public interface: that is fiddling with the internals of
> the mailer, and hoping that what worked yesterday will work tomorrow.
> 
> > I am not first hand involved in this at all and couldn't make a
> > knowledgeable argument but state with great confidence that it isn't
> > going to break.
> >
> > This however has nothing to do with OP question, webmin or anything and
> > is opinion of under informed people (certainly on my part) 
> 
> The original poster asked, explicitly, "what is the word on the street
> about MailScanner."  Given that, I answered with my views on the
> package.
> 
> 
> As to your statements about "under informed people": I don't appreciate
> your implicit comment that I am making statements from a basis of
> ignorance.
> 
> I also feel that if you have /not/ bothered to research this enough to
> refute my claims, which are based on solid research, then perhaps you
> shouldn't have made comment?
> 

----
it all comes off as sort of FUD - but as I said, I am under informed and
cannot intelligently debate this but invited commentary from the
MailScanner list...

http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?
A2=ind0509&L=MAILSCANNER&P=R51276&D=0&H=0&I=-3&O=T&T=0

and

http://wiki.mailscanner.info/doku.php?
id=documentation:configuration:mta:postfix:politics

What I do know is that MailScanner is brilliant, effective, easy enough
to set up, maintain and has worked with all of the various versions of
Postfix (2.1.x & 2.2.x) & Sendmail that I have paired it with and I have
absolutely no fear of anything breaking from updates (as if updates
don't occasionally break things anyway).

I fail to understand what point you are actually trying to make - that
all of your solid research means that I shouldn't be doing what I am
doing because of what may occur in the future? From what I see on
MailScanner list, spamassassin list, CentOS list, nahant & taroon lists,
that a lot of people aren't necessarily troubled by the things you see
in your solid research and using it anyway - with Postfix.

Again, I read through this 'politics' thing a long time ago, asked on
some lists and found out that lots of people chose to ignore the FUD and
found it to be very effective as have I. Again, I fail to see the need
to debate this here on webmin list - at least there is a MailScanner
module, but no amavis module. I found amavis unnecessarily difficult to
set up and use, I found MailScanner easy enough to set up and use. I
have had no problems using MailScanner to add headers to mail to filter
mail out through sieve and procmail. To summarize my findings -
admittedly, no solid research much beyond the references above AND my
own experiences...that MailScanner is efficient, effective and easy
enough to set up (3 big e's).

My point - to be as succinct as I can be is that your statements - that
MailScanner isn't appropriate to use with Postfix because of
unanticipated changes to Postfix might break a working configuration is
nothing but spreading unnecessary FUD.

Craig

ps: forgive the html format of this email, I did it to hold the longer
URL's together.

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Daniel P. <da...@ri...>]

Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
> On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 11:46 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
>> Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
>> > On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:54 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
>> >> da...@so... writes:

[...]

>> >> The scanning, etc, side of MailScanner works very well -- as well as
>> >> anything else out there, basically.
>> >> 
>> >> Personally, I wouldn't deploy it even if someone paid me, though.
>> >> 
>> >> MailScanner depends, by design, on poking around in the innards of the
>> >> mail queues of the mailers it uses.  This is ... an interesting
>> >> approach, since none of the major mailers actually document the queues,
>> >> or expect random software to poke at them.

[...]

>> Oh, I don't question that MailScanner *works*.  I just question the
>> wisdom of using a product that explicitly depends on undocumented,
>> internal features of other product to function correctly.
>> 
>> When Postfix or Sendmail decide to change their internal queue format,
>> which has happened before and will doubtless happen again, MailScanner
>> will no longer function correctly.

[...]

> my understanding is that Postfix has actually implemented a permanent
> feature to hold and interrupt mail queue for this to operate and that is
> what MailScanner does. 

Absolutely.  The ability to hold mail is a standard feature of Postfix.

It even has a good, solid interface.  You can hold mail based on any
number of standard table lookups, or using administrative tools run from
the postsuper shell command.


MailScanner, on the other hand, moves files between queue directories.  
That /isn't/ a public interface: that is fiddling with the internals of
the mailer, and hoping that what worked yesterday will work tomorrow.

> I am not first hand involved in this at all and couldn't make a
> knowledgeable argument but state with great confidence that it isn't
> going to break.
>
> This however has nothing to do with OP question, webmin or anything and
> is opinion of under informed people (certainly on my part) 

The original poster asked, explicitly, "what is the word on the street
about MailScanner."  Given that, I answered with my views on the
package.


As to your statements about "under informed people": I don't appreciate
your implicit comment that I am making statements from a basis of
ignorance.

I also feel that if you have /not/ bothered to research this enough to
refute my claims, which are based on solid research, then perhaps you
shouldn't have made comment?

Regards,
        Daniel

RE: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Sun, 2005-09-25 at 19:07 -0700, Vernon J. Spangler wrote:
> Clam AV is a really good mail scanner and there is a lot of docs on them.
----
MailScanner, like mime-defang and amavisd is a wrapper for implementing
various anti-virus, phishing, spam scanning stuff all in one - highly
recommended. Clam-av and many other virus scanners are supported.

Craig


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 11:46 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
> Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
> > On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:54 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
> >> da...@so... writes:
> >> 
> >> > I was wondering what the word on the street is on the MailScanner 
> >> > software. I note there's a webmin module written for it. Just 
> >> > wondering about functionality, scalibility, and upgrading.
> >> 
> >> The scanning, etc, side of MailScanner works very well -- as well as
> >> anything else out there, basically.
> >> 
> >> Personally, I wouldn't deploy it even if someone paid me, though.
> >> 
> >> MailScanner depends, by design, on poking around in the innards of the
> >> mail queues of the mailers it uses.  This is ... an interesting
> >> approach, since none of the major mailers actually document the queues,
> >> or expect random software to poke at them.
> >> 
> >> It does basically work, but I really don't feel comfortable depending on
> >> a package that uses as undocumented and unsafe interface to process my
> >> email.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> I would recommend, rather, the 'amavisd-new' package, which does a much
> >> finer job of using standard, documented interfaces to pass email around.
> > 
> > fwiw, I use mailscanner with both sendmail and postfix mta's and have
> > had no problems with it whatsoever. Different strokes for different
> > folks I guess.
> 
> Oh, I don't question that MailScanner *works*.  I just question the
> wisdom of using a product that explicitly depends on undocumented,
> internal features of other product to function correctly.
> 
> When Postfix or Sendmail decide to change their internal queue format,
> which has happened before and will doubtless happen again, MailScanner
> will no longer function correctly.
> 
> The author of Postfix, at least, has explicitly stated that this sort of
> fiddling with the internal queues is not supported, as well.  I believe
> that it currently works by accident, rather than design, as it doesn't
> update all the related internal information.
> 
> 
> So, it isn't that MailScanner will fail to work today that bothers me.
> It works, and does a decent job.  
> 
> What bothers me is that it *will* break at some unknown point in the
> future.  When it does, it may not just stop working, it may well corrupt
> every bit of email that passes through it.
> 
> 
> /That/ is what I worry about.  I don't want to have to find out if there
> have been any changes to the mail queue handling in Postfix or whatever
> before I apply a security patch.
> 
> I want things to just work.  Pretty much every other mail scanner out
> there uses documented, public protocols and interfaces, so I can trust
> 'em to keep working right when things change.
> 
> MailScanner doesn't.  Now, sure, you may not care about that, and if you
> don't, go ahead and use MailScanner.  It will work, for now. :)
----
my understanding is that Postfix has actually implemented a permanent
feature to hold and interrupt mail queue for this to operate and that is
what MailScanner does. I am not first hand involved in this at all and
couldn't make a knowledgeable argument but state with great confidence
that it isn't going to break.

This however has nothing to do with OP question, webmin or anything and
is opinion of under informed people (certainly on my part) and I see
little reason for this topic on this list. There is a MailScanner module
for Webmin, there isn't a amavis module for Webmin. I happily use
MailScanner with many Postfix installations and could never get amavis
working with similar efforts. I love MailScanner, it works, it's
effective and seemingly has everything that Mime-Defang has plus.

Craig


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

RE: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Vernon J. S. <ve...@ve...>]

Clam AV is a really good mail scanner and there is a lot of docs on them.

------------------------------------------
Vernon J. Spangler
http://www.vernonspangler.org/
(520) 990-1863 Cell
ve...@ve...
------------------------------------------
  Powered by Windows XP Professional
    Sent by Microsoft Outlook 2003
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Pittman [mailto:da...@ri...] 
Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 6:47 PM
To: Craig White
Cc: web...@li...
Subject: Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
> On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:54 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
>> da...@so... writes:
>> 
>> > I was wondering what the word on the street is on the MailScanner 
>> > software. I note there's a webmin module written for it. Just 
>> > wondering about functionality, scalibility, and upgrading.
>> 
>> The scanning, etc, side of MailScanner works very well -- as well as
>> anything else out there, basically.
>> 
>> Personally, I wouldn't deploy it even if someone paid me, though.
>> 
>> MailScanner depends, by design, on poking around in the innards of the
>> mail queues of the mailers it uses.  This is ... an interesting
>> approach, since none of the major mailers actually document the queues,
>> or expect random software to poke at them.
>> 
>> It does basically work, but I really don't feel comfortable depending on
>> a package that uses as undocumented and unsafe interface to process my
>> email.
>> 
>> 
>> I would recommend, rather, the 'amavisd-new' package, which does a much
>> finer job of using standard, documented interfaces to pass email around.
> 
> fwiw, I use mailscanner with both sendmail and postfix mta's and have
> had no problems with it whatsoever. Different strokes for different
> folks I guess.

Oh, I don't question that MailScanner *works*.  I just question the
wisdom of using a product that explicitly depends on undocumented,
internal features of other product to function correctly.

When Postfix or Sendmail decide to change their internal queue format,
which has happened before and will doubtless happen again, MailScanner
will no longer function correctly.

The author of Postfix, at least, has explicitly stated that this sort of
fiddling with the internal queues is not supported, as well.  I believe
that it currently works by accident, rather than design, as it doesn't
update all the related internal information.


So, it isn't that MailScanner will fail to work today that bothers me.
It works, and does a decent job.  

What bothers me is that it *will* break at some unknown point in the
future.  When it does, it may not just stop working, it may well corrupt
every bit of email that passes through it.


/That/ is what I worry about.  I don't want to have to find out if there
have been any changes to the mail queue handling in Postfix or whatever
before I apply a security patch.

I want things to just work.  Pretty much every other mail scanner out
there uses documented, public protocols and interfaces, so I can trust
'em to keep working right when things change.

MailScanner doesn't.  Now, sure, you may not care about that, and if you
don't, go ahead and use MailScanner.  It will work, for now. :)

       Daniel


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Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Daniel P. <da...@ri...>]

Craig White <cra...@az...> writes:
> On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:54 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
>> da...@so... writes:
>> 
>> > I was wondering what the word on the street is on the MailScanner 
>> > software. I note there's a webmin module written for it. Just 
>> > wondering about functionality, scalibility, and upgrading.
>> 
>> The scanning, etc, side of MailScanner works very well -- as well as
>> anything else out there, basically.
>> 
>> Personally, I wouldn't deploy it even if someone paid me, though.
>> 
>> MailScanner depends, by design, on poking around in the innards of the
>> mail queues of the mailers it uses.  This is ... an interesting
>> approach, since none of the major mailers actually document the queues,
>> or expect random software to poke at them.
>> 
>> It does basically work, but I really don't feel comfortable depending on
>> a package that uses as undocumented and unsafe interface to process my
>> email.
>> 
>> 
>> I would recommend, rather, the 'amavisd-new' package, which does a much
>> finer job of using standard, documented interfaces to pass email around.
> 
> fwiw, I use mailscanner with both sendmail and postfix mta's and have
> had no problems with it whatsoever. Different strokes for different
> folks I guess.

Oh, I don't question that MailScanner *works*.  I just question the
wisdom of using a product that explicitly depends on undocumented,
internal features of other product to function correctly.

When Postfix or Sendmail decide to change their internal queue format,
which has happened before and will doubtless happen again, MailScanner
will no longer function correctly.

The author of Postfix, at least, has explicitly stated that this sort of
fiddling with the internal queues is not supported, as well.  I believe
that it currently works by accident, rather than design, as it doesn't
update all the related internal information.


So, it isn't that MailScanner will fail to work today that bothers me.
It works, and does a decent job.  

What bothers me is that it *will* break at some unknown point in the
future.  When it does, it may not just stop working, it may well corrupt
every bit of email that passes through it.


/That/ is what I worry about.  I don't want to have to find out if there
have been any changes to the mail queue handling in Postfix or whatever
before I apply a security patch.

I want things to just work.  Pretty much every other mail scanner out
there uses documented, public protocols and interfaces, so I can trust
'em to keep working right when things change.

MailScanner doesn't.  Now, sure, you may not care about that, and if you
don't, go ahead and use MailScanner.  It will work, for now. :)

       Daniel

Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Craig W. <cra...@az...>]

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 10:54 +1000, Daniel Pittman wrote:
> da...@so... writes:
> 
> > I was wondering what the word on the street is on the MailScanner 
> > software. I note there's a webmin module written for it. Just 
> > wondering about functionality, scalibility, and upgrading.
> 
> The scanning, etc, side of MailScanner works very well -- as well as
> anything else out there, basically.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't deploy it even if someone paid me, though.
> 
> MailScanner depends, by design, on poking around in the innards of the
> mail queues of the mailers it uses.  This is ... an interesting
> approach, since none of the major mailers actually document the queues,
> or expect random software to poke at them.
> 
> It does basically work, but I really don't feel comfortable depending on
> a package that uses as undocumented and unsafe interface to process my
> email.
> 
> 
> I would recommend, rather, the 'amavisd-new' package, which does a much
> finer job of using standard, documented interfaces to pass email around.
----
fwiw, I use mailscanner with both sendmail and postfix mta's and have
had no problems with it whatsoever. Different strokes for different
folks I guess.

Craig


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.

Re: [webmin-l] virus scanner

[Daniel P. <da...@ri...>]

da...@so... writes:

> I was wondering what the word on the street is on the MailScanner 
> software. I note there's a webmin module written for it. Just 
> wondering about functionality, scalibility, and upgrading.

The scanning, etc, side of MailScanner works very well -- as well as
anything else out there, basically.

Personally, I wouldn't deploy it even if someone paid me, though.

MailScanner depends, by design, on poking around in the innards of the
mail queues of the mailers it uses.  This is ... an interesting
approach, since none of the major mailers actually document the queues,
or expect random software to poke at them.

It does basically work, but I really don't feel comfortable depending on
a package that uses as undocumented and unsafe interface to process my
email.


I would recommend, rather, the 'amavisd-new' package, which does a much
finer job of using standard, documented interfaces to pass email around.

Regards,
        Daniel

Re: [webmin-l] Feature Request: CIDR in IP Access Control

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

On Mon, 2005-09-26 at 05:07, Alan Dobkin wrote:
> Hi Jamie,
> 
> Can you add support for CIDR notation (i.e. 192.168.0.0/24 instead of
> 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0) in the IP Access Control module?  If so,
> please also add it in any other modules that also use the IP/Mask input,
> such as in the Webmin Users module, where user logins are restricted by
> IP address.

That's a good idea .. I have just implemented this for the next Webmin
release.

 - Jamie

[webmin-l] virus scanner

[<da...@so...>]

I was wondering what the word on the street is on the MailScanner 
software. I note there's a webmin module written for it. Just 
wondering about functionality, scalibility, and upgrading.

Thanks,

[webmin-l] Feature Request: CIDR in IP Access Control

[Alan D. <We...@Om...>]

Hi Jamie,

Can you add support for CIDR notation (i.e. 192.168.0.0/24 instead of
192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0) in the IP Access Control module?  If so,
please also add it in any other modules that also use the IP/Mask input,
such as in the Webmin Users module, where user logins are restricted by
IP address.

Thanks,
Alan

[webmin-l] Postfix and locahost

[Mac <ma...@ay...>]

Hi,

As I have a site with 20.000 members I want to send them a newsletter  
from time to time. I have set up my own SMTP server on my computer  
with Mac OS X 10.4

The problem now is that I was reading that mail with "localhost" in  
the header is recognized as SPAM by many ISP's.

Is there a way to change "localhost" to i.e. the domain name of my  
site or my static IP address?

/Mats

Re: [webmin-l] graphical du

[Obantec S. <su...@ob...>]

Hi Jamie

:(

Works great and you can forget the wildcard as i see now how it works.

Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Cameron" <jca...@we...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [webmin-l] graphical du


> Did you click on the /var folder to expand it? That will show usage for
all the individual sub-directories ..
>
>  - Jamie
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From:  "Obantec Support" <su...@ob...>
> Subj:  Re: [webmin-l] graphical du
> Date:  Fri 23 Sep 2005 6:15 pm
> Size:  2K
> To:  <web...@li...>
>
> Hi Jamie
>
> i tried the module with
>
> /home/domain/domain1
> /home/domain/domain2
> /var/spool/mail
> /var/log
>
> it reports
>
> Total Files Directories
> 493MB 0MB /
> 325MB 0MB   /var
> 169MB 0MB   /home
>
> i expected results for /var/spool/mail /var/log /home/domain/domain1 etc
> also any chance of a wildcard for say /home/domain/domain* where domain*
on
> my system is 1 to X (300+) but still exclude directories.
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jamie Cameron" <jca...@we...>
> To: <web...@li...>
> Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [webmin-l] graphical du
>
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Since such as module would be quite useful for me too, I have gone ahead
> > and developed it. You can download my new Disk Usage module from :
> > http://www.webmin.com/download/modules/disk-usage.wbm.gz
> >
> > It uses a cron job run in the background to collect usage for
directories
> > that you specify on the Module Config page.
> >
> >  - Jamie
> >
> > On 17/Sep/2005 17:06 Pat Erler wrote ..
> > > hi jamie, listmembers,
> > >
> > > one of my more regular tasks is wondering where my diskspace has gone.
> > > du
> > > is fine for this du --max-depth=1 even better, but its slow and in
case
> > > of
> > > this tedious job an image would really say more then a thousand words.
> > >
> > > so, i wonder if this woudn't be a wonderful job for a little webmin
> module
> > > or an extension to an already exsiting one. one could even think about
> > > a
> > > cache for du, regularly updated by a cronjob similar to the nightly
> > > "updatedb" to fuel the locate command.
> > >
> > > it would show a bar graph and numbers in definite kb or Mb or GB (not
> > > blocks or whatever uninformative nonsense du on some systems tends to
> > > spill out) - nothing fancy..
> > >
> > > jamie? :)
> > >
> > > PAT
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> > > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> Download
> > > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> > > Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> > > -
> > > Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at
> web...@li...
> > > To remove yourself from this list, go to
> > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
> Download
> > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
>
> --- message truncated ---
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> -
> Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at
web...@li...
> To remove yourself from this list, go to
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.5/110 - Release Date: 22/09/2005
>
>

Re: [webmin-l] graphical du

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

Did you click on the /var folder to expand it? That will show usage for all the individual sub-directories ..

 - Jamie

-----Original Message-----

From:  "Obantec Support" <su...@ob...>
Subj:  Re: [webmin-l] graphical du
Date:  Fri 23 Sep 2005 6:15 pm
Size:  2K
To:  <web...@li...>

Hi Jamie

i tried the module with

/home/domain/domain1
/home/domain/domain2
/var/spool/mail
/var/log

it reports

Total Files Directories
493MB 0MB /
325MB 0MB   /var
169MB 0MB   /home

i expected results for /var/spool/mail /var/log /home/domain/domain1 etc
also any chance of a wildcard for say /home/domain/domain* where domain* on
my system is 1 to X (300+) but still exclude directories.

Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Cameron" <jca...@we...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [webmin-l] graphical du


> Hi everyone,
>
> Since such as module would be quite useful for me too, I have gone ahead
> and developed it. You can download my new Disk Usage module from :
> http://www.webmin.com/download/modules/disk-usage.wbm.gz
>
> It uses a cron job run in the background to collect usage for directories
> that you specify on the Module Config page.
>
>  - Jamie
>
> On 17/Sep/2005 17:06 Pat Erler wrote ..
> > hi jamie, listmembers,
> >
> > one of my more regular tasks is wondering where my diskspace has gone.
> > du
> > is fine for this du --max-depth=1 even better, but its slow and in case
> > of
> > this tedious job an image would really say more then a thousand words.
> >
> > so, i wonder if this woudn't be a wonderful job for a little webmin
module
> > or an extension to an already exsiting one. one could even think about
> > a
> > cache for du, regularly updated by a cronjob similar to the nightly
> > "updatedb" to fuel the locate command.
> >
> > it would show a bar graph and numbers in definite kb or Mb or GB (not
> > blocks or whatever uninformative nonsense du on some systems tends to
> > spill out) - nothing fancy..
> >
> > jamie? :)
> >
> > PAT
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
Download
> > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> > Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> > -
> > Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at
web...@li...
> > To remove yourself from this list, go to
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own

--- message truncated ---

Re: [webmin-l] graphical du

[Obantec S. <su...@ob...>]

Hi Jamie

i tried the module with

/home/domain/domain1
/home/domain/domain2
/var/spool/mail
/var/log

it reports

Total Files Directories
493MB 0MB /
325MB 0MB   /var
169MB 0MB   /home

i expected results for /var/spool/mail /var/log /home/domain/domain1 etc
also any chance of a wildcard for say /home/domain/domain* where domain* on
my system is 1 to X (300+) but still exclude directories.

Mark

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jamie Cameron" <jca...@we...>
To: <web...@li...>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [webmin-l] graphical du


> Hi everyone,
>
> Since such as module would be quite useful for me too, I have gone ahead
> and developed it. You can download my new Disk Usage module from :
> http://www.webmin.com/download/modules/disk-usage.wbm.gz
>
> It uses a cron job run in the background to collect usage for directories
> that you specify on the Module Config page.
>
>  - Jamie
>
> On 17/Sep/2005 17:06 Pat Erler wrote ..
> > hi jamie, listmembers,
> >
> > one of my more regular tasks is wondering where my diskspace has gone.
> > du
> > is fine for this du --max-depth=1 even better, but its slow and in case
> > of
> > this tedious job an image would really say more then a thousand words.
> >
> > so, i wonder if this woudn't be a wonderful job for a little webmin
module
> > or an extension to an already exsiting one. one could even think about
> > a
> > cache for du, regularly updated by a cronjob similar to the nightly
> > "updatedb" to fuel the locate command.
> >
> > it would show a bar graph and numbers in definite kb or Mb or GB (not
> > blocks or whatever uninformative nonsense du on some systems tends to
> > spill out) - nothing fancy..
> >
> > jamie? :)
> >
> > PAT
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> > Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
Download
> > it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> > Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> > -
> > Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at
web...@li...
> > To remove yourself from this list, go to
> > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server.
Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> -
> Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at
web...@li...
> To remove yourself from this list, go to
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.5/110 - Release Date: 22/09/2005
>
>

Re: [webmin-l] graphical du

[boricua <bo...@de...>]

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:05:41 +1000
"Jamie Cameron" <jca...@we...> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> Since such as module would be quite useful for me too, I have gone ahead
> and developed it. You can download my new Disk Usage module from :
> http://www.webmin.com/download/modules/disk-usage.wbm.gz
> 
> It uses a cron job run in the background to collect usage for directories
> that you specify on the Module Config page.
> 
>  - Jamie
> 

thank you

Re: [webmin-l] graphical du

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

Hi everyone,

Since such as module would be quite useful for me too, I have gone ahead
and developed it. You can download my new Disk Usage module from :
http://www.webmin.com/download/modules/disk-usage.wbm.gz

It uses a cron job run in the background to collect usage for directories
that you specify on the Module Config page.

 - Jamie

On 17/Sep/2005 17:06 Pat Erler wrote ..
> hi jamie, listmembers,
> 
> one of my more regular tasks is wondering where my diskspace has gone.
> du  
> is fine for this du --max-depth=1 even better, but its slow and in case
> of  
> this tedious job an image would really say more then a thousand words.
> 
> so, i wonder if this woudn't be a wonderful job for a little webmin module
> or an extension to an already exsiting one. one could even think about
> a  
> cache for du, regularly updated by a cronjob similar to the nightly  
> "updatedb" to fuel the locate command.
> 
> it would show a bar graph and numbers in definite kb or Mb or GB (not 
> blocks or whatever uninformative nonsense du on some systems tends to 
> spill out) - nothing fancy..
> 
> jamie? :)
> 
> PAT
> 
> --
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> -
> Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at web...@li...
> To remove yourself from this list, go to
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list

Re: [webmin-l] Feature request/neat idea

[Joe C. <jo...@sw...>]

I think the neatest bit about my module is the graphs...and the way I 
actually draw them behind the scenes is pretty clunky, even after I 
converted it to a function rather than inline HTML--but I use nice 
images, which makes them look really good.  Jamie can do better, and 
I'll donate my images (or draw some new ones) to make it look good.  ;-)

The right way to do it would probably be with a HTML+CSS graph drawing 
library that has nice output...but I couldn't find one three years ago 
when I was working on the graphs in the System Information module (and 
CSS didn't exist in all browsers).

David W. Brown wrote:
> To help kick this around: what about the excellent functionality I
> have been getting from Joe's System Information module? I have been
> using this module for quite some time and I am happy with the display
> but I think it has room for more sys info display. Or, glean some of
> the features from the System Information module for the <<<neat/cool
> idea>>>. :-) David.

RE: [webmin-l] CentOS 2.1 Network Configuration Module disappeared

[<tbu...@vi...>]

Thanks for the reply.  I'm probably misunderstanding you but I don't see 
any webmin-core part to install.  I normally install from the tarball.  I 
uninstalled via the uninstall script and then reinstalled 1.230 with the 
same results.  Thanks.



Rouke de Jong <rou...@gm...> 
Sent by: web...@li...
09/21/2005 05:05 PM
Please respond to
web...@li...


To
<web...@li...>
cc

Subject
RE: [webmin-l] CentOS 2.1 Network Configuration Module disappeared






Try to install the webmin-core part, that should solve the rest

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: web...@li...
[mailto:web...@li...] Namens 
tbu...@vi...
Verzonden: woensdag 21 september 2005 17:21
Aan: web...@li...
Onderwerp: [webmin-l] CentOS 2.1 Network Configuration Module disappeared

Since updating to Webmin-1.220 on CentOS 2.1, I do not have access to the 
Network Configuration module.  When I manually put the URL in 
(https://localhost:10000/net/index.cgi), I get this message: Access denied 

: User admin is not allowed to use the Network Configuration module.
When I try to manually install the net.wbm module, I get this message: 
Failed to install uploaded module : Module net does not support this 
operating system (Redhat Linux 2.1AS).
This also seems to be the case when I do a new install or upgrade to 
Webmin-1.230.  An official RHEL 2.1AS install seems to work fine as does 
CentOS 3.x and 4.x.

Can anyone give me some pointers on how to fix this, please?  Or is it a 
bug?  Thank you.


-------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is sponsored by:
Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. 
Download
it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
-
Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at 
web...@li...
To remove yourself from this list, go to
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-------------------------------------------------------
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Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. 
Download
it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
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-
Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at 
web...@li...
To remove yourself from this list, go to
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Re: [webmin-l] Feature request/neat idea

[Adam K. <ake...@ni...>]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mostly, I saw this screenshot and thought "that would be cool for webmin".

http://www.clarkconnect.com/images/ss_dashboard.png


David W. Brown proclaimed the following on 09/22/2005 01:55 AM:
> To help kick this around: what about the excellent functionality I have been getting from Joe's System Information module? I have been using this module for quite some time and I am happy with the display but I think it has room for more sys info display. Or, glean some of the features from the System Information module for the <<<neat/cool idea>>>. :-) David.
> 
> On 21/Sep/2005 19:32 Jamie Cameron wrote ..
> 
>>Hi Adam,
>>That sounds like a pretty cool idea...
>>
>>I'm thinking that it may make more sense as part of the existing System
>>and Server Status module, which currently just displays if various
>>services are up or down. However, it could be enhanced to display
>>additional information as you suggested, such as the system load,
>>connected users, etc..
>>
>>What do you think?
>>
>> - Jamie
>>
>>On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 02:06, Adam Kennedy wrote:
>>
>>>So I had this idea today. I know it would make my life easier.
>>>
>>>A new webmin module named "Summary" or "Server Summary".
>>>
>>>This module would display a simple status from all modules in webmin.
>>
>>It
>>
>>>could call a function from each webmin module, much like the function
>>>when adding a system user. That function would return some status info
>>>for that modules block. It would be up to each module's configuration
>>>page as to what would be displayed in this "summary module".
>>>
>>>
>>>For example.
>>>
>>>The module would start out with a section (each section is either in
>>
>>a
>>
>>>table cell which would be made pretty, or seperated by an <hr>) that
>>>listed the status of webmin (perhaps how many users are logged in, port
>>>it's using, ssl enabled, etc.). Then let's say the next section would
>>
>>be
>>
>>>from a module, say samba for example, and could list samba's daemon
>>>statuses, then the next could be DansGuardian and list it's status,
>>>filter levels etc, then Apache could list up/down and performance stuff.
>>>
>>>I think it would be an awesome thing to use with the "go directly to
>>>this module upon login" feature. A person could login to webmin and see
>>>a quick status of the server, then optionally click on the section's
>>>title to go directly to that module to change something.
>>>
>>>
>>>Ideas? Thoughts? This would obviously require an API change for the new
>>>function, but I think it would be an awesome thing to have.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>SF.Net email is sponsored by:
>>Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download
>>it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
>>Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
>>-
>>Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at web...@li...
>>To remove yourself from this list, go to
>>http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
> 
> David Brown
> IT/Systems
> KBR - Gov. Ops. - USMI
> Kirkuk, Iraq
> Camp Warrior
> APO 09359
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> -
> Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at web...@li...
> To remove yourself from this list, go to
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list

- --
Northern Indiana ESC
Adam Kennedy - ake...@ni...
Linux Specialist / Network Administrator
Phone: (574) 254-5210
Toll Free: 866-254-5322
Fax: (574) 254-0148
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Re: [webmin-l] Feature request/neat idea

[David W. B. <dw...@we...>]

To help kick this around: what about the excellent functionality I have been getting from Joe's System Information module? I have been using this module for quite some time and I am happy with the display but I think it has room for more sys info display. Or, glean some of the features from the System Information module for the <<<neat/cool idea>>>. :-) David.

On 21/Sep/2005 19:32 Jamie Cameron wrote ..
> Hi Adam,
> That sounds like a pretty cool idea...
> 
> I'm thinking that it may make more sense as part of the existing System
> and Server Status module, which currently just displays if various
> services are up or down. However, it could be enhanced to display
> additional information as you suggested, such as the system load,
> connected users, etc..
> 
> What do you think?
> 
>  - Jamie
> 
> On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 02:06, Adam Kennedy wrote:
> > So I had this idea today. I know it would make my life easier.
> > 
> > A new webmin module named "Summary" or "Server Summary".
> > 
> > This module would display a simple status from all modules in webmin.
> It
> > could call a function from each webmin module, much like the function
> > when adding a system user. That function would return some status info
> > for that modules block. It would be up to each module's configuration
> > page as to what would be displayed in this "summary module".
> > 
> >
> > For example.
> > 
> > The module would start out with a section (each section is either in
> a
> > table cell which would be made pretty, or seperated by an <hr>) that
> > listed the status of webmin (perhaps how many users are logged in, port
> > it's using, ssl enabled, etc.). Then let's say the next section would
> be
> > from a module, say samba for example, and could list samba's daemon
> > statuses, then the next could be DansGuardian and list it's status,
> > filter levels etc, then Apache could list up/down and performance stuff.
> > 
> > I think it would be an awesome thing to use with the "go directly to
> > this module upon login" feature. A person could login to webmin and see
> > a quick status of the server, then optionally click on the section's
> > title to go directly to that module to change something.
> > 
> > 
> > Ideas? Thoughts? This would obviously require an API change for the new
> > function, but I think it would be an awesome thing to have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF.Net email is sponsored by:
> Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download
> it for free - -and be entered to win a 42" plasma tv or your very own
> Sony(tm)PSP.  Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php
> -
> Forwarded by the Webmin mailing list at web...@li...
> To remove yourself from this list, go to
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webadmin-list
David Brown
IT/Systems
KBR - Gov. Ops. - USMI
Kirkuk, Iraq
Camp Warrior
APO 09359

Re: [webmin-l] virtualmin and Pro FTP

[Jamie C. <jca...@we...>]

Hi,
That message is just a suggestion that you add the line /bin/false to
the /etc/shells file. It may not be necessary depending on how your FTP
server is configured, but is generally a good idea ..

 - Jamie

On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 13:12, da...@so... wrote:
> Hi,
> Great work Jamie. Question I have is getting ftp (specifically ProFTP)
> to work with an account created with virtualmin. I keep getting the
> prompt on creation :
> 
> 
> Shell /bin/false for FTP users is not included in /etc/shells, which
> may prevent FTP access.
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what this means.
> 
> I'm running Slackware 10.0, ProFTP is installed and Virtualmin
> recognises this.
>