vimcdoc-translate — Translator's place.

[Vimcdoc-translate] À뿪һ¸öÔÂ

[Leslie J. <cew...@16...>]

Hi, all

Gonna take my computer-free winter vacation(1 month or so)... :-)

在这里给大家拜个早年，祝各位在新的一年里有新的收获。

(sf 的邮递列表好像有问题。) 

Regards,

-- 
Leslie Jackson

[Vimcdoc-translate] À뿪һ¸öÔÂ

[Leslie J. <cew...@16...>]

Hi, all

Gonna take my computer-free winter vacation(1 month or so)... :-)

在这里给大家拜个早年，祝各位在新的一年里有新的收获。


Regards,

-- 
Leslie Jackson

Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] =?gb2312?B?VGhhbmsgeW91Lg==?=

[lang2 <wzh...@po...>]

>    I  can't  keep sync wiht CVS now.My problem is 
> that I can't connect to sourceforge  directly,I must use porxy.
> And I don't know how to set proxy for CVS.
>    when I input cvs -z3 -d:ext:ye...@cv...:/cvsroot/vimcdoc co doc,
>    the message is:
>    cvs.sourceforge.net:connection timed out,
>    cvs[checkout aborted]:end of file from server(consult above message if any).

How about 'export http_proxy=bla:bla' ?
I know it works for lynx but not sure if it will work for
ssh.

And here is what sourceforge says:

 How can I access CVS services from behind a firewall? » | feedback | support
Access to the project CVS servers is provided via SSH (for developers) and the CVS pserver protocols (for non-developers). SSH uses TCP port 22; CVS pserver uses TCP port 2401. Many firewalls block outbound traffic on these ports, thus preventing SourceForge.net developers and users from accessing the project CVS servers. To work around this limitation, we now offer the ability to connect to the project CVS servers using alternate ports (using different hostnames).
To access the project CVS server using SSH from behind a firewall, you may connect to port 80 of cvs-ssh.sourceforge.net. Traffic to port 80 of cvs-ssh.sourceforge.net is redirected to cvs.sourceforge.net. The SSH host fingerprint for cvs-ssh.sourceforge.net will match that of cvs.sourceforge.net.
To access the project CVS server using anonymous pserver-based access from behind a firewall, you may connect to port 80 of cvs-pserver.sourceforge.net. Traffic to port 80 of cvs-pserver.sourceforge.net is redirected to cvs.sourceforge.net.

http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=768&group_id=1#firewall

Give it a try. Good luck!

lang2

[Vimcdoc-translate] =?gb2312?B?VGhhbmsgeW91Lg==?=

[Îâ´«»Ô <wuc...@16...>]

hi,
   I  can't  keep sync wiht CVS now.My problem is 
that I can't connect to sourceforge  directly,I must use porxy.
And I don't know how to set proxy for CVS.
   when I input cvs -z3 -d:ext:ye...@cv...:/cvsroot/vimcdoc co doc,
   the message is:
   cvs.sourceforge.net:connection timed out,
   cvs[checkout aborted]:end of file from server(consult above message if any).
   Thank you all the same.

======= 2003-01-16 12:19:00 ÄúÔÚÀ´ÐÅÖÐдµÀ£º=======

>[snip]
>> accordingly. You could also upload your ssh public key if you don't want
>> to bother typing password each time. 
>> 
>
>See? I told you. ;-)
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Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] Re: Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] About the mbyte.txt.

[lang2 <wzh...@po...>]

[snip]
> accordingly. You could also upload your ssh public key if you don't want
> to bother typing password each time. 
> 

See? I told you. ;-)

Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] Re: Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] About the mbyte.txt.

[Leslie J. <cew...@16...>]

On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 19:34:54 +0800 (CST)
"吴传辉" <wuc...@16...> wrote:

>     In Redhat,when I input:
>     cvs -d:pserver:ye...@cv.../cvsroot/vimcdoc/ login,
>     the message is :
>     logging in to :pserver:ye...@cv...:2401/cvsroot/vimcdoc;
>     password:*****
>     connect to cvs.sf.net(66.35.250.207:2401)failed,connection 
>     timed out.

Don't do that.  Pserver mode is only for anonymous access.
Instead, do as follows:

$ export CVS_RSH=ssh
 
$ cvs -z3 -d:ext:ye...@cv...:/cvsroot/vimcdoc co doc

(Remember that you, as a developer,  _never_ have to 'cvs login' before
you 'cvs update' or 'cvs commit', etc.)

For more convenience, set the CVSROOT
accordingly. You could also upload your ssh public key if you don't want
to bother typing password each time. 


Regards,

-- 
Leslie Jackson

[Vimcdoc-translate] =?gb2312?B?UmU6IFJlOiBbVmltY2RvYy10cmFuc2xhdGVdIEFib3V0IHRoZSBtYnl0ZS50eHQu?=

[Îâ´«»Ô <wuc...@16...>]

hi,
    thank you at first.
    I connect to  sourceforge needing proxy.but I don't know how to use proxy to keep sync with CVS.
    In Redhat,when I input:
    cvs -d:pserver:ye...@cv.../cvsroot/vimcdoc/ login,
    the message is :
    logging in to :pserver:ye...@cv...:2401/cvsroot/vimcdoc;
    password:*****
    connect to cvs.sf.net(66.35.250.207:2401)failed,connection 
    timed out.
I also can't read the page 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/vimcdoc/doc/

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Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] =?gb2312?B?QWJvdXQgdGhlIG1ieXRlLnR4dC4=?=

[lang2 <wzh...@po...>]

On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:47:05 +0800 (CST)
> I have translated os_unix.txt.Then I want to translate 
> mbyte.txt.But I can't keep sync with CVS.

If you can tell us what exactly your problem was with CVS,
I belive many of us here would be able to help you. CVS is
currently the only way to identify whether a file has been
taken or not. So check in and check in soon.

> From cosoft I know it isn't translated.
> who can tell me whether it's translated?
> Thank you!
Can you read this page I mentioned earlier?
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/vimcdoc/doc/

According to that page, it is not.


Rgds,


lang2

Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] About the mbyte.txt.

[chimin y. <ych...@ya...>]

not me.

--- Îâ´«»Ô <wuc...@16...> wrote:
> I have translated os_unix.txt.Then I want to
> translate 
> mbyte.txt.But I can't keep sync with CVS.
> From cosoft I know it isn't translated.
> who can tell me whether it's translated?
> Thank you!
> 

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[Vimcdoc-translate] =?gb2312?B?QWJvdXQgdGhlIG1ieXRlLnR4dC4=?=

[Îâ´«»Ô <wuc...@16...>]

I have translated os_unix.txt.Then I want to translate 
mbyte.txt.But I can't keep sync with CVS.
From cosoft I know it isn't translated.
who can tell me whether it's translated?
Thank you!
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Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] scope of vimcdoc project

[chimin y. <ych...@ya...>]

While we accept the fact that in computer and software
area English is the working language, people in this
area should not have any excuse for not taking the
language as one's professional training and technical
background. If one desires to read something beyond
most normal users should know, then please read in
English. This is because (1) there are too much to
translate into Chinese that all of us could
accomplish,
and (2) there aren't too many need to read such
material.

The goal of various translation projects should always
focus on the largest reader group and help them to 
acqure sufficient understanding and necessary skills
for using the software. Now if one is a programming
developer but is English illiterate, and asks other
people to translate volumes of ref pages for him,
without paying a penny, what would you think? I'd 
think this is to abuse my time, this is not fair, this

is...Plus, I simply do not trust him to become a great

developer by reading Chinese version of ref pages that

may contain much mistranslation, vagueness, and 
ambiguities. I'd say to him "go back to study English 
or just do something else that need no English". 

Free software society doesn't have as deep pocket
as MS does. It just cannot afford to translate 
ref pages for most popular software. But we're 
determined to make user manual, guides, and tutorials
availabe in good quality. We beg users for
understanding and agreement.

Based upon tha above thoughts, let's look ahead for 3
years. By then we might have already completed 10 user
manuals, or we would be still struggling with 2
incomplete ref manuals. Which approach would benefit
the user and bring us with a sense of success?
 
CY  

 

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Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] scope of vimcdoc project

[lang2 <wzh...@po...>]

[snip]

On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 02:16:14 -0800 (PST)
 chimin yen <ych...@ya...> wrote:
> As a doc translator, I ask myself wgat is of the
> highest priority. And always I remind myself, there 
> are a lot of good software that the potential users 
> simply cannot start with just because no entry level 
> of user manuals, guides, tutorials in Chinese.

Anyone else on this topic? 

I can see where chimin comes from. He _deos_ have his
point. But also, I fear that the reference manual will
be ignored if they remain in foreign language. I recently
forwarded an interesting article onto linuxforum and was
well received. I think it is because it is in our mother
tongue. Yes it is a nice article. But I believe I've 
forwarded article that are far more interesting than
this one. But unfortunately they were more or less ignored.

Do we need a poll on this?

Rgds,


lang2

Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] =

[lang2 <wzh...@po...>]

On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:36:12 +0800 (CST)
 "Îâ´«»Ô" <wuc...@16...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>    I found I can't connect to sf ,also can't keep sync 
> with CVS today.

What exactly is the problem?

> So I can't get the exact status.
> I get information only form the mailing list and cosoft.
> I have translated os_unix.txt.

Well that one should be safe.

> Is there another place I upload it?
ehm, no. If you *really* can't, send it to me and I will
check it in for you. But you need to sort out CVS.


lang2

[Vimcdoc-translate] =?gb2312?B?SSBjYW4ndCBjb25uZWN0IHRvIHNmISE=?=

[Îâ´«»Ô <wuc...@16...>]

Hi all,
   I found I can't connect to sf ,also can't keep sync 
with CVS today.So I can't get the exact status.
I get information only form the mailing list and cosoft.
I have translated os_unix.txt.
Is there another place I upload it?
=============================================================
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Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] scope of vimcdoc project

[chimin y. <ych...@ya...>]

As a doc translator, I ask myself wgat is of the
highest priority. And always I remind myself, there 
are a lot of good software that the potential users 
simply cannot start with just because no entry level 
of user manuals, guides, tutorials in Chinese.

Even published books do not satisfy this demand for 
various reasons such as version updates and poorly 
written or translated text.

The Linux community need Chinese version of reading 
materials for those software tools that would soon 
become integrated parts of corporation software. Take
this as the goal of the translation project will 
certainly win support from the Linux community and,
in turn, grow this community.


--- chimin yen <ych...@ya...> wrote:
> ref manual is more or less like man pages.
> Think about why cman project 'died' or can
> never claim 'done'. 
> 
> CY


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[Vimcdoc-translate] Re: [Vimcdoc-translate]

[lang2 <wzh...@po...>]

Hi Wu,

I've added you to the member list. Hopefully wandys would
be able to add you to our webpage on cosoft as well. 


> I always get the vcd status
>          form http://vcd.cosoft.org.cn,is it exact?  

No. CVS is the only way to secure your ownership of a 
file. Status page is a nice and has to be manually kept 
sync with CVS. Besides, sometime cosoft just isn't stable
enough.


Rgds,


lang2

Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] scope of vimcdoc project

[chimin y. <ych...@ya...>]

ref manual is more or less like man pages.
Think about why cman project 'died' or can
never claim 'done'. 

CY

--- lang2    <wzh...@po...> wrote:
> > 
> > >     Who would read ref manual anyway? For those
> who
> > > need to read ref manual, English should not be
> > > problem.
> > 
> > I think a lot of ppl would read the ref manual,
> yet not in the same way
> > they would read the user manual.
> 
> Agreed. That's exactly why Vim would have two sets
> of 
> documentation. Well, not really two sets, but you
> got the
> idea. Ref manual are intended to be read after the 
> usr_??.txt. They are more thourough thus harder to
> read and 
> translate. :(. Actually because of this, I think it
> is (in 
> a way) more important to translate those. 
> 
> Please let use all discuss about this if you wish.
> 
> Ken? What were you thinking when you first started
> this
> project?
> 
> 
> Of course, there should be priority of various
> documents.
> Things which are rarelly used should be considered
> at the
> last. At this stage, the usr_??.txt are more or less
> done.
> (There aren't many of them.) It sure is a very good
> idea
> to get them translated and get them translated
> right. 
> 
> Rgds,
> 
> 
> lang2
> 
> 
>
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Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] =?gb2312?B?SSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gam9pbiB2aW1jZG9j?=

[lang2 <wzh...@po...>]

Welcome Wu,

I think I am late on replying you. :( Please execuse for 
my laziness. Anyways, a warm welcome on behalf of the 
rest of the team.

To get started, please read:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/vimcdoc/data/guides.txt?rev=HEAD&content-type=text/plain

That document was actually a bit out of date (my fault 
again). But it should be ok for getting started. 

Basically, you pick a file that is not yet translated and
work with it. Check it in before actually translate it so
that others knows someone is doing it. The mailing list is
pretty helpful for discussion and getting help. It would 
be useful to go through the archive as well if you have
time.

Well, that was it. I am sure I missed something. Let the
others fill me in. 

Enjoy your stay and happy vimming. 


lang2


On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 14:45:07 +0800 (CST)
 "Îâ´«»Ô" <wuc...@16...> wrote:
> ÄãÃǺã¬
>     ÎÒÔÚcosoftÉÏ¿´ÁËÄãÃǵÄÏîÄ¿£¬¾õµÃºÜÓÐÒâÒ壬ËäÈ»ÄãÃÇÒѾ­·­ÒëÁËһЩ£¬µ«ÊÇÏ£ÍûºóÃæºÍÄãÃÇÒ»Æð·­Òë¡£ÎÒÏÖÔÚÒѾ­·Å¼Ù£¬¿ÉÒÔÈ«ÉíÐĵÄͶÈëµ½´ËÏîÄ¿ÖС£²»Öª¼ÓÈëÄãÃǵÄÏîÄ¿£¬ÐèÒªÂú×ãʲôÌõ¼þ£¿
> =============================================================
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> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] scope of vimcdoc project

[lang2 <wzh...@po...>]

> 
> >     Who would read ref manual anyway? For those who
> > need to read ref manual, English should not be
> > problem.
> 
> I think a lot of ppl would read the ref manual, yet not in the same way
> they would read the user manual.

Agreed. That's exactly why Vim would have two sets of 
documentation. Well, not really two sets, but you got the
idea. Ref manual are intended to be read after the 
usr_??.txt. They are more thourough thus harder to read and 
translate. :(. Actually because of this, I think it is (in 
a way) more important to translate those. 

Please let use all discuss about this if you wish.

Ken? What were you thinking when you first started this
project?


Of course, there should be priority of various documents.
Things which are rarelly used should be considered at the
last. At this stage, the usr_??.txt are more or less done.
(There aren't many of them.) It sure is a very good idea
to get them translated and get them translated right. 

Rgds,


lang2

[Vimcdoc-translate] =?gb2312?B?SSdkIGxpa2UgdG8gam9pbiB2aW1jZG9j?=

[Îâ´«»Ô <wuc...@16...>]

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    ÎÒÔÚcosoftÉÏ¿´ÁËÄãÃǵÄÏîÄ¿£¬¾õµÃºÜÓÐÒâÒ壬ËäÈ»ÄãÃÇÒѾ­·­ÒëÁËһЩ£¬µ«ÊÇÏ£ÍûºóÃæºÍÄãÃÇÒ»Æð·­Òë¡£ÎÒÏÖÔÚÒѾ­·Å¼Ù£¬¿ÉÒÔÈ«ÉíÐĵÄͶÈëµ½´ËÏîÄ¿ÖС£²»Öª¼ÓÈëÄãÃǵÄÏîÄ¿£¬ÐèÒªÂú×ãʲôÌõ¼þ£¿
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Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] scope of vimcdoc project

[Leslie J. <cew...@16...>]

On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 07:02:42 -0800 (PST)
chimin yen <ych...@ya...> wrote:


>     Who would read ref manual anyway? For those who
> need to read ref manual, English should not be
> problem.

I think a lot of ppl would read the ref manual, yet not in the same way
they would read the user manual.

The user manual can be used as a tutorial while the ref manual only as a
reference.  And references sometimes are much handier.  More likely we
would type ":help foo" when using Vim.  Also, when we read user manual,
we often encounter the "for more details, please see |bar|" stuff.

>     Maybe it is a good idea we just limit ourselves
> on user manual, but MAKE IT GOOD AND HELPFUL. 
>

At least at present time i agree that we better off only focus on the
user manual.  When we finish the user manual and get more ppl involved,
we could do more work about the ref manual.


Regards,

-- 
Leslie Jackson

Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] status update

[Leslie J. <cew...@16...>]

On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:40:39 -0800 (PST)
chimin yen <ych...@ya...> wrote:

> Hi, Leslie:
> 
> Please update the status with the following progress:
> 
>     usr_21.txt 100% 2003/1/12  complete
>     usr_27.txt 5%   2003/1/12  taken
> 

Well done, YC. :-)

I'm updating it.

-- 
Leslie Jackson

[Vimcdoc-translate] status update

[chimin y. <ych...@ya...>]

Hi, Leslie:

Please update the status with the following progress:

    usr_21.txt 100% 2003/1/12  complete
    usr_27.txt 5%   2003/1/12  taken

Thanks,

CY

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[Vimcdoc-translate] scope of vimcdoc project

[chimin y. <ych...@ya...>]

Hi, all:

   I looked through the TOC, and grow concerned about
the scope of the project. There are roughly 2 parts
on the TOC: user manual and ref manual. Chinese
version
of user manual makes sense; what about that of ref 
manual.

    Who would read ref manual anyway? For those who
need to read ref manual, English should not be
problem.
Plus, if the translation is not accurate enough, then
whole thing becomes gabage. We have seen too many
poorly translated tech books. 

    Maybe it is a good idea we just limit ourselves
on user manual, but MAKE IT GOOD AND HELPFUL. 

    If we do not draw the line at the user manual, 
then here is a question: for chapters like those
listed below, do we really want to translate them to
Chinese?

These are HUGE!!!!
308467  version5.txt (~= 20 chapters of user manual!!)
244302  version6.txt
174467  todo.txt
145692  syntax.txt
269993  options.txt

Who cares!!
9346  os_390.txt
3320  os_amiga.txt
12712  os_beos.txt
11892  os_dos.txt
3373  os_mac.txt
1399  os_mint.txt
12962 os_msdos.txt
8587 os_os2.txt
3925  os_qnx.txt
11758  os_risc.txt
2591  os_unix.txt
19060  os_vms.txt
15525  os_win32.txt


Just a thought. 

CY

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Re: [Vimcdoc-translate] status page done.

[<bla...@ms...>]

>Hi, there,
>
>I've made a status page on our VCD site:
>
>http://vcd.cosoft.org.cn/status.html
>
>Take a look at it and do let me know if i've missed something.
>
   
   Excellent!

Rgds,

 snoopy

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