tuxpaint-devel — General discussion list for Tux Paint developers

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids GSoC 2008 mentors!

[Tim H. <ho...@wu...>]

Hi Bill,

On Sunday 23 March 2008, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> That brings up another question; Tux4Kids itself (and in this case, that
> means me, since I've signed us up and am doing the paperwork) will be
> receiving part of the stipends.  Shall we simply divide it on a per-mentor
> basis?
>
> It's going to be a pain from a tax standpoint for me, since I'll be the
> one filling out the W-9 form and will be responsible for paying taxes.
>
> I guess I'll ask other orgs who've participated in GSoC in the past how
> THEY dealt with this mess. :)

I didn't know there was money involved for anyone but the students. Well, 
asking others how they've handled this in the past sounds good to me. Some 
further thoughts:

1. If there are any "infrastructural costs" (web hosting fees?) we can 
definitely use some of the funds to cover those. Or we could throw a big 
end-of-summer party. How much does electronic champagne cost? :-)

2. If it's basically to compensate us for our time, that's also nice, of 
course. But I'd say that on no account should you bear an excess burden of 
taxes; the cost of the tax should come from the general kitty before any 
shares are distributed, however we end up deciding to split it up.

However, I'd also say that perhaps we can defer this question until after we 
know whether we actually get funded slots. I sure hope we do, I've been very 
pleased with the qualifications and ambitions of you students who have come 
forward. Thanks to you all, and to Bill who got this whole GSoC thing 
rolling. It's very exciting.

Best,
--Tim

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids GSoC 2008 mentors!

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 06:23:15AM -0400, David Bruce wrote:
> OK, I'm signed up - now tux4kids (meaning Bill, I guess) just has to accept me 
> as a mentor.

That brings up another question; Tux4Kids itself (and in this case, that
means me, since I've signed us up and am doing the paperwork) will be
receiving part of the stipends.  Shall we simply divide it on a per-mentor
basis?

It's going to be a pain from a tax standpoint for me, since I'll be the
one filling out the W-9 form and will be responsible for paying taxes.

I guess I'll ask other orgs who've participated in GSoC in the past how
THEY dealt with this mess. :)


-- 
-bill!
bi...@ne...
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] SDL issue when opening at 640x480 (Was Re: Tux Paint - Canvas Size)

[Tim H. <ho...@wu...>]

Hi everyone,

On Saturday 22 March 2008, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> The other apps insist on 640x480, and therefore that's _all_ they can do.

At least on Linux (& even the ancient 1.5 version for Macs), TuxMath works at 
higher resolution (e.g., 1280x1024), so I haven't seen the issue you're 
describing. It's definitely something I'd be interested in seeing debugged. 
To me it sounds like TuxPaint may be doing some initialization/modesetting 
that we're not. When I get a bit of time (and am not forced to be running on 
battery power) I'll look at the SDL initialization code in both programs and 
see if anything jumps out.

My putting forward of SVG support for TuxMath was to solve a different issue: 
while it works at 1280x1024, all the graphics were drawn for 640x480. So, it 
looks a little fuzzy on bigger screens. Switching to SVG would allow us to 
look crisp at any resolution.

--Tim

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids GSoC 2008 mentors!

[David B. <db...@ta...>]

Hi, 

On Saturday 22 March 2008 07:05:24 pm Bill Kendrick wrote:
> Reminder!  Those of you who wish to be mentors in the Google Summer of Code
> program this year, please go sign up here:
>
>   http://code.google.com/soc/2008/mentor_step1.html
>
> So far (as of March 22nd) I only have the following lined up:
>
>   Mark K. Kim
>   Caroline Ford
>   Tim Holy
>   me
>
> Thanks!

OK, I'm signed up - now tux4kids (meaning Bill, I guess) just has to accept me 
as a mentor.

-- 
David Bruce

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] SDL issue when opening at 640x480 (Was Re: Tux Paint - Canvas Size)

[Doug S. <do...@do...>]

Bill,

I added the windib system variable and then started TuxPaint, 
TuxMath, & TuxTyping both windowed and full screen.  I only checked 
each to see if it stayed running or not.  The results are essentially 
the same as before: TuxPaint works both ways. (I do have the Native 
bit set in the config.) Tuxmath and TuxTyping both work in the 
windowed mode, but flash the non-optimum screen setting error msg and 
them minimize themselves to the taskbar.

Here are my notes from the tests. (It formats better in TextPad, 
which wraps long lines to the same indentation as the start of the 
line.) I have included the contents of stderr.txt and stdout.txt.  In 
some cases these files existed in the application directories, left 
over from my earlier running of the programs.

Any suggestions?

Regards,
Doug


=
-2152 Added new System EnvironmentVariable per
     http://www.tuxpaint.org/docs/windib/
     Variable name: SDL_VIDEODRIVER
     Variable value: windib
-2155 Checked TuxPaint logs
     Try running Tux Paint again. If no window appears, check the 
directory containing the "TuxPaint.exe" file (typically in 
"C:\Program Files\TuxPaint\") for files named "stdout.txt" and/or 
"stderr.txt" and examine them for errors. (Windows NotePad or WordPad 
should be suitable for opening these files.

-2203 TuxPaint
     stderr.txt 20080319-2322.txt
         Warning: Asking for native screensize in a window. Ignoring.
         [This was probably from earlier tests with full-screen but 
not setting Native bit.]
     Windowed: ok
     Full screen: ok
     No stderr.txt in c:\program files\TuxPaint

-2207 TuxMath
     stdout.txt 20080322-1813.txt
         scandir : findIn orign=data/missions/lessons
         scandir : findIn processed=data\missions\lessons\*
         scandir : findFile=.
         scandir : findFile=..
         scandir : findFile=lesson00
         scandir : findFile=lesson01
         scandir : findFile=lesson02
         [I removed the lines from lesson03 to 45.]
         scandir : findFile=lesson46
         scandir : findFile=lesson47
         scandir : findFile=less
     Windowed: ok
     Full screen: Same innappropriate screen settings error
         Program sets minimized to task bar
         R-click in task bar: no means to quit
         Used Task Manager to kill it
     stderr.txt 20080322-2207.txt Contains
         Could not find high score table.
         [This is the same as prior to running now.]
     stdout.txt 20080322-2207.txt
         Could not find high score table.
-2212 TuxTyping
     stdout.txt 20080321-2312.txt
         enter unload_menu()
     Windowed: ok
     Full screen: Same innappropriate screen settings error
         Program sets minimized to task bar
         R-click in task bar: no means to quit
         Used Task Manager to kill it
     stderr.txt 20080322-2212.txt
         Cannot support UTF-8, ASCII-only words will be used
         [This is the same as prior to running now.]
     stdout.txt 20080322-2212.txt
         [empty]

===



At 18:37 3/22/2008, Bill Kendrick wrote:

>On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:19:24PM +0000, Caroline Ford wrote:
> >    I can open using the windowed shortcut (with the -w switch) and get a
> >    normal 640x48 window.  My problem occurs when I try to open with the
> >    full-screen shortcut (with the -f switch).  TuxPain works fine 
> windowed or
> >    full screen, but it has a config program that lets me set the Native bit
> >    that tells it to detect and use my screen size when opening 
> full screen.
> >    Since TuxPaint works correctly, I don't think it is a graphics driver on
> >    my PC.  It seems like TuxMath and TuxTyping are not detecting my screen
> >    size.  If I don't set the native bit in TuxPaint and try to open full
> >    screen, I get the same behavior as I am describing for TuxMath and
> >    TuxTyping.  Is there a command line option for setting the native bit?
>
>Doug, the only reason Tux Paint works is that it's able to resize itself
>to something other than 640x480.  You said that Tux Paint _did_ have that
>issue, when you didn't have the Native Screen Size setting checked.
>
>The other apps insist on 640x480, and therefore that's _all_ they can do.
>
>SDL on Windows can either use DirectX or WinDIB as a back-end.
>Recently, they changed the default.
>
>You can set it yourself, by following these instructions from the Tux Paint
>site (this tells you how to run using WinDIB, versus DirectX, which was the
>SDL default; eventually, Tux Paint overrode that setting internally, and
>eventually the SDL folks changed the default to be WinDIB on their end).
>
>   http://www.tuxpaint.org/docs/windib/
>
>Try using both "directx" and "windib" as the setting, and see if any
>of the apps work with one or the other.
>
>Good luck!
>
>--
>-bill!
>bi...@ne...
>http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/

[Tuxpaint-devel] Tux4Kids GSoC 2008 mentors!

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

Reminder!  Those of you who wish to be mentors in the Google Summer of Code
program this year, please go sign up here:

  http://code.google.com/soc/2008/mentor_step1.html

So far (as of March 22nd) I only have the following lined up:

  Mark K. Kim
  Caroline Ford
  Tim Holy
  me

Thanks!

-- 
-bill!
bi...@ne...
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] SDL issue when opening at 640x480 (Was Re: Tux Paint - Canvas Size)

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:19:24PM +0000, Caroline Ford wrote:
>    I can open using the windowed shortcut (with the -w switch) and get a
>    normal 640x48 window.  My problem occurs when I try to open with the
>    full-screen shortcut (with the -f switch).  TuxPain works fine windowed or
>    full screen, but it has a config program that lets me set the Native bit
>    that tells it to detect and use my screen size when opening full screen. 
>    Since TuxPaint works correctly, I don't think it is a graphics driver on
>    my PC.  It seems like TuxMath and TuxTyping are not detecting my screen
>    size.  If I don't set the native bit in TuxPaint and try to open full
>    screen, I get the same behavior as I am describing for TuxMath and
>    TuxTyping.  Is there a command line option for setting the native bit?

Doug, the only reason Tux Paint works is that it's able to resize itself
to something other than 640x480.  You said that Tux Paint _did_ have that
issue, when you didn't have the Native Screen Size setting checked.

The other apps insist on 640x480, and therefore that's _all_ they can do.

SDL on Windows can either use DirectX or WinDIB as a back-end.
Recently, they changed the default.

You can set it yourself, by following these instructions from the Tux Paint
site (this tells you how to run using WinDIB, versus DirectX, which was the
SDL default; eventually, Tux Paint overrode that setting internally, and
eventually the SDL folks changed the default to be WinDIB on their end).

  http://www.tuxpaint.org/docs/windib/

Try using both "directx" and "windib" as the setting, and see if any
of the apps work with one or the other.

Good luck!

-- 
-bill!
bi...@ne...
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/

[Tuxpaint-devel] GSoC Idea: Updating TuxPaint Windows port

[Leandro D. <ldo...@gu...>]

Hi,

I'm planning to aplly to this year's GSoC. I'm particulary interested in 
the "Updating TuxPaint Windows port" idea.

Should I start looking now for a mentor?

Cheers,
L

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] 2008 Google Summer of Code program

[Ahmad S. <ahm...@gm...>]

> Hi, this is Bill Kendrick from the Tux Paint project.
Hi Bill, i actually keep my eye on Tux Paint and Tux type as refrences and
if they have any thing similar to be used in tuxmath.

>  I actually didn't have
> much luck with the SDL+SVG libraries I tried, so I ended up writing my own
> code -- twice.  First I ended up using libCairo and libSVG, but then
discovered
> that it was deprecated, and ended up going down the libRSVG route (so that
> it would work out-of-the-box with modern Debian and Ubuntu systems).

> The fortunate thing about the Cairo code was that we can use it (albeit
with
> some rendering bugs, for some SVGs) on platforms for which RSVG is not
> supported (e.g., Win95, I believe).


I got your point, and i'm not sure what is the problems you face when trying
to SDL+SVG, I'll do more investigation in this issue, and the libraries, but
I am sure the tuxpaint source will be my main reference.

> What were the porting issues?  The Pango-based code is used by Tux Paint
> on the current OSX builds.

sure porting will be possible if you using  SDL_Pango, but the issue raised
in glob2 mailing list, during my work, that SDL_Pango will depend on pango
and some other dependencies and as SDL_Pango site itself mentions it require
careful design in your installer, unlike fribidi which virtually has no
dependencies, so mac osx user was just afraid of delaying the release to
resolve dependcies issues, a logistic fears :-D.

> Does fribidi deal with other languages for which we're benefiting from
Pango? (e.g., Telugu)
Not sure, but i don't think so for simple reason, that Pango itself uses
fribidi to handle bidi language, so the expected output from fribidi is same
as Pango, and before fribidi2 and arabic and persian character shaping was
not supported by fribidi but it is now working correclty.

Finally, SDL_pango is very  good and easy to use may be easier than fribidi,
at least in glob2 code not sure, about tuxmath, so If you prefer to
standardize  the method and libraries for all of your tux4kids projects, and
have enough experience with porting SDL_Pango to other plateforms, I think
these are enough reasons to go on with it.

Best regards,
asayed

[Tuxpaint-devel] Tux4Kids GSoC Mentors, please sign yourselves up!

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 07:07:34PM -0700, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> 
> * Who will your mentors be? Please enter their Google Account address
> separated by commas. If your organization is accepted we will email
> each mentor to invite them to take part. (optional)

When I submitted, it only accepted the email addresses I had Tim Holy and
myself, so if you'd like to be a Mentor, please log-in to your Google account,
then go here to sign up as a mentor:

  http://code.google.com/soc/2008/mentor_step1.html

Thanks!

-bill!

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] 2008 Google Summer of Code program

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 03:53:29AM +0200, Ahmad Sayed wrote:
>    I have a question regarding, adding native svg support i did not get what
>    the word native means,  i think as far as tuxmath is written in c so doing
>    so will be by using libsvg and/or libsvg_sdl is this consifer native
>    support or you expect something else.

Hi, this is Bill Kendrick from the Tux Paint project.  I actually didn't have
much luck with the SDL+SVG libraries I tried, so I ended up writing my own
code -- twice.  First I ended up using libCairo and libSVG, but then discovered
that it was deprecated, and ended up going down the libRSVG route (so that
it would work out-of-the-box with modern Debian and Ubuntu systems).

The fortunate thing about the Cairo code was that we can use it (albeit with
some rendering bugs, for some SVGs) on platforms for which RSVG is not
supported (e.g., Win95, I believe).


>    I'd like also to propose support for bidirection language like arabic,
>    hebrew and thai tuxpaint and tuxtype support bidi language by using
>    SDL_Pango which is good but I prefer other approach is to use fribidi
>    directly, SDL_Pango require a lot of dependencies on pango and gtk
>    libraries and make the porting harder, specially for MAC so using fribidi
>    is better considering that Pango itself uses fribidi
>    http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/fribidi/fribidi2/USERS?view=co
>    I already followed this method in Opensource SDL game (globulation2), i
>    start by using SDL_Pango but later on after some discussions which was a
>    poritng issue rasied by mac  osx user, i replace it with fribidi.

What were the porting issues?  The Pango-based code is used by Tux Paint
on the current OSX builds.  Does fribidi deal with other languages for which
we're benefiting from Pango? (e.g., Telugu)


>    My Last question is regarding the policy  not technical :) ?
>    could a student submit a propsal(s) for more than one idea, to work on all
>    of them if he is accepted.

I don't think there are hard and fast GSoC rules about this, and from my
standpoint, I think it would be fine. :)

Cc'ing tuxpaint-devel so they can see, too. :)

-- 
-bill!
bi...@ne...
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] Tux4Kids submitted to GSoC 2008 (Was re: Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code)

[Caroline F. <car...@go...>]

On 12/03/2008, Bill Kendrick <nb...@so...> wrote:
>
>  Ok, for the record, here's what I'm submitting to GSoC 2008...
>  I hope it's alright!
Looks great!
>
>  DRAT!  I did not have "@gmail.com" addresses for Davis Bruce,
>  Caroline Ford (I guess "@googlemail.com" isn't sufficient?)
>  or Holger Levsen.
>
>  Hopefully, I can just add you (and any others?) as Mentors later.  SIGH.

My google id is car...@go.... Another company
owns the trademark gmail in the uk..

Caroline

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids submitted to GSoC 2008 (Was re: Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code)

[David B. <db...@ta...>]

On Tuesday 11 March 2008 10:07:34 pm Bill Kendrick wrote:

> DRAT!  I did not have "@gmail.com" addresses for Davis Bruce,
> Caroline Ford (I guess "@googlemail.com" isn't sufficient?)
> or Holger Levsen.

My gmail account is dav...@gm... - I'll probably start using it 
as my primary email when I move in a month or two.
>

Thanks for signing us up!

-- 
David Bruce

[Tuxpaint-devel] Tux4Kids submitted to GSoC 2008 (Was re: Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code)

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

Ok, for the record, here's what I'm submitting to GSoC 2008...
I hope it's alright!


* What is your Organization's Name?
  Tux4Kids

* What is your Organization's Homepage?
  http://tux4kids.alioth.debian.org/

* Describe your organization.
  A group of volunteers that develop and maintain multi-platform open
  source educational software for children: the award-winning,
  multi-lingual Tux Paint drawing program; the Tux Typing typing tutor
  game; and Tux, of Math Command, an arcade-style math skill tester.

* Why is your organization applying to participate in GSoC 2008? What
do you hope to gain by participating?
  The various Tux4Kids projects are mature, well-known (at least in
  the K-12 education community) projects. However, they are far from
  completely finished. Tux Paint needs improved OS integration,
  select/cut/paste tools, etc.  TuxMath would benefit greatly from a
  centralized configuration and student progress reporting tool.
  TuxType needs proper localization, which also opens up issues of
  non-US keyboard support.

* Did your organization participate in previous GSoC years? If so,
please summarize your involvement and the successes and failures of
your student projects. (optional)
  No.

* If your organization has not previously participated in GSoC, have
you applied in the past? If so, for what year(s)? (optional)
  No.

* What license does your project use?
  GNU GPL for code. Some media is under various non-restrictive
  Creative Commons licenses or the Public Domain.

* URL for your ideas page
  http://www.tuxpaint.org/gsoc2008-ideas.html

* What is the main development mailing list for your organization?
  Tux Paint: tuxpaint.org/lists;
  TuxMath: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tuxmath-devel;
  TuxType: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/tux4kids-tuxtype-dev

* Where is the main IRC channel for your organization?
  #tux4kids on irc.freenode.net

* Does your organization have an application template you would like
to see students use? If so, please provide it now. (optional)
  No.

* Who will be your backup organization administrator? Please enter
their Google Account address. We will email them to confirm, your
organization will not become active until they respond. (optional)
  tim...@gm...

* What criteria did you use to select these individuals as mentors?
Please be as specific as possible.
  The mentors are major contributors (in some cases, core developers)
  in the various Tux4Kids projects. And, honestly, after suggesting that
  Tux4Kids should apply to participate in GSoC 2008, they were the
  people who spoke up.

* Who will your mentors be? Please enter their Google Account address
separated by commas. If your organization is accepted we will email
each mentor to invite them to take part. (optional)
  bi...@ne...,tim...@gm...

* What is your plan for dealing with disappearing students?
  Many of the ideas listed for the projects are major improvements
  that the various projects have been thinking about prior to GSoC 2008,
  so "we'll live."  If possible, we'll try to incorporate as much of the
  student's/students' work as possible, to make it easier for others to
  pick up where they take off.  We'll make sure that the core developers
  understand what the student(s) plans were, so that the code won't go
  wasted.

* What is your plan for dealing with disappearing mentors?
  Each project is mature, so it should be possible to find a
  replacement member among, the people involved, to act as a mentor.

* What steps will you take to encourage students to interact with your
project's community before, during and after the program?
  We will invite them to try the software, look at the source, and sign up for
  and participate in the project mailing lists.

* What will you do to ensure that your accepted students stick with
the project after GSoC concludes?
  We will do what we always do -- make the project welcoming and fun,
  with lots of ideas for improving it that they can work on.


DRAT!  I did not have "@gmail.com" addresses for Davis Bruce,
Caroline Ford (I guess "@googlemail.com" isn't sufficient?)
or Holger Levsen.

Hopefully, I can just add you (and any others?) as Mentors later.  SIGH.

-bill!

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 05:05:06PM +0000, Caroline Ford wrote:
> The programme FAQ says:
> 
> " While we greatly appreciate the value of documentation, this program
> is an exercise in developing code; we can't accept proposals for
> documentation-only work at this time."
> 
> I think we'd need to rethink the easy ones as they seem to be
> documentation or artwork. (I expect artwork also counts as !code).
> 
> We could add making magic plugins to the tuxpaint list.

Oops.  Ok, I've done those.  Here's the updated list:

  http://www.tuxpaint.org/gsoc2008-ideas.html

Thanks, everyone!

-bill!

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Caroline F. <car...@go...>]

On 11/03/2008, Bill Kendrick <nb...@so...> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 07:48:34AM -0600, Tim Holy wrote:
>
> > I think one thing we'd need from you, Holger, is to copy & paste the
>  > suggestions that David & I put forward into an "Ideas page" on the alioth
>  > website (#7 in the list of questions).
>
>
> I'm doing this over on the TP site:
>
>   http://www.tuxpaint.org/gsoc2008-ideas.html
>
>  Hope that's ok! :)

The programme FAQ says:

" While we greatly appreciate the value of documentation, this program
is an exercise in developing code; we can't accept proposals for
documentation-only work at this time."

I think we'd need to rethink the easy ones as they seem to be
documentation or artwork. (I expect artwork also counts as !code).

We could add making magic plugins to the tuxpaint list.

Perhaps something for people studying human-computer interaction - how
to design applications to appeal to small children? It could be an
interesting project for a masters student.

Porting to another OS? Dunno how we'd support though.

Working more on localisation/internationalisation? Content as well as
translation.

Making cut down versions for smart phones/mobile devices? eg sugar port.

Caroline

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Tim H. <ho...@wu...>]

Hi Bill,

On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> I'm doing this over on the TP site:
>
>   http://www.tuxpaint.org/gsoc2008-ideas.html
>
> Hope that's ok! :)

Looks great! Thanks!

--Tim

>
> -bill!
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
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> Tux...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tuxmath-devel

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 07:48:34AM -0600, Tim Holy wrote:
> I think one thing we'd need from you, Holger, is to copy & paste the 
> suggestions that David & I put forward into an "Ideas page" on the alioth 
> website (#7 in the list of questions).

I'm doing this over on the TP site:

  http://www.tuxpaint.org/gsoc2008-ideas.html

Hope that's ok! :)

-bill!

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 07:19:35AM -0400, David Bruce wrote:
> 
> Meaning TODAY! - yikes.  I'm just heading off to work, but I may have some 
> free time.  I'm glad I'm in the Eastern time zone, so that gives me until 
> 3:00 PM...

I've gathered everyone's suggestions and various contact info, and
will submit Tux4Kids in a moment.  Wish us luck!

-- 
-bill!
bi...@ne...
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/

[Tuxpaint-devel] [fwd] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

David from the TuxMath project responded over on the tuxmath-devel list
(used for TuxMath and Tux Typing both, I believe)

Fwd'ing to tuxpaint-devel...

-bill!

----- Forwarded message from David Bruce <db...@ta...> -----

Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:19:35 -0400
From: David Bruce <db...@ta...>
Subject: Re: [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code
To: tux...@li...

Hello,

On Tuesday 11 March 2008 06:17:44 am Tim Holy wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> > Seen on the libSDL mailing list.  I happen to know two of the people
> > at Google (Chris DiBona and Leslie Hawthorn), and had mentioned Tux Paint
> > participating in GSOC to Leslie.  She suggested applying.
> >
> > Would the Tux Paint, TuxMath and/or Tux Typing projects like to
> > participate? I'd be happy to act as the 'administrator/main contact' for
> > Tux4Kids.

Last year, Mobin Mohan and some colleagues added Indic language support to Tux 
Typing.  At least initiallly, it was going to be a GSoC project, although I 
don't know if it was officially submitted as such.

> I could act as a mentor for some or all of these. Some of these involve
> things that I'm not an expert at (i.e., I've never really built a C/C++
> GUI), but I'm sure we could figure it out. Obviously, if David (Bruce) has
> the time & interest, he'd be a great mentor, too.

I'm happy to help, although I must point out that I'm not formally trained as 
a programmer - my CS courses were in the early 1980s on punchcards in AlgolW 
before I went to medical school (when dinosaurs walked the earth...).  I also 
will be moving to a new job and city over the summer.


Thoughts on things to fix or implement:

TuxMath -
1. Agree with Tim's suggestions.
2. It would be great to make the game more themable - support both the 
penguin/igloo theme and the old cities theme.  My daughter has suggested we 
could have an "Islands" theme with small islands/palm trees, an "Egyptian" 
theme with pyramids and sphinxes, etc.
3. Add a new game or activity(ies) concerning factors and fractions.  I've 
been kicking around the idea of an Asteroids-inspired factoring game, which 
could be called "Factoroids", where the big rocks (products) get split into 
little rocks and they get eliminated when they are completely factored into 
primes.
4. svg and higher resolution graphics - although lots of schools have old 
hardware, 640x480 is getting to be really ancient for fullscreen.

TuxType
1. The source tree needs to be rearranged into a more sane state.
2. Use standard GNU gettext instead of the homebrew version.
3. Autodetection of what chars are "typeable" through SDL and the OS rather 
than the theme-specific keyboard list files - it looks like SDL 1.3 will 
allow this, from some of the threads on the SDL list.
4. More "content" - practice sentences, finger exercises, etc.
5. Better graphics as mentioned above for tuxmath.
6. In-game support for editing word lists and practice sentences.

Some of these are obviously better suited to a summer project than others.  I 
think a good project would be something quite modular, such as the factor 
game idea.

> >
> > We have until TOMORROW to apply (March 12th!)  See the various links
> > below.

Meaning TODAY! - yikes.  I'm just heading off to work, but I may have some 
free time.  I'm glad I'm in the Eastern time zone, so that gives me until 
3:00 PM...


-- 
David Bruce

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----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
-bill!
bi...@ne...
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Caroline F. <car...@go...>]

 >  PS - Who out here want to be mentors?

I can help with artwork/free content issues, if that's useful.

Caroline

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 07:48:34AM -0600, Tim Holy wrote:
> I think one thing we'd need from you, Holger, is to copy & paste the 
> suggestions that David & I put forward into an "Ideas page" on the alioth 
> website (#7 in the list of questions).
> 
> Beyond that, it looks relatively straightforward.
> 
> Does "Google Account" information mean a gmail account? I will send that to 
> you privately, Bill.

I got it, Tim will be the backup admin, and I'll go submit Tux4Kids as
a GSoC applicant right now!

Thanks, everyone!

PS - Who out here want to be mentors?

-bill!

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Tim H. <ho...@wu...>]

I think one thing we'd need from you, Holger, is to copy & paste the 
suggestions that David & I put forward into an "Ideas page" on the alioth 
website (#7 in the list of questions).

Beyond that, it looks relatively straightforward.

Does "Google Account" information mean a gmail account? I will send that to 
you privately, Bill.

--Tim

On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> On Tuesday 11 March 2008 07:01, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> > Would the Tux Paint, TuxMath and/or Tux Typing projects like to
> > participate? I'd be happy to act as the 'administrator/main contact' for
> > Tux4Kids.
>
> [...]
>
> > How does a mentoring organization apply:
> > http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_org_apply
>
> /me too thinks it would be excellent if tux4kids would be a GSoC project!
> Do you think you could answer those 17 questions till tomorrow? I'm happy
> to help with this via mail or irc but I also know I'll be very busy the
> next 24/48h...
>
>
> regards,
> 	Holger, who has nothing to add to the good plans of David+Tim

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Holger L. <ho...@la...>]

Hi Bill,

On Tuesday 11 March 2008 07:01, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> Would the Tux Paint, TuxMath and/or Tux Typing projects like to
> participate? I'd be happy to act as the 'administrator/main contact' for
> Tux4Kids.
[...]
> How does a mentoring organization apply:
> http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_org_apply

/me too thinks it would be excellent if tux4kids would be a GSoC project! Do 
you think you could answer those 17 questions till tomorrow? I'm happy to 
help with this via mail or irc but I also know I'll be very busy the next 
24/48h... 


regards,
	Holger, who has nothing to add to the good plans of David+Tim

Re: [Tuxpaint-devel] [Tuxmath-devel] Tux4Kids project(s) and Google Summer of Code

[Tim H. <ho...@wu...>]

On Tuesday 11 March 2008, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> Seen on the libSDL mailing list.  I happen to know two of the people
> at Google (Chris DiBona and Leslie Hawthorn), and had mentioned Tux Paint
> participating in GSOC to Leslie.  She suggested applying.
>
> Would the Tux Paint, TuxMath and/or Tux Typing projects like to
> participate? I'd be happy to act as the 'administrator/main contact' for
> Tux4Kids.

I think it's a great idea. For TuxMath, my personal favorite wish-list items 
are:

1. Build a GUI front end for tuxmathadmin, the relatively new program that 
helps configure and organize large installations (like schools) and provide 
reports on student progress.

2. Development of a long-term incentive system outlined in my email to the 
tuxmath list from Feb. 20, 2008---briefly, as students complete more lessons, 
they earn "fish" that can be "spent" on items that either help game play 
(e.g., a "blizzard" that can be used to zap all comets on the screen) or for 
assembling a comfy home setting for their favorite creature, tux. The main 
idea is to give a long-term visual sense of progress that goes beyond "I won 
that level again!"

3. Implement SVG support.

4. A multiplayer mode (points go to whoever shoots the comet first).

5. Get that Mac port updated! (Hopefully that task will be done before GSoC 
starts, so this is probably not a serious proposal.)


I could act as a mentor for some or all of these. Some of these involve things 
that I'm not an expert at (i.e., I've never really built a C/C++ GUI), but 
I'm sure we could figure it out. Obviously, if David (Bruce) has the time & 
interest, he'd be a great mentor, too.

For #2 (and partly #3), contributions from artists will be even 
more important than coding. Could one hire a student-artist as part of GSoC? 
Whether it could be a GSoC project or not, maybe we should advertise in some 
way for artists.

For some time, I've been mulling over the possibility of writing some PR 
pieces for tuxpaint, tuxmath, & tuxtype. I was thinking of first trying Linux 
Weekly News; they have a weekly feature in the "Development" section, and I 
think tux4kids would make a very good feature. We could use the opportunity 
to not only advertise these programs, but also convey a sense for the vision 
of the future and solicit extra contributors (like artists) that might be able 
to do or complement GSoC projects.

Best,
--Tim


>
> We'd want to think about what kind of assistance we'd like from students,
> and who would like to be mentors.
>
> In Tux Paint, I'd like to see:
>
>   * Open, New and Slideshow dialog code rolled back into once piece of
> code, instead of three nearly identical pieces
>
>   * Documentation rewritten and put into a more sensible format
>
>   * UI themeability (including different sizes of buttons, which will be
>     quite a bit of an overhaul!)
>
>   * Selection tool
>
>   * Cut-and-paste between Tux Paint and other applications
>
>   * Platform-specific Open/Save dialog (requested a lot)
>
>   * Alternate text tool that allows text to be re-positioned/edited
>     later (ouch!)
>
>
> We have until TOMORROW to apply (March 12th!)  See the various links below.
>
> Sorry for not bringing this up earlier. Lasrt time I looked at GSOC,
> it was _before_ they were accepting applications from organizations.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -bill!
>
>
> ----- Forwarded message from René Dudfield <re...@gm...> -----
> <snip>
>
> The deadline for mentor applications is very soon
> March 12: Mentoring organization application deadline (12 noon PDT/19:00
> UTC).
>
>
>
>
>
> Here's more information:
>
> Here's the google Summer Of Code(SOC) page:
> http://code.google.com/soc/2008/
>
> How does a mentoring organization apply:
> http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_org_apply
>
> mentoring organisations:
> http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_mentoring_orgs
>
> deadlines:
> http://code.google.com/soc/2008/faqs.html#0.1_timeline
>
> Notes on student allocations:
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-
>student-allocations
>
> Notes on organisation selection criteria:
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-announce/web/notes-on-
>organization-selection-criteria
> _______________________________________________
> SDL mailing list
> SD...@li...
> http://lists.libsdl.org/listinfo.cgi/sdl-libsdl.org
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----