tsheetx-developers — Timesheet Next Gen - Developer's mailing list

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Export to Excel not working in IE?

[Scott M. <sco...@gm...>]

Oh, forgot about the rest of your message.  The nice thing about going to
Excel is we pretty much don't need to do anything special to get it to
work.  Output to CVS, I think, would require us to rewrite how each form is
created in two different ways.  That's going to be brittle.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Scott Miller <sco...@gm...>wrote:

> Hmmm, from memory, I was getting an error something along the lines of
> "Can't find remote file" when using IE 8, firefox works just fine.  But it
> is certainly possible there's something wrong with my machine, I haven't
> tested with anyone else's machine yet...
>
> -Scott
>
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 7:54 AM, David Thompson <
> tom...@us...> wrote:
>
>>  Aside from solving the immediate problem (though a quick test with
>> XP/IE/Excel2003 worked for me), we should maybe long term go for a neutral
>> solution, e.g. just export a CSV file.
>> Most finance programs can handle CSV files, can't they?
>> Cheers
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:06:49 +0000
>> From: sco...@gm...
>> To: tsh...@li...
>> Subject: [Tsheetx-developers] Export to Excel not working in IE?
>>
>>
>> It could just be a bad memory on my part, but I thought at one time the
>> export to excel function worked in both Firefox and IE.
>>
>> I am working on a few minor improvements to the existing reports, and have
>> noticed that the export function fails in IE now.  It tries, but immediately
>> fails.
>>
>> So, am I forgetting that this never worked, or has Microsoft managed to
>> break this for us in one of their IE updates?  If it's Microsoft's fault,
>> anyone know how to fix it?
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
>> and start using them to simplify application deployment and
>> accelerate your shift to cloud computing
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tsheetx-developers mailing list
>> Tsh...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tsheetx-developers
>>
>>
>

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Export to Excel not working in IE?

[Scott M. <sco...@gm...>]

Hmmm, from memory, I was getting an error something along the lines of
"Can't find remote file" when using IE 8, firefox works just fine.  But it
is certainly possible there's something wrong with my machine, I haven't
tested with anyone else's machine yet...

-Scott

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 7:54 AM, David Thompson <
tom...@us...> wrote:

>  Aside from solving the immediate problem (though a quick test with
> XP/IE/Excel2003 worked for me), we should maybe long term go for a neutral
> solution, e.g. just export a CSV file.
> Most finance programs can handle CSV files, can't they?
> Cheers
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:06:49 +0000
> From: sco...@gm...
> To: tsh...@li...
> Subject: [Tsheetx-developers] Export to Excel not working in IE?
>
>
> It could just be a bad memory on my part, but I thought at one time the
> export to excel function worked in both Firefox and IE.
>
> I am working on a few minor improvements to the existing reports, and have
> noticed that the export function fails in IE now.  It tries, but immediately
> fails.
>
> So, am I forgetting that this never worked, or has Microsoft managed to
> break this for us in one of their IE updates?  If it's Microsoft's fault,
> anyone know how to fix it?
>
> -Scott
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Start uncovering the many advantages of virtual appliances
> and start using them to simplify application deployment and
> accelerate your shift to cloud computing
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/novell-sfdev2dev
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tsheetx-developers mailing list
> Tsh...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tsheetx-developers
>
>

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Export to Excel not working in IE?

[David T. <tom...@us...>]

Aside from solving the immediate problem (though a quick test with XP/IE/Excel2003 worked for me), we should maybe long term go for a neutral solution, e.g. just export a CSV file.
Most finance programs can handle CSV files, can't they?
Cheers
 


Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:06:49 +0000
From: sco...@gm...
To: tsh...@li...
Subject: [Tsheetx-developers] Export to Excel not working in IE?

It could just be a bad memory on my part, but I thought at one time the export to excel function worked in both Firefox and IE.

I am working on a few minor improvements to the existing reports, and have noticed that the export function fails in IE now.  It tries, but immediately fails.  

So, am I forgetting that this never worked, or has Microsoft managed to break this for us in one of their IE updates?  If it's Microsoft's fault, anyone know how to fix it?

-Scott
 		 	   		  

[Tsheetx-developers] Export to Excel not working in IE?

[Scott M. <sco...@gm...>]

It could just be a bad memory on my part, but I thought at one time the
export to excel function worked in both Firefox and IE.

I am working on a few minor improvements to the existing reports, and have
noticed that the export function fails in IE now.  It tries, but immediately
fails.

So, am I forgetting that this never worked, or has Microsoft managed to
break this for us in one of their IE updates?  If it's Microsoft's fault,
anyone know how to fix it?

-Scott

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] seeing other users - a quick hack

[David T. <tom...@us...>]

It is easier than that, if you want to change the interface according to user access use something like:

 

    if($authenticationManager->hasClearance(CLEARANCE_MANAGER))

    {

    }

 

It's OK, I am not a PHP programmer either.


 


Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 21:43:40 +0100
From: pdc...@bl...
To: tsh...@li...
Subject: [Tsheetx-developers] seeing other users - a quick hack





pending someone who knows what they are doing sorting out  ACL for users this removes other users dropdown menu from reports if logged in  user = basic 
In reports.php ( approx line 276) if you replace 
<?php user_select_droplist($uid, false,"100%"); ?>
with 

<?php
$sql="SELECT * FROM `timesheet_user` WHERE `username`=\"$uid\"; ";
list($result, $count) = dbQuery($sql);
$row = mysql_fetch_assoc($result);
if ($row['level'] ==1)
{print $row['last_name']." ".$row['first_name'];}
else 
{ user_select_droplist($uid, false,"100%"); } 
?>

Im not sure why dbQuery just returns the resource id which has to be further processed. Perhaps another function  that returns  a hash of the fields/query results ? 


PS ( Im not a PHP programmer !) 





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[Tsheetx-developers] seeing other users - a quick hack

[paul c. <pdc...@bl...>]

pending someone who knows what they are doing sorting out  ACL for users 
this removes other users dropdown menu from reports if logged in  user = 
basic

In reports.php ( approx line 276) if you replace

<?php user_select_droplist($uid, false,"100%"); ?>

with

<?php

$sql="SELECT * FROM `timesheet_user` WHERE `username`=\"$uid\"; ";

*list*($result, $count) = dbQuery($sql);

$row = mysql_fetch_assoc($result);

*if *($row['level'] ==1)

{*print *$row['last_name']." ".$row['first_name'];}

*else *

{ user_select_droplist($uid, *false*,"100%"); }

?>

Im not sure why dbQuery just returns the resource id which has to be 
further processed. Perhaps another function  that returns  a hash of the 
fields/query results ?

PS ( Im not a PHP programmer !)

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[David T. <tom...@us...>]

I can explain the absences sheet, what do you want to know?

It originates from the company where I was working, so suits their style of reporting. It was not necessary to record attendance time, just absences (on a half-day basis). This was signed off once a month by a manager. The time-entries were used for project time allocation not attendance.

 

Cheers
 
> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 08:46:23 +0200
> From: kr...@kd...
> To: pal...@gm...
> CC: tsh...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc
> 
> Hi Peter,
> 
> I agree with you. The simple time sheet is what pretty much covers our needs regarding assigning hours to projects.
> 
> All we need is an enhanced presences/absences sheet. And ideally a logical link between those two to minimize errors.
> 
> By the way, I have not really understood yet, how the absences sheet really works in the current TSNG. Can anybody explain how it is supposed to be used?
> 
> -Bernhard
> 
 		 	   		  

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[Krabina B. <kr...@kd...>]

Hi Peter,

I agree with you. The simple time sheet is what pretty much covers our needs regarding assigning hours to projects.

All we need is an enhanced presences/absences sheet. And ideally a logical link between those two to minimize errors.

By the way, I have not really understood yet, how the absences sheet really works in the current TSNG. Can anybody explain how it is supposed to be used?

-Bernhard

----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
> The timesheet systems I have used have one of two approaches. First
> approach, the SAP system I used at Alcatel required hours per day to
> be
> placed against the tasks you were assigned. Second approach is to
> clock
> on and off essentially, recording start and stop times against each
> project, which is a lot more work.
> 
> I preferred the first approach where I allocated hours to a project.
> This approach also handles taking absences as you can enter time
> against
> yet another "absences" task.
> 
> In my son's small company there is an additional requirement to record
> the difference between hours worked and what's charged to the customer
> e.g. daily rate.
> 
> From what I have seen in TSNG we can enter times either way. The
> simple
> timesheet allows entry of hours against tasks, like the first approach
> above. The daily and weekly timesheet with the clock on/off feature
> allow entry of start and stop times against tasks.
> 
> So I think TSNG has both covered.
> 
> In any case I think we should list the requirements, list the data
> required, and do a database design which supports all or as many of
> these requirements as possible.
> 
> Feel free to comment
> 
> Peter
> 
> On 09/08/2010 12:46 AM, Krabina Bernhard wrote:
> >
> > Let me share my general thoughts about time tracking with you to
> > make things clearer.
> >
> > There are two separate goals with time tracking that usually get
> > mixed together, which in my opinion is not such a good idea.
> >
> > Goal 1 - Track the legally necessary times
> > ------------------------------------------
> > The requirements are quite basic. You need to record in a timesheet
> > the time an employee started to work. Because there are different
> > work times, you should be able to track the following:
> > - regular work time
> > - overtime (maybe overtime 50% and overtime 100%)
> > - travel time
> > - absences (with reason, e. g. doctor appointment or sickness leave)
> > - break (maybe paid and unpaid break)
> > - (maybe "block time" - this is a speciality for overtime starting
> > after regular work time with more than 3 continuour hours, but this
> > could also be left to the HR department ;-)
> >
> > In Timesheet NG this could be done be enhancing the idea of the
> > absences sheet. It's important to have a report for the employee to
> > sign to stat that this were his woking times.
> >
> > Goal 2 - Track times associated to projects (or even tasks)
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > What is needed is the number of hours a person records to a certain
> > project (per week or month is usually enough). And nice reporting
> > and export functions for further controlling purposes.
> >
> >
> >
> > The problem now is, that with trying to combine these two goals in
> > one solution, you usually have the following effects:
> > - tracking becomes inconveniently complex for users, they have to
> > track very precicely (9-10, project A, work time, 10-12, project B,
> > travel time; 12-14, project B, work time...),
> > - tracking solutions tend to become quite complex as well because of
> > that
> >
> > So my suggestion is to keep these things separated.
> >
> > This can cause the problem that the two times recorded might not
> > match. There are several possibilities to handle this:
> > 1. leave it. If users want to cheat, they will cheat. The
> > Presence/Absense sheet is the only legally binding thing. The user
> > has to sign it and declare that these have been his/her working
> > times. If there are differences on the times recorded for projects
> > and presences, they will show up in the controlling.
> > 2. make a connection.
> > - case a: the user has recorded 40 hours a week and has only
> > assigned 30 hours to projects. This case is easy: the tracking tool
> > could automatically assign the remaining times to a "project" called
> > "administrative tasks" - so everything not billable/productive gets
> > added there. (Or the tool does nothing but requiring the user to
> > bill exacly 40 hours where the user will manually bill the remaining
> > hours to the "project" called "administrative tasks"
> > - case b: the user has recorded 40 hours and tries to assign 50
> > hours to projects. Also easy: don't allow it
> >
> > For making a connection the use case could be like this:
> > - Users track time on a regular basis (dayly is best) to record
> > their absence/presence.
> > - At the end of a period (usually a week or a month) the user clicks
> > on "assign times to projects" or something like this.
> > - For the selected period, the number of productive recorded hours
> > (in the example 40 for the week) are displayed, the user can assign
> > them to predifined projects until he has assigned all hours or there
> > are some left that get associated with "adminstrative tasks"
> >
> > I know that this approach does not fit to everyone. I can understand
> > that one-man-companies want to be able to have everyting recorded in
> > big detail, but for companies with employees, time tracking can
> > easily be regardes as burdensome and controlling every minute of
> > their presence in (and absence from) the company.
> >
> > In our company we would vote for a lightwheit solution as I just
> > described. And by the way 30 min. intervals are enough, I don't want
> > our employees to record "9:12 - 10:22, project A". Assigning times
> > to tasks is nice, but in our case not necessary.
> >
> > It would be great if Timesheet NG could offer a solution for this
> > approach. I think it's actually not very far from it...
> >
> > regards,
> > Bernhard
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> >
> > Show off your parallel programming skills.
> > Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
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> > Tsh...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tsheetx-developers
> >
> >
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> 
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
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Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Task "Categories"?

[Scott M. <sco...@gm...>]

So, one idea was to create something similar to unix groups where tasks
could belong to more than one category group.

Would this be a better way than having each task only being able to belong
to a single category?

-Scott

On Sun, Sep 5, 2010 at 7:39 PM, David Thompson <
tom...@us...> wrote:

>  Hi Scott
>
> Task categories sounds like a good solution - actually much better than the
> separate timesheet_absences table that I implemented. We could store
> holidays, sick-days etc. in the normal time-entries table, and change the
> absence table to just hold general holidays (christmas, easter etc.).
>
> Your question as to whether to commit it to SVN is answered simply, if you
> make it optional then there can be no problem (I learnt that rule from
> tikiwiki). It is worth the effort to add a configuration option, so that
> existing users aren't disturbed too much.
>
> Cheers
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 15:48:33 +0000
> From: sco...@gm...
> To: tsh...@li...
> Subject: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> In the forums there was some discussion about absences and time off in
> general: (see
> https://sourceforge.net/projects/tsheetx/forums/forum/779083/topic/3827046
> )
>
> So, after letting that simmer on my brain for a while, I think I've had a
> good idea.  In an attempt to make the system flexible without hanging lots
> of extra baggage on it, I've added a column to the task table that indicates
> what "type" of task it happens to be.  By default all tasks are "work"
> tasks, the other two labels I've allowed are "Paid time off" and "unpaid
> time off".  And I've added drop down selectors when editing/creating a task,
> and displayed that info on the task info and task maintenance areas.
>
> My intention is to be able to provide HR a summarized report of how much
> time people worked, their "paid time off" time and their "unpaid time off"
> time for any given pay period.
>
> So, is this functionality something that others are interested in?  In
> other words, should I check this code into the SVN repository?
>
> -Scott
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________
> Tsheetx-developers mailing list
> Tsh...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tsheetx-developers
>
>

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[Scott M. <sco...@gm...>]

Disclaimer: I'm not familiar with how the absence form works nor how it is
used, so my opinions are formed and shared as if the Absences form doesn't
exist.

I too am afraid that what you are asking for could cause TSNG to become way
more complex than it should be, so it's good you recognize this
functionality could become burdensome on multiple fronts. In my opinion (see
disclaimer) TSNG is NOT very close to offering the functionality you
currently desire.  And asking for this kind of report is not enough to
generate what you want because the information I think you would need for
the generation of such a report is simply not stored in the database.

Perhaps task "categories" may help toward Mr. Krabina's needs, but I think
further discussion of those needs should split off from the discussions
about how best to implement task "categories".  I'll send out an email
starting the separate task "categories" discussion thread.

-Scott

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Krabina Bernhard <kr...@kd...> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> > Can I please ask you, Khrabina, to send an example of a report that
> > you
> > must have so we can see necessary informations that need to be on it?
>
> Let me share my general thoughts about time tracking with you to make
> things clearer.
>
> There are two separate goals with time tracking that usually get mixed
> together, which in my opinion is not such a good idea.
>
> Goal 1 - Track the legally necessary times
> ------------------------------------------
> The requirements are quite basic. You need to record in a timesheet the
> time an employee started to work. Because there are different work times,
> you should be able to track the following:
> - regular work time
> - overtime (maybe overtime 50% and overtime 100%)
> - travel time
> - absences (with reason, e. g. doctor appointment or sickness leave)
> - break (maybe paid and unpaid break)
> - (maybe "block time" - this is a speciality for overtime starting after
> regular work time with more than 3 continuour hours, but this could also be
> left to the HR department ;-)
>
> In Timesheet NG this could be done be enhancing the idea of the absences
> sheet. It's important to have a report for the employee to sign to stat that
> this were his woking times.
>
> Goal 2 - Track times associated to projects (or even tasks)
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> What is needed is the number of hours a person records to a certain project
> (per week or month is usually enough). And nice reporting and export
> functions for further controlling purposes.
>
>
>
> The problem now is, that with trying to combine these two goals in one
> solution, you usually have the following effects:
> - tracking becomes inconveniently complex for users, they have to track
> very precicely (9-10, project A, work time, 10-12, project B, travel time;
> 12-14, project B, work time...),
> - tracking solutions tend to become quite complex as well because of that
>
> So my suggestion is to keep these things separated.
>
> This can cause the problem that the two times recorded might not match.
> There are several possibilities to handle this:
> 1. leave it. If users want to cheat, they will cheat. The Presence/Absense
> sheet is the only legally binding thing. The user has to sign it and declare
> that these have been his/her working times. If there are differences on the
> times recorded for projects and presences, they will show up in the
> controlling.
> 2. make a connection.
> - case a: the user has recorded 40 hours a week and has only assigned 30
> hours to projects. This case is easy: the tracking tool could automatically
> assign the remaining times to a "project" called "administrative tasks" - so
> everything not billable/productive gets added there. (Or the tool does
> nothing but requiring the user to bill exacly 40 hours where the user will
> manually bill the remaining hours to the "project" called "administrative
> tasks"
> - case b: the user has recorded 40 hours and tries to assign 50 hours to
> projects. Also easy: don't allow it
>
> For making a connection the use case could be like this:
> - Users track time on a regular basis (dayly is best) to record their
> absence/presence.
> - At the end of a period (usually a week or a month) the user clicks on
> "assign times to projects" or something like this.
> - For the selected period, the number of productive recorded hours (in the
> example 40 for the week) are displayed, the user can assign them to
> predifined projects until he has assigned all hours or there are some left
> that get associated with "adminstrative tasks"
>
> I know that this approach does not fit to everyone. I can understand that
> one-man-companies want to be able to have everyting recorded in big detail,
> but for companies with employees, time tracking can easily be regardes as
> burdensome and controlling every minute of their presence in (and absence
> from) the company.
>
> In our company we would vote for a lightwheit solution as I just described.
> And by the way 30 min. intervals are enough, I don't want our employees to
> record "9:12 - 10:22, project A". Assigning times to tasks is nice, but in
> our case not necessary.
>
> It would be great if Timesheet NG could offer a solution for this approach.
> I think it's actually not very far from it...
>
> regards,
> Bernhard
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________
> Tsheetx-developers mailing list
> Tsh...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tsheetx-developers
>

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[Krabina B. <kr...@kd...>]

Hello,

> Can I please ask you, Khrabina, to send an example of a report that
> you
> must have so we can see necessary informations that need to be on it?

Let me share my general thoughts about time tracking with you to make things clearer.

There are two separate goals with time tracking that usually get mixed together, which in my opinion is not such a good idea.

Goal 1 - Track the legally necessary times
------------------------------------------
The requirements are quite basic. You need to record in a timesheet the time an employee started to work. Because there are different work times, you should be able to track the following:
- regular work time
- overtime (maybe overtime 50% and overtime 100%)
- travel time
- absences (with reason, e. g. doctor appointment or sickness leave)
- break (maybe paid and unpaid break)
- (maybe "block time" - this is a speciality for overtime starting after regular work time with more than 3 continuour hours, but this could also be left to the HR department ;-)

In Timesheet NG this could be done be enhancing the idea of the absences sheet. It's important to have a report for the employee to sign to stat that this were his woking times.

Goal 2 - Track times associated to projects (or even tasks)
-----------------------------------------------------------
What is needed is the number of hours a person records to a certain project (per week or month is usually enough). And nice reporting and export functions for further controlling purposes.



The problem now is, that with trying to combine these two goals in one solution, you usually have the following effects:
- tracking becomes inconveniently complex for users, they have to track very precicely (9-10, project A, work time, 10-12, project B, travel time; 12-14, project B, work time...),
- tracking solutions tend to become quite complex as well because of that

So my suggestion is to keep these things separated. 

This can cause the problem that the two times recorded might not match. There are several possibilities to handle this:
1. leave it. If users want to cheat, they will cheat. The Presence/Absense sheet is the only legally binding thing. The user has to sign it and declare that these have been his/her working times. If there are differences on the times recorded for projects and presences, they will show up in the controlling. 
2. make a connection. 
- case a: the user has recorded 40 hours a week and has only assigned 30 hours to projects. This case is easy: the tracking tool could automatically assign the remaining times to a "project" called "administrative tasks" - so everything not billable/productive gets added there. (Or the tool does nothing but requiring the user to bill exacly 40 hours where the user will manually bill the remaining hours to the "project" called "administrative tasks" 
- case b: the user has recorded 40 hours and tries to assign 50 hours to projects. Also easy: don't allow it

For making a connection the use case could be like this:
- Users track time on a regular basis (dayly is best) to record their absence/presence.
- At the end of a period (usually a week or a month) the user clicks on "assign times to projects" or something like this. 
- For the selected period, the number of productive recorded hours (in the example 40 for the week) are displayed, the user can assign them to predifined projects until he has assigned all hours or there are some left that get associated with "adminstrative tasks"

I know that this approach does not fit to everyone. I can understand that one-man-companies want to be able to have everyting recorded in big detail, but for companies with employees, time tracking can easily be regardes as burdensome and controlling every minute of their presence in (and absence from) the company.

In our company we would vote for a lightwheit solution as I just described. And by the way 30 min. intervals are enough, I don't want our employees to record "9:12 - 10:22, project A". Assigning times to tasks is nice, but in our case not necessary.

It would be great if Timesheet NG could offer a solution for this approach. I think it's actually not very far from it...

regards,
Bernhard

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Hierarchical task lists

[Jarvis <ja...@jn...>]

Of course using that model how long the task takes is ambiguous. Is it a 
6 hour task or an 8 hour task? The way I saw this working was that, in 
that example, it would be an 8 hour task, two of which are well defined, 
6 of which are just 'other' items.

The advantage of this model is that if someone books 6 hours to '1. 
clean kitchen' and then you add the other tasks they can book a further 
one hour to '1.1 fill dishwasher' and the total time is correct. If on 
the other hand they have already booked 7 hours to the main task and it 
is subdivided after they have done the work the total time is still 
correct, we just don't have a precise breakdown. Downside is that if we 
want to report on how long a task took there's more work than just 
adding up the subtask times, we would need to traverse the database for 
all possible subtasks at any depth.

Personally I favour allowing booking against a parent task as it gives 
somewhere to enter all that time which is charged to a task but none of 
the subtasks quite fit.

Jarvis

David Thompson wrote:
> The reason why I assumed not book time to non-terminal tasks is based 
> on the classical project management divide-and-conquer approach. You 
> define a work-breakdown schedule (WBS) by recursively splitting up 
> work. Non-terminal tasks are just summaries (rolled-up) of the 
> contained sub-tasks.
>  
> But a next-generation-worthy approach could be to be more flexible: 
> 1.   clean kitchen           6 hours
> 1.1 fill dishwasher         1
> 1.2 take out trash          0.5
> 1.3 empty dishwasher    0.5
> So cleaning the kitchen is more than the sum of the defined sub-tasks, 
> the 4 hours difference is not defined further. This will work.
>  
> Import/export from a real PM tool may be a problem (or needs to be 
> solved), but I agree that a nearer goal is to organise a larger 
> project better, and hierarchies will help a lot.
>  
> Cheers
>  
> >
> > I believe the timesheet system should be a flexible tool that doesn't
> > "get in the way" when people use it. Therefore, attempting to create
> > rules around whether tasks can have time entered against them or not,
> > doesn't seem to be a good idea.
> >
> > Allowing hierarchical tasks is an attempt to map more closely with an
> > assumed use of some sort of project flow to help developers and managers
> > make sense of how a project might be going. I think this would make a
> > good addition to the timesheet system. As long as everyone agrees there
> > will be tradeoffs and compromises, like being able to enter time against
> > non-terminal nodes.
> >
> > However, if it goes further than that, say by attempting to warp TSNG
> > into becoming a complete replacement of whatever project system is
> > currently in use, I personally don't think that would be a good idea.
> >
> > -Scott
> >
> >
> > I wouldn't want to see it become a project system in it's own right,
> > there would be far too much bloat if we tried that my main idea in
> > looking at hierarchical task lists was just to bring some structure to
> > long lists of tasks.
> >
> > The closest feature to a project management tool I had considered was to
> > add an 'expected duration' property to tasks so that I could get a
> > report on tasks which overrun their planned duration (or even underrun).
> >
> > Jarvis
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tsheetx-developers mailing list
> Tsh...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tsheetx-developers
>   

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] User Reports

[Blaise D. <bl...@as...>]

Hi,

> I have not thought through every scenario, but the most obvious problem
> is that manager X can see all the details of project Y even if he is not
> associated with it. There is a project assignment table (which I don't
> believe is used for anything at the moment), that could be used to
> implement a project-based ACL. We would then need to filter the project
> select-list to show just the assigned projects for the user.
> I agree a basic-user could be restricted to see just his user report,
> but I would like to see a group/department manager role, who can see the
> activities of his team members.
> Does any of this make sense?

I think it's a good idea to filter regarding rights assigned to projects 
regarding access to the manager.

And you can use the role to allow people to see only their users or if 
they are manager allow to see everybody on this project.

Meilleures salutations / Best regards

Blaise Drayer
Astron Associates SA

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] User Reports

[David T. <tom...@us...>]

I have not thought through every scenario, but the most obvious problem is that manager X can see all the details of project Y even if he is not associated with it. There is a project assignment table (which I don't believe is used for anything at the moment), that could be used to implement a project-based ACL. We would then need to filter the project select-list to show just the assigned projects for the user.

 

I agree a basic-user could be restricted to see just his user report, but I would like to see a group/department manager role, who can see the activities of his team members.

 

Does any of this make sense?

Cheers
 


Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 19:47:40 +1000
From: pal...@gm...
To: tsh...@li...
Subject: Re: [Tsheetx-developers] User Reports


Dave,
after looking at some of the other reports e.g. by client, by project, where I would want to restrict the view by user, it is going to need a more complex solution than I first imagined. The client, project and user reports start by default at the first client, project etc. Restricting the user reports to a specific user is easy. Producing a client or list of clients or projects only associated with one user is more difficult. And if the user is a project manager, then he will want to see much more.

You are suggesting that the user-based ACL won't solve the problem. What else would you suggest?

Peter

On 09/06/2010 05:29 AM, David Thompson wrote: 


No problem, go ahead. 
 
Though one thought here. At some point you may have people who are basic users on one project, but project managers on another. With our user-based ACL this can't be solved (we may need a project-based ACL at point).
 
Cheers
 
> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 14:51:18 +1000
> From: pal...@gm...
> To: tsh...@li...
> Subject: [Tsheetx-developers] User Reports
> 
> On another topic, Reports - User Report - Generate Monthly.
> 
> If I log in as a basic user, I can see details of the time spent by 
> others on projects that otherwise I would not have access to.
> 
> If no-one has any objections, I would like to tighten up the code here 
> to restrict basic users to seeing only their projects and times.
> 
> Peter
 		 	   		  

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[David T. <tom...@us...>]

> 
> I found it easier in perl using Date::Manip and the various methods 
> for comparing times .
> (I'm not really PHP programmer)
> 
> Happy to share the code if it helps
> 


I think it is imperative that we improve the date/time handling (we've seen this with timezone and DST problems). The newer classes in PHP are much better (but we need to decide on which PHP version to settle).

 

Cheers

 		 	   		  

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[paul c. <pdc...@bl...>]

ive had to do something similar -   different rates for working before 
and after 7pm.
I just let my users enter start and finish times and  when i analysed 
the data I split it at 7pm.

I found it easier in perl using Date::Manip  and the various methods  
for comparing times .
(I'm  not really PHP programmer)

Happy to share the code if it helps


Hi,
>    
>> yes, that's interesting, but we have to be able to document not only the paid hours but the actual times. e. g. 9:00 - 17:00 work time, 17:00-18:00 overtime, 19:00-21:30 travel time...
>>      
> I think that overtime is more based on a calculation (after 8 hours of
> work, for example it's overtime (but I think it must be done on a week
> basis not day basis)).
>
> For travel it's a task in the different projects (or in one project if
> you don't bill the client for it).
>
> Can I please ask you, Khrabina, to send an example of a report that you
> must have so we can see necessary informations that need to be on it?
>
> What I would propose regarding this conversation is :
>
> Having one field where you have the type of "work" tasks, "Paid time
> off" and "unpaid time off" like Scott Miller propose it.
>
> Having fields on the proprieties page where we can define normal work
> hours (for example 8h00 - 20h00) and the price factor that you must add
> when it's not standard time and week-end (1.5x for for week (during not
> opening hours) and saturday and 2x for sunday). This factor will also be
> applied to users during this time (perhaps a field with an other value
> would be a good thing)
>
> Having fields on the user table with normal working time (would be
> necessary to give the time when he must work), how many hours he must do
> per day/week/month, how many hours overtime is allowed, how many
> holidays he can take per year).
>
> Regarding the ability to assign a task to many projects, I think it's a
> good idea but it will be a little bit difficult because we must also
> manage users rights to this on a task basis (so you will need to give an
> access to a task on a project basis per user, ... It will become a
> little bit complicated).
>
> Why not adding a notion of groups in addition of users and you will give
> rights to groups and not users (so if you add a user, you will not need
> to add it to 200 projects and tasks, ...)
>
> Meilleures salutations / Best regards
>
> Blaise Drayer
> Astron Associates SA
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________
> Tsheetx-developers mailing list
> Tsh...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tsheetx-developers
>    

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Hierarchical task lists

[David T. <tom...@us...>]

The reason why I assumed not book time to non-terminal tasks is based on the classical project management divide-and-conquer approach. You define a work-breakdown schedule (WBS) by recursively splitting up work. Non-terminal tasks are just summaries (rolled-up) of the contained sub-tasks. 

 

But a next-generation-worthy approach could be to be more flexible: 

1.   clean kitchen           6 hours
1.1 fill dishwasher         1

1.2 take out trash          0.5

1.3 empty dishwasher    0.5

So cleaning the kitchen is more than the sum of the defined sub-tasks, the 4 hours difference is not defined further. This will work.

 

Import/export from a real PM tool may be a problem (or needs to be solved), but I agree that a nearer goal is to organise a larger project better, and hierarchies will help a lot.

 

Cheers

 
> 
> I believe the timesheet system should be a flexible tool that doesn't
> "get in the way" when people use it. Therefore, attempting to create
> rules around whether tasks can have time entered against them or not,
> doesn't seem to be a good idea.
> 
> Allowing hierarchical tasks is an attempt to map more closely with an
> assumed use of some sort of project flow to help developers and managers
> make sense of how a project might be going. I think this would make a
> good addition to the timesheet system. As long as everyone agrees there
> will be tradeoffs and compromises, like being able to enter time against
> non-terminal nodes.
> 
> However, if it goes further than that, say by attempting to warp TSNG
> into becoming a complete replacement of whatever project system is
> currently in use, I personally don't think that would be a good idea.
> 
> -Scott
> 
> 
> I wouldn't want to see it become a project system in it's own right,
> there would be far too much bloat if we tried that my main idea in
> looking at hierarchical task lists was just to bring some structure to
> long lists of tasks.
> 
> The closest feature to a project management tool I had considered was to
> add an 'expected duration' property to tasks so that I could get a
> report on tasks which overrun their planned duration (or even underrun).
> 
> Jarvis
> 
 		 	   		  

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[Blaise D. <bl...@as...>]

Hi,

> yes, that's interesting, but we have to be able to document not only the paid hours but the actual times. e. g. 9:00 - 17:00 work time, 17:00-18:00 overtime, 19:00-21:30 travel time...

I think that overtime is more based on a calculation (after 8 hours of 
work, for example it's overtime (but I think it must be done on a week 
basis not day basis)).

For travel it's a task in the different projects (or in one project if 
you don't bill the client for it).

Can I please ask you, Khrabina, to send an example of a report that you 
must have so we can see necessary informations that need to be on it?

What I would propose regarding this conversation is :

Having one field where you have the type of "work" tasks, "Paid time 
off" and "unpaid time off" like Scott Miller propose it.

Having fields on the proprieties page where we can define normal work 
hours (for example 8h00 - 20h00) and the price factor that you must add 
when it's not standard time and week-end (1.5x for for week (during not 
opening hours) and saturday and 2x for sunday). This factor will also be 
applied to users during this time (perhaps a field with an other value 
would be a good thing)

Having fields on the user table with normal working time (would be 
necessary to give the time when he must work), how many hours he must do 
per day/week/month, how many hours overtime is allowed, how many 
holidays he can take per year).

Regarding the ability to assign a task to many projects, I think it's a 
good idea but it will be a little bit difficult because we must also 
manage users rights to this on a task basis (so you will need to give an 
access to a task on a project basis per user, ... It will become a 
little bit complicated).

Why not adding a notion of groups in addition of users and you will give 
rights to groups and not users (so if you add a user, you will not need 
to add it to 200 projects and tasks, ...)

Meilleures salutations / Best regards

Blaise Drayer
Astron Associates SA

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[David T. <tom...@us...>]

Hi Scott

 

Task categories sounds like a good solution - actually much better than the separate timesheet_absences table that I implemented. We could store holidays, sick-days etc. in the normal time-entries table, and change the absence table to just hold general holidays (christmas, easter etc.). 

 

Your question as to whether to commit it to SVN is answered simply, if you make it optional then there can be no problem (I learnt that rule from tikiwiki). It is worth the effort to add a configuration option, so that existing users aren't disturbed too much.
 

Cheers

 


Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2010 15:48:33 +0000
From: sco...@gm...
To: tsh...@li...
Subject: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

Hi all,

In the forums there was some discussion about absences and time off in general:

b_krabina
2010-08-26 16:25:55 CDT
Hi, are there any plans to enhance the absences feature? We would need to be able to add compensation in hours, not only half days. Furthermore Austrian law requires to document the time of starting and ending work. An enhancement of the absences sheet could do that. -Bernhard

tommo4242
2010-08-26 16:36:43 CDT
No plans, but ideas. It should be configurable as to which unit (day/half-day/hour) is used. I need an attendance report too (one which shows the clock in and out times. This could easily be adapted from the absence report. Should I give you access to SVN so that you can get cracking? Cheers

bdrayer
2010-08-27 05:34:30 CDT
Why not use a project with different tasks for managing absences? It would be simpler I think and more flexible

slmi113r
2010-08-27 17:13:57 CDT
bdrayer: you are correct, until HR wants a report that summarizes how much someone was working and how much time off they had. We do exactly what you've suggested, and just this week HR asked for this kind of report, now, because we have all kinds of "time off" tasks within all kinds of projects, I have a lot of work to do to give them this kind of report, and this report will be brittle: changes to projects could easily cause this new report to be wrong on the numbers. Handling time off, absences, etc cleanly, clearly has not been achieved yet.

bdrayer
2010-08-28 01:09:35 CDT
Ok, What we have at my job is one "absences" project under our company name and with many task. After this I created a report that give me total of holidays for the year. Why not use such idea with a fixed id for internal company and absences project and ask the user to change this (the name of the company) when starting for the first time tsheetx? It will allow a quick removal of this data from all reports and have this data to create this reports without hassle. The only problem would be actual installations but with some SQL magic it's possible to do it. I created many reports for our job needs but now I must test if they are compatible with the actual code (It was for the 1.21 version,... Before tsheetx)

So, after letting that simmer on my brain for a while, I think I've had a good idea.  In an attempt to make the system flexible without hanging lots of extra baggage on it, I've added a column to the task table that indicates what "type" of task it happens to be.  By default all tasks are "work" tasks, the other two labels I've allowed are "Paid time off" and "unpaid time off".  And I've added drop down selectors when editing/creating a task, and displayed that info on the task info and task maintenance areas.

My intention is to be able to provide HR a summarized report of how much time people worked, their "paid time off" time and their "unpaid time off" time for any given pay period.

So, is this functionality something that others are interested in?  In other words, should I check this code into the SVN repository?

-Scott
 		 	   		  

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] User Reports

[David T. <tom...@us...>]

No problem, go ahead. 

 

Though one thought here. At some point you may have people who are basic users on one project, but project managers on another. With our user-based ACL this can't be solved (we may need a project-based ACL at point).

 

Cheers
 
> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2010 14:51:18 +1000
> From: pal...@gm...
> To: tsh...@li...
> Subject: [Tsheetx-developers] User Reports
> 
> On another topic, Reports - User Report - Generate Monthly.
> 
> If I log in as a basic user, I can see details of the time spent by 
> others on projects that otherwise I would not have access to.
> 
> If no-one has any objections, I would like to tighten up the code here 
> to restrict basic users to seeing only their projects and times.
> 
> Peter
 		 	   		  

[Tsheetx-developers] User Reports

[Peter L. <pal...@gm...>]

On another topic, Reports - User Report - Generate Monthly.

If I log in as a basic user, I can see details of the time spent by 
others on projects that otherwise I would not have access to.

If no-one has any objections, I would like to tighten up the code here 
to restrict basic users to seeing only their projects and times.

Peter

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[Scott M. <sco...@gm...>]

Mmm, and now we're crossing into a topic that I've thought a lot about:  Why
can't tasks be part of multiple projects?

Would that help eliminate the need to have multiple hierarchies of
categories that would be otherwise needed to create reports for the bean
counters?

Thinking through it further I'm not convinced of this, but it would
certainly make project creation a lot less work for the admins, just select
which tasks that project should be able to use.  And the need to create new
tasks would diminish greatly.

So, how could we go about allowing admins create their own hierarchy of
categories for various reports?

-Scott


On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 5:45 PM, jnb <ja...@jn...> wrote:

> On Fri, 2010-09-03 at 15:48 +0000, Scott Miller wrote:
> > So, after letting that simmer on my brain for a while, I think I've had a
> good idea.  In an attempt to make the system flexible without hanging lots
> of extra baggage on it, I've added a column to the task table that indicates
> what "type" of task it happens to be.  By default all tasks are "work"
> tasks, the other two labels I've allowed are "Paid time off" and "unpaid
> time off".  And I've added drop down selectors when editing/creating a task,
> and displayed that info on the task info and task maintenance areas.
> >
> > My intention is to be able to provide HR a summarized report of how much
> time people worked, their "paid time off" time and their "unpaid time off"
> time for any given pay period.
> >
> > So, is this functionality something that others are interested in?  In
> other words, should I check this code into the SVN repository?
>
> I'd be interested in that but also be interested in a further breakdown.
> Specifically I have certain categories of tasks that are common across
> multiple projects. So, for example, I might have projects for a dozen
> different clients but they all have tasks which fall into categories of
> planning, coding, testing, deployment, praise or the uninvolved, blame
> for the innocent etc.
>
> I was looking at adding a 'task category' property so that I could then
> report across multiple projects and tasks to know what proportion of
> time is spent on support etc. Your HR 'work' report would then become a
> report on all tasks which are not 'paid time off' or 'unpaid time off'
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
>
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
> _______________________________________________
> Tsheetx-developers mailing list
> Tsh...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/tsheetx-developers
>

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Hierarchical task lists

[jnb <ja...@jn...>]

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2010 10:32:01 -0500
From: "Scott Miller" <Sco...@pr...>
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 10:32:01 Scott wrote:

I believe the timesheet system should be a flexible tool that doesn't
"get in the way" when people use it.  Therefore, attempting to create
rules around whether tasks can have time entered against them or not,
doesn't seem to be a good idea.

Allowing hierarchical tasks is an attempt to map more closely with an
assumed use of some sort of project flow to help developers and managers
make sense of how a project might be going. I think this would make a
good addition to the timesheet system. As long as everyone agrees there
will be tradeoffs and compromises, like being able to enter time against
non-terminal nodes.

However, if it goes further than that, say by attempting to warp TSNG
into becoming a complete replacement of whatever project system is
currently in use, I personally don't think that would be a good idea.

-Scott


I wouldn't want to see it become a project system in it's own right,
there would be far too much bloat if we tried that my main idea in
looking at hierarchical task lists was just to bring some structure to
long lists of tasks.

The closest feature to a project management tool I had considered was to
add an 'expected duration' property to tasks so that I could get a
report on tasks which overrun their planned duration (or even underrun).

Jarvis

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[jnb <ja...@jn...>]

On Fri, 2010-09-03 at 15:48 +0000, Scott Miller wrote:
> So, after letting that simmer on my brain for a while, I think I've had a good idea.  In an attempt to make the system flexible without hanging lots of extra baggage on it, I've added a column to the task table that indicates what "type" of task it happens to be.  By default all tasks are "work" tasks, the other two labels I've allowed are "Paid time off" and "unpaid time off".  And I've added drop down selectors when editing/creating a task, and displayed that info on the task info and task maintenance areas.
> 
> My intention is to be able to provide HR a summarized report of how much time people worked, their "paid time off" time and their "unpaid time off" time for any given pay period.
> 
> So, is this functionality something that others are interested in?  In other words, should I check this code into the SVN repository?

I'd be interested in that but also be interested in a further breakdown.
Specifically I have certain categories of tasks that are common across
multiple projects. So, for example, I might have projects for a dozen
different clients but they all have tasks which fall into categories of
planning, coding, testing, deployment, praise or the uninvolved, blame
for the innocent etc.

I was looking at adding a 'task category' property so that I could then
report across multiple projects and tasks to know what proportion of
time is spent on support etc. Your HR 'work' report would then become a
report on all tasks which are not 'paid time off' or 'unpaid time off'

Re: [Tsheetx-developers] Working, Time Off, Absences, etc

[Krabina B. <kr...@kd...>]

Hi Scott,

yes, that's interesting, but we have to be able to document not only the paid hours but the actual times. e. g. 9:00 - 17:00 work time, 17:00-18:00 overtime, 19:00-21:30 travel time...

regards,
Bernhard

----- Ursprüngliche Mail -----
> Hi all,
> 
> In the forums there was some discussion about absences and time off in
> general:
> 
> b_krabina
> 2010-08-26 16:25:55 CDT
> Hi, are there any plans to enhance the absences feature? We would need
> to be able to add compensation in hours, not only half days.
> Furthermore Austrian law requires to document the time of starting and
> ending work. An enhancement of the absences sheet could do that.
> -Bernhard
> 
> tommo4242
> 2010-08-26 16:36:43 CDT
> No plans, but ideas. It should be configurable as to which unit
> (day/half-day/hour) is used. I need an attendance report too (one
> which shows the clock in and out times. This could easily be adapted
> from the absence report. Should I give you access to SVN so that you
> can get cracking? Cheers
> 
> bdrayer
> 2010-08-27 05:34:30 CDT
> Why not use a project with different tasks for managing absences? It
> would be simpler I think and more flexible
> 
> slmi113r
> 2010-08-27 17:13:57 CDT
> bdrayer: you are correct, until HR wants a report that summarizes how
> much someone was working and how much time off they had. We do exactly
> what you've suggested, and just this week HR asked for this kind of
> report, now, because we have all kinds of "time off" tasks within all
> kinds of projects, I have a lot of work to do to give them this kind
> of report, and this report will be brittle: changes to projects could
> easily cause this new report to be wrong on the numbers. Handling time
> off, absences, etc cleanly, clearly has not been achieved yet.
> 
> bdrayer
> 2010-08-28 01:09:35 CDT
> Ok, What we have at my job is one "absences" project under our company
> name and with many task. After this I created a report that give me
> total of holidays for the year. Why not use such idea with a fixed id
> for internal company and absences project and ask the user to change
> this (the name of the company) when starting for the first time
> tsheetx? It will allow a quick removal of this data from all reports
> and have this data to create this reports without hassle. The only
> problem would be actual installations but with some SQL magic it's
> possible to do it. I created many reports for our job needs but now I
> must test if they are compatible with the actual code (It was for the
> 1.21 version,... Before tsheetx)
> 
> So, after letting that simmer on my brain for a while, I think I've
> had a good idea. In an attempt to make the system flexible without
> hanging lots of extra baggage on it, I've added a column to the task
> table that indicates what "type" of task it happens to be. By default
> all tasks are "work" tasks, the other two labels I've allowed are
> "Paid time off" and "unpaid time off". And I've added drop down
> selectors when editing/creating a task, and displayed that info on the
> task info and task maintenance areas.
> 
> My intention is to be able to provide HR a summarized report of how
> much time people worked, their "paid time off" time and their "unpaid
> time off" time for any given pay period.
> 
> So, is this functionality something that others are interested in? In
> other words, should I check this code into the SVN repository?
> 
> -Scott
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net Dev2Dev email is sponsored by:
> 
> Show off your parallel programming skills.
> Enter the Intel(R) Threading Challenge 2010.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-thread-sfd
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