I installed the Reduce-snapshot_6658.dmg on an iMac M3 running under macOS 14.5. Unfortunately, I cannot run Reduce from within TeXmacs as their reduce-plugin relies on redpsl.
Having read up on a discussion here on this forum [(https://https://sourcefor
ge.net/p/reduce-algebra/discussion/899365/thread/78d7c6c9e3/)], I understand that getting PSL running on Apple Silicon computers would require a serious redesign of the memory handling of PSL.
So I wonder if this redesign is considered in the near future.
Kind regards, Tilda
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Dear developpers,
I installed the Reduce-snapshot_6658.dmg on an iMac M3 running under
macOS 14.5. Unfortunately, I cannot run Reduce from within TeXmacs as
their reduce-plugin relies on redpsl.
Having read up on a discussion here on this forum [(https://https://sourcefor
ge.net/p/reduce-algebra/discussion/899365/thread/78d7c6c9e3/)], I
understand that getting PSL running on Apple Silicon computers would
require a serious redesign of the memory handling of PSL.
So I wonder if this redesign is considered in the near future.
Kind regards, Tilda
As you observe from the previous postings, Apple made changes to their
operating system which give PSL serious headaches, such that there is no
way that small changes work around the way if which they abandoned support
for some classes of existing software that has been working cheerfully on
Apple and many many other systems for many decades. Their excuse is liable
to be "security", and there is no way of switching off what they have
done, even if it inconveniences users such as yourself.
There is work going on to restructure PSL enough to make it work on the
current macOS. Some of the initial experiments to check the exact
behaviour of the current macOS have shown that it locks things down even
more severely than had been hoped, setting that work back at least a
little. So while it is clear that changes to PSL to respond to what Apple
have done are being "considered" and "designed" there is probably no
reliable prediction for when a solution that is robust, reliable and fully
tested (or even in a state that people can try it out!) will be ready.
One issue with this is that Apple hardware has non-trivial cost and those
of us who work on Reduce do not all have access to any - and Reduce being
free-to-use open source software does not generate a revenue stream that
could be raided to fund purchase of Apple kit for testing. That will tend
to slow things down!!!
It may be that TeXmacs can be asked to use redcsl rather than redpsl.
Well I recall that quite a few years ago I found I could make that happen,
but I am NOT a TeXmacs user or expert or even really enthusiast, so to get
that working it will probably be best if you investigate yourself. If you
get it going I suspect that you would need to submit the adapted plugin to
TeXmacs rather than to Reduce. Well I attach a plugin that possibly
worked back in the days before Reduce became Open Source and so there can
be few guarantees that it still works and it is certain that it would need
review and updating - for instance to used redcsl rather than r38.
Apologies for being cynical and the like about this. The way in which
Apple make changes that hurt like this sets me in a bad mood which all to
easily spreads to all my response!
thanks for your fast reply and the detailed information concerning the severe difficulties of making PSL run on Silicon computers. Yet, the suggested work-around sounds promising.
I will try to adapt your CSL version of the reduce plugin in a month or so, when I have a bit more time at hand, and possibly discuss this issue on the TeXmacs forum. As the your files are GPLed, I assume I can share them there. At any rate, I'll keep you informed.
Kind regards, Tilda
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Anything there that is subject to the GPL is under that license because it
contained material that originated from within TeXmacs which is under that
license. Anything I did and the bulk of Reduce is under BSD terms which
are substantially more liberal. So certainly as far as I am concerned the
small number of not-too-big interfacing files there can be used and
distributed in any way that the TeXmacs people would not object to.
I could readily imagine that the TeXmacs original that those were based on
in the period 2005-8 have been updated within the last 20 years so
adopting their latest versions and retrofitting Reduce customisation will
presumably be called for! Good luck. If you get that working nicely then
if your version was adopted for inclusion along with TeXmacs that would
clearly be tidiest, but failing that please return a copy so it can sit on
the Reduce web-site!
Arthur
On Tue, 28 May 2024, Tilda A. Steiner wrote:
Dear Arthur,
thanks for your fast reply and the detailed information concerning the
severe difficulties of making PSL run on Silicon computers. Yet, the
suggested work-around sounds promising.
I will try to adapt your CSL version of the reduce plugin in a month or
so, when I have a bit more time at hand, and possibly discuss this issue
on the TeXmacs forum. As the your files are GPLed, I assume I can share
them there. At any rate, I'll keep you informed.
Kind regards, Tilda
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Eberhard Schruefer has already done the job of adapting your TeXmacs plugin for the use of more recent version of Reduce. See, [(https:/https://sourceforge.net/p/reduce-algebra/discussion/899363/thread/b197a4ea57/?limit=25#6fd4/)] . And it basically works out of the box – redcsl runs smoothly within TeXmacs.
Thanks for putting me on the right track.
Kind regards, Tilda
If you would like to refer to this comment somewhere else in this project, copy and paste the following link:
Dear developpers,
I installed the Reduce-snapshot_6658.dmg on an iMac M3 running under macOS 14.5. Unfortunately, I cannot run Reduce from within TeXmacs as their reduce-plugin relies on redpsl.
Having read up on a discussion here on this forum [(https://https://sourcefor
ge.net/p/reduce-algebra/discussion/899365/thread/78d7c6c9e3/)], I understand that getting PSL running on Apple Silicon computers would require a serious redesign of the memory handling of PSL.
So I wonder if this redesign is considered in the near future.
Kind regards, Tilda
On Mon, 27 May 2024, Tilda A. Steiner wrote:
As you observe from the previous postings, Apple made changes to their
operating system which give PSL serious headaches, such that there is no
way that small changes work around the way if which they abandoned support
for some classes of existing software that has been working cheerfully on
Apple and many many other systems for many decades. Their excuse is liable
to be "security", and there is no way of switching off what they have
done, even if it inconveniences users such as yourself.
There is work going on to restructure PSL enough to make it work on the
current macOS. Some of the initial experiments to check the exact
behaviour of the current macOS have shown that it locks things down even
more severely than had been hoped, setting that work back at least a
little. So while it is clear that changes to PSL to respond to what Apple
have done are being "considered" and "designed" there is probably no
reliable prediction for when a solution that is robust, reliable and fully
tested (or even in a state that people can try it out!) will be ready.
One issue with this is that Apple hardware has non-trivial cost and those
of us who work on Reduce do not all have access to any - and Reduce being
free-to-use open source software does not generate a revenue stream that
could be raided to fund purchase of Apple kit for testing. That will tend
to slow things down!!!
It may be that TeXmacs can be asked to use redcsl rather than redpsl.
Well I recall that quite a few years ago I found I could make that happen,
but I am NOT a TeXmacs user or expert or even really enthusiast, so to get
that working it will probably be best if you investigate yourself. If you
get it going I suspect that you would need to submit the adapted plugin to
TeXmacs rather than to Reduce. Well I attach a plugin that possibly
worked back in the days before Reduce became Open Source and so there can
be few guarantees that it still works and it is certain that it would need
review and updating - for instance to used redcsl rather than r38.
Apologies for being cynical and the like about this. The way in which
Apple make changes that hurt like this sets me in a bad mood which all to
easily spreads to all my response!
Arthur
Dear Arthur,
thanks for your fast reply and the detailed information concerning the severe difficulties of making PSL run on Silicon computers. Yet, the suggested work-around sounds promising.
I will try to adapt your CSL version of the reduce plugin in a month or so, when I have a bit more time at hand, and possibly discuss this issue on the TeXmacs forum. As the your files are GPLed, I assume I can share them there. At any rate, I'll keep you informed.
Kind regards, Tilda
Anything there that is subject to the GPL is under that license because it
contained material that originated from within TeXmacs which is under that
license. Anything I did and the bulk of Reduce is under BSD terms which
are substantially more liberal. So certainly as far as I am concerned the
small number of not-too-big interfacing files there can be used and
distributed in any way that the TeXmacs people would not object to.
I could readily imagine that the TeXmacs original that those were based on
in the period 2005-8 have been updated within the last 20 years so
adopting their latest versions and retrofitting Reduce customisation will
presumably be called for! Good luck. If you get that working nicely then
if your version was adopted for inclusion along with TeXmacs that would
clearly be tidiest, but failing that please return a copy so it can sit on
the Reduce web-site!
Arthur
On Tue, 28 May 2024, Tilda A. Steiner wrote:
Dear Arthur,
Eberhard Schruefer has already done the job of adapting your TeXmacs plugin for the use of more recent version of Reduce. See, [(https:/https://sourceforge.net/p/reduce-algebra/discussion/899363/thread/b197a4ea57/?limit=25#6fd4/)] . And it basically works out of the box – redcsl runs smoothly within TeXmacs.
Thanks for putting me on the right track.
Kind regards, Tilda