linux-apus-user

I really need a good kernel :-]

[Björn J. <kh...@te...>]

Hi!

I need to know which of the APUS kernels has
inbuilt support for ppp, sound and AGA
support.

When it comes to CVS, I will try a
different version soon, perhaps it
gets better..

Btw. I don't want to use a 2.2 kernel.


-- 

Björn Johansson "The power of open source"

Re: lha homepage

[Robert J. <rob...@st...>]

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, [UNKNOWN] Bj=F6rn Johansson wrote:

> I know that the current maintainer of lha a
> website, but I seems to have lost the link,
> does someone on this list know this?

Google is your friend. A search on "lha amiga" returns
http://lha.warped.com
Is that what you're looking for?

/Robert

Robert Johansson  *  gu...@ha...  *  +46 (0)7 39 8000 39
         In pursuit of a M.Sc. in Computer Science

lha homepage

[Björn J. <kh...@te...>]

Hi!

I know that the current maintainer of lha a
website, but I seems to have lost the link,
does someone on this list know this?


-- 

Björn Johansson "The power of open source"

Re[2]: Getting the source through cvs

[Björn J. <kh...@te...>]

Alan Buxey wrote about Getting the source through cvs:

> hi,
> 
> > I now have CVS installed under AmigaOS.
> > Now I need to know what to do next, I tried what
> > was described on the APUS site:
> > 
> > cvs -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/linux-=
apus login
> > cvs -z3 -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/li=
nux-apus co modulename
> > 
> > What I want to do is to fetch the kernel source so I
> > can build it myself, what of the above shall I change?
> 
> change modulename to the version of APUS kernel you want... which is eith=
er
> 
> 2.2  or 2.4
> 
> ie
> 
> cvs -z3 -d:pserver:ano...@cv...:/cvsroot/linu=
x-apus co 2.4

This gives the output:

cvs [checkout aborted]: reading CVS/Tag: Invalid argument

> 
> alan
>

Hmm, a bug in my CVS perhaps?


-- 

Bj=F6rn Johansson "The power of open source"

Re: DVD support in APUS?

[Geert U. <ge...@li...>]

On 4 Sep 2002, Michel [ISO-8859-1] D=E4nzer wrote:
> On Die, 2002-09-03 at 12:52, Bj=F6rn Johansson wrote:=20
> > Do anyone know if Linux Apus 2.4.18-1 supports
> > a DVD player? If it does, which types of DVD-
> > players is supported?
>=20
> If by 'DVD player' you mean a player application, I don't see why xine =
or
> ogle shouldn't work. But I'm not aware of any APUS machine even nearly
> fast enough for smooth DVD playback.
>=20
>=20
> > I'm currenly in search for xview, do anyone
> > know where I can find this, it seems as the
> > tool xview isn't part of Debian.
>=20
> daenzer@tibook> apt-cache search xview|grep XView                      =
~
> xview-clients - XView client programs
> xview-examples - XView contrib programs
> xviewg - XView shared libraries [libc6]
> xviewg-dev - XView development tools [libc6]
>=20
>=20
> Is this what you're looking for?

XView is not a DVD player, but a widget set from Sun, providing the Open =
Look
theme.

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

						Geert

--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m6=
8k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. =
But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like=
 that.
							    -- Linus Torvalds

Re: DVD support in APUS?

[Michel <mi...@da...>]

On Die, 2002-09-03 at 12:52, Bj=F6rn Johansson wrote:=20
>=20
> Do anyone know if Linux Apus 2.4.18-1 supports
> a DVD player? If it does, which types of DVD-
> players is supported?

If by 'DVD player' you mean a player application, I don't see why xine or
ogle shouldn't work. But I'm not aware of any APUS machine even nearly
fast enough for smooth DVD playback.


> I'm currenly in search for xview, do anyone
> know where I can find this, it seems as the
> tool xview isn't part of Debian.

daenzer@tibook> apt-cache search xview|grep XView                      ~
xview-clients - XView client programs
xview-examples - XView contrib programs
xviewg - XView shared libraries [libc6]
xviewg-dev - XView development tools [libc6]


Is this what you're looking for?


--=20
Earthling Michel D=E4nzer (MrCooper)/ Debian GNU/Linux (powerpc) developer
XFree86 and DRI project member   /  CS student, Free Software enthusiast

Re: Re[2]: APUS kernel with working ppp and sound

[Michel <mi...@da...>]

[ you forgot to CC: the list ;]

On Die, 2002-09-03 at 12:56, Bj=F6rn Johansson wrote:=20
> Michel =3D?ISO-8859-1?Q?D=3DE4nzer?=3D wrote about APUS kernel with worki=
ng ppp and sound:
>=20
> > On Die, 2002-09-03 at 12:19, Bj=F6rn Johansson wrote:
> > >=20
> > > 2.4.18-1 works quite good except that I haven't
> > > been able to enable any modules with this kernel.
> > >=20
> > > I want a kernel which has ppp and sound compiled
> > > in the kernel, since activating modules don't
> > > work on my system.
> >=20
> > You should rather fix that problem. Are your modutils recent enough? If
> > that's not the problem, please provide a bit more information.
>=20
> I currently have modutils 2.4.15-1 installed.

That should do, so what happens when you try to load a module?


--=20
Earthling Michel D=E4nzer (MrCooper)/ Debian GNU/Linux (powerpc) developer
XFree86 and DRI project member   /  CS student, Free Software enthusiast

Re: Updating to woody from CD's

[Andreas <an...@po...>]

Hello David

> Hi,
> I have been unsuccessful getting a 2.4.? kernal to work with my
> system.(A1200+PPC+BVision). PCI probe always causes a panic.
> I can run 2.2.10 but cannot seem to get woody to update from my CD's.
> This is what I am doing, any help would be great. 
> Installing woody straight from the Cd's causes the clock to read 1902
> causing errors to be reported on all the packages, saying the date is
> in the future. I decided to start again.

Hmm, looks like the system gets dazzled by the fact that the packages have
newer dates than the system clock. I guess your hardware clock is gone. Maybe this
problem is a no-brainer: directly after booting into the installer switch to
console 2 into the shell (by pressing alt-F2) or pick the "start a shell" option from the installer
menu (one of the entries at the very bottom of the menu, i.e. you have to
scroll down a lot). Then you type

# date 0904040002

or

# date -s 0904040002

for today's date. The format is as follows 0904: month day, 0400: 4 a.m., 02:
year. And, yes, you have to type it as I did above, the whole string without
spaces!

This should set the system date correctly. Then you can start the
installation by choosing the first menu entry (to switch back to console one
type alt-F1). If you started the shell from the installer menu, theres a hint
on top of it how to exit it.

After the first reboot, you have to do it again of course, before the installation
continues (again, switch consoles).

> I can install a fully working system using my original 2.2r3 CD's.
> (not XFree4)
> When I change my sources list to my new CD set, things start to go
> wrong. I have access to all the packages but when I
> "apt-get upgrade" I have constant dependancy problems that will not be
> put right and I get errors saying that important packages are about
> to be deleted, so I need to confirm that this is ok. I them cancel
> the installation.

# apt-get update
# apt-get dis-upgrade

should do the trick, as Alan pointed out, after changing sources.list. And, yes,
core packages have to be removed, as there are newer ones coming in from
woody. But, try the thing
above with the date setting by hand, this should save you the hassel of this
time consuming two stage installation with potato!

But, if you really want to go all the way from potato to woody, than do not
install any extra packages during potato install, i.e. leave tasksel and
dselect out, do no apting (i.e. do not install anything like XFree86 or gnome,
etc), but directly update and then install all the extra
packages you need (e.g. XFree86, gnome, etc). This will smoothen your update a
lot!!

> Am I going about this in the wrong way or do I _need_ a 2.4.? kernal
> for this upgrade to work.

No, guess not. Plain vanilla i386 woody installation goes with 2.2.x.

> Does woody work with a 2.2.10 kernal?

It should, yes.

If the date/time problem lasts, you should set the time every time you boot
into the system right after startup! If you're geek, you cut out the command
in the boot scripts, where the system updates the software clock from the
hardware clock and writes the time from the soft clock back to the hardware
clock on shutdown. Instead of, you install some kind of command which writes
the current time into a file on shutdown, maybe something like

    date > /root/savedtime

and on startup reads it in with

    cat /root/savedtime | date -s

(beware, no idea if this works like that, I just made it up from now). If
you politely ask folks on debian-user (or debian-devel) to tell you how to do such cool
scripting, and which files you have to cover and how the correct syntax goes,
I guess they are happy to provide you with the answers. Or you maybe just ask
about how to handle a system without working internal clock!

PS: There are some good sites on the net which cover amiga hardware clock
battery replacement, in english, and with pics. Just google for it (maybe I
find the link sometime again).

-- 
Regards,
Andi

Re: Updating to woody from CD's

[Alan B. <al...@ms...>]

hi,

> When I change my sources list to my new CD set, things start to go
> wrong. I have access to all the packages but when I
> "apt-get upgrade" I have constant dependancy problems that will not be
> put right and I get errors saying that important packages are about
> to be deleted, so I need to confirm that this is ok. I them cancel
> the installation.

with your new CD's installed in /etc/apt/lists  (etc etc) have you done
an      "apt-get update"  ?

apt-get dist-upgrade will upgrade your distribution cores before
other stuff.


and yes, sometimes when you update, other packages get removed...its
the way of its workings
 
> Am I going about this in the wrong way or do I _need_ a 2.4.? kernal
> for this upgrade to work.

no.

> Does woody work with a 2.2.10 kernal?

yes.


i foten boot between 2.2.10 and 2.4.x   (2.2.10 supports the
clockport serial......faster downloads/updates)

2.4.13 is my usual 'running' kernel

alan

Updating to woody from CD's

[David J. <jo...@co...>]

Hi,
I have been unsuccessful getting a 2.4.? kernal to work with my
system.(A1200+PPC+BVision). PCI probe always causes a panic.
I can run 2.2.10 but cannot seem to get woody to update from my CD's.
This is what I am doing, any help would be great. 
Installing woody straight from the Cd's causes the clock to read 1902
causing errors to be reported on all the packages, saying the date is
in the future. I decided to start again.
I can install a fully working system using my original 2.2r3 CD's.
(not XFree4)
When I change my sources list to my new CD set, things start to go
wrong. I have access to all the packages but when I
"apt-get upgrade" I have constant dependancy problems that will not be
put right and I get errors saying that important packages are about
to be deleted, so I need to confirm that this is ok. I them cancel
the installation.

Am I going about this in the wrong way or do I _need_ a 2.4.? kernal
for this upgrade to work.
Does woody work with a 2.2.10 kernal?

Regards,

Dave

 ( jo...@co... )

A fool-proof method for sculpting an elephant: first, get a huge
block of marble; then you chip away everything that doesn't look
like an elephant.

DVD support in APUS?

[Björn J. <kh...@te...>]

Hi!

Do anyone know if Linux Apus 2.4.18-1 supports
a DVD player? If it does, which types of DVD-
players is supported?

I'm currenly in search for xview, do anyone
know where I can find this, it seems as the
tool xview isn't part of Debian.


-- 

Bj=F6rn Johansson "The power of open source"

Re: APUS kernel with working ppp and sound

[Michel <mi...@da...>]

On Die, 2002-09-03 at 12:19, Bj=F6rn Johansson wrote:
>=20
> Do you know which of the 2.4.x Apus kernels
> works best?
>=20
> 2.4.18-1 works quite good except that I haven't
> been able to enable any modules with this kernel.
>=20
> I want a kernel which has ppp and sound compiled
> in the kernel, since activating modules don't
> work on my system.

You should rather fix that problem. Are your modutils recent enough? If
that's not the problem, please provide a bit more information.


--=20
Earthling Michel D=E4nzer (MrCooper)/ Debian GNU/Linux (powerpc) developer
XFree86 and DRI project member   /  CS student, Free Software enthusiast

APUS kernel with working ppp and sound

[Björn J. <kh...@te...>]

Hi!

Do you know which of the 2.4.x Apus kernels
works best?

2.4.18-1 works quite good except that I haven't
been able to enable any modules with this kernel.

I want a kernel which has ppp and sound compiled
in the kernel, since activating modules don't
work on my system.




-- 

Bj=F6rn Johansson "The power of open source"

Re: is it possible to turn off hearbeat?

[Andreas <an...@po...>]

Hi Geert, hi Alan

Thanks a lot for your answers!

Alan wrote:
>> I wondered if it would be possible to turn off hearbeat (well just the
>> blinking LED in fact). I have read kernel-options.txt but no luck. Onc=
e
>> someone told me (was it Michel ;) ) that kernels can be compiled witho=
ut
>> heartbeat, but recompiling the kernel is definitely not the answer I w=
ant
>> to hear.. ;)
>=20
> activating the paula sound module should turn off heart-beat automagica=
lly
> :-)

#modprobe dmasound_core
#modprobe dmasound_paula
#modprobe sound

neither of them caused the power led to stop blinking :(.

Geert wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Andreas [iso-8859-1] W=FCst wrote:
>> But it's kind of making me nervous seeing the LED blinking in the corn=
er of
>> my eyes. Btw: AFAIK let the power LED blink is directly coupled with t=
he
>> low-pass filter. Isn't there any danger for it when switching it on an=
d off
>> so often?
>=20
> If you play audio, the heartbeat is automatically disabled to not inter=
fere
> with the sound.

Well, it seems that I not only have to have the modules loaded (I don't
know which of them btw.) but to play some sound too. It seems as you have=
 to
play Bach in repeat mode just to have the led not blinking..

There seems to be really no other option than recompiling the kernel..

> Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

Is this correct EBNF? ;)


--=20
But thanks anyway! Best wishes,
Andi

Re: Problems with 2.4.? kernals

[John L. <ch...@la...>]

Hi Michel

On 28-Aug-02, you wrote:

> On Mit, 2002-08-28 at 17:08, David Jones wrote:

>> Anyway, why should kernal 2.2.10 run ok but not 2.4.?
>> (the kernals all fail after probing for pci hardware.)

> There you are, apparently something causes the Linux PCI code to fail.
> New Cybergraphics drivers or something?

> I wonder if anyone actually needs the PCI support or if we should
> simply disable it in the precompiled kernels...

How about doing what I do, boot from cold with no s-s and run a script
from there, that way nothing on the miggy side gets loaded to cause
problems. It works this way for me, I NEVER boot into wb to run Linux.

Regards
-- 
John

"They say I spread chaos throughout the Universe" - Q

mailto:ch...@la... or mailto:lor...@uk...
http://www.lordofchaos.co.uk ICQ 110130385 
Nick = Chaos A1200 BlizzardPPC 240mhz 060/50 BlizzardVision OS3.9

Re: Problems with 2.4.? kernals

[Michel <mi...@da...>]

On Mit, 2002-08-28 at 17:08, David Jones wrote:

> Anyway, why should kernal 2.2.10 run ok but not 2.4.?
> (the kernals all fail after probing for pci hardware.)

There you are, apparently something causes the Linux PCI code to fail.
New Cybergraphics drivers or something?

I wonder if anyone actually needs the PCI support or if we should simply
disable it in the precompiled kernels...


--=20
Earthling Michel D=E4nzer (MrCooper)/ Debian GNU/Linux (powerpc) developer
XFree86 and DRI project member   /  CS student, Free Software enthusiast

Re: Problems with 2.4.? kernals

[David J. <jo...@co...>]

Hi Andreas,
#>On 28-Aug-02, you wrote:#
#>Well, what have you changed on your system between the working
>2.4.4 and the not working of the same kernel?? #
The point is as I have said in all my previous emails to the list, I
haven't added _*any*_ hardware at all. I am now using some
akppc.datatypes, but Linux had already failed to work before I
decided to install these. I have tried disabling them with no
difference. Anyway, why should kernal 2.2.10 run ok but not 2.4.?
(the kernals all fail after probing for pci hardware.)
#>Why are you not trying to get ppc_wup working? #
I am unsure how to do this. I have installed Warpos4 (version5 is on
3.9) from 3.5 ages ago and am able to run warpos software using the
terminate ppc.library option. Powerup seems to be my default ppc
setup, & ppc_pup has always worked before.
Any ideas where I could find instuctions on how to install the warp
stuff as the default?
As regards Linux, the point I am getting at is, surely there are some
setups that won't run linux and others that will. Obviously something
on my system _must_ (I think) have changed but what it is I am
unsure. It isn't anything major like added hardware or a new
flashrom, but it has caused my linux setup to stop working and it is
very infuriating.
I would like to know what I can do on my miggy that may cause anything
like this to happen again.

Regards,

Dave

 ( jo...@co... )

I have made this letter longer than usual because I lack the time to
make it shorter.
-- Blaise Pascal

Re: is it possible to turn off hearbeat?

[Geert U. <ge...@li...>]

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Andreas [iso-8859-1] W=FCst wrote:
> But it's kind of making me nervous seeing the LED blinking in the corne=
r of my
> eyes. Btw: AFAIK let the power LED blink is directly coupled with the l=
ow-pass
> filter. Isn't there any danger for it when switching it on and off so o=
ften?

If you play audio, the heartbeat is automatically disabled to not interfe=
re
with the sound.

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

						Geert

--
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m6=
8k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. =
But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like=
 that.
							    -- Linus Torvalds

is it possible to turn off hearbeat?

[Andreas <an...@po...>]

Hi

I wondered if it would be possible to turn off hearbeat (well just the
blinking LED in fact). I have read kernel-options.txt but no luck. Once
someone told me (was it Michel ;) ) that kernels can be compiled without
heartbeat, but recompiling the kernel is definitely not the answer I want to
hear.. ;)

It's not that I don't like heartbeat, it's really useful if nothing reacts
anymore, and, gush, look at heartbeat, and you can immediately decide wether
to power-cycle the machine or not. Well, btw. since running debian and kernel
2.4.17, no need to do any hard resets at all! Good team!!

But it's kind of making me nervous seeing the LED blinking in the corner of my
eyes. Btw: AFAIK let the power LED blink is directly coupled with the low-pass
filter. Isn't there any danger for it when switching it on and off so often?

-- 
Thanks in advance, as always, and wish you a good day,
Andi

Re: Problems with 2.4.? kernals

[Andreas <an...@po...>]

Hello David

> Hi,
> I can setup and later launch my Debian system using a 2.2.10 kernal.
> All kernals from 2.4.?> cause a kernal panic after probing for PCI
> hardware. I have previously installed and run a 2.4.4 kernal on the
> same system but they (2.4.? kernals) will no longer boot.
> What can cause a problem such as this?

Well, what have you changed on your system between the working 2.4.4 and the
not working of the same kernel?? Put some funky hardware in it, updated ppc
firmware (aka "flashrom"), etc..?

> I have been sent a 2.4.4 kernal that works for another list member but
> not for me.
> I have tried various other kernals but only 2.2.10 will work.
> I want to upgrade to woody but 2.2.10 seems to have problems with the
> updated files. (ie clock goes funny)
> What could be causing my problem, does ppcboot-pup use any software on
> the Amiga side, libraries etc that might be at fault.
> Again, any help would be great.

Don't think this should be a problem. But if something screws up during the
load stage I could well imagine it wont work that flawlessly (e.g. some
registers are in unpredictable states and so on). Why are you not trying to
get ppc_wup working? WarpUp is included in AmigaOS3.5/3.9 IIRC. And it's
turned on automativelly AFAIR, at least on my system it directly switched from
using ppc_pup to using ppc_wup after updating the OS.

-- 
Greets,
Andi

Problems with 2.4.? kernals

[David J. <jo...@co...>]

Hi,
I can setup and later launch my Debian system using a 2.2.10 kernal.
All kernals from 2.4.?> cause a kernal panic after probing for PCI
hardware. I have previously installed and run a 2.4.4 kernal on the
same system but they (2.4.? kernals) will no longer boot.
What can cause a problem such as this?
I have been sent a 2.4.4 kernal that works for another list member but
not for me.
I have tried various other kernals but only 2.2.10 will work.
I want to upgrade to woody but 2.2.10 seems to have problems with the
updated files. (ie clock goes funny)
What could be causing my problem, does ppcboot-pup use any software on
the Amiga side, libraries etc that might be at fault.
Again, any help would be great.
Regards,

Dave

 ( jo...@co... )

Politicians should read science fiction, not westerns and detective
stories.
-- Arthur C. Clarke

Re: problem booting kernal

[Stefan N. <Ste...@mh...>]

Hi, I don't rellay remember what h/w you had. Do you have any form of PCI
board? I remember having a similar problem with my A1200 (without PCI h/w)
I think I recompiled a minimal kernel without any form of PCI support in
it, can't really remember..

Try to get your hands on an 'minimal' kernel, if you can't find one I can
put mine avalible on the webb or something..


/Cheers...
/shoe - UNIX _IS_ user friendly, its just picky about who its friends are...

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, David Jones wrote:

> Hi,
> I have asked various times, without solving this problem.
> I'm sorry to keep on, but I'm completely stuck without further advise.
>
> I can install and use a 2.2.10 kernal ok but a 2.4.4 kernal seems to
> panic at the point were it probes for pci hardware. ( as per the
> dmseg)
> I have previously had kernal 2.4.4 working with a debian 2.2r3
> installation but no longer.
> I have a 8 CD set of woody and want to install it. I encountered
> problems installing woody with the 2.2.10 kernal.
> I have not done made any major changes on the Amiga side as far as I
> know.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dave
>
>  ( jo...@co... )
>
> Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain.
> -- Lily Tomlin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old
> cell phone?  Get a new here for FREE!
> https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-APUS-user mailing list
> Lin...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/linux-apus-user
>

Re: problem booting kernal

[Daniel P. <cor...@ho...>]

Get the same problem here and haven't found a solution :/ , it seems to be 
kernels that don't decompress in the boothack , but i dunno sorry.

Daniel




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

problem booting kernal

[David J. <jo...@co...>]

Hi,
I have asked various times, without solving this problem. 
I'm sorry to keep on, but I'm completely stuck without further advise.
 
I can install and use a 2.2.10 kernal ok but a 2.4.4 kernal seems to
panic at the point were it probes for pci hardware. ( as per the
dmseg)
I have previously had kernal 2.4.4 working with a debian 2.2r3
installation but no longer. 
I have a 8 CD set of woody and want to install it. I encountered
problems installing woody with the 2.2.10 kernal. 
I have not done made any major changes on the Amiga side as far as I
know. 

Regards,

Dave

 ( jo...@co... )

Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain.
-- Lily Tomlin

kernal problems

[David J. <jo...@co...>]

Hi,
I have previously had a debian 2.2r3 installation wowrking with a
2.4.4 kernal running XFree 3.
For an unknown reason, (probably my fault) my system stopped working
so I decided to upgrade to woody and install that. I bought an 8 CD
set.
Now unfortunately I can't boot a 2.4.? kernal, but 2.2.10 will boot ok
but seems to have problems with woody?
   Do I need to get a 2.4.? kernal up and running or will 2.2.10 do.
I have included 2 dmesg files for the appropriate kernals, and my
install script.
Due to much tinkering I have become very confused using different
boothacks, kernals and root.bin files. I now need to know from
someone with a similar setup to myself what kernal, boothack and any
other req'd files used etc that gets things up and running.
I have tried a woody installation using 2.2.10 but had loads of
"neighbour table overflow" errors. What are these indicating?
Also my built in clock on the PPC reverts back to 1902 for some
reason, but it works ok on the miggy.
The clock problem caused errors when trying to install packages, the
date contained in the .debs was "3767879etc long number" seconds into
the future. This is obviously not good so I have put my installation
on hold until I understand what's going on.
An annoying part is that 2.4.4 has worked for me before!

Regards,

Dave

 ( jo...@co... )

A1200 + PPC 200mhz (040) +BVision (no scsi) CDRom, CDRW
OS 3.5 + Magellan (WBR)

What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
-- Bertolt Brecht