indic-computing-users — Discussing the usage of indian language capable tools

Re: [Indic-computing-users] [LangWorkingGroup] Language Handbook Format

[Kalika B. <ka...@pi...>]

I'd be happy to do the Background and Section 1 bits for any of the 
languages that you'd like me to do.
tnx,
Kalika 

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Keyur Shroff wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am also attaching a format available with me. We can club both the
> formats.
> 
> - Keyur
> 
> 
> --- "Tapan S. Parikh" <ta...@ya...> wrote:
> > 
> > Im attaching in plain text a possible format for the language handbook
> > of the indic-computing project.  
> > 
> > Im working on a draft for the format of the Technology Map that I will
> > take up amongst the Technology Working Group soon.  Ill circulate that
> > shortly.
> > 
> > -- Tapan
> > > 
> > Language Handbook Format Working Draft
> > Indic-Computing Project
> > 22-9-2002
> > 
> > For each language:
> > 
> > Background
> > -----------
> > Some background that would help put the language in appropriate
> > historical and social context.
> > 	- Language History
> > 	- Language Family (Etymology): Which languages is this language derived
> > from and related to.
> > 	- Number of Speakers
> > 	- Geographic Distribution
> > 	- Variants / Dialects
> > 
> > Section 1 Linguistic Analysis
> > --------------------------------
> > Some more in-depth background of the language from a linguistic
> > perspective, with a focus on issues relevant to computing, display and
> > text processing.  
> > 	- List of Writing Systems : A list of different writing systems used to
> > represent the language in text.  For each writing system, one would try
> > to include:
> > 		- Graphemes: the basic graphemes used in the writing system,
> > combination rules, and mapping to semantic characters. 
> > 		- Usage: Usage details (Is it still used?  Where?  For what purpose? 
> > By how many people in what contexts?) 
> > 	- Basic Grammatical Info: Grammatical information about basic sentence
> > structure and grammar rules.
> > 
> > Section 2 Character Encoding
> > -----------------------------
> > 	- List of Encodings:  A list of character encodings to store this
> > language in digital format.
> > 		- Size of a character: (in bits)
> > 		- Code Point / Character Map: Map between code points and semantic
> > characters.
> > 		- Outstanding Issues: Issues with how this encoding represents the
> > language.  Types of issues could include the following:
> > 			- Missing Chars
> > 			- Missing Semantics
> > 			- Missing Processing Rules
> > 			- Redundant / Extra Chars
> > 			- Erroneous Semantics
> > 			- Erroneous Processing Rules
> > 		- Writing Systems / Language Variants Supported: Which variants and
> > different writing systems does this encoding support for the given
> > language.
> > 		- Who created the encoding?
> > 		- Who is in charge of the encoding management and modification process?
> > 		- Software / OS support - What software and OS's support this encoding
> > 			- OS / Network (Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, Windows, Novell, MacOS, etc.)
> > 
> > 			- Databases
> > 			- Programming Language Libraries and IDEs (C, C++, Java, Perl, Python,
> > etc.)
> > 			- Standards (Unicode, ISO 10464, XML, Linux Standards Base, etc.)  
> > 
> > Section 3 Fonts
> > ----------------
> > 	- List of fonts or font families available for this language.  For each
> > font,
> > 		- What type of Font is it? (TTF, Type 1, X Window, OTF, other) 
> > 		- What is the availability?
> > 		- Who is the creator of the font?
> > 		- Who currently manages / develops / owns the font?
> > 		- Is it Open Source?
> > 		- What encodings are supported?
> > 		- What is the glyph set?
> > 		- Brief description of semantic character / glyph mapping
> > 		- Brief description of positioning and substitution issues
> > 		
> > 
> > Section 4 Input Methods
> > -------------------------
> > 	- List of Keyboard Layouts for a language
> > 		- Keyboard Type - keyboard types (hardware) supported
> > 		- Key - Char Mapping - Mapping between keys and code points
> > 		- Usage Information - Information about how the layout is used in
> > practice
> > 			- Prevalence
> > 			- Types of Users
> > 	- Encodings Supported
> > 		
> > Section 5 Text Processing
> > --------------------------
> > Information about the language useful from a text processing (searching,
> > sorting, spelling, etc.) point of view.
> > 	- List of Sort Orders - Different ways the language can be sorted.
> > 	- Searching / Matching Semantics - What it means for one word to equal
> > another.
> > 	- Word Roots
> > 		- Prefix / Suffix Rules
> > 	- Line Break Rules - When to break a line
> > 		- Hyphenation Rules
> > 
> > Section 6 Typography and Display
> > --------------------------------
> > 	- Basics
> > 	- Ligatures
> > 	- Punctuation
> > 	- Justification
> > 	- Issues Related to Multi-Lingual Document Display
> > 	
> > Section 7 Locale Info
> > ----------------------
> > Locale-Specific Information would include info about the following:
> > 	- List of Possible Locales - List of locales the language could be
> > applicable for.  Could refer to a previously described locale.
> > 		- Time - Time Systems
> > 			- Clock Time
> > 			- Calendar
> > 		- Numeric System
> > 		- Measures
> > 		- Currency
> > 		- Salutations
> > 
> > Section 8 XML / HTML Markup
> > ---------------------------
> > - XML: Issues related to including local language text in XML docs
> > - HTML: Issues related to including and displaying text in HTML docs
> > 
> > Section 9 New Areas
> > --------------------
> > A list of people / projects working on each of the following for the
> > language:
> > 	- Text to Speech Support 
> > 	- Voice Recognition
> > 	- OCR Support
> > 	- Natural Language Processing and Machine Translation
> > 
> > Section 10 Language Resources
> > --------------------------------
> > Other important resources regarding the language:
> > 	- Local Language Software Available - Different types of software and
> > systems that support the language in one way or another
> > 	- Organizations - Different organizations, people and institutions
> > interested in the language, either from a computing perspective or not
> > 	- Dictionaries - On-line and Off-line dictionaries for the language
> > 	- Books, Articles, etc.
> > 	- Other Language Links and Resources
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kalika Bali                             Picopeta Simputers Pvt Ltd
Specialist - Language Technology        146 5th Cross
e-mail: ka...@pi...             RMV Ext
phone: (080) 361 0567                   Bangalore - 560080

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: [Indic-computing-users] [LangWorkingGroup] Language Handbook Format

[Keyur S. <key...@ya...>]

Hi,

I am also attaching a format available with me. We can club both the
formats.

- Keyur


--- "Tapan S. Parikh" <ta...@ya...> wrote:
> 
> Im attaching in plain text a possible format for the language handbook
> of the indic-computing project.  
> 
> Im working on a draft for the format of the Technology Map that I will
> take up amongst the Technology Working Group soon.  Ill circulate that
> shortly.
> 
> -- Tapan
> > 
> Language Handbook Format Working Draft
> Indic-Computing Project
> 22-9-2002
> 
> For each language:
> 
> Background
> -----------
> Some background that would help put the language in appropriate
> historical and social context.
> 	- Language History
> 	- Language Family (Etymology): Which languages is this language derived
> from and related to.
> 	- Number of Speakers
> 	- Geographic Distribution
> 	- Variants / Dialects
> 
> Section 1 Linguistic Analysis
> --------------------------------
> Some more in-depth background of the language from a linguistic
> perspective, with a focus on issues relevant to computing, display and
> text processing.  
> 	- List of Writing Systems : A list of different writing systems used to
> represent the language in text.  For each writing system, one would try
> to include:
> 		- Graphemes: the basic graphemes used in the writing system,
> combination rules, and mapping to semantic characters. 
> 		- Usage: Usage details (Is it still used?  Where?  For what purpose? 
> By how many people in what contexts?) 
> 	- Basic Grammatical Info: Grammatical information about basic sentence
> structure and grammar rules.
> 
> Section 2 Character Encoding
> -----------------------------
> 	- List of Encodings:  A list of character encodings to store this
> language in digital format.
> 		- Size of a character: (in bits)
> 		- Code Point / Character Map: Map between code points and semantic
> characters.
> 		- Outstanding Issues: Issues with how this encoding represents the
> language.  Types of issues could include the following:
> 			- Missing Chars
> 			- Missing Semantics
> 			- Missing Processing Rules
> 			- Redundant / Extra Chars
> 			- Erroneous Semantics
> 			- Erroneous Processing Rules
> 		- Writing Systems / Language Variants Supported: Which variants and
> different writing systems does this encoding support for the given
> language.
> 		- Who created the encoding?
> 		- Who is in charge of the encoding management and modification process?
> 		- Software / OS support - What software and OS's support this encoding
> 			- OS / Network (Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris, Windows, Novell, MacOS, etc.)
> 
> 			- Databases
> 			- Programming Language Libraries and IDEs (C, C++, Java, Perl, Python,
> etc.)
> 			- Standards (Unicode, ISO 10464, XML, Linux Standards Base, etc.)  
> 
> Section 3 Fonts
> ----------------
> 	- List of fonts or font families available for this language.  For each
> font,
> 		- What type of Font is it? (TTF, Type 1, X Window, OTF, other) 
> 		- What is the availability?
> 		- Who is the creator of the font?
> 		- Who currently manages / develops / owns the font?
> 		- Is it Open Source?
> 		- What encodings are supported?
> 		- What is the glyph set?
> 		- Brief description of semantic character / glyph mapping
> 		- Brief description of positioning and substitution issues
> 		
> 
> Section 4 Input Methods
> -------------------------
> 	- List of Keyboard Layouts for a language
> 		- Keyboard Type - keyboard types (hardware) supported
> 		- Key - Char Mapping - Mapping between keys and code points
> 		- Usage Information - Information about how the layout is used in
> practice
> 			- Prevalence
> 			- Types of Users
> 	- Encodings Supported
> 		
> Section 5 Text Processing
> --------------------------
> Information about the language useful from a text processing (searching,
> sorting, spelling, etc.) point of view.
> 	- List of Sort Orders - Different ways the language can be sorted.
> 	- Searching / Matching Semantics - What it means for one word to equal
> another.
> 	- Word Roots
> 		- Prefix / Suffix Rules
> 	- Line Break Rules - When to break a line
> 		- Hyphenation Rules
> 
> Section 6 Typography and Display
> --------------------------------
> 	- Basics
> 	- Ligatures
> 	- Punctuation
> 	- Justification
> 	- Issues Related to Multi-Lingual Document Display
> 	
> Section 7 Locale Info
> ----------------------
> Locale-Specific Information would include info about the following:
> 	- List of Possible Locales - List of locales the language could be
> applicable for.  Could refer to a previously described locale.
> 		- Time - Time Systems
> 			- Clock Time
> 			- Calendar
> 		- Numeric System
> 		- Measures
> 		- Currency
> 		- Salutations
> 
> Section 8 XML / HTML Markup
> ---------------------------
> - XML: Issues related to including local language text in XML docs
> - HTML: Issues related to including and displaying text in HTML docs
> 
> Section 9 New Areas
> --------------------
> A list of people / projects working on each of the following for the
> language:
> 	- Text to Speech Support 
> 	- Voice Recognition
> 	- OCR Support
> 	- Natural Language Processing and Machine Translation
> 
> Section 10 Language Resources
> --------------------------------
> Other important resources regarding the language:
> 	- Local Language Software Available - Different types of software and
> systems that support the language in one way or another
> 	- Organizations - Different organizations, people and institutions
> interested in the language, either from a computing perspective or not
> 	- Dictionaries - On-line and Off-line dictionaries for the language
> 	- Books, Articles, etc.
> 	- Other Language Links and Resources
> 
> 
> 
> 



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

[Indic-computing-users] (no subject)

[<ve...@vs...>]

Dear Tapan,

Can this work be done in a distributed fashion with inputs/contributions from Koshy, Pavanajja and others? (Does anyone else on this list volunteer?) I think we need this done at the earliest because based on this we can apportion the next level tasks. 

Venky
=====

ta...@ya... wrote


Im actually not working too much on the Handbook.  I do have some plans
for working on the Technology Map, but they are currently on hold for
the next month or so as I will be working in field under very poor
connectivity so it would be hard to do the neccesary research.  

But around Nov / Dec I hope to start working on the Technology Map and
some other things related to indic-computing.   In the meantime someone
else feel free to take it up.

-- Tapan

[Indic-computing-users] [INFO] Central Institute of Indian Languages

[Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...>]

CIIL has a good knowledge base for Indian languages. This would be lot
helpful in developing the Handbook.

http://www.ciil.org/

http://www.ciil.org/aboutus/index.html

http://www.ciil.org/languages/index.html

Regards,
Karunakar

[Indic-computing-users] OTF ?

[Viveka N. K <vi...@la...>]

Hi all,
  How can I use Opentype fonts ?
  If I use it, what is the size of a character in a file ? Is it double as 
normal characters?  What are the applications, that supports OTF ?

Thanks and Regards 

 Vivek
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
 DON Lab, IITM, Chennai-36, India. Ph:044-2578904, 044-2578353        
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Only weapon we are having from the beginning is BRAIN

[Indic-computing-users] (no subject)

[<ve...@vs...>]

Dear Raj,

Raveesh said that he will check and get back to us. We should nevertheless go ahead with our plans for the OTF workshops. In Mumbai, Prakash Advani is exploring doing a workshop and is speaking to the JJ School of Arts for the same.

Venky
=====


ra...@li... wrote
Venky Hariharan said:

> How much does it cost to design a good looking Open Type Font?

The answer is in 2 parts

How much does it costs to create a good looking comprehensive set of glyphs
How much does it costs to convert the set of glyphs into opentype font

The first part is the domain of an artist and the second can be done my a
computer expert. Creating a font from ground up is a major undertaking and
can take any where from 3 months to years.
Converting to Opentype do not necessarily cost money as we might be able
to get the necessary resources amonst ourselves.
When TUGIndia tried to buy a typeface from PM Hashim, he initially quoted
50,000 for a typeface which was already developed for some one else.
Finally  we managed to bargain it down to 15,000 for a non exclusive right
to modify and redistribute the font. I guess this should give a rough
estimate. You can contact Hashim at  has...@md...
Staying in the same subject, Any progress wrt Opentype workshop by MS? I
have written to Raveesh Gupta, but yet to receive a reply.
raj

[Indic-computing-users] OpenType Hacking

[Baiju M <mal...@ya...>]

Here are some links related to OpenType hacking.

OpenType Specifications :

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/default.htm

Creating and supporting OpenType fonts for Indic scripts :

http://microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/indicot/default.htm


1. PfaEdit -- http://pfaedit.sf.net

2. TTX -- http://www.letterror.com/code/ttx

   Using TTX, OTF font can be dump into XML, then
   then it can edit by using any text editor,
   I think kxmleditor will be usefull(http://kxmleditor.sf.net)

3. Font::TTF -- http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-module/Font

  This perl module will be usefull for perl hackers.

4.FreeType -- http://www.freetype.org/index2.html
 
5. TtfMod -- http://pfaedit.sf.net/TtfMod 


BTW, Malayalam OTF font is available here.

http://malayalamlinux.sf.net/downloads

This font is licensed under GNU General Public License.
This font is created by Jeroen Hellingman using Metafont.
Later N.V Shaji converted it to TTF, and now some GSUB tables 
are added as part of the project under KBip.

Regards,
Baiju M









=====


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

[Indic-computing-users] Re: OTF

[Nagarjuna G. <nag...@hb...>]

On Thu, Sep 26, 2002 at 11:21:55PM +0530, Venky Hariharan wrote:
> One of the great unsolved mysteries of the workshop (at least for me) is the
> following question: How much does it cost to design a good looking Open Type
> Font? If there are concrete numbers and names and contacts of people willing
> develop OTF for us under GPL, please let me know. Before approaching people
> for sponsoring the fonts, I need to have an idea of how much this will cost
> and how much time it will take.
> 

I am speaking to one OTF developer today afternoon,
Will get back to you by evening, or latest tonight.

Nagarjuna

Re: [Indic-computing-users] OTF Costs

[Sayamindu D. <unm...@So...>]

On Thu, 2002-09-26 at 23:21, Venky Hariharan wrote:
> One of the great unsolved mysteries of the workshop (at least for me) is the
> following question: How much does it cost to design a good looking Open Type
> Font? If there are concrete numbers and names and contacts of people willing
> develop OTF for us under GPL, please let me know. Before approaching people
> for sponsoring the fonts, I need to have an idea of how much this will cost
> and how much time it will take.
> 

if u have got the glyphs, it should not take much - just copy-paste in
pfaedit and defining the tables in Volt
i think, there are a number of free (as in free speech) indic fonts
lying around which are not unicode compliant
some of the volunteers can take up those fonts to begin with 
-iti-
sayamindu




-- 
Sayamindu Dasgupta
http://www.peacefulaction.org/sayamindu/
	
If some people didn't tell you, you'd never know they'd been away on
vacation.





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named
above 
and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or
unsuitable 
for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour,
or 
irrational religious beliefs.

If you have received this email in error, you are required to shred it 
immediately, add some nutmeg, three egg whites and a dessertspoonful of 
caster sugar.   Whisk until soft peaks form, then place in a a warm oven
for 
40 minutes.   Remove promptly and let stand for 2 hours before adding
some 
decorative kiwi fruit and cream.   Then notify me immediately by return
email 
and eat the original message.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Indic-computing-users] Hello and Thanks Everybody

[Tapan S. P. <ta...@ya...>]

Im actually not working too much on the Handbook.  I do have some plans
for working on the Technology Map, but they are currently on hold for
the next month or so as I will be working in field under very poor
connectivity so it would be hard to do the neccesary research.  

But around Nov / Dec I hope to start working on the Technology Map and
some other things related to indic-computing.   In the meantime someone
else feel free to take it up.

-- Tapan

Re: [Indic-computing-users] TeX

[Radhakrishnan CV <cv...@ri...>]

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Mita wrote:

> >From report of Tvm workshop :- "TeX can meet many of the demands of
> modern publishing"

> Please, what is TeX?

A language that can be used for text processing, which might involve
generation of output (PDF or PS) for printing and /or web delivery,
presentation (just as powerpoint), or translation to another markup like
SGML or XML, mostly used in the typesetting of documents that involves
lost of math or critical editions that may have multiple footnotes and
diacritical marks. TeX has the following qualities:

* TeX is available in most operating systems.

* Free typesetting system available for an academic, if one opts for
   proprietary equivalent the author or the host institution has to
   spent thousands of dollars (eg., 3B2, InDesign, etc).

* Best for math and other technical documents. The relative ease of
   creating math documents is unparallel compared to other systems
   where one has to remember a lot of keystrokes or play with menus.

* Unlike the popular belief, TeX is also more useful for humanities
   like creating critical editions where one needs several kinds of
   footnotes (cf. edmacs package of Dominik Wujastyk), which no other
   systems support. Diacritical marks are a pleasure in TeX.

* Cross referencing, bibliographic citation, table of contents, list
   of figures/tables, multiple indices are automatically done or
   generated thereby saving a lot of time and hassle.

* Cross platform and total device independence whereas all other
   systems are bound to specific OS or devices.

* Allows the author to concentrate on writing, instead of
   formatting. If one uses any of the word processors or similar
   systems, one is likely to be carried away by the physical
   appearance of the document which might interrupt the train of
   thought, while in TeX the author can go on entering his text matter
   without any waste of time for formatting which TeX does perfectly.

* The commands in TeX are mostly intutive, a few hours of work in TeX
   will make any sane person a happy user than any other system.

* Archival nature of TeX is an important quality which most of the
   authors forget. Dominik narrated his own experience during the
   press conference prior to TUG 2002. Wellcome Foundation published
   one of his books on Ayurveda a few years back. After six years, the
   book was republished in India by Motilal Banarsidas. When the
   Indian publisher asked for the CRC, Dominik wasted only half an
   hour to find the old TeX input files, change the fonts and format
   and recompile it to send the CRC to the publisher. The story would
   have been different if the original inputs were MS Word or similar
   formats.

   The TeXBook of Knuth which was written decades ago and the source
   codes are publicly available can be compiled even now to get the
   TeXBook of the same look and feel.

   Researchers and academics who create documents of their research
   may note the above incident and let them decide the fate of their
   digital copies by choosing unknown and everchanging formats that
   has least respect for backward compatibility.

* Since the input is ASCII, the chances of file corruption is very
   much limited.

* Portability of TeX input: generates identical output in a wide
   variety of computers and operating systems no matter, how and where
   the input is created.

* Conversion to another markup scheme is seamless, although this
   property is available in other systems as well.

* Since TeX is a language, the author can exploit all the
   possibilities offered by the TeX language.

* Most of the user friendliness of word processors (like changing a
   chapter heading format and style, reducing the inter item space in
   a enumerated list, etc) are available in TeX if they choose the
   right class file (eg., memoir.cls).

* TeX enjoys the best support system in the form of several mailing
   lists, news groups, user groups, which no other typesetting system
   can claim.

* TeX has a public repository namely CTAN which is mirrored world wide
   through 30 and odd servers and holds 5 GB TeX packages and related
   software, no typesetting system can come nowhere near this
   phenomenal contributory work.

* TeX maintains strict standards for its primitives like \special,
   directory structure, DVI file structure, etc though TeX Users
   Group, whereas other systems always bring forth surprises every now
   and then.

Please see:

  http://www.tug.org.in/

for more details.

Radhakrishnan

[Indic-computing-users] OTF Costs

[Venky H. <ve...@vs...>]

One of the great unsolved mysteries of the workshop (at least for me) is the
following question: How much does it cost to design a good looking Open Type
Font? If there are concrete numbers and names and contacts of people willing
develop OTF for us under GPL, please let me know. Before approaching people
for sponsoring the fonts, I need to have an idea of how much this will cost
and how much time it will take.

Venky

[Indic-computing-users] From a recent issue of GNULinuxInIndia...

[Frederick N. <fr...@by...>]

 _      _                  _____       _____           _ 
| |    (_)                |_   _|     |_   _|         | |_
| |     _ _ __  _   ___  __ | |  _ __   | |  _ __   __| (_) ___
| |    | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / | | | '_ \  | | | '_ \ / _` | |/ _  \
| |____| | | | | |_| |>  < _| |_| | | |_| |_| | | | (_| | | (_) |
|______|_|_| |_|\__,_/_/\_\_____|_| |_|_____|_| |_|\__,_|_|\__,_| 

CopyLeft2002 * ISSUE02 * JULY 2002 * CIRCULATE FREELY UNDER GNU/GPL LICENCE
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Co-edited by Frederick Noronha and Parag Mehta <pm at linuxindia dot org>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
******************LOCAL LANGUAGE SOLUTIONS FOR INDIA**********************
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From Kerala, Ajay Kumar <kum...@ya...> who is leading an
initiative to make GNU/Linux friendly to the South Indian language of
Malayalam, says: "The toolkit won't be built from ground-up. Technically
speaking, what we propose to do is to develop a renderer for our language.
Specifically, we are looking for a renderer for Pango. Pango is a
generic-engine used with the GTK toolkit. We are moving fast in this
direction. Some code has already been written in this regard.... One of our
project members is in touch with Jeron Hellingman, who has done most of the
studies regarding Malayalam and Unicode. He has offered to use some of his
works for this project, especially in fonts. That is a major help in our
work."
Ajay Kumar adds that in nine months time, "we want to create an atmosphere
were language computing in Malayalam improves". Says he: "We are confident
that once we deliver the basic framework, others will start localizing more
applications in Malayalam."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Problem: India faces a unique local-language computing standardization
and capacity-building problem simply due to the wide variety of regional
and local languages in wide use, and the organizational and regional
obstacles inherent in the effort to standardize this rich variety of
languages. The Strategy: We recommend the creation of a hierarchy of
participatory consortia, which would facilitate broad regional and local
participation in the standardization and development process from a variety
of stake-holders with differing areas of expertise and specialization.  It is
important that these consortia be participatory and inclusive to properly
represent the viewpoint of local developers, users and other stake-holders. 
We recommend the formation of state-level consortia for each regional
language, which should include participants from the following key member
groups: developers, technologists, users/practitioners, linguistic groups...
-- From the Indic-Computing Strategy Document, May 19, 2002 sent in via jace
at pobox dot com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

GNU India Translation Project (GTP) by gnu_india
The localization of GNU/Linux program into the native languages of india the
GNU 's GTP project http://sourceforge.net/projects/gnuindia/
gnu_india at users.sourceforge.net 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Deepti -- A hindi speaking chat robot by Rahul Jindal
Deepti would be a Hindi (National Language of India) speaking bot, on the
lines of Alice (www.alicebot.org). We shall use or develop a hindi TTS for
the output and more frills as time permits.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/deepti/ rahulj at users.sourceforge.net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

itrans by Avinash Chopde: itrans is a package for printing texts in Indian
languages. It uses English-encoded text for input, and it supports
Devanagari, Gujarati, Telugu, Kannada, Bengali, Tamil, Punjabi, and
Romanized Sanskrit. Input files can be in TeX, LaTeX, HTML, or PostScript
format, and Unicode output is supported. http://www.aczone.com/itrans/
avinash at acm dot org
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Reto of LingoTeach (www.lingoteach.org) says he recently read an article on
GNU/Linux in India "with interest". Reto asks: "Do you know where I can get
linux enthusiast volunteers (don't need to be extremely techinical) for
localization to the Indian languages? I am writing LingoTeach, the GPL
language application (www.lingoteach.org)." Contact re...@re...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--
Frederick Noronha * Freelance Journalist * Goa * India 832.409490 / 409783
BYTESFORALL www.bytesforall.org  * GNU-LINUX http://linuxinindia.pitas.com
Writing with a difference... on what makes *the* difference

[Indic-computing-users] Simputer, local languages, content... et al

[Frederick N. <fr...@by...>]

Very interesting debate. Has relevance for our IndicComputing issue
too. FN

From: "Vinay L Deshpande" <vi...@nc...>
On the India-GII list
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 4:28 PM
Subject: [india-gii] Reply to Scott McCollum on his article on Simputer

Dear Pete:

Thanks for forwarding this to me; it shows me that there ARE people who do
not yet understand what the Simputer really is -- the Trust and we all need
to do more to dispel misconceptions.  I do hope my reply to Scott McCollum,
appended below, will help clear his misconceptions.

Best regards,
Vinay

QUOTE

Dear Scott:

Your September 19 article in the World TechTribune
(http://www.worldtechtribune.com/worldtechtribune/asparticles/buzz/bz09192002)
on how the Simputer will NOT bridge the digital divide, has just come to my
attention, and I do feel you should have talked to the developers as well as
some of the actual users, to get a better understanding of the product,
before pontificating about something that you clearly do not understamd.
Typical of some in the developed world to pretend that since they are from
the developed world, they know better than the "natives." Allow me to clear
your misconceptions:

You said, "It's a cheap handheld that runs non standard software which will
not help to bridge the digital divide." First of all, it is not cheap, it is
simply inexpensive.  Cheap today signifies low quality, whereas the Simputer
is a high-quality product that uses state-of-the-art technology and
components.  Secondly, it is based on very standard software, as it uses the
GNU/Linux operating system, which cannot be termed as non-standard by any
stretch of the imagination, unless your definition of standard is Windows,
WindowsCE, PalmOS, or Symbian.  Further, the Information Markup Language
(IML) that has been newly created for the Simputer, is in reality an XML
application, and XML, again, cannot be termed non-standard by any stretch of
the imagination.  In fact, Microsoft, whose software you will perhaps agree
is a standard, are promoting XML as an internet standard.

Nevertheless, using the Simputer's SDK, programs can also be written in C,
which is a current standard.  Also, J2ME is now available on the Simputer,
and J2ME, you will hopefully agree, is yet another current standard.  The
interfaces that the Simputer uses, such as USBn audio, IrDA, and V.90 modem,
are also current standards.

You then say, "by teaching an illiterate nomad how to use a computer that
only other illiterate nomads use, they are not helping to bridge that
digital divide," and "How can anyone honestly expect developing nations to
ever help themselves if the Simputer doesn't actually teach them how the
rest of the world really works?" It is rather presumptuous to think that the
Simputer is only aimed at the illiterate, and further that all illiterates
are nomads.  What the Simputer does do, is to enable even illiterates, and
yes, even the nomads among them, to use information technology as a tool to
do things that matter to them, including accessing the internet for
information at least in their own language, which the Simputer speaks to
them using its built-in local-language text-to-speech facility.  Admittedly,
since they may not know English which you probably consider the only
standard language, the Simputer may not just yet be able to teach them
everything about how the rest of the world works, as some of that
information content may not currently be available in their local language. 
But I dare say that there is a lot of material already available in many
non-English local languages, in India as well as in other developing
countries, which is still accessible to them.  This we consider a good first
step in bridging the digital divide.  Besides, aren't use of handheld
devices and internet access part of "how the rest of the world works?"

By the way, hunt and peck is also how many in the "rest of the world" work,
but I dare say that the illiterate nomads touching pictorial icons is hardly
hunt-and-peck.  In any case, a not-too-distant version of the Simputer will
allow these illiterate nomads to use spoken commands in their own language,
obviating the need for hunt-and-peck.

As for illiterate nomads interacting with other illiterate nomads, aren't
most of the interactions that any individual has, anywhere in the world,
with other individuals in their local area(s)?  Local here could mean a
village, town, city, state, or even country.  For that matter, it doesn't
seem like you yourself cared to interact with the developers of the
Simputer, half way around the world, to learn the facts about it, before
jumping to your own ill-judged conclusions, so why should you expect the
illiterate nomads to not derive any value by interacting with other
illiterate nomads?

Now, let's talk about applications.  True,  users must wait for someone to
develop a specialized application and distribute it before they can enjoy
the Simputer.  But this is also true of any other standard handheld device
if anyone in the developed world too needs an application that is outside
the standard suite of PIM applications.  Yes, a lot of specialized
application software is available on many web sites for the standard
handheld devices currently available in the market, but didn't users of such
devices have to wait when such devices initially appeared, to have them
written by some developer(s) ?  Why should the Simputer be any different? 
In fact, there is already an army of independent developers, worldwide,
which is creating many innovative applications on the Simputer, for bridging
the digital divide, that have real meaning to the lives of those illiterate
nomads as well as their literate counterparts in the cities and towns in the
developing and developed worlds.  One example is a Simputer-based ultrasound
device to help government health workers monitor the health of mother and
foetus among the aboriginal women in the remote villages of Africa where
there is no electricity available for using standard ultrasound diagnostic
equipment used in urban-area clinics or hospitals.  That is bridging the
digital divide, by passing on the benefits of modern digital technology to
poor tribals in caring for their health.

You finally say, "the most glaringly obvious problem of the Simputer is
trumpeted as one of its greatest qualities: portability," as such
portability would make the Simputer vulnerable to easy theft.  No one can
deny that the human temptation to steal exists among all peoples of the
world, whether they live in developed countries or the developing ones.

Why else would computer stores everywhere, including the developed world, do
brisk business in those lockable tethers which they also use in-store,
attached to laptops and handheld devices on display?  The real point that
you seem to have missed, is that by virtue of the smart-card facility, the
Simputer can be shared among a group of persons who can't individually
afford even the low $200 price, while still retaining the privacy of their
data and other information.  And because of such shared ownership, there
will be greater care exercised to prevent theft(s).  The same would be true
of even Simputers which are placed in a village, say, by the government or
even by "progressives" from the West, which, being community property, will
be jealously guarded by the community!  As for the Simputers that would be
in a cyber-cafe-like Simputer Cafe in the village, the owner of the Cafe
will have adequate preventive measures instituted against theft.  All this
does not mean that theft will be totally impossible, but it also doesn't
mean that because of the likelihood of theft owing to its portability, the
Simputer is not suited for use by those poor villagers.  For that matter,
the same poor villagers possess small, easy-to-carry or -pocket items such
as traditional jewellery, farm implements, utensils, etc., which do once in
a while get stolen, but which they do normally know how to protect from
theft, so why should the Simputer be any different?

I am afraid you do need to educate yourself, Scott.

Best regards,

Vinay Deshpande
Managing Trustee
The Simputer Trust

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Oram" <an...@or...>
To: <ind...@li...>
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 5:38 PM
Subject: [india-gii] Critique of Simputer

> > The following article (which came to me across another
> > mailing list) is worth reading carefully. It would be easy
> > to sneer at. ("You're doing nobody a favor by giving them a
> > graphical interface and a mouse.  They've got to learn
> > command-line utilities like everybody else.") The arguments
> > are not presented as well as they could be, in my
> > opinion. But there are several cogent arguments, somewhat
> > hidden.
> >
> >   SIMPUTERS: WHEN TECHNOLOGY DOES _NOT_ BRIDGE THE DIGITAL DIVIDE
> >   [SOURCE: World Tech Tribune, AUTHOR: Scott McCollum]


http://www.worldtechtribune.com/worldtechtribune/asparticles/buzz/bz09192002.asp

> > I would rephrase--and answer--McCollum's objections as
> > follows:
> >
> > 1. Because the Simputer must use non-standard interfaces and
> >    applications, users must wait for someone to develop a
> >    specialized application and distribute it before they can
> >    enjoy it.
> >
> >    Answer: this limitation sets the bar somewhat higher than
> >    other devices, but other users also need, for the most
> >    part, to wait for someone to develop a service or web
> >    site with the material they want. But even limited to
> >    Simputers, a county government or local business that
> >    sees a need could hire a programmer to code up an
> >    application and put it on a smart card. The barrier is
> >    still pretty low.
> >
> > 2. Simputer applications allow Simputer users to talk to
> >    each other. But there's a much wider world they need
> >    access to.
> >
> >    Answer: A lot of research suggests that local
> >    interactions are more common than remote ones. For
> >    instance, people on a company LAN or extended network
> >    tend exchange more interactions with each other than with
> >    people out on the Internet. Universal access by a
> >    community to each other's systems is probably of greater
> >    interest than access to the outside. Nevertheless,
> >    gateways to selected outside services could be designed.
> >
> > 3. The Simputer traps users in baby interfaces, so they'll
> >    never grow into interfaces other people can use.
> >
> >    Answer: design a teaching tool that uses the Simputer to
> >    help people learn more complex systems.
> >
> > 4. Technology cannot be introduced in a vacuum. A social
> >    infrastructure is needed. Thus, introducing $200
> >    Simputers into poor areas will just lead to theft.
> >
> >    Answer: This is actually a sophisticated
> >    argument. Infrastructure is indeed necessary. But if
> >    somebody thinks a Simputer worth stealing, it has proven
> >    its value. People in poor areas have other small,
> >    valuable objects and possess the street smarts to protect
> >    them.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Andy Oram  O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.        email: an...@or...
> > Editor     90 Sherman Street                       voice: 617-499-7479
> >            Cambridge, MA 02140-3233                  fax: 617-661-1116
> >            USA                          http://www.oreilly.com/~andyo/
> > Stories at Web site:
> > The Bug in the Seven Modules     Code the Obscure     The Disconnected
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ___________________________
> > Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR)
> > is the oldest non-profit, mass membership organization
> > working on social impacts of computer technology.

[Indic-computing-users] Re: [ilug-cal] some progress in the bangla OTF issue

[Archan <ar...@ex...>]

Hi Sayamindu,

I tried to look into it but page came blank. Can u tell me how can I see 
it? BTW, if u want, I can help u on OTF [provided u make me know what 
exactly u are doing]. I have written a simple editor which can write 
text in unicode and can save in XML as well as unicode format. I have 
not yet tried it with bangla. Once I have good OTF, I can check it out.

iti
Archan

Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
> Take a look at the
> http://www.peacefulaction.org/bangla.ps
> I am making a OTF for bangla - and the first results are there
> not very clean and nice looking though :(
> the writng was done in yudit and printed to bangla.ps file
> -iti-
> sayamindu
> 

[Indic-computing-users] [ilug-indore] Hindi on Linux console! (fwd)

[Frederick N. <fr...@by...>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Hello Friends,
        Good news 4 you. These days my Linux is talking in Hindi. Even
on the  text mode console, it  prints the date in  Hindi.  Actually I,
with the help of my friend  Rahul made a console Unicode font in Hindi
and the locale of Hindi was already there in Linux so even on the text
console you  can work in Hindi. You  may visit my website.  The URL of
the page for this purpose is:

www.geocities.com/pragya_ip/ashutosh/mycomp/mycomp.html#UTF-8_Linux

Now  I think  LLI should  consider using  UTF-8 instead  of  any other
nonstandard fonts like susha.ttf.

I also  want to pass  a message to  some ilug members that  instead of
discouraging others, try to do some constructive work. We are not here
to impress others but to give and get help from others.

If  you are  interested  in this  you can  contact  me at  any of  the
addresses written bellow.

Yours
Ashutosh Raghuwanshi.

I believe in "The Intellectual Intelligence".
_________________________________________________________

Website            - http://pragya.cjb.net
E-mail(Technical)  - ash...@pr...
       (Personal)   - as...@ho...
       (Just 4 Fun) - a_h...@ya...
Yahoo Messenger    - a_human_been
                      pragya_ip
PGP Public Key     - http://pragya.cjb.net/ashutosh.asc
_________________________________________________________

Re: [Indic-computing-users] RE: [Bengalinux-core] Gnome glossary translation started (fwd)

[Viveka N. K <vi...@la...>]

HAM:}On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 23:01, Ahmed, Taneem wrote:
HAM:}> Hi Sayamindu,
HAM:}> 
HAM:}> Sorry to email again, but something just hit me. As I mentioned in my last
HAM:}> email that we may want to send out the list of words to people, I was trying
HAM:}> to figure out who would be our target audience. Then I realized that the
HAM:}> response will be quite different between Indian Bengali and Bangladeshi
HAM:}> Bengali people. Do you think it would make more sense to do the translation
HAM:}> under bn_IN and bn_BD like en_GB and en_US? 

Yes of course, the bn_IN, bn_BD are depeding upon the languages we are going to 
use in Desktop.  But the thing is to look for the people, for translation.
If Bengali is one language, It is better to generalise the strings which are 
understandable by all.

As of now, tscii people are using 'ta' for tamil, we (indian linux, IITM) are 
using ta_IN for tamil, hi_IN for hindi etc. 
But, some applications such as pine, will accept the name specification as
it is standardized by the i18n.  KDE is supporting the name as we give. 

- Vivek
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 
 DON Lab, IITM, Chennai-36, India. Ph:044-2578904, 044-2578353        
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Only weapon we are having from the beginning is BRAIN

Re: [Indic-computing-users] Fw: indic languages important........

[Hema A M. <he...@la...>]

I am not sure if this answers anything - I do think that this encoding
issue and font based applications will continue to remain for
quite a while.  Unfortunately, until we have applications
running in local languages nobody is going to use the=20
interfaces that we build.   I think we should work towards
solutions in which both encoding and font - are a kind of
localisation.  This is possible in linux and I do think
we should explore this - define standards for interfaces
that applications can use.  An example:

a) Cursor position APIs in X  - could be either encoding
based or glyph based=20
b) Input methods - any encoding based

Both a) and b) could use parse rule files for encoding/
font ...
We could define standards for these.

Although I do agree that it will be good if we could
agree on a particular encoding - in practice this is=20
going to be pretty difficult to enforce.

-hema

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Tapan S. Parikh wrote:

>=20
> I kind of missed some of the exact points, but one irony is that kinds
> of points and applications he is bringing is the exact reason that
> standards-compliance is important.
>=20
> SQL Interpreters, DBs, Compilers.  Chance is sooner or later they will
> support Unicode.  But will they support some font-based or otherwise
> obscure encoding used by some subset of the Indian population?=20
> Unlikely. =20
>=20
> We can get away with writing word processors, email clients, etc. for a
> while but are we really going to start writing our own enterprise DB
> systems and commercial level compilers?
>=20
> but at some point we have to come up with either an engineering or
> policy approach for handling the standardisation and encoding issue if
> people are not happy with Unicode.
>=20
> -- Tapan
>=20
> SQL DBs, Compilers, =20
>=20
> On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:30:04 +0530
> Guntupalli Karunakar <kar...@fr...> wrote:
>=20
> > Whats the opinion of group in this regard ?
> > I will be meeting him when I next go to pune as he is also working on
> > Marathi localisation. From the preliminary info that I got, he is
> > using a Shusha kind of font. Though his implementation may not be
> > standards complaint, but it is still an issue to ponder at.
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > Karunakar
> >=20
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >=20
> > Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:36:31 +0530
> > From: "Somesh Bartakkay" <s4s...@re...>
> > To: <kar...@sh...>
> > Subject: indic languages important........
> >=20
> >=20
> > (ur ref. & this email address is given by shiriish bhagawat)
> >=20
> > respected sir,
> >        i come to know that there was a national level conferance at
> > bangalore on the topic - Indic computing...
> >=20
> > i wanna share the following points:
> >=20
> > 1.weather the implimentation of indic-languages is considered only
> > upto document generation / data presentation or beyond that (e.g.
> > writting programming in indic languages, writting sql statements in
> > indic languages, shell/dos-commands in indic languages etc ) ? becuas=
e
> > most of the problem we are facing now in days regarding this topic ar=
e
> > only due to concideration of indic languages=20
> > only for document genereation..till yet nobody has thought beyond thi=
s
> > except me...i worked over it in proper way.
> > i have developed small library for writting C programming language in
> > devnagari... its an 100 % successful expmt.The entire s/w for windows
> > is ready & for linux is on way to complete.=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > 2.weather the concepts of unicode is accepted by all languages  ?=20
> > 3.here am fwding u a small html page. please read that u will come to
> > know that other cuntries r also fighting with ANSI etc for changing
> > the worldwide std of prog languages and base for fighting is LANGUAGE
> > and SCRIPT, in this page NNI has refused the std of ANSI ..only as
> > their language script is not having the symbols {}, [], # ... so ansi
> > has given options for above symbols...
> > means if u writting c prog is following way , gcc compiles it..
> >=20
> > main()
> > <%
> > printf("haha !!");
> > %>
> >=20
> > please ref below url for more details on the topic above....
> >=20
> >   http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/na1-NNI.html
> >=20
> > 4. am attaching a jpg file with this mail, wich shows a small c like
> > prorgam=20
> > in devnagari script and gcc compiles it with my library.the parallel
> > prog in c is written below
> >=20
> > main()
> > {
> >  int a,b;
> > scanf("%d",&a);
> > b=3Da*a;
> > printf("%d",b);
> > }
> >=20
> > ...... we must have to reach upto that level with n e indic script....
> > i know how to do this...........................for more information
> > contact me,
> > and plz dont furget to tell me if there is n e more conference on thi=
s
> > topic, wanna present few more imp topic s on this subject
> >  if possible plz forword this mail to the persons working in this
> > field..=20
> >=20
> > =20
> > =A7 s.o.m.e.s.h =A7
> > =20
> > Somesh Bartakkay
> > Ph: 02115-23100
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
>=20
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> Indic-computing-users mailing list http://indic-computing.sourceforge.n=
et/
> Ind...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/indic-computing-users
> [Other Indic-Computing mailing lists: -devel, -standards, -announce]
>=20

Re: [Indic-computing-users] Fw: indic languages important........

[Tapan S. P. <ta...@ya...>]

I kind of missed some of the exact points, but one irony is that kinds
of points and applications he is bringing is the exact reason that
standards-compliance is important.

SQL Interpreters, DBs, Compilers.  Chance is sooner or later they will
support Unicode.  But will they support some font-based or otherwise
obscure encoding used by some subset of the Indian population? 
Unlikely.  

We can get away with writing word processors, email clients, etc. for a
while but are we really going to start writing our own enterprise DB
systems and commercial level compilers?

but at some point we have to come up with either an engineering or
policy approach for handling the standardisation and encoding issue if
people are not happy with Unicode.

-- Tapan

SQL DBs, Compilers,  

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:30:04 +0530
Guntupalli Karunakar <kar...@fr...> wrote:

> Whats the opinion of group in this regard ?
> I will be meeting him when I next go to pune as he is also working on
> Marathi localisation. From the preliminary info that I got, he is
> using a Shusha kind of font. Though his implementation may not be
> standards complaint, but it is still an issue to ponder at.
> 
> Regards,
> Karunakar
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:36:31 +0530
> From: "Somesh Bartakkay" <s4s...@re...>
> To: <kar...@sh...>
> Subject: indic languages important........
> 
> 
> (ur ref. & this email address is given by shiriish bhagawat)
> 
> respected sir,
>        i come to know that there was a national level conferance at
> bangalore on the topic - Indic computing...
> 
> i wanna share the following points:
> 
> 1.weather the implimentation of indic-languages is considered only
> upto document generation / data presentation or beyond that (e.g.
> writting programming in indic languages, writting sql statements in
> indic languages, shell/dos-commands in indic languages etc ) ? becuase
> most of the problem we are facing now in days regarding this topic are
> only due to concideration of indic languages 
> only for document genereation..till yet nobody has thought beyond this
> except me...i worked over it in proper way.
> i have developed small library for writting C programming language in
> devnagari... its an 100 % successful expmt.The entire s/w for windows
> is ready & for linux is on way to complete. 
> 
> 
> 2.weather the concepts of unicode is accepted by all languages  ? 
> 3.here am fwding u a small html page. please read that u will come to
> know that other cuntries r also fighting with ANSI etc for changing
> the worldwide std of prog languages and base for fighting is LANGUAGE
> and SCRIPT, in this page NNI has refused the std of ANSI ..only as
> their language script is not having the symbols {}, [], # ... so ansi
> has given options for above symbols...
> means if u writting c prog is following way , gcc compiles it..
> 
> main()
> <%
> printf("haha !!");
> %>
> 
> please ref below url for more details on the topic above....
> 
>   http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/na1-NNI.html
> 
> 4. am attaching a jpg file with this mail, wich shows a small c like
> prorgam 
> in devnagari script and gcc compiles it with my library.the parallel
> prog in c is written below
> 
> main()
> {
>  int a,b;
> scanf("%d",&a);
> b=a*a;
> printf("%d",b);
> }
> 
> ...... we must have to reach upto that level with n e indic script....
> i know how to do this...........................for more information
> contact me,
> and plz dont furget to tell me if there is n e more conference on this
> topic, wanna present few more imp topic s on this subject
>  if possible plz forword this mail to the persons working in this
> field.. 
> 
>  
> § s.o.m.e.s.h §
>  
> Somesh Bartakkay
> Ph: 02115-23100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[Indic-computing-users] Fw: indic languages important........

[Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...>]

Whats the opinion of group in this regard ?
I will be meeting him when I next go to pune as he is also working on
Marathi localisation. From the preliminary info that I got, he is
using a Shusha kind of font. Though his implementation may not be
standards complaint, but it is still an issue to ponder at.

Regards,
Karunakar

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:36:31 +0530
From: "Somesh Bartakkay" <s4s...@re...>
To: <kar...@sh...>
Subject: indic languages important........


(ur ref. & this email address is given by shiriish bhagawat)

respected sir,
       i come to know that there was a national level conferance at
bangalore on the topic - Indic computing...

i wanna share the following points:

1.weather the implimentation of indic-languages is considered only
upto document generation / data presentation or beyond that (e.g.
writting programming in indic languages, writting sql statements in
indic languages, shell/dos-commands in indic languages etc ) ? becuase
most of the problem we are facing now in days regarding this topic are
only due to concideration of indic languages 
only for document genereation..till yet nobody has thought beyond this
except me...i worked over it in proper way.
i have developed small library for writting C programming language in
devnagari... its an 100 % successful expmt.The entire s/w for windows
is ready & for linux is on way to complete. 


2.weather the concepts of unicode is accepted by all languages  ? 
3.here am fwding u a small html page. please read that u will come to
know that other cuntries r also fighting with ANSI etc for changing
the worldwide std of prog languages and base for fighting is LANGUAGE
and SCRIPT, in this page NNI has refused the std of ANSI ..only as
their language script is not having the symbols {}, [], # ... so ansi
has given options for above symbols...
means if u writting c prog is following way , gcc compiles it..

main()
<%
printf("haha !!");
%>

please ref below url for more details on the topic above....

  http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/na1-NNI.html

4. am attaching a jpg file with this mail, wich shows a small c like
prorgam 
in devnagari script and gcc compiles it with my library.the parallel
prog in c is written below

main()
{
 int a,b;
scanf("%d",&a);
b=a*a;
printf("%d",b);
}

...... we must have to reach upto that level with n e indic script....
i know how to do this...........................for more information
contact me,
and plz dont furget to tell me if there is n e more conference on this
topic, wanna present few more imp topic s on this subject
 if possible plz forword this mail to the persons working in this
field.. 

 
§ s.o.m.e.s.h §
 
Somesh Bartakkay
Ph: 02115-23100

[Indic-computing-users] some progress in the bangla OTF issue

[Sayamindu D. <unm...@So...>]

Take a look at the
http://www.peacefulaction.org/bangla.ps
I am making a OTF for bangla - and the first results are there
not very clean and nice looking though :(
the writng was done in yudit and printed to bangla.ps file
-iti-
sayamindu

-- 
Sayamindu Dasgupta
http://www.peacefulaction.org/sayamindu/
	
Depart not from the path which fate has assigned you.





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named
above 
and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or
unsuitable 
for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour,
or 
irrational religious beliefs.

If you have received this email in error, you are required to shred it 
immediately, add some nutmeg, three egg whites and a dessertspoonful of 
caster sugar.   Whisk until soft peaks form, then place in a a warm oven
for 
40 minutes.   Remove promptly and let stand for 2 hours before adding
some 
decorative kiwi fruit and cream.   Then notify me immediately by return
email 
and eat the original message.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: [Indic-computing-users] RE: [Bengalinux-core] Gnome glossary translation started

[Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...>]

On 23 Sep 2002 23:36:36 +0530
Sayamindu Dasgupta <unm...@So...> wrote:

> On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 23:01, Ahmed, Taneem wrote:
> > Hi Sayamindu,
> > 
> > Sorry to email again, but something just hit me. As I mentioned in
> > my last email that we may want to send out the list of words to
> > people, I was trying to figure out who would be our target
> > audience. Then I realized that the response will be quite
> > different between Indian Bengali and Bangladeshi Bengali people.
> > Do you think it would make more sense to do the translation under
> > bn_IN and bn_BD like en_GB and en_US? 
> > 
> 
> hmmm.... important observation - cc-ing to all
> but, going by that argument, we would have to do not only bn_IN and
> bn_BD, but also, bn_CHT (chattagram - my ancestors are from that
> region), bn_MD (midnapore), bn_NB (north bengal) and what not.
> I believe that Dhaka University still recognises the Bengali grammar
> and dialect proposed by Calcutta University (though this is highly
> unfair - sort of cultural and linguistic dadagiri) 
> So, let us go together now - once a bit matured, we can branch out
> to handle the dialectical differences
> 
  You need not worry on all that.  ISO locale naming scheme is (from
man setlocale) is

       A locale name is typically of  the  form  language[_terri-
       tory][.codeset][@modifier],  where  language is an ISO 639
       language code, territory is an ISO 3166 country code,  and
       codeset  is  a  character  set or encoding identifier like
       ISO-8859-1 or UTF-8.  For a list of all supported locales,
       try "locale -a", cf. locale(1).

so bn is language code for Bangla,  territory is the country codes (
IN for India, BD for Bangladesh )
Any further variants within a territory can be denoted by modifier.
 so you could have  bn_IN@chattagram or bn_IN@northbengal , We would
actually be having the largest no. of locales ( around 1600, one for
each dialect , glibc guys will go crazy :)
 Only the minor variations need to be considered  in locale variants.
Assume everything is common first , then branch off when you know the
differences.
 So in India we would be using  bn_IN and in Bangladesh bn_BD, both
may have same locale database & translations. Going by that logic
English users in India should be having default locale  en_IN not
en_US ( its already define in glibc ).

Regards,
Karunakar

[Indic-computing-users] Different bangla versions

[Kaushik G. <kg...@wa...>]

Hi,
From one point of view I guess we'd want to customize as much as possible
- so we'd have bn_bd and bn_in, but I don't know how much more effort this
will all entail. 

We could start out by making bn_bd and bn_in mirrors of some first release
bn, and then have a dictionary of equivalents (i.e I assuming the grammar
is identical, just some words are different like jal and pani) and then
we'd pass the files through this filter and it would replace all bn_bd
words in a bn_in file with the corresponding bn_in words and vice versa...

We ARE going to have a unicode dict right, for the spellings esp... 

-kaushik


On 23 Sep 2002, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:

> On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 23:01, Ahmed, Taneem wrote:
> > Hi Sayamindu,
> > 
> > Sorry to email again, but something just hit me. As I mentioned in my last
> > email that we may want to send out the list of words to people, I was trying
> > to figure out who would be our target audience. Then I realized that the
> > response will be quite different between Indian Bengali and Bangladeshi
> > Bengali people. Do you think it would make more sense to do the translation
> > under bn_IN and bn_BD like en_GB and en_US? 
> > 
> 
> hmmm.... important observation - cc-ing to all
> but, going by that argument, we would have to do not only bn_IN and
> bn_BD, but also, bn_CHT (chattagram - my ancestors are from that
> region), bn_MD (midnapore), bn_NB (north bengal) and what not.
> I believe that Dhaka University still recognises the Bengali grammar and
> dialect proposed by Calcutta University (though this is highly unfair -
> sort of cultural and linguistic dadagiri) 
> So, let us go together now - once a bit matured, we can branch out to
> handle the dialectical differences
> 
> -iti-
> sdg
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sayamindu Dasgupta
> http://www.peacefulaction.org/sayamindu/
> 	
> The meek shall inherit the Earth.  (But they're gonna have to fight for
> it.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named
> above 
> and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or
> unsuitable 
> for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour,
> or 
> irrational religious beliefs.
> 
> If you have received this email in error, you are required to shred it 
> immediately, add some nutmeg, three egg whites and a dessertspoonful of 
> caster sugar.   Whisk until soft peaks form, then place in a a warm oven
> for 
> 40 minutes.   Remove promptly and let stand for 2 hours before adding
> some 
> decorative kiwi fruit and cream.   Then notify me immediately by return
> email 
> and eat the original message.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, send mail to maj...@il... with the body
> "unsubscribe ilug-cal" and an empty subject line.
> FAQ: http://www.ilug-cal.org/help/faq_list.html
> 

[Indic-computing-users] Should be have bn_IN and bn_BD? (was [Bengalinux-core] Gnome glos sary translation started)

[Ahmed, T. <tan...@la...>]

Actually I don't think we can do anything beside bn_IN and bn_BD because IN
and BD are part of a standard for countries, so as long chattagram,
midnapore, or north bengal does not become new countries I doubt we can do
that :)

My concern is some spellings and choice of words as they are quite
different. The other day I was looking at a Bengali book from Kolkata and I
saw the word "????" [opish] for Office. However, in Bangladesh it would be
"????" [offish]. It is more like the difference of "center" and "centre"
between US and British English, the reason we see en_US and en_GB.

I know we are just starting and we can share all the technical knowledge,
but I just have a feeling that the more translators we start to gather from
both countries the more problems will show up. But as you said, and I agree,
for now do it together.

Thanks,
Taneem

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sayamindu Dasgupta [mailto:unm...@so...]
>Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:07 AM
>To: Ahmed, Taneem
>Cc: Ben...@li...;
>ban...@ba...; ilu...@il...;
>ind...@li...
>Subject: RE: [Bengalinux-core] Gnome glossary translation started
>
>
>On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 23:01, Ahmed, Taneem wrote:
>> Hi Sayamindu,
>> 
>> Sorry to email again, but something just hit me. As I 
>mentioned in my last
>> email that we may want to send out the list of words to 
>people, I was trying
>> to figure out who would be our target audience. Then I 
>realized that the
>> response will be quite different between Indian Bengali and 
>Bangladeshi
>> Bengali people. Do you think it would make more sense to do 
>the translation
>> under bn_IN and bn_BD like en_GB and en_US? 
>> 
>
>hmmm.... important observation - cc-ing to all
>but, going by that argument, we would have to do not only bn_IN and
>bn_BD, but also, bn_CHT (chattagram - my ancestors are from that
>region), bn_MD (midnapore), bn_NB (north bengal) and what not.
>I believe that Dhaka University still recognises the Bengali 
>grammar and
>dialect proposed by Calcutta University (though this is highly unfair -
>sort of cultural and linguistic dadagiri) 
>So, let us go together now - once a bit matured, we can branch out to
>handle the dialectical differences
>
>-iti-
>sdg
>
>
>
>-- 
>Sayamindu Dasgupta
>http://www.peacefulaction.org/sayamindu/
>	
>The meek shall inherit the Earth.  (But they're gonna have to fight for
>it.)
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>----------------
>This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named
>above 
>and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or
>unsuitable 
>for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour,
>or 
>irrational religious beliefs.
>
>If you have received this email in error, you are required to shred it 
>immediately, add some nutmeg, three egg whites and a 
>dessertspoonful of 
>caster sugar.   Whisk until soft peaks form, then place in a a 
>warm oven
>for 
>40 minutes.   Remove promptly and let stand for 2 hours before adding
>some 
>decorative kiwi fruit and cream.   Then notify me immediately by return
>email 
>and eat the original message.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>-----------------
>

[Indic-computing-users] RE: [Bengalinux-core] Gnome glossary translation started

[Sayamindu D. <unm...@So...>]

On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 23:01, Ahmed, Taneem wrote:
> Hi Sayamindu,
> 
> Sorry to email again, but something just hit me. As I mentioned in my last
> email that we may want to send out the list of words to people, I was trying
> to figure out who would be our target audience. Then I realized that the
> response will be quite different between Indian Bengali and Bangladeshi
> Bengali people. Do you think it would make more sense to do the translation
> under bn_IN and bn_BD like en_GB and en_US? 
> 

hmmm.... important observation - cc-ing to all
but, going by that argument, we would have to do not only bn_IN and
bn_BD, but also, bn_CHT (chattagram - my ancestors are from that
region), bn_MD (midnapore), bn_NB (north bengal) and what not.
I believe that Dhaka University still recognises the Bengali grammar and
dialect proposed by Calcutta University (though this is highly unfair -
sort of cultural and linguistic dadagiri) 
So, let us go together now - once a bit matured, we can branch out to
handle the dialectical differences

-iti-
sdg



-- 
Sayamindu Dasgupta
http://www.peacefulaction.org/sayamindu/
	
The meek shall inherit the Earth.  (But they're gonna have to fight for
it.)





-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email is intended for the use of the individual addressee(s) named
above 
and may contain information that is confidential, privileged or
unsuitable 
for overly sensitive persons with low self-esteem, no sense of humour,
or 
irrational religious beliefs.

If you have received this email in error, you are required to shred it 
immediately, add some nutmeg, three egg whites and a dessertspoonful of 
caster sugar.   Whisk until soft peaks form, then place in a a warm oven
for 
40 minutes.   Remove promptly and let stand for 2 hours before adding
some 
decorative kiwi fruit and cream.   Then notify me immediately by return
email 
and eat the original message.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------