indic-computing-users — Discussing the usage of indian language capable tools

[Indic-computing-users] [Indic-Computing-announce] First National OpenType Font Workshop

[Tapan S. P. <ta...@ya...>]

Indic-Computing Consortium announces
------------------------------------------------

PDF Announcement: http://www.ekgaon.com/~vijay/otf-workshop.pdf

First National OpenType Font Workshop

Date: (probable dates) 28th to 30th March 2003
Venue: PESIT, Bangalore

Sponsors:

PESIT, Bangalore
Vishwa Kannada, Bangalore
DeepRoot Linux Pvt. Ltd, Bangalore
Chattisgarh Infotech Promotion Society, Raipur
Indlinux.org, Mumbai
ekgaon technologies pvt. ltd, Madurai

Indic-Computing Consortium:

The Indic-Computing Consortium is an initiative of software developers,
businesses and academic institutions to help evolve appropriate
standards, resources and technologies for the Indic-Computing community.

The Indic-Computing Consortium is designed as a national-level
participatory organisation that serves as a common forum for discussion,
information exchange and advocacy on behalf of all parties interested in
the development of Indian Language Computing. The consortium aims to
make true access of computing possible for Indian people by enabling
support in local language.

A framework is being built for creation of a hierarchy of participatory
consortia, which would facilitate broad regional and local participation
in the standardization and development process from a variety of
stakeholders with differing areas of expertise and specialization. It is
aimed that these consortia be participatory and inclusive to properly
represent the viewpoint of local developers, users and other
stakeholders. In step two, Indic-Computing Consortium would encourage &
support formation of state-level consortia for each regional language,
which could include participants from the following key member groups:

- Developers: Software developers and managers developing local-language
tools
- Technologists: Academics and other experts in encoding and
representation issues
- Users / Practitioners: Government agencies, publishers, NGOs and other
major users of local-language software
- Linguistic Groups: Academics and other experts of the linguistic
features of a language and it's script

Working closely with the State Government, this state-level consortium
would serve as the representative body for deciding standards and other
technical decisions for computing in a given regional language. The
major roles to be carried out by the state-level consortium would be as
follows:

- Discuss various technical, linguistic and practical issues related to
computing in the regional language
- Serve as a capacity-building and educational resource for small
regional software developers and users
- Publish documents, tools & other materials helpful for local-language
computing and development
- Represent the regional language at National consortium meetings
- Represent the regional language at International Standardization
consortiums and proceedings such as Unicode and ISO

In September 2002 Indic-Computing organised its first National workshop,
which aimed at finding the various problems faced by the developer
communities and issues related to standardization, technical support,
policy and tools. To know more about the consortium, workshops and other
initiatives, visit us at
http://www.indic-computing.sourceforge.net

The workshop:

One of the working groups formed at the first Indic-Computing workshop
was for development of OTF & issues related to language standardization
and representation in international consortium. One of the action point
and agenda for the group was to “Hold OTF training workshop for
developing major Indian language OTF fonts”. Dr. U B Pavanaja took upon
to hold and coordinate this workshop and Mr. Abhas Abhinav proposed to
coordinate for logistics & sponsorship, Mr. G. Nagarjuna proposed to
help coordinate with Akruti for making available fonts to be used for
develop OTF. This group succeeded in its tasks making this workshop
possible, Akruti released some free fonts to be used for conversion to
OTF, which were taken up by some of the language groups (for more
details on the language groups and the major issues being dealt by it
please go through the proceedings of first workshop at our website)

Some of the major concerns raised by the language community were:

i. Developing good look fonts
ii. Development of open source tools for rendering and hinting of OTF
fonts (currently OTF development uses proprietary tools)
iii. Finding font developers for all Indian languages and coordinating
the group
iv. Making available fonts to be converted to OTF

This workshop seeks to address some of these issues and others enclosed
in the workshop program as under. This is the first national workshop on
the subject, we propose to take up more regional workshops in future to
give focused attention to each language, these workshops would be held
all across India in different parts and would hold training programs and
technology demonstration. We invite volunteers who would take upon to
hold these workshops and provide coordination & logistics support. The
Indic-Computing Consortium would provide necessary technical support and
capacity building to these regional groups.

Why OpenType?

OpenType is an extension to TrueType, and uses Unicode as standard for
character encoding. It also provides additional tables for defining rich
set of mappings between characters and glyphs. It also provides for a
having a large glyph set and even glyph variants. All the features
provided by OpenType format can be made use by having a application
independent, preferable system level library with a api interface usable
by applications.

For Indic script processing OpenType tables like GSUB (glyph
substitution) and GPOS (glyph positioning) gives font designer to define
his rules on what conjuncts or combinations could be made available.
Application programmer is relieved of the burden of knowing all the
linguistic part. Also OpenType sort of makes the concept of glyph
standard or font encoding standard redundant, again giving font vendors
freedom to follow their own glyph sets and not really affecting the
application. To summarize OpenType provides lot of benefits to Indic
computing and also renders redundant some issues faced in Indic
computing.

There has been an ongoing debate on whether OTF is right for Indian
Languages. The debate is relevant and contextual also. One of the
perspectives penned by G Karunakar in support of OpenType is here for
participants to explore. However the debate goes on and we invite all to
participate in it on the Indic-computing mailing list. Please go through
the attachment why_otf.txt for more on OTF fonts.

Who can participate & pre-requisites:

• Any developer/company/organization having interest in language
technology and interested to learn development of OTF, understanding of
Unicode and related issues.
• Prerequisites
• Understand how to make a font
• Knowledge of Unicode
• Have a font that it/he/she can use for lab time
• A willingness to keep trying until it/he/she understands
• To get comprehensive information on pre-requisites mentioned above
please go through the following links

• Creating and supporting OpenType fonts for Indic scripts
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/indicot/default.htm

• Building OTF
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/intro.htm

• Details about VOLT
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/developers/volt/default.htm

• Unicode FAQ about Indic
http://www.unicode.org/faq/indic.html

• Unicode code charts
http://www.unicode.org/charts/

How to participate:

i. The workshop is by registration only, last date of registration in
20th March 2003
ii. Participants interested to participate in the workshop should send
there applications to Vijay Pratap Singh Aditya <vi...@ek...>
iii. Application format


• Name
• Organisation
• Communication Address
• Whether participating in individual capacity or representing your
organization
• In either case please write in 200 words your interests and what do
you expect from the workshop
• If there are more then one participant from your organization/group
please provide the numbers and communication address only.

iv. Please send the registration fee (*) (as applicable) by Demand Draft
in the name of “DeepRoot Linux Pvt. Ltd, Bangalore”

• Students - 500.00
• Active contributors to Indic-Computing Mailing lists (#) - 750.00
• Members of GLUGS & open source developers - 1000.00
• Academic & Government Institutions - 1500.00
(Representatives other then students)
• Corporate & other commercial software developers - 2000.00

(*) Participants please note that fee would cover workshop registration,
literature, CD with important font development softwares, lodging and
boarding for three days (also dinner for the night before the workshop
starts).

v. After acceptance, application request (printed) & Registration fee
should be sent to the following address:

DeepRoot Linux Pvt. Ltd.
#377, SFS-407, IVth Phase 64,
Yelahanka New Town
Bangalore – 560 064
Karnataka, India
Ph No. +91 80 856 2896
email: ki...@de...

vi. We have a very small support available for selected participants who
are not able to meet their travel & registration fee. All participants
who are not able to meet the expenses could apply for support from
Indic-Computing Consortium. Each application would be studied for
providing support. Typically we would support students, young developer
(not having financial support), members of GLUG’s and Volunteers;
corporate & other commercial software developers are discouraged to
apply for this support.
vii. Decisions on the applicable fee (#) & necessary support would be
taken by Indic-Computing Consortium and shall be notified to the
applicant.

Contacts:

Participants are advised to contact the following for there queries:

Dr. U B Pavanaja: <pav...@vi...>

Technical clarification, sessions of the workshops, required
preparation, fonts etc

Mr. Abhas Abinav: <ab...@de...>

Logistics, Lodging & Boarding, Venue, Registration fee etc

Mr. Vijay Pratap Singh Aditya: <vi...@ek...>

Workshop registration application, coordination, any other issue not
covered above

Instructions for Participants:

1) The participants are advised to go through the pre-requisites and
equip themselves with necessary knowledge on font & Unicode standard.
2) The staying arrangements are from the evening before the day of start
of the workshop. Dinner would be provided for the night also, for all
participants reaching before 9.00 PM only.
3) The lodging & boarding provided by PESIT is in hostels & mess, and is
modest by all means. Participants who wish to opt out of this
arrangement can make there own staying arrangements. Please notify the
same to us, also it is expected that the lunch would be taken by all the
participants irrespective of there place of stay at mess only as there
is not much time available in between the session.
4) The staying arrangement in the hostel is till 3rd day evening, it is
expected that the participants would vacate the rooms by evening.
5) PESIT is at outskirts of Bangalore, participants are expected to make
there own arrangements for local travel, as nothing could be provided by
the organizers.

Venue & how to reach:

PESIT (PES Institute of Technology)
100 Feet Ring Road,
Banashankri – IIIrd Stage, (Off. Mysore Road)
Bangalore
Phone: (080) 672 0007

For participants arriving at Airport, take a prepaid taxi to the above
address, the place is known to the prepaid stand.

Directions from Airport:

Airport Road--->Richmond Circle--->Lalbagh --->Hanumant
Nagar--->HoskarHalli--->PESIT 100 Feet Ring Road

For participants arriving at Railway station & Bus station, best is to
take a prepaid taxi to the above address, the place is known to the
prepaid stand. A Bus is also available

Directions from Railway Station:

Station--->Chamrajpate--->Ashram--->Hanumant
Nagar--->HoskarHalli--->PESIT 100 Feet Ring Road


Workshop program:

Day-1:

09:00 - 09:45 Registration
09:45 - 10:15 Welcome & Inauguration – J Koshy / Director PESIT
10:15 - 10:45 Overview - Pavanaja
10:45 - 11:00 Tea break
11:00 - 11:30 Planning glyph repertoire - Pavanaja
11:30 - 13:00 Introduction to Indian scripts, Character set, tools &
Glyph Design & current trends in fonts- Ravi Pande
13:00 - 14:00 Lunch break
14:00 - 15:00 Testing glyphs, Generating Fonts, Font format - Ravi Pande
15:00 - 15:15 Tea break
15:15 - 17.15 Lab: Define glyphs and fill out repertoire
17.15 - Tea & informal interaction

Day-2:

09:30 - 10:15 Encoding - J Koshy
10:15 - 10:45 Introduction to OTF - Pavanaja
10:45 - 11:00 Tea break
11:00 - 11:30 Open Type Tables - Pavanaja
11:30 - 13:00 Introduction to VOLT - Pavanaja
13:00 - 14:00 Lunch break
14:00 – 15.30 Lab: Open type tables

Day-3:

09:30 - 10:15 Testing - Pavanaja
10:15 - 10:45 Hinting – Video Presentation, from Microsoft training
programme
10:45 - 11:00 Tea break
11:00 - 11:30 Digitally signing the font - Pavanaja
11:30 - 13:00 Fonts on Linux - Karunakar
13:00 - 14:00 Lunch break
14:00 – 15.30 Lab: Open type tables

Special presentations proposed:

a. Sunil Abraham, Mahiti, Bangalore, would arrange for an IPR (cyber
laws) lawyer Lawrence Liang, who would discuss the issue of OTF openness
after understanding the Adobe & Microsoft agreement on release of the
fonts.
b. Development of Otf from Ttf (Akruti) experiences: Nagarjuna
c. Open/free software tools for Otf development: M Arun

best wishes

vijay

-- 

Vijay Pratap Singh Aditya
ekgaon technologies
email: vi...@ek...
website: http://www.ekgaon.com

[Indic-computing-users] Writing Hindi or Tamil on mobile phones

[Guntupalli K. <kar...@fr...>]

Writing Hindi or Tamil on mobile phones

See http://hindustantimes.com/news/181_157163,00040001.htm
----------------------------------------------------------
Indian languages are too complex to make it to the computer keyboard
or make the most of cell phone power, right?

Wrong! A Mumbai-based team of scientists has worked out an innovative
solution using a strong dose of lateral thinking that leverages the
strengths of Indic scripts and their phonetic basis.

It's simply called Simpli.

Durgesh Rao, a research scientist at the National Centre for Software
Technology in Juhu, Mumbai, worked on the "intelligent multi-layered
input scheme for phonetic scripts" together with colleagues Shrinath
Shanghag and R.K. Joshi.

"There's still work to be done to make Simpli a product," Rao told
IANS.

"I conceived the idea on November 21, 2001, in Bangalore and discussed
it with Joshi and Shrinath. It was implemented by Shrinath in
consultation with Joshi and me, and we wrote it up for a conference in
February 2002."

He was referring to the SmartGraphics conference last June in
Hawthorne, New York.

"It was very well received. The scientific phonetic basis of Indic
languages and the intricacy of the scripts was an eye opener for many
in the audience," said Rao.

This solution could be useful for a compact virtual keyboard. It could
also snugly fit into any handheld devices such as the Simputer (a
sharable, low-cost computing device), the PDA (personal digital
assistants) and a cell phone, using a stylus or touch screen.

Rao admitted that it would be "difficult to say" how expensive or
inexpensive the product would be.

"This is not yet a product but a proof of concept prototype. We want
this concept to reach a very wide audience in product form and are
exploring the most effective ways and means to do that," said Rao.

Their work basically offers a new scheme for the input of phonetic
scripts with a stylus on a compact smart soft keyboard. This means
that tiny mobile devices don't need huge keyboards to cater to the
many diverse alphabets that Indian languages and other non-English
languages have.

Instead, by combining groups of related Indian language alphabets
together, a virtual or soft keyboard is used to speedily input
non-English text into tiny computing or mobile devices.

It is widely recognised that computers cater more readily to English
or Roman-script based languages.

This poses special challenges to languages with diverse scripts,
especially the seemingly complex Indian language scripts that have a
greater variety of alphabets and different ways of combining joint
alphabets.

In the new method, phonetically related characters are grouped into
layers and become dynamically available when the "group-leader"
character is accessed or touched.

"This scheme allows rapid input using taps and flicks. We have
developed a prototype for Devnagari which covers the complete script
using just 21 virtual keys, and preliminary tests indicate it is very
easy to use with little or no training," said the team.

In English, a conventional soft keyboard is a graphical representation
of a desktop keyboard on the screen, activated by tapping keys with a
stylus. In a soft keyboard all alphabets are visible on the screen.
The shift key is merely a mechanism to change case.

But, as Rao and team note: "For an equivalent Indic keyboard, many
alphabets are hidden in the shift positions. The hidden alphabets are
hard to guess, which makes such keyboards hard for 'hunt and peck' as
is common for Latin-based scripts."

Their new "smart soft keyboard" has three layers -- the alphabet
layer, the symbol layer and the number layer. It operates in two
modes, the alphabet mode and the numeric mode.
--------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Hating people is like burning down your house to get rid of a rat -
Anon

---------------------------------------------------
* Indian Linux project, www.indlinux.org          *
* Indic-Computing project, indic-computing.sf.net *
---------------------------------------------------

[Indic-computing-users] Mandrake 9 in Tamil (fwd)

[FN <fr...@by...>]

This might be of interest. FN

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Dear Fred,

Any Mandrake 9.0 linux cd available contains tamil
version also into it.

During installion of Mandrake 9.0 ,all we need to do
is to select the language as "Tamil(TSCII) ".

Then when the installation completes , you will find
only tamil in your desktop. 
even the configuration screens also will show in tamil
!

When I installed Mandrake 9.0., after installation it
was a sweet surprise as I saw everything in Tamil and
was trying to make out what means what in english as
my tamil knowledge is limited ;)

I hope you can easily find Mandrake 9.0 cd in India.
If you need let me know your contact details in
private mail. I will send you a copy of the CD by
post.

-Mugunth

--- FN <fr...@by...> wrote:
> Could someone kindly give me the instructions for
> setting up Mandrake 9.0 
> to work in Tamil? Tks, FN
> 


=====
http://ThamiZha.com
Powering Tamil OpenSource

-----
For typing Tamil in any Windows Applications get "e-kalappai" for free
from: http://www.tamil.net/newtamil/ekalappai_1.html

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Indic-computing-users] Taking Indic to Knoppix? Karunakar can you help...

[FN <fr...@by...>]

From: "Kapil Karekar" <kap...@vs...>
To: <lin...@mm...>
Subject: Re: [ILUG-BOM] Regarding RMS visit
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 19:17:31 +0530
Reply-To: lin...@mm...

Hi,

I am co-ordinating with Mr. Shastri to make a customized distribution of 
Knoppix. With Karunakar's help we can have Indian language support 
bundled with it.

I have successfully done the customization part. Now if somebody chips in 
to include the support for Indian languages we can sell this distro 
instead of the Knoppix distro.

Kapil Karekar
Libre Technologies
kapil at libretech.com
091-022-28677305
http://www.libretech.com

[Indic-computing-users] Note from Pune...

[FN <fr...@by...>]

________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
   Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:56:06 -0800 (PST)
   From: Sunil S <sun...@ya...>
Subject: COM : Indian Language on Linux

Hi all,
   Its great to know that Mangalore Linux users are
getting togather in a productive way. First of all I
would like to introduce myself.....I am at present
working in Pune but my native is Karkala and graduated
from NMAMIT, Nitte. Now I would like to tell you that
our company has come out with Indian Language Solution
on Linux.At present we have it for 8 indian Languages.
Please excuse me if this is off topic in the list,
since it is commercial. But anyone who is intrested
can mail me off or on the list or to
shr...@mo....

Regards,
Sunil.

[Indic-computing-users] NEWS: Will computers demolish the Tower of Babel?

[FN <fr...@by...>]

 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?artid=3D25701317

                                     =20
   Will computers demolish the Tower of Babel?
   SHABNAM MINWALLA

   TIMES NEWS NETWORK  [ SUNDAY, OCTOBER 20, 2002 12:14:45 AM ]

   MUMBAI: Is there more to ghar than four walls and a roof ? Does the
   word pyaar have a life outside mushy movie posters? Does khoon mean
   different things to different people? These questions may sound like
   the patter of vacuous veejays rather than the grist of bespectacled
   academia.
   But they are being posed by a group of computer scientists and
   linguists seeking serious answers=E2not just from dictionaryspouting
   scholars but from all Mumbaikars who speak Hindi.
   As part of the Universal Networking Language Project=E2an ambitious
   attempt by 18 countries to make computers multilingual =E2a team of
   researchers at the Indian Institute of Technology (Powai) are busy
   teaching computers Hindi and Marathi. Before these tutorials can be
   delivered, however, they have to strip the language down to its nuts,
   bolts and basic concepts.
   And it is here that help is needed. =E2We will soon be putting up a list
   of Hindi words and usages on the Net. As the language belongs to the
   community at large, we hope people will vet them and make
   suggestions,=E2=E2 says Pushpak Bhattacharyya, a computer science
   professor who heads the Centre for Indian Language Technology
   Solutions at IIT (Powai).
   Adds Debasri Chakrabarti, a doctoral student in linguistics, =E2Language
   undergoes daily change. New words and usages are not found in
   dictionaries,which is why we want native speakers to contribute.=E2=E2
   Those who make their way to the centre=E2s webpage to discuss the
   current meaning of mrig may not realise it, but they are part of a
   worldwide movement to democratise technologies.
   =E2We have to make computers speak our language,=E2=E2 says Jitendra Sha=
h, a
   professor at VJTI. Mr Bhattacharyya, who points to more than 80 per
   cent of Internet content being in English, adds, =E2People who don=E2t
   know English are at a tremendous disadvantage. In 1996, the United
   Nations initiated a project to overcome the language barrier through
   machine translation. If it succeeds, it will be possible for a
   Marathi-speaker to access English websites in his mother-tongue. Or
   for me to send an e-mail in Bengali, which my friend in Tokyo will
   read in Japanese.=E2=E2
   This doesn=E2t sound too arduous a task for a machine that is able to
   run a nuclear power plant and beat Kasparov in chess, except that
   natural languages have always eluded the straitjacket of mathematical
   formulae.
   =E2When the idea of machine translation emerged in the =E250s, it was se=
en
   as a trivial problem which involved little more than programming a
   bilingual dictionary,=E2=E2 says Mr Bhattacharyya. But this simplistic
   notion was soon dispelled. According to a famous story, the English
   sentence =E2The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak=E2 was fed into
   the computer, translated into Russian, and then back into English.
   What emerged was =E2The alcohol is strong but the meat is rotten=E2, he
   says. Half a century later, computers are still unable to grasp the
   subtle difference between =E2I saw the boy with the telescope=E2 and =E2=
I
   saw the boy with the bat=E2. Indeed, to explain =E2childish=E2 and
   =E2childlike=E2 to this most literal of machines is a bit like describin=
g
   crimson and scarlet to a colourblind cow. =E2Translation is an
   unbelievably complex process, and how the human mind functions during
   translation is still unknown,=E2=E2 says Milind Malshe, an IIT professor
   and well-known translator.
   Adds Mr Bhattacharyya, =E2Natural languages are rich in ambiguities and
   implications =E2which computers are unable to handle. So, for example,
   our system finds technical documents simple to translate, but not
   childrens=E2 stories.=E2=E2
   At the heart of this evolving system is Universal Networking
   Language=E2a techno-Esperanto which serves as a steppingstone in the
   translation process. Take, for example, a document that needs to be
   translated from English to Hindi. =E2The computer converts English into
   UNL, and then UNL into Hindi,=E2=E2 explains Mr Bhattacharyya, adding th=
at
   Japanese, Indonesian, Hindi, Arabic, Italian, French, Spanish and
   Portuguese have all been successfully mated with UNL.
   =E2At IIT, we are focusing on Hindi, Marathi and English. Incidentally,
   we are the only research group in the world converting English into
   UNL. This is because countries like the US and England don=E2t see
   machine translation as a priority. As far as they are concerned, the
   rest of the world should learn English.=E2=E2
   In an attempt to chop languages into bytesized pieces, the IIT team
   has distilled 4,500 rules from Hindi. It is also erecting a Hindi
   Wordnet=E2a complex scaffolding of words and related concepts. =E2By
   pairing words with their synonyms, we avoid ambiguities arising out of
   multiple meanings,=E2=E2 explains Mr Bhattacharyya, pointing out that a
   computer confronted with ghar, for example, has no idea which of the
   nine meanings to adopt. =E2However if ghar is paired with gruh, it is
   clear that the word is being used in the astrological sense. If it is
   paired with parivar, it refers to household.=E2=E2
   These maps of words might well help to navigate the unspoken,
   metaphoric depths of language. =E2Few countries will benefit as much as
   India if this dream comes true,=E2=E2 points out Mr Bhattacharyya. =E2Af=
ter
   all, few countries have the number of languages and barriers that we
   do.=E2=E2
   ______________________________________________________________________
  =20

[Indic-computing-users] Devanagari OpenType font "shiDeva"

[Dr. U.B. P. <pav...@vi...>]

From VOLT community discussion group posting-
------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, 
I made a Devanagari OpenType font "shiDeva" to be used in Windows XP 
applicationas. 
You may download the file "Devanagari OpenType.zip" (a small "How to use" DOC file 
included) from 
http://home.t-online.de/home/E.Tremel/Hindi/ 
I've got this font supplied with VOLT OpenType tables, too. 
Kind regards, 
Ernst Tremel

[Indic-computing-users] [tamil-programers] Fw: [e-Uthavi] Re:Review of Kural Tamil Engine

[FN <fr...@by...>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ram S. Ravindran=20
To: e-U...@ya...=20
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 10:49 AM
Subject: [e-Uthavi] Re:Review of Kural Tamil Engine


Thanks LSK for sending info on this new Tamil interface program

A review by Ram Ravindran (Indy Ram)

There are two kinds of foreign language input programs.

One is the editor and the other one is the interface program.

With the editor, you can input in a foreign language in the editor only and=
=20
then

you have to highlight copy and paste it into other applications programs

Suvadi is one such program (editor)

Murasu lite (the freeware version) allows you to input in its own editor

as well as enter in Tamil in some other applications  programs like the=20
browser and so forth.

Please note the commercial version of Murasu is an interface as well a=20
dedicated

editor .. with that you can input in Tamil in other applications as well.

Keyman and its derivative  ekalappai are interface programs.

it allows you to input in Tamil in any application.

Kural Tamil Engine software is something like ekalppai with a few=20
additional features included.

I just downloaded and I am writing a quick evaluation of it.

The URL of the site to download this program is given  below.

1. The downloading and installing are pretty smooth

No problems. I understand it works in all the windows OSes

With e-kalappai some people may have problem with installation in win 98 se=
=20
system

2. It is fairly intuitive

When you click on it from desktop it opens a string of options

actually you will see 5 buttons

the first one is to turn on Tamil or English entry modes. It turns green=20
with Tamil entry mode.

The second button is setup

this program allows you to use TSC, TAB, TAM enoded fonts

(please note TSC is number one)

you can select one of the three encoded fonts

It comes with a sample font of each encoding

It gives you the hot key of alt K to toggle between English and Tamil

Fortunately the keyboard layout is only Anjal Roman phonetic that we are=20
all used to

It is identical to Anjal Roman phonetic layout. So it should be no problem=
=20
to switch.

no other layouts are provided now (like Tamil typewrite, Tamilnet 99, Tamil=
=20
phonetic )

The third button shows you the floating keyboard with Tamil letters

you can peck and type in Tamil using that keyboard also

The fourth one is a rudimentary dedicated Tamil word processor called kavit=
hai

There are couple of nice features in this word processor

one is find and change

Teh spellchecker is not available yet. I am disappointed that it is not=20
there in this

version

other features are yet to be built in

(perhaps the next version will include all that)

The word processor also has a tiny email client just to send out a message=
=20
in Tamil

The word processor is called Kavithai and the mini e-mail client is under

=A7=BE=A1=FC=C8=F5. it called paravai you can use it only to send out mail =
and not receive.

The fifth button takes you to the website where from you can get

installation and configuration info

Over all this suit of Kural Tamil engine is a nice effort.

If you go to the website you can register and get a number for free=20
(personal use)

This version (2.0) does most of the things that ekalappai does

I think they may improve it quite a bit more.

I am looking forward to seeing the spell checker implemented

The authors of this program need to be congratulated for their wonderful ef=
fort

Folks , we should be thankful that we are Tamil language users.

I don't think any other Indian language has so many fonts and interfaces=20
that are

available for free. I am sure those who worked on developing all these=20
tools want to do

this for the growth and development of Tamil language.

To express gratitude to all these folks we need to create more useful=20
knowledge in Tamil

If we don't do that then we don't deserve all these goodies.

Indy Ram




>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>
>KStarSoft is pleased to inform you that Version 2.0 of
>"Kural Tamil Engine" has been released.
>
>What is Kural Tamil Engine?
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
>
>"Kural Tamil Engine" is a keyboard manager that helps to input
>Tamil characters in Microsoft Windows Applications. It can be
>used with MS Word, wordpad, notepad, Internet Explorer, Netscape
>and many more applications. It also helps to chat in Tamil using
>Yahoo, MSN and AIM chat clients.
>
>Salient Features:
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>- Sophisticated Keyboard Manager
>
>- Built groundup, no third party software used.
>
>- Supports TSCII, TAB and TAM encoding.
>
>- Uses state-of-the-art technology and
>advanced skinnable User interfaces.
>
>- Can be used with any TSCII, TAM and TAB fonts
>
>- Supports Romanized phonetic keyboard
>
>- HTML based help system with Tamil KayMap chart.
>
>- Easy to use Onscreen Keyboard and many more.
>
>Also included, "Kavithai" Tamil/English word processor and
>"Paravai" SMTP based email client.
>
>Remember, it is completely FREE for personal or noncommercial use.
>
>Please download Kural from:
>
>http://kstarsoft.home.attbi.com
>
>Thanks,
>
>KStar Software.
>
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>end
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
>download from
>
>http://kstarsoft.home.attbi.com/download.htm
>
>key mapping
>
>http://kstarsoft.home.attbi.com/setup.htm#KeyMap
>
>compatibility with OS and other s/w
>
>http://kstarsoft.home.attbi.com/setup.htm#Comp
>
>configuration
>
>http://kstarsoft.home.attbi.com/setup.htm#Config
>
>tutorial
>
>http://kstarsoft.home.attbi.com/setup.htm#Tutorial
>
>
>=3D


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

tamil computing help pages for e-kalappai and murasu anjal

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/e-Uthavi/files/tchp.html=20

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.=20



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
tam...@eg...

=20

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=
=20

[Indic-computing-users] viewing susha on mozilla/linux

[<al...@ya...>]

Hi!
I'm able to view content in devanagari utf-8 encoding on mozilla/linux
properly.
I recently tried to view some websites that use susha font and realised that I
don't have the font on my machine.
So I downloaded the fonts and moved them to the directory that is in the
FontPath. And then from the directory gave these commands:
cd /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/TrueType/

mkfontdir

[root@localhost TrueType]# xset fp rehash
Xlib: connection to ":0.0" refused by server
Xlib: Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
xset:  unable to open display ":0.0"

What's wrong?
Alok

=====
Alok Kumar
F1, Wireless Monitoring Station Compound,
9th Main, 47th Cross, Jayanagar V Block
Bangalore 560076 India
+91-80-653-8200
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-bangalore-hindi/
Can't see Hindi? http://geocities.com/alkuma/seehindi.html

________________________________________________________________________
Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV.
       visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com

[Indic-computing-users] [Fwd: [Bengalinux-core] imbeng : A gtk input module for Bangla released]

[Sayamindu D. <unm...@So...>]

-----Forwarded Message-----

From: Taneem Ahmed <ta...@ey...>
To: Taneem Ahmed <ta...@ey...>
Subject: [Bengalinux-core] imbeng : A gtk input module for Bangla released
Date: 30 Jan 2003 06:22:33 -0500

Hi All,

bengalinux.org group has released the first public beta version of imbeng,
a gtk input module for Bangla. The package can be downloaded from:

  http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=43331

The README file included in the package has information about installing
and using the package.

Note:

imbeng transliterates phonetic English input into Bangla characters. There
are quite a few programs like this out there, but the beauty of imbeng is
that it will work with any program written with gtk+ (which covers most
of the GNOME programs!).

Special thanks to Dr. Shakil of BornoSoft for all his help, encouragement,
and guidance. imbeng tries to immulate Dr. Shakil's scheme to type Bangla,
but I must admit it is not even close to his software. I am hoping soon
BornoSoft will release an input module that will replace imbeng.

Bugs:

There are quite a few bugs in imbeng. The worst of them are few missing
Bangla characters (e.g. dhoi shunno ra, doi shunno ra, bisharga, etc). The
mapping needs to be refined, and your comments will be most valuable.

Usage:

To test imbeng, open up gedit after installing imbeng. If you open gedit
under a Bangla locale (e.g. bn_BD.UTF-8 or bn_IN.UTF-8), then imbeng will
be already in use. Otherwise, right click on the text field and choose
"Bengali" from the popup menu's "Input Methods" sub menu.

Now you can start typing. Here are the few rules you should remember:
  
* Any vowel at the begining of a word will give you the vowel. However, if
it comes after a consonant will give you the matra form. For example, if
you type "amar" it will give you the proper Bangla characters for it.
  
* Two consonant with out any vowel in between will give you the ligature
for those two consonant. For example, "sondha" will join "n" and
"dh" ("dh" stands for "dho").
  
* The letter 'o' represents the Bangla character "shoray o". It is
important to remember that even if "shoray o" is silent in a word, you
will have to use it. Otherwise imbeng will join the two consonant.

Here are the English to Bangla mapping:
  
  a              shoray a
  a, `           shoray a (if you need to force the letter "shoray a")
  b, 0           bo
  b, h           bho
  c              cho
  c, h           chho
  d              do
  d, `           ddo
  d, `, h        ddho
  d, h           dho
  e              ea (ekar)
  e, `           ea (if you need to force the letter ea)
  e, i           oi (oikar)
  e, i, `        oi (if you need to force the letter oi)
  f              pho
  g              go
  g, h           gho
  h              ho
  i              rosho e
  i, `           rosho e (if you need to force the letter rosho e)
  i, i           dirgho e
  i, i, `        dirgho e (if you need to force the letter dirgho e)
  j              jo
  j, h           jho
  k              ko
  k, h           kho
  l              lo
  m              mo
  n              donton no
  n, `           murdhanno no
  n, g           anushar
  o              shoray o
  o, `           shoray o (if you need to force the letter shoray o)
  o, i           ou
  o, i, `        ou (if you need to force the letter ou)
  o, o           oo
  o, o, `        oo (if you need to force the letter oo)
  p              po
  p, h           pho
  q              ko
  q, h           kho
  r              ra
  r, r           rikar
  s              donto sho
  s, `           talibo sho
  s, h           murdhanno sho
  t              to (as in my name Taneem!)
  t, `           tto (as in taka, tata)
  t, `, h        ttho
  t, h           tho
  u              rosho u
  u, `           rosho u (if you need to force the letter rosho u)
  u, u           dirgho u
  u, u, `        dirgho u (if you need to force the letter dirgho u)
  v              bho
  y              ontosto ja | These two looks a bit weird, but ja phala
  z              ontosto o  | seems to be more useful in 'y'. Will be
                            | improved later


Thanks,
Taneem

If it is true that the only paradises are those we have lost, I know what
name to give the tender and inhuman something that dwells in me today.


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[Indic-computing-users] NCC-2003 Brochure (fwd)

[Hema A M. <he...@la...>]

Here is the brochure on NCC.
-hema

[Indic-computing-users] National Conference on Communications -2003, Jan31-Feb2,2003 IIT Madras

[Hema A M. <he...@la...>]

There is a Tutorial on Indic Computing at this Conference.
This is scheduled for tomorrow (31/January/2003).  The tutorial
starts at 1.30pm and finishes at 5pm.  See www.tenet.res.in/ncc2003.

The Tutorial discusses the development of a multimodal interface
(keyboard-display, speech, handwriting) and multilingual search.

Tutorial cost: Rs.750.

Sorry for this late announcement.
-hema

Re: [Indic-computing-users] Bitstream's release of fonts under Open Source

[Sandip B. <sa...@li...>]

At 07:56 PM 1/25/2003 +0530, you wrote:
> > Bitstream announced the release of 10 of its fonts (10
> > variations of one of its fonts, rather) under open-source,
> > in an agreement with the Gnome Foundation.
> >
> > Any gains from this for the Indic-computing effort?
>
>They are latin based fonts and of no consequence for us (Indic
>ppl).

What about making our Indic Unicode fonts store these glyphs for their 
Latin alphabet space? That way we can use the same
font in some applications which require a single font for their 
display(e.g. xterm?).

- Sandip


---
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandip Bhattacharya
Puroga Technologies
Work: sandip  <@>  puroga.com, http://www.puroga.com
Play:  sandipb <@> bigfoot.com, http://www.sandipb.net
------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Some of you may die ... but that is a sacrifice that I am willing to make"
                - Lord Farquad to his knights in the movie "Shrek"

Re: [Indic-computing-users] Bitstream's release of fonts under Open Source

[Dr. U.B. P. <pav...@vi...>]

> Bitstream announced the release of 10 of its fonts (10
> variations of one of its fonts, rather) under open-source,
> in an agreement with the Gnome Foundation.
> 
> Any gains from this for the Indic-computing effort?

They are latin based fonts and of no consequence for us (Indic 
ppl).

Rgds,
Pavanaja-----------------------------------------------------
Dr. U.B. Pavanaja
Editor, Vishva Kannada
World's first Internet magazine in Kannada
http://www.vishvakannada.com/

Note: I don't worry about pselling mixtakes

[Indic-computing-users] Bitstream's release of fonts under Open Source

[Karthik V. <kar...@vs...>]

Bitstream announced the release of 10 of its fonts (10
variations of one of its fonts, rather) under open-source,
in an agreement with the Gnome Foundation.

Any gains from this for the Indic-computing effort?

Link to story:
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104-982010.html

Regards,
Karthik


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[Indic-computing-users] Re: Fw: [Indic-computing-devel] Technology Map DB Design & Functionality

[Arun M <ar...@fr...>]

> I had started this discussion on -devel but noone had taken it up yet. 
> This is exactly what we want to do.  In fact I was hoping to create an
> on-line form for posting projects and reviews and storing in an On-Line
> DB.

Looks very good. But to start with we need to make some one responsible
to collect data about projects in various languages and make documents
about it. 

regards,
arun.

[Indic-computing-users] Re: Model to build upon...

[Karthik V. <kar...@vs...>]

>Why not an non-profit educational/research trust?

Exactly. I am sure there are many on this list who have had
experience with Societies- they are a pain to manage. With a
Trust, the annual legal compliance issues are orders of
magnitude lesser. Societies have only one thing in their
favour- they are very democratic.

Of course, this is assuming that the incorporation *has* to
take one of these forms:-)

Regards,
Karthik



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[Indic-computing-users] Fw: [Indic-computing-devel] Technology Map DB Design & Functionality

[Tapan S. P. <ta...@ya...>]

Arun -

I had started this discussion on -devel but noone had taken it up yet. 
This is exactly what we want to do.  In fact I was hoping to create an
on-line form for posting projects and reviews and storing in an On-Line
DB.

What do you guys think?

-- Tapan

Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:33:53 -0800
From: "Tapan S. Parikh" <ta...@ya...>
To: ind...@li...
Subject: [Indic-computing-devel] Technology Map DB Design &
Functionality



Hi All,

Please find below proposed functionality and DB Design for the
Technology Map.  Please try to go through it and suggest anything else
we would like to track.  

The types of functionality proposed for the site include:

Projects
--------
-- Add a Project Listing
-- Modify a Project Listing
-- Delete a Project Listing
-- Add a User Comment
-- Add a User Review
-- Add a Editorial Comment
-- Add a Editorial Review
-- Search for a Project According to Platform, Category, Type,
Localisation, etc.

Fonts
--------
-- Add a Font Listing
-- Modify a Font Listing
-- Delete a Font Listing
-- Add a User Comment
-- Add a User Review
-- Add a Editorial Comment
-- Add a Editorial Review
-- Search for a Font According to Type, Language, License, Quality, etc.

Users
-------
-- Register
-- Login
-- Forgot Password

Any more functionality required for the first cut of this?

Here is the DB Design:

Technology Map DB Design
--------------------------

Table: Project
==============
ID
Name: String
HomePage: String
ContactName: String
ContactEmail: String
ProjectStart: Date
LastUpdated: Date
License: {Proprietary | GPL | Shareware | NoLicense | PublicDomain |
Other}
CurrentVersion: String
ProjectType: {Application | API | OS | Distribution | Driver | Other}
ProjectCategory: ForeignID to Category Table
Platform: Foreign ID back to Project Table (Idea is that Linux, Win98,
etc. would all be entities in Project Table)
IndicInputSupport: { Full | Partial | None }
IndicPrintingSupport: { Full | Partial | None }
UnicodeSupport: { Full | Partial | None }
OTFSupport: { Full | Partial | None }
OtherEncodings: String
ShortDescription: Text
LongDescription: Text
Screenshot: (Optional)

Table: ProjectCategory
=======================
ID
Name: String
Parent: ForeignId to ProjectCategory Table (recursive for hierarchy)

Table: ProjectLocalisationMapping
===========================
Project: ForeignID to Project Table
Language: String
Status: { Full | Partial }
LocalisationContactName: String
LocalisationContactEmail: String
LinkToGlossary: String

Table: ProjectUserComment
=======================
ID
FontID: ForeignID to Font Table
UserID: ForeignID to Login Table
Name: String
DateSubmitted: Date
Comment: String

Table: ProjectUserReview
========================
ID
FontID: ForeignID to Font Table
UserID: ForeignID to Login Table
Name: String
DateSubmitted: Date
Comment: String
Usability: Integer
Localisation: Integer
Rendering: Integer
Printing: Integer

Table: Font
===============
ID
Name: String
CreatorName: String
CreatorEmail: String
OwnerName: String
OwnerEmail: String
License: {Proprietary | GPL | Shareware | NoLicense | PublicDomain |
Other}
DownloadLink: String
Current Version: String
Type: {OTF | TTF | Type1 | Macintosh | Other}
Encoding: {Unicode | ISCII | ISFOC | TSCII | Other}
Language(s): String
NumberGlyphs: Integer
Hinted: Boolean
Screenshot: (Optional)

Table: FontLanguageMapping
===================
Font: ForeignID to Font Table
Language: String

Table: FontUserComment
=======================
ID
FontID: ForeignID to Font Table
UserID: ForeignID to Login Table
Name: String
DateSubmitted: Date
Comment: String

Table: User
============
ID
Login: String
Password: Encoded String
FirstName: String
MiddleName: String
LastName: String 
EmailAddress: String
UserRating: integer
NumberOfReviews: integer
UserNotes: Text

Anything to add?

-- Tapan


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-announce]

[Indic-computing-users] Indic computing audit

[Arun M <ar...@fr...>]

Hi,

   
    I feel an audit of local language computing in different indian
languages will be very helpful. 

    May be one or two person from each state make a document based on a
standard template put all available resources in one
place(indic-computing may be). 
(Eg: Free fonts, documents, locales, keyboard maps, IM module code etc)

regards
arun.

Fwd: RE: [Indic-computing-users] Model to build up on...

[FREDERICK N. <fr...@by...>]

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
Subject: RE: [Indic-computing-users] Model to build up on...
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 04:33:43 -0500
From: "ma...@ch..." <ma...@ch...>
To: fr...@by...


Why not an non-profit educational/research trust?

~Manoj

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

-------------------------------------------------------

Fwd: RE: [Indic-computing-users] Model to build up on...

[FREDERICK N. <fr...@by...>]

I hope Dinesh won't mind me sharing this with the list, since it's a 
matter for wider debate. FN

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
Subject: RE: [Indic-computing-users] Model to build up on...
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 05:06:11 -0500
From: "tbd...@se..." <tbd...@se...>
To: fr...@by...


>If one understood right, the main problem is that nobody will
> support (financially) an entity that doesn't have any legal
> standing, or is not incorporated/acccuntable at least in some way.
> Does anyone have ideas of how this need can be taken care of,
> without breaking the commonness of purpose that comes from being
> open-minded and all-inclusive? FN

Is it possible that the credibility for funding comes from
the indic-computing site and its users or the representative
board (if consortium). When one applies for some funding,
they apply as a person or on behalf of the consortium or
even as an organization, that supports the indic-computing
project and can show support/need/approval by the indic-computing
(consortium?). This kind of project backing support can
be verbalized on the indic-computing site and made available
for the funding agency to verify. This might be a poll on
who/how-many of the board think it is essential and can
have their comments of support.
This process can be accounted/handled by the site in a
semi-automated manner.

d.




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RE: [Indic-computing-users] Fwd: article on technical neologisms

[Agastya K. <Aga...@ma...>]

Tapan,

Thanks for the correction on mouse discovery. I did have a comment on your
following statement, which might as well be a summary of your argument:

"In the end, if the more people can understand each other using these
terms, does it really matter how they got there?"

There is a Czech proverb that says, learn a new language, gain a new soul. I
believe this to be true. By learning a new language, one really gains a
completely new perspective. A door opens into a new culture - a gateway
which just can not be crossed by translation. One gets a window in to the
minds and hearts of people who speak the language, and one can communicate
with them such that they can truly express themselves.

If this is true, then it is also true, that by removing a language, you take
away the soul of a culture? Would the Latin American culture really hold its
charm if they Argentines and Brazilians sounded like a New Yorker from
Brooklyn? (no offense intended)

If more people can understand each other using these terms, does it really
matter how they got there? Absolutely. Because the issue is not introduction
of new terms. The issue is reluctance to use and work in the original
language. By not exercising our minds, by not innovating in our language,
we're not just borrowing words - we are eliminating our language. We are
killing our culture's soul. We are giving rise to a generation who will lack
the passion that defines us as a people.

Just my $0.02. I could be wrong.








-----Original Message-----
From: Tapan S. Parikh [mailto:ta...@ya...]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:53 PM
To: ind...@li...
Cc: Aga...@ma...
Subject: Re: [Indic-computing-users] Fwd: article on technical
neologisms



The story that the mouse was invented at PARC is a common mistake.  The
mouse was in fact invented by Douglas Englebart's group at SRI (formerly
Stanford Research Institute) in the mid 1960s and brought to PARC by
researchers from Englebart's group when they shifted to PARC sometime in
the 70s.  From there Steve Jobs took it for Apple.  

In fact mouse was only meant to be an interim term that somehow "stuck".
 I just saw a video about that the other day.

But it does bring up an interesting point about the intrinsic momentum
of terms and language, and how appropriate and/or useful it is to strive
against that.  Should we really fight against the introduction of
English technical terms into Hindi?  Arent these terms just making their
long way back from (in many cases) the original Sanskrit roots?  

For example, how many of you knew that jungle is actually a Hindi word
adopted into English (and not the other way around)?  Do we really care?
 Just like do we really care that the mouse was invented at SRI (and not
PARC and not Apple)?

In the end, if the more people can understand each other using these
terms, does it really matter how they got there?

I by far think the most troubling thing is the subtraction of language,
not this new kind of addition.  If by forgetting old terms and old
languages we are distancing ourselves from great literary traditions and
our accumulations of human knowledge, than that in my mind is a much
bigger problem than whether or not we come up with a new Hindi word for
mouse, remote control or the GUI.  But are the two trends linked? 
Dunno...

-- Tapan


On Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:56:36 +0530
Ravikant <rav...@sa...> wrote:

> 
> Dear Indiccers,
> 
> I liked the following article, written by an expat computer engineer,
> for its refreshingly commonsensical approach to technospeak in a new
> language. I received it in my mail. Enjoy!
> 
> ravikant
> -----------------
> How a Language grows
> Agastya Kohli ( Aga...@ma...)
> 
> 
> I am no linguist. I have not studied the growth and development of a
>  language. I am not an expert in the field. But I use languages. I
>  grew up in an environment, where a language wasn't merely a subject
>  you took in school. When you studied a language, you studied it well.
>  So along with learning a couple of languages, I also learned the
>  nature of languages. How they interact with each other, how they
>  interact with the society, how they change over years, grow, develop,
>  flourish, or alternatively, shrink, loose their shine, diminish, and
>  eventually disappear. No, I didn't have a course in college on the
>  topic, but one makes observations, and takes notes.
> 
> 
> For example, I decided to study a little Spanish. Of course, the
> letter "j"
>  is used extensively in Spanish, but is pronounced almost like an "h".
>  'Jesus' is "hay-soos", and Juan is "hu-aan". So when my teacher told
>  me that the Spanish word for "a young man" is "haw-ven", it sounded
>  like another foreign word to me. But then she wrote it on the board -
>  Joven.
> 
> 
> When you grow up in India, speaking Hindi all your life, it doesn't
> take much to make a Yamuna-Jamuna connection, and all of a sudden,
> Joven looked a lot like "yauvan" - Sanskrit for youth. Sure, a young
> man was called "haw-ven". I don't remember much else from that Spanish
> class, but I do remember joven.
> 
> 
> It didn't take a class in linguistics to make the Yamuna-Jamuna
> connection,
>  or to make a Joven-Yauvan connection.  When you study a language, you
>  study the nature of languages simultaneously. Many languages, both
>  Indian and otherwise interchangeably use the sounds "ya" and "ja"
>  (letters I, Y and J),"ra" and "la", "ka" and "ga". I have a German
>  friend named Katja (pronounced Katya), and a Chinese friend who
>  spells the word "are" as "ay - al - ee". No wonder "badariya" is just
>  a derivative of "badaliya" in Hindi, and "bekaar" and "begaar" mean
>  the same thing.
> 
> 
> And in my opinion, that's how languages grow. Whatever is easier to
> say is what becomes the norm. The concept of "mukh-sukh"
> (mouth-comfort) makes a language add words as variants of themselves.
> 
> 
> Its not just with sounds - its also with word meanings. A language has
> a word for a concept. Something similar rolls around, and the same
> word expands its meaning.
> 
> 
> They had these things called coaches - pulled around by horses. People
> could sit in them and go places. A number of years later, the horses
> have now been replaced by internal combustion engines. So what do they
> call a car in Spanish? A "coche". In English, the word "car" really
> comes from "carriage" - which is something that gets carried. So a
> word has a meaning, a related concept attaches itself to it, and the
> word adapts to accommodate the related concept. That's how languages
> grow. Sure some people called them automobiles, but a car is still a
> car in English - one horsepower, or two hundred.
> 
> 
> Of course, my favorite - sticks of wood with cloth soaked in oil tied
> at one end. They would light the cloth on fire, hold the stick on the
> other end, and walk around with it in dark places. It worked as a
> source of light - they called it a "torch". Fast-forward a few hundred
> years, technology changes, now they have plastic tubes with batteries
> on one side and a bulb on the other. It's a source of light - and yes
> you're right - they called it a"torch". Of course, in America, they
> call them "flash lights". A different society saw a product, was
> inspired by a different way of looking at it, and added another word
> to the language.
> 
> 
> They tell me, that a language that doesn't grow - that doesn't change
> with time will eventually die. And I completely agree with them. But I
> am not sure I understand the definition of "grow" and "change with
> time". The way I see it, a language grows by innovation. When a people
> use a language, they come across something new that needs to be
> communicated; a word gets altered, adapted, changed, to communicate
> the new concept. We  - the community that works and plays with Hindi
> seems to work
>  differently. We don't want the language to innovate. We want the
>  language to borrow. A new concept comes along, usually with a word in
>  English, and without thinking twice about how Hindi would express the
>  same concept, we borrow the word. There are examples all over the
>  place.
> 
> 
> When Xerox first developed a Graphical User Interface (GUI) to use on
> a computer, they also developed a pointing device. It was an
> instrument connected to the computer that controlled an arrow like
> cursor on the screen. You moved the device, it moved the arrow, and by
> clicking the buttons you could provide input to the computer. The
> device was an oblong shaped half sphere, about 4 inches long, with a
> cable that ran to the back of the computer. To some creative mind, it
> looked like a small mouse with a long tail, so they called it a mouse.
> In Spanish, they call it a "ratos" (think rat). In Hindi, we can
> easily call it a "moosa" (Sanskrit for mouse). But its so much easier
> to just call it a "mouse" even in Hindi. Do we not have a word for the
> concept? Why do we need to borrow a completely foreign word for
> something that we already have a word for?
> 
> 
> One afternoon, my two-year-old nephew was sitting in front of a
> computer, looking at the cursor - a solid block on the screen -
> blinking. On, off. On, off. He pointed at it, and said "titlee"
> (butterfly). And I thought to myself, if a cursor looks like a
> butterfly to a two year old, that is what we should call it in Hindi.
> Titlee. After all, why is a mouse acceptable, but not a much prettier
> butterfly.
> 
> 
> I've always referred to my TV's remote control as "bandook" (gun).
> Sure, its not exactly the same thing - but its an expansion of a
> concept. If you can"aim-and-shoot" with a camera and a gun, how
> different is a remote control really?
> 
> 
> Lets stick with computers and technology for a little while longer.
> Why is a window (as in Microsoft Windows) not called a "patt" in
> Hindi? Most of the time that's what it is - an information board, a
> "pop up screen". Why do we seem to use "website" as a word in Hindi?
> To me, it's a "parav/padav"(stopping point). Why is an Internet portal
> called a portal? Because it's a launching point from where a surfer
> can go in many different directions. May be we should call it a
> "chauraahaa" in Hindi.
> 
> 
> Lets go outside the world of hi-tech. Hindi newspapers always talk
> about
>  which party has how many "seats" in the parliament. How come we don't
>  use the word "baithak" for it? Since when is "metro" a Hindi word for
>  a local train system in a city? It's not even a word in English!
> 
> 
> Doordarshan and Aakashvani of course have been abandoned as Hindi
> words for television and radio - they have simply become proper nouns
> - names of corporations, leaving us with nothing better than "Teevee"
> as a Hindi word.
> 
> 
> How come we call the burning cloth version of a torch a "mashaal", but
> we
>  call the battery-bulb version a "torch" in Hindi? We have a
>  "gaari/gaadi" - as a moving vehicle. But for some reason, a car is
>  just as much a Hindi word. Was this because Hindi needed to "change
>  with the times"? Or is this something else?
> 
> 
> Yes, a language must grow. If it doesn't, it perishes. But does a
> language grow because people who use it are creative and innovative
> with it? They think it, they speak it, they write it, and they use it?
> Or does it grow because they're too lazy to try to explain things to
> their readers in their own words, and find it much easier to simply
> borrow and replace?
> 
> 
> By simply borrowing words from another language, is Hindi growing? Or
> is it loosing its identity as the soul of over half of the population
> of the country, and becoming a language incapable of being the
> national communication channel of India? If most of the words in Hindi
> are not native, would it still remain and independent language? Would
> people read any literature written in it? Would there be any Nobel
> prizes for Hindi scholars? Or would they simply be ignored and
> described as a "mish-mash language that came about after the British
> invaded India"?
> 
> 
> They might call me a purist, who doesn't want to see the language
> modernize itself. But I'll let them know - I coined the Hindi word for
> a remote control. It doesn't get any more modern than wirelessly
> influencing an electrical appliance. And, I coined the Hindi word for
> a cursor - sure I needed help from a two year old kid to come up with
> that one - but he did better than most professional Hindi journalists
> out there.
> 
> 
> 
> About the Author
> 
> 
> Agastya Kohli, born Jan 31, 1975, and brought up in Delhi, moved to
> Chicago, IL for his Bachelors in Computer Engineering from Illinois
> Institute of Technology, roughly ten years ago. After a stay of four
> years in Chicago, and completion of the degree program, he moved to
> Dallas, TX and worked as a Network and Unix System Administrator for a
> little under 2 years. He then moved again to the greater Seattle, WA
> metro area, and has been working in the wireless telecom industry for
> the last 4 years in various capacities.
> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [Indic-computing-users] % of population that know English - correction

[<al...@ya...>]

> 
> 1991 data.
> %age of people whose mother tongue is English - 0.021%, 1,78,598.
> 
> English as second and third language among speakers of scheduled languages - 
> 3.15% - 2,54,40,188
The 3.15% is for people for whom English is the third language.
Total population = 807441612
Mother tongue  English = 178598
English as second language = 64602299 ie 8% of total pop
English as third langauge = 25440188 = 3.15% of total pop

% of people knowing English(mother tongue, second and third lang) = 11.17 %


> 
> Note:
> 1. This is 1991 data, couldn't find 2001 data.
> 2. The percentages are for people who can _speak_ English, so, they may not
> even know "abcd".
> 3. The literacy figures are available statewise and for the nation, but they
> don't tell you which languages the people are literate in.
> 
> alok
> 
> 


=====
Alok Kumar
F1, Wireless Monitoring Station Compound,
9th Main, 47th Cross, Jayanagar V Block
Bangalore 560076 India
+91-80-653-8200
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-bangalore-hindi/
Can't see Hindi? http://geocities.com/alkuma/seehindi.html

________________________________________________________________________
Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV.
       visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com

Re: [Indic-computing-users] % of population that know English

[<al...@ya...>]

http://www.censusindia.net/ is the official site.

1991 data.
%age of people whose mother tongue is English - 0.021%, 1,78,598.

English as second and third language among speakers of scheduled languages - 
3.15% - 2,54,40,188

Note:
1. This is 1991 data, couldn't find 2001 data.
2. The percentages are for people who can _speak_ English, so, they may not
even know "abcd".
3. The literacy figures are available statewise and for the nation, but they
don't tell you which languages the people are literate in.

alok


=====
Alok Kumar
F1, Wireless Monitoring Station Compound,
9th Main, 47th Cross, Jayanagar V Block
Bangalore 560076 India
+91-80-653-8200
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/linux-bangalore-hindi/
Can't see Hindi? http://geocities.com/alkuma/seehindi.html

________________________________________________________________________
Missed your favourite TV serial last night? Try the new, Yahoo! TV.
       visit http://in.tv.yahoo.com

[Indic-computing-users] % of population that know English

[Sayamindu D. <unm...@So...>]

Is there any website which gives statistics on the percentage of the
Indian population having knowledge of English.
Also, what is the knowledge of English (I mean, what is the yardstick -
is it just knowing abcd??)
-TIA-
-sdg-
-- 
Sayamindu Dasgupta [ http://www.peacefulaction.org/sayamindu/ ]

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