gwc-general — Gnome Wave Cleaner discussion list

[Gwc-general] GWC on Cygwin

[John C. <ci...@pu...>]

Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has attempted 
and succeeded in getting gwc working 
under Windows (XP/2000) with cygwin?

I have to use Windows XP at work because 
I support it, but I've been using some 
of my Linux progs under Cygwin. I was 
thinking about GWC and wondered what it 
would take. I guess it only really needs 
the libraries, not a full-blown Gnome 
install. But will it work?
I've been running everything under FVWM 
or TWM, whichever one is the default for 
Cygwin, FYI.

Any ideas appreciated. If this was 
already covered, sorry if I forgot.


John

Re: [Gwc-general] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Endian issues on powerpc]]

[Jeff W. <we...@ha...>]

Cool.

I tried it on my linux/686 and it works here too.

I'll put this out in a new release in the next day or two.

Thanks everyone for your help!
Jeff

digger vermont wrote:
> Great! 
>
> It works fine here on my powerbook. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> digger
>
> On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 11:33 +0100, Günter Geiger wrote:
>   
>> Hi, 
>>
>> Just got this patch from a powerpc user. Should fix the problem and also
>> keeps gwc going on LE machines.
>>
>> Günter
>> email message attachment, "Forwarded message - Re: [Fwd: [Gwc-general]
>> Endian	issues on powerpc]"
>>     
>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>> From: Paul Brossier <pi...@pi...>
>>> To: Günter Geiger <ge...@xd...>
>>> Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Gwc-general] Endian issues on powerpc]
>>> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:01:04 +0100
>>>
>>> err, __BYTE_ORDER should be used rather than __FLOAT_WORD_ORDER, as we
>>> are dealing with integers here. i don't know any machine that don't use
>>> the same endianness for floats and integers though :-)
>>>
>>> fixed patch attached.
>>>
>>> cheers, piem
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 12:46:37PM +0100, Paul Brossier wrote:
>>>       
>>>> hola,
>>>>
>>>> aqui esta. creo que regla ALSA tambien, pero no he probado.
>>>>
>>>> piem
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 16, 2007 at 05:52:56PM +0100, Günter Geiger wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> Hola, 
>>>>>
>>>>> Otro problema de endianness en uno de mis paquetes :(
>>>>>
>>>>> Günter
>>>>>           
>
>
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>   

Re: [Gwc-general] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Endian issues on powerpc]]

[digger v. <dv_...@ve...>]

Great! 

It works fine here on my powerbook. 

Thanks,

digger

On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 11:33 +0100, Günter Geiger wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> Just got this patch from a powerpc user. Should fix the problem and also
> keeps gwc going on LE machines.
> 
> Günter
> email message attachment, "Forwarded message - Re: [Fwd: [Gwc-general]
> Endian	issues on powerpc]"
> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: Paul Brossier <pi...@pi...>
> > To: Günter Geiger <ge...@xd...>
> > Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Gwc-general] Endian issues on powerpc]
> > Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:01:04 +0100
> > 
> > err, __BYTE_ORDER should be used rather than __FLOAT_WORD_ORDER, as we
> > are dealing with integers here. i don't know any machine that don't use
> > the same endianness for floats and integers though :-)
> > 
> > fixed patch attached.
> > 
> > cheers, piem
> > 
> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 12:46:37PM +0100, Paul Brossier wrote:
> > > hola,
> > > 
> > > aqui esta. creo que regla ALSA tambien, pero no he probado.
> > > 
> > > piem
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Feb 16, 2007 at 05:52:56PM +0100, Günter Geiger wrote:
> > > > Hola, 
> > > > 
> > > > Otro problema de endianness en uno de mis paquetes :(
> > > > 
> > > > Günter
> > > 

[Gwc-general] [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Endian issues on powerpc]]

[G. <ge...@xd...>]

Hi, 

Just got this patch from a powerpc user. Should fix the problem and also
keeps gwc going on LE machines.

Günter

Re: [Gwc-general] Endian issues on powerpc

[Jeff W. <we...@ha...>]

Excellent sleuthing digger!

I don't think the endian issues will be a problem in the 
declicking/denoising,
because gwc requests floating point values from libsndfile for the audio 
data.
Libsndfile is handling all the conversion and endian-ness.

Let's get some info from another powerpc/linux user before going forward
with a patch -- presumably we can detect that with the configure script.

Until then, have fun with gwc :-)

Good work!
Jeff

digger vermont wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Thanks for your reply
>
> If I did not mention it before, my programing and programing skills are
> at an early grade school level.
>
> Having said that, I have gotten gwc to playback correctly!  In
> audio_util.c I changed 
>
> format_set = GWC_S16_LE to format_set = GWC_S16_BE at line 108.
>
> I know its not a good solution, if a solution at all, but it does show
> that the audio playback problem is endian in nature.  Is there away that
> BE can be defined if its a powerpc?  I'd be glad give any patches a try.
>
> Another question then would be, will the endian issue also cause
> problems in any of the noise, click, etc, processing?
>
> Thanks
>
> digger
>
> At this point any of my other responses below are probably moot.
>
> On Sat, 2007-02-17 at 21:55 -0800, Jeff Welty wrote: 
>   
>> Hi Digger,
>>
>> Libsndfile says it has been tested for linux/powerpc's.  So
>> my next guess might be the implemenation of ALSA on the powerpc,
>> and perhaps GWC isn't delivering audio data correctly to the ALSA
>> device on the powerpc.
>>
>> I don't have a powerpc, so I can only look for clues with google.  Anyone
>> else out there have a powerpc and linux?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jeff
>>
>>     
>
> My original thought was the configuration of libsndfile regarding
> big-endian.  But ya know, looking and checking further, my pointing at
> libsndfile does seem wrong.
>
> I started over trying to troubleshoot.  First just to make sure.  The
> file utility reports that the sound file I'm testing with is 
>
> RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo
> 44100 Hz
>
> I believe that should work.
>
> I did a make clean compiled gwc with and without alsa support.  I also
> tried using gwc (without alsa) along with aoss and padsp (pulseaudio).
> All have the same results of the static/noise on playback.
>
> Looking for things to try I did File>Save-As the test file.  It does
> playback correctly from the commandline using aplay.
>
>
>
>     
>
>
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>   

Re: [Gwc-general] Endian issues on powerpc

[digger v. <dv_...@ve...>]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply

If I did not mention it before, my programing and programing skills are
at an early grade school level.

Having said that, I have gotten gwc to playback correctly!  In
audio_util.c I changed 

format_set = GWC_S16_LE to format_set = GWC_S16_BE at line 108.

I know its not a good solution, if a solution at all, but it does show
that the audio playback problem is endian in nature.  Is there away that
BE can be defined if its a powerpc?  I'd be glad give any patches a try.

Another question then would be, will the endian issue also cause
problems in any of the noise, click, etc, processing?

Thanks

digger

At this point any of my other responses below are probably moot.

On Sat, 2007-02-17 at 21:55 -0800, Jeff Welty wrote: 
> Hi Digger,
> 
> Libsndfile says it has been tested for linux/powerpc's.  So
> my next guess might be the implemenation of ALSA on the powerpc,
> and perhaps GWC isn't delivering audio data correctly to the ALSA
> device on the powerpc.
> 
> I don't have a powerpc, so I can only look for clues with google.  Anyone
> else out there have a powerpc and linux?
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> 

My original thought was the configuration of libsndfile regarding
big-endian.  But ya know, looking and checking further, my pointing at
libsndfile does seem wrong.

I started over trying to troubleshoot.  First just to make sure.  The
file utility reports that the sound file I'm testing with is 

RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo
44100 Hz

I believe that should work.

I did a make clean compiled gwc with and without alsa support.  I also
tried using gwc (without alsa) along with aoss and padsp (pulseaudio).
All have the same results of the static/noise on playback.

Looking for things to try I did File>Save-As the test file.  It does
playback correctly from the commandline using aplay.



    

Re: [Gwc-general] Endian issues on powerpc

[Jeff W. <we...@ha...>]

Hi Digger,

Libsndfile says it has been tested for linux/powerpc's.  So
my next guess might be the implemenation of ALSA on the powerpc,
and perhaps GWC isn't delivering audio data correctly to the ALSA
device on the powerpc.

I don't have a powerpc, so I can only look for clues with google.  Anyone
else out there have a powerpc and linux?

Cheers,
Jeff


digger vermont wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd love to get to work on some of my vinyl with gwc, but alas, playing
> a wav file through it is mostly static.
>
> I'm using linux on a powerpc which is big endian.  My past experience
> tells me it's an endian issue.  I have the same results regardless of
> whether I use an Ubuntu Feisty package or build it myself.  With or
> without Alsa enabled. The Ubuntu is version 0.21.05-1ubuntu1 and the
> source I've used is version gwc-0.21-07.
>
> I've tried looking into it and my uneducated guess it has to do with the
> configuration of libsndfile.
>
> I'm hoping you'll have some thoughts or ideas.
>
> Thanks,
>
> digger
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Gwc-general] Info on decrackle parameters and algorithm

[Neil C. <nn...@ne...>]

Can someone point me to a description of the decrackle parameters --
decrackle level, decrackling window and average window.  I'd like to
have some idea on how these values affect this 'filter'.   I'm also
curious about the algorithm; any reference?

Thanks,
  Neil
-- 
Neil Carlson <nn...@ne...>

[Gwc-general] Endian issues on powerpc

[digger v. <dv_...@ve...>]

Hello,

I'd love to get to work on some of my vinyl with gwc, but alas, playing
a wav file through it is mostly static.

I'm using linux on a powerpc which is big endian.  My past experience
tells me it's an endian issue.  I have the same results regardless of
whether I use an Ubuntu Feisty package or build it myself.  With or
without Alsa enabled. The Ubuntu is version 0.21.05-1ubuntu1 and the
source I've used is version gwc-0.21-07.

I've tried looking into it and my uneducated guess it has to do with the
configuration of libsndfile.

I'm hoping you'll have some thoughts or ideas.

Thanks,

digger

[Gwc-general] Interesting use for the "estimate signal" button

[John C. <ci...@pu...>]

Hi All,

I just wanted to mention another use for 
the "Estimate Signal" button which I 
just found.
I had been using it as an alternate for 
the "Remove weaker pops/clicks" in cases 
where that button just didn't do the 
right thing, however I had noticed that 
in many cases the "Estimate Signal" 
button did a better job of filling in 
the spot where the other tools left a 
little dropout.  But just now I was 
cleaning a recording I had dubbed from 
an old reel tape, and discovered to my 
surprise that this same tool can 
actually correct small tape dropouts!
It somehow averages the signal before 
and after the dropout into the hole, and 
is impressive  since there really wasn't 
a good way to do this before that I'm 
aware of.
Anyway, wanted to pass it along. It may 
help you in some cases to recover a 
brief dropout.

John

Re: [Gwc-general] Sound problem

[Jeff W. <we...@ha...>]

Bill,
Glad to hear that it is working now!

For others,

<Jeff shows his ALSA ignorance>
Mine is "plughw: 0,0".  Does anyone with more ALSA knowledge than me 
know how
to explain  the difference?  Is is just the bundler of the ALSA package and
how they defined the default ALSA devices?

</Jeff shows ...>
Jeff

Bill Dawson wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>  I changed the audio device from "plughw: 0,0"  to "hw: 0,0" and I now 
> get playback of the wav. file.
> Best regards, Bill Dawson
>
>
> !DSPAM:44e20cd4279081370112725!

Re: [Gwc-general] Sound problem

[Bill D. <daw...@te...>]

Hi Jeff,
  I changed the audio device from "plughw: 0,0"  to "hw: 0,0" and I now 
get playback of the wav. file.
Best regards, Bill Dawson

Re: [Gwc-general] Sound problem

[Bill D. <daw...@te...>]

Hi Jeff,
    Thanks for the information.  The audio device was "plughw:0,0".  Can you
think of anything else I can try?  Has gwc been successfully installed on
Suse 10.1?  It sounds like a great application and I am looking forward to
trying it.  Best regards,  Bill
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Welty" <we...@ha...>
To: "Bill Dawson" <daw...@te...>
Cc: <gwc...@li...>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Gwc-general] Sound problem


> Hi Bill,
>
> Since other applications are running OK, your sound driver must be
> fine.  Here's something to
> check -- Under Setting->Miscellaneous, check what you have for an audio
> device.  For
> OSS it is normally "/dev/dsp".  For ALSA (as you have it configured) it
> should be
> "plughw:0,0"
>
> Let us know if that was the problem, and it should get added to the help
> file.
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>
> Bill Dawson wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> > I have installed gwc-0.21-05 and am having a problem with the sound.
> >I used .configure --enable-alsa.  Everything appears to work.  It loads a
.wav
> >file and displays a waveform graphic.  I can select a region and the play
> >button starts the cursor moving thru the selection, but the sound output
is a
> >low frequency burble, no music.  The time to play a 44000 sample
selection
> >was about 5 seconds.  I expected one second.  I also tried .configure
without
> >the --enable-alsa option.  Same result.  The .wav file works normally in
> >other applications.  No other applications were running at the same time
as
> >gwc.  OSS is not installed.  ALSA has OSS emulation enabled.  I also
tried
> >gwc-0.20.10b-14 which is included as an rpm package with the Suse 10.1
> >distribution.  The results were the same.  I deleted all gwc  files
between
> >trials.
> > I have  Intel Pentium 4  3.0 GHz
> >    512KB ram
> >    Suse 10.1
> >    Linux 26.16.13-4swp i686
> >Any help would be appreciated.  Many thanks, Bill D.
> >
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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easier
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> >
> >
> >
> >!DSPAM:44b35ae6167212037811167!
> >
> >
>

Re: [Gwc-general] Sound problem

[Jeff W. <we...@ha...>]

Hi Bill,

Since other applications are running OK, your sound driver must be 
fine.  Here's something to
check -- Under Setting->Miscellaneous, check what you have for an audio 
device.  For
OSS it is normally "/dev/dsp".  For ALSA (as you have it configured) it 
should be
"plughw:0,0"

Let us know if that was the problem, and it should get added to the help 
file.

Cheers,
Jeff

Bill Dawson wrote:

>Hi,
>	I have installed gwc-0.21-05 and am having a problem with the sound.
>I used .configure --enable-alsa.  Everything appears to work.  It loads a .wav 
>file and displays a waveform graphic.  I can select a region and the play 
>button starts the cursor moving thru the selection, but the sound output is a 
>low frequency burble, no music.  The time to play a 44000 sample selection 
>was about 5 seconds.  I expected one second.  I also tried .configure without 
>the --enable-alsa option.  Same result.  The .wav file works normally in 
>other applications.  No other applications were running at the same time as 
>gwc.  OSS is not installed.  ALSA has OSS emulation enabled.  I also tried 
>gwc-0.20.10b-14 which is included as an rpm package with the Suse 10.1 
>distribution.  The results were the same.  I deleted all gwc  files between 
>trials.
>	I have  Intel Pentium 4  3.0 GHz
>		   512KB ram
>		   Suse 10.1
>		   Linux 26.16.13-4swp i686	
>Any help would be appreciated.  Many thanks, Bill D.  
>	
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
>Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
>Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
>_______________________________________________
>Gwc-general mailing list
>Gwc...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gwc-general
>
>
>
>!DSPAM:44b35ae6167212037811167!
>  
>

[Gwc-general] Sound problem

[Bill D. <daw...@te...>]

Hi,
	I have installed gwc-0.21-05 and am having a problem with the sound.
I used .configure --enable-alsa.  Everything appears to work.  It loads a .wav 
file and displays a waveform graphic.  I can select a region and the play 
button starts the cursor moving thru the selection, but the sound output is a 
low frequency burble, no music.  The time to play a 44000 sample selection 
was about 5 seconds.  I expected one second.  I also tried .configure without 
the --enable-alsa option.  Same result.  The .wav file works normally in 
other applications.  No other applications were running at the same time as 
gwc.  OSS is not installed.  ALSA has OSS emulation enabled.  I also tried 
gwc-0.20.10b-14 which is included as an rpm package with the Suse 10.1 
distribution.  The results were the same.  I deleted all gwc  files between 
trials.
	I have  Intel Pentium 4  3.0 GHz
		   512KB ram
		   Suse 10.1
		   Linux 26.16.13-4swp i686	
Any help would be appreciated.  Many thanks, Bill D.  
	

Re: [Gwc-general] LADSPA plugin(s)

[Jeff W. <we...@ha...>]

Hi Johan,

I think the Jack integration would be a very good addition to GWC, and 
fairly
straightforward.

Directly editing mono material would be a nice thing too, but I believe 
every function in GWC is
assumes stereo by default -- there are "left" and "right" arrays coded 
all over the
place.  GWC *will* read and write a mono file, but any edits to the left 
channel are ignored.

A redraw tool was actually something I had in mind originally, but I 
personally found I could always
tweak the selection window to make the "manual declick" work, or now the 
estimate function work
to my satisfaction.  If you zoom in enough you'll see little boxes on 
the sample points -- I had thought
it might be a nice feature to be able to grab a point and move it up and 
down interactively.

I have hacked in a reverb algorithm -- was working on a project for a 
friend.  I used the tapreverb
code, but it is an incredible hack, I'll get that cleaned up and put out 
a release in the next little while.

http://tap-plugins.sourceforge.net/reverbed.html

I must say this reverb algorithm is very nice.  In my recent project I 
added a *very small* amount
of reverb (-40dB relative to the original signal).  Just enough to add 
some "presence" back to the track.

Cheers,
Jeff


Johan De Groote wrote:

>Again sorry for picking in so late, but I have lost this list out of sight 
>being absorbed in other projects.
>
>I find this very interesting stuff. If I may voice my take on it, then it 
>would be Jack integration. This is for the moment my largest "problem" with 
>GWC, meaning I have to switch back and forth between Jack and Alsa.
>
>Then I would like it to work on mono material. With 78rpm's I often switch to 
>mono and then have to make this into a "stereo" file. I might save on 
>processing time.
>
>"Morphing" noise files might help in the situation Jeff mentions below where 
>the best noise profile in changing from start to end.
>
>Some simple sample redraw tool. Sometimes, none of the algorithms works to my 
>taste and I would like to just redraw the waveform by hand...
>
>Regards,
>Johan De Groote
>
>
>
>On Saturday 25 March 2006 19:48, Jeff Welty wrote:
>  
>
>>Sorry for the response delay.
>>
>>A few more thoughts...
>>
>>I understand the desire to build a denoise streaming setup, but my personal
>>preference has not been to do that, because it just doesn't seem to gain 
>>much
>>in terms of actual time saved, and more importantly I'm insanely 
>>diligant about
>>checking the denoise results on several portions of the audio track 
>>(using the undo
>>feature) before denoising the entire track.  Many times I find I'll 
>>tweak the denoise
>>level to avoid artifacts near the end of the track.  The last track I 
>>denoised I found
>>the best noise sample in the middle of the track!
>>
>>Again, that's just my view.  Do what seems rewarding to you.
>>
>>Something I recalled from Audacity a while back -- they were looking at GWC
>>for denoising, and decided against it because the GPL somehow conflicted 
>>with
>>their licensing scheme.  You may want to check with them about that 
>>before assuming
>>they could use an improved GWC-lib in Audacity.
>>
>>I have thought of using Jack before too -- but didn't want yet another 
>>dependency so
>>that's why I avoided it.  But since the audio interface has been 
>>abstracted (i.e. OSS
>>vs ALSA vs OSX), it is feasible to have an --enable-jack setting for the 
>>configure
>>script, and then write the appropriate Jack interface code.
>>
>>
>>As for the recording, I think building a simple standalone app is the 
>>logical first
>>step.  The track_rec app I did already has some VU meters in it, if it 
>>were ALSA-aware
>>and brought up to gnome2 interface standards it could become a basis for 
>>something
>>to build into GWC.  Another possibility to integrating things directly 
>>into GWC would
>>be something like a "GWC-console", which would be a meta-window that 
>>could fire
>>up the recorder, or fire up GWC, and then potentially stream all the 
>>components as a final
>>goal.
>>
>>Again, I'd personally not use the audacity recording GUI code, because 
>>it uses another
>>GUI library which must be separately installed.  I suspect you'll find 
>>there's not much
>>to the actual recording portion of the code, and is probably worth a look.
>>
>>FYI, There are 3 features I'd like to have in GWC, that are not 
>>currently available that would
>>enhance the audio clean-up.
>>
>>1) Picking the noise sample from a separate audio file than the one 
>>which is going to be denoised.
>>2) True graphic equalization (either using the DSP filters or FFT 
>>processing)
>>3) Some sort of reverb
>>
>>I want 1) because sometimes I have tracks coming from the same source, 
>>but the best noise sample
>>is not always on the current track.
>>2) and 3) are helpful, because if you take out 100% of the noise, then 
>>the high frequencies are impacted.
>>I have used a separate equalization process to emphasize the highs after 
>>denoising, with very good
>>results.  I suspect a little touch of reverb thrown in will make the 
>>final result very, very good.
>>
>>I think I'd leave the automatic track end detection feature for last, 
>>because that's likely going to be
>>a very hard problem to solve.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>Nik wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Jeff Welty wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Hi Nik,
>>>>
>>>>Sounds like the 2 additional things you want are:
>>>>
>>>>1) recording
>>>>2) automatic track end detection.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Pretty much, yes. And in addition, if any of the Gramofile filters are 
>>>in any way useful (do something better/different to those in GWC), I 
>>>would happily bring them over as well.
>>>
>>>Just to clarify: I basically want a single, simple GUI application, 
>>>which non-CLI conversant friends can use to transfer analogue 
>>>recordings to CD.
>>>
>>>I've been using arecord, gramofile and sox, and have been thoroughly 
>>>enjoying myself. So all I want in the GUI is the ability to record, 
>>>prepare the tracks for CD (filter/clean/modify/separate), and burn the 
>>>CD.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I think integrating gwc functions into any other app may be the most 
>>>>difficult task to get
>>>>that done.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>It's starting to sound that way.
>>>
>>>On the other hand, once I've got GWC modified for my purpose (assuming 
>>>I go that way), I may well still undertake the GWC/GWC-lib separation, 
>>>as I understand it would be beneficial to both the GWC and Audacity 
>>>projects.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>What I would encourage you to do, is build a simple little audio 
>>>>recorder.  (or find one,
>>>>I've looked for a graphical alsa recorder and not found one suitable)
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I certainly like this approach. The issue for me is the apparent 
>>>integration (or lack thereof) between the different applications.
>>>
>>>This was the thinking behind my questions regarding stream-based 
>>>architectures. If GWC could be part of a streaming pipeline, then I 
>>>could connect a recorder at the input, and/or a CD burner at the 
>>>output, and that would be my solution. (For scalability, the streams 
>>>would be cachable to disk.) It would basically be a different form of 
>>>plugin architecture (ala Gstreamer).
>>>
>>>Another option might be to build Jack support into GWC. This would 
>>>allow other Jack components to be used for recording etc. I doubt, 
>>>however, that GWC is currently structured correctly to support Jack). 
>>>The likely downside is that Jack seems to depend on a lot of other 
>>>libraries, and so may create dependency-hell for GWC - which would be 
>>>a *bad* thing. (I've been unable to install or build WaveMixer because 
>>>of dependancy problems.)
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Keep it simple,
>>>>focused and not cluttered with a bunch of features.  If you look on 
>>>>the gwc site you'll find
>>>>a little thing I wrote called track_rec which was designed to let you 
>>>>record tracks from an
>>>>LP.  But it doesn't work with ALSA, and it uses the old gnome 
>>>>libraries as well.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I see my options being:
>>>
>>>1. Modifying your track_rec to work with alsa (and possibly bolting 
>>>some VU meters onto it);
>>>
>>>2. Using existing recording code (from Audacity or WaveMixer, for 
>>>example) and putting that into GWC;
>>>
>>>3. writing a graphical front-end to arecord - hopefully inside GWC;
>>>
>>>4. write something from scratch.
>>>
>>>Of all these, 4 seems the least viable. I'm still unsure about the 
>>>others.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Putting automatic track end detection into GWC does make sense.  I 
>>>>find myself doing that
>>>>manually all the time -- i.e. I mark the start and end of each track, 
>>>>and there is a little gap
>>>>between songs.  It would be cool if the cdrdao TOC file writer could 
>>>>somehow recognize the "non-song"
>>>>gaps and not write them out to the TOC file.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Again, I see a number of ways of accomplishing this:
>>>
>>>1. merge the gramofile track detection algorithm in as a separate menu 
>>>item;
>>>
>>>2. incorporate the gramofile track detection into the GWC TOC file 
>>>writer;
>>>
>>>3. create a graphical front-end to the gramofile program - hopefully 
>>>inside GWC;
>>>
>>>4. implement an algorithm from scratch.
>>>
>>>Again, 4 seems least useful, and I don't yet know enough about the 
>>>others.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I usually just fire up arecord and
>>>>tell it to record a fixed number of minutes, start the tape or LP and 
>>>>walk away if I'm busy with
>>>>other things.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>This is pretty close to my current workflow...
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>These are just my views, please feel free to do whatever *you* think 
>>>>is the most fun or rewarding.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>:o)  Absolutely. As I said, I really want the same (or better) quality 
>>>of processing as I have now, but wrapped in a simple GUI so that my 
>>>friends can use it too.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>This is after all just a hobby for me too.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>But a fun hobby :o)
>>>
>>>Cheers!
>>>Nik.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Nik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Hi Jeff,
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for your reply.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am currently trying to work out the simplest and best (might be 
>>>>>different) way to achieve my goal.
>>>>>
>>>>>Currently, my original plan seems to entail: separate gwc-lib, and 
>>>>>then call that library from within Audacity. Given the nature of the 
>>>>>data GWC likes to handle, I might have to add data-stream support to 
>>>>>Audacity, either in native code, or through a library such as 
>>>>>Gstreamer.
>>>>>
>>>>>Alternatively, perhaps I should just add record abilities into GWC, 
>>>>>and then perhaps the Gramofile automatic track end detection?
>>>>>
>>>>>Another program I came across today, which already has Gstreamer 
>>>>>integration, is WaveMixer. Have you heard anything about this program?
>>>>>
>>>>>http://wavemixer.sourceforge.net
>>>>>
>>>>>So in summary, can you give any advice in the following:
>>>>>
>>>>>Which would you see as the quickest way to get to my goal?
>>>>>
>>>>>1. Put recording facilities into GWC?
>>>>>2. Put GWC facilities into an audio app such as Audacity or 
>>>>>WaveMixer, and if so, which?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks again for your input.
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers!
>>>>>Nik.
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>
>>>-------------------------------------------------------
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>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Gwc-general] massive cassette tape reproduction/restoration

[Johan De G. <joh...@sk...>]

I think your best option might be to multi-task the transcription. Or you 
divide the tapes between persons and choose common tools for it (a tape deck 
of suitable quality and well set-up, a good sound card, the same recording 
app and the same sample-rate/bitdepth) or you get a multi-track soundcard and 
several tape decks and record a few tapes at a time.

Recording at high speed will require specific equipment and probably more time 
afterward to get the EQ etc right again.

Regards,
Johan De Groote

On Tuesday 04 April 2006 15:24, Tim Wunder wrote:
> My church is looking to restore to digital approximately 1000 hours of audio 
> cassette tape recordings, some of which may be 25 years old. Can anybody on 
> this list recommend capture equipment for such a large task? We'd like to be 
> able to capture the recordings at greater than 1x playback, if possible.
> Thanks, 
> Tim
> -- 
> Fedora Core release 4 (Stentz), Linux 2.6.15-1.1833_FC4
> KDE: 3.5.2-1.0.fc4.kde, xorg-x11-6.8.2-37.FC4.49.2
>  11:20:04 up 8 days, 16:54,  4 users,  load average: 0.74, 0.54, 0.37
> MP3/OGG archive Total playlength : 7 days, 21 hours, 42 mins 58 seconds
> "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts" John Wooden
> 

Re: [Gwc-general] LADSPA plugin(s)

[Johan De G. <joh...@sk...>]

Again sorry for picking in so late, but I have lost this list out of sight 
being absorbed in other projects.

I find this very interesting stuff. If I may voice my take on it, then it 
would be Jack integration. This is for the moment my largest "problem" with 
GWC, meaning I have to switch back and forth between Jack and Alsa.

Then I would like it to work on mono material. With 78rpm's I often switch to 
mono and then have to make this into a "stereo" file. I might save on 
processing time.

"Morphing" noise files might help in the situation Jeff mentions below where 
the best noise profile in changing from start to end.

Some simple sample redraw tool. Sometimes, none of the algorithms works to my 
taste and I would like to just redraw the waveform by hand...

Regards,
Johan De Groote



On Saturday 25 March 2006 19:48, Jeff Welty wrote:
> Sorry for the response delay.
> 
> A few more thoughts...
> 
> I understand the desire to build a denoise streaming setup, but my personal
> preference has not been to do that, because it just doesn't seem to gain 
> much
> in terms of actual time saved, and more importantly I'm insanely 
> diligant about
> checking the denoise results on several portions of the audio track 
> (using the undo
> feature) before denoising the entire track.  Many times I find I'll 
> tweak the denoise
> level to avoid artifacts near the end of the track.  The last track I 
> denoised I found
> the best noise sample in the middle of the track!
> 
> Again, that's just my view.  Do what seems rewarding to you.
> 
> Something I recalled from Audacity a while back -- they were looking at GWC
> for denoising, and decided against it because the GPL somehow conflicted 
> with
> their licensing scheme.  You may want to check with them about that 
> before assuming
> they could use an improved GWC-lib in Audacity.
> 
> I have thought of using Jack before too -- but didn't want yet another 
> dependency so
> that's why I avoided it.  But since the audio interface has been 
> abstracted (i.e. OSS
> vs ALSA vs OSX), it is feasible to have an --enable-jack setting for the 
> configure
> script, and then write the appropriate Jack interface code.
> 
> 
> As for the recording, I think building a simple standalone app is the 
> logical first
> step.  The track_rec app I did already has some VU meters in it, if it 
> were ALSA-aware
> and brought up to gnome2 interface standards it could become a basis for 
> something
> to build into GWC.  Another possibility to integrating things directly 
> into GWC would
> be something like a "GWC-console", which would be a meta-window that 
> could fire
> up the recorder, or fire up GWC, and then potentially stream all the 
> components as a final
> goal.
> 
> Again, I'd personally not use the audacity recording GUI code, because 
> it uses another
> GUI library which must be separately installed.  I suspect you'll find 
> there's not much
> to the actual recording portion of the code, and is probably worth a look.
> 
> FYI, There are 3 features I'd like to have in GWC, that are not 
> currently available that would
> enhance the audio clean-up.
> 
> 1) Picking the noise sample from a separate audio file than the one 
> which is going to be denoised.
> 2) True graphic equalization (either using the DSP filters or FFT 
> processing)
> 3) Some sort of reverb
> 
> I want 1) because sometimes I have tracks coming from the same source, 
> but the best noise sample
> is not always on the current track.
> 2) and 3) are helpful, because if you take out 100% of the noise, then 
> the high frequencies are impacted.
> I have used a separate equalization process to emphasize the highs after 
> denoising, with very good
> results.  I suspect a little touch of reverb thrown in will make the 
> final result very, very good.
> 
> I think I'd leave the automatic track end detection feature for last, 
> because that's likely going to be
> a very hard problem to solve.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> Nik wrote:
> 
> > Jeff Welty wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Nik,
> >>
> >> Sounds like the 2 additional things you want are:
> >>
> >> 1) recording
> >> 2) automatic track end detection.
> >
> >
> > Pretty much, yes. And in addition, if any of the Gramofile filters are 
> > in any way useful (do something better/different to those in GWC), I 
> > would happily bring them over as well.
> >
> > Just to clarify: I basically want a single, simple GUI application, 
> > which non-CLI conversant friends can use to transfer analogue 
> > recordings to CD.
> >
> > I've been using arecord, gramofile and sox, and have been thoroughly 
> > enjoying myself. So all I want in the GUI is the ability to record, 
> > prepare the tracks for CD (filter/clean/modify/separate), and burn the 
> > CD.
> >
> >> I think integrating gwc functions into any other app may be the most 
> >> difficult task to get
> >> that done.
> >
> >
> > It's starting to sound that way.
> >
> > On the other hand, once I've got GWC modified for my purpose (assuming 
> > I go that way), I may well still undertake the GWC/GWC-lib separation, 
> > as I understand it would be beneficial to both the GWC and Audacity 
> > projects.
> >
> >> What I would encourage you to do, is build a simple little audio 
> >> recorder.  (or find one,
> >> I've looked for a graphical alsa recorder and not found one suitable)
> >
> >
> > I certainly like this approach. The issue for me is the apparent 
> > integration (or lack thereof) between the different applications.
> >
> > This was the thinking behind my questions regarding stream-based 
> > architectures. If GWC could be part of a streaming pipeline, then I 
> > could connect a recorder at the input, and/or a CD burner at the 
> > output, and that would be my solution. (For scalability, the streams 
> > would be cachable to disk.) It would basically be a different form of 
> > plugin architecture (ala Gstreamer).
> >
> > Another option might be to build Jack support into GWC. This would 
> > allow other Jack components to be used for recording etc. I doubt, 
> > however, that GWC is currently structured correctly to support Jack). 
> > The likely downside is that Jack seems to depend on a lot of other 
> > libraries, and so may create dependency-hell for GWC - which would be 
> > a *bad* thing. (I've been unable to install or build WaveMixer because 
> > of dependancy problems.)
> >
> >> Keep it simple,
> >> focused and not cluttered with a bunch of features.  If you look on 
> >> the gwc site you'll find
> >> a little thing I wrote called track_rec which was designed to let you 
> >> record tracks from an
> >> LP.  But it doesn't work with ALSA, and it uses the old gnome 
> >> libraries as well.
> >
> >
> > I see my options being:
> >
> > 1. Modifying your track_rec to work with alsa (and possibly bolting 
> > some VU meters onto it);
> >
> > 2. Using existing recording code (from Audacity or WaveMixer, for 
> > example) and putting that into GWC;
> >
> > 3. writing a graphical front-end to arecord - hopefully inside GWC;
> >
> > 4. write something from scratch.
> >
> > Of all these, 4 seems the least viable. I'm still unsure about the 
> > others.
> >
> >> Putting automatic track end detection into GWC does make sense.  I 
> >> find myself doing that
> >> manually all the time -- i.e. I mark the start and end of each track, 
> >> and there is a little gap
> >> between songs.  It would be cool if the cdrdao TOC file writer could 
> >> somehow recognize the "non-song"
> >> gaps and not write them out to the TOC file.
> >
> >
> > Again, I see a number of ways of accomplishing this:
> >
> > 1. merge the gramofile track detection algorithm in as a separate menu 
> > item;
> >
> > 2. incorporate the gramofile track detection into the GWC TOC file 
> > writer;
> >
> > 3. create a graphical front-end to the gramofile program - hopefully 
> > inside GWC;
> >
> > 4. implement an algorithm from scratch.
> >
> > Again, 4 seems least useful, and I don't yet know enough about the 
> > others.
> >
> >> I usually just fire up arecord and
> >> tell it to record a fixed number of minutes, start the tape or LP and 
> >> walk away if I'm busy with
> >> other things.
> >
> >
> > This is pretty close to my current workflow...
> >
> >> These are just my views, please feel free to do whatever *you* think 
> >> is the most fun or rewarding.
> >
> >
> > :o)  Absolutely. As I said, I really want the same (or better) quality 
> > of processing as I have now, but wrapped in a simple GUI so that my 
> > friends can use it too.
> >
> >> This is after all just a hobby for me too.
> >
> >
> > But a fun hobby :o)
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Nik.
> >
> >
> >> Nik wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Jeff,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your reply.
> >>>
> >>> I am currently trying to work out the simplest and best (might be 
> >>> different) way to achieve my goal.
> >>>
> >>> Currently, my original plan seems to entail: separate gwc-lib, and 
> >>> then call that library from within Audacity. Given the nature of the 
> >>> data GWC likes to handle, I might have to add data-stream support to 
> >>> Audacity, either in native code, or through a library such as 
> >>> Gstreamer.
> >>>
> >>> Alternatively, perhaps I should just add record abilities into GWC, 
> >>> and then perhaps the Gramofile automatic track end detection?
> >>>
> >>> Another program I came across today, which already has Gstreamer 
> >>> integration, is WaveMixer. Have you heard anything about this program?
> >>>
> >>> http://wavemixer.sourceforge.net
> >>>
> >>> So in summary, can you give any advice in the following:
> >>>
> >>> Which would you see as the quickest way to get to my goal?
> >>>
> >>> 1. Put recording facilities into GWC?
> >>> 2. Put GWC facilities into an audio app such as Audacity or 
> >>> WaveMixer, and if so, which?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks again for your input.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers!
> >>> Nik.
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting 
> > language
> > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live 
> > webcast
> > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding 
> > territory!
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> >
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:4416496c158538025810047!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory!
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> 
> 

[Gwc-general] massive cassette tape reproduction/restoration

[Tim W. <ti...@th...>]

My church is looking to restore to digital approximately 1000 hours of audi=
o=20
cassette tape recordings, some of which may be 25 years old. Can anybody on=
=20
this list recommend capture equipment for such a large task? We'd like to b=
e=20
able to capture the recordings at greater than 1x playback, if possible.
Thanks,=20
Tim
=2D-=20
=46edora Core release 4 (Stentz), Linux 2.6.15-1.1833_FC4
KDE: 3.5.2-1.0.fc4.kde, xorg-x11-6.8.2-37.FC4.49.2
 11:20:04 up 8 days, 16:54,  4 users,  load average: 0.74, 0.54, 0.37
MP3/OGG archive Total playlength : 7 days, 21 hours, 42 mins 58 seconds
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts" John Wooden

Re: [Gwc-general] Display not refreshed after using Estimate Signal

[Jeff W. <we...@ha...>]

Thanks for the bug report John.

I *strongly* recommend you get 0.21-05 though, the bugfix
to the Lorber-Hoeldrich denoising algorithm has made denoising
an order of magnitude better and easier.

I'll see if I can reproduce the bug.  Thanks for the compliment
on the estimate signal function.  It was one of the few inventions
of my own I put into GWC!

Jeff

John Cirillo wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
> Lately I have been using the Estimate Signal tool more and more.  It 
> has turned out to be quite a powerful tool in restoring areas that 
> were lost to oblivion, even better at fixing some clicks than the LSAR 
> tool.  Now I have noticed a small annoyance.  After I fix a glitch 
> with this tool, the glitch disappears from the waveform view and then 
> I zoom back out to continue working. But after zooming out about three 
> times, the glitch is suddenly there again!  It can be made to 
> disappear by running the Remove pops/clicks tool on the section in 
> view.  In any case the glitch was really gone from the sound, but 
> reappeared in the view.
> So it's not a bad bug but caused a little confusion until I found out 
> how to make it disappear.
> This is on GWC 0.21-03. I didn't try it on older versions as this is 
> the only version I use anymore.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting 
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live 
> webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding 
> territory!
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>
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> !DSPAM:4427719a47161284711672!

[Gwc-general] Display not refreshed after using Estimate Signal

[John C. <ci...@pu...>]

Hi Jeff,
Lately I have been using the Estimate 
Signal tool more and more.  It has 
turned out to be quite a powerful tool 
in restoring areas that were lost to 
oblivion, even better at fixing some 
clicks than the LSAR tool.  Now I have 
noticed a small annoyance.  After I fix 
a glitch with this tool, the glitch 
disappears from the waveform view and 
then I zoom back out to continue 
working. But after zooming out about 
three times, the glitch is suddenly 
there again!  It can be made to 
disappear by running the Remove 
pops/clicks tool on the section in view. 
  In any case the glitch was really gone 
from the sound, but reappeared in the view.
So it's not a bad bug but caused a 
little confusion until I found out how 
to make it disappear.
This is on GWC 0.21-03. I didn't try it 
on older versions as this is the only 
version I use anymore.

Thanks,

John

Re: [Gwc-general] LADSPA plugin(s)

[Jeff W. <we...@ha...>]

Sorry for the response delay.

A few more thoughts...

I understand the desire to build a denoise streaming setup, but my personal
preference has not been to do that, because it just doesn't seem to gain 
much
in terms of actual time saved, and more importantly I'm insanely 
diligant about
checking the denoise results on several portions of the audio track 
(using the undo
feature) before denoising the entire track.  Many times I find I'll 
tweak the denoise
level to avoid artifacts near the end of the track.  The last track I 
denoised I found
the best noise sample in the middle of the track!

Again, that's just my view.  Do what seems rewarding to you.

Something I recalled from Audacity a while back -- they were looking at GWC
for denoising, and decided against it because the GPL somehow conflicted 
with
their licensing scheme.  You may want to check with them about that 
before assuming
they could use an improved GWC-lib in Audacity.

I have thought of using Jack before too -- but didn't want yet another 
dependency so
that's why I avoided it.  But since the audio interface has been 
abstracted (i.e. OSS
vs ALSA vs OSX), it is feasible to have an --enable-jack setting for the 
configure
script, and then write the appropriate Jack interface code.


As for the recording, I think building a simple standalone app is the 
logical first
step.  The track_rec app I did already has some VU meters in it, if it 
were ALSA-aware
and brought up to gnome2 interface standards it could become a basis for 
something
to build into GWC.  Another possibility to integrating things directly 
into GWC would
be something like a "GWC-console", which would be a meta-window that 
could fire
up the recorder, or fire up GWC, and then potentially stream all the 
components as a final
goal.

Again, I'd personally not use the audacity recording GUI code, because 
it uses another
GUI library which must be separately installed.  I suspect you'll find 
there's not much
to the actual recording portion of the code, and is probably worth a look.

FYI, There are 3 features I'd like to have in GWC, that are not 
currently available that would
enhance the audio clean-up.

1) Picking the noise sample from a separate audio file than the one 
which is going to be denoised.
2) True graphic equalization (either using the DSP filters or FFT 
processing)
3) Some sort of reverb

I want 1) because sometimes I have tracks coming from the same source, 
but the best noise sample
is not always on the current track.
2) and 3) are helpful, because if you take out 100% of the noise, then 
the high frequencies are impacted.
I have used a separate equalization process to emphasize the highs after 
denoising, with very good
results.  I suspect a little touch of reverb thrown in will make the 
final result very, very good.

I think I'd leave the automatic track end detection feature for last, 
because that's likely going to be
a very hard problem to solve.

Cheers,
Jeff



Nik wrote:

> Jeff Welty wrote:
>
>> Hi Nik,
>>
>> Sounds like the 2 additional things you want are:
>>
>> 1) recording
>> 2) automatic track end detection.
>
>
> Pretty much, yes. And in addition, if any of the Gramofile filters are 
> in any way useful (do something better/different to those in GWC), I 
> would happily bring them over as well.
>
> Just to clarify: I basically want a single, simple GUI application, 
> which non-CLI conversant friends can use to transfer analogue 
> recordings to CD.
>
> I've been using arecord, gramofile and sox, and have been thoroughly 
> enjoying myself. So all I want in the GUI is the ability to record, 
> prepare the tracks for CD (filter/clean/modify/separate), and burn the 
> CD.
>
>> I think integrating gwc functions into any other app may be the most 
>> difficult task to get
>> that done.
>
>
> It's starting to sound that way.
>
> On the other hand, once I've got GWC modified for my purpose (assuming 
> I go that way), I may well still undertake the GWC/GWC-lib separation, 
> as I understand it would be beneficial to both the GWC and Audacity 
> projects.
>
>> What I would encourage you to do, is build a simple little audio 
>> recorder.  (or find one,
>> I've looked for a graphical alsa recorder and not found one suitable)
>
>
> I certainly like this approach. The issue for me is the apparent 
> integration (or lack thereof) between the different applications.
>
> This was the thinking behind my questions regarding stream-based 
> architectures. If GWC could be part of a streaming pipeline, then I 
> could connect a recorder at the input, and/or a CD burner at the 
> output, and that would be my solution. (For scalability, the streams 
> would be cachable to disk.) It would basically be a different form of 
> plugin architecture (ala Gstreamer).
>
> Another option might be to build Jack support into GWC. This would 
> allow other Jack components to be used for recording etc. I doubt, 
> however, that GWC is currently structured correctly to support Jack). 
> The likely downside is that Jack seems to depend on a lot of other 
> libraries, and so may create dependency-hell for GWC - which would be 
> a *bad* thing. (I've been unable to install or build WaveMixer because 
> of dependancy problems.)
>
>> Keep it simple,
>> focused and not cluttered with a bunch of features.  If you look on 
>> the gwc site you'll find
>> a little thing I wrote called track_rec which was designed to let you 
>> record tracks from an
>> LP.  But it doesn't work with ALSA, and it uses the old gnome 
>> libraries as well.
>
>
> I see my options being:
>
> 1. Modifying your track_rec to work with alsa (and possibly bolting 
> some VU meters onto it);
>
> 2. Using existing recording code (from Audacity or WaveMixer, for 
> example) and putting that into GWC;
>
> 3. writing a graphical front-end to arecord - hopefully inside GWC;
>
> 4. write something from scratch.
>
> Of all these, 4 seems the least viable. I'm still unsure about the 
> others.
>
>> Putting automatic track end detection into GWC does make sense.  I 
>> find myself doing that
>> manually all the time -- i.e. I mark the start and end of each track, 
>> and there is a little gap
>> between songs.  It would be cool if the cdrdao TOC file writer could 
>> somehow recognize the "non-song"
>> gaps and not write them out to the TOC file.
>
>
> Again, I see a number of ways of accomplishing this:
>
> 1. merge the gramofile track detection algorithm in as a separate menu 
> item;
>
> 2. incorporate the gramofile track detection into the GWC TOC file 
> writer;
>
> 3. create a graphical front-end to the gramofile program - hopefully 
> inside GWC;
>
> 4. implement an algorithm from scratch.
>
> Again, 4 seems least useful, and I don't yet know enough about the 
> others.
>
>> I usually just fire up arecord and
>> tell it to record a fixed number of minutes, start the tape or LP and 
>> walk away if I'm busy with
>> other things.
>
>
> This is pretty close to my current workflow...
>
>> These are just my views, please feel free to do whatever *you* think 
>> is the most fun or rewarding.
>
>
> :o)  Absolutely. As I said, I really want the same (or better) quality 
> of processing as I have now, but wrapped in a simple GUI so that my 
> friends can use it too.
>
>> This is after all just a hobby for me too.
>
>
> But a fun hobby :o)
>
> Cheers!
> Nik.
>
>
>> Nik wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jeff,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>>
>>> I am currently trying to work out the simplest and best (might be 
>>> different) way to achieve my goal.
>>>
>>> Currently, my original plan seems to entail: separate gwc-lib, and 
>>> then call that library from within Audacity. Given the nature of the 
>>> data GWC likes to handle, I might have to add data-stream support to 
>>> Audacity, either in native code, or through a library such as 
>>> Gstreamer.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, perhaps I should just add record abilities into GWC, 
>>> and then perhaps the Gramofile automatic track end detection?
>>>
>>> Another program I came across today, which already has Gstreamer 
>>> integration, is WaveMixer. Have you heard anything about this program?
>>>
>>> http://wavemixer.sourceforge.net
>>>
>>> So in summary, can you give any advice in the following:
>>>
>>> Which would you see as the quickest way to get to my goal?
>>>
>>> 1. Put recording facilities into GWC?
>>> 2. Put GWC facilities into an audio app such as Audacity or 
>>> WaveMixer, and if so, which?
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your input.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>> Nik.
>>>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live 
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>
>
>
> !DSPAM:4416496c158538025810047!

Re: [Gwc-general] LADSPA plugin(s)

[Nik <ni...@us...>]

Jeff Welty wrote:
> Hi Nik,
> 
> Sounds like the 2 additional things you want are:
> 
> 1) recording
> 2) automatic track end detection.

Pretty much, yes. And in addition, if any of the Gramofile filters are 
in any way useful (do something better/different to those in GWC), I 
would happily bring them over as well.

Just to clarify: I basically want a single, simple GUI application, 
which non-CLI conversant friends can use to transfer analogue recordings 
to CD.

I've been using arecord, gramofile and sox, and have been thoroughly 
enjoying myself. So all I want in the GUI is the ability to record, 
prepare the tracks for CD (filter/clean/modify/separate), and burn the CD.

> I think integrating gwc functions into any other app may be the most 
> difficult task to get
> that done.

It's starting to sound that way.

On the other hand, once I've got GWC modified for my purpose (assuming I 
go that way), I may well still undertake the GWC/GWC-lib separation, as 
I understand it would be beneficial to both the GWC and Audacity projects.

> What I would encourage you to do, is build a simple little audio 
> recorder.  (or find one,
> I've looked for a graphical alsa recorder and not found one suitable)

I certainly like this approach. The issue for me is the apparent 
integration (or lack thereof) between the different applications.

This was the thinking behind my questions regarding stream-based 
architectures. If GWC could be part of a streaming pipeline, then I 
could connect a recorder at the input, and/or a CD burner at the output, 
and that would be my solution. (For scalability, the streams would be 
cachable to disk.) It would basically be a different form of plugin 
architecture (ala Gstreamer).

Another option might be to build Jack support into GWC. This would allow 
other Jack components to be used for recording etc. I doubt, however, 
that GWC is currently structured correctly to support Jack). The likely 
downside is that Jack seems to depend on a lot of other libraries, and 
so may create dependency-hell for GWC - which would be a *bad* thing. 
(I've been unable to install or build WaveMixer because of dependancy 
problems.)

> Keep it simple,
> focused and not cluttered with a bunch of features.  If you look on the 
> gwc site you'll find
> a little thing I wrote called track_rec which was designed to let you 
> record tracks from an
> LP.  But it doesn't work with ALSA, and it uses the old gnome libraries 
> as well.

I see my options being:

1. Modifying your track_rec to work with alsa (and possibly bolting some 
VU meters onto it);

2. Using existing recording code (from Audacity or WaveMixer, for 
example) and putting that into GWC;

3. writing a graphical front-end to arecord - hopefully inside GWC;

4. write something from scratch.

Of all these, 4 seems the least viable. I'm still unsure about the others.

> Putting automatic track end detection into GWC does make sense.  I find 
> myself doing that
> manually all the time -- i.e. I mark the start and end of each track, 
> and there is a little gap
> between songs.  It would be cool if the cdrdao TOC file writer could 
> somehow recognize the "non-song"
> gaps and not write them out to the TOC file.

Again, I see a number of ways of accomplishing this:

1. merge the gramofile track detection algorithm in as a separate menu item;

2. incorporate the gramofile track detection into the GWC TOC file writer;

3. create a graphical front-end to the gramofile program - hopefully 
inside GWC;

4. implement an algorithm from scratch.

Again, 4 seems least useful, and I don't yet know enough about the others.

> I usually 
> just fire up arecord and
> tell it to record a fixed number of minutes, start the tape or LP and 
> walk away if I'm busy with
> other things.

This is pretty close to my current workflow...

> These are just my views, please feel free to do whatever *you* think is 
> the most fun or rewarding.

:o)  Absolutely. As I said, I really want the same (or better) quality 
of processing as I have now, but wrapped in a simple GUI so that my 
friends can use it too.

> This is after all just a hobby for me too.

But a fun hobby :o)

Cheers!
Nik.


> Nik wrote:
> 
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
>> I am currently trying to work out the simplest and best (might be 
>> different) way to achieve my goal.
>>
>> Currently, my original plan seems to entail: separate gwc-lib, and 
>> then call that library from within Audacity. Given the nature of the 
>> data GWC likes to handle, I might have to add data-stream support to 
>> Audacity, either in native code, or through a library such as Gstreamer.
>>
>> Alternatively, perhaps I should just add record abilities into GWC, 
>> and then perhaps the Gramofile automatic track end detection?
>>
>> Another program I came across today, which already has Gstreamer 
>> integration, is WaveMixer. Have you heard anything about this program?
>>
>> http://wavemixer.sourceforge.net
>>
>> So in summary, can you give any advice in the following:
>>
>> Which would you see as the quickest way to get to my goal?
>>
>> 1. Put recording facilities into GWC?
>> 2. Put GWC facilities into an audio app such as Audacity or WaveMixer, 
>> and if so, which?
>>
>> Thanks again for your input.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Nik.
>>

Re: [Gwc-general] LADSPA plugin(s)

[Jeff W. <we...@ya...>]

Hi Nik,

Sounds like the 2 additional things you want are:

1) recording
2) automatic track end detection.

I think integrating gwc functions into any other app may be the most 
difficult task to get
that done.

What I would encourage you to do, is build a simple little audio 
recorder.  (or find one,
I've looked for a graphical alsa recorder and not found one suitable)  
Keep it simple,
focused and not cluttered with a bunch of features.  If you look on the 
gwc site you'll find
a little thing I wrote called track_rec which was designed to let you 
record tracks from an
LP.  But it doesn't work with ALSA, and it uses the old gnome libraries 
as well.

Putting automatic track end detection into GWC does make sense.  I find 
myself doing that
manually all the time -- i.e. I mark the start and end of each track, 
and there is a little gap
between songs.  It would be cool if the cdrdao TOC file writer could 
somehow recognize the "non-song"
gaps and not write them out to the TOC file.

I found a little ALSA app called "ameter", which I started using a 
couple of weeks ago.
Using it in conjunction with arecord gives me level meters.  I usually 
just fire up arecord and
tell it to record a fixed number of minutes, start the tape or LP and 
walk away if I'm busy with
other things.

These are just my views, please feel free to do whatever *you* think is 
the most fun or rewarding.
This is after all just a hobby for me too.

Cheers,
Jeff

Nik wrote:

>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I am currently trying to work out the simplest and best (might be 
> different) way to achieve my goal.
>
> Currently, my original plan seems to entail: separate gwc-lib, and 
> then call that library from within Audacity. Given the nature of the 
> data GWC likes to handle, I might have to add data-stream support to 
> Audacity, either in native code, or through a library such as Gstreamer.
>
> Alternatively, perhaps I should just add record abilities into GWC, 
> and then perhaps the Gramofile automatic track end detection?
>
> Another program I came across today, which already has Gstreamer 
> integration, is WaveMixer. Have you heard anything about this program?
>
> http://wavemixer.sourceforge.net
>
> So in summary, can you give any advice in the following:
>
> Which would you see as the quickest way to get to my goal?
>
> 1. Put recording facilities into GWC?
> 2. Put GWC facilities into an audio app such as Audacity or WaveMixer, 
> and if so, which?
>
> Thanks again for your input.
>
> Cheers!
> Nik.
>

Re: [Gwc-general] LADSPA plugin(s)

[Nik <ni...@us...>]

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply.

I am currently trying to work out the simplest and best (might be 
different) way to achieve my goal.

Currently, my original plan seems to entail: separate gwc-lib, and then 
call that library from within Audacity. Given the nature of the data GWC 
likes to handle, I might have to add data-stream support to Audacity, 
either in native code, or through a library such as Gstreamer.

Alternatively, perhaps I should just add record abilities into GWC, and 
then perhaps the Gramofile automatic track end detection?

Another program I came across today, which already has Gstreamer 
integration, is WaveMixer. Have you heard anything about this program?

http://wavemixer.sourceforge.net

So in summary, can you give any advice in the following:

Which would you see as the quickest way to get to my goal?

1. Put recording facilities into GWC?
2. Put GWC facilities into an audio app such as Audacity or WaveMixer, 
and if so, which?

Thanks again for your input.

Cheers!
Nik.

Jeff Welty wrote:
> Hi Nik,
> 
> Sadly, you can't turn either the denoising or the declicking algorithms 
> into
> LADSPA plugins, or I would have done that instead of gwc-lib.  It is 
> because
> the gwc algorithms are non-causal (if I remember the term correctly), 
> i.e. it
> is not 1 frame in and 1 frame out, the algorithms work on overlapping 
> frames,
> and declicking literally runs from the end to start instead of vice-versa.

Ok, that's really helpful information.

Given my original goal was to have a single GUI-based tool to support 
transferring analogue recording to CD, then perhaps I should reconsider 
my plan.


> If someone wanted to take gwc-0.21-05 and re-create the gwc-lib from it,
> and then make gwc use gwc-lib, that would be a great step forward.  There
> may be a small speed penalty but we can evaluate that.

I have no problem doing this, but it doesn't sound like a quick way of 
getting to were I want to be. Although, in the longer-run, I do like the 
interface of Audacity.

> Cheers,
> Jeff
> 
> Nik wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>>
>> My original concept was to write a LADSPA plugin to incorporate the 
>> functionality of Gramofile into Audacity. When I posted about this on 
>> the Audacity forums, the reply was that previous discussion had 
>> decided to wait until GWC was separated into frontend and backend, and 
>> then use the gwc-lib to create such a plugin.
>>
>> So, I'm putting my hand up to attempt this work. My questions are:
>>
>> 1. Is the gwc-lib-0.05 that I downloaded from SourceForge recent 
>> enough to perform this work? It seems to be a little light - and 
>> possibly a little out of date?
>>
>> 2. Is the code in the more recent GWC gwc-0.21-05 easily separated 
>> into frontend and backend? I've built gwc from it, and it seems to 
>> have no obvious library.
>>
>> 3. I notice in the TODO file a task to LADSPA-ise the filters. This is 
>> certainly in the realm of what I'm looking at doing. Can anyone offer 
>> any help in identifying the files needed by such a plugin?
>>
>> 4. Has anyone already started work on this, and if so, do they want 
>> help, or are they hapily progressing in their own time?
>>
>>
>> Any and all responses welcome.
>>
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Nik
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting 
>> language
>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live 
>> webcast
>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding 
>> territory!
>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> !DSPAM:4410e291168321552818589!
> 
>