etc-users — General discussion and support list.

[etc-users] screen

[Dragos M. <dr...@ls...>]

Hello,

I've come across your project seeking touchscreens that work on Linux.
Can you please tell where from could I buy a Citadel touch-screen? 

http://etc.sourceforge.net/hardware.php says:

You can purchase the Citadel Touchscreen online -> link to

http://www.mindbent.org/etc/order.html which says:

The homepage for ETC has moved to http://etc.sourceforge.net

and that pretty much takes me back to the start point.

Probably the 386 reused machine was a huge succes, as I cannot find it
for sale anywhere else.

Links to other cheap/reused/p.o. tocuhscreens vendors are welcomed.

Thank you!

Dragos

-- 
Si cand ma gandesc ca inainte de a te cunoaste pe tine eram un apolitic!

[etc-users] coordinate parsing

[John S. <ma...@us...>]

Hi all, 
 I have the citadel ready to go, and am starting to work on the
server end ( perfect use of my old ss2!). What are you guys using to
parse the coordinates into useful information? Can I use a table to
match the grid coordinates, or if then statements?  I would like to
integrate the PHP-x10 scripts with the ETC scripts to make a complete
front end for the X10 firecracker project. Next on my list is
consumer IR for the liviing room citadel, and I'll have a complete
Home theatre control system :)
...

[etc-users] Of those that have a working ETC, what NIC?

[Chris K. <ch...@ck...>]

Hello all,

   I am having an incredibly frustrating experience with my 
Citadel, namely that the network cards I am trying appear to 
somehow conflict with the touchscreen.

   So, I have a favor to ask of the etc-users list. Who here 
has actually gotten ETC to work? _Please_ post your network 
card make, model, and any other information that you can 
provide. I have tried both 3Com 3C509 and 3C509B variants, 
and also "Noderunner" NE2000-clone cards, and cannot get it 
to work, and neither can Mark. So I'd like to know what cards 
_do_ work. 

Thanks in advance,
Chris
--
Chris Kalisiak
CK Computer Systems
http://www.ckcomputersystems.com
Specializing in DEC hardware since 1993

Re: [etc-users] ETC-0.1.4 is released

[Chris K. <ch...@ck...>]

Thanks, Mark!

So, what exactly does this update address, as far as ethernet cards are concerned? Will I be able to use the "offending" 3Com card now? Or should I stick with the NE2000-clone? 

Chris

On Wed, 16 January 2002, Mark Farver wrote:

> 
> I've finally released ETC version 0.1.4, with the bug fix for the
> non-working touchscreens on some (ok.. most) units.  Many thanks go to
> Chris Kalisiak for shipping me one of the units that displays this
> problem.
> 
> I've also cleaned up the code a bit, and improved load times somewhat.
> 
> There is a weird problem with Sourceforge, so I can't get it into their
> release system yet but you can fetch the etc-0.1.4-binary version that
> contain the new exec and etc source from the group site:
> http://etc.sf.net/download/
> 
> Next release will probably use libcurl for the http layer, allowing for
> server side image maps, fancy redirects and better interaction with IIS.
> 
> Please let me or the etc-users list know if this version works for you, or
> if it doesn't what problems you are having with the system.  Your feedback
> is vital to the health of ETC (and my motivation to improve the system...)
> 
> Thanks
> Mark Farver
> 
> -- 
> "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
> zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
> -- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Etc-users mailing list
> Etc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/etc-users

--
Chris Kalisiak
CK Computer Systems
http://www.ckcomputersystems.com
Specializing in DEC hardware since 1993

[etc-users] ETC-0.1.4 is released

[Mark F. <mf...@mi...>]

I've finally released ETC version 0.1.4, with the bug fix for the
non-working touchscreens on some (ok.. most) units.  Many thanks go to
Chris Kalisiak for shipping me one of the units that displays this
problem.

I've also cleaned up the code a bit, and improved load times somewhat.

There is a weird problem with Sourceforge, so I can't get it into their
release system yet but you can fetch the etc-0.1.4-binary version that
contain the new exec and etc source from the group site:
http://etc.sf.net/download/

Next release will probably use libcurl for the http layer, allowing for
server side image maps, fancy redirects and better interaction with IIS.

Please let me or the etc-users list know if this version works for you, or
if it doesn't what problems you are having with the system.  Your feedback
is vital to the health of ETC (and my motivation to improve the system...)

Thanks
Mark Farver

-- 
"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
-- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States

[etc-users] 486 - Citadel Question

[Jeff S. <jsk...@nw...>]

Howdy,

Say I am pulling my hair out on something and thought I would ask you
folks...

I have one of the 486 Citadel units and I am trying to enable a HD (seems
simple enough!) I have purchased an ISA controller (2 actually) I have tried
3 different HD's to no avail and every BIOS setting I could think of.  Have
any of you had any luck doing this?  and if so would you mind sharing the
drive type and size, etc.

Also has anyone setup any interesting OS software like LINUX or DOS on one
of these?  Care to share any success/failure you may have encountered?  I am
especially trying to figure out the touch-screen.

Thanks,
Jeff

Re: [etc-users] More in-depth info on ETC project

[Jason K. <jk...@re...>]

On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 11:34:52AM -0600, Mark Farver wrote:
> On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Jeff Skinner wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > I am looking for more specific in-depth information on the ETC project,
> > specifically relating to the PHP server side.  Is this a "standard" PHP
> 
> > Examples would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Sorry.. not much available in example scripts.  Mostly I've been trying to
> fix bugs with the basic app.  If you build a script feel free to send it
> to me, I'll put it on the download page.
> 
I've been working on a fairly complete perl backend that makes creating a
menu system downright simple  =).  Unfortunately I am currently trapped on
a customer job site in Illinois, and won't be home to finish it until
February...

> Using PHP to drive ETC is pretty striaghtforward.. but does take some
> creativity.  Look at the demo.php script on the download page for basic
> ideas.  Someone suggested I handle server side image maps, and I like the
> idea enough I'm going to include it next release (if I can get it
> working)... Server side maps would eliminate a lot of need for PHP.
> 
This is basically what I did with the perl stuff, supposedly my house has
broadband now, maybe if I can get my roommate to get my server machine up
on the net I can contribute what I have now, which more or less works, it
just needs some tuning...

-- 
Jason Kohles                                 jk...@re...
Senior System Architect                      (703)786-8036 (cellular)
Red Hat Professional Consulting              (703)456-2940 (office)

Re: [etc-users] More in-depth info on ETC project

[Mark F. <mf...@mi...>]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2001, Jeff Skinner wrote:

> Hi,
> I am looking for more specific in-depth information on the ETC project,
> specifically relating to the PHP server side.  Is this a "standard" PHP

> Examples would be greatly appreciated!

Sorry.. not much available in example scripts.  Mostly I've been trying to
fix bugs with the basic app.  If you build a script feel free to send it
to me, I'll put it on the download page.

Using PHP to drive ETC is pretty striaghtforward.. but does take some
creativity.  Look at the demo.php script on the download page for basic
ideas.  Someone suggested I handle server side image maps, and I like the
idea enough I'm going to include it next release (if I can get it
working)... Server side maps would eliminate a lot of need for PHP.


Mark

-- 
"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
-- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States

[etc-users] More in-depth info on ETC project

[Jeff S. <jsk...@nw...>]

Hi,
I am looking for more specific in-depth information on the ETC project,
specifically relating to the PHP server side.  Is this a "standard" PHP
install with static pages or is there a bunch of server side code that has
been implemented to allow the Citadel units to work.  Also how did you
"connect" the server pages out to external systems?

Examples would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Jeff

PHP impaired.. IIS guy!

Re: [etc-users] ETC features?

[Chris K. <ch...@ck...>]

Hello,

> However I was thinking the other day about the problem at hand.  While I
> orginally designed ETC to be infinitely flexible, it isn't all that easy
> to use.

I'll take your word on the ease-of-use. I have not yet started architecting the touchscreen PHP code, as the Citadel isn't really working yet. 

Actually, after the refresh problem was resolved, I was going to ask if I could please have a copy of your ETC apartment layout sources so I could get some ideas from it. Would this be possible? I know you said your existing code wasn't ready to be released, and you were thinking about modularizing/objectizing the code, but I personally don't want to burden you with rewriting your PHP code if you didn't already want to do so. And it would be really helpful to see a snapshot of working ETC code. 
 
> What do you all really want to do with ETC?  Home control? MP3 headend?

Most certainly home control. I have a fairly disconnected set of home automation devices at the moment, including a CM11A and a pair of JDS TimeCommanders with A/D interfaces, and would also like to do speech synthesis.

I envision being able to throw as many as a dozen "imagemaps" at the Citadels, with, basically, links from one to the other. The first floor ETC would have the first floor imagemap displayed by default, and by touching one set of stairs or another, the second floor or basement imagemaps could be displayed. Or by touching the entertainment center on the first floor imagemap, various A/V functions could be performed, including MP3 playback.

> Is Linux on the server side too much to handle?

Not sure yet. I hope not, though.
 
> I thought of a different way to attack the problem.. its not as elegant as
> the whole http PNG fetch system, but it might be more flexible and much
> easier to build front ends for.
[...]
> Another server could connect to an X11 CM11a interface and do the
> floorplan lights on/off functionality.

This is an interesting idea. I don't really know which would be more appropriate, though. I could see it being easier this way, as it sounds more modularized. 
 
> But it would be harder to have a server that did both X10 and Winamp..
> (since only one server could talk to a display at a time)

As long as there is a mechanism for switching between X10 and Winamp, in this example, then does it matter? 
The touchscreen isn't very large to begin with, and serving a simple page over 10Base-T should be pretty quick. I'm planning on only having one "service" on the screen at a time anyway. X10 or Winamp or weather reports or... More than one service at a time might be confusing anyway. 

> It would be easier to install the server side software, since it wouldn't
> involve IIS or Apache.  It could just be a dumb Windows program, with a
> standard installshield installation.

I already have a Linux box on 24/7 doing the firewall/NAT stuff, so I'm not inclined to have a Windoze box up 24/7 too. But that's just me. 

However, as someone else already described, maybe something which could generate the HTML imagemaps would be nice. I havn't used FrontPage before, but if it's an all-in-one package for creating imagemaps and interacting with and switching between imagemaps, then that sounds good to me. 
 
> Would you be willing to pay for the servers?

My time has some value associated with it, so anything to make the entire system come together quicker and more reliably would be worth something. I'd probably put a cap at $100, though. (I think if we had gobs of cash, we probably wouldn't have gone the cheap Citadel route. ;-) )
 

Thanks,
Chris

--
Chris Kalisiak
CK Computer Systems
http://www.ckcomputersystems.com
Specializing in DEC hardware since 1993

Re: [etc-users] DHCP

[Chris K. <ch...@ck...>]

Hello,

   I agree. I would prefer DHCP over hard-coded addresses and URL's, myself. First priority for me is getting the demo up and running, though...

Thanks,
Chris


On Tue, 16 October 2001, Chris Maresca wrote:

> 
> 
> Yes, DHCP is good.  There is also a method for loading an entire OS using
> DHCP.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Mark Farver wrote:
> 
> > Another question...
> > 
> > I am thinking of creating a version of ETC that uses DHCP to get its IP
> > address.  This way I can make the flash image available on the website.
> > Installing a new version of ETC would be as simple as copying flash.exe
> > and the image file onto a bootfloppy.
> > 
> > I'll still make the option to compile your own flash image with a static
> > IP address available, as well as source.  I'm just thinking this would be
> > a heck of a lot simpler for anyone who has a DHCP server.
> > 
> > Do most of you have the ability to have DHCP servers on your networks?
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > -- 
> > "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
> > zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
> > -- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Etc-users mailing list
> > Etc...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/etc-users
> > 
> 
> --
> chris maresca
>       internet systems architect -- www.chrismaresca.com
> 
> "Every day you may make progress. Every step may be fruitful. Yet there will stretch
> out before you an ever-lengthening, ever-ascending path. You know you will never get
> to the end of the journey. But this, so far from discouraging, only adds to the joy
> and glory of the climb."                          [Sir Winston Churchill, 1874-1965]
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Etc-users mailing list
> Etc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/etc-users

--
Chris Kalisiak
CK Computer Systems
http://www.ckcomputersystems.com
Specializing in DEC hardware since 1993

Re: [etc-users] ETC features?

[Chris K. <ch...@ck...>]

HomeSeer looks like it's a decent product, but it's only Windows-based, which appears it would alienate most of the users here, myself included. 

Chris


On Tue, 16 October 2001, ani...@ho... wrote:

> 
> Why not create a plugin for HomeSeer? other vendors have so far, and its a
> pretty cool piece of software (I would buy it from you)  Homeseer has a
> built in web server for X10 control, if you could somehow interface with
> that it would be awesome.  With macros within homeseer you could also run
> just about any program, MP3's also.
> 
>     Andy
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Farver" <mf...@mi...>
> To: "Chris Maresca" <ck...@cr...>
> Cc: <etc...@li...>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [etc-users] ETC features?
> 
> 
> > On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Chris Maresca wrote:
> >
> > > I like it the way it is, although the ability to follow a link other
> than
> > > the default one would be great.  That would allow for more complex
> > > interactions.
> >
> > > 1. support imagemaps (I suppose it kinda does that already)
> > > 2. support other URLs (perhaps a re-direct after touch or something)
> >
> > Are you looking for a more complete webbrowser type interface?  I could
> > handle the HTTP redirect command fairly easily.  (For the unfamiliar when
> > a web browser goes to a certain URL the HTTP spec allows the server to
> > send back a reply that tell the webbrowser to jump to a different URL)
> >
> > Can you describe a little more how you envision things working?  I'm not
> > sure if I understand what you are looking for (client side image maps?)
> >
> > I can see the value of making a ETC a simple browser.. it would be a
> > familiar system for most people.
> >
> > A lot of the support questions I keep getting are related to getting PHP
> > or Apache running... so I have a feeling that a certain percentage of
> > users are stumped by the whole server side image map interface.
> >
> > Other thoughts?
> >
> > I freed some time tonight.. so I will get the refresh problems solved and
> > release a patch.
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Etc-users mailing list
> > Etc...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/etc-users
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Etc-users mailing list
> Etc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/etc-users

--
Chris Kalisiak
CK Computer Systems
http://www.ckcomputersystems.com
Specializing in DEC hardware since 1993

[etc-users] Blank screen errors?

[Mark F. <mf...@mi...>]

Well.. I figured out why ETC was fetching from the webserver but never
displaying the image.  On my machine I had PHP setup without the gd
extensions, so going to the demo.php page was not returning a PNG (Instead
it returns an HTML file with an error message about imagecreate not being
defined)

If the file ETC receives from the webserver is not a valid PNG etc ignores
the file and leaves the last image up on the screen...even if that image
is a blank screen.

So.. if anyone was having problems with ETC always displaying a blank
screen.. try using your PC web browser to go to the script page and see if
you get back a PNG image.  Let us know what the results of that are or if
you do get back a PNG email it to me.

Meanwhile, I'm adding some better error handling code to ETC and I'll
release 0.1.4 as soon as that is in.

Thanks

Mark

mf...@mi...





-- 
"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
-- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States

Re: [etc-users] ETC features?

[<ani...@ho...>]

Why not create a plugin for HomeSeer? other vendors have so far, and its a
pretty cool piece of software (I would buy it from you)  Homeseer has a
built in web server for X10 control, if you could somehow interface with
that it would be awesome.  With macros within homeseer you could also run
just about any program, MP3's also.

    Andy

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <mf...@mi...>
To: "Chris Maresca" <ck...@cr...>
Cc: <etc...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 4:18 PM
Subject: Re: [etc-users] ETC features?


> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Chris Maresca wrote:
>
> > I like it the way it is, although the ability to follow a link other
than
> > the default one would be great.  That would allow for more complex
> > interactions.
>
> > 1. support imagemaps (I suppose it kinda does that already)
> > 2. support other URLs (perhaps a re-direct after touch or something)
>
> Are you looking for a more complete webbrowser type interface?  I could
> handle the HTTP redirect command fairly easily.  (For the unfamiliar when
> a web browser goes to a certain URL the HTTP spec allows the server to
> send back a reply that tell the webbrowser to jump to a different URL)
>
> Can you describe a little more how you envision things working?  I'm not
> sure if I understand what you are looking for (client side image maps?)
>
> I can see the value of making a ETC a simple browser.. it would be a
> familiar system for most people.
>
> A lot of the support questions I keep getting are related to getting PHP
> or Apache running... so I have a feeling that a certain percentage of
> users are stumped by the whole server side image map interface.
>
> Other thoughts?
>
> I freed some time tonight.. so I will get the refresh problems solved and
> release a patch.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Etc-users mailing list
> Etc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/etc-users

Re: [etc-users] DHCP

[Chris M. <ck...@cr...>]

Yes, DHCP is good.  There is also a method for loading an entire OS using
DHCP.

Chris.

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Mark Farver wrote:

> Another question...
> 
> I am thinking of creating a version of ETC that uses DHCP to get its IP
> address.  This way I can make the flash image available on the website.
> Installing a new version of ETC would be as simple as copying flash.exe
> and the image file onto a bootfloppy.
> 
> I'll still make the option to compile your own flash image with a static
> IP address available, as well as source.  I'm just thinking this would be
> a heck of a lot simpler for anyone who has a DHCP server.
> 
> Do most of you have the ability to have DHCP servers on your networks?
> 
> Mark
> 
> -- 
> "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
> zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
> -- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Etc-users mailing list
> Etc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/etc-users
> 

--
chris maresca
      internet systems architect -- www.chrismaresca.com

"Every day you may make progress. Every step may be fruitful. Yet there will stretch
out before you an ever-lengthening, ever-ascending path. You know you will never get
to the end of the journey. But this, so far from discouraging, only adds to the joy
and glory of the climb."                          [Sir Winston Churchill, 1874-1965]

Re: [etc-users] ETC features?

[Chris M. <ck...@cr...>]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Mark Farver wrote:

> On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Chris Maresca wrote:
> 
> > I like it the way it is, although the ability to follow a link other than
> > the default one would be great.  That would allow for more complex
> > interactions.
> 
> > 1. support imagemaps (I suppose it kinda does that already)
> > 2. support other URLs (perhaps a re-direct after touch or something)
> 
> Are you looking for a more complete webbrowser type interface?  I could
> handle the HTTP redirect command fairly easily.  (For the unfamiliar when
> a web browser goes to a certain URL the HTTP spec allows the server to
> send back a reply that tell the webbrowser to jump to a different URL)
> 
> Can you describe a little more how you envision things working?  I'm not
> sure if I understand what you are looking for (client side image maps?)

In traditional server-side imagemaps, the coordinates get sent to the
server, it translates it into a redirect statement (I think) that cause
the browser to get a new object.  

The two important things here are, I think:

1. Ability to send coordinates to an arbitrary URL
2. Support for redirects
 
> I can see the value of making a ETC a simple browser.. it would be a
> familiar system for most people.
> 
> A lot of the support questions I keep getting are related to getting PHP
> or Apache running... so I have a feeling that a certain percentage of
> users are stumped by the whole server side image map interface.

Hhmm, may be true, but those same people will have issues flashing the ROM
as well, never mind writing client <-> server bits.  At least if you are
supporting generic web transports, people can install MS Personal
WebServer and it's server side imagemap support.

Right now, the biggest issue in developing applications using ETC is
having to generate images on the fly, thereby requiring some pretty
complex server side coding.

That's what I think you should address.  Simplify the way images are sent
back and forth, and you'll probably get fewer questions.

Chris.

--
chris maresca
      internet systems architect -- www.chrismaresca.com

"Every day you may make progress. Every step may be fruitful. Yet there will stretch
out before you an ever-lengthening, ever-ascending path. You know you will never get
to the end of the journey. But this, so far from discouraging, only adds to the joy
and glory of the climb."                          [Sir Winston Churchill, 1874-1965]

Re: [etc-users] ETC features?

[Mark F. <mf...@mi...>]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Chris Maresca wrote:

> I like it the way it is, although the ability to follow a link other than
> the default one would be great.  That would allow for more complex
> interactions.

> 1. support imagemaps (I suppose it kinda does that already)
> 2. support other URLs (perhaps a re-direct after touch or something)

Are you looking for a more complete webbrowser type interface?  I could
handle the HTTP redirect command fairly easily.  (For the unfamiliar when
a web browser goes to a certain URL the HTTP spec allows the server to
send back a reply that tell the webbrowser to jump to a different URL)

Can you describe a little more how you envision things working?  I'm not
sure if I understand what you are looking for (client side image maps?)

I can see the value of making a ETC a simple browser.. it would be a
familiar system for most people.

A lot of the support questions I keep getting are related to getting PHP
or Apache running... so I have a feeling that a certain percentage of
users are stumped by the whole server side image map interface.

Other thoughts?

I freed some time tonight.. so I will get the refresh problems solved and
release a patch.


Mark

Re: [etc-users] DHCP

[Jason K. <jk...@re...>]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2001 at 03:58:46PM -0500, Mark Farver wrote:
> 
> I am thinking of creating a version of ETC that uses DHCP to get its IP
> address.  This way I can make the flash image available on the website.
> Installing a new version of ETC would be as simple as copying flash.exe
> and the image file onto a bootfloppy.
> 
> I'll still make the option to compile your own flash image with a static
> IP address available, as well as source.  I'm just thinking this would be
> a heck of a lot simpler for anyone who has a DHCP server.
> 
> Do most of you have the ability to have DHCP servers on your networks?
> 
Yes, this would be a big step forward (for me at least), it seems that anyone
who can run a web server to serve the png images, could run a dhcp server on
the same machine...

-- 
Red Hat Professional Consulting                 Jason Kohles
(703)786-8036 (cellular)                        jk...@re...

Re: [etc-users] ETC features?

[Chris M. <ck...@cr...>]

On Tue, 16 Oct 2001, Mark Farver wrote:

> Well.. I can't say I've made big progress in solving bugs.  I've got too
> many other projects sucking my time.  You have my aplogies... I'll try to
> find some time..
> 
> However I was thinking the other day about the problem at hand.  While I
> orginally designed ETC to be infinitely flexible, it isn't all that easy
> to use.

I like it the way it is, although the ability to follow a link other than
the default one would be great.  That would allow for more complex
interactions.
 
> What do you all really want to do with ETC?  Home control? MP3 headend?

All of the above.

> Is Linux on the server side too much to handle?

Not for me, I have 5 servers in my house....  Yes, I know.

> I thought of a different way to attack the problem.. its not as elegant as
> the whole http PNG fetch system, but it might be more flexible and much
> easier to build front ends for.
> 
> Basically the ETC terminal becomes a dumb graphics screen.  The server
> connects to the Citadel and then a text based protocol can be used to
> perform operations.  So there would be commands for drawing a line,
> circle, bitmap and the like.  The terminal would spit back any
> touches.

I don't think that would be easier.  There are two things that would make
it easier:

1. support imagemaps (I suppose it kinda does that already)
2. support other URLs (perhaps a re-direct after touch or something)

I think that the above would make it possible for anyone with FrontPage or
similar to build an imagemap driven site that would do stuff.

> Now that system in itself wouldn't be terrible useful.. but it would be
> fairly easy to write servers customized to one task or another.  So for
> example a Winamp "control" plugin could be writen that would take the
> displays IP address as a parameter, and draw a control screen.
> 
> Another server could connect to an X11 CM11a interface and do the
> floorplan lights on/off functionality.
> 
> But it would be harder to have a server that did both X10 and Winamp..
> (since only one server could talk to a display at a time)
> 
> It would be easier to install the server side software, since it wouldn't
> involve IIS or Apache.  It could just be a dumb Windows program, with a
> standard installshield installation.

Hhhmm, that would be a step backwards for me.  I don't use Windows for
server type stuff.
 
> Would you be willing to pay for the servers?

Not if it only runs on WinX...  I would be willing to contribute time and
code (perhaps money), but I think that client-server is the wrong way to
go.

> The terminal side would remain free.. as would the protocol to use it.
> 
> Thoughts?

I think that if the current system was stable and bug free, we could worry
about extending it for other things.  Redesigning would not be as usefull
as making everything work right.

Chris.

> Mark
> mf...@mi...
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
> zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
> -- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Etc-users mailing list
> Etc...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/etc-users
> 

--
chris maresca
      internet systems architect -- www.chrismaresca.com

"Every day you may make progress. Every step may be fruitful. Yet there will stretch
out before you an ever-lengthening, ever-ascending path. You know you will never get
to the end of the journey. But this, so far from discouraging, only adds to the joy
and glory of the climb."                          [Sir Winston Churchill, 1874-1965]

[etc-users] DHCP

[Mark F. <mf...@mi...>]

Another question...

I am thinking of creating a version of ETC that uses DHCP to get its IP
address.  This way I can make the flash image available on the website.
Installing a new version of ETC would be as simple as copying flash.exe
and the image file onto a bootfloppy.

I'll still make the option to compile your own flash image with a static
IP address available, as well as source.  I'm just thinking this would be
a heck of a lot simpler for anyone who has a DHCP server.

Do most of you have the ability to have DHCP servers on your networks?

Mark

-- 
"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
-- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States

[etc-users] ETC features?

[Mark F. <mf...@mi...>]

Well.. I can't say I've made big progress in solving bugs.  I've got too
many other projects sucking my time.  You have my aplogies... I'll try to
find some time..

However I was thinking the other day about the problem at hand.  While I
orginally designed ETC to be infinitely flexible, it isn't all that easy
to use.

What do you all really want to do with ETC?  Home control? MP3 headend?
Is Linux on the server side too much to handle?

I thought of a different way to attack the problem.. its not as elegant as
the whole http PNG fetch system, but it might be more flexible and much
easier to build front ends for.

Basically the ETC terminal becomes a dumb graphics screen.  The server
connects to the Citadel and then a text based protocol can be used to
perform operations.  So there would be commands for drawing a line,
circle, bitmap and the like.  The terminal would spit back any
touches.

Now that system in itself wouldn't be terrible useful.. but it would be
fairly easy to write servers customized to one task or another.  So for
example a Winamp "control" plugin could be writen that would take the
displays IP address as a parameter, and draw a control screen.

Another server could connect to an X11 CM11a interface and do the
floorplan lights on/off functionality.

But it would be harder to have a server that did both X10 and Winamp..
(since only one server could talk to a display at a time)

It would be easier to install the server side software, since it wouldn't
involve IIS or Apache.  It could just be a dumb Windows program, with a
standard installshield installation.

Would you be willing to pay for the servers?

The terminal side would remain free.. as would the protocol to use it.

Thoughts?

Mark
mf...@mi...



-- 
"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
-- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States

[etc-users] Re: [etc]: ETC-0.1.3patch released

[Chris K. <ch...@ck...>]

Just a quick follow-up to this one -- I decided to push
forward and try the other Citadel. Both of them exhibit
the same behavior. I do actually have four of them
at my disposal, but the other two still have the token
ring card and all of the associated screws and hardware
installed... But I'm inclined to think there's something
else going on -- a random sampling of two touchscreens
shouldn't result in two bad ones...

And I checked the apache logfiles, and all I see is one
load of etc.bin, and five seconds later, a load of demo.php.
I touched the display a few times, but there's no mention
of those actions in the apache logs.

Comments?

Thanks,
Chris


At 08:52 PM 9/9/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, George Fetters wrote:
>
> > I am still not getting the etc.bin to make the correct call to the demo.php
> > program.  When I send the command
> > http://192.168.1.103/touch/demo.php?x=20&y=30 from a browser I get the
> >
> > X:20 Y:30 and the small box on the screen.  When I touch the screen 
> from the
> > citadel I get the
> > X: Y: and no box.
>
>It sounds like a fault with the touchscreen.  I think you said typing on
>the keyboard does cause a GET.  I have a program lying around here that
>tests the touchscreen alone, let me find it and send it out.
>
>Thanks
>Mark
>
>--
>"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
>zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
>-- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States

-- 
Chris Kalisiak
CK Computer Systems
http://www.ckcomputersystems.com
Specializing in DEC hardware since 1993

[etc-users] Re: [etc]: ETC-0.1.3patch released

[Chris K. <ch...@ck...>]

Hello,

    Ok, I yanked the 4MB SIMMs, and dropped in 4MB of 1MB SIMMs,
and now I see the "X: Y:" in the corner. Not sure what the memories
have to do with it, but I guess I'll just stick with the 4MB. So, that
problem has been resolved.

    Now the next problem is the same thing that George saw a
month ago -- when I touch the screen, nothing happens. I see
that the demo.php file is just a function call, so I guess the
etc.bin is not being run after the initial call. Did you find the
program that you used to test the touchscreen to find out if
it even works? I have a second Citadel, but it's not up and
running yet. I don't think I'll be able to try the second one
tonight, and I'm booked tomorrow night, but I can try the second
one over the weekend if there's no sign of the testing utility.

Thanks,
Chris


At 08:52 PM 9/9/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, George Fetters wrote:
>
> > I am still not getting the etc.bin to make the correct call to the demo.php
> > program.  When I send the command
> > http://192.168.1.103/touch/demo.php?x=20&y=30 from a browser I get the
> >
> > X:20 Y:30 and the small box on the screen.  When I touch the screen 
> from the
> > citadel I get the
> > X: Y: and no box.
>
>It sounds like a fault with the touchscreen.  I think you said typing on
>the keyboard does cause a GET.  I have a program lying around here that
>tests the touchscreen alone, let me find it and send it out.
>
>Thanks
>Mark
>
>--
>"The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious enroachment by men of
>zeal, well-meaning but without understanding."
>-- Justice Louis O. Brandeis, Olmstead vs. United States

-- 
Chris Kalisiak
CK Computer Systems
http://www.ckcomputersystems.com
Specializing in DEC hardware since 1993

[etc-users] Re: [etc]: ETC-0.1.3patch released

[Chris K. <ch...@ck...>]

> > > the code tonight, and see if I can't get a more robust version running.  I
> > > have a feeling this is caused by a lack of disk space to store the PNG
> > > temporarily.. but I need to add some debug code to prove it.
> >
> > I would think it's more likely a permissions problem, since I have a
> > few GB of free disk space. I'll check the permissions, and if I don't
> > have write enabled, I'll enable them, and will post my results.
> 
> 
> Sorry.. I didn't explain that clearly.  At the moment ETC downloads the
> PNG file from the webserver and saves it into a file in /tmp on the
> Citadel.  Then libpng reads that file and displays it to the screen.  I
> suspect the problem is limited space on /tmp.  Since the citadel has no
> internal harddisk /tmp is an internal ramdisk, and is tiny (about 300k).

Hmm... How difficult is it to tweak the size? And maybe my setup is part of the problem? 

I have a set of 4MB SIMMs in the Citadel, using 12MB of the 16MB (I was never able to figure out how to use all 16MB and still have the Citadel boot to the DOS image that was in flash). Maybe I should revert back to the original 4MB of memory (1MB SIMMs), reset the memory size, and try again. 
 
> What I should do is rewrite ETC to stream the file to memory, that would
> remove the need for temp space and probably speed things up as well.
> 
> So no write permission are needed on the webserver, and the webserver only
> needs enough disk space to store the demo.php file.

Interesting.
 
> I'll let you know how it goes tommorrow.

I'll do the same.

Thanks,
Chris

--
Chris Kalisiak
CK Computer Systems
http://www.ckcomputersystems.com
Specializing in DEC hardware since 1993

[etc-users] Blank screen bug

[mfarver <mf...@mi...>]

On Sun, 30 Sep 2001, Chris Kalisiak wrote:

> loading the etc.bin file correctly. The problem I'm running
> into now is that the touchscreen's screen is completely
> blank when running the demo.php that's currently on
> sourceforge. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but it

The good news: after a couple of night of playing around with .1.3 I have
succeeded in duplicating the problem.  ETC is very clearly detecting the
touches and fetching from the webserver, but it never displays anything
but a blank screen.

The bad news, I haven't figured out what I did to cause this, or for that
matter what to do to remedy the problem.  Anyhow, I'm going to play with
the code tonight, and see if I can't get a more robust version running.  I
have a feeling this is caused by a lack of disk space to store the PNG
temporarily.. but I need to add some debug code to prove it.

Thanks
Mark Farver