Equalizer APO defies gravity and refuses to function properly
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#204 Equalizer APO defies gravity and refuses to function properly
Hi!
(Quick premise: these are issues I've had before but to a lesser extent, because they either weren't relevant to me or because there was some magic workaround for them. Now both statements aren't true anymore, so I'll have to ask here for help)
So, I've played around a lot with audio funnies with friends in voice chat for several years now. In all that time everything worked fine, except for Equalizer APO. I mean it worked "fine": press button, funny sound comes out. Long story short, I don't know why it worked. But it did work, so... I just left it at that. A few days ago I tried booting up my whole setup to try and fix all the problems I have always had, just for fun. And uh...
These are my finds so far:
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Equalizer APO might as well not work for me, and as a matter of fact, it doesn't: the default GUI lets me turn on and off effects like preamp and EQ, like normal. But if I try to change the selected device to apply them to by using the list at the top, it just... doesn't do it; the effects stay on the same device even if it displays another one. Saving the config file each time I modify something doesn't help either; same goes for creating a new config file
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When using the EQ on the default GUI (and most likely Peace's too, but I value my ears more) it either:
- works! (more on that later)
- makes a disgusting and painful static noise when any audio passes through, alone or with other effects, until it's turned off
- it works like normal (or not), then after a while the bass just keeps getting higher and higher until it cuts off and you can't hear anything (I haven't tried it with treble, please don't ask me to)
- works. Then after I come back from the kitchen it just doesn't work anymore. Then it does
- go figure
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If I use Peace instead, I "can" select different devices. In the sense that if I choose anything other than [All devices] or [Current device] it just doesn't work. Which device gets to be [Current device] and work until I restart my PC is up for debate
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[Current device] will work until I restart my PC, or thinker with anything EAPO related
(Note: everything from here on will be done with Peace)
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If the EQ works the funny sound effect is wrong: when I used to do it I would hear whatever was coming out of the virtual output in a PS4 party with a secondary account myself (the account joined with PS Remote Play hooked up to Voicemeeter and everything). Be it bass boosting or ear piercing, it was just like using the amplifying tool in Audacity: crisp and detailed. But then again I didn't actually know what was going on, so. If I try to do it now it either won't let me or whatever gets into my ears from whichever output sounds "limited". Bass is there, but everything else is just so low. Preamp basically does nothing at all and is useless (unless you slide it the other way). It just makes quiet sounds louder. You may know what I mean. On VERY rare occasions (one so far) the correct effect will play just fine when Peace is turned on (still no clue where it will be played from though)
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On that note, I can actually still earrape whatever I'm hearing... sort of?
It's not worth going into much detail, so I'll keep it simple:
If you fiddle around with the ON/OFF switch at some point you gradually start to hear the audio getting fried more and more, until it stays like that until you turn the EQ off, then it remains fried (a bit less since you've turned off the EQ) for around 1.5 seconds, then goes back to normal. It's the same amount of time every time and can be repeated as many times as you want.
Also when it works in the "limited" state, and you apply any effect that increases the volume, THEN turn it off, the audio becomes quieter the higher the volume gain you applied was, and then gradually goes back up to its normal level. This happens either with or without using Voicemeeter -
I've tried using both SFX/EFX and SFX/MFX as suggested, and only when pushing it at its limits (preamp and bass sliders) you can hear a difference, but at that point you might as well just go outside. LFX/GFX straight up didn't work, but that might've been an exception. Or maybe not, I don't care. For now I'll keep everything on SFX/EFX
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When using Peace along with Voicemeeter the blue [A] and [R] symbols don't light up on their own. I need to run the VoicemeeterClient.exe executable in EAPO's folder before I start up Peace. Or after. Now that I think about it I don't know when it's even supposed to trigger. Maybe when you select a Voicemeeter specific input/output? Both ways yeld the same result: it's broken. So far Voicemeeter worked just fine though
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Tried moving EAPO's install folder (with a fresh setup) to my OS drive still under "Program Files". Works just as good as before
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Tried base Voicemeeter, Banana and Potato. Whatever input, be it my microphone, virtual cable or Voicemeeter output device. Same thing: at random (because I'm too lazy to figure out why, but I think it's usually the default output device set in the Windows sound panel) a device, output or input will be chosen to be the one that will work until I give up and restart the PC
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Yes, I've ticked, unticked then reticked the "Enable audio enhancements" box under every audio device and tried every possible scenario. No luck
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Admin priviliges don't help
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I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling Realtek drivers about a dozen times. Twice. If I completely uninstall them they just come back on their own even with Windows automatic updates or internet plugged off, and given that without them my 3.5mm jacks won't work, that's a good thing
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Equalizer APO aside, my rig never had any audio related issues or anything at all for that matter
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My current Voicemeeter is Potato x64 with no fancy settings applied (not that I'd know how to do that in the first place) and I'm on Windows 10, whichever the last update is
Let me clarify, I'm not mad at anyone but my PC here. Equalizer APO and Peace are amazing softwares and I've had lots of fun with them, and I thank both developers of both for that! Also sorry if this isn't exactly easy to digest or troubleshoot; I've tried keeping this as short as possible without missing important details, mostly things I couldn't find online already. So thank you for your patience!
Back to the topic of unfunny jokes; from experience I know that there are two things that can happen when you "increase the volume": the "boring" effect and the "crisp" effect, and I want to achieve the latter. I also don't know how both effects are produced differently for one another, so there's that. But regardless, at the moment EAPO literally does not work for me, and as far as I'm concerned it hasn't since 2016 (it used to work "better", now it just doesn't).
Given everything I've tried, I wouldn't be surprised if on top of compatibility issues the "boring" effect was caused by a limiter in the Realtek drivers. That or Windows updates messing things up.
I was hoping I'd be able to fix everything on my own, but I'm at a dead end right now.
TL;DR: I want the funni mic, but Equalizer APO doesn't work properly, if at all. Everything else appears to be nominal.
Feel free to ask questions.
Perhaps I can assists. I picked a few quotes to address them.
That's not the way to do it. Please, ignore the device dropdown box at the top. The proper method is: First add a device selection command then your eq or other commands for that selected device.
Saving a config file isn't needed. Equalizer APO always reads the "config.txt" file. And after creating a new config file the only way to let Equalizer APO read it is by adding an include file command (for this new config file) in "config.txt".
Probably because you're using the GraphicEQ command ("Graphic equalizers") which has its issues. Also avoid introducing frequencies above 22050 Hz.
Not likely because by default Peace uses peak filters for eq-ing to avoid the issues you're talking about. Somehow convolution in Equalizer APO has issues (so the GraphicEQ and convolution commands). We don't know why.
The current device is the one you have selected in Windows or which Windows has selected by itself for instance when switching o a Bluetooth headset or attaching a HDMI cable / switching on a TV/monitor. The device selected in Peace or Equalizer APO isn't automatically being selected in Windows, it only lets the commands perform on the selected device. You still have to select (make it default) in Windows yourself. Tip: This can be done by right clicking on the Peace peak value meter and make a device default.
A few notes. Keep the gain level low, meaning if you have cranked up the sliders lower the pre amplifying slider. Some audio drivers will try to compensate when the sound gets to loud (avoiding clipping). That may the issue you're talking about. A good indication is the Peace peak value meter (below the sliders) if it's sometimes in the red you have to dial down the pre amp slider. Either to avoid clipping when there isn't a limiting action done by Windows or the driver. Or to avoid limting when there is a limiting action being performed. Limiting may distort the sound big time.
Also a Windows update may contain new audio drivers which may work differently. The most famous one: LFX/GFX stops working and SFX/EFX will work. Not a surprise as this is Windows 10/11 technique. But after installation of these new drivers Equalizer APO (thus Peace) may stop working. Probably you have experience this already but getting Equalizer APO back to work on an audio driver (work at all or work without issues) can be a challenge sometimes. Btw. Windows 11 is still in development (read unstable) so being Windows 10 is probably the best although the audio drivers may prove to be the issue here. But you have tried different versions if I'm reading your post correctly.
This mandatory. Without it Equalizer APO can't get to VoiceMeeter thus no audio change on A1 to A5. A note on using VoiceMeeter: There can be heavy distortions when EQ-ing A1, A2, etc. This distortion can be avoided (according to some successful steps by users) by:
- Delaying the startup of VoiceMeeterClient.exe (Maybe VoiceMeeter has to be started first here before VoiceMeeterClient.exe but I don't know this for a fact).
- Setting all sample rates to the same value.
- Not using the P-cores of the CPU (if any. Only new Intel CPU's have these cores).
- Not using threads of the CPU (This is a very bad advice but it seemed to work for one user).
Btw. I'm not the developer of Equalizer APO. I'm the developer of Peace. However, I do the main support on both projects but I can't change Equalizer APO (project nor software).
Thanks for the answers!
Yeah, I wasn't sure that was the right way. I think I remember it used to work back on my laptop.
I only used the stock GUI a couple of times though, so I may very well be wrong about that.
xd
I SWEAR I didn't use to have to do any of that. With Peace I would just select the device and "I would hear the effect being applied.
...on the output of the secondary account in the PS4 party.
Actually, more than one time I went in with that same account playing with a controller via the Remote Play app on my laptop, PC (same results). Using Voicemeeter I could choose what to do with each input and output, and when I used Peace I could just switch to whichever one I preferred without having to worry about it. So I think I can say that yes: switching devices in Peace would apply the effect to the actual device selected. At least, used to.
Also:
Second screen (I couldn't be bothered to make a new image :P):
playing a youtube video with Voicemeeter set as default device.
First screen: playing an audio clip on foobar with Voicemeeter set as default device.
The first works fine: I can toggle the 5 outputs on and off however I want and apply Voicemeeter's effects to the virtual input . Changing default device also results in sound being played through said device. Sound also comes out my headphones as you can see in the sound panel (that's how it should work, right?), and you can adjust the ACTUAL volume of what you're hearing via the [Levels] panel in the device's properties. Which is something I've found out about just two days ago, and had to live with lower-than-usual volume for all this time, because I thought Voicemeeter was just like that (since Windows' volume slider doesn't work with it and is always at max volume, regardless. Unless you bring it down to 0).
Yay.
The second however is where I found an issue already, but didn't think it would actually come out again:
I'm playing the clip through VB Cable, which then goes into Voicemeeter (because I can toggle it on and off in VM's output settings), which then goes into my headphones. Not directly into the "NVIDIA RTX Voice" output, which should just result in silence since I'm not using any of that. I've also tried setting NVIDIA RTX Voice to both "Default Device" and "Default Communication Device"; the sound still comes out from Voicemeeter. This happens only in the first screen case. If I play something "natively" it works as intended: you can see the sound being played in the device in the sound panel and I can't hear anything.
Basically, no matter what I do Voicemeeter will always be on and playing through its [A1-A5] device (my headphones), regardless of Window's settings. Don't know if it helps anyone but I thought it was worth mentioning. I've googled a bit about it without meaningful results, then left it at that since it's not that problematic for me. Restarting it doesn't help. This happens with the headphones set to both WDM and MME.
Also, half the time I switch between them, with or without sound being played, when they fire up again the sound is robotic and distorted even when switching back. This doesn't bother me that much since I can just NOT switch between them. Guess I'll look into it.
And yes, I've just tried it, and got the same result. Which means that after I finish this post I'll have to restart everything -__-
Again.
Going back to Peace, switching default device in the sound panel STILL doesn't do anything. Once I start my computer up the only device I can apply EQ to is my headphones. And yes, in both screens the device chosen in Peace is the same default device, but no effect is applied. If I switch back to my headphones then it works.
Also no, I'm not talking about [Voicemeeter, Output A1], I'm talking about [Speakers, Realtek(R) audio] (as shown in Peace, but I didn't show it). That doesn't work either.
no
I think I remember it either activating on its own or not having to on my laptop. Good to know.
I know. And don't worry, I won't ask you or anyone to change the code or update EAPO, or Peace for that matter. As far as I know they work just fine for 95% of users, so I'm sure it's just a problem on my end.
Hopefully when I hit [Post] you'll be able to see the image and won't have to send it again.
Of course. The commands are applied on the selected device. You will hear it if the device is also switched on in Windows, in your case the PS4 party.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to help you. Using VoiceMeeter and its (virtual) devices is out of my league. I know only the basics. You have a complex setup which I don't fully get.
I don't understand why you can influence the main speaker Realtek output. Of course some troubleshooting option could be needed but you seemed to have tried every one. Btw. Are there 2 devices: headphones and speakers? On my laptop that's one device (Realtek).
I'm not sure if it's related but if there's a communication device, in your case NVidia, it might be that this device needs to be uninstalled before Equalizer APO works on the (other) NVidia device. But this is usually only the case for Bluetooth communication devices so I don't know if this is an issue.
Another issue is the usage of the VoiceMeeter Input and Aux Input devices. Equalizer APO does support Virtual devices A1 to A5 (or A3 for older versions). But these 2 VoiceMeeter devices aren't supported or at least not that I know. In principle it's wrong to list them in the Peace devices list. But they're there because a future Equalizer APO version could support them.
Of course I got the formatting wrong >:/
If I had to guess, Voicemeeter is not the problem here. It'd be handy to have a physical output like a set of speakers to switch between them and my headphones. Maybe there's some around the house.
And by the way yes, they're called "Speakers" in the sound panel. Most likely because they're plugged in the motherboard backpanel in the... um... back. Of the case.
Oh ok, I got the wrong idea: I thought you meant that for a device to be applied an effect to with Peace you also had to select it as default device. And I mean... duh, you won't be able to hear the thing if it's not set to be the one to be heard. Of course I could still hear it in the party chat because Voicemeeter handled everything and then I could hear its output, which was set as default recording device.
Now that I think about it, I guess it makes sense:
If the way Voicemeeter operates, is to get whatever goes in it, and route it to your selected output (which doesn't have to be set as default in the sound panel), then I guess it makes sense that I can influence it if I wanted to. That'd also explain how (no idea why) Voicemeeter keeps sending audio to it even when it's switched off in the sound panel. If I remember correctly, it also works if it's literally disabled.
Still, that doesn't explain why it is the ONLY one that can have the EQ applied to.
I don't get what you mean by "other" NVIDIA device or why it would matter if Equalizer APO was to work with it. I mean sure there are like 5 in the sound panel, but those are for my two monitors and RTX Voice. And yes, it's disabled and doesn't catch any input.
By the way, on Voicemeeter, under THE virtual input (the first of the three under "VIRTUAL INPUTS") it shows what is playing and how loud it is. And there's always this "NVIDIA Container" thingy going on there like in the picture. I don't remember it being there like a year ago, which is when I stopped doing these kinds of things.
I think you mixed things up here:
- Voicemeeter has 5 hardware inputs and 3 virtual inputs (basically your PC's system audio). Whichever of the three you choose, in app or through the sound panel is up to you
- It also had 5 hardware outputs (speakers or headphones) and three virtual outputs (what apps listen to, and where your mic audio goes). Again, you get which one gets listened to, again, via app settings, or as a global default, in the sound panel
What you probably meant was that EAPO doesn't support the "Input" (called "VAIO" in Voicemeeter) and "AUX", which...
...what?
As far as I know they're all the same, except three of them. And with fancy names that as far as I know don't mean anything. And they are literally the same ones for each of the three Voicemeeters, having one more ins/outs with each upgrade.
Are you saying they're not supported?
Well if we're talking about the 4 VoiceMeeter devices called "VoiceMeeter (Aux) Input/Output". My notion is based on the fact that the Configuration Editor of Equalizer APO doesn't allow the selection of either one of these devices. Probably because these devices don't have the Windows APO ability so Equalizer APO can't work on them. Therefore it's all about the Virtual devices A1 to A5 which Equalizer APO does support
Indeed. But applying an effect or EQ on A1 to A5 does work. In this there lies the solution. You can't get Equalizer APO to work on Realtek Speakers so you need to use VoiceMeeter to apply the EQ on these Realtek speakers.
[the image goes here for dramatic effect]
???
If you're talking about Equalizer APO, no. It won't work on those. But I assume you meant to try this instead:
Which well, defeats my main purpose, which is to do the funny mic. Voicemeeter just won't cut it.
Let me clarify something: I want to make EAPO work on every I/O like it used to. But that doesn't mean that I want to use it to hurt my ears; just others'. Hence why the funny has to go in the microphone, not my headphones. I've tried it on them just to see what results I could get, which so far is the only thing I managed to do, anyway.
No, again you're looking at the wrong device dropdown. As said, ignore this selection list as it doesn't select the device. It's only there for drawing the graph on the Analysis panel below. It's very confusing. If I was the developer I would move this device list to the Analysis panel. Anyway, the actual selection of a device is done by a device selection command and this command doesn't have the devices I was talking about. One way to look at it is by looking at the config.txt file. If it contains a device selection command then you know it's being selected. The above dropdown box doesn't introduce such a command.
I understand but it's the only way to use VoiceMeeter. That's why VoiceMeeterClient.exe is started at computer startup: It makes the virtual devices A1 to A5 accessable for Equalizer APO to do its audio changing action you order it to do.
In principle what you want is possible with Equalizer APO. Well, perhaps without some funny mic stuff like sounding your voice like a robot or so. Moreover VoiceMeeter is used for routing and mixing audio streams but it's a bit difficult to understand it and set up. And it can be used to change the audio with Equalizer APO commands via its virtual devices A1 and A5. But one can encounter issues. Either by not using it correctly or by things which just won't work out of the box.
Ah sorry, thanks for pointing that out (again)!
Yeah, I was referring to my particular case, not to the fact that the app might be busted. And yes, I'd need to fire up VoicemeeterClient.exe to use A1-A5. Too bad it won't work for me either way. As for setting up Voicemeeter properly: it's just like it used to be a year ago. Everything works as intended, except Equalizer APO.
By the way I'll be using Peace from now on to run my tests since it's not as much of a hassle (no shame in the stock GUI).
I'll keep looking into this.
Good luck! I feel I've not been much of a help. At least I could give some tips :)
Aw don't sweat it. Thanks!
So, I've tried uninstalling everything: Voicemeeter, its cables, EAPO and Peace. Also something called "ASIO4ALL" which I had to install for Potato (I think). This time it didn't ask me to install it again, so there's that.
I've got everything back, rebooting each step of the way. And I've still got the problem where only one device works; this time it's my mic. Tried it with my two virtual cables too (Hi-Fi and normal one) so far.
Yes, I've started VoicemeeterClient.exe after Voicemeeter. I haven't chosen my speakers in the configurator yet just to see if it made a difference, since I wouldn't even need to affect them in the first place. Maybe I'll try it later.
ALSO also, is there a way to change a device output's sample rate in EAPO? Or Voicemeeter (per input, not globally)? I haven't seen any option like that in either one. If I just go into the sound control panel I can change my mic's from 48khz to 44kz, which is not bad enough. On the virtual cables though I can set it to basically any value, which is nice. Maybe I can figure out how to route my microphone into one of them, and then change its sample rate. It'd be handy if I could just do it for the actual device I need to change though.
So is there an app that can do that?
That would be an interesting feature. But for all Audio Processing Objects in Windows including Equalizer APO, they only grab the audio stream with its sample rate and process it and give it back. Perhaps by VoiceMeeter has such a sample rate option but I don't know. But it doesn't matter as the input or output device is bound to its maximum possible sample rate value, be it a hardware ADC (input) or DAC (output). The only surprise here is that the sample rates for the common Realtek hardware it so low, either 48 kHz or 44.1 kHz (which we can set in Windows). Nowadays hardware for 96 kHz or higher would be entirely possible (read cheap). On the other hand for playing and streaming music 48 kHz or even 44.1 kHz is perfectly good enough. But I expected by now 96 kHz would be the lowest limit. This makes working with DAW's much better.
So is there another app? I don't think so knowing the above. But it's worth to Google for solutions.
Hmmm... If I can't get my Blue Yeti to sound even worse than I already can, I think I'll just get a second handed C920 off of eBay and tape it to the side of it for added funni and ease of "use".
Still, I have to sort out things here. I've spent the night scouring between forums, but to no avail.
One user on another site though had the same issue as me, which I haven't pointed out yet.
In Equinizer APO's configurator:
outputs A1-A5 can be ticked, but in the troubleshooting options, "Install APO" on both pre and post-mix boxes remain blank, and clicking them won't tick em. Also I can't change from LFX/GFX at all, nor tick "Allow silent buffer modification".
The rest of the playback devices all work fine: I can select whatever I want, and when I close/reboot, if I choose SFX/EFX it will stay there if I go check on it again.
In the capture devices tab though if I choose SFX/EFX, then close/reboot, when I get back it will have changed to SFX/MFX, even my microphone, which is currently the only device Equador APO. The rest can all be ticked except post-mix APO. In both tabs I can't "Use original APO".
Also:
Screw Realtek. I was going to get a DAC anyway.
And sorry for the formatting. I used hyphenes for the lists in my first post, but I can't seem to get them working anymore >:c
If the "Use original APO" are greyed out then usually it means there aren't any sound enhancements (APO's) working on that device. And usually that's a good sign as Equalizer APO is an APO too and it might be incompatible with a sound enhancement.
If the Configurator revert to SFX/MFX after setting it on SFX/EFX usually means that there's something isn't right with SFX/EFX. But it would be okay to have SFX/MFX if it works. Both 2 are Windows 10 and 11 APO's techniques.
The virtual devices A1 to A5 don't have entries in the Configurator. That's because they aren't "real" Windows devices so they can't be in the Configurator (hence VoiceMeeterClient.exe as said). To be even precise, they don't have APO (Audio Processing Object) capabilities like normal audio devices. Somehow Equalizer APO (equalizerapo.dll) manages to get to their audio streams via VoiceMeeterClient.exe.
Yep! After having PC's and Windows for more than 30 years, the default audio hardware and software is crap. All mighty things are possible video-wise speaking but the audio hasn't progressed at all in Windows hence the popularity of Peace and Equalizer APO. 2 apps that shouldn't exist in the first place if Microsoft and Realtek did their jobs properly. Knowing there are many Realtek hardware chips and versions why we're still on 48 kHz without any decent audio interface?
My best guess would be that it's because unless you're setting up a big server or even just know what you need/want, you'll be getting dedicated hardware regardless of what your motherboard comes outfitted with. 48kHz doesn't bring any compatibility issues with it and it's still good-sounding for the general consumer market, so most people won't even care.
I wouldn't expect much from on-board chips anyway.
pic related
Would that be worth investigating to see if anything useful comes out?
I've tried routing my microphone into VB cable, and yeah I can! You just go into sound control panel and "hear" it on the virtual cable, which is picked up in Voicemeeter, which then goes into your headphones. But even then, Eq-tip APO wouldn't work.
Speaking of which:
NOW IT DOES!!1
I... guess?
Yeah, it works now! But I'm not holding my breath. I'll run some more tests and update you on the matter.
So you're making progress :) That's nice. Your efforts pay off.
I'm under the impression if some software programmer is programming SFX/MFX it wouldn't be that difficult to implement SFX/EFX too. But there isn't much effort put into audio software and hardware. It isn't about compatibility. I guess it's just economics: earning money with the least effort. And as you said, most people don't care.
Ok:
Now when I switch between the capture devices I've selected in the configurator, I can actually apply effects to them (everything is still going through Voicemeeter)! Those would be the Hi-Fi and normal VB cables, and my microphone. Before if I managed to make them work, the funny sound effect would be "boring" and toned down; now when I do it, it becomes "fried" just like it should. What I did was switching my two virtual cables' "install mode" from SFX/MFX to LFX/GFX, and that seems to have done the trick!
The mic is still set to SFX/MFX, but changing it to LFX/GFX still works, albeit a bit less "crisp" when the EQ is applied, if my ears do not deceive me.
I've tried my "Realtek (yo mom) Speakers" in each of the three modes. Here are the results:
- LFX/GFX = dud
- SFX/MFX = works
- SFX/EFX = works
The sound is still compressed and not funny by Falsetek, as expected. But that wasn't even what I was going for, so no issues there.
To clarify: if I set my [A1] output in Voicemeeter to be my headphones, and apply the Equalizer APO effect to one of my two virtual cables, which then go into Voicemeeter itself as inputs, you'll hear the funny with no such compression that I was talking about just now. Same goes for the mic.
Going back a few messages:
And you were right: after trying to get those three under "Capture devices" (since there's none under "Playback devices") in all modes except SFX/EFX, since it always defaults to SFX/MFX, I can confirm that EAPO won't work on them. That shouldn't be a huge issue though, because you can just EQ the actual inputs you want EQ'd with automation.
Only bummer is that Resanance (soundboard) worked the first time, then decided to call it a day. Like it has always done with me whenever I tried it, but I'm sure I can get it to work for twice.
Alright, it seems that now everything works as intended. Hopefully some poor soul like me will stumble upon this thread and get their install fixed as well.
If I don't give any update in the next week or so it's because everything's still running fine.
Thanks for the help Peter!
Just great to hear, Felix. Good luck.