#149 Randomly 'ramps up' equalizer well past clipping/distortion

[T R]

This is still an issue. Randomly just 'boosts' up to extremely uncomfortable levels. This issue has been hard to capture as it's been fairly random but this song does it without fail every time as soon as it hits 4:00 mark so I think this might help with troubleshooting the issue.

https://youtu.be/PsO6ZnUZI0g?t=235

I made a topic about this a while ago when I had a logitech g936 headset but I have a steelseries arctis pro now and on a completely different computer (with different install of windows/drivers) and still have the same problem occasionally.

[T R]

Old topic (unresolved): https://sourceforge.net/p/equalizerapo/discussion/general/thread/eacd41b902/?limit=25

attached is my only custom settings. crystal clear and does not distort at all until the issue at hand occurs when I need to stop all audio for a few seconds before it clears.

[Peter Verbeek]

Do this only occur with the Peace configuration you have made? Or also with other ones and/or configurations in the Configuration Editor?

I do see that you've set the maximum limit to 80 dB. That's very high. Any particular reason for this? Looking at your configuration the high gain easily causes clipping thus distortion.

[T R]

I tested it with a few of the other default configs and it does only happen with mine. The 80dB limit wouldve just been a figure I punched in, no reason it's that high.

I played around with peace a bit and found a way to cause the issue to occur. Definitely turn your windows volume down before you try this!
-With the default flat config, I set the preamp to +37dB as an experiment and the issue occurs as soon as any audio plays, until it stops. It's not instant distortion - it ramps up. Try it
-With my custom config, turning the preamp gain down to 14dB and playing the song I linked in the original post, instead of ramping up distortion which continues until I pause the song for a second before resuming it, the audio just stops for a split second and ramps back up to normal
-If I turn my windows volume and even my headset volume down to like 10%, the glitch(s) still occur. It is something within the software that's causing this. Maybe a 'pop' at a certain frequency that causes it to freak out once it goes over a certain level of gain.

I've attached my config as I hope this will help. I understand a 'fix' would just be turning the preamplification down however please understand it sounds exectly how I like it and the audio is clear until this glitch occurs. The difference between say a 10dB preamp and the 18dB preamp I have it set to is night and day as I do like to turn my music up loud at times which does not distort even at maximum volume. The audio remains clear but is obviously just louder

[Peter Verbeek]

Okay, I have the same distortion. But it is related to clipping. By setting the pre amp and the equalization that high, it's not a matter if clipping occurs but a matter of when. Calculation by Equalizer APO for the biquad filters depends on a clipping free signal. As the distortion in the past becomes the base for calculating the present output the distortion will quickly grow larger and larger.

When you look at the peak value meter of Peace, your configuration puts it firmly in the red. That isn't good. I suggest to use the Windows volume slider (beneath the peak value meter or in the Windows system tray) to pump up the volume. Or when you like bass use those sliders and lower the pre amp beneath 0 dB to compensate.

[T R]

I appreciate the input with this issue and I know I'm being a bit ignorant here. When I say that I occasionally listen to music loudly, I mean windows volume and the external control knob at maximum, with the 18dB preamp. I'm not pre-amping it for low level listening. I have it that high because I want it to be loud and it is. No distortion or clipping audible at all.

I see the peak value meter now, I had to restart the software. Having my config running, and turning anti-clipping on makes the software reduce the pre-amp to -5dB when music is playing. So it's mostly making the EQ flat with a 5dB increase in the low end and a 3dB increase in the top end. This may well be all the room I have to play with, but the headset seems to be very quiet.

I'm not a developer for these apps so I don't know exactly how they work in great detail but I strongly believe a random moment of distortion shouldn't make the audio 'run away' like this. I do hope the developer of EqualizerAPO looks to impliment a fix for this 'run away' anyhow one day, if it can be fixed. If not, I know what's causing it now. Just took some time to figure it out. Thanks for your assistance

[Peter Verbeek]

Btw. I'm the developer of the Peace equalizer interface and this is the forum of Equalizer APO. As the developer isn't that active I don't think there will be any changes soon. But I tend to agree with you although I'm not sure if the "running away" can be avoided altogether. On the other hand, it would be nice if Equalizer APO had a limiter and/or compressor.

[T R]

I did recognise your name some time ago when you were one of the couple people who tried to help me initially. Great little interface you created. Easier on the eyes and much more user friendly. I haven't used some of the more advanced features however.

Yeah sadly, I'm not counting on it. It's not a dealbreaker though thats for sure. Started using this software many years ago and definitely intend to use it for quite a while longer

Limiter/compressor as in dynamic gain adjustments? Would definitely be handy and may even prevent the random spike(s) that cause the issue here. My audio knowledge is more the electrical side (car audio, PA, AV). Trying not to get confusing but in electrical talk as I'm not sure how the software sees/processes the audio signal - I guess a stable 1Vp-p audio stream that suddenly got a 1.2V pop or something could be limited on the fly.

In order for it to work though it might need a miniscule delay though in order to be able to recalculate the now clipped cycle(s) back into sine-wave cycle(s) without disruption. This could be a feature on it's own

[Peter Verbeek]

I haven't used some of the more advanced features however.

Peace has a lot of features which the Configuration Editor doesn't have. I've tried to keep it simple though.

In order for it to work though it might need a miniscule delay though in order to be able to recalculate the now clipped cycle(s) back into sine-wave cycle(s) without disruption.

Yep, dynamic gain adjustments which causes delays called latency. The more such anticlipping feature needs to see in the "future" the more latency it produces. But for years now people are asking for this: limiting the output gain and keeping it at a certain gain level (volume) despite the input. Of course this isn't easy to accomplish but for instance music streaming services somehow do.

There are of course VST plugins which have these features. If they are compatible with Equalizer APO then one can benefit from them.

[T R]

As it turns out, my Steelseries Arctis Pro headset had one of the hinges break yesterday (only a few months old) so I took it back and paid a bit extra (nearly $300 extra here in Australia) and upgraded to a Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless yesterday afternoon which has a built in EQ in the dock. I had a play with it. (this was actually coincidental and a common issue)

With the EQ built into the dock any frequency being turned up more than a couple clicks, it clips like no tomorrow. So I set it to balanced again.

Although it was clear and clean with the other headset, I tried my preset on this one. Although loud, it was definitely distorted/clipping on this new set but turning the pre-amplificaiton/gain down to 0 slowly made no difference to how loud it was but corrected the distortion/clipping. I did not hear this with the wired version of the headset at all. Like the G936 maybe the actual pre-amplification built into the headset itself has less gain verses this set.

Peak value meter still mostly solid red though but I don't think the problem will happen again without the extra gain. Still sounds clear but we'll see how this goes. I know what's causing the issue now should it come about again. Cheers Peter

[Peter Verbeek]

Good to hear you have a workable setup now.

[T R]

Some of the older music I listen to does need a decent gain increase though as they are quiet (16-18dB) but I do need to remember to turn it down after those tracks else it does audibly distort now on this new headset (did not have this with other headset but still).

If anyone else is in the same predicament in future you can forward them here

Happy new year!

[T R]

/resolved

close please I'm not sure if I can do this myself

[Peter Verbeek]

Sorry, I can't close it and the developer isn't very active.

[T R]

Update:

Have been using the new headset for a week set at 0db pre-amp with the same EQ I linked earlier.
I find myself turning the volume down for alot of music now, I barely tried any music when I commented on new years eve. The G935 and the Arctis Pro (wired) I had this issue with before were definitely quieter than the Arctis Pro Wireless I upgraded to. Both prior headsets needed a good pre-amplification to get loud. Older music still needs a little pre-amp though to be the same level.

I still think this is a problem people will face but it depends on what audio hardware people are using.