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From: frantisek k. <fra...@gm...> - 2008-12-03 17:53:42
|
The cause is: java.io.IOException: No properties file: users.properties or defaults: defaultUsers.properties found Fero On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:52 PM, frantisek kocun <fra...@gm...>wrote: > So I missed tin instrucitions how to create schema. I created it with > jmx-console. But I can't still login the way you wrote. There is > > Use an arbitrary userid and repeat it as the password. Open the development > tool on the right hand side and click on *Create Admin Profile* in order > to create a profile with all permissions and have it assigned to the current > user. Log out and in again. Then you'll see the navigation menu. > > If I don't fill mandator I get "User and Mandator are required!", if I fill > it I get "Login failed!". > > Fero > > > On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:45 PM, frantisek kocun <fra...@gm... > > wrote: > >> Hi Holger, >> I got it working:) I used instructions from the link you sent me. I >> created db schema by generation from all hbm.xml files in directory >> osbl-shell/build/jca/model.sar and concern/src/meta/hbm/Controller.hbm.xml >> file. Don't know if this was the right way. But I can't login. I get an >> error "Login failed!" but I filled user, mandator and password. Should I >> first insert the user in db? If yes don't you have a script for data, or ddl >> script as well? I use postrgeSQL, I think you as well (when looking in >> hibernate configurations). >> >> Thanks >> >> Fero >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:12 PM, frantisek kocun < >> fra...@gm...> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the link, can't wait to try it out. >>> >>> Fero >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...>wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> how to build the osbl is documented here: >>>> >>>> http://osbl.wilken.de/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guide >>>> >>>> Yes, con:cern has a notion of tasks. Of yourse you can freely edit the >>>> object and notify con:cern of the change an con:cern will pick up th >>>> enew state and continue with the process. But this is merely the >>>> unusual case. Normally you define a bunch of activities with >>>> preconditions and postconditions. As soon as the precondition of an >>>> activity is met, con:cern will either execute it (synchronous system >>>> acitvity) or enlist it for asynchronous execution. Asynchronous >>>> activities are mostly user activities. An actor assignes the activity >>>> to one or more users. If the activitiy is obligatory (it must be >>>> executed and it will timeout / escalated, if it's not), con:cern will >>>> create a task for them. If the activity is marked optional, con:cern >>>> creates an option, that can be executed (by their option). >>>> >>>> If you manage to deploy the vacation process demo and study it >>>> parallely in the process monitor and in the con:cept editor, you will >>>> get the picture. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Holger >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM, frantisek kocun >>>> <fra...@gm...> wrote: >>>> > Hi, >>>> > I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I >>>> managed >>>> > to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform, >>>> concern. >>>> > concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo. To build >>>> > osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How >>>> does this >>>> > file look like? >>>> > >>>> > Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what >>>> as >>>> > editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process. >>>> That's >>>> > why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this. >>>> So how >>>> > you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in >>>> jbpm? Or >>>> > do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process, >>>> > business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks >>>> which >>>> > can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and >>>> business >>>> > objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is >>>> the >>>> > most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. >>>> We >>>> > don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has >>>> a lot >>>> > of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business >>>> logic in >>>> > it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another >>>> objects. I >>>> > think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that >>>> way). >>>> > Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or >>>> in >>>> > several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as >>>> a big >>>> > picture. >>>> > >>>> > Thanks >>>> > >>>> > Fero >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> Hi, >>>> >> >>>> >> the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour >>>> of >>>> >> isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with >>>> >> special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence >>>> >> running instances, testability and the simple means to query the >>>> state >>>> >> of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen >>>> >> make working with con:cern very conventien. >>>> >> >>>> >> On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as >>>> >> you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split >>>> >> and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has >>>> >> children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children >>>> >> and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's >>>> >> processes. >>>> >> >>>> >> However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several >>>> >> processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight. >>>> >> Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward. >>>> >> >>>> >> Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk >>>> from >>>> >> subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl >>>> 1.2 >>>> >> by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk. >>>> >> >>>> >> There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be >>>> >> able to understand it by studying the examples. >>>> >> >>>> >> Kind regards, >>>> >> >>>> >> Holger Engels >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun >>>> >> <fra...@gm...> wrote: >>>> >> > Hi, >>>> >> > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no >>>> >> > experiences >>>> >> > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. >>>> But I >>>> >> > have >>>> >> > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns >>>> from >>>> >> > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy >>>> things >>>> >> > needs >>>> >> > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the >>>> >> > imperative >>>> >> > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for >>>> Business >>>> >> > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is >>>> what >>>> >> > we >>>> >> > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain >>>> evidence >>>> >> > I >>>> >> > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some >>>> which >>>> >> > are >>>> >> > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, >>>> and >>>> >> > some >>>> >> > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in >>>> concern. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship >>>> >> > between >>>> >> > tasks. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in >>>> other >>>> >> > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with >>>> user >>>> >> > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as >>>> process >>>> >> > name, >>>> >> > time created... I made it working in jBPM with user defined >>>> process >>>> >> > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several >>>> >> > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job). >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > My questions: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in >>>> something >>>> >> > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html . >>>> >> > Process >>>> >> > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, >>>> because we >>>> >> > have >>>> >> > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with >>>> >> > process >>>> >> > definitions, con:cern api and execution model. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub >>>> and >>>> >> > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using >>>> different >>>> >> > version of emf models. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found >>>> some >>>> >> > older >>>> >> > pages, but that time you were only beginning. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model >>>> elements >>>> >> > in >>>> >> > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)? >>>> >> > >>>> >> > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case >>>> >> > handling? >>>> >> > The best with case handling and workflow examples. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Thanks for help >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Fero >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>>> >> > challenge >>>> >> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>> great >>>> >> > prizes >>>> >> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>>> the >>>> >> > world >>>> >> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> > concern-users mailing list >>>> >> > con...@li... >>>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>>> >> challenge >>>> >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>> great >>>> >> prizes >>>> >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >>>> >> world >>>> >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> concern-users mailing list >>>> >> con...@li... >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>>> challenge >>>> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >>>> > prizes >>>> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >>>> world >>>> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > concern-users mailing list >>>> > con...@li... >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>>> challenge >>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >>>> prizes >>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >>>> world >>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> concern-users mailing list >>>> con...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >>>> >>> >>> >> > |
|
From: frantisek k. <fra...@gm...> - 2008-12-03 17:52:15
|
So I missed tin instrucitions how to create schema. I created it with jmx-console. But I can't still login the way you wrote. There is Use an arbitrary userid and repeat it as the password. Open the development tool on the right hand side and click on *Create Admin Profile* in order to create a profile with all permissions and have it assigned to the current user. Log out and in again. Then you'll see the navigation menu. If I don't fill mandator I get "User and Mandator are required!", if I fill it I get "Login failed!". Fero On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:45 PM, frantisek kocun <fra...@gm...>wrote: > Hi Holger, > I got it working:) I used instructions from the link you sent me. I created > db schema by generation from all hbm.xml files in directory > osbl-shell/build/jca/model.sar and concern/src/meta/hbm/Controller.hbm.xml > file. Don't know if this was the right way. But I can't login. I get an > error "Login failed!" but I filled user, mandator and password. Should I > first insert the user in db? If yes don't you have a script for data, or ddl > script as well? I use postrgeSQL, I think you as well (when looking in > hibernate configurations). > > Thanks > > Fero > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:12 PM, frantisek kocun < > fra...@gm...> wrote: > >> Thanks for the link, can't wait to try it out. >> >> Fero >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> how to build the osbl is documented here: >>> >>> http://osbl.wilken.de/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guide >>> >>> Yes, con:cern has a notion of tasks. Of yourse you can freely edit the >>> object and notify con:cern of the change an con:cern will pick up th >>> enew state and continue with the process. But this is merely the >>> unusual case. Normally you define a bunch of activities with >>> preconditions and postconditions. As soon as the precondition of an >>> activity is met, con:cern will either execute it (synchronous system >>> acitvity) or enlist it for asynchronous execution. Asynchronous >>> activities are mostly user activities. An actor assignes the activity >>> to one or more users. If the activitiy is obligatory (it must be >>> executed and it will timeout / escalated, if it's not), con:cern will >>> create a task for them. If the activity is marked optional, con:cern >>> creates an option, that can be executed (by their option). >>> >>> If you manage to deploy the vacation process demo and study it >>> parallely in the process monitor and in the con:cept editor, you will >>> get the picture. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Holger >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM, frantisek kocun >>> <fra...@gm...> wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I >>> managed >>> > to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform, >>> concern. >>> > concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo. To build >>> > osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How does >>> this >>> > file look like? >>> > >>> > Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what as >>> > editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process. >>> That's >>> > why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this. >>> So how >>> > you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in >>> jbpm? Or >>> > do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process, >>> > business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks >>> which >>> > can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and >>> business >>> > objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is >>> the >>> > most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. We >>> > don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has >>> a lot >>> > of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business logic >>> in >>> > it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another >>> objects. I >>> > think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that >>> way). >>> > Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or >>> in >>> > several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as >>> a big >>> > picture. >>> > >>> > Thanks >>> > >>> > Fero >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> Hi, >>> >> >>> >> the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of >>> >> isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with >>> >> special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence >>> >> running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state >>> >> of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen >>> >> make working with con:cern very conventien. >>> >> >>> >> On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as >>> >> you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split >>> >> and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has >>> >> children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children >>> >> and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's >>> >> processes. >>> >> >>> >> However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several >>> >> processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight. >>> >> Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward. >>> >> >>> >> Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from >>> >> subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2 >>> >> by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk. >>> >> >>> >> There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be >>> >> able to understand it by studying the examples. >>> >> >>> >> Kind regards, >>> >> >>> >> Holger Engels >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun >>> >> <fra...@gm...> wrote: >>> >> > Hi, >>> >> > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no >>> >> > experiences >>> >> > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But >>> I >>> >> > have >>> >> > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns >>> from >>> >> > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy >>> things >>> >> > needs >>> >> > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the >>> >> > imperative >>> >> > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for >>> Business >>> >> > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is >>> what >>> >> > we >>> >> > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain >>> evidence >>> >> > I >>> >> > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some >>> which >>> >> > are >>> >> > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, >>> and >>> >> > some >>> >> > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in >>> concern. >>> >> > >>> >> > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well: >>> >> > >>> >> > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship >>> >> > between >>> >> > tasks. >>> >> > >>> >> > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in >>> other >>> >> > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with >>> user >>> >> > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as >>> process >>> >> > name, >>> >> > time created... I made it working in jBPM with user defined process >>> >> > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several >>> >> > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job). >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > My questions: >>> >> > >>> >> > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in >>> something >>> >> > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html . >>> >> > Process >>> >> > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because >>> we >>> >> > have >>> >> > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with >>> >> > process >>> >> > definitions, con:cern api and execution model. >>> >> > >>> >> > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub >>> and >>> >> > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using >>> different >>> >> > version of emf models. >>> >> > >>> >> > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found >>> some >>> >> > older >>> >> > pages, but that time you were only beginning. >>> >> > >>> >> > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model >>> elements >>> >> > in >>> >> > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)? >>> >> > >>> >> > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case >>> >> > handling? >>> >> > The best with case handling and workflow examples. >>> >> > >>> >> > Thanks for help >>> >> > >>> >> > Fero >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>> >> > challenge >>> >> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>> great >>> >> > prizes >>> >> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>> the >>> >> > world >>> >> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > concern-users mailing list >>> >> > con...@li... >>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>> >> challenge >>> >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >>> >> prizes >>> >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >>> >> world >>> >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> concern-users mailing list >>> >> con...@li... >>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>> challenge >>> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >>> > prizes >>> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >>> world >>> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > concern-users mailing list >>> > con...@li... >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >>> > >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>> challenge >>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >>> prizes >>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >>> world >>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> concern-users mailing list >>> con...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >>> >> >> > |
|
From: frantisek k. <fra...@gm...> - 2008-12-03 17:45:57
|
Hi Holger, I got it working:) I used instructions from the link you sent me. I created db schema by generation from all hbm.xml files in directory osbl-shell/build/jca/model.sar and concern/src/meta/hbm/Controller.hbm.xml file. Don't know if this was the right way. But I can't login. I get an error "Login failed!" but I filled user, mandator and password. Should I first insert the user in db? If yes don't you have a script for data, or ddl script as well? I use postrgeSQL, I think you as well (when looking in hibernate configurations). Thanks Fero On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:12 PM, frantisek kocun <fra...@gm...>wrote: > Thanks for the link, can't wait to try it out. > > Fero > > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> how to build the osbl is documented here: >> >> http://osbl.wilken.de/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guide >> >> Yes, con:cern has a notion of tasks. Of yourse you can freely edit the >> object and notify con:cern of the change an con:cern will pick up th >> enew state and continue with the process. But this is merely the >> unusual case. Normally you define a bunch of activities with >> preconditions and postconditions. As soon as the precondition of an >> activity is met, con:cern will either execute it (synchronous system >> acitvity) or enlist it for asynchronous execution. Asynchronous >> activities are mostly user activities. An actor assignes the activity >> to one or more users. If the activitiy is obligatory (it must be >> executed and it will timeout / escalated, if it's not), con:cern will >> create a task for them. If the activity is marked optional, con:cern >> creates an option, that can be executed (by their option). >> >> If you manage to deploy the vacation process demo and study it >> parallely in the process monitor and in the con:cept editor, you will >> get the picture. >> >> Regards, >> >> Holger >> >> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM, frantisek kocun >> <fra...@gm...> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I >> managed >> > to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform, >> concern. >> > concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo. To build >> > osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How does >> this >> > file look like? >> > >> > Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what as >> > editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process. >> That's >> > why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this. So >> how >> > you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in jbpm? >> Or >> > do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process, >> > business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks >> which >> > can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and >> business >> > objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is the >> > most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. We >> > don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has a >> lot >> > of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business logic >> in >> > it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another >> objects. I >> > think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that >> way). >> > Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or in >> > several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as a >> big >> > picture. >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Fero >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of >> >> isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with >> >> special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence >> >> running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state >> >> of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen >> >> make working with con:cern very conventien. >> >> >> >> On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as >> >> you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split >> >> and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has >> >> children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children >> >> and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's >> >> processes. >> >> >> >> However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several >> >> processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight. >> >> Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward. >> >> >> >> Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from >> >> subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2 >> >> by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk. >> >> >> >> There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be >> >> able to understand it by studying the examples. >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> >> Holger Engels >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun >> >> <fra...@gm...> wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> >> > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no >> >> > experiences >> >> > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But >> I >> >> > have >> >> > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns >> from >> >> > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy things >> >> > needs >> >> > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the >> >> > imperative >> >> > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for >> Business >> >> > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is >> what >> >> > we >> >> > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain >> evidence >> >> > I >> >> > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some >> which >> >> > are >> >> > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, >> and >> >> > some >> >> > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in >> concern. >> >> > >> >> > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well: >> >> > >> >> > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship >> >> > between >> >> > tasks. >> >> > >> >> > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in other >> >> > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with >> user >> >> > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as >> process >> >> > name, >> >> > time created... I made it working in jBPM with user defined process >> >> > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several >> >> > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job). >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > My questions: >> >> > >> >> > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in >> something >> >> > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html . >> >> > Process >> >> > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because >> we >> >> > have >> >> > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with >> >> > process >> >> > definitions, con:cern api and execution model. >> >> > >> >> > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub >> and >> >> > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using >> different >> >> > version of emf models. >> >> > >> >> > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found some >> >> > older >> >> > pages, but that time you were only beginning. >> >> > >> >> > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model >> elements >> >> > in >> >> > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)? >> >> > >> >> > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case >> >> > handling? >> >> > The best with case handling and workflow examples. >> >> > >> >> > Thanks for help >> >> > >> >> > Fero >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> >> > challenge >> >> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >> great >> >> > prizes >> >> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >> >> > world >> >> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > concern-users mailing list >> >> > con...@li... >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> >> challenge >> >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >> >> prizes >> >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >> >> world >> >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> concern-users mailing list >> >> con...@li... >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> challenge >> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >> > prizes >> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >> world >> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > concern-users mailing list >> > con...@li... >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> challenge >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >> prizes >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >> world >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> _______________________________________________ >> concern-users mailing list >> con...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >> > > |
|
From: frantisek k. <fra...@gm...> - 2008-12-02 21:12:34
|
Thanks for the link, can't wait to try it out. Fero On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> wrote: > Hi, > > how to build the osbl is documented here: > > http://osbl.wilken.de/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guide > > Yes, con:cern has a notion of tasks. Of yourse you can freely edit the > object and notify con:cern of the change an con:cern will pick up th > enew state and continue with the process. But this is merely the > unusual case. Normally you define a bunch of activities with > preconditions and postconditions. As soon as the precondition of an > activity is met, con:cern will either execute it (synchronous system > acitvity) or enlist it for asynchronous execution. Asynchronous > activities are mostly user activities. An actor assignes the activity > to one or more users. If the activitiy is obligatory (it must be > executed and it will timeout / escalated, if it's not), con:cern will > create a task for them. If the activity is marked optional, con:cern > creates an option, that can be executed (by their option). > > If you manage to deploy the vacation process demo and study it > parallely in the process monitor and in the con:cept editor, you will > get the picture. > > Regards, > > Holger > > On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM, frantisek kocun > <fra...@gm...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I > managed > > to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform, concern. > > concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo. To build > > osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How does > this > > file look like? > > > > Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what as > > editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process. > That's > > why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this. So > how > > you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in jbpm? > Or > > do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process, > > business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks > which > > can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and business > > objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is the > > most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. We > > don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has a > lot > > of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business logic > in > > it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another objects. > I > > think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that way). > > Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or in > > several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as a > big > > picture. > > > > Thanks > > > > Fero > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> > wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of > >> isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with > >> special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence > >> running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state > >> of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen > >> make working with con:cern very conventien. > >> > >> On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as > >> you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split > >> and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has > >> children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children > >> and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's > >> processes. > >> > >> However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several > >> processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight. > >> Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward. > >> > >> Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from > >> subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2 > >> by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk. > >> > >> There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be > >> able to understand it by studying the examples. > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> > >> Holger Engels > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun > >> <fra...@gm...> wrote: > >> > Hi, > >> > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no > >> > experiences > >> > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But I > >> > have > >> > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns > from > >> > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy things > >> > needs > >> > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the > >> > imperative > >> > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for > Business > >> > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is > what > >> > we > >> > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain > evidence > >> > I > >> > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some > which > >> > are > >> > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, and > >> > some > >> > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in > concern. > >> > > >> > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well: > >> > > >> > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship > >> > between > >> > tasks. > >> > > >> > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in other > >> > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with > user > >> > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as process > >> > name, > >> > time created... I made it working in jBPM with user defined process > >> > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several > >> > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job). > >> > > >> > > >> > My questions: > >> > > >> > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in > something > >> > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html . > >> > Process > >> > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because > we > >> > have > >> > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with > >> > process > >> > definitions, con:cern api and execution model. > >> > > >> > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub and > >> > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using different > >> > version of emf models. > >> > > >> > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found some > >> > older > >> > pages, but that time you were only beginning. > >> > > >> > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model > elements > >> > in > >> > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)? > >> > > >> > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case > >> > handling? > >> > The best with case handling and workflow examples. > >> > > >> > Thanks for help > >> > > >> > Fero > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > >> > challenge > >> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > >> > prizes > >> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the > >> > world > >> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > concern-users mailing list > >> > con...@li... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > >> challenge > >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > >> prizes > >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the > >> world > >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> concern-users mailing list > >> con...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > > prizes > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the > world > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > > _______________________________________________ > > concern-users mailing list > > con...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > concern-users mailing list > con...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > |
|
From: Holger E. <he...@gm...> - 2008-12-02 21:07:11
|
Hi, how to build the osbl is documented here: http://osbl.wilken.de/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guide Yes, con:cern has a notion of tasks. Of yourse you can freely edit the object and notify con:cern of the change an con:cern will pick up th enew state and continue with the process. But this is merely the unusual case. Normally you define a bunch of activities with preconditions and postconditions. As soon as the precondition of an activity is met, con:cern will either execute it (synchronous system acitvity) or enlist it for asynchronous execution. Asynchronous activities are mostly user activities. An actor assignes the activity to one or more users. If the activitiy is obligatory (it must be executed and it will timeout / escalated, if it's not), con:cern will create a task for them. If the activity is marked optional, con:cern creates an option, that can be executed (by their option). If you manage to deploy the vacation process demo and study it parallely in the process monitor and in the con:cept editor, you will get the picture. Regards, Holger On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM, frantisek kocun <fra...@gm...> wrote: > Hi, > I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I managed > to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform, concern. > concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo. To build > osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How does this > file look like? > > Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what as > editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process. That's > why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this. So how > you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in jbpm? Or > do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process, > business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks which > can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and business > objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is the > most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. We > don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has a lot > of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business logic in > it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another objects. I > think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that way). > Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or in > several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as a big > picture. > > Thanks > > Fero > > > > > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of >> isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with >> special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence >> running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state >> of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen >> make working with con:cern very conventien. >> >> On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as >> you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split >> and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has >> children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children >> and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's >> processes. >> >> However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several >> processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight. >> Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward. >> >> Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from >> subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2 >> by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk. >> >> There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be >> able to understand it by studying the examples. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Holger Engels >> >> >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun >> <fra...@gm...> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no >> > experiences >> > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But I >> > have >> > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns from >> > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy things >> > needs >> > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the >> > imperative >> > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for Business >> > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is what >> > we >> > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain evidence >> > I >> > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some which >> > are >> > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, and >> > some >> > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in concern. >> > >> > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well: >> > >> > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship >> > between >> > tasks. >> > >> > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in other >> > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with user >> > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as process >> > name, >> > time created... I made it working in jBPM with user defined process >> > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several >> > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job). >> > >> > >> > My questions: >> > >> > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in something >> > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html . >> > Process >> > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because we >> > have >> > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with >> > process >> > definitions, con:cern api and execution model. >> > >> > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub and >> > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using different >> > version of emf models. >> > >> > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found some >> > older >> > pages, but that time you were only beginning. >> > >> > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model elements >> > in >> > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)? >> > >> > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case >> > handling? >> > The best with case handling and workflow examples. >> > >> > Thanks for help >> > >> > Fero >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> > challenge >> > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >> > prizes >> > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >> > world >> > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > concern-users mailing list >> > con...@li... >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> challenge >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great >> prizes >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the >> world >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> _______________________________________________ >> concern-users mailing list >> con...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > concern-users mailing list > con...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > > |
|
From: frantisek k. <fra...@gm...> - 2008-12-02 20:07:07
|
Hi, I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I managed to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform, concern. concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo. To build osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How does this file look like? Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what as editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process. That's why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this. So how you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in jbpm? Or do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process, business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks which can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and business objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is the most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. We don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has a lot of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business logic in it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another objects. I think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that way). Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or in several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as a big picture. Thanks Fero On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> wrote: > Hi, > > the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of > isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with > special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence > running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state > of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen > make working with con:cern very conventien. > > On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as > you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split > and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has > children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children > and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's > processes. > > However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several > processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight. > Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward. > > Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from > subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2 > by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk. > > There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be > able to understand it by studying the examples. > > Kind regards, > > Holger Engels > > > On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun > <fra...@gm...> wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no > experiences > > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But I > have > > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns from > > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy things > needs > > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the > imperative > > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for Business > > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is what > we > > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain evidence I > > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some which > are > > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, and > some > > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in concern. > > > > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well: > > > > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship > between > > tasks. > > > > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in other > > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with user > > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as process > name, > > time created... I made it working in jBPM with user defined process > > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several > > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job). > > > > > > My questions: > > > > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in something > > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html . > Process > > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because we > have > > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with process > > definitions, con:cern api and execution model. > > > > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub and > > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using different > > version of emf models. > > > > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found some > older > > pages, but that time you were only beginning. > > > > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model elements > in > > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)? > > > > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case > handling? > > The best with case handling and workflow examples. > > > > Thanks for help > > > > Fero > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > > prizes > > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the > world > > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > > _______________________________________________ > > concern-users mailing list > > con...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > concern-users mailing list > con...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > |
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From: Holger E. <he...@gm...> - 2008-11-30 20:49:18
|
Hi, the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen make working with con:cern very conventien. On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's processes. However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight. Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward. Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2 by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk. There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be able to understand it by studying the examples. Kind regards, Holger Engels On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun <fra...@gm...> wrote: > Hi, > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no experiences > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But I have > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns from > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy things needs > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the imperative > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for Business > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is what we > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain evidence I > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some which are > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, and some > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in concern. > > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well: > > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship between > tasks. > > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in other > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with user > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as process name, > time created... I made it working in jBPM with user defined process > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job). > > > My questions: > > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in something > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html . Process > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because we have > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with process > definitions, con:cern api and execution model. > > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub and > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using different > version of emf models. > > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found some older > pages, but that time you were only beginning. > > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model elements in > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)? > > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case handling? > The best with case handling and workflow examples. > > Thanks for help > > Fero > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great > prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > concern-users mailing list > con...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users > > |
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From: frantisek k. <fra...@gm...> - 2008-11-29 12:22:28
|
Hi, I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no experiences with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But I have some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns from workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy things needs so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the imperative way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for Business Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is what we need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain evidence I must try a case handling system and model various situations, some which are easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, and some which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in concern. This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well: Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship between tasks. I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in other workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with user defined process variables (not only default variables, such as process name, time created... I made it working in jBPM with user defined process variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several queries/subqueries are needed to do that job). My questions: 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in something easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html . Process definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because we have our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with process definitions, con:cern api and execution model. 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub and riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using different version of emf models. 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found some older pages, but that time you were only beginning. 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model elements in con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)? 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case handling? The best with case handling and workflow examples. Thanks for help Fero |
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From: frantisek k. <fra...@gm...> - 2008-11-29 12:11:46
|
Forget to ask this. 6.) What about multiple task instances? My scenario: Subject A has a collection of associated object A 1 ---> * B. There is a task for every object B when it is specified state Condition1. You can move the case as whole when all the associated objects B are in a state than !Condion1. After this point no tasks will be available to object B, no matter if Condition1 is true or false. Thanks Fero |
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:52:45
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-75?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-75.
-------------------------------
Assignee: was deleted
Resolution: was deleted
> XML Export Import
> -----------------
>
> Key: OSBL-75
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-75
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Components: osbl
> Affects Versions: 2.0
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Jens Gohrke
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:50:39
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-74?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-74.
-------------------------------
Resolution: was deleted
> Cross Mandator TaskLists
> ------------------------
>
> Key: OSBL-74
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-74
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Components: osbl-basics
> Affects Versions: 2.0
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Leon Chiver
> Priority: Minor
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:48:44
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-73?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-73.
-------------------------------
Resolution: was deleted
> DMS Integration
> ---------------
>
> Key: OSBL-73
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-73
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Affects Versions: 2.0
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Leon Chiver
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:46:58
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-70?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-70.
-------------------------------
Resolution: was deleted
> Multiple Mandator support
> -------------------------
>
> Key: OSBL-70
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-70
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Components: osbl
> Affects Versions: 2.0
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Holger Engels
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:46:55
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-71?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-71.
-------------------------------
Resolution: was deleted
> Rule based Permissions
> ----------------------
>
> Key: OSBL-71
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-71
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Components: osbl
> Affects Versions: 2.0
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Holger Engels
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:46:53
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-72?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-72.
-------------------------------
Resolution: was deleted
> Draggable Navigation Elements
> -----------------------------
>
> Key: OSBL-72
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-72
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Affects Versions: 2.0
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Florian Roks
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:36:21
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-24?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-24.
-------------------------------
Resolution: was deleted
> Generic hierarchical Masterdata Editor - Tree Refresh
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: OSBL-24
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-24
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: osbl
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Holger Engels
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:36:19
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-27?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-27.
-------------------------------
Resolution: was deleted
> Number Range Generator
> ----------------------
>
> Key: OSBL-27
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-27
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Components: osbl-basics
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Holger Engels
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. (JIRA) <he...@wi...> - 2008-11-20 13:36:09
|
[ http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-30?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Holger Engels resolved OSBL-30.
-------------------------------
Resolution: was deleted
> Logical References
> ------------------
>
> Key: OSBL-30
> URL: http://osbl.wilken.de/jira/browse/OSBL-30
> Project: OSBL
> Issue Type: New Feature
> Components: osbl
> Reporter: Holger Engels
> Assignee: Holger Engels
> Fix For: 2.0
>
>
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From: Holger E. <he...@me...> - 2008-04-14 11:51:49
|
Hi, the realization of mandator support is finished. trunk is stable again. The unique key of a business object is now composed of the actual key and the mandator id. Keys are unique per mandator only. Regards, Holger |
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From: Holger E. <he...@me...> - 2008-04-14 11:47:04
|
Hallo, wir stellen die OSBL und speziell die Open Source Initiative Fachverfahren auf der KomCom Süd in Karlsruhe am 6. und 7. Mai aus. Besuchen Sie uns auf dem Gemeinschaftsstand der Linux Kommunale Partner! Wir freuen uns auf Ihren Besuch! Holger Engels -- We're going to present the OSBL on the KomCom Süd in Karlsruhe, 6th and 7th of may together with Linux Kommunale. Kind Regards, Holger Engels |
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From: Holger E. <he...@me...> - 2008-04-04 11:53:00
|
Hi Roman! Sorry, MySQL is not supported right now. Though it will be next week, as I'm installing a customer, who uses MySQL. I'm using postgres. Regards, Holger On Fri, 2008-04-04 at 13:43 +0200, Roman Rädle wrote: > Hi, > > By default the Hypersonic SQL database will be used for osbl-demo but > now I've tried to change the data source to an mysql one. I had no > success with the approach changing everything to mysql within the > custom-build.properties. > > database.vendor=mysql > datasource.name=MySQLDS > datasource.url=jdbc:mysql://localhost:3306/test > datasource.username=root > datasource.password= > hibernate.dialect=org.hibernate.dialect.MySQLInnoDBDialect > > Any ideas how to use a mysql database instead of hypersonic? > > Regards, > -- Roman > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. > It's the best place to buy or sell services for > just about anything Open Source. > http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace > _______________________________________________ > concern-users mailing list > con...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users |
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From: Roman R. <Rom...@un...> - 2008-04-04 11:43:53
|
Hi, By default the Hypersonic SQL database will be used for osbl-demo but now I've tried to change the data source to an mysql one. I had no success with the approach changing everything to mysql within the custom-build.properties. database.vendor=mysql datasource.name=MySQLDS datasource.url=jdbc:mysql://localhost:3306/test datasource.username=root datasource.password= hibernate.dialect=org.hibernate.dialect.MySQLInnoDBDialect Any ideas how to use a mysql database instead of hypersonic? Regards, -- Roman |
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From: Holger E. <he...@wi...> - 2008-03-26 10:44:40
|
Hi, the osbl gets support for multiple mandators. As long as these changes are in progress, trunk is rather unstable. I'll let you know when the changes are done. Regards, Holger -- ____________________________________________________________________ Wilken GmbH Software. Menschen. Service. Tel.: +49-731 9650-218 Hörvelsinger Weg 25-29 Web : http://www.wilken.de D-89081 Ulm ____________________________________________________________________ Wilken GmbH, HRB Ulm 794, GF: Dr. Andreas Lied |
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From: Holger E. <he...@me...> - 2008-03-20 07:52:19
|
Hi,
The links should be quite close to the botton in the section
'osbl.<app.name>', where <app.name> ist tha app.name, you have
configured in your custom-build.properties. If they are really not
there, then your deployment faild for some reason. Please check whether
the directory server/<default>/deploy/<app.name> has been created. If
so, please send me your startup log.
BTW: there is a simpler way to configure jboss to use different ports.
Uncomment this section in 'server/<default>/conf/jboss-service.xml':
<mbean code="org.jboss.services.binding.ServiceBindingManager"
name="jboss.system:service=ServiceBindingManager">
<attribute name="ServerName">ports-01</attribute>
<attribute
name="StoreURL">${jboss.home.url}/docs/examples/binding-manager/sample-bindings.xml</attribute>
<attribute name="StoreFactoryClassName">
org.jboss.services.binding.XMLServicesStoreFactory
</attribute>
</mbean>
.. and then alter the attribute 'ServerName' to ports-01, ports-02, ...
ports-01 is adding 100 to every port, ports-02 is adding 200 and so on.
Regards,
Holger Engels
On Wed, 2008-03-19 at 12:12 -0600, Juan Felix Hernandez wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Wondering if you can help me to finish OSBL installation.
>
>
>
> I got to the point Creating the Database Schema, but I don’t have the
> links in jmx-console.
>
>
>
> Service=controllermodel, type=hibernate
>
> Service=mode,type=hibernate
>
>
>
> I’m using http://localhost:8888/jmx-console to acces it.
>
>
>
> JBoss version: jboss-4.2.2.GA
>
> JDK version: 1.6
>
> Ant 1.6
>
> OS: Linux RHEL 5 Sever
>
>
>
> I had to use different ports:
>
> 8080 to 8888
>
> 8009 to 8099
>
> 8443 to 8493
>
> 8083 to 8899
>
> 1099 to 9999
>
> 1098 to 9998
>
> 4444 to 9444
>
> 4445 to 9445
>
> 4446 to 9446
>
> 8093 to 8993
>
> 3873 to 3874
>
>
>
>
>
> Juan Felix
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
> Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________ concern-users mailing list con...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/concern-users
|
|
From: Juan F. H. <ju...@iq...> - 2008-03-20 01:47:22
|
Hi, Wondering if you can help me to finish OSBL installation. I got to the point Creating the Database Schema, but I don't have the links in jmx-console. Service=controllermodel, type=hibernate Service=mode,type=hibernate I'm using http://localhost:8888/jmx-console to acces it. JBoss version: jboss-4.2.2.GA JDK version: 1.6 Ant 1.6 OS: Linux RHEL 5 Sever I had to use different ports: 8080 to 8888 8009 to 8099 8443 to 8493 8083 to 8899 1099 to 9999 1098 to 9998 4444 to 9444 4445 to 9445 4446 to 9446 8093 to 8993 3873 to 3874 Juan Felix |
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