Re: [concern-users] evaluating con:cern

[frantisek k. <fra...@gm...>]

Hi Holger,
I got it working:) I used instructions from the link you sent me. I created
db schema by generation from all hbm.xml files in directory
osbl-shell/build/jca/model.sar and concern/src/meta/hbm/Controller.hbm.xml
file. Don't know if this was the right way. But I can't login. I get an
error "Login failed!" but I filled user, mandator and password. Should I
first insert the user in db? If yes don't you have a script for data, or ddl
script as well? I use postrgeSQL, I think you as well (when looking in
hibernate configurations).

Thanks

Fero

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:12 PM, frantisek kocun
<fra...@gm...>wrote:

> Thanks for the link, can't wait to try it out.
>
> Fero
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> how to build the osbl is documented here:
>>
>>   http://osbl.wilken.de/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guide
>>
>> Yes, con:cern has a notion of tasks. Of yourse you can freely edit the
>> object and notify con:cern of the change an con:cern will pick up th
>> enew state and continue with the process. But this is merely the
>> unusual case. Normally you define a bunch of activities with
>> preconditions and postconditions. As soon as the precondition of an
>> activity is met, con:cern will either execute it (synchronous system
>> acitvity) or enlist it for asynchronous execution. Asynchronous
>> activities are mostly user activities. An actor assignes the activity
>> to one or more users. If the activitiy is obligatory (it must be
>> executed and it will timeout / escalated, if it's not), con:cern will
>> create a task for them. If the activity is marked optional, con:cern
>> creates an option, that can be executed (by their option).
>>
>> If you manage to deploy the vacation process demo and study it
>> parallely in the process monitor and in the con:cept editor, you will
>> get the picture.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Holger
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM, frantisek kocun
>> <fra...@gm...> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I
>> managed
>> > to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform,
>> concern.
>> > concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo.  To build
>> > osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How does
>> this
>> > file look like?
>> >
>> > Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what as
>> > editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process.
>> That's
>> > why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this. So
>> how
>> > you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in jbpm?
>> Or
>> > do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process,
>> > business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks
>> which
>> > can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and
>> business
>> > objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is the
>> > most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. We
>> > don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has a
>> lot
>> > of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business logic
>> in
>> > it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another
>> objects. I
>> > think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that
>> way).
>> > Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or in
>> > several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as a
>> big
>> > picture.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Fero
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of
>> >> isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with
>> >> special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence
>> >> running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state
>> >> of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen
>> >> make working with con:cern very conventien.
>> >>
>> >> On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as
>> >> you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split
>> >> and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has
>> >> children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children
>> >> and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's
>> >> processes.
>> >>
>> >> However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several
>> >> processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight.
>> >> Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward.
>> >>
>> >> Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from
>> >> subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2
>> >> by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk.
>> >>
>> >> There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be
>> >> able to understand it by studying the examples.
>> >>
>> >> Kind regards,
>> >>
>> >> Holger Engels
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun
>> >> <fra...@gm...> wrote:
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no
>> >> > experiences
>> >> > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But
>> I
>> >> > have
>> >> > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns
>> from
>> >> > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy things
>> >> > needs
>> >> > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the
>> >> > imperative
>> >> > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for
>> Business
>> >> > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is
>> what
>> >> > we
>> >> > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain
>> evidence
>> >> > I
>> >> > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some
>> which
>> >> > are
>> >> > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern,
>> and
>> >> > some
>> >> > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in
>> concern.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well:
>> >> >
>> >> > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship
>> >> > between
>> >> > tasks.
>> >> >
>> >> > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in other
>> >> > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with
>> user
>> >> > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as
>> process
>> >> > name,
>> >> > time created... I made it working in jBPM  with user defined process
>> >> > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several
>> >> > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job).
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > My questions:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in
>> something
>> >> > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html .
>> >> > Process
>> >> > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because
>> we
>> >> > have
>> >> > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with
>> >> > process
>> >> > definitions, con:cern api and execution model.
>> >> >
>> >> > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub
>> and
>> >> > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using
>> different
>> >> > version of emf models.
>> >> >
>> >> > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found some
>> >> > older
>> >> > pages, but that time you were only beginning.
>> >> >
>> >> > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model
>> elements
>> >> > in
>> >> > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)?
>> >> >
>> >> > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case
>> >> > handling?
>> >> > The best with case handling and workflow examples.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for help
>> >> >
>> >> > Fero
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
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