Re: [concern-users] evaluating con:cern

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So I missed tin instrucitions how to create schema. I created it with
jmx-console. But I can't still login the way you wrote. There is

Use an arbitrary userid and repeat it as the password. Open the development
tool on the right hand side and click on *Create Admin Profile* in order to
create a profile with all permissions and have it assigned to the current
user. Log out and in again. Then you'll see the navigation menu.

If I don't fill mandator I get "User and Mandator are required!", if I fill
it I get "Login failed!".

Fero

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 6:45 PM, frantisek kocun
<fra...@gm...>wrote:

> Hi Holger,
> I got it working:) I used instructions from the link you sent me. I created
> db schema by generation from all hbm.xml files in directory
> osbl-shell/build/jca/model.sar and concern/src/meta/hbm/Controller.hbm.xml
> file. Don't know if this was the right way. But I can't login. I get an
> error "Login failed!" but I filled user, mandator and password. Should I
> first insert the user in db? If yes don't you have a script for data, or ddl
> script as well? I use postrgeSQL, I think you as well (when looking in
> hibernate configurations).
>
> Thanks
>
> Fero
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:12 PM, frantisek kocun <
> fra...@gm...> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the link, can't wait to try it out.
>>
>> Fero
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> how to build the osbl is documented here:
>>>
>>>   http://osbl.wilken.de/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guide
>>>
>>> Yes, con:cern has a notion of tasks. Of yourse you can freely edit the
>>> object and notify con:cern of the change an con:cern will pick up th
>>> enew state and continue with the process. But this is merely the
>>> unusual case. Normally you define a bunch of activities with
>>> preconditions and postconditions. As soon as the precondition of an
>>> activity is met, con:cern will either execute it (synchronous system
>>> acitvity) or enlist it for asynchronous execution. Asynchronous
>>> activities are mostly user activities. An actor assignes the activity
>>> to one or more users. If the activitiy is obligatory (it must be
>>> executed and it will timeout / escalated, if it's not), con:cern will
>>> create a task for them. If the activity is marked optional, con:cern
>>> creates an option, that can be executed (by their option).
>>>
>>> If you manage to deploy the vacation process demo and study it
>>> parallely in the process monitor and in the con:cept editor, you will
>>> get the picture.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Holger
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 9:07 PM, frantisek kocun
>>> <fra...@gm...> wrote:
>>> > Hi,
>>> > I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I
>>> managed
>>> > to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform,
>>> concern.
>>> > concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo.  To build
>>> > osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How does
>>> this
>>> > file look like?
>>> >
>>> > Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what as
>>> > editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process.
>>> That's
>>> > why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this.
>>> So how
>>> > you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in
>>> jbpm? Or
>>> > do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process,
>>> > business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks
>>> which
>>> > can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and
>>> business
>>> > objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is
>>> the
>>> > most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. We
>>> > don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has
>>> a lot
>>> > of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business logic
>>> in
>>> > it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another
>>> objects. I
>>> > think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that
>>> way).
>>> > Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or
>>> in
>>> > several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as
>>> a big
>>> > picture.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> >
>>> > Fero
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >>
>>> >> the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of
>>> >> isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with
>>> >> special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence
>>> >> running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state
>>> >> of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen
>>> >> make working with con:cern very conventien.
>>> >>
>>> >> On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as
>>> >> you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split
>>> >> and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has
>>> >> children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children
>>> >> and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's
>>> >> processes.
>>> >>
>>> >> However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several
>>> >> processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight.
>>> >> Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward.
>>> >>
>>> >> Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from
>>> >> subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2
>>> >> by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk.
>>> >>
>>> >> There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be
>>> >> able to understand it by studying the examples.
>>> >>
>>> >> Kind regards,
>>> >>
>>> >> Holger Engels
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun
>>> >> <fra...@gm...> wrote:
>>> >> > Hi,
>>> >> > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no
>>> >> > experiences
>>> >> > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But
>>> I
>>> >> > have
>>> >> > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns
>>> from
>>> >> > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy
>>> things
>>> >> > needs
>>> >> > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the
>>> >> > imperative
>>> >> > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for
>>> Business
>>> >> > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is
>>> what
>>> >> > we
>>> >> > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain
>>> evidence
>>> >> > I
>>> >> > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some
>>> which
>>> >> > are
>>> >> > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern,
>>> and
>>> >> > some
>>> >> > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in
>>> concern.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship
>>> >> > between
>>> >> > tasks.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in
>>> other
>>> >> > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with
>>> user
>>> >> > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as
>>> process
>>> >> > name,
>>> >> > time created... I made it working in jBPM  with user defined process
>>> >> > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several
>>> >> > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job).
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > My questions:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in
>>> something
>>> >> > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html .
>>> >> > Process
>>> >> > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because
>>> we
>>> >> > have
>>> >> > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with
>>> >> > process
>>> >> > definitions, con:cern api and execution model.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub
>>> and
>>> >> > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using
>>> different
>>> >> > version of emf models.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found
>>> some
>>> >> > older
>>> >> > pages, but that time you were only beginning.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model
>>> elements
>>> >> > in
>>> >> > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case
>>> >> > handling?
>>> >> > The best with case handling and workflow examples.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks for help
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Fero
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
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>>> >> >
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>>
>>
>