Re: [concern-users] evaluating con:cern

[frantisek k. <fra...@gm...>]

Hi,
I'm trying to build the trunk. I it's a little bit complicated but I managed
to build all the project which demo project depends on (conform, concern.
concern-library, osbl, osbl-basics) and finally osbl-demo.  To build
osbl-shell I need file osbl-shell\etc\custom-build.properties. How does this
file look like?

Our problem with workflow is what should be modeled as task and what as
editation of business object, which has nothing to do with process. That's
why I'm trying con:cern and osbl. I'm curious how you deal with this. So how
you deal with this? Do you have something corresponding to task in jbpm? Or
do you only edit business objects which in turn notifies the process,
business object is in (I think this is your case and the action/tasks which
can be done are determined by process). Or do you have tasks and business
objects as well? Is there any article on this topic? I think this is the
most important thing for systems dealing with processes and objects. We
don't have a classic document-based system. We have a system which has a lot
of CRUD with a lot of difficult constarints and a lot of business logic in
it. Modifying one object can trigger creation of tens of another objects. I
think we have processes in it as well (but we don't program it that way).
Sometimes you have an object which can be handled only in one way (or in
several ways depending of attributes values) but you can't see this as a big
picture.

Thanks

Fero




On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Holger Engels <he...@gm...> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> the con:cern approach has its strength were you model the behaviour of
> isolated objects in respect to complex rules and influences with
> special cases and the like. The possibility to manually influence
> running instances, testability and the simple means to query the state
> of an instance and to find out, why things happen or do not happen
> make working with con:cern very conventien.
>
> On the other side, it's sometimes hard to model sequential flows as
> you need conditions and state for every step. Also there's not split
> and join operation. If activities must be performed on an object has
> children (1:n), you need to build a separate process for the children
> and to coordinate the the parent's process with the children's
> processes.
>
> However, I'm still convinced of the approach. We've built several
> processes with con:cern now and development was always very straight.
> Finding errors and reasons for errors is also straight forward.
>
> Please do not use osbl 1.0. It's quite old. Please checkout trunk from
> subversion. Trunk is stable at the moment, as we will release osbl 1.2
> by next week. con:cept will load the models from trunk.
>
> There's no documentation beside the osbl wiki. Though you should be
> able to understand it by studying the examples.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Holger Engels
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM, frantisek kocun
> <fra...@gm...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I'm evaluating OSBL and workflow engines in general. I have no
> experiences
> > with workflow systems. I tried two engines and decided for jBPM. But I
> have
> > some doubt about it. And especially after reading all the patterns from
> > workflowpatterns.com, what is really good site. Why such easy things
> needs
> > so much effort to realize (tokens, decisions, events... all the
> imperative
> > way). Last week when reading Case Handling: A New Paradigm for Business
> > Process Support by Wil M.P. van der Aalst I realized, that this is what
> we
> > need. But is just a feeling I don't have any evidence. To gain evidence I
> > must try a case handling system and model various situations, some which
> are
> > easy to model in jBPM and hopefully stay easy to model in concern, and
> some
> > which are hard to model in jBPM and will be easier to model in concern.
> >
> > This is what I found very useful, hopefully I understood it well:
> >
> > Flow can be data driven but you still have the causal realtionship
> between
> > tasks.
> >
> > I like the idea that subject is the same as process instance in other
> > workflow engines, which gave me power to make various queries with user
> > defined process variables (not only default variables, such as process
> name,
> > time created... I made it working in jBPM  with user defined process
> > variables as well but it was a lot of additional coding and several
> > queries/subqueries are needed to do that job).
> >
> >
> > My questions:
> >
> > 1.) Is there any working example of concern. I'm interested in something
> > easy like http://docs.jboss.org/jbpm/v3/userguide/tutorial.html .
> Process
> > definition, code and junit tests. Not too much architecture, because we
> have
> > our own, and I want pluggable solution. Just to get familiar with process
> > definitions, con:cern api and execution model.
> >
> > 2.) I downloaded osbl 1.0 and con:cept 1.1 and I can't open urlaub and
> > riskmanagement examples in designer. Probably they are using different
> > version of emf models.
> >
> > 3.) What are your experiences with con:cern so far? I have found some
> older
> > pages, but that time you were only beginning.
> >
> > 4.) Is there any comprehensive documentation for all the model elements
> in
> > con:cern language (preffered English but German is ok as well)?
> >
> > 5.) Can you point me to some interesting articles concernig case
> handling?
> > The best with case handling and workflow examples.
> >
> > Thanks for help
> >
> > Fero
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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