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From: matt d. <mm_...@ya...> - 2007-05-25 06:08:42
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Just a thought- lots of programmers play poker to chill, me included. |
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From: matt d. <mm_...@ya...> - 2007-05-25 06:01:58
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Trust me- I inherited a Smarty mess and you don't want to go there. As much as I want to vent, I won't bore anyone. I mostly build data driven business apps and prefer using PHP, JSON and AJAX. One thing I'm interested in is building javascript template stores and just sending data with JSON (from PHP data row objects) and letting JS format the template. I use PHP to parse regular HTML into JS template fragments and assemble them on demand. It handles huge chunks of data very quickly. Think of a quote that has 200 parts. If I sent HTML from the server it would be about 10MB. Much too long for a sales reps attention span. (We also use Apache's compression mod but sometimes that has issues). I also use Prototype library and other Proto add on's like Event.Selectors. If you haven't checked out Event.Selectors do it now: http://www.encytemedia.com/event-selectors/ Instead of 50 different repetitive onchange or onclicks you can move all that logic out of the template and the library loads it as a CSS event listener you define once. Anyone else doing apps like this? I also recommend anyone on the list subscribe to Ajaxian. I'm always seeing really cool techniques from the newsletter. http://ajaxian.com/ Lastly- Our company also tried an India remote team experiment and although I got a nice trip to New Delhi and Chennai out it, it was not worth enduring the bad phone connections and really bad programming we got tired of re-writing from scratch. If you think 3 years experience is weak here. 3 years experience from India gets you some really tortuous spaghetti coding. I noticed things that I never knew drove me crazy. Like someone always using a var $int_ID instead of $ID even though all our tables use ID as an integer? It's pointless. Trivial? You tell me. I'm sure there are good India programmers out there in a country that big. We just didn't find them- they tend to move here. Side-note- India programming operations have really cool communal lunches which are amazing and quite tasty. I just wish I didn't see the condition of the lunch truck on my way out. Matt ----- Original Message ---- From: Larry Garfield <la...@ga...> To: chi...@li... Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:19:43 PM Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) ] Smarty used as a tag library, yeah, over-engineered. Smarty used as a pull-based architecture, I can see being nice. One of these days I should try using it that way to see if I'm right. :-) On Thursday 24 May 2007, matt donohue wrote: > You forgot ColdFusion. > And throw Smarty into the bad idea category (and don't anyone try and > convince me otherwise). > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...> > To: Nola Stowe <mrn...@gm...> > Cc: chi...@li...; Anacreo <an...@gm...> > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:50:37 AM > Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening > (phpWalter) ] > > > I dunno... > > I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails, Python, Perl are all great and have their > place even if they're not for me. > > But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don't > suck, by any objective measure. :-) > > To be fair, AppleScript also sucks, mainly because there are about a > hundred ways you COULD express anything, but only 5 of them work, and > with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I could ever discern... I found > myself more frustrated by its English-like syntax and loosely-defined > documentation than helped... But maybe that's just me. > > COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it... > > On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote: > > what a subject change! > > > > I love ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on > > your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal > > in life to end language hate. People who spew blanket statments like > > "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent > > over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language and in > > some cases, they can work together :) I wrote some posts about php > > and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers. > > > > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: > >> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on > >> Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning another > >> language... > >> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the > >> Rails > >> framework? > >> > >> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: > >> > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. > >> > > >> > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. > >> > > >> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of > >> > >> affairs of > >> > >> > the economy and the development community at large. > >> > > >> > Walter > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >--- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > >> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > >> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > >> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > >> > chi...@li... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > >> chi...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > > > -- > > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl > > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > _______________________________________________ > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > chi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 la...@ga... ICQ: 6817012 "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ _______________________________________________ chiPHPug-discuss mailing list chi...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss |
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From: Larry G. <la...@ga...> - 2007-05-25 04:20:16
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Smarty used as a tag library, yeah, over-engineered. Smarty used as a pull-based architecture, I can see being nice. One of these days I should try using it that way to see if I'm right. :-) On Thursday 24 May 2007, matt donohue wrote: > You forgot ColdFusion. > And throw Smarty into the bad idea category (and don't anyone try and > convince me otherwise). > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...> > To: Nola Stowe <mrn...@gm...> > Cc: chi...@li...; Anacreo <an...@gm...> > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:50:37 AM > Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening > (phpWalter) ] > > > I dunno... > > I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails, Python, Perl are all great and have their > place even if they're not for me. > > But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don't > suck, by any objective measure. :-) > > To be fair, AppleScript also sucks, mainly because there are about a > hundred ways you COULD express anything, but only 5 of them work, and > with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I could ever discern... I found > myself more frustrated by its English-like syntax and loosely-defined > documentation than helped... But maybe that's just me. > > COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it... > > On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote: > > what a subject change! > > > > I love ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on > > your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal > > in life to end language hate. People who spew blanket statments like > > "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent > > over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language and in > > some cases, they can work together :) I wrote some posts about php > > and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers. > > > > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: > >> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on > >> Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning another > >> language... > >> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the > >> Rails > >> framework? > >> > >> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: > >> > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. > >> > > >> > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. > >> > > >> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of > >> > >> affairs of > >> > >> > the economy and the development community at large. > >> > > >> > Walter > >> > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >--- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > >> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > >> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > >> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > >> > chi...@li... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > >> chi...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > > > -- > > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl > > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > _______________________________________________ > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > chi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss -- Larry Garfield AIM: LOLG42 la...@ga... ICQ: 6817012 "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it." -- Thomas Jefferson |
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From: Chris C. <chr...@ho...> - 2007-05-25 03:26:53
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To phpWalter: It takes a man with a big heart to apologize, I gotta hand yo= u that. To Richard: Thanks.I think Ruby on Rails is a good thing for PHP. R= OR hasten's the process of a PHP Flagship Framework. I work with so many h= ard-to maintain legacy projects (poorly implemented MVC, sql queries found = in view template pages, poorly formed sql queries), that I found myself chu= ckling at http://www.railsenvy.com/ . So many PHP based project platforms = (phpBB, creLoaded, wordPress..) badly need upgrades and I believe PHP 5+ OO= P and a PHP Flagship Framework would help. phpWalter, installing ROR on my = dedicated server is on my iGoogle To-Do-List. I am hoping I wont accidental= ly waste one terabyte of bandwidth like I did with my other pet project <gr= in>. > From: chi...@li...> Subject: chiPH= Pug-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 12> To: chi...@li...urceforg= e.net> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:50:44 -0700> > Send chiPHPug-discuss maili= ng list submissions to> chi...@li...> > To subsc= ribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> https://lists.sourcefor= ge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> or, via email, send a message with = subject or body 'help' to> chi...@li...>= > You can reach the person managing the list at> chiphpug-discuss-owner@l= ists.sourceforge.net> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it = is more specific> than "Re: Contents of chiPHPug-discuss digest..."> > > To= day's Topics:> > 1. Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) (Anacreo)> = 2. Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) (Keith Casey)> 3. Rails was [= Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) ] (Nola Stowe)> 4. PHP programm= er opening (phpWalter) (Hank Marquardt)> 5. Re: PHP programmer opening (= phpWalter) (Jason Rexilius)> 6. Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) (= Richard Lynch)> 7. Re: Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter= ) ]> (Richard Lynch)> > > -------------------------------------------= ---------------------------> > Message: 1> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:35:21 = -0500> From: Anacreo <an...@gm...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] P= HP programmer opening (phpWalter)> To: chi...@li...urceforge.n= et> Message-ID:> <69c...@ma...ail.c= om>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > Reg= arding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on> Rails...= I can't believe I'm going to start learning another language...> Has anyo= ne endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the Rails> framewo= rk?> > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote:> >> > I must apol= ogize to the group, and to Jennifer.> >> > I should not have "ranted' like = that. It was out of place.> >> > This is not the venue to share my frustrat= ion at the state of affairs of> > the economy and the development community= at large.> >> > Walter> >> > ---------------------------------------------= ----------------------------> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Expre= ss> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > = control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > http://s= ourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > ___________________________________________= ____> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > chi...@li...urceforge= .net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> >= > ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:= 44:59 -0400> From: "Keith Casey" <mai...@ca...>> Subject:= Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP programmer opening (phpWalter)> To: phpWalter <= php...@to...>> Cc: chi...@li...> Message-I= D:> <fd2...@ma...>> Content= -Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > On 5/23/07, php= Walter <php...@to...> wrote:> > I should not have "ranted' like that= . It was out of place.> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at = the state of affairs of> > the economy and the development community at lar= ge.> > The odd thing is that here on the DC PHP list - I'm the lead mod - w= e> had a similar explosion last week. It started from a single recruiter> = posting a silly ad, a few people ranted, and it grew from there.> > I think= we - the community as a whole - is in this position where> those of us who= went through the 2000-2003 timeframe trying to> get/keep a job are a bit b= urned, some of the companies looking to hire> are a bit clueless, and recru= iters step in the middle. Some of them> are clueless, some of them aren't = and just have clueless clients...> but it's not good for anyone involved.> = > My 0.02,> kc> > -- > D. Keith Casey Jr.> CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC> http://= CaseySoftware.com> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date= : Wed, 23 May 2007 17:50:25 -0500> From: "Nola Stowe" <mrn...@gm...= m>> Subject: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening> (p= hpWalter) ]> To: Anacreo <an...@gm...>> Cc: chi...@li...= urceforge.net> Message-ID:> <43e95380705231550n76b169d1g474c54595d748e84@m= ail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dfl= owed> > what a subject change!> > I love ruby .... and rails is a great fra= mework. It all depends on> your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place.= .. Its is my new goal> in life to end language hate. People who spew blanke= t statments like> "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to s= ome extent> over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language = and in> some cases, they can work together :) I wrote some posts about php= > and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers.> > On 5/23/07, Anacre= o <an...@gm...> wrote:> > Regarding that... boy am I impressed with t= he video tours of Ruby on> > Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start l= earning another language...> > Has anyone endeavored down that road and hav= e any thoughts about the Rails> > framework?> >> > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <p= hpW...@to...> wrote:> > >> > > I must apologize to the group, and to = Jennifer.> > >> > > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of pla= ce.> > >> > > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of= affairs of> > > the economy and the development community at large.> > >> = > > Walter> > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------= -------------------> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > >= Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > > con= trol of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > > http://so= urceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > > __________________________________________= _____> > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > > chi...@li...urce= forge.net> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discus= s> > >> > -----------------------------------------------------------------= --------> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 E= xpress C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > control of your XML.= No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > http://sourceforge.net/power= bar/db2/> > _______________________________________________> > chiPHPug-dis= cuss mailing list> > chi...@li...> > https://list= s.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> > > -- > http://rubyg= eek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl> http://DevChix.com - boys = can't have all the fun> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4>= Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:50:33 -0500> From: "Hank Marquardt" <hmarquardt@= gmail.com>> Subject: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP programmer opening (phpWalter)= > To: chi...@li...> Message-ID:> <b27f504c070523= 155...@ma...>> Content-Type: text/plain; c= harset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > I Love Rails ... done several produ= ction jobs at this point and all I can> say is that if you like CakePHP, y= ou'll simply be blown away by Rails. I> still code php as needed and at m= y regular gig, but given a choice at this> point I'll do Rails any day.> > = There are a couple downsides ... the execution model isn't multi-threaded s= o> your headed back to CGI land basically. There are some very nice> depl= oyment scenarios for Rails but none of them are as easy as copying some> fi= les to an apache server running mod_php and have it just work.> > Try it, y= ou'll like it, but you may be spoiled.> > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <anacreo@gmai= l.com> wrote:> >> > Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tou= rs of Ruby on> > Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning anot= her language...> > Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any though= ts about the Rails> > framework?> >> > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <phpWalter@tor= res.ws> wrote:> > >> > > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.> >= >> > > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place.> > >> > = > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of affairs of>= > > the economy and the development community at large.> > >> > > Walter> = > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------= ----------> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > > Download= DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > > control of y= our XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > > http://sourceforge= .net/powerbar/db2/> > > _______________________________________________> > = > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > > chi...@li...= > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> > >> >= ------------------------------------------------------------------------->= > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 Express C = - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > control of your XML. No limit= s. Just data. Click to get it now.> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/>= > _______________________________________________> > chiPHPug-discuss mail= ing list> > chi...@li...> > https://lists.sourcef= orge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> > > --------------------------= ----> > Message: 5> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 18:05:29 -0500> From: Jason Rexi= lius <ja...@ho...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP programmer= opening (phpWalter)> To: chi...@li...> Message-I= D: <465...@ho...>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3DI= SO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > I dont think the rant was overboard, but I do= hope Jennifer wasn't offended.> > I personally think the rate is low and a= m also a little tired of the > midwest penchant for trying to low ball on P= HP because its not an > "enterprise" language. In the Bay Area the dollar = rate may be low for a > position and that means they're looking for college= kid or newbie who > can jell with a team or some such.> > All that being s= aid, peoples points about environment making up for the > difference can be= valid. Also, even if they are a "meta" search engine, > its still good on= the resume as they do push a lot of numbers.> > > > phpWalter wrote:> > I = must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.> > > > I should not have "ran= ted' like that. It was out of place.> > > > This is not the venue to share = my frustration at the state of affairs of> > the economy and the developmen= t community at large.> > > > Walter> > > > --------------------------------= -----------------------------------------> > This SF.net email is sponsored= by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express= and take> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now= .> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > ______________________________= _________________> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > chiPHPug-discuss@list= s.sourceforge.net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-= discuss> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Thu, 24 = May 2007 12:47:10 -0500 (CDT)> From: "Richard Lynch" <ce...@l-...>> Subje= ct: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP programmer opening (phpWalter)> To: "Keith C= asey" <mai...@ca...>> Cc: chi...@li...urcefo= rge.net, phpWalter> <php...@to...>> Message-ID: <41512.216.230.84.6= 7.1...@ww...>> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=3Dis= o-8859-1> > On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:44 pm, Keith Casey wrote:> > On 5/23/07,= phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote:> >> I should not have "ranted' like= that. It was out of place.> >> This is not the venue to share my frustrati= on at the state of> >> affairs of> >> the economy and the development commu= nity at large.> >> > The odd thing is that here on the DC PHP list - I'm th= e lead mod - we> > had a similar explosion last week. It started from a si= ngle recruiter> > posting a silly ad, a few people ranted, and it grew from= there.> >> > I think we - the community as a whole - is in this position w= here> > those of us who went through the 2000-2003 timeframe trying to> > g= et/keep a job are a bit burned, some of the companies looking to hire> > ar= e a bit clueless, and recruiters step in the middle. Some of them> > are c= lueless, some of them aren't and just have clueless clients...> > but it's = not good for anyone involved.> > I personally have given up on Recruiters, = for my own personal purposes.> > I have no objection to posting their Job O= ffers, but I'm not likely to> ever work with one again...> > I've never had= a good experience with a recruiter, personally, in my> half-dozen or so in= teractions.> > I have no doubt that somewhere out there is a good one, but = I'm not> willing to spend any more time trying to figure out the good from = the> bad, when they all sound good at first.> > As far as pricing and the d= ot-boom, dot-bomb, and dot-boom 2.0 goes,> I'd have to say that prices are = going up steadily at this point, and> certainly there seems to be a lot mor= e work.> > I daresay it's even more SENSIBLE work available than in the hey= day of> dot-boom -- Though the ridiculous no-chance-of-long-term-success gl= ut> of the dot-boom added in changes that. But I'd take less work with> bet= ter chances of success over the IPO VC zero to sixty to zero glut> any day.= > > -- > Some people have a "gift" link here.> Know what I want?> I want yo= u to buy a CD from some indie artist.> http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch>= Yeah, I get a buck. So?> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message= : 7> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 12:50:37 -0500 (CDT)> From: "Richard Lynch" <ce= o...@l-...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programme= r opening> (phpWalter) ]> To: "Nola Stowe" <mrn...@gm...>> Cc: ch= iph...@li..., Anacreo> <an...@gm...>> Messag= e-ID: <415...@ww...>> Content-Type= : text/plain;charset=3Diso-8859-1> > I dunno...> > I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails= , Python, Perl are all great and have their> place even if they're not for = me.> > But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don'= t> suck, by any objective measure. :-)> > To be fair, AppleScript also suck= s, mainly because there are about a> hundred ways you COULD express anythin= g, but only 5 of them work, and> with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I cou= ld ever discern... I found> myself more frustrated by its English-like syn= tax and loosely-defined> documentation than helped... But maybe that's jus= t me.> > COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it...> > On Wed, May= 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote:> > what a subject change!> >> > I love= ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on> > your need. = PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal> > in life to en= d language hate. People who spew blanket statments like> > "XX language suc= ks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent> > over the past ... i'= ve learned there are purposes for language and in> > some cases, they can w= ork together :) I wrote some posts about php> > and rails getting along la= st summer at CodeSnipers.> >> > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wro= te:> >> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby o= n> >> Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning another> >> lan= guage...> >> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts abo= ut the> >> Rails> >> framework?> >>> >> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <phpWalter@to= rres.ws> wrote:> >> >> >> > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer.= > >> >> >> > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place.> >>= >> >> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of> >> = affairs of> >> > the economy and the development community at large.> >> >>= >> > Walter> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------= -----------------------> >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express= > >> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> >= > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> >> > h= ttp://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> >> > _________________________________= ______________> >> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> >> > chiPHPug-discuss@l= ists.sourceforge.net> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chi= phpug-discuss> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------= ----------------------> >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> >= > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> >> con= trol of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> >> http://sou= rceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> >> ____________________________________________= ___> >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> >> chi...@li...urceforg= e.net> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >>= > >> >> > --> > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl= > > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun> >> > ----------------= ---------------------------------------------------------> > This SF.net em= ail is sponsored by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE versio= n of DB2 express and take> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Cli= ck to get it now.> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > ______________= _________________________________> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > chiPH= Pug...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/li= stinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> > > -- > Some people have a "gift" link here.> = Know what I want?> I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist.> http://c= dbaby.com/browse/from/lynch> Yeah, I get a buck. So?> > > > > -------------= -----------------> > ------------------------------------------------------= -------------------> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> Downloa= d DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> control of your= XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> http://sourceforge.net/po= werbar/db2/> > ------------------------------> > __________________________= _____________________> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> chiPHPug-discuss@list= s.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-di= scuss> > > End of chiPHPug-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 12> **************= ********************************** _________________________________________________________________ Create the ultimate e-mail address book. Import your contacts to Windows Li= ve Hotmail. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/managemail2.html?locale=3Den-us&ocid= =3DTXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_impcont_0507= |
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From: matt d. <mm_...@ya...> - 2007-05-24 22:21:01
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You forgot ColdFusion. And throw Smarty into the bad idea category (and don't anyone try and convince me otherwise). ----- Original Message ---- From: Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...> To: Nola Stowe <mrn...@gm...> Cc: chi...@li...; Anacreo <an...@gm...> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:50:37 AM Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Rails was [ Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter) ] I dunno... I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails, Python, Perl are all great and have their place even if they're not for me. But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don't suck, by any objective measure. :-) To be fair, AppleScript also sucks, mainly because there are about a hundred ways you COULD express anything, but only 5 of them work, and with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I could ever discern... I found myself more frustrated by its English-like syntax and loosely-defined documentation than helped... But maybe that's just me. COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it... On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote: > what a subject change! > > I love ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on > your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal > in life to end language hate. People who spew blanket statments like > "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent > over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language and in > some cases, they can work together :) I wrote some posts about php > and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers. > > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: >> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on >> Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning another >> language... >> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the >> Rails >> framework? >> >> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: >> > >> > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. >> > >> > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. >> > >> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of >> affairs of >> > the economy and the development community at large. >> > >> > Walter >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list >> > chi...@li... >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >> _______________________________________________ >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list >> chi...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss >> > > > -- > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > -- Some people have a "gift" link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ _______________________________________________ chiPHPug-discuss mailing list chi...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss |
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From: <ce...@l-...> - 2007-05-24 19:01:05
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ChiPHPug (Chicago PHP Users Group) brunch social is coming up. If I wrote the PHP code correctly, it's on 06/02/2007 For sure, it's on the FIRST SATURDAY of each month. Time: 1 pm Location: Uncommon Ground http://uncommonground.com Directions: Find Wrigley Field. Drive 1.5 blocks Northwest on Clark. Park. There are several spots that have no meter but are perfectly legal right on the corner. |
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From: Richard L. <ce...@l-...> - 2007-05-24 17:50:43
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I dunno... I mean, okay, Ruby/Rails, Python, Perl are all great and have their place even if they're not for me. But you're gonna have a hard time convincing me that ASP and VB don't suck, by any objective measure. :-) To be fair, AppleScript also sucks, mainly because there are about a hundred ways you COULD express anything, but only 5 of them work, and with no rationale behind the 1-in-20 I could ever discern... I found myself more frustrated by its English-like syntax and loosely-defined documentation than helped... But maybe that's just me. COBOL pretty much sucks too, come to think of it... On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:50 pm, Nola Stowe wrote: > what a subject change! > > I love ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on > your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal > in life to end language hate. People who spew blanket statments like > "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent > over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language and in > some cases, they can work together :) I wrote some posts about php > and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers. > > On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: >> Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on >> Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning another >> language... >> Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the >> Rails >> framework? >> >> On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: >> > >> > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. >> > >> > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. >> > >> > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of >> affairs of >> > the economy and the development community at large. >> > >> > Walter >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >> > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >> > _______________________________________________ >> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list >> > chi...@li... >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >> _______________________________________________ >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list >> chi...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss >> > > > -- > http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl > http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > -- Some people have a "gift" link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? |
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From: Richard L. <ce...@l-...> - 2007-05-24 17:47:26
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On Wed, May 23, 2007 5:44 pm, Keith Casey wrote: > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: >> I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. >> This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of >> affairs of >> the economy and the development community at large. > > The odd thing is that here on the DC PHP list - I'm the lead mod - we > had a similar explosion last week. It started from a single recruiter > posting a silly ad, a few people ranted, and it grew from there. > > I think we - the community as a whole - is in this position where > those of us who went through the 2000-2003 timeframe trying to > get/keep a job are a bit burned, some of the companies looking to hire > are a bit clueless, and recruiters step in the middle. Some of them > are clueless, some of them aren't and just have clueless clients... > but it's not good for anyone involved. I personally have given up on Recruiters, for my own personal purposes. I have no objection to posting their Job Offers, but I'm not likely to ever work with one again... I've never had a good experience with a recruiter, personally, in my half-dozen or so interactions. I have no doubt that somewhere out there is a good one, but I'm not willing to spend any more time trying to figure out the good from the bad, when they all sound good at first. As far as pricing and the dot-boom, dot-bomb, and dot-boom 2.0 goes, I'd have to say that prices are going up steadily at this point, and certainly there seems to be a lot more work. I daresay it's even more SENSIBLE work available than in the heyday of dot-boom -- Though the ridiculous no-chance-of-long-term-success glut of the dot-boom added in changes that. But I'd take less work with better chances of success over the IPO VC zero to sixty to zero glut any day. -- Some people have a "gift" link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? |
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From: Jason R. <ja...@ho...> - 2007-05-23 23:05:32
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I dont think the rant was overboard, but I do hope Jennifer wasn't offended. I personally think the rate is low and am also a little tired of the midwest penchant for trying to low ball on PHP because its not an "enterprise" language. In the Bay Area the dollar rate may be low for a position and that means they're looking for college kid or newbie who can jell with a team or some such. All that being said, peoples points about environment making up for the difference can be valid. Also, even if they are a "meta" search engine, its still good on the resume as they do push a lot of numbers. phpWalter wrote: > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. > > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. > > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of affairs of > the economy and the development community at large. > > Walter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss |
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From: Hank M. <hma...@gm...> - 2007-05-23 22:57:19
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I Love Rails ... done several production jobs at this point and all I can say is that if you like CakePHP, you'll simply be blown away by Rails. I still code php as needed and at my regular gig, but given a choice at this point I'll do Rails any day. There are a couple downsides ... the execution model isn't multi-threaded so your headed back to CGI land basically. There are some very nice deployment scenarios for Rails but none of them are as easy as copying some files to an apache server running mod_php and have it just work. Try it, you'll like it, but you may be spoiled. On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: > > Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on > Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning another language... > Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the Rails > framework? > > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: > > > > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. > > > > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. > > > > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of affairs of > > the economy and the development community at large. > > > > Walter > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > _______________________________________________ > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > chi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > |
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From: Nola S. <mrn...@gm...> - 2007-05-23 22:50:35
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what a subject change! I love ruby .... and rails is a great framework. It all depends on your need. PHP, Perl, Ruby all have their place... Its is my new goal in life to end language hate. People who spew blanket statments like "XX language sucks!" ... of which I have been guilty to some extent over the past ... i've learned there are purposes for language and in some cases, they can work together :) I wrote some posts about php and rails getting along last summer at CodeSnipers. On 5/23/07, Anacreo <an...@gm...> wrote: > Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on > Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning another language... > Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the Rails > framework? > > On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: > > > > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. > > > > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. > > > > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of affairs of > > the economy and the development community at large. > > > > Walter > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > > _______________________________________________ > > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > > chi...@li... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > -- http://rubygeek.com - my blog featuring: Ruby, PHP and Perl http://DevChix.com - boys can't have all the fun |
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From: Keith C. <mai...@ca...> - 2007-05-23 22:45:15
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On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of affairs of > the economy and the development community at large. The odd thing is that here on the DC PHP list - I'm the lead mod - we had a similar explosion last week. It started from a single recruiter posting a silly ad, a few people ranted, and it grew from there. I think we - the community as a whole - is in this position where those of us who went through the 2000-2003 timeframe trying to get/keep a job are a bit burned, some of the companies looking to hire are a bit clueless, and recruiters step in the middle. Some of them are clueless, some of them aren't and just have clueless clients... but it's not good for anyone involved. My 0.02, kc -- D. Keith Casey Jr. CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC http://CaseySoftware.com |
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From: Anacreo <an...@gm...> - 2007-05-23 22:35:33
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Regarding that... boy am I impressed with the video tours of Ruby on Rails... I can't believe I'm going to start learning another language... Has anyone endeavored down that road and have any thoughts about the Rails framework? On 5/23/07, phpWalter <php...@to...> wrote: > > I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. > > I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. > > This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of affairs of > the economy and the development community at large. > > Walter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > |
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From: phpWalter <php...@to...> - 2007-05-23 22:25:37
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I must apologize to the group, and to Jennifer. I should not have "ranted' like that. It was out of place. This is not the venue to share my frustration at the state of affairs of the economy and the development community at large. Walter |
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From: Richard L. <ce...@l-...> - 2007-05-23 21:54:12
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On Wed, May 23, 2007 10:06 am, Jennifer Stander wrote: >> Remember you get what you pay for. And conversely, you get (the job) >> they >> pay you for. >> >> [OK, I'm done b$^ching) >> >> Walter > > I normally wouldn't reply to this, but I should clarify that yes it is > hourly and that your math is incorrect. On the high end of the pay > range we are offering, the programmer would make close to $70K a year, > which is more than your calculated $1250 a month. Anybody in this group who pays attention also has two former employees (I'm one of them) that they could ask for background info. For me, info.com was a great place to work, for many reasons. The hourly wages offered in Jennifer's post had a pretty wide range, presumably commensurate with experience, so I also thought the math was a bit skewed by taking the "average" of 23 and 33. If you're worth $33/hour == $66k/year (give or take) that was on the table in the original email. Keep in mind this is for a solid 40 hours a week, not some catch-as-catch-can freelance rate, where you may only have 10 billable hours a month. There's a huge difference in scope and scale there, so hourly freelance rates, and hourly full-time rates are apples and oranges. Be that as it may, if you're right for the job, and it appeals, I daresay you can upsell your price some anyway. Three years' experience is not exactly "expert", imho. Maybe some folks became experts in 3 years, but not most. Hell, most PHP scripters don't get past a basic guestbook in their first year :-) :-) :-) -- Some people have a "gift" link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? |
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From: Richard L. <ce...@l-...> - 2007-05-23 21:45:15
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On Wed, May 23, 2007 10:55 am, Arlo Leach wrote: > By the way, I hired a plumber to come fix my garbage disposal a while > back, > and his hourly rate was over 1.5x mine ... maybe we're all in the > wrong > business! (smile) Kinda depends how fast he fixed it, and how well the job was done. :-) -- Some people have a "gift" link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? |
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From: Richard L. <ce...@l-...> - 2007-05-23 21:41:24
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I don't think you can make a blanket-statement about search engine friendly URLs... I mean, they all work a bit different, and all of them will have their own heuristic of what makes a URL "better" to follow or index or rank. Of course, the actualy CONTENT of the page ocunts for a lot more, but the URL is taken into account still. There's also the crucial question of HUMAN usability -- Oft-times what people were making for a nice easy SEO friendly URL had the added bonus, and sometimes pre-requisite, of being a URL humans can remember... On Wed, May 23, 2007 9:55 am, Chris Calip wrote: > Jennifer forgot to mention her workplace has a nice view and ambience. > But anyways, folks I am hoping someone could help me find a url that > dismisses the popular notion about Search Engine Friendly URLs with > mod_rewrite. From what I can remember the guy from Apache mentioned in > the php tek conference that mod_rewrite URL's is not part of the SEO > equation anymore.Again, If someone please send me a link dismissing > Search Engine Friendly URLs with mod_rewrite.Thanks,Chris Calip> From: > chi...@li...> Subject: > chiPHPug-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9> To: > chi...@li...> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 > 16:55:45 -0700> > Send chiPHPug-discuss mailing list submissions to> > chi...@li...> > To subscribe or unsubscribe > via the World Wide Web, visit> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> or, > via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> > chi...@li...urcefo > rge.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> > chi...@li...> > When replying, > please edit your Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: > Contents of chiPHPug-discuss digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. > PHP programmer opening (Jennifer Stander)> 2. Re: PHP programmer > opening (phpWalter)> 3. Re: PHP Tek Conference (Roderick Thomas)> > 4. Service Agency Profile: Review Process (Roderick Thomas)> 5. > Re: Service Agency Profile: Review Process (Richard Lynch)> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > > Message: 1> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:24:36 -0500> From: "Jennifer > Stander" <jen...@gm...>> Subject: [chiPHPug-discuss] > PHP programmer opening> To: chi...@li...> > Message-ID:> > <58e...@ma...>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > My > company is hiring a second programmer. It' > s pretty relaxed,> located downtown, and I'm an awesome person to > work with. The pay is> $23-$33 depending on experience, no benefits. > If anyone here is> interested, send your resume to > jdi...@in.... If you have any> questions, feel free to contact > me directly.> > Here is the description:> > The prime objectives of > the role are assist our London office with the> implementation> > technical changes to include the integration of web content via API's > to our> platform that meet business and> technical objectives and to > develop applications of> high-quality that can be maintained, that > follow a> strategic policy of re-use, and that scale and perform> > well for high-volume traffic.> > * Undertake development activities > in an efficient> way and to the highest standards.> * Understand > Info.com business strategy and ensure that> development tasks are > undertaken in order to meet> business objectives.> * Provide accurate > estimates for the duration and> effort required to complete > development tasks.> * Communicate effectively with the CEO and CFO > in order to advise> on pros and cons of technical approach and to > provide> progress status reports.> * Supply innovative ideas and > suggestions for> improvement in working practices and technologies.> > * Ensure that skills are maintained and improved> through formal > training, self-learning and monitoring> relevant user groups, web > sites and other resources.> * Ensure that a professional approach is > taken to the> whole software development lifecycle in order to > ensure> that requirements are understood, developed and> implemented > in an efficient and high-quality manner.> > > > Skills/Qualifications:> > * At least 3 years software development > experience in a> web environment> > * Hands-on understanding of > operating system,> development and web site technologies > particularly Linux, PHP, MySQL, XML,> HTML, CSS and Ajax.> * Ability > to review and then link with> external API's.> * Understanding of > the security and> pe > rformance implications associated with web> technologies.> * Good > knowledge of infrastructure architecture,> scalability and stress > testing performance issues.> * A self-starter, able to work without > supervision,> driven to succeed.> * A good understanding of web > search products and> strategy; the difference between search engines, > search> aggregators, portals, crawlers. Good knowledge of> search > methods and taxonomies.> > > > ------------------------------> > > Message: 2> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:41:22 -0500 (CDT)> From: > "phpWalter" <php...@to...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] > PHP programmer opening> To: chi...@li...> > Message-ID:> > <337...@ma...>> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1> > > > My company is > hiring a second programmer. ... pay is $23-$33 ...> > no benefits.> > > ( I assume an hour- if annual, this is even worse)> > The the pay get > lower, the benefits are gone, and the requirem > ents keep> growing.> > The day will come when the developers join a > union to help stem this tide.> > $56k (median) a year. Not bad, but > then, I hope your married so you can> have insurance from your > spouse. Or your living at home so you can spend> $5k for insurance. I > hope you don't think you don't need insurance.> > I know my mortgage > is half this offer. But let's not forget taxes. 30% off> the Top. > $17k, that leaves only $39k.> > After my house payment and taxes, > that leaves $1,250 a month for> groceries, lights, gas, car > insurance, etc.> > Wow! Offering someone with 3 year experience in > the real word $1250 a month.> > And folks wonder why kids still live > at home.> > It's so sad. And you know what's even sadder? They'll > find someone who> will take this job. And chances are that person > will not be all that> talented, so> "management" distrusts developers > even more, adds more restrictions and> requirements on the next guy, > usually driving the cost even lower.> > Can't tell y > ou how many times I've been asked to "clean up" a project> because > "they" went cheap, and then told my they didn;t have the budget to> > do much because they blew it on the first guy.> > Remember you get > what you pay for. And conversely, you get (the job) they> pay you > for.> > [OK, I'm done b$^ching)> > Walter> > > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 > 15:04:24 -0400> From: "Roderick Thomas" <tho...@ms...>> Subject: > Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP Tek Conference> To: > chi...@li...> Message-ID: > <op....@x0...>> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;> > charset=iso-8859-15> > I don't have a Linux system; I'm using > Windows. So I guess I'll try using > the pastebin.com suggestion.> > > > On Mon, 21 May 2007 15:01:09 -0400, Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...> > wrote:> > > Sounds like a plan, but post a link to your source using > something> > like http://phpfi.org or http://past > ebin.com> >> > Another option is to have a copy (or symlink in Linux) > with .phps on> > the end, and turn on syntax_highlighting in > httpd.conf -- This lets> > you share the "live" code actually being > used direct from your> > website.> >> > Large chunks of code pasted > to a mailing list tend to get annoying> > quickly, if you know what I > mean.> >> > On Mon, May 21, 2007 8:08 am, Roderick Thomas wrote:> >> > It was good to see some familiar faces during the conference.> >> > Although I> >> wasn't able to talk long, I tried to have a brief > conversation with> >> the> >> folks that I recognized.> >>> >> > Jason...thanks for the rides from Evanston. They really made life> > >> simple> >> for those days.> >>> >> I'm looking forward to the > upcoming meetings and I'm definitely> >> planning> >> to take > advantage of the new "Beginner's Break" segment of the> >> meetings.> > >> I'm thinking that it may be helpful if I shared my code with the> > >> group.> >> This way you guys could suggest readings > for areas that need> >> improvement. And these things could then > serve as topics for> >> discussion> >> during the "Beginner's > Breaks."> >>> >> What are your thoughts?> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------> > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> >> Download DB2 > Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> >> control of > your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> >> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> >> > _______________________________________________> >> chiPHPug-discuss > mailing list> >> chi...@li...> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >>> >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Tue, > 22 May 2007 16:41:39 -0400> From: "Roderick Thomas" > <tho...@ms...>> Subject: [chiPHPug-discuss] Service Agency > Profile: Review Process> To: > "chi...@li..."> > <chi...@li...urc > eforge.net>> Message-ID: > <op....@x0...>> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes;> > charset=iso-8859-15> > I've posted my code with comments here:> > > http://sap-review.pastebin.com/912475> > Please review and make > suggestions (readings, applications, structure, > shortcuts, etc.) > so that I can start preparing to take advantage of the > "beginner's > break" segment of the next meeting.> > Thanks for your help.> > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 > 16:26:34 -0500 (CDT)> From: "Richard Lynch" <ce...@l-...>> Subject: > Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Service Agency Profile: Review Process> To: > "Roderick Thomas" <tho...@ms...>> Cc: > "chi...@li..."> > <chi...@li...>> Message-ID: > <606...@ww...>> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1> > Pastebin keeps giving > me an error about "recent write" and some kin > d> of lock file...> > So I've posted a response here:> > http://l-i-e.com/roderick.phps> > On Tue, May 22, 2007 3:41 pm, > Roderick Thomas wrote:> > I've posted my code with comments here:> >> > > http://sap-review.pastebin.com/912475> >> > Please review and make > suggestions (readings, applications, structure,> > shortcuts, etc.) > so that I can start preparing to take advantage of> > the> > > "beginner's break" segment of the next meeting.> >> > Thanks for your > help.> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> > Download DB2 > Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > control of > your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > > _______________________________________________> > chiPHPug-discuss > mailing list> > chi...@li...> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> > > > -- > Some people have > a "gift" link here.> Know what I want?> I want you to buy a CD from > some indie artist.> http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch> Yeah, I get > a buck. So?> > > > > ------------------------------> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> Download DB2 Express C > - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> control of your XML. No > limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > > ------------------------------> > > _______________________________________________> chiPHPug-discuss > mailing list> chi...@li...> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> > > > End of chiPHPug-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9> > *********************************************** > _________________________________________________________________ > Create the ultimate e-mail address book. Import your contacts to > Windows Live Hotmail. > www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/managemail2.html?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_impcont_0507 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > -- Some people have a "gift" link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? |
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From: Jough D. <jou...@gm...> - 2007-05-23 19:27:22
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I think Walter's point was that even the high range of this contract is *well* below the average rate for a local developer. On 5/23/07, Arlo Leach <ar...@ar...> wrote: > > Normally I would say, "If the pay is too low for you, just don't take the > job," but this really rang true for me: > > > It's so sad. And you know what's even sadder? They'll find someone who > > will take this job. And chances are that person will not be all that > > talented, so > > "management" distrusts developers even more, adds more restrictions and > > requirements on the next guy, usually driving the cost even lower. > > > > Can't tell you how many times I've been asked to "clean up" a project > > because "they" went cheap, and then told my they didn;t have the budget > to > > do much because they blew it on the first guy. > > I think offering an entry-level wage is fine if an employer is prepared to > have an entry-level person. If the employer isn't knowledgeable enough to > offer a wage appropriate to the experience level, or to evaluate the > experience level in their candidates, that's a problem. This isn't about > Jennifer at all, just a general comment about what I've seen in my own > work. > > One thing I will often try to do, though, is move the conversation away > from > the hourly rate to a total cost estimate. If I can do something in 1/4 the > time for twice the rate, then I'm still half as expensive as the other > guy. > Most clients will respond well to honest conversations like that. > > By the way, I hired a plumber to come fix my garbage disposal a while > back, > and his hourly rate was over 1.5x mine ... maybe we're all in the wrong > business! (smile) > > Cheers, > -Arlo > > _______________________________ > > Arlo Leach > 773.769.6106 > http://arlomedia.com > > Find. Be Found. > http://www.newwhitepages.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > -- Jough Dempsey http://jough.com 312.399.6379 (mobile) |
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From: Arlo L. <ar...@ar...> - 2007-05-23 15:55:38
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Normally I would say, "If the pay is too low for you, just don't take the job," but this really rang true for me: > It's so sad. And you know what's even sadder? They'll find someone who > will take this job. And chances are that person will not be all that > talented, so > "management" distrusts developers even more, adds more restrictions and > requirements on the next guy, usually driving the cost even lower. > > Can't tell you how many times I've been asked to "clean up" a project > because "they" went cheap, and then told my they didn;t have the budget to > do much because they blew it on the first guy. I think offering an entry-level wage is fine if an employer is prepared to have an entry-level person. If the employer isn't knowledgeable enough to offer a wage appropriate to the experience level, or to evaluate the experience level in their candidates, that's a problem. This isn't about Jennifer at all, just a general comment about what I've seen in my own work. One thing I will often try to do, though, is move the conversation away from the hourly rate to a total cost estimate. If I can do something in 1/4 the time for twice the rate, then I'm still half as expensive as the other guy. Most clients will respond well to honest conversations like that. By the way, I hired a plumber to come fix my garbage disposal a while back, and his hourly rate was over 1.5x mine ... maybe we're all in the wrong business! (smile) Cheers, -Arlo _______________________________ Arlo Leach 773.769.6106 http://arlomedia.com Find. Be Found. http://www.newwhitepages.com |
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From: Anacreo <an...@gm...> - 2007-05-23 15:23:08
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While I do agree with the financials Walter layed out in my personal situation, not everyone has the same situation. I don't think that in that range Jennifer will garner a top PHP programmer but if she makes the offer and she gets someone that's fantastic for her company. I'll tell you working for the last 10 years in corporate America, the best people tend to be the ones who don't ask for the most money because they carae more about the job and less about the moolah. I know plenty of people who earned more money then I did while working in nice corporate jobs and weren't worth their weight in any substance I knew of, and that includes air. My 2 cents. Alec On 5/23/07, Jennifer Stander <jen...@gm...> wrote: > > > Remember you get what you pay for. And conversely, you get (the job) > they > > pay you for. > > > > [OK, I'm done b$^ching) > > > > Walter > > I normally wouldn't reply to this, but I should clarify that yes it is > hourly and that your math is incorrect. On the high end of the pay > range we are offering, the programmer would make close to $70K a year, > which is more than your calculated $1250 a month. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > |
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From: Jennifer S. <jen...@gm...> - 2007-05-23 15:06:13
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> Remember you get what you pay for. And conversely, you get (the job) they > pay you for. > > [OK, I'm done b$^ching) > > Walter I normally wouldn't reply to this, but I should clarify that yes it is hourly and that your math is incorrect. On the high end of the pay range we are offering, the programmer would make close to $70K a year, which is more than your calculated $1250 a month. |
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From: Chris C. <chr...@ho...> - 2007-05-23 14:55:26
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Jennifer forgot to mention her workplace has a nice view and ambience. But = anyways, folks I am hoping someone could help me find a url that dismisses = the popular notion about Search Engine Friendly URLs with mod_rewrite. From= what I can remember the guy from Apache mentioned in the php tek conferenc= e that mod_rewrite URL's is not part of the SEO equation anymore.Again, If = someone please send me a link dismissing Search Engine Friendly URLs with m= od_rewrite.Thanks,Chris Calip> From: chi...@li...urcef= orge.net> Subject: chiPHPug-discuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9> To: chiphpug-d= is...@li...> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 16:55:45 -0700> > Send= chiPHPug-discuss mailing list submissions to> chi...@li...ur= ceforge.net> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> = https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> or, via emai= l, send a message with subject or body 'help' to> chiphpug-discuss-request= @lists.sourceforge.net> > You can reach the person managing the list at> c= hip...@li...> > When replying, please edit y= our Subject line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of chiPHPug-dis= cuss digest..."> > > Today's Topics:> > 1. PHP programmer opening (Jenni= fer Stander)> 2. Re: PHP programmer opening (phpWalter)> 3. Re: PHP T= ek Conference (Roderick Thomas)> 4. Service Agency Profile: Review Proce= ss (Roderick Thomas)> 5. Re: Service Agency Profile: Review Process (Ric= hard Lynch)> > > ----------------------------------------------------------= ------------> > Message: 1> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 11:24:36 -0500> From: "J= ennifer Stander" <jen...@gm...>> Subject: [chiPHPug-discuss] = PHP programmer opening> To: chi...@li...> Message= -ID:> <58e...@ma...>> Conte= nt-Type: text/plain; charset=3DISO-8859-1; format=3Dflowed> > My company is= hiring a second programmer. It's pretty relaxed,> located downtown, and I= 'm an awesome person to work with. The pay is> $23-$33 depending on experi= ence, no benefits. If anyone here is> interested, send your resume to jdii= or...@in.... If you have any> questions, feel free to contact me directl= y.> > Here is the description:> > The prime objectives of the role are assi= st our London office with the> implementation> technical changes to include= the integration of web content via API's to our> platform that meet busine= ss and> technical objectives and to develop applications of> high-quality t= hat can be maintained, that follow a> strategic policy of re-use, and that = scale and perform> well for high-volume traffic.> > * Undertake development= activities in an efficient> way and to the highest standards.> * Understan= d Info.com business strategy and ensure that> development tasks are underta= ken in order to meet> business objectives.> * Provide accurate estimates fo= r the duration and> effort required to complete development tasks.> * Commu= nicate effectively with the CEO and CFO in order to advise> on pros and con= s of technical approach and to provide> progress status reports.> * Supply = innovative ideas and suggestions for> improvement in working practices and = technologies.> * Ensure that skills are maintained and improved> through fo= rmal training, self-learning and monitoring> relevant user groups, web site= s and other resources.> * Ensure that a professional approach is taken to t= he> whole software development lifecycle in order to ensure> that requireme= nts are understood, developed and> implemented in an efficient and high-qua= lity manner.> > > Skills/Qualifications:> > * At least 3 years software dev= elopment experience in a> web environment> > * Hands-on understanding of op= erating system,> development and web site technologies particularly Linux,= PHP, MySQL, XML,> HTML, CSS and Ajax.> * Ability to review and then link w= ith> external API's.> * Understanding of the security and> performance impl= ications associated with web> technologies.> * Good knowledge of infrastruc= ture architecture,> scalability and stress testing performance issues.> * A= self-starter, able to work without supervision,> driven to succeed.> * A g= ood understanding of web search products and> strategy; the difference betw= een search engines, search> aggregators, portals, crawlers. Good knowledge = of> search methods and taxonomies.> > > > ------------------------------> >= Message: 2> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:41:22 -0500 (CDT)> From: "phpWalter"= <php...@to...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP programmer open= ing> To: chi...@li...> Message-ID:> <33777.68.75= .184...@ma...>> Content-Type: text/plain;c= harset=3Diso-8859-1> > > > My company is hiring a second programmer. ... pa= y is $23-$33 ...> > no benefits.> > ( I assume an hour- if annual, this is = even worse)> > The the pay get lower, the benefits are gone, and the requir= ements keep> growing.> > The day will come when the developers join a union= to help stem this tide.> > $56k (median) a year. Not bad, but then, I hope= your married so you can> have insurance from your spouse. Or your living a= t home so you can spend> $5k for insurance. I hope you don't think you don'= t need insurance.> > I know my mortgage is half this offer. But let's not f= orget taxes. 30% off> the Top. $17k, that leaves only $39k.> > After my hou= se payment and taxes, that leaves $1,250 a month for> groceries, lights, ga= s, car insurance, etc.> > Wow! Offering someone with 3 year experience in t= he real word $1250 a month.> > And folks wonder why kids still live at home= .> > It's so sad. And you know what's even sadder? They'll find someone who= > will take this job. And chances are that person will not be all that> tal= ented, so> "management" distrusts developers even more, adds more restricti= ons and> requirements on the next guy, usually driving the cost even lower.= > > Can't tell you how many times I've been asked to "clean up" a project> = because "they" went cheap, and then told my they didn;t have the budget to>= do much because they blew it on the first guy.> > Remember you get what yo= u pay for. And conversely, you get (the job) they> pay you for.> > [OK, I'm= done b$^ching)> > Walter> > > > > > ------------------------------> > Mess= age: 3> Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:04:24 -0400> From: "Roderick Thomas" <tho= ma...@ms...>> Subject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] PHP Tek Conference> To: chi= php...@li...> Message-ID: <op.tsqslmilpz4ds5@x03917m= q3s91.dchw2k.mdch.state.mi.us>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed; = delsp=3Dyes;> charset=3Diso-8859-15> > I don't have a Linux system; I'm us= ing Windows. So I guess I'll try using > the pastebin.com suggestion.> > = > On Mon, 21 May 2007 15:01:09 -0400, Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...> wrote:>= > > Sounds like a plan, but post a link to your source using something> > = like http://phpfi.org or http://pastebin.com> >> > Another option is to hav= e a copy (or symlink in Linux) with .phps on> > the end, and turn on syntax= _highlighting in httpd.conf -- This lets> > you share the "live" code actua= lly being used direct from your> > website.> >> > Large chunks of code past= ed to a mailing list tend to get annoying> > quickly, if you know what I me= an.> >> > On Mon, May 21, 2007 8:08 am, Roderick Thomas wrote:> >> It was g= ood to see some familiar faces during the conference.> >> Although I> >> wa= sn't able to talk long, I tried to have a brief conversation with> >> the> = >> folks that I recognized.> >>> >> Jason...thanks for the rides from Evans= ton. They really made life> >> simple> >> for those days.> >>> >> I'm look= ing forward to the upcoming meetings and I'm definitely> >> planning> >> to= take advantage of the new "Beginner's Break" segment of the> >> meetings.>= >> I'm thinking that it may be helpful if I shared my code with the> >> gr= oup.> >> This way you guys could suggest readings for areas that need> >> i= mprovement. And these things could then serve as topics for> >> discussion= > >> during the "Beginner's Breaks."> >>> >> What are your thoughts?> >>> >= >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -----------------------------------------------------= --------------------> >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> >> = Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> >> contr= ol of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> >> http://sourc= eforge.net/powerbar/db2/> >> ______________________________________________= _> >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> >> chi...@li...urceforge.= net> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >>> = >> >> > > > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Tue, 22= May 2007 16:41:39 -0400> From: "Roderick Thomas" <tho...@ms...>> Subje= ct: [chiPHPug-discuss] Service Agency Profile: Review Process> To: "chiphpu= g-d...@li..."> <chi...@li...>= > Message-ID: <op....@x0...>> Con= tent-Type: text/plain; format=3Dflowed; delsp=3Dyes;> charset=3Diso-8859-1= 5> > I've posted my code with comments here:> > http://sap-review.pastebin.= com/912475> > Please review and make suggestions (readings, applications, s= tructure, > shortcuts, etc.) so that I can start preparing to take advanta= ge of the > "beginner's break" segment of the next meeting.> > Thanks for = your help.> > > > ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Tue, = 22 May 2007 16:26:34 -0500 (CDT)> From: "Richard Lynch" <ce...@l-...>> Su= bject: Re: [chiPHPug-discuss] Service Agency Profile: Review Process> To: "= Roderick Thomas" <tho...@ms...>> Cc: "chi...@li...urceforg= e.net"> <chi...@li...>> Message-ID: <60677.216.2= 30....@ww...>> Content-Type: text/plain;chars= et=3Diso-8859-1> > Pastebin keeps giving me an error about "recent write" a= nd some kind> of lock file...> > So I've posted a response here:> http://l-= i-e.com/roderick.phps> > On Tue, May 22, 2007 3:41 pm, Roderick Thomas wrot= e:> > I've posted my code with comments here:> >> > http://sap-review.paste= bin.com/912475> >> > Please review and make suggestions (readings, applicat= ions, structure,> > shortcuts, etc.) so that I can start preparing to take = advantage of> > the> > "beginner's break" segment of the next meeting.> >> = > Thanks for your help.> >> > ---------------------------------------------= ----------------------------> > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Expre= ss> > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take> > = control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now.> > http://s= ourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > ___________________________________________= ____> > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list> > chi...@li...urceforge= .net> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> >> >= > -- > Some people have a "gift" link here.> Know what I want?> I want you= to buy a CD from some indie artist.> http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch> = Yeah, I get a buck. So?> > > > > ------------------------------> > --------= -----------------------------------------------------------------> This SF.= net email is sponsored by DB2 Express> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE ve= rsion of DB2 express and take> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. C= lick to get it now.> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/> > --------------= ----------------> > _______________________________________________> chiPHP= ug-discuss mailing list> chi...@li...> https://li= sts.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss> > > End of chiPHPug-di= scuss Digest, Vol 13, Issue 9> ********************************************= *** _________________________________________________________________ Create the ultimate e-mail address book. Import your contacts to Windows Li= ve Hotmail. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/managemail2.html?locale=3Den-us&ocid= =3DTXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_impcont_0507= |
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From: Richard L. <ce...@l-...> - 2007-05-22 21:26:47
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Pastebin keeps giving me an error about "recent write" and some kind of lock file... So I've posted a response here: http://l-i-e.com/roderick.phps On Tue, May 22, 2007 3:41 pm, Roderick Thomas wrote: > I've posted my code with comments here: > > http://sap-review.pastebin.com/912475 > > Please review and make suggestions (readings, applications, structure, > shortcuts, etc.) so that I can start preparing to take advantage of > the > "beginner's break" segment of the next meeting. > > Thanks for your help. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express > Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take > control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. > http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ > _______________________________________________ > chiPHPug-discuss mailing list > chi...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss > -- Some people have a "gift" link here. Know what I want? I want you to buy a CD from some indie artist. http://cdbaby.com/browse/from/lynch Yeah, I get a buck. So? |
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From: Roderick T. <tho...@ms...> - 2007-05-22 20:41:43
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I've posted my code with comments here: http://sap-review.pastebin.com/912475 Please review and make suggestions (readings, applications, structure, shortcuts, etc.) so that I can start preparing to take advantage of the "beginner's break" segment of the next meeting. Thanks for your help. |
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From: Roderick T. <tho...@ms...> - 2007-05-22 19:04:29
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I don't have a Linux system; I'm using Windows. So I guess I'll try using the pastebin.com suggestion. On Mon, 21 May 2007 15:01:09 -0400, Richard Lynch <ce...@l-...> wrote: > Sounds like a plan, but post a link to your source using something > like http://phpfi.org or http://pastebin.com > > Another option is to have a copy (or symlink in Linux) with .phps on > the end, and turn on syntax_highlighting in httpd.conf -- This lets > you share the "live" code actually being used direct from your > website. > > Large chunks of code pasted to a mailing list tend to get annoying > quickly, if you know what I mean. > > On Mon, May 21, 2007 8:08 am, Roderick Thomas wrote: >> It was good to see some familiar faces during the conference. >> Although I >> wasn't able to talk long, I tried to have a brief conversation with >> the >> folks that I recognized. >> >> Jason...thanks for the rides from Evanston. They really made life >> simple >> for those days. >> >> I'm looking forward to the upcoming meetings and I'm definitely >> planning >> to take advantage of the new "Beginner's Break" segment of the >> meetings. >> I'm thinking that it may be helpful if I shared my code with the >> group. >> This way you guys could suggest readings for areas that need >> improvement. And these things could then serve as topics for >> discussion >> during the "Beginner's Breaks." >> >> What are your thoughts? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express >> Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take >> control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. >> http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ >> _______________________________________________ >> chiPHPug-discuss mailing list >> chi...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/chiphpug-discuss >> > > |
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