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[Pcgen-trackers] [ pcgen-Feature Requests-627939 ] Don't show unusable alignment spells for clerics
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From: SourceForge.net <no...@so...> - 2004-09-10 21:43:25
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Feature Requests item #627939, was opened at 2002-10-24 13:02 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by zaister You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384722&aid=627939&group_id=25576 Category: Spell Support Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Joan Siegenthaler (ashlynne12) Assigned to: Stefan Radermacher (zaister) Summary: Don't show unusable alignment spells for clerics Initial Comment: Moved from PCGen DM where it was New Source Material Request #626113 Ashlynne TM ---------------------------- Summary ---------------------------- Delete unusable alignment spells Delete unusable alignment spells It would be cool if cleric spells of opposite alignment didn't show up on the spell list. eg Desecrate wasn't listed for a Good cleric. From PCGEN where it was FREQ # 525462 joseFFF TM lemure ----------------------------- Comments ----------------------------- Date: 2002-10-23 19:33 Sender: karianna Logged In: YES user_id=252169 Ash, please move to PCGEN FREQs Karianna TM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2002-10-23 19:32 Sender: tir-gwaith Logged In: YES user_id=208239 This is a Code issue. A Wizard can cast spells of opposite alignment. It is a Class by Class issue. So adding a PREALIGN tag to the spell is not going to work (it will cause another bug) Tir Gwaith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2002-10-23 19:29 Sender: karianna Logged In: YES user_id=252169 Copying over comments that were missed K ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Date: 2002-10-21 04:51 Sender: mynex Logged In: YES user_id=270475 Karianna, move to DM - FReqs please. The spells are undergoing a revamp (to remove the class spells list file) and when it's done, we will be able to assign (show) the correct spells based on alignment (using the PREALIGN) tag in the spell itself. ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Date: 2002-06-11 09:34 Sender: karianna Logged In: YES user_id=252169 Hi Bryan! Sorry about the previous abrupt questioning. I've received your list of stuff you are currently working on (so now I know better ;p), so the question here is, do you still want this one assigned to you? Karianna Tracker Monkey ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Date: 2002-03-16 04:30 Sender: nobody Logged In: NO Two small probs with that fix. You'd also have to monitor Deity alignment (as well as cleric alignment), and exclude Opposing alignment spells (not non-matching). ie A Neutral cleric of Pelor can't cast Evil spells, but can cast L,C,&G. Oh yeah, a 3rd thing: Summon Monster IX is on all the alignment lists, so it would have to be left out when adding "PREALIGN" or whatever. ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Date: 2002-03-11 07:19 Sender: mynex Logged In: YES user_id=270475 Okay, this is similiar to splitting the spell lists by alignment (as was done once before)... Since this is an issue, we need a better way to determine this within PCGen itself instead of splitting the list files by alignment bulking them up. I would recommend adding code that would read the character alignment, then read the spells present in the spell list/domain list and if the PREALIGN (Would need to be added to the spells that require alignments - this part is list related) doesn't match, then the spell would not be listed as a viable choice for the character. ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Date: 2002-03-06 05:58 Sender: nobody Logged In: NO P32 PHB "C,E,G,L Spells A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or to his deity's." ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- Date: 2002-03-06 03:32 Sender: merton_monk Logged In: YES user_id=195874 It's a valid spell for them - just not a Domain spell. Or am I missing something? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Stefan Radermacher (zaister) Date: 2004-09-10 10:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=435051 I have no problem with the interpretation which spells are affected, I was just going by the word of the rules, but I can live with the restriction only affecting the actual cleric or druid spells and not any other spells the character might have. I think this is probably the most sensible interpretation, because the restriction seems to depend on the divine power just not granting certain spells, which should not have anything to do with arcane spells. It's also ok with me to add a house rule for enabling/disabling resticting cleric spells by alignment, BUT I don't think that should be disabled by default, because, after all, it IS a rule from the books/SRD. If, as Eric says, "many gamers use a less black and white definition of alignment", THAT is the house rule that should need to be explicitly activated, in my opinion. (Actually, I even think this tracker should be a bug, and not a freq, because it produces output that contradicts the rules as written. A good cleric just doesn't get Protection from Good or Desecrate on his spell list in D&D.) Regarding the tag nomenclature, i chose SPELLALIGN because it is short, but SPELLALIGNMENTRESTRICTION, or SPELLALIGNRESTRICT or something like that would be fine with me. Maybe the FORBIDDENSPELLS should be RESTRICTSPELLS then, so the tags are more similar? The "Yes" was just a typo on my part, but the engine checks just the "Y" anyway. Eric, what do you mean by "I'm putting re-opening the tracker."? BTW, if what I said above might come across a bit antagonistic, I have no intention of offending anyone, I'm just speaking my mind there. :-) Regards, Stefan. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Eric Beaudoin (ericbeaudoin) Date: 2004-09-10 02:36 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=324612 You rule interpretation is unfortunately just an interpretation until someone goes and ask the Sage about it. Furthermore, this has been open in PCGEN for so long and many gamers use a less black and white definition of alingment so we need to make a House Rules in the prefrerence dialog that will disable this if we implement it. Having a GAMEMODE varaible just won't cover it. SPELLALIGN is not really descriptive. It might be worth a discussion in the experimatal list to find a wording. I'd like to see something in the tag name that reminds us that some spell will not be usable because of opposite alingments and SPELLALIGN doesn't do that (there is no idea of forbidence or restriction). With the proper preference option to cover backward compatibility, I'm all for it. BTW, if the rules turns out that the restriction iapplies only to the class spells, the restriction could then be applied only to the spell list of that class. That seems doable since all the spells are listed by classes. It might be another option for the pref.: 1- no restriction, 2- restriction for the classe spell only, 3- restriction to all the character's spells. P.S. It should be SPELLALIGN:YES or SPELLALIGN:NO, hardcoded values are always supposed to be full capital in the .lst. This is usualy important only for the doc examples. I'm putting re-opening the tracker. Not in 5.8 scope unless we had it with the default of disable in the pref. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Stefan Radermacher (zaister) Date: 2004-09-09 16:00 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=435051 I have found a solution for this. First - one question on the rules before i get into details - the RSRD says "A cleric can't cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity's (if he has one)" - it says nothing about this rule only affecting his cleric spells, so I'm assuming if you're a good character, that once you are a cleric, this affects ALL your spells and you cannot even cast, for example, a wizard spell with an evil descriptor - although a good wizard (who is not also a cleric) could. If anyone has evidence to the contrary, please let me know. OK, my solution looks likes this. Since alignments aren't hard-coded, the relationship between alignments and descriptors must also be in the config files. I chose to add a tag to the ALIGNMENT lines of the gamemode file statsandchecks.lst, so an entry now looks like that: ALIGNMENTNAME:Lawful Good <tab> ABB:LG <tab> FORBIDDENSPELLS:Chaotic,Evil Furthermore I have defined a token called SPELLALIGN for class files, so clerics and druids need to get SPELLALIGN:Yes added to their CLASS lines. The mechanism I have devised counts the number of classes a character has that have these restrictions, and if that count is greater than zero, it prohibits the character taking a conflicting spell or having it assigned as an auto spell. BTW; this can also be used to impose the alignment restrictions on sanctified and corrupt spells from the Books of Exalted Deeds/Vile Darkness. The change would, of course, require all gamemodes to be adapted to work be affected. However, a non-adapted gamemode will continue to function as before. Any concerns or objections to this plan? Or any comments or ideas? I'd be happy to hear. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Felipe Diniz (fdiniz) Date: 2003-06-14 17:06 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=615168 657042 was closed. I think this can be done, now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Martijn Verburg (karianna) Date: 2003-02-05 02:24 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=252169 Sure can, the related freq is 657042 K TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Andrew McDougall (tir-gwaith) Date: 2003-01-29 10:57 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=208239 First wave could be done with PREALIGN, for those spells that are both Cleric and other classes, the proposed embedded [PRExxx] tag would be best here CLASSES:Cleric=5[PREALIGN:0,1,2,3,4] CLASSES:Druid=4 For the rest, we could use an enhanced PROHIBITED selection in either Deity.lst or classes.lst to limit spells. Karianna, can you cross reference this FReq with the one about embedding PRExxx tags to CLASSES? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Wayne Crawford (wcrawford69) Date: 2002-12-21 01:27 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=673274 Question, could something be added to the Deity file to exclude spells with certian descriptors? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384722&aid=627939&group_id=25576 |