Re: [Mingw-users] Trying to understand how to use MinGW/msys to configure and make a GNU package

[Peter J. F. I. <pjf...@ea...>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jared Maddox [mailto:abs...@gm...]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 12:06 AM
> To: min...@li...
> Subject: Re: [Mingw-users] Trying to understand how to use
> MinGW/msys to configure and make a GNU package
> 
> I'm making a bit of an assumption in this email, so please excuse me
> if I'm wrong.

Your assumptions were not wrong (more below).

> > Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 00:26:51 -0500
> > From: "Peter J. Farley III" <pjf...@ea...>
> > Subject: [Mingw-users] Trying to understand how to use
> MinGW/msys to
> > 	configure and make a GNU package
> > To: <min...@li...>
> > Message-ID: <003f01cee67a$48a95aa0$d9fc0fe0$@earthlink.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> >
<Snipped>
> 
> Just to check: did you also read the "What's the difference between
> make and mingw32-make?" and "How do I execute configure scripts?"
> questions from here: http://www.mingw.org/wiki/FAQ

Why did I miss that page entirely?  Sometimes I wonder about myself.
Thank you!

> > My goal is to be able to take a GNU project -- e.g. gawk 4.1 --
and
> > figure out how to run the configure step to create the Makefile(s)
> > and then use mingw32-make to build a MinGW executable, not an 
> > msys executable.
> 
> By MinGW executable, do you perhaps mean "an executable that does
> not require MSYS platform components"? I ask, because mingw32-make 
> is NOT required to do this, ordinary MSYS make should do perfectly
well 
> for MSWindows native applications.

Yes, that is what I mean.  And thanks for another misconception
cleared up.

> > I guess I am just not quite getting what GNU facilities are
available
> > for pure MinGW compiles.  Is it only what is contained in the
MinGW
> > include directory?  So, for instance, "stdarg.h" is not available
for
> > MinGW compiles, only for msys compiles, since "stdarg.h" lives
only
> > in msys include?
> 
> I'm currently using an old version (haven't had a need to update
yet),
> but as an example of what you shouldn't expect from the MinGW
> environment, but should expect from MSYS: the common *nix "ls"
> command. I've maybe used mingw32-make two or three times, so I
> can't claim to be speaking from experience, but I suspect that for 
> MinGW you would need to use the standard MSDOS/MSWindows 
> "dir" command.
> 
> There are, however, some facilities beyond this that MSYS does
> provide. I don't recall what they are, but they basically act as a
> POSIX partial-compatibility layer. Targeting these is roughly
> equivalent to making your program depend on Cygwin (though more
> minimalist), so for ordinary programs it isn't of interest. If it IS
> what you want to do, then these are relevant HOWTOs:
> (http://www.mingw.org/wiki/HOWTO_Create_an_MSYS_Build_Enviro
> nment), (http://www.mingw.org/wiki/HOWTO_Build_MSYS),
> (http://www.mingw.org/wiki/HOWTO_Build_an_MSYS_Application).

No, I wasn't looking to make executables dependent on MSYS facilities
or to run under MSYS, but thanks for the pointers.

> > I am obviously missing either multiple concepts or multiple setup
> > steps, so let me ask the basic questions:  Should I be able to run
a
> > GNU configure under msys bash and then use mingw32-make to
> > build a GNU project as a MinGW executable?  If so, is there 
> > anywhere you can point me to where I can learn *exactly* how to 
> > do this, step-by-step?
> >
> > I do understand that at least some (perhaps many?) POSIX
facilities
> > are intentionally not available in MinGW and never will be, which
> > would prevent at least some GNU projects from being build or
> > executed without some (perhaps a lot of) coding work to replace 
> > those facilities with Windows equivalents or other changes to the 
> > project. I am more than willing to try to do such work, but I need
to
> > understand how the process should work *if* all needed facilities
> > are in fact supported by MinGW.  And also how to determine what 
> > GNU facilities are supported and which are not.
> >
> > TIA for any and all information, advice and RTFM's you can
provide.
> 
> My suspicion is that you read the HOWTOs on how to build the MSYS
> environment itself, and got the mistaken impression that it was
> intended only to build programs that needed a POSIX-ish environment
> to run. If this is incorrect, please correct me.

Well, I do understand the difference between building the MSYS
environment itself and building programs that use the facilities
provided by that environment.  I wasn't sure if using the MSYS
environment to build programs precluded building programs that don't
use the MSYS dll's.

> The actual situation is that MinGW consists of the smallest
reasonable
> set of tools to compile for the Windows platform. MinGW's make will
> almost exclusively be used with the shell tools that natively ship
> with MSWindows, because MinGW doesn't include POSIX shell tools,
> due to not needing them to do it's job.

That is a helpful clarification.  I believe I understand much more
clearly now.

> Meanwhile, MSYS (including it's make) is used to compile programs
> that need a POSIX-ish environment to COMPILE. This environment is 
> largely not provided to the resulting programs be default, due to
the fact
> that it mostly consists of separate executables that you would need
to
> ship alongside your program.

That's also much clearer now that you state it plainly.  This is
precisely what I want to do.

> Programs that need a POSIX-ish environment to RUN need to either
> be compiled with the MSYS development code (which is used to develop
> programs that run on MSYS, instead of programs that merely compile
> on it), compiled for Cygwin + Xming (which is "heavier", but
apparently
> more complete in terms of POSIX; I think that it uses MinGW + MSYS
to
> bootstrap, but one of the real guys (Earnie, Eli, etc.) could tell
you
> better) or UWIN, or compiled for one of the full-enough
> POSIX-on-MSWindows implementations (e.g., Interix or any of the
> other "POSIX tool sets", + the MSWindows POSIX subsystem).

I have worked with Cygwin before while working on another open-source
project that used Cygwin to produce executables on Windows platforms,
so I do understand what they provide and what the costs are.  If I
wanted to use that environment (or one of the others you mention) I
would not be exploring MinGW as a build platform.

> In general, it's best to have a very clear idea of which of these
> categories that you really want. I would suggest the "compile on
> POSIX" category, and abandoning mingw32-make for this project, as
> it's likely to offer the best mix of compile-time features, and
run-time
> compatibility.

Thank you again for your clear and helpful answers.  Much appreciated.

Peter
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