Re: [Mingw-users] "cloning" MSVCRT.DLL...

[<AWL...@ao...>]

In a message dated 5/7/2003 5:45:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, cod...@ho... writes:
> > 1) msvcrt has dubious legal issues: i have not been able to
> > obtain a license for distributing microsoft runtimes without
> > purchasing a license for msvc (the platform sdk appears to
> > specifically bar redist of the crt code for some reason)
> 
> A quick search in Google shows:
> 
> http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/odbc/htm/odch18pr_13.asp
> 
> Since msvcrt.dll is redistributable as part of an ODBC application/driver,
> it should be possible for anyone to redistribute it. Or did you actually ask
> someone at Microsoft?

I have been searching for quite a while for some legal
document that gives me permission to redistribute msvcrt.
as near as i can tell, the only document that gives this
permission is the license that comes with msvc.  the psdk
specifically exempts crts from being redistributable.  i
would love, however, for someone to be able to show me
otherwise.

its my inclination that ms has engineered the situation to
prevent people from using their runtime with other compilers.
the psdk, however, largely assumes you are using msvc and
msvcrt.

in other words, a mingw user does not have the usual license
a msvc user does to redistribute msvc, even with other psdk
redist components (afaik)

however, it is possible maybe that someone who has purchased
msvc to use redist msvcrt with mingw apps, but i am not
really sure on this point.

> 
> >
> > this is a major problem affecting my ability to use mingw..
> > i can not redist programs i make with mingw to all win32
> > users with both compatibility and legality.
> 
> So the lack of support for Windows 95 "version 1" systems is a "major"
> problem?

well, yes.  i know a few people who still use the original
win95, for one.  the 'major' doesn't come from the smallness
of the people who use this OS version, but from the difficulty
of accomidating those who do.  if i distribute a program,
and choose not to support win95, i want it to be for a
better reason than for a silly legal crap thing.

> 
> >
> > 2) msvcrt is missing stuff needed for c++ and c99, and that
> > is difficult to sensibly extend
> > 3) the alternatives are not suitable.. newlib, for eg, is
> > not acceptable for a production pc c library (for eg, slow
> > soft math routines)
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why would anyone want soft math routines on a PC? Are
> you actually targetting ancient 386SX/486SX PCs? Maybe "soft math" means
> something other than "FPU emulation", but in an application where floating
> point performance actually matters, I have trouble grasping the logic here
> :-). But anyway, could you give some insight into why you 
> didn't just start
> with newlib and change the bits you didn't like?
> 

well, to clarify, it doesn't seem to me that newlib fully
takes advantage of the i386 hardware fp support.

newlib seems to me a library designed to make unix apps
run on embedded systems.  it is a 'libc' in the unix sense,
not in the 'standard c libray' sense.  it also is missing
some regions of functionality entirely, as well as any
c99 support.

i want a c library that is conformant to the c standards,
close enough that i can do conformance testing etc.  i do
not think newlib is a good starting point for this.  i
also do not want to have to list all of these 'based on a
work by john p. doe' in my Help>>About box as the newlib
license would have me do.  silly?  maybe :)

> >
> > i would love to share code or whatever with anyone
> > participating in similar projects, but i am largely
> > interested in public domain code.
> >
> > Aaron
> 
> Does your library have a website?

no.  i am not at that point yet.  i have implemented some
locales (including ctype), some stdio/wchar, string, and
time, and misc. obvious silliness, but there is much
to be done yet.  also, i have not implemented these
for all backends i would like (eg, i have only implemented
wctype for win32)


i will likely announce here when the library reaches the point
that i am satisfied with it, and i would anticipate this to
be within a few weeks to a month or two, depending.


Aaron