Re: [Audacity-devel] More fun today: Pop-up menus for the vertical ruler in waveform tracks
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From: Federico M. <fm...@fc...> - 2015-07-29 00:40:23
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Dear all, > STFT is wat I call the usual spectrogram that is not Pitch. Feel free > to propose other names. The point is that we implement more than one > algorithm for extracting spectral data from sound and the vertical > scale against which we plot the results ought to be independent. I think that when only Short-Time ourier Transform (STFT) is used to build the spectrogram, there is no need to make it explicit, but if new or different methods are implemented, it is fine that the actual algorithm is shown. However, I would call it just FFT since it is this the algorithm used to implement it. As a further comment, I don't feel at ease when the argument that a very small group of geeks will understand newer or advanced tools is put forward. If 20 years ago very few people knew what a spectrogram is (mainly people in the speech research field), today everybody uses it to rapidly locate features in an audio sample. Being bewildered by the unknown is the first step to becoming knowledgeable. Critical bands, ERB, pitch, etc, are used in psychoacoustics, which is evolving very fast as a tool in sound quality design. Why limit Audacity to music or audio production? If current features are kept, adding new ones will not make us lose users but gain new ones. I don't think small changes such as using right click to open a popup menu instead of zooming out will create such a cognitive disruption. People is used to even more drastic changes in office software, operating systems, appliances, cell phones... Regards, Federico > > On Tuesday, July 28, 2015, Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm... > <mailto:ste...@gm...>> wrote: > > On 28 July 2015 at 19:40, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm... > <mailto:pau...@gm...>> wrote: > >> Noted, one vote against. This can be easily reverted. I will do > so if that > >> is the preponderance of other opinions. > >> > >> Against this objection I would say that new users coming to > Audacity would > >> instead expect to use right click as the way to discover actions with > >> context menus, which is a widespread convention among other > programs, but > >> Audacity uses too few. I do something to remedy that and improve > Audacity's > >> ease of use for those with expectations shaped by other programs. > >> > >> Millions may use Audacity, but it does not follow that millions > regularly > >> use every feature, or even that the most experienced users do. > Speaking > >> only for myself, I tend to use left-drag and shift-right-click in the > >> rulers, and would not miss the right click for twofold zooming out. > >> > >> If we ever want the vertical ruler to switch between level or dB > labelling > >> independently of scale, or in spectrum views to give options like > labelling > >> by the musical note instead of frequency -- then this popup would > be a good > >> place to put that choice too so that it is easily discoverable. > >> > >> Steve has not objected yet to View Settings... , > > > > Some feedback from first look: > > > > No doubt, out of our millions of users, someone will find the new Mel, > > Bark and Erb settings useful. While the wiki feature request page may > > not be a brilliant indication of demand, it generally serves to give a > > rough idea. There are zero votes on the wiki for these new scales so > > I doubt that demand will be high. Consequently my view from a QA > > perspective is that I have no objection provided that it does not > > inconvenience or otherwise give a lesser user experience for other > > users. > > > > I very much doubt that many users will have the slightest idea what a > > "STFT algorithm" is, or the other option "enhanced autocorrelation". > > > > While I do like the much greater convenience for changing the > > spectrogram setting (compared with digging through the preferences), > > and that the effect can be viewed without closing the interface, I > > expect that many users will find the many settings and technical > > terminology quite bewildering. > > > > A small bug that I noticed is that (on Linux), when the logarithmic > > scale is applied to the spectrogram view, the numbers overflow the > > width of the ruler. The ruler resizes after pressing the OK button. > > (see attached screenshot) > > > > Also, (and this is not new), but why have frequencies as kHz (marked > > "k") for linear scale and Hz (no units) for logarithmic scale? > > > > It is a bit strange that several settings are not editable with the > > "Pitch (enhanced autocorrelation)" view, though 'not' greyed out. Are > > you intending to make these editable eventually? > > > > The label "Pitch (enhanced autocorrelation)" is much larger than the > > text box (on Linux), so when selected it shows "Pitch (enhanced > > autocorre" > > > > I can see what you are doing with the "Defaults" checkbox, and I > > think that idea works well, but it is a bit misleading that it is not > > the actual Audacity defaults, but rather it is the user's preference > > settings. A label change could help here. > > > > Minimum and maximum frequencies do not do what they say if out of > > range. For example, in a 44100 Hz sample rate track, the user could > > select 0 Hz to 44100 Hz but (of course) the actual range is limited > > to half the sample rate. > > > > General impression: I certainly like that the spectrogram settings are > > easier to get at, but grouping basic and commonly used setting in with > > obscure technical jargon will be baffling for a large proportion of > > our user base. > > > > Steve > > > > > >> the more varied spectrum > >> scales, and the improvements to Pitch view. That project was > inseparable > >> from reducing the view types in the menu down to three or even as > now two -- > >> the alternative was unreasonable lengthening of the menu. The > switching > >> between spectrogram and waveform will still be easy with two > keystrokes but > >> I made it more difficult to switch between what we used to call > waveform and > >> "waveform dB" or between what we once called spectrogram and > "spectrogram > >> log F". You need to open Preferences or View Settings... for that. > >> > >> By making the right mouse popup menu, I make it easier again, to switch > >> among the different view scales of the two main view types. > >> > >> PRL > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Steve the Fiddle > <ste...@gm... <mailto:ste...@gm...>> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> On 28 July 2015 at 14:45, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm... > <mailto:pau...@gm...>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > https://github.com/audacity/audacity/commit/b7f1cf99d6bc3c5777f812cc83bfd509fd0a3e2e > >>> > > >>> > As promised: right click on the vertical ruler of a waveform > track used > >>> > to > >>> > be zoom-in, but was redundant with shift-left-click, so I > repurposed it > >>> > to > >>> > pop up a menu. > >>> > >>> "Left click zoom in, right click zoom out" has been a familiar and > >>> frequently used control for millions of Audacity users for many years, > >>> I don't agree that it was "redundant". What was previously a > >>> convenient one click action has become a menu selection or a two > >>> handed action. > >>> > >>> Steve > >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > The menu allows switching among the vertical scale types > appropriate to > >>> > Waveform or Spectrum. > >>> > > >>> > In either view type there is also a separator and then menu > items for > >>> > zoom > >>> > in, zoom out, and zoom to fit, which replicate the left click/drag, > >>> > shift-left click, and shift-right click actions. The menu gives > a place > >>> > to > >>> > describe those mouse shortcuts and make them discoverable, just > as we do > >>> > for > >>> > keystroke shortcuts in other menus. > >>> > > >>> > In future this menu might also switch among track label types, as > >>> > disctinct > >>> > from the vertical scale type, for instance between level and dB > labels. > >>> > > >>> > PRL > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > audacity-devel mailing list > >>> > aud...@li... > <mailto:aud...@li...> > >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> audacity-devel mailing list > >>> aud...@li... > <mailto:aud...@li...> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> audacity-devel mailing list > >> aud...@li... > <mailto:aud...@li...> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > audacity-devel mailing list > aud...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-devel |