Re: [Audacity-quality] Beat Finder (was Re: bugs in 'Click Removal')
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From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2013-12-18 19:49:03
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Thanks. Good summary. - V On 12/17/2013 5:23 PM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > On 17 December 2013 23:57, Vaughan Johnson <va...@au...> wrote: >> >> >> On 12/17/2013 11:59 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>> On 17 December 2013 19:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>>> >>>> | From Vaughan Johnson <va...@au...> >>>> | Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:38:51 -0800 >>>> | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Beat Finder (was Re: bugs in 'Click Removal') >>>>> On 12/15/2013 12:03 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> It does not always do nothing. It is flawed but less so than for >>>>>> example Beat Finder. If you were arguing to remove Beat Finder >>>>>> I would agree with you because I expect it is little used anyway >>>>>> and Audacity doesn't really claim any support for beats and bars. >>>>> >>>>> Please start another (sub)thread when you veer off. This is a different >>>>> discussion, and I'm fine with removing Beat Finder if it's a loser. >>>> >>>> So the choice is to "remove or improve". >>>> >>>> I think Steve has done some promising work that could present the >>>> detected BPM to the user and label the detected beats somewhat >>>> more accurately than the current BeatFinder: >>>> http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=150303#p150303 . >>>> >>>> Obviously beat detection is hard and people could use e.g. VAMP >>>> plug-ins instead to attempt it. >>>> >>>> Can we plan to go anywhere with Steve's work? I'm fine with >>>> removing Beat Finder if there is no improvement plan. >>> >>> >>> +1 for improving Beat Finder, (and Sound/Silence Finder, and >>> Compressor, and Noise Removal/Reduction, and Click Removal, and >>> Vocoder, and replace Leveler with a useful distortion effect). I don't >>> think we need to go mad about these, just ensure that there is >>> continuing improvement. >> >> Is that a commitment? If not, then we have no 'improvement plan', just >> agreement that they need improvement. > > I've made good progress improving Sound/Silence Finder. This is > currently on hold as the necessary tweaking is a pain to do without > the Nyquist Workbench. > > Robert J. H. on the forum has made some dramatic improvements to > "Vocal Remover", though the GUI for his new effect is rather too > complicated for a bundled effect. He is blind, so GUI design holds > little interest for him, but I would hope that at least some parts of > his new effect can be incorporated into a replacement for the current > Vocal Remover effect. > > I've just posted a bug fix for the incorrect term "decay" in the > Compressor effect - only a minor detail but something that has bugged > me since it first appeared. I think there is a lot of scope for > improving the Compressor effect, but quite a big job to tackle all at > once. > > There are already quite a few distortion effects as Nyquist plug-ins, > but Nyquist plug-ins do not yet have "Preview" so I think we would > need a built in effect to replace Leveler. It is often hard to > "visualize" what the effect of a wave-shaper will sound like which > make "Preview" all the more important. > > There is a patch on the wiki for a "noise coring" effect that showed > quite a lot of promise as an "automatic" hiss reduction effect. It > could perhaps be incorporated as a checkbox within the current Noise > Removal effect, or developed as a separate, easy to use "Hiss > Reduction" effect. > > Edgar-rft wrote a simplified Vocoder effect that was being considered > at one time - it's somewhere in the long grass but could be found if > there is interest. > >> Remove Beat Finder in the meantime? Is it that weak? > > It works well when applied to a drum track. > Virtually perfect with synthetic tests such as marking the beats of a > click track. > Less well for complex music. > Useless for music that does not have a strong beat. > > Currently it only looks for low frequency impulses, which works for > picking out the kick drum in a drum track but is prone to being lost > in a full mix. A relatively simple change of providing an adjustable > filter rather than the current fixed filter can produce significant > improvement with some audio tracks. > > One of the main difficulties for improving this type of effect is the > large amount of testing with a variety of source material that is > required. > > The (open source) program Mixxx seems to have beat detection nailed. I > think they use the vamp beat tracker plug-in. > > Steve > >> >> - V >> >> >>> >>> Perhaps bugzilla should have an additional "Importance" flag in >>> addition to the "P" ratings - an "E" for "embarrassing". >>> >>> It's not really helping that my favourite tool for Nyquist Plug-in >>> development (Nyquist Work Bench) has not worked since r12959. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Gale > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT > organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance > affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your > Java,.NET, & PHP application. 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