Re: [Audacity-quality] Beat Finder (was Re: bugs in 'Click Removal')
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From: Steve t. F. <ste...@gm...> - 2013-12-18 01:23:18
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On 17 December 2013 23:57, Vaughan Johnson <va...@au...> wrote: > > > On 12/17/2013 11:59 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >> On 17 December 2013 19:05, Gale Andrews <ga...@au...> wrote: >>> >>> | From Vaughan Johnson <va...@au...> >>> | Mon, 16 Dec 2013 19:38:51 -0800 >>> | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Beat Finder (was Re: bugs in 'Click Removal') >>>> On 12/15/2013 12:03 PM, Gale Andrews wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> It does not always do nothing. It is flawed but less so than for >>>>> example Beat Finder. If you were arguing to remove Beat Finder >>>>> I would agree with you because I expect it is little used anyway >>>>> and Audacity doesn't really claim any support for beats and bars. >>>> >>>> Please start another (sub)thread when you veer off. This is a different >>>> discussion, and I'm fine with removing Beat Finder if it's a loser. >>> >>> So the choice is to "remove or improve". >>> >>> I think Steve has done some promising work that could present the >>> detected BPM to the user and label the detected beats somewhat >>> more accurately than the current BeatFinder: >>> http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=150303#p150303 . >>> >>> Obviously beat detection is hard and people could use e.g. VAMP >>> plug-ins instead to attempt it. >>> >>> Can we plan to go anywhere with Steve's work? I'm fine with >>> removing Beat Finder if there is no improvement plan. >> >> >> +1 for improving Beat Finder, (and Sound/Silence Finder, and >> Compressor, and Noise Removal/Reduction, and Click Removal, and >> Vocoder, and replace Leveler with a useful distortion effect). I don't >> think we need to go mad about these, just ensure that there is >> continuing improvement. > > Is that a commitment? If not, then we have no 'improvement plan', just > agreement that they need improvement. I've made good progress improving Sound/Silence Finder. This is currently on hold as the necessary tweaking is a pain to do without the Nyquist Workbench. Robert J. H. on the forum has made some dramatic improvements to "Vocal Remover", though the GUI for his new effect is rather too complicated for a bundled effect. He is blind, so GUI design holds little interest for him, but I would hope that at least some parts of his new effect can be incorporated into a replacement for the current Vocal Remover effect. I've just posted a bug fix for the incorrect term "decay" in the Compressor effect - only a minor detail but something that has bugged me since it first appeared. I think there is a lot of scope for improving the Compressor effect, but quite a big job to tackle all at once. There are already quite a few distortion effects as Nyquist plug-ins, but Nyquist plug-ins do not yet have "Preview" so I think we would need a built in effect to replace Leveler. It is often hard to "visualize" what the effect of a wave-shaper will sound like which make "Preview" all the more important. There is a patch on the wiki for a "noise coring" effect that showed quite a lot of promise as an "automatic" hiss reduction effect. It could perhaps be incorporated as a checkbox within the current Noise Removal effect, or developed as a separate, easy to use "Hiss Reduction" effect. Edgar-rft wrote a simplified Vocoder effect that was being considered at one time - it's somewhere in the long grass but could be found if there is interest. > Remove Beat Finder in the meantime? Is it that weak? It works well when applied to a drum track. Virtually perfect with synthetic tests such as marking the beats of a click track. Less well for complex music. Useless for music that does not have a strong beat. Currently it only looks for low frequency impulses, which works for picking out the kick drum in a drum track but is prone to being lost in a full mix. A relatively simple change of providing an adjustable filter rather than the current fixed filter can produce significant improvement with some audio tracks. One of the main difficulties for improving this type of effect is the large amount of testing with a variety of source material that is required. The (open source) program Mixxx seems to have beat detection nailed. I think they use the vamp beat tracker plug-in. Steve > > - V > > >> >> Perhaps bugzilla should have an additional "Importance" flag in >> addition to the "P" ratings - an "E" for "embarrassing". >> >> It's not really helping that my favourite tool for Nyquist Plug-in >> development (Nyquist Work Bench) has not worked since r12959. >> >> Steve >> >>> >>> >>> >>> Gale |