Re: [Audacity-quality] Play/Stop and Set Cursor button
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From: James C. <cr...@in...> - 2013-12-12 12:49:45
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Thanks Steve. Concrete use cases make it clearer. The apparent value of 'Pause' is in - Monitoring - Short cut keys Your use case is still OK too. It does not use the pause button in the user interface except as visual feedback, so I think we still don't need the separate pause button. Can I suggest that your sequence becomes: Press "P" (monitoring starts) Adjust the gain on the pre-amp. Press "R" Record the perfect take. Press Spacebar. Analogous to saving a click on the button, this saves one keystroke. It's pure gain. Nothing lost :-) Well, yes, the visual feedback element... there is no pause button to show we are monitoring but not recording. We will see levels on the meters so there is that feedback that we are monitoring. No buttons are down, and the record/play cursor will be stationary, so there is enough visual feedback that we are not recording yet. So I believe there is enough visual feedback. In effect 'Pause' or rather the 'P' enables monitoring on a temporary basis, whereas 'monitoring' in the recording meter turns it on until we turn it off. So even after my proposed change they are not quite the same thing and there is merit in keeping the 'P' shortcut. If we remove the 'Pause' button as a button, and also remove it from the transport menu, though I am not saying we should remove it from the transport menu, we probably should add 'Tem&Porary Monitor' 'P', to the recording meter's drop down in the meter toolbar. So, am I missing something, or is there another use case to consider? --James. On 12/12/2013 04:57, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > On 12 December 2013 04:14, Vaughan Johnson <va...@au...> wrote: >> On 12/11/2013 4:16 PM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 11 December 2013 23:48, James Crook <cr...@in... >>> <mailto:cr...@in...>> wrote: >>> >>> On 11/12/2013 23:33, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11 December 2013 20:39, James Crook <cr...@in... >>>> <mailto:cr...@in...>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On acreage... >>>> >>>> I think experience shows the pause button is actually >>>> confusing, and we could lose it. >>>> >>>> For example the play button could change to a pause button >>>> when playing. >>>> Then 'pause' does what Steve suggests, it stops, with the >>>> cursor where it was, and >>>> 'stop' does as now, sending the cursor back. >>>> The record button could do much the same thing. >> +1. >> >> >>>> One less button. Better functionality. All (?) we lose is >>>> the ability to restart play quickly >>>> with one click, rather than with two. >> I've been thinking a lot lately about simplifying Audacity interface, >> rather than complicating it. I think we need to fight against increasing >> complexity, and reduce some of the current complexity. Hick's Law, KISS. >> >> I know all of team@ are very intelligent, and comfortable with, some >> even prefer, complexity, but increasing complexity does not server our >> users well. >> >> On feedback@ recently, we've gotten a few very obscene messages about >> how difficult Audacity is to use -- from apparently computer-ignorant >> users. They would be helped a lot by simplification. >> >> >> For one example, I don't think Transcription Toolbar has wide enough >> usage that it should be on by default. >> >> >>>> >>>> That sounds potentially great, but don't we also lose being able >>>> to press "Pause then Record"? >>> We don't need that - when you can just click 'record'. We don't >>> have a tape head that needs to be moved next to the tape. >>> Or is there something else that we want that 'real pause' does for us? >>> >>> >>> Press "P" >>> Press "R" >>> Adjust the gain on the pre-amp. >>> Press "P" >>> Record the perfect take. >>> Press Spacebar. >>> Done, with no need to grab for a mouse or tab through to different >>> toolbars or undo a test recording. >> Cool. But very much a master-user trick. The simplification of the >> interface for bigger % of users wins out -- "the good for the many over >> the effort of a few". >> >> And those master users still wouldn't need to grab a mouse: Add a step >> before the steps you described, with input muted, Press "R". Then do the >> "Press P" milliseconds later, unmute the input, then the rest. Very >> slightly more work. > I'm not sure that I understand your suggestion Vaughan. > If I press Record and then Pause as you suggest, and e have James' > proposed new pause action, will the recording meter be active? Am I > able to set the gain on the pre-amp or has playback "stopped and set > cursor"? > > I'm all in favour of simplifying, but not at the expense of making > common tasks laborious as that will lose favour not only with > "advanced" users but with everyone that uses Audacity on more than an > occasional basis. > > Steve > > >> - V >> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> --James. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> --James. >>>> >>>> PS: To short circuit arguments about the colour, I say the >>>> 'pause' button should remain >>>> blue. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/12/2013 02:11, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11 December 2013 01:46, Vaughan Johnson >>>>> <va...@au... <mailto:va...@au...>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> | From Steve the Fiddle <ste...@gm... >>>>>> <mailto:ste...@gm...>> >>>>>> | Mon, 2 Dec 2013 16:07:04 +0000 >>>>>> | Subject: [Audacity-quality] Play/Stop and Set Cursor >>>>>> button >>>>>> > Just a suggestion: >>>>> It's fundamental in GUI design that you don't put an >>>>> image of a cursor on a control, because then it can >>>>> appear you have two cursors. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It's a big blue cursor that is stuck on a button and does not >>>>> move, but it could be made a lot more abstract. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And are you talking about putting an extra button on the >>>>> transport bar? That's a lot of precious acreage. Maybe >>>>> this comes from an off-list I don't know about. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes it is a lot of precious acreage, but for many users it >>>>> would be one of the most used buttons. >>>>> In addition, we get a huge number of support requests asking >>>>> how to stop playback and leave the cursor at the play position. >>>>> >>>>> An option for half size buttons (1/4 area) would more than >>>>> compensate for the increase. >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - V >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Steve. >>>>>> Summary: I am strongly in favour of a button given so >>>>>> many users try >>>>>> to press Pause and then edit. A button would help close >>>>>> bug 412: >>>>>> http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=412 >>>>>> <http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=412#c0> . >>>>>> ATM my thought is to have a yellow coloured button that >>>>>> is only active >>>>>> when there is playback. >>>>>> Detail: >>>>>> Should the button colour be blue, or yellow when it can >>>>>> be used to >>>>>> stop and green when it can be used to start? I think on >>>>>> balance it >>>>>> should be yellow when used to stop, notwithstanding that >>>>>> blue might >>>>>> look like a second Pause button. I could be persuaded >>>>>> otherwise. >>>>>> SHIFT + A operates the Play button the same as SPACE >>>>>> does. So >>>>>> this raises the question if this button should only >>>>>> do Stop and Set >>>>>> Cursor. So should it when playback is stopped have a >>>>>> greyed out >>>>>> version of the icon it has when there is playback or >>>>>> paused playback? >>>>>> What icon(s) should be on the button? That partly >>>>>> depends on the >>>>>> answers to the above. I think the major issue is people >>>>>> realising >>>>>> the button "stops and sets cursor", so a Play symbol is >>>>>> not helpful. >>>>>> I'm not sure about the I-beam cursor either. >>>>>> Here's my rough idea of what we could have as the second >>>>>> icon on the >>>>>> button to indicate the "set cursor": >>>>>> Perhaps the triangle should be green to mimic the >>>>>> playback triangle >>>>>> (though SHIFT + A could also stop a recording) - or it >>>>>> could be blue if >>>>>> we decide on blue. Or perhaps something like my image >>>>>> should be >>>>>> enlarged to be the whole button? >>>>>> Gale >>>>>> >>>>> |