Re: [Audacity-devel] what's essential (was LAME Installer for Windows)
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From: Vaughan J. <va...@au...> - 2007-10-21 20:33:24
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Sounds good. - V David R. Sky wrote: > Hi Vaughan, > > That's one idea. I'd consider most of what I've submitted so far (which > Richard has committed) as pretty well complete, with simply tiny text > modifications for such things as the error messages. > > Apart from that, the sequencer is going to take some extensive > error-handling to fix it up. And I've been working slowly on a > flanger/chorus with several presets. So these ones are/will be a lot of > work to polish to my satisfaction, and they probably won't be completely > ready for a full release of Audacity. (Note I'm assuming here - Gale > mentioned some months back the present unavailability of a flanger in > Audacity.) > > David > > On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Vaughan Johnson wrote: > > >> Thanks, David. Right on. >> >> If the Nyquist plug-ins become sufficiently numerous, we could consider >> putting them in a separate installer, so they could be on a separate >> release cycle, allowing you some independence from the Audacity app >> releases. >> >> - Vaughan >> >> >> David R. Sky wrote: >> >>> Hi Vaughan and others, >>> >>> personally I don't see a "good enough" reason to force a release at a >>> certain date. To me what's more important - "pushing" to get Audacity >>> released on a certain date, or releasing a clean smoothly-working version >>> of Audacity? I would definitely feel more satisfied in me the more cleanly >>> it's working. And for me in particular, getting the nyquist plug-ins >>> working well and in the most user-friendly way I and Gale and anyone else >>> can. >>> >>> I've also been getting some new projects in my life such as a day-long >>> conference at the provincial legislature here in British Columbia which I >>> need to prepare for. >>> >>> I can't and don't necessarily speak for other developers here - that's my >>> view. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> David >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007, Vaughan Johnson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Thanks for the update, James. It's good to have guidelines. >>>> >>>> Maybe I'm thin-skinned, but I'm a bit disturbed at the tone of some of >>>> our recent discussions. For instance, I don't think anybody "abandoned" >>>> or "aborted" the schedule. My understanding is that we agreed (at least >>>> tacitly) that the Cancel, keyboard interaction, and other bugs warranted >>>> fixing in 1.3.4, and they previously weren't even on the checklist. Some >>>> of the added changes have certainly not been essential, but were >>>> requested repeatedly, even after the target slipped. Given that the >>>> timetable was set from a certain state of the checklist, it's hard to >>>> expect that adding new tasks would not break the planned timetable. >>>> >>>> Maybe we should have discussed the delay explicitly, but I think we were >>>> just working to get the bugs fixed, and anybody could have raised the >>>> delay issue. We're all unhappy with any delay toward 1.4.0, but that >>>> bigger goal of 1.4.0 really requires the essential fixes, including >>>> newly-discovered ones. >>>> >>>> I think it's worth pointing out that lots of open source projects >>>> release more often and with more known bugs. But in this group, we've >>>> been less willing to do that. Especially in a beta line, though, I think >>>> it makes sense. I don't think we've ever had so much discussion about >>>> when a release will be ready. My impression is that nobody in the group >>>> wants to consider a 1.3.5, but especially given that 1.3.4 will be >>>> out-of-sync across platforms, I don't think it's a bad idea, and we'd >>>> get lots more feedback in the meantime. Perhaps there are other >>>> essential bugs we don't actually know about yet. >>>> >>>> But my bigger point is, we're working cooperatively, voluntarily, and in >>>> our spare time, so let's be encouraging to each other. >>>> >>>> ...And discuss a revised timetable. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regarding the mic & speaker icons bug I mentioned, I: >>>> >>>> * Built with experimental theme prefs turned on & clicked the >>>> Default button on the Theme tab. >>>> * Got rid of all my Audacity Application Data. >>>> * Deleted all Audacity entries in Registry. >>>> >>>> ...and I still have the problem. But if nobody else does? >>>> >>>> I looked at the code again. The initialization code is similar to the >>>> Meters' icons, which show correctly, but the Device and Mixer toolbars >>>> are drawn very differently from Meters. I tried using Image in >>>> initialization instead of Bitmap (per James's comment in the Meter >>>> code), but it didn't help. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Vaughan >>>> >>>> >>>> James Crook wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> For background, this came out of a discussion with Gale as to what >>>>> should count as an essential and what shouldn't. I came up with a list >>>>> of guidelines ranging from: >>>>> >>>>> * A reproducible crash is always an essential fix. >>>>> >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> * Some user issues that are 'cheaper' to fix than to use-as-is are >>>>> candidates for being essentials. They need discussing on audacity-devel. >>>>> Generally such issues are aim tos. >>>>> >>>>> More guidelines at: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Release_Checklist >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The 'economic' argument is that if we're freeing up fifty hours of >>>>> support work over the lifespan of the 1.4 release, it's worth putting in >>>>> three hours of development effort to do so now. From what Gale has said >>>>> it sounds like this could be the case with (windows) Lame installation >>>>> which has been costing considerably more time. >>>>> >>>>> Is it necessary to hold up the 1.3.4 release for this? The in-house >>>>> trial, no, but the actual release probably yes. To be sure that Lame >>>>> installation is actually easier, we probably need to test/develop it >>>>> with 1.3.4, i.e. it may involve small changes in 1.3.4 too. It's up for >>>>> discussion, and we also need to discuss exactly what an installer would >>>>> need to do to be worthwhile. >>>>> >>>>> --James >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gale Andrews wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> James and I believe there is a strong case in saved support time for building >>>>>> an executable installer for LAME for Windows users, to be available for 1.4.0. >>>>>> Leland was keen to have this as well. I have known up to five hours a week >>>>>> go on helping Windows users with this issue on the erstwhile -help list, even >>>>>> when they are pointed to an unzipped copy of the .dll to save them one part >>>>>> of the problem. I assume (with Buanzo's agreement, which is essential) we >>>>>> would host this on: >>>>>> http://lame.buanzo.com.ar/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Any views on this, or ideas as to the likely size of the installer for hosting >>>>>> considerations? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gale >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>>>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? 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