[xine-devel] Re: xine-ui fork proposal

[Daniel Caujolle-B. <seg...@cl...>]

Hi Guenter,

Guenter Bartsch wrote:
> Hallo Daniel, hi list,
> 
> what still puzzles me why everyone here and in other project seems so
> afraid of forking. i don't think it's a big deal and i think it has many
> benefits:
> 
> benefit for the users: freedom to choose.
> 
> benefit for the project: hopefully less talking and more coding

	Talking is important, much more as you seems think. This made 
choice/direction clear.

> 
>   also, having two or more branches doesn't mean that code cannot be
>   merged from one branch into the other - again without much discussion
>   as the gpl allows this right away - one of the big strengths of that
>   license. especially with ui design its often necessary to implement
>   things to see how they work out and if they're really useable.

	Have we talked about licence issue ?? No, just devels behavior/relations.	

> daniel and i obviously have different ideas of the future of xine-ui and i
> think xine-ui is in a good shape for both of us to be used as a starting
> point to implement our different ideas.
> 
> daniel, i still don't know if you want to continue to work on xine-ui. if
> you want to continue to work on xine-ui, please tell me about that before
> the weekend. I'll keep out of that module then and of course you're free
> to revert any changes i made.

	I never do that kind of thing, and i will never.

[snip the countdown ]
 >
> let us put an end to this unproductive discussion. i think we both need
> more freedom here and i think forking xine-ui will provide it to us both.
> 

	If i want to be _free_ (i'm not feeling in jail, anyway), i can start 
another UI, that's not a problem, and not my main goal right now. So 
freedom is pointless here.
> 
>>	so, you want xine mimics sinek ? weird !
> 
> 
> you're right, the gnome-xine project often makes you think it had the same
> objectives as sinek. but it has not. in fact, i think sinek and gnome-xine
> will be very different frontends. while i get the impression that xine-ui
> is that sinek at least to some extend tries to look like, my goal for
> gnome-xine is to build something like ms media player or the quicktime
> player - with less emphasis on dvd/full moview playback but more emphasis
> on playing various formats, mostly in the form of files and network
> streams.

	Okay, i already undertund that. BTW, why did you call xine-ui a dvd 
player, i don't think that, it's not dvd playback only oriented.

 >
>>	You know, you can also get the widget code from the 0.2.3, of
>>course, i was more lightweight than the current.
> 
> 
> yes, again i completely agree with your idea here. in fact i actually
> intend to take a few steps back with some parts of xine-ui and try to pull
> it in a different direction. simplify the code, trim it to what i think is
> necessary and usefull while making it more stable, lightweight and
> performant. another important objective of mine is trying to get closer to
> common standards, e.g. widget style and behaviour of windgets and dialog
> windows.

	So, the big question: why you (and as i read TODAY (xitk looks very bad, 
in many ways), and all of guys who talks about how xitk /sucks/) never 
told any word about before today (shit, i started xitk for more than a 
year now!). Why you let me implemented many feature that you (not only 
you Guenter) seems hates ?! Since recently, we all used the same UI, no 
? Imagin my surprise now, you let me spent thousands of hours coding in 
the /wrong/ direction !?.

	We even shaked our hands two weeks ago, but you never told me such things 
(just you din't like the mrl browser, because label was centered...wow).

> 
> first i thought i could do this in the main xine-ui branch - by making
> some compromises, trying not to break any features but pushing it into
> that direction, but well, i was wrong - our ideas are obviously far too
> different, i wish i had realized this earlier. now the only thing i can do
> is offer you to implement my ideas in a different xine-ui branch and
> revert my changes in xine-ui. and of course i promise i will not touch
> xine-ui again.

	No, i don't want that, it's stupid. That divide ressources by 2 (even 
more, in fact xine-lib will suffuring).

>>	So, now, without kidding, do you think there is not fair solution ??
>>Really ? (i say fair for all of us, you me and the rest of devels / users) ?
> 
> 
> i truly believe that there are a lot of solutions here. i've offered my
> favourite solution, but of course i'm open to your proposals as well.
> 
> i hope we agree at least on one goal: no matter what solution we find, we
> need to make sure it will settle this discussion, once and for all. and it
> allows us to get back to coding while providing us the freedom we need to
> implement our ideas.

	You know, i think i'm quite open too, the thing i can't accept (and i'm 
sure you feel the same) is (in bad english, sorry) in front of the 
accomplished fact. i prefered have a discussion with you, even 
privately, no matter, and i think this whole stupid email war wasn't 
happened, don't you think too ?

Cheers.

PS: BTW, i think a 0.9.10 should happen before any xine-ui/xitk 
breakage, which can be long to stabilize (0.9.9 have too many problems).
-- 
73's de Daniel, F1RMB.

               -=- Daniel Caujolle-Bert -=- seg...@cl... -=-
                         -=- f1...@f1... (AMPR NET) -=-