visualpython-users

Re: [Visualpython-users] Idle Error for Vpython for Python23

[Bruce S. <bas...@un...>]

I don't understand. There is no visual\idle_vpython\idle.pyw anymore. 
Now that Python 2.3 contains an IDLE with the features of the old 
idle_vpython, the VPython installer no longer installs idle_vpython, and 
the shortcut correctly points instead to this:

    C:\Python23\pythonw.exe C:\Python23\Lib\idlelib\idle.pyw

The shortcut you suggest should take you nowhere. ??

Bruce Sherwood

David Porter wrote:

> Guys
> 	There is a minor error in the idle Windows install. The short cut on the desktop points to the wrong location for idle. The short cut target property has to be changed to:
> "c:\python23\pythonw.exe c:\python23\lib\site-packages\visual\idle_vpython\idle.pyw"
> 	Regards
> 	DRP
> 
> 
> 
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[Visualpython-users] Idle Error for Vpython for Python23

[David P. <dp...@dr...>]

Guys
	There is a minor error in the idle Windows install. The short cut on the desktop points to the wrong location for idle. The short cut target property has to be changed to:
"c:\python23\pythonw.exe c:\python23\lib\site-packages\visual\idle_vpython\idle.pyw"
	Regards
	DRP

Re: [Visualpython-users] re: Close, but no cigar

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

Bruce,

a theorectical:

I am a student at another University. And no computer guru myself. But I am
also in a class working with Python, to study scientific and computational
issues.

[Not so theoretical, really. There are many such programs, using a variety
of add-on modules with Python].

I follow instructions at the beginning of the semester, and have everything
running I am supposed to have running.  Wasn't very hard.

Later on, for an independent project, I want to explore doing some
visualization.  VPython is a good starting point, I hear.  Its for mortals.
When its comes to computers, I am very much so.  Download it, and its up and
running easily.  Nice.  But it turns out its not quite what I need. Its too
hard for me, in fact to understand on my own.

Better try something easier.

Let's keep things in good order.

ControlPanel -> Add and Remove Programs -> VPython -> confirm remove.

Back to where I was.

Yikes.

Nothing's running.

Nothing I did this semester works anymore.  My programs can't find something
or other.

Depending on the user, and the error messages he is getting, he may or may
not be able to diagnose the fact that for some crazy reason, installing and
uninstalling VPython has blown away his pre-existing Numeric installation.
Which *his* professor had him download 2 1/2 month ago.  And which as far as
he knew, had nothing to do with VPython (because it doesn't).

So it might not be an easy diagnose.

Bruce?

Too theoretical?

Why do you think so?

Art

Re: [Visualpython-users] re: Close, but no cigar

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

> You are correct that Guido wants the default to be that IDLE start in
> the shell, not in an edit window, and he is not comfortable with the
> autosave feature

Bruce,

I would like to remind you that I had some time ago, at considerable effort,
created - essentially for your benefit - a prototype Standalone VPython.  In
a Python runtime environment. With full Inno set-up files completed. And
made it available for download.

Indicating to you that it was my opinion that this might be the simplest
approach that would allow you full "rights" to customize to your hearts
content, and while actually putting *less* of a burden on your users than
you are currently - while avoiding assaults by the likes of me, who feels
your current approach is not fully responsible.  One download, all complete.

There were posts to the list indicating some definite interest in this
approach. At least as a possible alternative, and something to explore.

That's the last I heard of it.

Some clue, maybe?

Art

Re: [Visualpython-users] Close, but no cigar

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

>Bruce simply does not see any significance to the interactive prompt.

>Incredibly. He states so repeatedly.

All the more incredible, to me, because - particularly for teaching -
VPython's ability to function directly at the interactive prompt is one of
its more incredible features.

I worked hard to reconfigure PyGeo, in its latest version. to be able to
take full advantage of this capacity of VPython's.  Simply took me a while
to figure out how to do so.

So the argument is not purely theoretical, and not purely as an observer.
*I* want IDLE to start up interactively, and have every intention of
overriding Bruce's override in a PyGeo distro.

I simply can't stomach to reply directly to Bruce's comments about the
"data"  supporting his view - in light, among other things,  of the div
operator argument background, where his "data" seemed to be so influential.

He knows full well he can support that "data" with two sentences of
instructions to his students, to get them where we feels they need to be
when opening IDLE.  Rather than effecting all kinds of peoples who's needs
are quite different (stating generously that Bruce correctly perceives the
needs, and the importance of those needs, of his users).

This is silly stuff, really. And always has been.

But its hard to laugh.

Art

Re: [Visualpython-users] re: Close, but no cigar

[Bruce S. <bas...@un...>]

You are correct that Guido wants the default to be that IDLE start in 
the shell, not in an edit window, and he is not comfortable with the 
autosave feature, but IDLE does have features for changing these 
behaviors, both of which come from the VPython project and were 
innovations implemented by Dave Scherer. This is why the VPython 
installer instructions say very explicitly that these defaults are 
reversed by this installer, and alerts users to this. There was some 
discussion during the long idlefork development that the way to 
customize IDLE could include changing config-main.def, which was to be 
considered a legitimate move. That's how I knew how to achieve this effect.

For a huge number of users of VPython known to me (hundreds of students) 
it is important that IDLE start in an edit window and do autosaves. I've 
tried in various forums to explain what data these decisions are based 
on, and I won't repeat all of that here. I've prominently documented in 
the installer instructions what the situation is, and it is easy for a 
user to change it (and I'm open to improved wording of this). It makes 
sense to put a minor burden on the more sophisticated user rather than 
on the less sophisticated user (the latter alternative would be to start 
in the shell and disable autosave, but explain in the installer how to 
change this; abundant experience with users new to Python shows that the 
fewer the instructions the better, by a lot). By the way, all users will 
see the shell, because that's what the output window is.

Arthur, I do appreciate your writing up your concerns. I think you're 
right in your previous note to say that the desktop icon should be "IDLE 
for VPython" as it was when using the predecessor to the new IDLE, or 
some such, and I'll be happy to change it. I was a bit wary of this name 
because it could perhaps be misconstrued as claiming all of the new IDLE 
as a product of the VPython effort, which it is only in part. Maybe you 
or someone can come up with a better icon name (something like "IDLE - 
VPython demos", although you have to do an Open to get a demo). I'll 
wait a few days to see what suggestions crop up. Thanks.

Bruce Sherwood

Arthur wrote:

> Also as to the VPython distro:
> 
> Guido has unambigiously stated a strong preference that IDLE start in
> interactive mode. (He can correct me if I am wrong).
> 
> From my point of view, as the stated preference of the Developer of IDLE
> (not the BDFL) , I would and will respect that preference.
> 
> Bruce simply does not see any significance to the interactive prompt.
> 
> Incredibly. He states so repeatedly.
> 
> The VPython distro - despite, I think, Bruce knowing full well Guido 's
> preference - imposes his own preference on the One And Only IDLE, over
> Guido's.
> 
> So after the VPython install, the One and Only IDLE starts up as a text
> editor.  And will do so forever for any user who does not understand the
> fact that there is an ability to reset the default back to where it
> started - Interactive Mode.  In other words, precisely the user for whom
> Guido, it seems to me, feels it important that the Interactive Mode be
> default.
> 
> Guido wrote the foundation code. David Scherer, Kurt Kaiser , and others
> made significant contributions to its development.
> 
> Bruce - always, it seem to me, for good reason - pisses me off.
> 
> Art
> 
> 
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Close, but no cigar

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

Bruce -

> I'm not sure I understand the distutils issues you're raising. Are you
> saying that I should be using distutils, or are you saying that you
> understand why I can't use this mechanism, but wish it were possible?

I am agreeing that in fact you have little choice but to go beyond disutils
to accomplish the reasonable things you want to accomplish (and some of the
unreasonable things, as well ;).  I am expressing frustration on that point,
because the things that disutils *can't* do for you seem relatively minor,
but  - I agree with you - are important for adequately addressing the
reasonable needs of your user base.

And expressing some impotence in the face of the situation - because I am
not adequately configured to do much more than point to the issue. Not solve
it. That can be taken as unreasonable and unnecessary  assault on the people
who are making concrete contributions, in code, to building a distribution
system for python modules and applications.  Or, as I intend it,   my own
best effort to contribute to the effort by bringing to the fore some use
case issues.

As to my other rant - the default start-up mode for IDLE.  What can I say.
Perhaps I shouldn't be nasty.  But you seem hard to get through to.

You are effecting all users for all purposes by imposing your preference on
IDLE on anyone who happens to download VPython for any reason.

It amazes me that you don't seem to see that it is your responsibility to
instruct your users on how to change the default on their machines to the
preferences you prefer. Not impose your preferences over that of the
Developer of IDLE, and for all people who download software -which you
didn't write, own or control (visual or IDLE) - from your site.

Sorry.

Seems to me you should.

Art

Re: [Visualpython-users] Close, but no cigar

[Bruce S. <bas...@un...>]

I'd be happy to change the name of the desktop icon. It could still be 
called "IDLE for VPython" instead of "IDLE for Python". Would that be 
preferable? I thought it important to have a desktop icon, because the 
"IDLE (Python GUI)" menu item is buried so very deeply in the Start 
menu. Where it should start isn't so clear; "IDLE (Python GUI)" starts 
in C:\Python23, which is moderately inappropriate too. A more neutral 
starting point would be My Documents. But as you say, labeling it for 
VPython would seem to be better than what I did.

I'm not ecstatic about completely overwriting config-main.def. It would 
be better for the VPython installer to edit that file, and for PyGeo 
also to edit that file (e.g. adding an entry for the PyGeo help). Does 
anyone know how to do this kind of thing in the context of an installer? 
(I'm using Inno Setup.) I did think I'd covered the problems by 
prominently stating what the installer does, and inviting sophisticated 
users to make adjustments if they wish.

I'm not sure I understand the distutils issues you're raising. Are you 
saying that I should be using distutils, or are you saying that you 
understand why I can't use this mechanism, but wish it were possible?

Bruce Sherwood

Arthur wrote:

> Bruce Sherwood has released a new VPython for Python23.  IDLE has always
> been the editor which is "supported" by Bruce for the purposes of his
> physics curriculum, so the integration of IDLEdev into IDLE for Python23 has
> provided an opportunity for the simplication of the VPython distribution on
> Windows.
> 
> But despite the fact he is and has been content to have the vpython docs and
> demos reside under ...site-packages\visual, he still cannot use disutils for
> his Windows distribution.
> 
> He takes advantage of the new ability to add the VPython help files as an
> *additional* resource to the IDLE help menu.  Which is exactly why he is
> content to have the docs "buried" in ..\site-packages\visual\docs.
> 
> The problem is that the config-main.def file which needs to be touched to
> accomplish this is in ../idlelib, not off the site-packages tree.  So out of
> reach of bdist_wininst.
> 
> The other customization he chooses to make is a desktop icon which has
> ..\sitepackages\vpython\demos as its "start-in" directory.  Which is why he
> is content to have the vpython demos under ''\site-packages\visual\demos
> directory.
> 
> But he can only do this with disutils if win32all is known to be installed.
> An assumption that Bruce cannot reasonably make.
> 
> My criticism of the distribution (besides my previously stated discomfort
> about how Numeric is handled) is the fact that the icon placed on the
> desk-top is simply called "IDLE for Python" - no indication of it having
> been placed there by VPython, custom to its needs (as to the "start-in"
> directory.
> 
> For a PyGeo distro (which relies on VPython), for example, it would be
> perfectly reasonable to expect that I would add reference to the PyGeo help
> files in the IDLE config files, rather than replace the reference to the
> VPython help files.
> 
> It is not reasonable to expect me to live with a desktop icon to the one and
> only IDLE that points to the VPython demos as its start-in file.  And expect
> the PyGeo user to fend for himself.  But nor am I comfortable, or have any
> particular reason, to want to overwrite a VPython shortcut to IDLE.
> 
> The VPython placed shortcut should be clearly named so that it is understood
> it is placed on the desktop by VPython, and the approproate icon to hit when
> firing up to work on VPython.
> 
> And I can do the same as to PyGeo.
> 
> I can't believe there is any technical issue involved, especially as it
> currently assumed we are both working with full-blown Windows installers.
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> Be reasonable on this.
> 
> Please.
> 
> Art
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[Visualpython-users] re: Close, but no cigar

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

Also as to the VPython distro:

Guido has unambigiously stated a strong preference that IDLE start in
interactive mode. (He can correct me if I am wrong).

From my point of view, as the stated preference of the Developer of IDLE
(not the BDFL) , I would and will respect that preference.

Bruce simply does not see any significance to the interactive prompt.

Incredibly. He states so repeatedly.

The VPython distro - despite, I think, Bruce knowing full well Guido 's
preference - imposes his own preference on the One And Only IDLE, over
Guido's.

So after the VPython install, the One and Only IDLE starts up as a text
editor.  And will do so forever for any user who does not understand the
fact that there is an ability to reset the default back to where it
started - Interactive Mode.  In other words, precisely the user for whom
Guido, it seems to me, feels it important that the Interactive Mode be
default.

Guido wrote the foundation code. David Scherer, Kurt Kaiser , and others
made significant contributions to its development.

Bruce - always, it seem to me, for good reason - pisses me off.

Art

[Visualpython-users] Close, but no cigar

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

Bruce Sherwood has released a new VPython for Python23.  IDLE has always
been the editor which is "supported" by Bruce for the purposes of his
physics curriculum, so the integration of IDLEdev into IDLE for Python23 has
provided an opportunity for the simplication of the VPython distribution on
Windows.

But despite the fact he is and has been content to have the vpython docs and
demos reside under ...site-packages\visual, he still cannot use disutils for
his Windows distribution.

He takes advantage of the new ability to add the VPython help files as an
*additional* resource to the IDLE help menu.  Which is exactly why he is
content to have the docs "buried" in ..\site-packages\visual\docs.

The problem is that the config-main.def file which needs to be touched to
accomplish this is in ../idlelib, not off the site-packages tree.  So out of
reach of bdist_wininst.

The other customization he chooses to make is a desktop icon which has
..\sitepackages\vpython\demos as its "start-in" directory.  Which is why he
is content to have the vpython demos under ''\site-packages\visual\demos
directory.

But he can only do this with disutils if win32all is known to be installed.
An assumption that Bruce cannot reasonably make.

My criticism of the distribution (besides my previously stated discomfort
about how Numeric is handled) is the fact that the icon placed on the
desk-top is simply called "IDLE for Python" - no indication of it having
been placed there by VPython, custom to its needs (as to the "start-in"
directory.

For a PyGeo distro (which relies on VPython), for example, it would be
perfectly reasonable to expect that I would add reference to the PyGeo help
files in the IDLE config files, rather than replace the reference to the
VPython help files.

It is not reasonable to expect me to live with a desktop icon to the one and
only IDLE that points to the VPython demos as its start-in file.  And expect
the PyGeo user to fend for himself.  But nor am I comfortable, or have any
particular reason, to want to overwrite a VPython shortcut to IDLE.

The VPython placed shortcut should be clearly named so that it is understood
it is placed on the desktop by VPython, and the approproate icon to hit when
firing up to work on VPython.

And I can do the same as to PyGeo.

I can't believe there is any technical issue involved, especially as it
currently assumed we are both working with full-blown Windows installers.

Bruce,

Be reasonable on this.

Please.

Art

[Visualpython-users] Windows 2.3

[Bruce S. <bas...@un...>]

At http://vpython.org there is now an installer for Python 2.3. It does 
not install IDLE for VPython because the standard IDLE that comes with 
Python 2.3 does what we need (it was developed starting from the 
original design by David Scherer, and many people contributed to its 
further development, most recently Kurt Kaiser).

The defaults for the new IDLE are to start up a shell window rather than 
an edit window, and to not perform the very useful "autosave" when you 
run after making a change. For that reason you will see the following on 
the Windows VPython installation page:

"Note to experienced users of IDLE: The VPython installer overwrites 
Lib\idlelib\config-main.def to make the defaults editor-on-startup= 1 
and autosave= 1, as these have proved to be appropriate for most users. 
You may wish to edit the file to reset these to zero, or use the Options 
menu to reconfigure these options."

Even with autosave on, the new IDLE does prompt you to save the file the 
first time you run. This ensures that the file is saved in a known place 
on disk.

Still haven't updated the Linux/Unix installers.

Bruce Sherwood

[Visualpython-users] Stereo update

[Bruce S. <bas...@un...>]

There is a new Windows VPython installer for Python 2.2 at 
http://vpython.org that corrects an error in the stereo machinery which 
prevented stereo from being displayed. Thanks to Hugh Fisher for 
contributing the fix.

We have also changed the definition of how to invoke stereo. There are 
several different kinds of stereo: "active" with quad buffers, two for 
each eye, to be used with shutter glasses, "anaglyph" to be used with 
red-green glasses, etc. So instead of setting scene.stereo = 1 to invoke 
stereo, you now say scene.stereo = "active" to invoke active stereo. If 
you invoke a mode not yet implemented such as anaglyph, printing 
scene.stereo will show "no stereo".

No Unix/Linux update just yet.

Now that we're up to date on Python 2.2, I'll soon make a version for 
Python 2.3.

Bruce Sherwood

Re: [Visualpython-users] has anyone gotten VPython working with Python 2.3 (Windows version) ?

[Bruce A S. <bas...@un...>]

I already verified that VPython works with beta versions of Python 2.3, so
when I get back from a conference at the end of this week it should be
easy to make a version for 2.3.

Bruce Sherwood

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Bob Dickenson wrote:

>
>
>
>
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Re: [Visualpython-users] Has anyone gotten VPython working with Python 2.3 (Windows version) ??

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

I've made a self installing executable for Windows of both Numeric and
Vpython available at http://home.netcom.com/~ajs/download.html

You need both.  Should work, although I just put it together and haven't
tested thoroughly.

Art
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Dickenson" <Bob...@ve...>
To: <vis...@li...>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:32 AM
Subject: [Visualpython-users] Has anyone gotten VPython working with Python
2.3 (Windows version) ??


>
>
>
>
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[Visualpython-users] Re: Has anyone gotten VPython working with Python 2.3

[Arthur <ajs...@op...>]

>I've made a self installing executable for Windows of both Numeric and
>Vpython available at http://home.netcom.com/~ajs/download.html

BTW,

Nice to be able to now run VPython (and PyGeo) scripts using the now
standard IDLE.

Art

[Visualpython-users] Has anyone gotten VPython working with Python 2.3 (Windows version) ??

[Bob D. <Bob...@ve...>]

[Visualpython-users] has anyone gotten VPython working with Python 2.3 (Windows version) ?

[Bob D. <Bob...@ve...>]

Re: [Visualpython-users] Help - Compiling error: Didn't find " gtkgl/gtkglarea.h"

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 03:32, Jen Chang Chen wrote:
> Dear experts:
> I tried to install vpython in my iBook.
> I followed the installation steps, but There are some errors in
> screen. I listed them as follows:

> Jen Chang Chen
> 

Please see the thread "success on OS X!" in our mailing-list archives,
which began on July 21.  Basically, you will need to add -I/sw/include
to the CPPFLAGS environment variable, and -L/sw/lib to the LDFLAGS
environment variable (if not already done).  Putting the following lines
in your ~/.tcshrc file should be enough:
setenv CPPFLAGS -I/sw/include
setenv LDFLAGS -L/sw/lib

There are several other ways to get the same effect.

-Jonathan Brandmeyer

[Visualpython-users] Help - Compiling error: Didn't find " gtkgl/gtkglarea.h"

[Jen C. C. <jc...@ca...>]

Dear experts:
I tried to install vpython in my iBook.
I followed the installation steps, but There are some errors in screen. I
listed them as follows:

Making all in visual
make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
Making all in cvisual
g++ -c -I./CXX/Include -I. -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I/sw/include/python2.2 -o
arrow.lo -g -O2 -I/sw/include/gtk-1.2 -I/usr/X11R6/include
-I/sw/include/glib-1.2 -I/sw/lib/glib/include    -D_REENTRANT
-I/sw/include/glib-1.2 -I/sw/lib/glib/include   arrow.cpp
In file included from arrow.cpp:2:
xgl.h:10:29: gtkgl/gtkglarea.h: No such file or directory
make[1]: *** [arrow.lo] Error 1
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1

It seems the program can=B9t find =B3gtkglarea.h=B2, but I installed =B3gtk-glarea=B2
before compiling the visual.
 I searched the =B3gtkglare.h=B2 and it is in =B3/sw/include/gtkgl/.=B2

Could someone give me some suggestions? Thank you very much.

My computer
MacOSX10.2.6
Fink :Package manager version: 0.13.3, Distribution version: 0.5.3.cvs
December Develop Tool
X11 beta3
Python 2.2.2

Jen Chang Chen

Re: [Visualpython-users] How To

[Bruce S. <bas...@un...>]

See the section "Controlling One or More Visual Display Windows" in the=20
on-line reference manual. Basically, you need to adjust scene.forward=20
(direction of view), scene.range (or equivalently scene.scale) for zoom,=20
possibly scene.fov (field of view). Note that the demo program=20
stonehenge.py continually adjusts zoom and rotate based on mouse motion,=20
to let you move through the scene.

Bruce Sherwood

Jos=E9 A Mart=EDn H wrote:

> Hi, How to zoom in and zoom out with code, eg controlling the zoom with=
 some
> scene params
>=20
>=20
> thanks....
>=20
>=20
>=20
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Re: [Visualpython-users] success on OS X!

[Joe H. <hea...@vn...>]

On Monday, Jul 21, 2003, at 15:12 US/Eastern, Jonathan Brandmeyer wrote:

>> - After installing Fink, Gtk+, and Python22, make sure the Fink 
>> packages
>> autoconf2.5, automake, automake1.6, numeric, and pkgconfig are 
>> installed
>> too.
>
> You shouldn't need Autoconf or Automake for visual unless you are
> regenerating aclocal.m4, Makefile.in (in any directory except cvisual)
> or configure.  Did you need to do that?  The current scripts are
> generated with autoconf 2.53 and automake 1.6.  Did you need these
> programs for some other purpose?

After building Visual on my iMac, I see that you're quite correct. The 
autoconf2.5, automake, and automake1.6 packages aren't needed. I had 
them for compiling XEphem. I neglected to mention that the gtkglarea 
package is required.

So, in addition to Gtk+ (plus all its dependencies) and Python22 (plus 
all its dependencies), the pkgconfig, gtkglarea, and numeric packages 
are required to build Visual. Of course, the system-xfree86 package is 
required if you're using Apple's X11 implementation, as is the X11 SDK.

>> - Before issuing the "./configure --prefix=/sw" command, place the 
>> following
>> lines in your ~/.cshrc file:
>>
>>   setenv CFLAGS -I/sw/include
>>   setenv LDFLAGS -L/sw/include
>>   setenv CXXFLAGS $CFLAGS
>>   setenv CPPFLAGS $CXXFLAGS
>>   setenv BROWSER open
>
> A note about CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS.  Autoconf automatically sets both of 
> these
> variables to "-O2 -g" unless they are already set in the environment.
> So, with these settings, just about any Autoconf-based installation
> procedure will build without optimization or debugging symbols.  So, 
> you
> will probably want to `setenv CFLAGS "-I/sw/include -O2"` (note the
> double quotes) at least, and if you want to provide more useful
> bugreports, add -g as well.

I actually forgot about this, but it's something I can do if I want to 
rebuild Visual.

I hope these changes get put on the VPython OS X page for potential OS 
X users, especially that BROWSER flag. I nearly lost sleep over that 
one.

Cheers,
Joe Heafner

-----
<http://www.donotcall.gov/> Use it! Be sure to complain about having to 
re-register every five years and about the fact that political 
fundraisers are exempt!

RE: [Visualpython-users] WxPython + pythoncard and vpython (evaluation)

[jon s. <js...@so...>]

This won't be an evaluation so much as some observations.

As far as I can tell, Pythoncard is completely ready-for-primetime as
far as it goes.  It worked exactly as advertised and documented, and was
a much gentler introduction to wxPython than wxPython.

Ironically, however, I ended up using wxPython because I found a
wxPython code sample which was very close to what I needed.  I couldn't
figure out how to get the same effects under Pythoncard.

However, *however*, both of those frameworks (and Tk and probably
others) are considerably more complicated than vpython.  Not just
insofar as they incorporate a vast number of widgets and gizmos, but
also in that they "externalize" the mainloop which Visualpython so
elegantly internalizes.  Thus, a typical wxapp begins with something
like this: 

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    app = wxPySimpleApp()
    frame = TestFrame(None, sys.stdout)
    frame.Show(true)
    app.MainLoop()

I think the VisualPython model is more enlightened, and I'd like to
suggest that you geniuses consider hooking into wx or pythoncard "under
the hood" somehow, so that Visual retains its elegance and suitability
"for mere mortals" but now with hooks into a windowing toolkit.  I may
be missing something, but it seems to me that Visual demonstrates that
there *is* a better way, and that those other frameworks, derived from C
and Tk and other benighted languages are too 'tolerant' of complexity
and inelegance.

Having said that, my impression is that wx is very mature, and that
wxPython and Pythoncard are robust and useful packages.  

P.S.  *After* completing my project, I came across David Beech's
promising-looking 'course' on python and wxPython
http://www.codelearn.com/downloads/dbPython.zip.  See also the
c++-oriented wx tutorials at http://www.codelearn.com/.  

Regards,
------------------------------------------
Jonathan Schull, Ph.D.
Sc...@Di... <mailto:Sc...@Di...> 
http://radio.weblogs.com/0104369/stories/2002/09/24/JonathanSchullOnOneP
age.html
<http://radio.weblogs.com/0104369/stories/2002/09/24/JonathanSchullOnOne
Page.html>  
36 Brunswick St., Rochester NY 14607
585-738-6696 cell and v-mail
585-242-9497 landline
978-246-0487 fax
------------------------------------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Peterson [mailto:bap...@te...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:23 PM
> To: jon schull
> Subject: RE: [Visualpython-users] WxPython + vpython
> 
> 
> Please keep us posted on your evaluation. PythonCard sounds
> like a good 
> idea -- but I am deterred by their home page which calls the current 
> version a prototype and admits of little or no documentation. 
> One of the 
> great aspects of Python is the excellent documentation (at 
> least compared 
> to VB which admittedly is a pretty low bar) and the fact that methods 
> pretty much work as expected.
> 
> At 12:14 PM 7/17/2003, you wrote:
> 
> >Those all sound like good ideas.
> >
> >I suspect that many vpython users will evenutually gravitate toward
> >PythonCard as well (which I am evaluating right now).  PythonCard is 
> >built on top of wxpython AND it seems to have quite a good Resource 
> >Editor for wysiwyg UI development.
> >
> >So if you develop in PythonCard, you'll probably get where
> faster, pave
> >the way for other users, spare them from any 'gotchas' that may come
> >with the PythonCard layer.
> >
> >------------------------------------------
> >Jonathan Schull, Ph.D.
> >Sc...@Di... <mailto:Sc...@Di...>
> >http://radio.weblogs.com/0104369/stories/2002/09/24/JonathanS
> chullOnOne
> >P
> >age.html 
> ><http://radio.weblogs.com/0104369/stories/2002/09/24/Jonathan
> SchullOnOne
> >Page.html>
> >36 Brunswick St., Rochester NY 14607
> >585-738-6696 cell and v-mail
> >585-242-9497 landline
> >978-246-0487 fax
> >------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: vis...@li...
> > > [mailto:vis...@li...]
> On Behalf Of
> > > Bruce Peterson
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:15 PM
> > > To: vis...@li...
> > > Subject: [Visualpython-users] WxPython + vpython
> > >
> > >
> > > Another approach (that I've not tried) is possibly to set up the
> > > VPython program as a server and control it from another process
> > > running wxPython.
> > > I've written a server that uses VPython and also a VBA (from
> > > Excel) routine
> > > that controls the VPython display. As they are running in separate
> > > processes, they don't interfere with each other. (I also made
> > > the server
> > > routine multi-threaded to allow it to continue updating the
> > > display while
> > > responding to calls from VB). I've been thinking of moving
> > > the UI from
> > > Excel VBA (which is a great rapid prototype platform) to
> > > wxPython -- I'd be
> > > interested to hear if anyone knows of problems with (or has
> > > tried) the
> > > multi-process approach.
> > > Bruce Peterson
> > >
> > > At 08:32 PM 7/16/2003, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Message: 2
> > > >Subject: Re: [Visualpython-users] working visualpython +
> wxPython
> > > >program?
> > > >From: Jonathan Brandmeyer <jbr...@ea...>
> > > >Reply-To: jbr...@us...
> > > >To: Patrick Bouffard <pat...@sp...>
> > > >Cc: "Vis...@li..."
> > > ><Vis...@li...>
> > > >Date: 16 Jul 2003 11:44:31 -0400
> > > >
> > > >The short answer is "That's not possible," at least not with any
> > > >assurance of safety.  The long answer is that visual uses
> > > its own event
> > > >loop to asynchronously cache and process things like
> > > keyboard presses
> > > >and mouse clicks & drags.  Changing this behavior to
> say, embed a
> > > >vpython window within some larger python GUI program
> (using pyGTK
> > > >or wxPython or tkinter for examples) will require a mechanism
> > > to provide a
> > > >widget to visual that gives visual the necessary functionality.
> > > >
> > > >That ability to write a new toolkit-specific widget in
> > > python and pass
> > > >it to visual is not possible right now.  However, it is top
> > > on my list
> > > >of things to do with the new Boost-based interface that is
> > > cooking in
> > > >CVS.
> > > >
> > > >-Jonathan Brandmeyer
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> > > With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single
> > > machine. WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual 
> > > machines at the same time. Free trial click
> > > here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Visualpython-users mailing list 
> > > Vis...@li...
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
> > >
> 
> Bruce Peterson, Ph.D.
> Terastat, Inc
> Information Access Systems
> Voice (425) 466 7344
> Fax (206) 350 3685
> 
> 

[Visualpython-users] How To

[<jos...@ca...>]

Hi, How to zoom in and zoom out with code, eg controlling the zoom with some
scene params


thanks....

Re: [Visualpython-users] success on OS X!

[<hea...@ct...>]

>From: "Jonathan Brandmeyer" <jbr...@ea...>
>
>> - After installing Fink, Gtk+, and Python22, make sure the Fink packages 
>> autoconf2.5, automake, automake1.6, numeric, and pkgconfig are installed 
>> too. 
>
>You shouldn't need Autoconf or Automake for visual unless you are
>regenerating aclocal.m4, Makefile.in (in any directory except cvisual)
>or configure.  Did you need to do that?  The current scripts are
>generated with autoconf 2.53 and automake 1.6.  Did you need these
>programs for some other purpose?
>
You've officially gone over my head. :-) All I know is that "make" wouldn't run 
to completion for me until these packages were installed. However, I've only 
done all of this on my iBook. Tonight I will repeat it all on my iMac and I'll try to 
reproduce my results. 

>A note about CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS.  Autoconf automatically sets both of these
>variables to "-O2 -g" unless they are already set in the environment. 
>So, with these settings, just about any Autoconf-based installation
>procedure will build without optimization or debugging symbols.  So, you
>will probably want to `setenv CFLAGS "-I/sw/include -O2"` (note the
>double quotes) at least, and if you want to provide more useful
>bugreports, add -g as well.
>
Noted. I'll do this on my iMac.

Cheers,
Joe Heafner - Instructional Astronomy and Physics

Re: [Visualpython-users] success on OS X!

[Jonathan B. <jbr...@ea...>]

On Mon, 2003-07-21 at 09:45, hea...@ct... wrote:
> Good Morning.
> 
> I am finally able to compile, install, and use VPython from OS X. My systems are 
> running OS 10.2.6, Fink 0.5.3, Safari 1.0, Apple's X11 Beta 3, VPython installer 
> version 2.1.102--30709, and the December 2002 Apple Dev Tools. There is a 
> note on the Fink home page regarding the recent update to the Dec. 2002 Dev 
> Tools. Apparently there are problems with gcc 3.3. Here are some additional 
> instructions that I feel should be placed on the OS X page at VPython.org.

That doesn't surprise me.  Debian ran into severe problems with 3.3 with
the official 3.3.0 release when it came out, and the version that Apple
is shipping is a pre-release CVS build.  But then, so was the 3.1 build
that they shipped too.  The C++ front end has had a lot of bugfixing
work done to it for the upcoming 3.3.1 release.

> - After installing Fink, Gtk+, and Python22, make sure the Fink packages 
> autoconf2.5, automake, automake1.6, numeric, and pkgconfig are installed 
> too. 

You shouldn't need Autoconf or Automake for visual unless you are
regenerating aclocal.m4, Makefile.in (in any directory except cvisual)
or configure.  Did you need to do that?  The current scripts are
generated with autoconf 2.53 and automake 1.6.  Did you need these
programs for some other purpose?

> - Before issuing the "./configure --prefix=/sw" command, place the following 
> lines in your ~/.cshrc file:
> 
>   setenv CFLAGS -I/sw/include
>   setenv LDFLAGS -L/sw/include
>   setenv CXXFLAGS $CFLAGS
>   setenv CPPFLAGS $CXXFLAGS
>   setenv BROWSER open

A note about CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS.  Autoconf automatically sets both of these
variables to "-O2 -g" unless they are already set in the environment. 
So, with these settings, just about any Autoconf-based installation
procedure will build without optimization or debugging symbols.  So, you
will probably want to `setenv CFLAGS "-I/sw/include -O2"` (note the
double quotes) at least, and if you want to provide more useful
bugreports, add -g as well.

> The first four are needed so that the compiler can find Fink's gtk and OpenGL 
> libraries. The last environment variable is needed so that invoking help (by 
> pressing F1) from inside IDLE_fork will work.
> 
> - Note that enabling the "root" account really isn't necessary. You can just use 
> "sudo make install" and give your default admin password. Of course, if there 
> are multiple users on your Mac then the first user's password should suffice 
> since the first user created under OS X automatically has admin privileges.
> 
> Thanks for everyone's help!
> 
> Cheers,
> Joe Heafner - Instructional Astronomy and Physics
> Home Page http://users.vnet.net/heafnerj/index.html
> I don't have a Lexus, but I do have a Mac. Same thing.

Thanks for the feedback,
Jonathan Brandmeyer