RE: [Visualpython-users] WxPython + pythoncard and vpython (evaluation)

[jon s. <js...@so...>]

This won't be an evaluation so much as some observations.

As far as I can tell, Pythoncard is completely ready-for-primetime as
far as it goes.  It worked exactly as advertised and documented, and was
a much gentler introduction to wxPython than wxPython.

Ironically, however, I ended up using wxPython because I found a
wxPython code sample which was very close to what I needed.  I couldn't
figure out how to get the same effects under Pythoncard.

However, *however*, both of those frameworks (and Tk and probably
others) are considerably more complicated than vpython.  Not just
insofar as they incorporate a vast number of widgets and gizmos, but
also in that they "externalize" the mainloop which Visualpython so
elegantly internalizes.  Thus, a typical wxapp begins with something
like this: 

if __name__ == '__main__':
    import sys
    app = wxPySimpleApp()
    frame = TestFrame(None, sys.stdout)
    frame.Show(true)
    app.MainLoop()

I think the VisualPython model is more enlightened, and I'd like to
suggest that you geniuses consider hooking into wx or pythoncard "under
the hood" somehow, so that Visual retains its elegance and suitability
"for mere mortals" but now with hooks into a windowing toolkit.  I may
be missing something, but it seems to me that Visual demonstrates that
there *is* a better way, and that those other frameworks, derived from C
and Tk and other benighted languages are too 'tolerant' of complexity
and inelegance.

Having said that, my impression is that wx is very mature, and that
wxPython and Pythoncard are robust and useful packages.  

P.S.  *After* completing my project, I came across David Beech's
promising-looking 'course' on python and wxPython
http://www.codelearn.com/downloads/dbPython.zip.  See also the
c++-oriented wx tutorials at http://www.codelearn.com/.  

Regards,
------------------------------------------
Jonathan Schull, Ph.D.
Sc...@Di... <mailto:Sc...@Di...> 
http://radio.weblogs.com/0104369/stories/2002/09/24/JonathanSchullOnOneP
age.html
<http://radio.weblogs.com/0104369/stories/2002/09/24/JonathanSchullOnOne
Page.html>  
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------------------------------------------



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Peterson [mailto:bap...@te...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:23 PM
> To: jon schull
> Subject: RE: [Visualpython-users] WxPython + vpython
> 
> 
> Please keep us posted on your evaluation. PythonCard sounds
> like a good 
> idea -- but I am deterred by their home page which calls the current 
> version a prototype and admits of little or no documentation. 
> One of the 
> great aspects of Python is the excellent documentation (at 
> least compared 
> to VB which admittedly is a pretty low bar) and the fact that methods 
> pretty much work as expected.
> 
> At 12:14 PM 7/17/2003, you wrote:
> 
> >Those all sound like good ideas.
> >
> >I suspect that many vpython users will evenutually gravitate toward
> >PythonCard as well (which I am evaluating right now).  PythonCard is 
> >built on top of wxpython AND it seems to have quite a good Resource 
> >Editor for wysiwyg UI development.
> >
> >So if you develop in PythonCard, you'll probably get where
> faster, pave
> >the way for other users, spare them from any 'gotchas' that may come
> >with the PythonCard layer.
> >
> >------------------------------------------
> >Jonathan Schull, Ph.D.
> >Sc...@Di... <mailto:Sc...@Di...>
> >http://radio.weblogs.com/0104369/stories/2002/09/24/JonathanS
> chullOnOne
> >P
> >age.html 
> ><http://radio.weblogs.com/0104369/stories/2002/09/24/Jonathan
> SchullOnOne
> >Page.html>
> >36 Brunswick St., Rochester NY 14607
> >585-738-6696 cell and v-mail
> >585-242-9497 landline
> >978-246-0487 fax
> >------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: vis...@li...
> > > [mailto:vis...@li...]
> On Behalf Of
> > > Bruce Peterson
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 12:15 PM
> > > To: vis...@li...
> > > Subject: [Visualpython-users] WxPython + vpython
> > >
> > >
> > > Another approach (that I've not tried) is possibly to set up the
> > > VPython program as a server and control it from another process
> > > running wxPython.
> > > I've written a server that uses VPython and also a VBA (from
> > > Excel) routine
> > > that controls the VPython display. As they are running in separate
> > > processes, they don't interfere with each other. (I also made
> > > the server
> > > routine multi-threaded to allow it to continue updating the
> > > display while
> > > responding to calls from VB). I've been thinking of moving
> > > the UI from
> > > Excel VBA (which is a great rapid prototype platform) to
> > > wxPython -- I'd be
> > > interested to hear if anyone knows of problems with (or has
> > > tried) the
> > > multi-process approach.
> > > Bruce Peterson
> > >
> > > At 08:32 PM 7/16/2003, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Message: 2
> > > >Subject: Re: [Visualpython-users] working visualpython +
> wxPython
> > > >program?
> > > >From: Jonathan Brandmeyer <jbr...@ea...>
> > > >Reply-To: jbr...@us...
> > > >To: Patrick Bouffard <pat...@sp...>
> > > >Cc: "Vis...@li..."
> > > ><Vis...@li...>
> > > >Date: 16 Jul 2003 11:44:31 -0400
> > > >
> > > >The short answer is "That's not possible," at least not with any
> > > >assurance of safety.  The long answer is that visual uses
> > > its own event
> > > >loop to asynchronously cache and process things like
> > > keyboard presses
> > > >and mouse clicks & drags.  Changing this behavior to
> say, embed a
> > > >vpython window within some larger python GUI program
> (using pyGTK
> > > >or wxPython or tkinter for examples) will require a mechanism
> > > to provide a
> > > >widget to visual that gives visual the necessary functionality.
> > > >
> > > >That ability to write a new toolkit-specific widget in
> > > python and pass
> > > >it to visual is not possible right now.  However, it is top
> > > on my list
> > > >of things to do with the new Boost-based interface that is
> > > cooking in
> > > >CVS.
> > > >
> > > >-Jonathan Brandmeyer
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> 
> Bruce Peterson, Ph.D.
> Terastat, Inc
> Information Access Systems
> Voice (425) 466 7344
> Fax (206) 350 3685
> 
>