vim-latex-devel — Mailing list for developers/maintainers of the vim-latex project

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Mac OS X Leopard and F9 completion

[Christian E. <bla...@gm...>]

* Daniele Avitabile on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 at 09:02:07 +0100
> I'm using Vim-LaTeX and MacVim under Leopard. Unfortunately, F9 on this OS
> has been reserved already for exposé. Any idea how to map another key, say
> F1, to do the same?

try:

imap buffer <F1> <Plug>Tex_Completion

in ~/.vim/ftplugin/tex.vim (untested).

But first you might want think about your working practices:

Can't you press fn-F9, "fn" being the "function" key probably on
the very left of your keyboard?

And, if Leopard is not completely different to Tiger, you can go
to System Preferences->Keyboard & Mouse->Keyboard and tick the
"Use all F1, F2, etc. keys [...]" to get the standared behaviour
within Vim (and other non-Mac progs for that matter). This
reverses the behaviour of the "fn" key, that is, for exposé you
now have to press fn-F9. Depends on your use habits.

c
-- 
_B A U S T E L L E N_ lesen! --->> <http://www.blacktrash.org/baustellen.html>

[Vim-latex-devel] Mac OS X Leopard and F9 completion

[Daniele A. <d.a...@gm...>]

Hi everybody,
I'm using Vim-LaTeX and MacVim under Leopard. Unfortunately, F9 on this OS
has been reserved already for exposé. Any idea how to map another key, say
F1, to do the same?

Best.

Daniele

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] smart qoutes problem

[Stefan S. <soe...@gm...>]

I'm not sure whether this is the best solution, since it overwrites the
current locale setting (I sometimes switch between german / english) -
but it works.

Thanks!

-- Stefan

Ted Pavlic schrieb:
> I haven't combed through how Vim-LaTeX works, but I have a feeling
> that when it loads main.tex, it does some special things to other
> files loaded in other buffers. However, it gets confused when they get
> opened in other tabs or split windows. In fact, it might suspend some
> of its rules in these other spaces because it's worried you're looking
> at a TeX log file or AUX file or something like that.
>
> Either way, I have a FEELING that adding that
>
> let g:Tex_SmartQuoteOpen = '"`'
> let g:Tex_SmartQuoteClose = "\"'"
>
> to your .vimrc will fix these problems. Does it?
>
> --Ted
>
>
> Stefan Söffing wrote:
>> Well, I'm not sure of this. The '\usepackage{ngerman}' line is located
>> in my 'main.tex' file which includes some other files, which do not have
>> this line in it at all. But the SmartQuotes do work for these files,
>> even without this line. But they do not work for a second (split/tab)
>> file.
>>
>> - Stefan
>>
>> Ted Pavlic schrieb:
>>> Stefan --
>>>
>>>     I *think* that Vim-LaTeX looks for
>>>
>>> \usepackage{german}
>>>
>>> in your TeX and, if found, runs the
>>>
>>> ~/.vim/ftplugin/latex-suite/packages/german
>>>
>>> file. That file has in it:
>>>
>>>
>>> let b:Tex_SmartQuoteOpen = '"`'
>>> let b:Tex_SmartQuoteClose = "\"'"
>>>
>>>
>>> which sets everything up. I'm guessing that when you open a new
>>> buffer, the buffer doesn't look like a TeX file with a
>>> \usepackage{german} line in it, so it doesn't automatically get loaded.
>>>
>>>
>>>     I think you want to put:
>>>
>>> let g:Tex_SmartQuoteOpen = '"`'
>>> let g:Tex_SmartQuoteClose = "\"'"
>>>
>>> in your .vimrc. NOTICE THE "g:" instead of a "b:". The "g:" versions
>>> are "global," so they'll apply to EVERY TeX that you open. HOWEVER, if
>>> that TeX has a \usepackage line that calls a script that sets the "b:"
>>> versions to something, those "b:" versions will override your "g:"
>>> versions.
>>>
>>>
>>>     I hope that helps --
>>>     Ted
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Stefan Söffing wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I'm using vim latexsuite for german text. The smart qoute feature is
>>>> quite nice, since it replaces a " automatically with the "` or "' keys
>>>> for german double qoutes. Unfortunately when opening a file in a
>>>> new tab
>>>> / split window, the " keypress is replaced by `` or '' which yields
>>>> english quotes.
>>>>
>>>> Is there anythind one can do to avoid this?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>   Stefan
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
>>>> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
>>>> just about anything Open Source.
>>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Vim-latex-devel mailing list
>>>> Vim...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vim-latex-devel
>>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] smart qoutes problem

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

I haven't combed through how Vim-LaTeX works, but I have a feeling that 
when it loads main.tex, it does some special things to other files 
loaded in other buffers. However, it gets confused when they get opened 
in other tabs or split windows. In fact, it might suspend some of its 
rules in these other spaces because it's worried you're looking at a TeX 
log file or AUX file or something like that.

Either way, I have a FEELING that adding that

let g:Tex_SmartQuoteOpen = '"`'
let g:Tex_SmartQuoteClose = "\"'"

to your .vimrc will fix these problems. Does it?

--Ted


Stefan Söffing wrote:
> Well, I'm not sure of this. The '\usepackage{ngerman}' line is located
> in my 'main.tex' file which includes some other files, which do not have
> this line in it at all. But the SmartQuotes do work for these files,
> even without this line. But they do not work for a second (split/tab) file.
> 
> - Stefan
> 
> Ted Pavlic schrieb:
>> Stefan --
>>
>>     I *think* that Vim-LaTeX looks for
>>
>> \usepackage{german}
>>
>> in your TeX and, if found, runs the
>>
>> ~/.vim/ftplugin/latex-suite/packages/german
>>
>> file. That file has in it:
>>
>>
>> let b:Tex_SmartQuoteOpen = '"`'
>> let b:Tex_SmartQuoteClose = "\"'"
>>
>>
>> which sets everything up. I'm guessing that when you open a new
>> buffer, the buffer doesn't look like a TeX file with a
>> \usepackage{german} line in it, so it doesn't automatically get loaded.
>>
>>
>>     I think you want to put:
>>
>> let g:Tex_SmartQuoteOpen = '"`'
>> let g:Tex_SmartQuoteClose = "\"'"
>>
>> in your .vimrc. NOTICE THE "g:" instead of a "b:". The "g:" versions
>> are "global," so they'll apply to EVERY TeX that you open. HOWEVER, if
>> that TeX has a \usepackage line that calls a script that sets the "b:"
>> versions to something, those "b:" versions will override your "g:"
>> versions.
>>
>>
>>     I hope that helps --
>>     Ted
>>
>>
>>
>> Stefan Söffing wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm using vim latexsuite for german text. The smart qoute feature is
>>> quite nice, since it replaces a " automatically with the "` or "' keys
>>> for german double qoutes. Unfortunately when opening a file in a new tab
>>> / split window, the " keypress is replaced by `` or '' which yields
>>> english quotes.
>>>
>>> Is there anythind one can do to avoid this?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>   Stefan
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
>>> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
>>> just about anything Open Source.
>>> http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Vim-latex-devel mailing list
>>> Vim...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vim-latex-devel
>>>
> 
> 

-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] smart qoutes problem

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

Stefan --

	I *think* that Vim-LaTeX looks for

\usepackage{german}

in your TeX and, if found, runs the

~/.vim/ftplugin/latex-suite/packages/german

file. That file has in it:


let b:Tex_SmartQuoteOpen = '"`'
let b:Tex_SmartQuoteClose = "\"'"


which sets everything up. I'm guessing that when you open a new buffer, 
the buffer doesn't look like a TeX file with a \usepackage{german} line 
in it, so it doesn't automatically get loaded.


	I think you want to put:

let g:Tex_SmartQuoteOpen = '"`'
let g:Tex_SmartQuoteClose = "\"'"

in your .vimrc. NOTICE THE "g:" instead of a "b:". The "g:" versions are 
"global," so they'll apply to EVERY TeX that you open. HOWEVER, if that 
TeX has a \usepackage line that calls a script that sets the "b:" 
versions to something, those "b:" versions will override your "g:" versions.


	I hope that helps --
	Ted



Stefan Söffing wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm using vim latexsuite for german text. The smart qoute feature is
> quite nice, since it replaces a " automatically with the "` or "' keys
> for german double qoutes. Unfortunately when opening a file in a new tab
> / split window, the " keypress is replaced by `` or '' which yields
> english quotes.
> 
> Is there anythind one can do to avoid this?
> 
> Regards,
>   Stefan
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It's the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace
> _______________________________________________
> Vim-latex-devel mailing list
> Vim...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vim-latex-devel
> 

-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

[Vim-latex-devel] smart qoutes problem

[Stefan S. <soe...@gm...>]

Hi all,

I'm using vim latexsuite for german text. The smart qoute feature is
quite nice, since it replaces a " automatically with the "` or "' keys
for german double qoutes. Unfortunately when opening a file in a new tab
/ split window, the " keypress is replaced by `` or '' which yields
english quotes.

Is there anythind one can do to avoid this?

Regards,
  Stefan

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

> As for hints from other persons:

Also, be sure to take note of the hint from Franco about imapping your 
extended characters to the LaTeX combinations. That doesn't solve the 
spellchecking/etc issues, but it might make for an interesting fix.

> Tobias:
>> I think you got it wrong. Compose is a sequence, not a combination. You
>> should  do "rwin, ', a". (i.e.,  three in a row.) I use Compose all the 
>> time for anything that's not in my keymap. It's very logical.
> 
> What can I say? You are simply right: it works. Maybe that after some time 
> using only italian keyboards, when I went back to an english one I forgot 
> it and tried to use it in a wrong way... :-((

Exciting fix.

--Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Fabio S. <f.s...@un...>]

> Best wishes, and I'm sorry that Vim is being the hassle that it is. :(
>
> Regardless of your character set, I'm just happy to see more people
> using Vim and LaTeX.

Vim is not an hassle at all! Thanks to its great support to regex, 
changing all \' was really an easy task.
I like very much vim and I think vim+vimlatex(+latex symbols selector)
is a great tex editor.

As for hints from other persons:

Tobias:
> I think you got it wrong. Compose is a sequence, not a combination. You
> should  do "rwin, ', a". (i.e.,  three in a row.) I use Compose all the 
> time for anything that's not in my keymap. It's very logical.

What can I say? You are simply right: it works. Maybe that after some time 
using only italian keyboards, when I went back to an english one I forgot 
it and tried to use it in a wrong way... :-((

Guido:
Yes, I saw the FAQ and I am able to get é with the appropriate key: my 
problem was when using an english keyboard.


Thank you to everybody for the attention and the useful discussion

Fabio

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Tobias W. <tow...@gm...>]

Fabio S. <f.stumbo <at> unife.it> writes:

Salve.

> I am having problems with digraphs in vimlatex: in normal vim, to obtain é
> I usually type  '<BS>e
> When in vimlatex, the same doesn't hold. Why?

I don't know why, but isn't this too many keystrokes anyway , i.e., the
vim method for diacriticals? Have you inspected your Xkb keymap to see
whether you have useful third level combos (AltGr+...)? These require only
two keys. I even customized mine to replace some icelandic with more greek,
etc.

> I know I can use <CTRL-K>'e, but I would like to know why the other way 
> doesn't work: it
> should, since the digraph option is on.
> 
> I am also having trouble with the compose function, which is mapped to 
> rwin in xorg.conf: to
> obtain é I should type (rwin+')e.
>
> Sometimes this works, others it doesn't: I can't understand this either.

I think you got it wrong. Compose is a sequence, not a combination. You
should  do "rwin, ', a". (i.e.,  three in a row.) I use Compose all the time for
anything that's not in my keymap. It's very logical.

--Tobias

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Franco S. <sa...@gm...>]

Ciao Fabio,

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:46 AM, Fabio S. <f.s...@un...> wrote:

> Yet, it doesn't solve completely the problem. An example: assume you add
> the word "unit\`a" (which is the italian for "unity"). It is then correctly
> recognized, BUT it is not every time it occurs as "l'unit\`a" (which is
> the italian for "the unity").

Two things come to mind, but I haven't tried either so I don't know
how well it will work.

Have you tried imapping all the accented characters to their TeX
equivalents? It seems like that should work, but I would prefer the
next option.

Why not just use inputenc? Should you need to share your files, or
once you are done editing them, you can easily replace all the
accented characters with their TeX equivalents.

That said, thank you very much for bringing up the topic. I didn't
know about inputenc or about how nicely digraphs work in vim. It'll
make things easier for me.

Take care,
Franco

--

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

>> 	On the other hand, it should be(?) possible to add the long version of
>> those words to a dictionary.
> 
> Indeed it is possible, and it was my first try to hack the problem, 
> because I didn't want to go for extended charsets. 
> Yet, it doesn't solve completely the problem. An example: assume you add 
> the word "unit\`a" (which is the italian for "unity"). It is then correctly 
> recognized, BUT it is not every time it occurs as "l'unit\`a" (which is 
> the italian for "the unity"). If you write a book about rings, groups and 
> things like that, you will see such a word nearly every paragraph... :-(
> And this just one example. In the book I am writing, I found about 
> 300 of similar examples...  :-(((
> The only way out I could think of, was to write "l'{unit\`a}", but it 
> becomes quickly a pain!

Those are all good points.

> I know (La)Tex is not WYSIWYG, but accented letters are not formatted 
> text: they should be considered simply part of the alfabet.
> I believe that if Knuth had written TeX now, he wouldn't have limited it 
> to ascii, because he was well aware of the problem of accented letters 
> (and, even worse, of non latin alphabet), since he provided a hack for 
> them.
> Simply, when he wrote TeX, ascii was the only charset, I think 
> (iso-8859-1 dates 1985, utf-8 was released in 1993).

That's true. I also think Knuth had a different audience in mind; I 
wonder if he ever thought TeX would grow the way it has.

Maybe accented characters are the "Y2K" bug of TeX (or of text editors, 
like Vim).


> I saw it, but I fear that I will break, this way, other features.
> I think I will use ctrl-k when I need it.

Guido Milanese has posted a helpful tip that may be a better alternative.


Best wishes, and I'm sorry that Vim is being the hassle that it is. :(

Regardless of your character set, I'm just happy to see more people 
using Vim and LaTeX.

--Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Guido M. <gui...@un...>]

On Monday 31 March 2008 10:32:11 Fabio S. wrote:
> I am having problems with digraphs in vimlatex: in normal vim, to
> obtain é I usually type  '<BS>e

There is a FAQ entry about this point:

Q: I cannot insert the e-acute (é) character! HELP! 
Insert the following line in your ~/.vim/ftplugin/tex.vim file: 
imap <buffer> <leader>it <Plug>Tex_InsertItemOnThisLine
Replace <leader>it with any other key-sequence. This will make 
<leader>it key insert an \item command corresponding to the last 
opened environment in the current line in insert mode. The <M-i> key 
which is used for inserting the e-acute character will remain 
unmapped.

This way, if you use an Italian or French keyboard, you can enter 'é' 
simply using the appropriate key.
I followed the debate on how to enter accented chars in LaTeX, and 
it's one of the most typical topics in TeX usergroups, or better it 
was years ago. In my case, I am very happy of entering accented chars 
as single chars, since, being a linguist,  I type in English, 
Italian, German and some other Latin-based language, and almost every 
day also ancient Greek. Without the abilty of accepting normal input, 
I think that using LaTeX would not be a reasonale choice for me and 
people in my field. The combination "LaTeX + inputenc + vimlatex" is 
extremely efficient for a scholar in this area.

Best regards,
Guido, from Italy
  
-- 
http://docenti.unicatt.it/milanese_guido
http://www.arsantiqua.org

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Fabio S. <f.s...@un...>]

> 	This may not help you if you're not on OS/X, but there's a feature of
> Skim (a PDF viewer on OS/X) that lets you spell check a PDF.

It doesn't help me: I am on linux. Nevertheless, I didn't know about such 
a feature: I will pay attention to it if ever it will be ported in linux.

> 	On the other hand, it should be(?) possible to add the long version of
> those words to a dictionary.

Indeed it is possible, and it was my first try to hack the problem, 
because I didn't want to go for extended charsets. 
Yet, it doesn't solve completely the problem. An example: assume you add 
the word "unit\`a" (which is the italian for "unity"). It is then correctly 
recognized, BUT it is not every time it occurs as "l'unit\`a" (which is 
the italian for "the unity"). If you write a book about rings, groups and 
things like that, you will see such a word nearly every paragraph... :-(
And this just one example. In the book I am writing, I found about 
300 of similar examples...  :-(((
The only way out I could think of, was to write "l'{unit\`a}", but it 
becomes quickly a pain!

>> Finally, don't forget that ASCII is suited only for english: there is no
>> other language on earth which can fit in it. It is an heritage of the old
>> days when computers were born: now that they are going to spread around
>> the world this problem must be faced (and, indeed, it is) and solved. If
>> there are problems in viewing files, it is because software is old or non
>> standard. Don't forget that you can have problems even in ascii when
>> passing from dos to unix and back...
>
> 	I agree partly. It's just that when it comes to digraphs (and
> ligatures), there are other important typesetting details that require
> us to do things like \'e or use inputenc (even if there's a keyboard
> character for them). LaTeX is not WYSIWIG.

I know (La)Tex is not WYSIWYG, but accented letters are not formatted 
text: they should be considered simply part of the alfabet.
I believe that if Knuth had written TeX now, he wouldn't have limited it 
to ascii, because he was well aware of the problem of accented letters 
(and, even worse, of non latin alphabet), since he provided a hack for 
them.
Simply, when he wrote TeX, ascii was the only charset, I think 
(iso-8859-1 dates 1985, utf-8 was released in 1993).

> Take a look at my IMAP "fix" in another message in this thread. 
> Maybe it will help you out (or at least give you a template).

I saw it, but I fear that I will break, this way, other features.
I think I will use ctrl-k when I need it.

Regards

Fabio

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

> Sure there is. But also there's a good chance your working environment is
> adapted to cope with that problem: editors guess the document encoding,
> mail and websites explicitely tell you about it and so on. The other side
> simply is that 7bit ASCII is fine for English and (I daresay) probably
> English only. If you see tex source as "program code", that is in a
> technical way, that may be ok. But I guess the majority of tex users (maybe

I view TeX as program code, and that's the root of our disagreement.

However, I feel that TeX is meant to be program code. In Knuth's 
TeXbook, he explicitly tells people to view TeX as a beast that eats 
tokens. He says that when you write, you must keep the category codes in 
mind so that you know exactly how TeX, as a system, behaves in response 
to your input.

So, I'm okay with a few extra keystrokes. Its an investment that I'm 
willing to pay. I think the interest is worth it.


>> Plus, is \'e much worse to type than '<BS>e?
> 
> No, its not. My point is not about digraphs, its about non-ASCII
> characters. Thankfully, German doesn't have so many accents on its letters
> like French, Italian, Spanish and so on.

(similarly, I could have asked about \"u)

Let's say you have a u-umlaut key on your keyboard. Isn't there going to 
be a time when you accidentally don't hit the modifier you need to 
activate the umlauts? Won't it be harder for you to notice that a u is 
lacking its umlaut than it will be to notice that a u is lacking its \"?

To me, it seems like a safer convention to try to force myself to do \"u 
(or use a Vim mapping that explicitly expands to it, rather than using 
inputenc).


>> So, in your case, I'd recommend using Vim's mapping features to map
>> those keys to their LaTeX counterparts. That way everyone is safe and
>> your message gets communicated loud and clear.
> 
> I for my part am happy to accept the risk of non-compatible encodings for
> non-ascii characters to gain the ease to be able to type and read all
> characters as they naturally occur in the language im writing in in the
> moment.

And I'm happy to view my TeX and document separately, with my PDF viewer 
in one window and my TeX source in another. PDF viewers that support 
autoreloading and spell checking help make my own editing process very 
reasonable.

But TeX isn't just for me. It's reasonable that different kinds of 
authoring should be available, and the type of authoring that lets you 
read the TeX (instead of the final product) should be allowed.

For now, TeX is far from that. TeX has scarce unicode support and is 
going to need a massive overhaul to make editing in different languages 
cleaner. For now, cheap hacks are the best we can do.

Best --
Ted



-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

Fabio --

> But this could even be secondary with respect to the main reason that made 
> me switch to extended charsets: words accented in the tex way are not 
> recognized in vim spell checker. This alone deserves the effort of 
> changing a 20 years old habit, when you type a book, in a nonenglish 
> language! And I can assure you that there are a lot of them
> (both books and languages)... ;-)

	This may not help you if you're not on OS/X, but there's a feature of 
Skim (a PDF viewer on OS/X) that lets you spell check a PDF. You can 
then use inverse searching to click on a misspelled word and have it 
take you to the source. This nice feature (which is entirely due to an 
open source project put together by developers who respond to the 
community, unlike anything done by Apple or Microsoft developerzzz) 
prevents such problems.

	On the other hand, it should be(?) possible to add the long version of 
those words to a dictionary.

> Finally, don't forget that ASCII is suited only for english: there is no 
> other language on earth which can fit in it. It is an heritage of the old 
> days when computers were born: now that they are going to spread around 
> the world this problem must be faced (and, indeed, it is) and solved. If 
> there are problems in viewing files, it is because software is old or non 
> standard. Don't forget that you can have problems even in ascii when 
> passing from dos to unix and back...

	I agree partly. It's just that when it comes to digraphs (and 
ligatures), there are other important typesetting details that require 
us to do things like \'e or use inputenc (even if there's a keyboard 
character for them). LaTeX is not WYSIWIG. Regardless of your character 
set, at some point you will need to put strange encodings in your source 
in order to communicate to TeX what you actually mean. For example, in 
my work, I typeset a great deal of mathematics, and I have no qualms 
with typing lots and lots and lots of extra characters (some of which 
are simplified by Vim by use of Vim-LaTeX's IMAP).

> As for the reason I am looking at digraphs, it is simple: I use both an 
> italian and an american keyboard and I am looking for the fastest way to 
> type accents on the american keyboard. To say it all, the fastest way 
> would be to use the so called deadkeys in X, but I don't like them.
> As I need accented letters mainly in vim, there I thought that digraphs 
> would be a reasonable choice; but, as I can see, only in the
> CTRL-K way... :-(

	Take a look at my IMAP "fix" in another message in this thread. Maybe 
it will help you out (or at least give you a template).

	--Ted



-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Fabio S. <f.s...@un...>]

> Regardless, I don't think most LaTeX users will use digraphs in this
> way. If you want to typeset an accented character, you should use LaTeX
> to do so. In particular,
>
> \`e and \'e
>
> give you accents on e (after typesetting). That is, you get the digraphs
> AFTER typesetting, not before.
>
> Do you have a reason you need more than the 127 standard ASCII
> characters in your LaTeX **SOURCE**?

First of all, I didn't say it but, yes, I use the inputenc package.

About your hint, I know very well that \`e gives è in the final work. I 
have used it in the last twenty or so years...

On the other hand, there are many reasons why one would prefer è instead 
of \`e.
The first is that on an italian keyboard it is only one keystroke instead 
of 4 (to obtain ` you need RightAlt+? ). It doesn' make such a difference 
if you write only a letter every now and then, but if you have to write a 
book it makes A LOT of, expecially in other languages requiring more 
accents like french.
But this could even be secondary with respect to the main reason that made 
me switch to extended charsets: words accented in the tex way are not 
recognized in vim spell checker. This alone deserves the effort of 
changing a 20 years old habit, when you type a book, in a nonenglish 
language! And I can assure you that there are a lot of them
(both books and languages)... ;-)

Finally, don't forget that ASCII is suited only for english: there is no 
other language on earth which can fit in it. It is an heritage of the old 
days when computers were born: now that they are going to spread around 
the world this problem must be faced (and, indeed, it is) and solved. If 
there are problems in viewing files, it is because software is old or non 
standard. Don't forget that you can have problems even in ascii when 
passing from dos to unix and back...

As for the reason I am looking at digraphs, it is simple: I use both an 
italian and an american keyboard and I am looking for the fastest way to 
type accents on the american keyboard. To say it all, the fastest way 
would be to use the so called deadkeys in X, but I don't like them.
As I need accented letters mainly in vim, there I thought that digraphs 
would be a reasonable choice; but, as I can see, only in the
CTRL-K way... :-(

Best wishes

Fabio

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

>> Do you have a reason you need more than the 127 standard ASCII
>> characters in your LaTeX **SOURCE**?
> 
> How about "ease of typing"? If my keyboard has it (say German umlauts, in
> my case), TeX understands it (inputenc) why shouldn't I use it?

Remember that inputenc does behind-the-scenes exactly what I'm saying -- 
it translates exotic characters (especially in the case of unicode) to 
"safer" ones.

> (I'm aware that doesn't relate to Fabio's initial problem anymore. But I
> think it does to your question.)

Whenever we stray above 7 bits per character, I get a little worried. 
ASCII is only 7-bits, and no one can agree on character encoding after 
that. If I have a source file with characters that make use of that 
extra bit (or more!), there's a good chance people who I work with are 
not going to be able to read my file properly.

In particular, let's say I only use one accented e in an entire 
document. There's a good chance that one accented e can go about being 
mucked around through various text editors on various different 
operating systems, and no one is going to notice until it's out for 
publication. Suddenly the accented e looks like an emptyset or something 
like that.

Plus, is \'e much worse to type than '<BS>e?

I understand that more advanced keyboards are going to have more 
advanced keys. However, when you must work with other people on 
computers, and when a large portion of those users are going to be 
restricted to viewing the 127 ASCII characters safely, it might be best 
to restrict yourself to the 127 ASCII characters.

So, in your case, I'd recommend using Vim's mapping features to map 
those keys to their LaTeX counterparts. That way everyone is safe and 
your message gets communicated loud and clear.

--Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

> I am having problems with digraphs in vimlatex: in normal vim, to obtain é
> I usually type  '<BS>e
> When in vimlatex, the same doesn't hold. Why?
> 
> I know I can use <CTRL-K>'e, but I would like to know why the other way 
> doesn't work: it
> should, since the digraph option is on.

If you must, try something like this (e.g., in your .vimrc)

imap '<BS> <C-K>'

Alternatively, you can use the IMAP command, but you won't be able to 
use backspace... For example:

au VimEnter call IMAP("'\\", "\<C-k>'", '')

will make '\ act just like '<BS>. In that last case, you can make the 
IMAP command only apply to tex files by changing the third argument:

au VimEnter call IMAP("'\\", "\<C-k>'", 'tex')


Again, I don't know why Vim-LaTeX is changing how these keys work, but 
if you must use digraphs in your source, hopefully those mappings will 
help make things a little easier.


Note:

*) If you're using digraphs, you should use the inputenc package to 
translate those digraphs the proper LaTeX equivalents.

*) Depending on how exotic your digraphs are (e.g., how many bits they 
are), be careful who you send them to. For example, doing

<C-k>'e

on my OS/X system does not produce an accented e on my screen.


Best wishes --
Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

I'm guessing that the problem is related to Vim's extended IMAP 
features, but I personally don't know.

Regardless, I don't think most LaTeX users will use digraphs in this 
way. If you want to typeset an accented character, you should use LaTeX 
to do so. In particular,

\`e and \'e

give you accents on e (after typesetting). That is, you get the digraphs 
AFTER typesetting, not before.

Do you have a reason you need more than the 127 standard ASCII 
characters in your LaTeX **SOURCE**?

--Ted

Fabio S. wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I am having problems with digraphs in vimlatex: in normal vim, to obtain é
> I usually type  '<BS>e
> When in vimlatex, the same doesn't hold. Why?
> 
> I know I can use <CTRL-K>'e, but I would like to know why the other way 
> doesn't work: it
> should, since the digraph option is on.
> 
> I am also having trouble with the compose function, which is mapped to 
> rwin in xorg.conf: to
> obtain é I should type (rwin+')e.
> Sometimes this works, others it doesn't: I can't understand this either.
> 
> Any hints?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Fabio
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vim-latex-devel

-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

[Vim-latex-devel] Digraphs and vimlatex

[Fabio S. <f.s...@un...>]

Hi all,

I am having problems with digraphs in vimlatex: in normal vim, to obtain é
I usually type  '<BS>e
When in vimlatex, the same doesn't hold. Why?

I know I can use <CTRL-K>'e, but I would like to know why the other way 
doesn't work: it
should, since the digraph option is on.

I am also having trouble with the compose function, which is mapped to 
rwin in xorg.conf: to
obtain é I should type (rwin+')e.
Sometimes this works, others it doesn't: I can't understand this either.

Any hints?

Thank you

Fabio

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Script to fix compiler error messages for VIM-LaTeX

[Christian E. <bla...@gm...>]

* Ted Pavlic on Saturday, March 08, 2008 at 15:34:11 -0500
> So, in your opinion, it's probably rare that line numbers will be broken 
> across two lines THREE times in a row, and so I should just leave things 
> as they are. A single instance of sed (running four search/replace 
> scripts) is better than a full blown Perl (or Python, eek!).

I haven't had any problems, but watching the output I sometimes
see things like:

[1{/Users/chris/.texmf-
var/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/pdftex.map}]

Just to let you know, I'm not sure whether Vim-LaTeX actually
consults those broken lines, and, if yes, handles them correctly
already. I'd have to dive into the Vim-LaTeX code to be sure, and
am too lazy atm.

Thanks again for the script.

c
-- 
LaTeX package to set verse flush right on overrun:
<http://www.blacktrash.org/hg/foverse/>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Script to fix compiler error messages for VIM-LaTeX

[Christian E. <bla...@gm...>]

* Ted Pavlic on Saturday, March 08, 2008 at 15:34:11 -0500
>> Python and Perl are included; the libs are in a non-standard
>> location: /Library/Perl/... But for for executing scripts you
>> should be fine. Still for these tasks sed and awk are way cooler
>> and faster.
> 
> So, in your opinion, it's probably rare that line numbers will be broken 
> across two lines THREE times in a row,

You wait 'till all those complaints flood in ;)

> and so I should just leave things as they are. A single
> instance of sed (running four search/replace scripts) is better
> than a full blown Perl (or Python, eek!).

It surely is faster -- and I like the dirty newline workaround
for sed. As I am saying "newline", I wouldn't know what happens
on a windows machine.

Another alternative worth looking into might be to offer
something with Vim's builtin Perl/Python (Vim-LaTeX already has
some Python stuff) in case Vim is compiled with +python or +perl.

I might look into the Python side if I find time (and when I
actually understand some of what your script does ;) ), as you
don't seem to like py, hehe.

c
-- 
_B A U S T E L L E N_ lesen! --->> <http://www.blacktrash.org/baustellen.html>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Extra double quote within align environments

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

I don't have the problem with align via F5, but I do have the problem 
with some of the other F5 environments.

However, I DON'T have the problem with the key shortcuts. For example, 
typing (in insert mode):

EAL

gives me an align environment properly jumped with no trouble.

Have you tried EAL? (and the others?)

--Ted

Rhys Ulerich wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing an extra double quote within align* 
> environments?  E.g.,
>   \begin{align*}
>       "
>   \end{align*}<++>
> after the environment insertion ends.
> 
> It occurs when hitting F5 and selecting align or align* (options 7/8) 
> from the list.  Typing either environment name first and hitting F5 
> doesn't behave the same way.  Vim version 7.1 off the latest CVS.
> 
> - Rhys
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Vim...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/vim-latex-devel

-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Script to fix compiler error messages for VIM-LaTeX

[Ted P. <te...@te...>]

> Python and Perl are included; the libs are in a non-standard
> location: /Library/Perl/... But for for executing scripts you
> should be fine. Still for these tasks sed and awk are way cooler
> and faster.

So, in your opinion, it's probably rare that line numbers will be broken 
across two lines THREE times in a row, and so I should just leave things 
as they are. A single instance of sed (running four search/replace 
scripts) is better than a full blown Perl (or Python, eek!).

Great, then. Thanks for your help! --
Ted


-- 
Ted Pavlic <te...@te...>

Re: [Vim-latex-devel] Extra double quote within align environments

[Martin S. <fo...@un...>]

On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 05:19:27PM -0600, Rhys Ulerich wrote:
> Is anyone else experiencing an extra double quote within align*
> environments?  E.g.,
>   \begin{align*}
>       "
>   \end{align*}<++>
> after the environment insertion ends.
> 
> It occurs when hitting F5 and selecting align or align* (options 7/8) from
> the list. Typing either environment name first and hitting F5 doesn't
> behave the same way.  Vim version 7.1 off the latest CVS.

Its does not only affect align environments, it affects all I have
tried. $$ gives even stranger results:

\begin{document}
"`$$$X
\end{document}

if there are jumpmarks the behaviour is even worse.
Vim 7.1.56, ubuntu 7.10.

Martin