super-tux-devel — Development mailing list for Super Tux

Re: [Super-tux-devel] MAX lives

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 08:06:51PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
> Hi all,
>=20
> should there be a limit on lives? I'll answer my own question now:
> YES.
>=20
> And now the real question: ;)
> How many lives should be the maximum?

99, of course! ;^)

-bill!

[Super-tux-devel] MAX lives

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Hi all,

should there be a limit on lives? I'll answer my own question now:
YES.

And now the real question: ;)
How many lives should be the maximum?

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer
-- 

Re: [Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound patch 2

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Hi Duong,

could you please make a patch against the CVS next time?
Little instruction:

1.
Your new content of ~/.cvsrc (without the dashs)
--------- 
cvs -z4
diff -u3 -p
update -dP
checkout -P
---------

2.
cd your-supertux-working-directory
cvs diff

Send the patch to this list.

This has the advantage, that the patch doesn't destroy my local working
directory and is formated in a defacto standard. :)

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

Re: [Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound patch 2

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Fri, Dec 19, 2003 at 03:58:15PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
>=20
> I'll merge our work and commit it.

Thanks, both of you! :^) :^)


> > Hmm, I didn't even have launch yet. It's 3:30 pm already !
>=20
> /Me always eats while programming. ;)

Hehe, I woke up at 7pm local time yesterday (went to bed at 10am yesterda=
y
morning), and went to a restaurant that was open until 4am.  I worked
there all night on a game I'm writing for cellphones for a company I'm
consulting for.  :^)

It's 7am here now...  A few more hours, and I'll go to bed.
(I'm trying to get back on a normal, human, daytime schedule :) )

-bill!
bi...@ne...                           Got kids?  Get Tux Pa=
int!=20
http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/       http://newbreedsoftware.com/tuxpa=
int/

Re: [Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound patch 2

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Fr, den 19.12.2003 schrieb Duong-Khang NGUYEN um 09:29:
>   Hi,
> 
> Here is the patch that will make everyone happy. It allows the user to 
> --disable-sound and compile with nosound. The number of the "evil" NOSOUND 
> was brought down to 7 (there were 46). The "gameloop.c" no more checks the 
> variable "nosound" it's the "sound.c" 's job now.

That's exactly like my approach.
I reduced the NOSOUNDs down to 2. ;)

> 
> The audio frequency is set to 44100Hz. Everyone will prefer the CD quality 
> sound I think :-D

YEAH!

I'll merge our work and commit it.

> Hmm, I didn't even have launch yet. It's 3:30 pm already !

/Me always eats while programming. ;)

Greetz...

the always hungry (but not fat)
Tobias Gläßer
-- 

[Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound patch 2

[Duong-Khang N. <neo...@us...>]

  Hi,

Here is the patch that will make everyone happy. It allows the user to 
--disable-sound and compile with nosound. The number of the "evil" NOSOUND 
was brought down to 7 (there were 46). The "gameloop.c" no more checks the 
variable "nosound" it's the "sound.c" 's job now.

The audio frequency is set to 44100Hz. Everyone will prefer the CD quality 
sound I think :-D

Hmm, I didn't even have launch yet. It's 3:30 pm already !

Re: [Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound and NOSOUND

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 11:26:16PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
>=20
> The sound effects in supertux don't sound like they should. When I play
> them with something like xmms they sound different, so I conclude, that
> SDL_mixer is at least bad in playing .wav files.

Which version do of SDL_mixer do you have?  I started Super Tux long ago,
so I may have initialized SDL_mixer wrong, or you could have a buggy vers=
ion
(it's had some bugs in the past, but is pretty good now, I think)


> You are right. There are SDL_mixer packages for nearly every major
> distro.
>=20
> > > -Creating fake functions, which do nothing, if someone don't wants =
to
> > > link against SDL_mixer. (Just a idea, I dunno if that is 100% possi=
ble
> > > ;) )
> >=20
> > Defined with #define?  ;)  Heheheheheh
>=20
> There would be only one remaining #ifndef, which would lead to much
> cleaner code.

True. :)  I guess the way _I_ think of it is, once I write, say,
the system initialization and "play_sound()" functions, I'll probably nev=
er
look at them again.  Out of sight, out of mind. ;^)

Of course, 99% of the time, I'm the only coder on a project.
So, sorry ;)

-bill!

Re: [Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound and NOSOUND

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Do, den 18.12.2003 schrieb Bill Kendrick um 09:34:
> On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 03:29:04PM -0500, Tobias Gläßer wrote:
> > We have following options.
> > -Switching from SDL_mixer to sth. that has less dependencies
> 
> I'm not familiar with 'sth'.

sth. = something :)

>  I'm really opposed to switching from SDL_mixer,
> though, since it's why I fell in love with SDL in the first place.
> It's also VERY popular, well-known, and comes with pretty much all distros.

The sound effects in supertux don't sound like they should. When I play
them with something like xmms they sound different, so I conclude, that
SDL_mixer is at least bad in playing .wav files.

You are right. There are SDL_mixer packages for nearly every major
distro.

> > -Creating fake functions, which do nothing, if someone don't wants to
> > link against SDL_mixer. (Just a idea, I dunno if that is 100% possible
> > ;) )
> 
> Defined with #define?  ;)  Heheheheheh

There would be only one remaining #ifndef, which would lead to much
cleaner code.

> 
> <snip>
> > And in my point of view a runtime option is much better here, since the
> > most people will install a RPM or something like that.
> 
> Assumign we find someone who will build RPMs for us at each release ;)
> But yeah.  I am kind of thinking as though it were still 1998-1999 :)
> 
> 
> <snip> 
> > Greetz... (I'm going to view 'Lord of the Rings' today!)
> 
> Cool!  I hear they throw the ring into the lava.  Heheheh ;)
> (It's hard to spoil a movie based on such an old book ;)

Heh. Yepp, they actually melt the ring. :)

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

Re: [Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound and NOSOUND

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 03:29:04PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
> We have following options.
> -Switching from SDL_mixer to sth. that has less dependencies

I'm not familiar with 'sth'.  I'm really opposed to switching from SDL_mi=
xer,
though, since it's why I fell in love with SDL in the first place.
It's also VERY popular, well-known, and comes with pretty much all distro=
s.


> -Creating fake functions, which do nothing, if someone don't wants to
> link against SDL_mixer. (Just a idea, I dunno if that is 100% possible
> ;) )

Defined with #define?  ;)  Heheheheheh


<snip>
> And in my point of view a runtime option is much better here, since the
> most people will install a RPM or something like that.

Assumign we find someone who will build RPMs for us at each release ;)
But yeah.  I am kind of thinking as though it were still 1998-1999 :)


<snip>=20
> Greetz... (I'm going to view 'Lord of the Rings' today!)

Cool!  I hear they throw the ring into the lava.  Heheheh ;)
(It's hard to spoil a movie based on such an old book ;)

-bill!

Re: [Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound and NOSOUND

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Do, den 18.12.2003 schrieb Duong-Khang NGUYEN um 09:05:
> Hi there,
> 
> I think that the use of "#define NOSOUND" is justified by the fact that some 
> advanced users don't want the sound support compiled in as Bill said. So if 
> we do not provide that compile time define anymore, we get the sound support 
> compiled in all the time. 

The only argument for #define NOSOUND until now is, that some users
maybe don't want to install SDL_mixer and its dependencies.

We have following options.
-Switching from SDL_mixer to sth. that has less dependencies
-Creating fake functions, which do nothing, if someone don't wants to
link against SDL_mixer. (Just a idea, I dunno if that is 100% possible
;) )
-And more that I don't know of. 

> In this case we will get rid of the NOSOUND #define but the sound support is 
> compiled in anyway. And the user can still disable the sound with 
> --disable-sound.

Yepp, this is a common way in a lot of games. The most users will
install a RPM or DEB and packagers will enable sound
in RPMs and DEBs, of course.

> 
> The problem is that we can not provide the compile time #define NOSOUND and 
> then ignore it in the codes. It's just not logical :-D. You guys, have to 
> decide either we let the user the ability to choose to compile the sound 
> support or they have the sound support compiled in "forever :-)"

Yes, you got the point. There are two ways crossing each other.
Compiling with or without sound support or giving a run time option for
this.
If we don't choose one way and drop the other one, all users will be
confused.
And in my point of view a runtime option is much better here, since the
most people will install a RPM or something like that.

> >Tobias GlÀßer (who comes from C++ and sees #define as his enemy ;) )
> 
> Hmm, I think "#define" fits some programming needs just like the "goto" 
> command. That's why they're still around. You, Tobias, must have had a dark 
> time with "#define"s :-D

'#define's are OK for some special needs and have their deserved place
esspecially in C. But '#define's should definitivly not be placed, where
runtime decicions/options would fit better.
And last but not least I red a few advanced C++ books, which told me
again and again how satanic '#define's are. :)

Greetz... (I'm going to view 'Lord of the Rings' today!)

Tobias Gläßer

Re: [Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound and NOSOUND

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 03:05:18PM +0100, Duong-Khang NGUYEN wrote:
> The problem is that we can not provide the compile time #define NOSOUND=
 and=20
> then ignore it in the codes. It's just not logical :-D. You guys, have =
to=20
> decide either we let the user the ability to choose to compile the soun=
d=20
> support or they have the sound support compiled in "forever :-)"

I see no reason to take it out!  It doesn't impact anything, and simply
provides an additional useful option to people at compile time.

What if this gets ported to some bizarre handheld game system that doesn'=
t
have good sound?  Or SDL_mixer just didn't get ported to it yet, because
of some other dependecies.  No reason to make other people's work harder!


> >Tobias Gl=C3?=C3=9Fer (who comes from C++ and sees #define as his enem=
y ;) )

Hehe - #defines got Vectoroids running on two PDAs and the Sega Dreamcast=
,
BTW. ;^)


-bill!

[Super-tux-devel] --disable-sound and NOSOUND

[Duong-Khang N. <neo...@us...>]

Hi there,

I think that the use of "#define NOSOUND" is justified by the fact that som=
e=20
advanced users don't want the sound support compiled in as Bill said. So if=
=20
we do not provide that compile time define anymore, we get the sound suppor=
t=20
compiled in all the time.=20

In this case we will get rid of the NOSOUND #define but the sound support i=
s=20
compiled in anyway. And the user can still disable the sound with=20
=2D-disable-sound.

The problem is that we can not provide the compile time #define NOSOUND and=
=20
then ignore it in the codes. It's just not logical :-D. You guys, have to=20
decide either we let the user the ability to choose to compile the sound=20
support or they have the sound support compiled in "forever :-)"

>Tobias Gl=C3=A4=C3=9Fer (who comes from C++ and sees #define as his enemy =
;) )

Hmm, I think "#define" fits some programming needs just like the "goto"=20
command. That's why they're still around. You, Tobias, must have had a dark=
=20
time with "#define"s :-D

PS: PLEASE guys give a correct subject to your posts. I'm lost beetween all=
=20
the "RE: something" messages

Re: [Super-tux-devel] TODO for supertux-0.0.5

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 11:45:37PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
> - Complete the 2nd level.

One comment on the 2nd level is that it's supposed to be Australia.
If you look at the various "level" data files I committed recently
(and the level names character array that I hence REMOVED from the
source code), you'll see that the game moves across the globe.

One thing I think should maybe happen, to make the game more fun and
last longer, is to have 2 to 4 levels in each local.  Kind of like
the original Super Mario Bros's "World 1-1", "World 1-2", etc.

There were four 'levels' to each of the 8 'worlds,' with the last level
of each being the castle, usually.


> - Scrolling back should be possible.

Ah!  I disagree!  Please realize that this game is an homage to
the original Super Mario Bros on the Nintendo.  There WAS no scrolling
back.  (If you died, you would be returned to the beginning of the level,
or the halfway point, if you managed to get that far.)

Part of the fun of the original Super Mario was that it was not just an
effort to stomp bad guys, maneuver terrain, and collect treasure (and
thus one-ups) on the way, but it was a RACE AGAINST TIME!

Missed something behind you?  TOO BAD!  KEEP RUNNING! ;)  Who knows WHAT
tortue is being done to Gown up in Redmond?!  Maybe she's being forced
ot use Microsoft Bob!  ;^)


> - FIX the FIXMEs.
> - Improve documentation.
>=20
> Comments and further suggestions are appreciated.

Going back to the level scheme, notice I also included a world map graphi=
c
in the data directory of the game. :^)  I was thinking of displaying that=
,
with little dots or lines, between each level.

Though I realize now that each 'locale' (Antarctica, Australia, etc.)
should be multiple levels, so it should really be between those 'worlds',
I guess.  (But, IMO, no reason to show it at the beginning of the game.
Leave it as a neat suprise for the player, and use it to map their progre=
ss.
If they just began the game, they've made no progress... no point to show=
 it!)

:)

-bill!
bi...@ne...                           Got kids?  Get Tux Pa=
int!=20
http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/       http://newbreedsoftware.com/tuxpa=
int/

Re: [Super-tux-devel] few updates to README and TODO

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

[ I keep forgetting to reply-to-[L]ist in Mutt!  Sorry for breakting
  threads, and sorry for the duplicate emails, Tobias :^( ]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 11:20:12PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
>=20
> The level file structure is simple. I already have written a documented
> about it. For some reason Bill didn't commit it to CVS. I'll take
> a second look at it and commit it then.

I've gotten in the habit, lately, of not putting tons of documentation
in the root of my package tarballs.  And instead, sticking them in a "doc=
s"
subfolder.

I wanted to do that, before I started putting lots of non-end-user
documentation (stuff more for the developers) in the archive.
In Tux Paint, for example, I have a file called "PNG.txt" under "docs"
that explains the PNG formast, and what software one can get.
Something end users /usually/ don't care about.


This also has the advantage that packagers can say "throw docs/* into
/usr/share/docs/supertux/", and now have to do it one file at a time,
so to speak.


Sorry I didn't get around to it.

:)

-bill!

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Disable-sound and help command-line options

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Wed, Dec 17, 2003 at 11:07:54PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> I like the idea behind your patch.
> But I would even say we should completly get rid of the NOSOUND
> #define and only use the --disable-sound solution.

I always like providing "NOSOUND" as a compile-time option, because some
people don't have sound cards (lame, I know), and might not want to be
bothered to install SDL_mixer (and its dependencies, like SMPEG,
if that's still how things are).


> If you send a 2nd patch, that is based on this idea,
> I would be glad to integrate it into CVS. :)
>=20
> Greetz...
>=20
> Tobias Gl=E4=DFer (who comes from C++ and sees #define as his enemy ;) =
)

Ooooh :)  C++, huh?  Maybe THAT'S it? ;) ;)

Hehe...

BTW, I'd like to suggest a patch that sticks Tobias's name on the title
screen, since he's doing so much work on this project now. :)
(And kind of resurrected it for me :) )

-bill!

[Super-tux-devel] TODO for supertux-0.0.5

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

- Complete the 2nd level.
- Scrolling back should be possible.
- FIX the FIXMEs.
- Improve documentation.

Comments and further suggestions are appreciated.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer
-- 

Re: [Super-tux-devel] few updates to README and TODO

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Mi, den 17.12.2003 schrieb Duong-Khang NGUYEN um 11:13:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have just read the message from Bill Kendrick about a level editor. It could 
> be an interesting feature. However, in order to write such an editor, people 
> have to know the level file structure. And currently, there's no document 
> about it yet. I think that Bill Kendrick is the best person who can achieve 
> this work quickly.
> 
> Sincerely,

A small LEVELDESIGN file is in CVS now.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer

-- 

Re: [Super-tux-devel] few updates to README and TODO

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Mi, den 17.12.2003 schrieb Duong-Khang NGUYEN um 11:13:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have just read the message from Bill Kendrick about a level editor. It could 
> be an interesting feature. However, in order to write such an editor, people 
> have to know the level file structure. And currently, there's no document 
> about it yet. I think that Bill Kendrick is the best person who can achieve 
> this work quickly.
> 
> Sincerely,

The level file structure is simple. I already have written a documented
about it. For some reason Bill didn't commit it to CVS. I'll take
a second look at it and commit it then.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer
-- 

Re: [Super-tux-devel] NBS Feedback - Super Tux

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Am Di, den 16.12.2003 schrieb Bill Kendrick um 19:33:
> ----- Forwarded message from Bryce -----
> 
> Product: Super Tux - 
> OS:      linux - Mandrake 9.2
> 
> My kids have been playing SuperTux for the past couple weeks and absolutely love it.  My son, 5, keeps saying \\\"Dad, I wish the computer would make the rest of the game so we could keep on playing.\\\"  So, kudos on a fun game, and keep up the great work. By the way, if you create a level editor for SuperTux, I know two kids who will be glued for hours making their own levels, and loving every minute of it.  I guess that\\\'s one way to get them hooked on programming. Thanks for your hard work on this project, and for sharing it with us. 
> 
> ----- End forwarded message -----
> 
> :^)
:^)	

Creating a leveleditor would be relativly easy. :)
But I think it's easy enough with the levelfiles for now.

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer
-- 

Re: [Super-tux-devel] Disable-sound and help command-line options

[Tobias <tob...@gm...>]

Hi,

I like the idea behind your patch.
But I would even say we should completly get rid of the NOSOUND
#define and only use the --disable-sound solution.

If you send a 2nd patch, that is based on this idea,
I would be glad to integrate it into CVS. :)

Greetz...

Tobias Gläßer (who comes from C++ and sees #define as his enemy ;) )

Am Mi, den 17.12.2003 schrieb Duong-Khang NGUYEN um 16:41:
> Support for "--disable-sound" and "--help" command-line options
-- 

[Super-tux-devel] Disable-sound and help command-line options

[Duong-Khang N. <neo...@us...>]

Support for "--disable-sound" and "--help" command-line options

[Super-tux-devel] few updates to README and TODO

[Duong-Khang N. <neo...@us...>]

Hi all,

I have just read the message from Bill Kendrick about a level editor. It could 
be an interesting feature. However, in order to write such an editor, people 
have to know the level file structure. And currently, there's no document 
about it yet. I think that Bill Kendrick is the best person who can achieve 
this work quickly.

Sincerely,

[Super-tux-devel] NBS Feedback - Super Tux

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

----- Forwarded message from Bryce -----

Product: Super Tux - 
OS:      linux - Mandrake 9.2

My kids have been playing SuperTux for the past couple weeks and absolutely love it.  My son, 5, keeps saying \\\"Dad, I wish the computer would make the rest of the game so we could keep on playing.\\\"  So, kudos on a fun game, and keep up the great work. By the way, if you create a level editor for SuperTux, I know two kids who will be glued for hours making their own levels, and loving every minute of it.  I guess that\\\'s one way to get them hooked on programming. Thanks for your hard work on this project, and for sharing it with us. 

----- End forwarded message -----

:^)

-- 
bi...@ne...                           Got kids?  Get Tux Paint! 
http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/       http://newbreedsoftware.com/tuxpaint/

[Super-tux-devel] supertux patch from 0.0.4 to 0.0.5

[Duong-Khang N. <neo...@us...>]

Hi there,

This is a patch made from the supertux download version 0.0.4 and the CVS 
version 0.0.5. I think this can help the users who are not familar with the 
CVS.

It is made with GNU "diff" version 2.8.4

Re: [Super-tux-devel] DATA_PREFIX crap

[Bill K. <nb...@so...>]

On Thu, Dec 11, 2003 at 08:42:32PM -0500, Tobias Gl=E4=DFer wrote:
> Hi,
>=20
> I think, our next step, before implementing anything else,
> should definitivly be to eliminate the DATA_PREFIX crap.
> Hard coding file paths into the Code is a very ugly programming
> practise (sorry Bill :^)).

Hermmm.  :^(  I use it a lot, and it really helps packages (e.g., folks
from Debian, people who make RPMs, etc.) to put things where they need it.

Programmatically searching for it could fail.  Why can't the program KNOW
where the files are?!

And putting it in something like "~/.supertuxrc" doesn't make sense,
because then only one person would be able to successfully play the game!=
!!


Having a command-line option might be okay, but really, all of my other
games do this, and have been successfully packaged for various distros
(Debian, RedHat, Slackware) and OSes (Windows, Mac OS, OS X, BeOS, etc.)

So, I guess I'm not compelled quite yet. ;^)

-bill!