seq24-users — A place for seq24 users to ask questions and share ideas.

Re: [seq24-users] ALSA MIDI Handling

[Esben S. <b0...@es...>]

"Rob Buse" <rc...@fi...> writes:

> In the next version you will be able to specify that you want to
> handle all the connection stuff yourself.

;)

> LASH will also be supported in this mode.

So very excellent. Thank you.

-- 
Esben Stien is b0ef@e     s      a             
         http://www. s     t    n m
          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
          [sip|iax]:   e     e 
           jid:b0ef@    n     n

Re: [seq24-users] ALSA MIDI Handling

[Esben S. <b0...@es...>]

Esben Stien <b0...@es...> writes:

> Why is there an internal management system when no other ALSA apps,
> except rosegarden, has it?

The CVS of rosegarden now allows external management.

-- 
Esben Stien is b0ef@e     s      a             
         http://www. s     t    n m
          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
          [sip|iax]:   e     e 
           jid:b0ef@    n     n

Re: [seq24-users] ALSA MIDI Handling

[Rob B. <rc...@fi...>]

In the next version you will be able to specify that you want to handle
all the connection stuff yourself.  seq24 will just open up however many
output ports you want and you can connect them any way you wish.  LASH
will also be supported in this mode.

cheers
rob.


>
>> It would be nice if midi handling were left up to alsa.
>
>Someone posted a reply off list.
>
>The app has an internal ALSA MIDI management system which in my
>opinion, is a bad design.
>
>Any developers have any thoughts on this?.
>
>Why is there an internal management system when no other ALSA apps,
>except rosegarden, has it?
>
>--
>Esben Stien is b0ef@e     s      a
>         http://www. s     t    n m
>          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
>          [sip|iax]:   e     e
>           jid:b0ef@    n     n
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [seq24-users] ALSA MIDI Handling

[Esben S. <b0...@es...>]

Esben Stien <b0...@es...> writes:

> It would be nice if midi handling were left up to alsa.

Someone posted a reply off list. 

The app has an internal ALSA MIDI management system which in my
opinion, is a bad design.

Any developers have any thoughts on this?. 

Why is there an internal management system when no other ALSA apps,
except rosegarden, has it?

-- 
Esben Stien is b0ef@e     s      a             
         http://www. s     t    n m
          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
          [sip|iax]:   e     e 
           jid:b0ef@    n     n

[seq24-users] ALSA MIDI Handling

[Esben S. <b0...@es...>]

It would be nice if midi handling were left up to alsa.

-- 
Esben Stien is b0ef@e     s      a             
         http://www. s     t    n m
          irc://irc.  b  -  i  .   e/%23contact
          [sip|iax]:   e     e 
           jid:b0ef@    n     n

[seq24-users] why no loop when connected to jack transport?

[federico <xa...@in...>]

i have a question:
why seq24 ignores loop settings & markers when is connected to jack 
transport? it is a decision imposed by jack transport or by some other 
factor?

i know jack transport actually doesn't address the issue of looping...

however clients can set transport state and position (this is a more 
aggressive way of dealing with loops, probably this can be done only by 
the transport master).

alternatively, seq24 could keep an internal transport in sync with the 
real transport:
SEQ24_TICK = JT_TICK % (SEQ24_R - SEQ24_L);
where SEQ24_TICK is an internal counter,  JT_TICK is the jack transport, 
and (SEQ24_R - SEQ24_L) is the length of loop.

just an idea.. :)

<news>
whohoooo, seq24 t-shirt are arriving!
</news>

-- 
ciao
Federico

[seq24-users] tip for seq24:

[federico <xa...@in...>]

in the sequencer window, (shift?)clicking on a note would select all 
notes of the same pitch. (i saw this feature in some other sequencer i 
don't remember)

[seq24-users] problem having many windows open

[federico <xa...@in...>]

hello,

I noticed when editing a lot of sequences, it becomes hard to locate a 
sequencer window from the main window (i often leave all sequencer 
windows open).

from the main window, clicking edit on a sequence, if the sequencer 
window is already open, doesn't do anything.

a button that closes all the open windows would be pretty useful, since 
you need to close all the windows even if you want to rearrange the 
sequences with cut&paste.

-- 
ciao!
Federico

Re: [seq24-users] seq24-0.7.0 (sysex)

[federico <xa...@in...>]

Rob Buse ha scritto:

>well, I think it would be much better for the users to define it in the
>.seq24rc file or something like that.  I definatly don't want to
>hardcode these things.
>  
>
good! please don't hesitate to contact me if you need help, cause I 
implemented those features in other midi software already :)  (you can 
look in kmiditracker, i gave the author a little help to insert sysex 
message editor)

>>ouch! i think when defining sysex messages, there should be a
>>"reverse-resolution" of the sysex type, so that seq24 could recognize
>>that those sysex string is my bass cutoff.
>>    
>>
>
>yea, that would be the only way to do that.  It will be able to handle
>all known and unknown midi.  I'll have to put in a simple hex editor.
>
>All this is definatly going into the todo queue.  I'll be working on it.
>
>thanks
>rob
>
>
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>  
>

Re: [seq24-users] about 0.7.0

[<no...@fr...>]

Rob Buse a =E9crit :

>>1] check whether we find any exact matches for client/port/portname and
>>connect these.=20
>>
>>2a] on the remaining tracks (which have not been "resolved" during stag=
e
>>1]), check for name matches only and connect those..
>>
>>2b] like 2a, but use client/port id instead.
>>
>>or something similar. you get my drift. Whether to use 2a or 2b would
>>depend on a user setting..
>>   =20
>>
>
>excellent suggestions.  I'll put these in next release.
> =20
>

Very nice !

--

Re: [seq24-users] Total freezing

[akarl <fus...@co...>]

Rob Buse wrote:
> there really isn't any "safe" mode to speak of.  Does it bring the
> whole system down when you run it in gdb?  

Yes.

> Is it X crashing or are you
> getting a kernel panic ?  

The system freezes and I can't do anything but restart the machine 
(neither Ctrl-Alt-backspace nor Ctrl-Alt-delete work). Does that imply 
kernel panic?

> I would suspect your alsa drivers or something
> low level crashing.  The worst I have even seen seq24 do is segfault. 
> Can you still get to a console and kill seq24 ?  

The system freezes so of course not.

> Are you running seq24 as root with the --priority flag?

Yes, the same happens when I run seq24 as root with the priority flag. 
After a couple of minutes of playing the system freezes.


August

Re: [seq24-users] about 0.7.0

[Florian S. <mis...@gm...>]

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:37:52 -0400 (EDT)
"Rob Buse" <rc...@fi...> wrote:

[snip]
> another easy feature.  I'll put these in as well.

Great news! :) Thanks.

Regards,
Flo

-- 
Palimm Palimm!
http://tapas.affenbande.org

Re: [seq24-users] seq24-0.7.0 (sysex)

[Rob B. <rc...@fi...>]

>good! i also think those messages can be put in a new submenu called
>sysex (where the midi controllers are).
>the user should be able to put its own messages (even by adding some
>quoted strings and bytes to a C file) with a simple template, ie.:

well, I think it would be much better for the users to define it in the
.seq24rc file or something like that.  I definatly don't want to
hardcode these things.

>#define SYSEX_MAX 10
>
>struct sysex_message {
> char name[20];
> unsigned char message[SYSEX_MAX];
> int  offset_channel;
> int offset_param;
> int offset_value;
>};
>
>example[] =3D
>{
>  { "cutoff", {0xf0, 0x32, 0x31, 0x32, 0x00, 0xf7}, 2, 3, 4 },
>  { "resonance", {0xf0, 0x32, 0x31, 0x33, 0x00, 0xf7}, 2, 3, 4 },
>  { "lfo3 deep", {0xf0, 0x32, 0x31, 0x34, 0x00, 0xf7}, 2, 3, 4 }
>}
>
>we can collect and share all these parameters, so users can find their
>synth's parameters already in.

I think sharing .seq24rc files would be much better.  I would hate to
have the sysex menu pop up 600 different synths with 200 parameters each!

>ouch! i think when defining sysex messages, there should be a
>"reverse-resolution" of the sysex type, so that seq24 could recognize
>that those sysex string is my bass cutoff.

yea, that would be the only way to do that.  It will be able to handle
all known and unknown midi.  I'll have to put in a simple hex editor.

All this is definatly going into the todo queue.  I'll be working on it.

thanks
rob

Re: [seq24-users] seq24-0.7.0 (sysex)

[federico <xa...@in...>]

Rob Buse ha scritto:

>>>i was wondering if it is possible to implement System Exclusive MIDI
>>>      
>>>
>>messages(?).
>>    
>>
>
>currently the only thing that seq24 does is act as a thru for incoming
>sysex.
>
>  
>
>>>think that a SysEx message it is like a midi controller message, example:
>>>CC:   0xB# 0xPP 0xVV
>>>SysEx:  0xF0 0x32 0x2# 0xPP 0xVV 0xF7
>>>      
>>>
>
>Well, each device has such a different sysex format, I can not think of
>an easy way to support it.  Where should it go in the midi stream?  How
>should seq24 represent each block of sysex visually?  Does seq24 play
>  
>

i think they are the same as a control change, so they can be 
represented in the sequence data window

>the sysex each time though the loop?  I really can't think of any way
>  
>
yes, it should be played every time, like the midi controller messages

>to implement a sysex editor other than just a hex editor style.
>
>Maybe if the user specifies the sysex pattern ahead of time, and then the
>data editor will modify one byte out of that stream?
>  
>
good! i also think those messages can be put in a new submenu called 
sysex (where the midi controllers are).
the user should be able to put its own messages (even by adding some 
quoted strings and bytes to a C file) with a simple template, ie.:

#define SYSEX_MAX 10

struct sysex_message {
 char name[20];
 unsigned char message[SYSEX_MAX];
 int  offset_channel;
 int offset_param;
 int offset_value;
};

example[] =
{
  { "cutoff", {0xf0, 0x32, 0x31, 0x32, 0x00, 0xf7}, 2, 3, 4 },
  { "resonance", {0xf0, 0x32, 0x31, 0x33, 0x00, 0xf7}, 2, 3, 4 },
  { "lfo3 deep", {0xf0, 0x32, 0x31, 0x34, 0x00, 0xf7}, 2, 3, 4 }
}

we can collect and share all these parameters, so users can find their 
synth's parameters already in.

>And the VAL's can be edited with the mouse?
>  
>
yes! i think they should be act and look like normal controller 
messages, because they do the same function.

>
>  
>
>>what would happen if i load a midi file with sysex data in it? (ps. does
>>seq24 follows some standard for its format?)
>>will seq24 play the sysex strings?
>>    
>>
>
>seq24 uses the midi file standard. It will currently  just throw away
>sysex if found in the file.
>
>rob
>  
>
ouch! i think when defining sysex messages, there should be a 
"reverse-resolution" of the sysex type, so that seq24 could recognize 
that those sysex string is my bass cutoff.

example function:

int match_sysex_data(unsigned char* data)
{
    bool match;
    //cycle through user-defined messages (usermsg[])
    for(int id=0; id<MSG_COUNT; id++) {
       match = true;
       for(int i=0; i<SYSEX_MAX && data[i] != 0xf7; i++) {
          //compare byte-by-byte skipping variable bytes (chan, value)
          if(i != usermsg[id].offset_channel &&
             i != usermsg[id].offset_value) {
                match = match && (usermsg[id].message[i]==data[i]);
          }
       }
       if(match) return id;
    }
    return -1;
}

Re: [seq24-users] seq24-0.7.0 (sysex)

[Rob B. <rc...@fi...>]

> >i was wondering if it is possible to implement System Exclusive MIDI
>messages(?).

currently the only thing that seq24 does is act as a thru for incoming
sysex.

> >think that a SysEx message it is like a midi controller message, example:
> >CC:   0xB# 0xPP 0xVV
> >SysEx:  0xF0 0x32 0x2# 0xPP 0xVV 0xF7

Well, each device has such a different sysex format, I can not think of
an easy way to support it.  Where should it go in the midi stream?  How
should seq24 represent each block of sysex visually?  Does seq24 play
the sysex each time though the loop?  I really can't think of any way
to implement a sysex editor other than just a hex editor style.

Maybe if the user specifies the sysex pattern ahead of time, and then the
data editor will modify one byte out of that stream?

Such as
<Filter Cutoff> 0xf0 0x32 0x31 0x32 VAL 0xF7
<Filter Res> 0xf0 0x32 0x31 0x33 VAL 0xF7
<Envelope Attack> 0xf0 0x32 0x31 0x34  VAL 0xF7

Then the editor can display those in the event menu under a sysex
submenu.  And the VAL's can be edited with the mouse?


>what would happen if i load a midi file with sysex data in it? (ps. does
>seq24 follows some standard for its format?)
>will seq24 play the sysex strings?

seq24 uses the midi file standard. It will currently  just throw away
sysex if found in the file.

rob

Re: [seq24-users] about 0.7.0

[Rob B. <rc...@fi...>]

>I second this though i think the best would probably be a combination of
>those: Save both alsa seq client and port id and also the port name.
>When starting up, do somethign like this:
>
>1] check whether we find any exact matches for client/port/portname and
>connect these.=20
>
>2a] on the remaining tracks (which have not been "resolved" during stage
>1]), check for name matches only and connect those..
>
>2b] like 2a, but use client/port id instead.
>
>or something similar. you get my drift. Whether to use 2a or 2b would
>depend on a user setting..

excellent suggestions.  I'll put these in next release.

>It would be cool to be able to select the RT prio of seq24 when running
>in priority mode. Here's my reasoning:

another easy feature.  I'll put these in as well.

thanks florian.

cheers
rob

Re: [seq24-users] seq24-0.7.0

[federico <xa...@in...>]

uhm... i'm looking in the src directory.

i wonder if and where system exclusive should be transmitted.

in perform.cpp:513 perform::play() calls sequence::play(), which calls 
sequence::put_event_on_bus() which calls mastermidibus::play(), which 
doesn't check for message type, so mastermidibus::sysex() is never called.
i am right?
who should call that function?
should mastermidibus::play() check for status==0xF0 and if so pass the 
control to ::sysex()?

in midibus.cpp:1203[mastermidibus::get_midi_event] i see that the check 
for EVENT_SYSEX is commented out (but mastermidibus::get_midi_event is 
for midi keyboard input?)

Re: [seq24-users] seq24-0.7.0

[federico <xa...@in...>]

 >> hey everyone!
 >>
 >> new release.
 >> lots of new features.
 >> check it out and let me know if it breaks anything.
 >>
 >> cheers!
 >> rob
 >
 >wonderful ! ! !  i was waiting for this for a long... :)
 >
 >i was wondering if it is possible to implement System Exclusive MIDI 
messages(?).
 >
 >i am a C programmer (but im pretty busy, keep in mind), but if you 
could give me some >guidelines i could try to write a patch or so.
 >
 >think that a SysEx message it is like a midi controller message, example:
 >CC:   0xB# 0xPP 0xVV
 >SysEx:  0xF0 0x32 0x2# 0xPP 0xVV 0xF7
 >
 ># is the channel number, PP is the parameter number, VV is the value 
number.
 >
 >i gave a quick look at event.cpp but not sure where midi message are 
transmitted and >if are needed other mods in other src-files

sorry, i was remembering something wrong...
i see in event.cpp support for system exclusive, and i see something in 
midibus.cpp too, but sysex are transmitted only by 
perform::input_func(), so i guess it is only for passing sysex 'thru'.

what would happen if i load a midi file with sysex data in it? (ps. does 
seq24 follows some standard for its format?)
will seq24 play the sysex strings?

if the answer is yes, i guess we only miss the 'View' part (thinking 
with the mvc pattern in mind...uhm..what about saving sysex?).
so, if i can suggest, i think a great improvement is to give the ability 
to insert sysex data (see above the comparision with a CC message), 
since on most hardware synthesizers this is the only way to control 
parameters :-|

what do you think about?

ciao
Federico

Re: [seq24-users] about 0.7.0

[Florian S. <mis...@gm...>]

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:51:57 +0200
Olivier Doar=E9 <no...@fr...> wrote:

> May i give you some small enhancements that would greatly improve my work=
flow
> with this tool? (maybe other users too)... ok let's go:
>=20
> - I often connect it with multiple soft synths. When reloading a session =
file,
> if the order of the synths has changed, i must reconfigure by hand each l=
oop...
> until next reloading... I don't know if it is the best idea but saving
> connections by port name instead of port number would probably work bette=
r.

I second this though i think the best would probably be a combination of
those: Save both alsa seq client and port id and also the port name.
When starting up, do somethign like this:

1] check whether we find any exact matches for client/port/portname and
connect these.=20

2a] on the remaining tracks (which have not been "resolved" during stage
1]), check for name matches only and connect those..

2b] like 2a, but use client/port id instead.

or something similar. you get my drift. Whether to use 2a or 2b would
depend on a user setting..

I also have another feature request for Rob:

It would be cool to be able to select the RT prio of seq24 when running
in priority mode. Here's my reasoning:

Imagine you use softsynths with jackd running at RT prio 70 and a rather
huge periodsize. Also imagine the softsynth takes a rather huge part of
the period time to actually produce its output. Let's say half the
period time. Now for this time seq24 will not get scheduled which will
introduce jitter.

As a midi sequencer is very leightweight (or at least it should be ;))
it makes much sense to give it a priority higher than i.e. jackd and all
its clients. I hacked the source and set the sched_priority to 80 and it
works just fine (jackd runs a t prio 70 here as i run a RP kernel and
all non soundcard/rtc irq handler threads run around prio 50).
Softsynths who give their midi receiption and timestamping thread a
higher prio then its jack audio thread will thus experience less jitter
when driven by the modified seq24.

Does that make sense? :)

Regards,
Flo

Besides that: Big ups to yuo rob, for giving us this awesome software!

--=20
Palimm Palimm!=20
http://tapas.affenbande.org

Re: [seq24-users] about 0.7.0

[Rob B. <rc...@fi...>]

olivier-

>- In the song editor, right-click on a track/loop name should let appear the
>same menu as a right-click on the corresponding loop in the main window
>(new/paste on an empty track and Edit/cut/copy and so on on an existing trac=
k).
>This way, it is not needed anymore to switch between the two windows.

0.7.1 Will have this ability.  I was going to put it in 0.7.0, but I
wanted to release sooner than later.

>- In the pianoroll editor, to add series of controllers you must click many
>times on the horizontal band of controller events. Maybe a click and drag co=
uld
>be a nice feature to add multiple controller events according to the "grid s=
nap"
>setting.

Something like this is also in the works.  It will probably be one the of
tool menu items.  Perhaps it will be "fill between events" or
something similar.

>- I often connect it with multiple soft synths. When reloading a session fil=
e,
>if the order of the synths has changed, i must reconfigure by hand each loop=
...
>until next reloading... I don't know if it is the best idea but saving
>connections by port name instead of port number would probably work better.

This still doesn't solve the problem of multiple instances of the same
application.  I find the only thing to do is make sure you launch your
applications in the same order each time.  there is always LADCCA, but
I'm not sure if I want to implement that yet.

>- Less important and more questionable : color setting for loops/tracks or m=
aybe
>a color depending on midi port ?

I'll have to look into doing this.  I'll put it on the list


cheers
rob

[seq24-users] about 0.7.0

[Olivier <no...@fr...>]

Hello Rob, hello seq24 users,

I just downloaded v0.7.0 and i must say it is a great release! Congratula=
tions,
thanks! This version greatly improve the workflow for people that use it =
as a
regular sequencer.

May i give you some small enhancements that would greatly improve my work=
flow
with this tool? (maybe other users too)... ok let's go:

- In the song editor, right-click on a track/loop name should let appear =
the
same menu as a right-click on the corresponding loop in the main window
(new/paste on an empty track and Edit/cut/copy and so on on an existing t=
rack).
This way, it is not needed anymore to switch between the two windows.

- In the pianoroll editor, to add series of controllers you must click ma=
ny
times on the horizontal band of controller events. Maybe a click and drag=
 could
be a nice feature to add multiple controller events according to the "gri=
d snap"
setting.

- I often connect it with multiple soft synths. When reloading a session =
file,
if the order of the synths has changed, i must reconfigure by hand each l=
oop...
until next reloading... I don't know if it is the best idea but saving
connections by port name instead of port number would probably work bette=
r.

- Less important and more questionable : color setting for loops/tracks o=
r maybe
a color depending on midi port ?

And thanks again,
--
Olivier

Re: [seq24-users] Total freezing

[Rob B. <rc...@fi...>]

there really isn't any "safe" mode to speak of.  Does it bring the
whole system down when you run it in gdb?  Is it X crashing or are you
getting a kernel panic ?  I would suspect your alsa drivers or something
low level crashing.  The worst I have even seen seq24 do is segfault.=20
Can you still get to a console and kill seq24 ?  Are you running seq24
as root with the --priority flag?

cheers
rob



>Hi all,
>
>Seq24 (version 0.7.0) freezes the entire computer some seconds after I
>play/record a song. Is there a way to run seq24 in some kind of safe
>mode so I can locate the problem and avoid total freezing? I run Fedora
>Core 4 on an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ with an Audiophile 24/96 sound card. I
>had the same problem with the previous version of Seq24.
>
>August
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
>September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
>Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA
>Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf
>_______________________________________________
>seq24-users mailing list
>seq...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/seq24-users

[seq24-users] Total freezing

[akarl <fus...@co...>]

Hi all,

Seq24 (version 0.7.0) freezes the entire computer some seconds after I 
play/record a song. Is there a way to run seq24 in some kind of safe 
mode so I can locate the problem and avoid total freezing? I run Fedora 
Core 4 on an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ with an Audiophile 24/96 sound card. I 
had the same problem with the previous version of Seq24.

August

Re: [seq24-users] seq24-0.7.0

[federico <xa...@in...>]

Rob Buse ha scritto:

>hey everyone!
>
>new release.
>lots of new features.
>check it out and let me know if it breaks anything.
>
>cheers!
>rob
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>SF.Net email is Sponsored by the Better Software Conference & EXPO
>September 19-22, 2005 * San Francisco, CA * Development Lifecycle Practices
>Agile & Plan-Driven Development * Managing Projects & Teams * Testing & QA
>Security * Process Improvement & Measurement * http://www.sqe.com/bsce5sf
>_______________________________________________
>seq24-users mailing list
>seq...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/seq24-users
>
>  
>
wonderful ! ! !  i was waiting for this for a long... :)

i was wondering if it is possible to implement System Exclusive MIDI 
messages(?).

i am a C programmer (but im pretty busy, keep in mind), but if you could 
give me some guidelines i could try to write a patch or so.

think that a SysEx message it is like a midi controller message, example:
CC:   0xB# 0xPP 0xVV
SysEx:  0xF0 0x32 0x2# 0xPP 0xVV 0xF7

# is the channel number, PP is the parameter number, VV is the value number.

i gave a quick look at event.cpp but not sure where midi message are 
transmitted and if are needed other mods in other src-files

ciao
Federico

[seq24-users] seq24-0.7.0

[Rob B. <rc...@fi...>]

hey everyone!

new release.
lots of new features.
check it out and let me know if it breaks anything.

cheers!
rob