quesa-develop — Mailing list for Quesa development

Re: Even more on View Hints

[Kevin M. <mat...@ar...>]

Is this getting a bit whacky?  Isn't there a clean approach?

- K


On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 12:15:44 -0800, James W. Walker wrote:
> Roger Holmes <rog...@mi...> wrote:
> 
>> As we never actually create any objects of class 'Light', only
>> ambient, directional, spot and point lights,
>> would it be OK to redefine kQ3ShapeTypeLight to be something like
>> 'lghT' with a capital T or 'Lght' ?
> 
> I have some code that uses Q3Group_GetFirstPositionOfType and 
> Q3Group_GetNextPositionOfType with kQ3ShapeTypeLight, and that will 
> break if you redefine kQ3ShapeTypeLight.
> 
> Here's a possibility:  In e3fformat_3dmf_bin_readobject, add a 
> special case, that checks whether the object type is 'lght' and 
> changes it to something else like 'lghd'.
> -- 
>   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
>   <http://www.write-brain.com/>
> 
> 
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Re: Even more on View Hints

[James W. W. <ja...@fr...>]

Roger Holmes <rog...@mi...> wrote:

>As we never actually create any objects of class 'Light', only
>ambient, directional, spot and point lights,
>would it be OK to redefine kQ3ShapeTypeLight to be something like
>'lghT' with a capital T or 'Lght' ?

I have some code that uses Q3Group_GetFirstPositionOfType and 
Q3Group_GetNextPositionOfType with kQ3ShapeTypeLight, and that will 
break if you redefine kQ3ShapeTypeLight.

Here's a possibility:  In e3fformat_3dmf_bin_readobject, add a 
special case, that checks whether the object type is 'lght' and 
changes it to something else like 'lghd'.
-- 
   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
   <http://www.write-brain.com/>

Even more on View Hints

[Roger H. <rog...@mi...>]

Thanks for the clarification, but

Houston, we have a problem...


In the original QD3D.h kQ3ShapeTypeLight is defined as 'lght', so we  
naturally have the same in Quesa.h

In Apple's QuickDraw3D meta file specification ( a copy is still at
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/QuickTime/QD3D/ 
qd3dmetafile.6b.htm#pgfId=10116)
and also in all the files produced by QD3D which have view hints, there  
is a 'Light Data' sub object, and its
type is also 'lght', so when I try to register it as a class it fails  
because there is already a class of that type registered.

So the whole process of reading the data in a container breaks down  
when I try to read any lights as they
all have this as a sub-object.

As we never actually create any objects of class 'Light', only ambient,  
directional, spot and point lights,
would it be OK to redefine kQ3ShapeTypeLight to be something like  
'lghT' with a capital T or 'Lght' ?

Roger.

Test, please ignore

[James W. W. <os...@jw...>]

Eariler today I was unable to post to this list.  SourceForge claims 
the problem is fixed, so I want to see if it really is.
--
<http://www.jwwalker.com/>

Re: CVS down?

[James W. W. <ja...@fr...>]

Peter Michelsen <Pet...@mi...> wrote:

>I have had the same problem, as well. I think it has been down since 
>the 9th on Feb.

It's up now.  From the SourceForge site status page:

(  2005-02-14 11:38:28 -  Project CVS Service )    As of 2005-02-09 
there was an outage  of anonymous CVS (tarballs, pserver-based CVS 
and ViewCVS) for  projects whose UNIX names start with the letters m, 
n, p, q, t,  y and z. This problem has since been resolved and the 
normal 5  hour sync delay will resume shortly.
-- 
   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
   <http://www.write-brain.com/>

Re: CVS down?

[Peter M. <Pet...@mi...>]

Hi all,

I have had the same problem, as well. I think it has been down since 
the 9th on Feb.

Peter.


On 16 Feb 2005, at 09:45, Stefan Huber wrote:

> Currently CVS don't seems to work for anonymous users.
>
> Stefan
>
>
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CVS down?

[Stefan H. <st...@to...>]

Currently CVS don't seems to work for anonymous users.

Stefan

Re: smoother with FPS turned on !?

[James W. W. <os...@jw...>]

On Feb 15, 2005, at 8:39 PM, Lars Jensen wrote:

> I just downloaded d20 for Mac and ran GeomTest in the Carbon folder. I
> switched to MultiBox and got a somewhat jerky frame rate (iMac G5 
> 1.8GHz,
> standard video card).
>
> Then I turned on Show FPS, and after a second or so, the rotation 
> became
> quite noticeably smoother.
>
> I wouldn't expect a noticeable difference at all, and I certainly 
> wouldn't
> expect it to get smoother with the extra computation/refreshing of the 
> title
> bar...

If you look at the code in QutMac.c, it makes sense.  With FPS display 
off, it sleeps for 1 tick on every call to WaitNextEvent.  This gives 
other processes some time, and makes it impossible to get more than 60 
FPS.  When you turn FPS display on, it starts hogging the processor as 
much as possible.
--
<http://www.jwwalker.com/>

Re: outdated version on quesa.org

[James W. W. <os...@jw...>]

On Feb 15, 2005, at 8:31 PM, Lars Jensen wrote:

> To whom it may concern: http://quesa.org says:
>
>   The latest release of Quesa is 1.6d18, released on 2003/08/15.
>
> which I believe is now out of date.

It's fixed now.
--
<http://www.jwwalker.com/>

d20 kills

[Lars J. <lar...@rc...>]

I am getting MUCH better results from d20 than d18, BTW...the main problems
I was having -- horrendous scissoring and wildly varing light levels as I
rotated the camera -- have been tamed to the point that things feel on a par
with QD3D. My frame rates seem better too. It inspires me to get back to
work on my game projects...great job!

lj

smoother with FPS turned on !?

[Lars J. <lar...@rc...>]

I just downloaded d20 for Mac and ran GeomTest in the Carbon folder. I
switched to MultiBox and got a somewhat jerky frame rate (iMac G5 1.8GHz,
standard video card).

Then I turned on Show FPS, and after a second or so, the rotation became
quite noticeably smoother.

I wouldn't expect a noticeable difference at all, and I certainly wouldn't
expect it to get smoother with the extra computation/refreshing of the title
bar...

I believe I can see this using the Quesa logo as well, but it's more subtle.
I think I see the same thing with the Quesa logo in Classic, but MultiBox is
so slow on Classic that it's hard to tell.

This reminds me of a bug I filed long ago with REALbasic, where if I updated
some text items onscreen, the animation got smoother. Never got to the
bottom of that one...

lj

outdated version on quesa.org

[Lars J. <lar...@rc...>]

To whom it may concern: http://quesa.org says:

  The latest release of Quesa is 1.6d18, released on 2003/08/15.

which I believe is now out of date.

lj

Re: More on View Hints

[James W. W. <ja...@fr...>]

Roger Holmes <rog...@mi...> wrote:

>Should I be calling Q3File_ReadObject inside e3viewhints_read?

I would say so.

>For objects like the attribute set it seems the obvious way to go
>but things like the ImageClearColour does not generate an
>object. Should I be reading the 4 byte code manually and
>if its something like 'imcc' reading the data? What about
>when its 'attr', should I backspace 4 bytes and then call
>Q3File_ReadObject?

I think that ImageClearColor (not ImageClearColour :-)) should 
generate an object.  This would be the kind of object that appears 
only fleetingly during 3DMF reading, like the Caps object 
(kQ3ObjectTypeGeometryCaps).  If you look at 
E3Read_3DMF_Geom_Cylinder, for instance, it calls Q3File_ReadObject 
to get child objects, and if the child is of type 
kQ3ObjectTypeGeometryCaps, it extracts the caps flag, puts the caps 
flag in the cylinder data, and disposes the caps object.

>How does this all work with text 3DMF files? The 4 byte
>codes are not there for these, do I need a different
>e3viewhints_read for text? Or do a test to see which is
>being read? Or have I totally missed the point (most
>likely as nothing seems to fit properly).

You'd register ImageClearColor as a class, and its read method would, 
I suppose, use Q3Float32_Read to read the components of the color.
-- 
   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
   <http://www.write-brain.com/>

More on View Hints

[Roger H. <rog...@mi...>]

Should I be calling Q3File_ReadObject inside e3viewhints_read?

For objects like the attribute set it seems the obvious way to go
but things like the ImageClearColour does not generate an
object. Should I be reading the 4 byte code manually and
if its something like 'imcc' reading the data? What about
when its 'attr', should I backspace 4 bytes and then call
Q3File_ReadObject?

How does this all work with text 3DMF files? The 4 byte
codes are not there for these, do I need a different
e3viewhints_read for text? Or do a test to see which is
being read? Or have I totally missed the point (most
likely as nothing seems to fit properly).

Can someone please explain.

Roger.

View Hints

[Roger H. <rog...@mi...>]

View Hint objects contain cameras, lights, renderers etc.

As far as I can see there is no code to read these.

If Peter and I implement View Hints and ignore those items
contained inside which we are not interested in, will this
cause anyone a problem?

Roger.

Re: At last! I have finished the Quesa changes.

[James W. W. <ja...@fr...>]

Roger Holmes <rog...@mi...> wrote:

>As I have changed almost every single file in Quesa, I think jumping 
>into a release would
>not be right. Peter and I will be producing a new version on 
>Interiors and Modeller and a
>new product (oh alright, it was part 3D World on OS8/9 previously) 
>called animation tools,
>and that will at least be going through a short QA session, so how 
>about we see what bugs
>that turns up and then when any bugs are fixed, we issue 1.7 final?

OK, sounds good.
-- 
   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
   <http://www.write-brain.com/>

texture caching fixes

[James W. W. <ja...@fr...>]

I just made some changes to the way the interactive renderer caches 
textures.  Here's why:  We were caching the texture object, but 
invalidating it if either the texture object or the texture shader 
had a change in edit index.  This meant that if your scene contained 
two texture shaders using the same texture object, and the shaders 
happened to have different edit index, then the texture cache would 
always be invalid and the texture would be reloaded on every frame. 
Also, if the two shaders had different UV transforms, then that 
difference would not be maintained.
-- 
   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
   <http://www.write-brain.com/>

Re: .3ds import

[Roger H. <rog...@mi...>]

On Friday, February 11, 2005, at 09:19 PM, Frank Condello wrote:

>> ...Does 3DMF and 3DS use different clockwise/anti-clockwise rule or 
>> left hand/right hand rule.
>
> It's more a rotation that handedness; Quesa uses +Y up with -Z into 
> the screen, and 3DS uses +Z up with +Y into the screen. So all you 
> need is a -90 degree rotation around the X axis to convert 3DS 
> coordinates to Quesa coordinates.
>

So it sounds like the X negation was indeed a bug. Unless someone 
objects soon I will check in the change.

Roger.

Re: At last! I have finished the Quesa changes.

[Roger H. <rog...@mi...>]

On Saturday, February 12, 2005, at 01:23 AM, James W. Walker wrote:

> Kevin Matthews <mat...@ar...> wrote:
>
>> Still, what's the harm of going through some letters?
>>
>> I like the sound of 1.7b1.  After it has settled...
>
> I guess I'm just afraid that we'll revert to the previous pattern and 
> not release anything for months after 1.7b1.
>

As I have changed almost every single file in Quesa, I think jumping 
into a release would
not be right. Peter and I will be producing a new version on Interiors 
and Modeller and a
new product (oh alright, it was part 3D World on OS8/9 previously) 
called animation tools,
and that will at least be going through a short QA session, so how 
about we see what bugs
that turns up and then when any bugs are fixed, we issue 1.7 final?

Roger.

Re: At last! I have finished the Quesa changes.

[James W. W. <ja...@fr...>]

Kevin Matthews <mat...@ar...> wrote:

>Still, what's the harm of going through some letters?
>
>I like the sound of 1.7b1.  After it has settled...

I guess I'm just afraid that we'll revert to the previous pattern and 
not release anything for months after 1.7b1.
-- 
   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
   <http://www.write-brain.com/>

Re: At last! I have finished the Quesa changes.

[Kevin M. <mat...@ar...>]

Still, what's the harm of going through some letters?  

I like the sound of 1.7b1.  After it has settled...

QA is a methodology...

best wishes,

K

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 16:14:12 -0800, James W. Walker wrote:
> Roger Holmes <rog...@mi...> wrote:
> 
>> So 1.7b1 maybe?
> 
> I don't get the impression that there are a lot of folks who are 
> going to be testing and reporting bugs other than those of us who 
> keep up to date with CVS.  If I'm right, I would suggest forgetting 
> the letter, and just go to 1.7.
> -- 
>   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
>   <http://www.write-brain.com/>
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
> _______________________________________________
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> Que...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/quesa-develop
> 

Re: At last! I have finished the Quesa changes.

[Lane R. <la...@if...>]

on Fri, Feb 11, 2005 James W. Walker may have said:

>>So 1.7b1 maybe?
>
>I don't get the impression that there are a lot of folks who are 
>going to be testing and reporting bugs other than those of us who 
>keep up to date with CVS.  If I'm right, I would suggest forgetting 
>the letter, and just go to 1.7.

I'm all for full releases; but the code should get a good round of
testing before calling it 1.7 (as then people assume it's "safe", tested,
etc.) But, I'd think it better to release this as a beta if it will take
over a week to make sure everyone is comfortable calling it a "final" 1.7
release.

I guess I need to see how the current code handles nano/bugdom ...

Lane Roathe
President          Ideas From the Deep        <http://www.ifd.com>
___________________________________________________________________
If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat?

Re: At last! I have finished the Quesa changes.

[James W. W. <ja...@fr...>]

Roger Holmes <rog...@mi...> wrote:

>So 1.7b1 maybe?

I don't get the impression that there are a lot of folks who are 
going to be testing and reporting bugs other than those of us who 
keep up to date with CVS.  If I'm right, I would suggest forgetting 
the letter, and just go to 1.7.
-- 
   James W. Walker, ScriptPerfection Enterprises, Inc.
   <http://www.write-brain.com/>

Re: .3ds import

[Frank C. <dev...@ch...>]

On 11-Feb-05, at 11:13 AM, Roger Holmes wrote:

> ...Does 3DMF and 3DS use different clockwise/anti-clockwise rule or 
> left hand/right hand rule.

It's more a rotation that handedness; Quesa uses +Y up with -Z into the 
screen, and 3DS uses +Z up with +Y into the screen. So all you need is 
a -90 degree rotation around the X axis to convert 3DS coordinates to 
Quesa coordinates.

Frank.
------------
<http://developer.chaoticbox.com>

.3ds import

[Roger H. <rog...@mi...>]

Before my next big project I have been asked to look at .3ds import 
into a 3DMF document.

I compiled up Quesa's 3ds plugin, put it into 3D World and contrary to 
what Peter had told
me, it almost works.

I tried a model of a wooden toy train downloaded from '3DNuts' . By a 
stroke of luck I
happened to choose a model which was not symmetrical. I had to set the 
Mac file type
to 3DMF in Resorcerer, but it read in. There was no colour and some of 
the wheels were
missing, it was a mirror image and it was 'inside out' i.e. a light 
shining from above illuminated
the bottom surface.

Looking at the code I found inside parse3DSChunk in case 
'kChunkVertList' that were three lines
which set the output x to minus the input x, the output y to the input 
z, and the output z to minus
the input y, like this:

					pointList[n].x = -vertex.x;
					pointList[n].y = vertex.z;
					pointList[n].z = -vertex.y;

If I remove the minus sign on the x coordinate I find two of my 
problems disappear, the model
is no longer mirrored and it is no longer inside out so that the sun 
shines on the top of the train.

Should I check in the change? Are there any other corresponding changes 
needed? Does 3DMF
and 3DS use different clockwise/anti-clockwise rule or left hand/right 
hand rule.

Any thoughts on why some of the objects do not appear?

Roger.