peep-develop — Mailing list for the usage and development of Peep

Re: [Peep-develop] Shoutcast/Icecast Hookup

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

|In my dreams I'd be able to get peep up and running on the server and
|then hook up its midi or other software synth to a shoutcast/icecast
|stream. Any time I wanted to check in on the server I'd just punch up
|the stream from Winamp or any one of the other players that can handle
|these streams.

there was a begining of discussion at :


http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=1050475&forum_id=4626


bye


-- 
xavier

[Peep-develop] peep server not working after flood / segfault

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

hello,

by flooding the server with events,

it does not work any more... 
the packets are received, analysed,
but not played... (the queue is full ?)
sometimes the server segfault too.

and when you stop it (^C), it segfault instead
of clean stop...

here is the setup :

server :

event
  name test
  path misc/events/bells
end event


client :


client logparser
  class main
  port 1999
  default
    groups  default
    logfile /var/log/all.log,/var/log/messages,/home/xavier/system/procmail/log,/var/log/exim/mainlog,/tmp/test
  end default
  config
    events
      # Name      Group     Location     Priority   Notification   Pattern      Hosts
        test    default         128             0       info            "test : " localhost



starting :

~/work/projects/peep-0.5.x/server/peepd --config=/usr/local/etc/peep/peep.conf --pidfile=/tmp/peep.pid --snd-device=/dev/dsp --nodaemon

(debug 2 at compile time)

perl -Iblib/lib ./bin/logparser --config=/usr/local/etc/peep/peep.conf --nodaemon --debug=5 --server=localhost --port=2001 --class=main --noautodiscovery



testing procedure :

 i=1;while [ $i -le 20 ] ;do i=$[ i + 1 ];echo "test : $i" >> /tmp/test;done

(try more than 20 if it doesnt work)
logparser is responding correctly.
the server does not play any further events....


can you reproduce it ?

thanks

bye


-- 
xavier

Re: [Peep-develop] Shoutcast/Icecast Hookup

[Collin S. <col...@co...>]

On Sun, 2003-07-20 at 19:42, August wrote:

> In my dreams I'd be able to get peep up and running on the server and
> then hook up its midi or other software synth to a shoutcast/icecast
>  Any time I wanted to check in on the server I'd just punch up
> the stream from Winamp or any one of the other players that can handle
> these streams.

I am not that familiar with *cast, but I LOVE the idea.  There is
another issue that I've heard mentioned in that the clients (with the
monitors) need to reach the server (someone's workstation or laptop)
which may be behind a firewall.  Streaming would have the added benefit
of allowing someone to proxy out through a firewall.

Michael is far more familiar with the sound architecture, so I'll foist
the question off to him.

Cheers,

-Collin

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Collin Starkweather, Ph.D.        col...@co...
University of Colorado                     Department of Economics
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Peep-develop] Shoutcast/Icecast Hookup

[August <au...@au...>]

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A common issue that has prevented me and I imagine others from really
using peep is the client side.

Generally I like to keep things thick on the server (ie, sysadmin setup)
and thin on the client (ie, users can use a web browser or existing
software to get going.

In my dreams I'd be able to get peep up and running on the server and
then hook up its midi or other software synth to a shoutcast/icecast
stream. Any time I wanted to check in on the server I'd just punch up
the stream from Winamp or any one of the other players that can handle
these streams.

Other devs on the box could do the same thing, without jumping through
any hoops, I'd simply have it become a link they could click.

Is this possible? Is this probably? Is this way out in left field?

Looking to see how peep could become the laymans (or at least lazy
developers) tool for monitoring boxes.

- - August
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Re: [Peep-develop] peep's popularity problems

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

|There are several ways I think about this discussion.  The first is Peep
|into usage.  The second is the core intent of the project.  Finally,
|there are barriers to adoption.
|
|In terms of usage, I see Peep as filling a much different niche than
|nagios.  Nagios is the end-all-be-all of open source monitoring tools. 
|It's got everything including the kitchen sink.  It is meant for the
|data center.  If I were monitoring a facility with 1000 boxen and
|downtime on the oracle cluster would cost the business $10,000/hour, I
|would recommend nagios in a heartbeat.
|
|Peep, on the other hand, I see targeted at folks with smaller
|installations that are not necessarily mission-critical.  I have a
|server on campus, another in a local colocation facility, and one at
|home.  Peep is the perfect "size" for me:  Small, 

well, yes, you need a "couple" of perl modules, and you're in business.


|easy to install, and

well, you need a client AND a server.
nagios has only a server.


|easily configurable. 

well... i don't know. you need a client config, a server config...
(damn class identifier...)

would it be interesting to get the config from the server ?
that way, you only have to include the peep server ip on the 
command line, for every client... no more check every where to
set the config correctly... just an idea...

| And best of all:  It's much more fun than nagios! 

yup, that's why we all run it ! :-D

|But more on that later ....
|
|So in terms of who should we be looking to as potential adopters, I
|think it is more the recreational home user or sysadmin with a small
|number of servers.

agreed, until we find a ultimate usage.

|In terms of the core intent of the project, I see Peep as much as an art
|project than a monitoring tool.  So I would like to see, for example, a
|corresponding visual component, perhaps modeled on eXtace, and dockable
|panel applet.  I would like to promote themes and see what kind of
|things that folks come up with.  I would like to expand the sound
|library.  All these things are higher priority for me than writing more
|monitoring tools.  That's part of the reason I designed the client side
|to make it so easy to create custom clients.

that's good.

|Finally, there are barriers to practical adoption.  I would love to
|compile binaries of the clients (there's a new CPAN module to do that)
|get apt-get packages and RPMs put out, get something into a Gentoo (my
|latest fixation) portage tree, etc.  In other words, make it drop-dead
|simple to install Peep for the average Linux or *BSD user.

this is something to be done for better adoption, yes. packages.
with a good and working config. one day we'll make it to 
the debian weekly news (where new packages are announced), 
and bang ! 1 millions users more ! ;-)

|
|In addition to the ease of installation, I think folks have likely been
|dissuaded from it recently because the project stalled.  Typically one

yeah. agreed.

|I think if we got a smooth packaging system organized, released 0.5.0,
|and started posting themes and doing other things to signal continued
|interest in the project, we would see folks adopt it quite a bit more
|readily.

agreed.

|
|> 2 problems (maybe?) with peep :
|> 
|> - setting up the communication channels between hosts
|> part of the hassle is that for peep to work,
|> we need a peep client on each machine. 
|> means managing multiple peep configs, maybe it implies cvs....
|
|I see that as a common problem.  Even in the monitoring tools I have
|worked with professionally, monitoring large-scale deployments for
|clients such as the IRS and Qwest, pushing out configuration changes was
|a huge pain.  
|
|If you had the individual monitors "pull" a configuration, then there
|were possible security risks.  If configuration "pushes" were automated,
|that is a security risk.


hum. i see your point.
the pull method seems fine though, it could be a choice to the user.
currently peep has only one way to do it : a config on both side.
i use the same file for both the client and the server.
would it be hard to tell the client to pull the config of
the server ?


|With Peep, since I see it as a tool for smaller installations, I don't
|see the configuration issue as high on my list.  I would invite
|suggestions / code from anyone for whom this would be a major issue, but
|I doubt I'll get to it myself within the next few cycles.


ok. does the server has the config in memory ?
i think i could get the perl client to fetch it.
after all, it's perl.
would it be easy to code a little blurb on the server
to give the config if the client connects and sends 
a request for his config ?
(Michael ?)

|> - using sound 
|> we need to ease the processing. not many sound cards
|> thoses days accept multiple locks on /dev/dsp,
|> so we need to make it work with alsa and/or esd.
|> fyi, i'm using esd on my machines thoses days.
|> ppl don't want their /dev/dsp clogged all day by a program.
|> ppl want their im/irc alert working. (talking to much about
|> my self maybe ;-)
|> 
|> and i don't know, maybe our culture is to much sight-centric,
|> not really audiophile... audio is for entertainement (think
|> music) when i explain peep to people, they're smiling
|> when they learn that peep is sound based. 
|> "realtime monitoring tool" sounds cool. this is peep.
|> maybe ppl don't believe in sound. they believe in 
|> popups. blinking. visual. another power of peep
|> is that it's investigating another field yet
|> unutilized professionaly speaking : the ear.
|> (sound like i'm selling the lastest nonexistant dot com product.)
|> (our product is based on a totally unexploited technology,
|> multiply your productivity  !!)
|
|I agree that tying into esd or alsa would be nice.  I listen to XMMS all
|the time and have to turn off my monitoring when I do.
|
|> may be a visual output plugin might be a hooker for people ?
|
|Take a look at 
|
|  http://www.collinstarkweather.com/local/...
|
|I put together a quickie prototype of a visual output plugin using
|eXtace.  I think I'd like to revive that.

is the code on cvs ?
may be it should be...

it would be nice to put thoses images on the auralizer web pages
to "appeal" users. "see, we're working on it !!"


|I would disagree.  For the home user or a sysadmin of a small shop, it's
|much less intrusive than other monitoring systems which are sending out
|pages all the time or with which you have to take some action such as
|looking at a web page to figure out when something is down.  


for that, we need esd/alsa working, ppl want to hear the music...
is there a way to set the peep volume without changing the 
music volume ?


bye


-- 
xavier 

[Peep-develop] peep usage / network oddities

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

recently i've found a thing nagios couldnt catch.

a strange network odities.


when i receive a smtp connection, i hear a sound.
when exim is processing the message, i hear another sound.

there is 30 sec delay between both.

exim is indeed reply a ident connection.
takes 30sec to timeout.

so here is another "unique" usage of peep,

learning precisely how your network/app is working,

finding "hidden" stuff.


learning how fast your network answers the requests.

bye


-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

Re: [Peep-develop] kick start and working config

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 11:35:58AM -0600, Collin Starkweather wrote:
|On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 10:09, xavier renaut wrote:
|> here is a kick start and working config example for thoses
|> who want to test peep.
|


i think i'll add a KICKSTART file :
in peep-0.5.x/KICKSTART


what do you think ?

bye


-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

Re: [Peep-develop] archives of lists ?

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 03:56:14PM -0400, xavier renaut wrote:
|
|They are not available any more with sourceforge ?
|
|currently migrating or something ?
|
|-- 


http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=peep-develop


????


thanks


-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

[Peep-develop] archives of lists ?

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

They are not available any more with sourceforge ?

currently migrating or something ?

-- 
xavier

Re: [Peep-develop] kick start and working config

[Collin S. <col...@co...>]

On Fri, 2003-07-18 at 10:09, xavier renaut wrote:
> here is a kick start and working config example for thoses
> who want to test peep.

Schweet!

-me

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Collin Starkweather, Ph.D.        col...@co...
University of Colorado                     Department of Economics
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Peep-develop] kick start and working config

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

here is a kick start and working config example for thoses
who want to test peep.

get the peep source via cvs,
$ apt-get install libxml-parser-perl libfile-tail-perl libfile-mmagic-perl libnet-ping-external-perl libproc-process-perl libtime-hires-perl libfilesys-diskfree-perl libexpat1-dev (i'm running testing/unstable)
$ cd peep-0.5.x :
$ ./configure --enable-debug=9 && make
$ cd peep-0.5.x/client/Net/Peep
$ perl Makefile.PL && make && make test




untar the peep sounds
in wetlands/events
execute :
for i in *;do folder=`echo $i |perl -pe 's/([\w\-]+[a-z])[\-\.0-9]+/$1/'`;mkdir $folder 2>/dev/null ;mv $i $folder ; done
(might be fixed soon)


in /usr/local/etc/peep/ :


---------------------- peep.conf ---------------------

# replace the sound path with yours !

#
# Peep (the network auralizer) - Main configuration file
#

general
  version 0.5.1
  # Path where the sounds are stored
  sound-path /usr/local/src/peep/sounds
end general

class main
  port 2000
  server localhost:2001
end class main


#
# Client configuration for Peep: The Network Auralizer client:
#   logparser

client logparser
  class main
  port 1999
  default
    groups  default
    logfile /var/log/messages,/tmp/test
  end default
  config
    events
      # Name      Group     Location     Priority   Notification   Pattern  	Hosts
      sudo        default       128         0          info          "sudo"	localhost
    end events
  end config
    notification
      notification-hosts none
      notification-recipients you...@he...
      notification-level warn
    end notification
end client logparser


# Load the wetlands theme
#theme themes/collin.xml

# Additionally load these two events

event
  name sudo
  path wetlands/events/redwing-blackbird
end event

------------------------------------------------------------------------


running the server : 

cd peep-0.5.x ; ./server/peepd --config=/usr/local/etc/peep/peep.conf --pidfile=/tmp/peep.pid --snd-device=/dev/dsp --nodaemon


running the client :
cd peep-0.5.x/client/Net/Peep ;perl -Iblib/lib ./bin/logparser --config=/usr/local/etc/peep/peep.conf --nodaemon --server=localhost --port=2000 --debug=9 --class=main --noautodiscovery


making something happen :

$ sudo echo $RANDOM

you should then hear the redwing-blackbird sound.



ps : note about the client doc :
http://www.auralizer.com:8080/Documentation/client (correct me if i'm wrong)

the first exemple should be a log example (making it simpler than ticker),
and there should be stronger separation between user doc and developper 
doc... 

or maybe there should be a kick start doc (a bit like my email ?)

ps 2 : note about the server : 
it should print a note about acquiring /dev/dsp...
it currently hangs if dsp is already taken,
and wait for it indefinitly (which is fine,
but it should specificaly say :

trying to acquire /dev/dsp........

or something like this.

thanks

bye

-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

Re: [Peep-develop] sounds path... corrected

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

||
|
|
|for i in *(.);do folder=`echo $i |perl -pe 's/[\-\.0-9]//g'`;echo $folder;mkdir $folder 2>/dev/null;mv $i $folder; done
|
|(zsh for the *(.) (only files))
|



err... this erase the - everywhere...

better : 

cd sounds/wetlands/events

for i in *(.);do folder=`echo $i |perl -pe 's/([\w\-]+[a-z])[\-\.0-9]+/$1/'`;mkdir $folder 2>/dev/null ;mv $i $folder ; done

-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

Re: [Peep-develop] sounds path

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

On Thu, Jul 17, 2003 at 05:18:07PM -0400, xavier renaut wrote:
|
|Hello,
|
|sounds like the sound paths are not correct 
|in the sound archive....
|
|the server is looking for a DIRECTORY :
|wetlands/events/redwing-blackbird/,
|then grabs the files in it,
|
|and in the sound tar,
|
|there are  wetlands/events/redwing-blackbird-*,
|which all are file
|


for i in *(.);do folder=`echo $i |perl -pe 's/[\-\.0-9]//g'`;echo $folder;mkdir $folder 2>/dev/null;mv $i $folder; done

(zsh for the *(.) (only files))

bye


-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

Re: [Peep-develop] Peep mentioned in InfoWorld

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 09:08:04AM -0500, Jeff Beaird wrote:
|Don't know if any of you avid peepsters read InfoWorld, but the July 3 
|issue had a column which mentioned Peep.
|
|<http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/07/03/26OPstrategic_1.html>



I wonder who is the writer...
if he is subscribed here or
if he found peep just browsing freshmeat...


looks a bit like a martian to me, peep is not yet prime time ready....


bye


-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

[Peep-develop] sounds path

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

Hello,

sounds like the sound paths are not correct 
in the sound archive....

the server is looking for a DIRECTORY :
wetlands/events/redwing-blackbird/,
then grabs the files in it,

and in the sound tar,

there are  wetlands/events/redwing-blackbird-*,
which all are file

thanks

bye



-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

Re: [Peep-develop] peep's popularity problems, changing name

[Collin S. <col...@co...>]

> On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 09:58, xavier renaut wrote:
> > btw, on a side issue,
> > 
> > i don't think peep is a good marketing name.
> > too much reference to "peep show"
> > althought the name is nice by itself.
> > (we can think at a bird peeping).
> > 
> > 
> > (i remember describing peep to a friend,
> > and he was asking for the spelling, 
> > the obvious answer being "as in peep show")
> > 
> > is auralizer another name for it ?
 
If I recall correctly, the name Auralizer came from the original
extended name:  "Peep:  The Network Auralizer."  It was perpetuated by
the original domain name registration for the Peep homepage.  Peep.com,
peep.net, and peep.org were already taken (you can guess what kind of
web sites they are ;-) so I went with auralizer.com.

Cheers,
 
-Collin 

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Collin Starkweather, Ph.D.        col...@co...
University of Colorado                     Department of Economics
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: [Peep-develop] peep's popularity problems, changing name

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

btw, on a side issue,

i don't think peep is a good marketing name.
too much reference to "peep show"
althought the name is nice by itself.
(we can think at a bird peeping).


(i remember describing peep to a friend,
and he was asking for the spelling, 
the obvious answer being "as in peep show")

is auralizer another name for it ?


bye

-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226  

[Peep-develop] Peep mentioned in InfoWorld

[Jeff B. <jef...@wh...>]

Don't know if any of you avid peepsters read InfoWorld, but the July 3 
issue had a column which mentioned Peep.

<http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/07/03/26OPstrategic_1.html>
-- 
Jeff Beaird
Buswell Memorial Library
Wheaton College
Wheaton, IL

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Re: [Peep-develop] peep's popularity problems

[Michael G. <mg...@ee...>]

   Sounds good Collin. Good luck with the dissertation and keep us
posted. We'll talk when the 20th gets closer :)

                 -- Mike

On Sun, May 18 @ 15:46, Collin Starkweather wrote:
> We were so close!  It won't take much to get 0.5.0 out the door, but I
> am defending my dissertation on June 20.  There are about a million
> things I need to do between now and then.  Needless to say I have been
> chained to my desk for some time trying to get the dissertation tucked
> away.  

-- 
Michael Gilfix
mg...@ee...

For my gpg public key:
http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~mgilfix/contact.html

Re: [Peep-develop] peep's popularity problems

[Collin S. <col...@co...>]

On Sun, 2003-05-18 at 11:36, Michael Gilfix wrote:
>   Hey Xavier. Probably the best way to go about this is to get Collin
> to let us know what the schedule is with his PhD.  I can't promise
> massive amounts of time at this point but we can definitely make
> progress. Unfortunately, we never quite finished up the 0.5.0 release
> (although we were so close). That's definitely something on the
> agenda. Then we can work on some of the nice configuration frills
> we talked about. More below.

We were so close!  It won't take much to get 0.5.0 out the door, but I
am defending my dissertation on June 20.  There are about a million
things I need to do between now and then.  Needless to say I have been
chained to my desk for some time trying to get the dissertation tucked
away.  

Unfortunately, though it pains me given how close we were to 0.5.0, my
first (and only) priority at the moment is getting through the defense
and I haven't been able to set aside the time to tie up the loose ends.

>   It's definitely a cultural thing. I remember when I was originally
> preseneting the work that I had dissenters who doubted it's usefulness
> just because it uses sound. It's unfortunately, but there are strong
> ties to music and hearing and no more. That's something to work
> on over time, but seems more like a mission than producing good
> software, which is somewhat less tangible.
> 
> > may be a visual output plugin might be a hooker for people ?
> > see attached file to see what i mean. sound would appear
> > like drops of rain, left and right for left and right ear.
> > real time, say 10 fps / sec
> > i don't know how to do that (using the screensaver rain ?
> > using winamp plugins ? look for something else ?)
> > but i'm thinking that if we do it, we need to do it 
> > fast. like to come up with something in 1 day or less... 
> > this is a teaser. a hooker for ppl.
> > no need to loose time on it. 
> 
>   I think providing some kind of visual output or integration with
> a visual component would have definite value for people.  It gives
> them the excuse to move beyond the novelty of the idea since the
> visual is useful. I think it's important that any kind of visual
> component is very straight-forward without too much abstraction. The
> audio is already very abstract. We need something concrete to draw
> people in. Collin was working on a visual display that had some strong
> promise. I think we should pursue integration. I can't remember how
> far along he had some in that respect.

I got a basic GUI prototype built in Glade, but hadn't tied in callers
to events.  I had intended to use eXtace as an embedded component to
provide the visual cues.  There would still be a good bit of work to get
a visual system out the door but the framework is there.

> > may be another problem is that our closest competitor,
> > netsaint/nagios, is already filling the niche...
> > reports, availability, the power of nagios is logging and
> > retaining information. 
> 
>   Still different but I see your point. Why use the gathering framework
> of Peep if you have another tool that substitutes but fits another niche?
> Well, we do still offer uniqueness, so I'm not too worried. I think
> our real problem is that we need to rekindle the fire and let the tool
> evolve some more. I'll let Collin wax eloquent on that regard.

I have taken a look at nagios, and it is an impressive system.  I see
Peep in another role, however.  Nagios is primarily geared towards folks
who have large-scale professionally managed installations.  I see Peep
as more of a simple, targeted system for folks who have a simple set of
monitoring tasks to accomplish.

I personally use Peep to monitor a box at home, one on campus, and soon
one that I'm dropping into a local coloc.  Peep is easy for me to
install, configure, and customize, whereas nagios would be extreme
overkill for my simple needs.  I also rather enjoy the seamless ability
to monitor systems in an aesthetically pleasing way without having to
look at an interface every few minutes.  

I agree about rekindling the fire.  My schedule leading up to my defense
I think has been the primary reason development has slowed to a
standstill recently.  I look forward to finishing up my degree and
having some time to turn some attention back to Peep.

>   Thanks for starting up the discussion again Xavier. It's been
> too long :)

Indeed!  Good hearing from you again, Xavier :-)

-me

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Collin Starkweather              http://www.collinstarkweather.com
Consulting Software Engineer      col...@co...
Ph.D. Candidate     University of Colorado Department of Economics
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Re: [Peep-develop] peep's popularity problems

[Michael G. <mg...@ee...>]

  Hey Xavier. Probably the best way to go about this is to get Collin
to let us know what the schedule is with his PhD.  I can't promise
massive amounts of time at this point but we can definitely make
progress. Unfortunately, we never quite finished up the 0.5.0 release
(although we were so close). That's definitely something on the
agenda. Then we can work on some of the nice configuration frills
we talked about. More below.

On Sun, May 18 @ 11:54, xavier renaut wrote:
> (01:18:54) node3667: we need to think about why peep is not a success if we want it do be more used...
> (01:19:54) magilfix: There are definitely a lot of people that have tried the software and I think it was a success just because it got people thinking
> (01:22:43) node3667: i really think peep is good software
> (01:23:16) node3667: but it looks like only sysadmin who have too much time in their hands are using it
> (01:24:03) magilfix: Cool. I think a lot of people are messing around with it.. I'm just not sure whether it's really taken off. It's hard to tell because when you do a good job, you tend not to hear about it from the general population :)
> (01:24:49) node3667: hum, i don't know, i really think i would generate more traffic on mls
> (01:25:13) node3667: peep is not (maybe it's part of the problem) a trivial tool
> (01:25:26) magilfix: I agree.. We were working on making it easier to configure
> 
> (01:26:08) node3667: right now i already find it easy to configure
> (01:26:27) node3667: that's the stuff about deployement, communication which is a hassle
> (01:26:56) magilfix: Well, send us any suggestions :)
> 
> First, i really think we shouldn't start mimicing netsaint/nagios
> (ie no email....)

  Agreed. We haven't been very communicative as of late. I'd like
to blame a busy schedule but that's no excuse so I'm guilty too :)

> i'm using nagios and it's doing a pretty good job. no need to come
> up with something that would do half his job and integrated 
> with something that do realtime analysis.

  Yeah, looking for ways to combine tools is really important for us
since we fit a particular niche.

> and i believe this were peep is good : real time monitoring.
> i believe this is the niche for peep. 

  Definitely. Always has.

> 2 problems (maybe?) with peep :
> 
> - setting up the communication channels between hosts
> part of the hassle is that for peep to work,
> we need a peep client on each machine. 
> means managing multiple peep configs, maybe it implies cvs....

  Well, do we have ways that solve this problem in a LAN setting -
i.e., the autodiscovery protocol (and leasing when using UDP). But,
a separate tool (such as cfengine, rdist, NFS, etc) must be used to
share configuration data.

> we should advertise the network values of syslog on 
> the doc. it looks far easier to set up a syslog server
> that deploying peep around. the network possibilities
> of peep are really really nice though, and we need to
> keep that. sometimes syslog is not possible. (i think
> traffic monitoring here, between others...)

  Agreed. Maybe we haven't played up this point enough. Perhaps too
much flexibility is a bad thing since it invites complexity. Part
of the reason that syslog is *easier* though is because people just
expect to have to push their syslog configurations out to the hosts.
It's harder convincing people to take that extra step. Perhaps we need
a "how-to" or some experience stories on how to best use the software.

> 
> - using sound 
> we need to ease the processing. not many sound cards
> thoses days accept multiple locks on /dev/dsp,
> so we need to make it work with alsa and/or esd.
> fyi, i'm using esd on my machines thoses days.
> ppl don't want their /dev/dsp clogged all day by a program.
> ppl want their im/irc alert working. (talking to much about
> my self maybe ;-)

  Actually, we do have ALSA support (I forget which version at this
point and since it moves quickly, it might need updating, but I think
it was the 0.9.x version). Esd is another way to go.

> and i don't know, maybe our culture is to much sight-centric,
> not really audiophile... audio is for entertainement (think
> music) when i explain peep to people, they're smiling
> when they learn that peep is sound based. 
> "realtime monitoring tool" sounds cool. this is peep.
> maybe ppl don't believe in sound. they believe in 
> popups. blinking. visual. another power of peep
> is that it's investigating another field yet
> unutilized professionaly speaking : the ear.
> (sound like i'm selling the lastest nonexistant dot com product.)
> (our product is based on a totally unexploited technology,
> multiply your productivity  !!)

  It's definitely a cultural thing. I remember when I was originally
preseneting the work that I had dissenters who doubted it's usefulness
just because it uses sound. It's unfortunately, but there are strong
ties to music and hearing and no more. That's something to work
on over time, but seems more like a mission than producing good
software, which is somewhat less tangible.

> may be a visual output plugin might be a hooker for people ?
> see attached file to see what i mean. sound would appear
> like drops of rain, left and right for left and right ear.
> real time, say 10 fps / sec
> i don't know how to do that (using the screensaver rain ?
> using winamp plugins ? look for something else ?)
> but i'm thinking that if we do it, we need to do it 
> fast. like to come up with something in 1 day or less... 
> this is a teaser. a hooker for ppl.
> no need to loose time on it. 

  I think providing some kind of visual output or integration with
a visual component would have definite value for people.  It gives
them the excuse to move beyond the novelty of the idea since the
visual is useful. I think it's important that any kind of visual
component is very straight-forward without too much abstraction. The
audio is already very abstract. We need something concrete to draw
people in. Collin was working on a visual display that had some strong
promise. I think we should pursue integration. I can't remember how
far along he had some in that respect.

> may be another problem is that our closest competitor,
> netsaint/nagios, is already filling the niche...
> reports, availability, the power of nagios is logging and
> retaining information. 

  Still different but I see your point. Why use the gathering framework
of Peep if you have another tool that substitutes but fits another niche?
Well, we do still offer uniqueness, so I'm not too worried. I think
our real problem is that we need to rekindle the fire and let the tool
evolve some more. I'll let Collin wax eloquent on that regard.

> we can ask ourself the question : what does peep brings to 
> ppl that nagios doesnt ?
> 
> - coolness factor
> 
> - realtime (i'm searching for a situation where it's needed, but 
> i can't find one)
> 
> - audio usage (could be counter productive at first, though i think
> it's the best choice made)
> 
> thoses 3 items are not enough. peep is not plug and play so
> it doesn't help. we need to find "real advantages,
> necessities" to "market" peep.

  But you must admit that 0.5.x is a huge step in the plug-and-play
direction. Keep in mind that realtime monitoring is more than a specific
situation but more like a state of mind: The administrator always
wants to be aware of all activity within the network at all times to
detect general problems; I don't think it's quite a question of
a specific situation where we shine.

  Thanks for starting up the discussion again Xavier. It's been
too long :)

                  -- Mike

-- 
Michael Gilfix
mg...@ee...

For my gpg public key:
http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~mgilfix/contact.html

Re: [Peep-develop] mailing lists

[Michael G. <mg...@ee...>]

  Thanks for the pointer Xavier. I've added a link to the mailing
lists in the "Contact Info" section of the website. It provides links
to access subscription for both mailing lists.

                -- Mike

On Fri, May 16 @ 16:42, xavier renaut wrote:
> Hi !
> 
> (posting again with a different adress. i'm subscribed to the list)
> 
> it would be nice to see a mailing list link on http://auralizer.com:8080/peep,
> (somewhere obvious)
> 
> i just wanted to subscribe me, and 
> i had to search, dig to sf...
> 
> to find this : http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=15807
> 
> thanks
> 
> bye

-- 
Michael Gilfix
mg...@ee...

For my gpg public key:
http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~mgilfix/contact.html

[Peep-develop] peep's popularity problems

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

Hi,

I had a talk with Mike that i'd like to report here...

(01:18:54) node3667: we need to think about why peep is not a success if we want it do be more used...
(01:19:54) magilfix: There are definitely a lot of people that have tried the software and I think it was a success just because it got people thinking
(01:22:43) node3667: i really think peep is good software
(01:23:16) node3667: but it looks like only sysadmin who have too much time in their hands are using it
(01:24:03) magilfix: Cool. I think a lot of people are messing around with it.. I'm just not sure whether it's really taken off. It's hard to tell because when you do a good job, you tend not to hear about it from the general population :)
(01:24:49) node3667: hum, i don't know, i really think i would generate more traffic on mls
(01:25:13) node3667: peep is not (maybe it's part of the problem) a trivial tool
(01:25:26) magilfix: I agree.. We were working on making it easier to configure

(01:26:08) node3667: right now i already find it easy to configure
(01:26:27) node3667: that's the stuff about deployement, communication which is a hassle
(01:26:56) magilfix: Well, send us any suggestions :)

First, i really think we shouldn't start mimicing netsaint/nagios
(ie no email....)

i'm using nagios and it's doing a pretty good job. no need to come
up with something that would do half his job and integrated 
with something that do realtime analysis.

and i believe this were peep is good : real time monitoring.
i believe this is the niche for peep. 

2 problems (maybe?) with peep :

- setting up the communication channels between hosts
part of the hassle is that for peep to work,
we need a peep client on each machine. 
means managing multiple peep configs, maybe it implies cvs....

we should advertise the network values of syslog on 
the doc. it looks far easier to set up a syslog server
that deploying peep around. the network possibilities
of peep are really really nice though, and we need to
keep that. sometimes syslog is not possible. (i think
traffic monitoring here, between others...)


- using sound 
we need to ease the processing. not many sound cards
thoses days accept multiple locks on /dev/dsp,
so we need to make it work with alsa and/or esd.
fyi, i'm using esd on my machines thoses days.
ppl don't want their /dev/dsp clogged all day by a program.
ppl want their im/irc alert working. (talking to much about
my self maybe ;-)

and i don't know, maybe our culture is to much sight-centric,
not really audiophile... audio is for entertainement (think
music) when i explain peep to people, they're smiling
when they learn that peep is sound based. 
"realtime monitoring tool" sounds cool. this is peep.
maybe ppl don't believe in sound. they believe in 
popups. blinking. visual. another power of peep
is that it's investigating another field yet
unutilized professionaly speaking : the ear.
(sound like i'm selling the lastest nonexistant dot com product.)
(our product is based on a totally unexploited technology,
multiply your productivity  !!)

may be a visual output plugin might be a hooker for people ?
see attached file to see what i mean. sound would appear
like drops of rain, left and right for left and right ear.
real time, say 10 fps / sec
i don't know how to do that (using the screensaver rain ?
using winamp plugins ? look for something else ?)
but i'm thinking that if we do it, we need to do it 
fast. like to come up with something in 1 day or less... 
this is a teaser. a hooker for ppl.
no need to loose time on it. 

may be another problem is that our closest competitor,
netsaint/nagios, is already filling the niche...
reports, availability, the power of nagios is logging and
retaining information. 

we can ask ourself the question : what does peep brings to 
ppl that nagios doesnt ?

- coolness factor

- realtime (i'm searching for a situation where it's needed, but 
i can't find one)

- audio usage (could be counter productive at first, though i think
it's the best choice made)

thoses 3 items are not enough. peep is not plug and play so
it doesn't help. we need to find "real advantages,
necessities" to "market" peep.



what do you think ?

cheers,

-- 
xavier renaut

[Peep-develop] mailing lists

[xavier r. <lis...@na...>]

Hi !

(posting again with a different adress. i'm subscribed to the list)

it would be nice to see a mailing list link on http://auralizer.com:8080/peep,
(somewhere obvious)

i just wanted to subscribe me, and 
i had to search, dig to sf...

to find this : http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=15807

thanks

bye



-- 
xavier renaut, 514 906 1212 x226