lily4jedit-devel — This list is for discussing development of lily4jedit.

[Lily4jedit-devel] Lilypond Server

[Joshua K. <zz...@us...>]

Hi,

I attempted to create a simple Lilypond Server the last few days, and for anyone's who interested, please give your comments (on the codings, concept or whatever) , or even better, if you can improve on it, (or maybe you can set up a server). I'm not on the lilypond-devel list, so please c.c. me. And also, if anyone wants to use my unworthy codes, or package it in lilypond, just go ahead to do so. See notes below.

Thanks,
Joshua Koo

NOTES
- - -  - - 
How it works:
	Server is written in python. Client needs java (likely 1.4).

	Start the Server on a machine with Lilypond
	"python LilypondServer.py"

	Compile the java class. "javac LilyClient.java"
	Run the client. "java LilyClient [ip address or hostname of server]"

	Make sure you have a lilypond file in your directory.
	type "upload foo.ly" where foo.ly is your lilypond file.
	Lilypond will run on the file after file is uploaded.
	Any errors or output by Lilypond will be shown to the client.

	When done, you can try to download the output files eg. "get foo.midi"
	File will be saved to the directory.

	Type "bye" to say bye to server

Background.

I don't think this idea is new, as I found mentions of this idea in the past mailing lists. However, this idea came to me not long ago, when I tried out coLinux [ www.colinux.org ]. Since it can run most linux applications on windows, I thought it can be a alternative to cygwin, without the hassle to modify the sources.

For a user to use LilyTool with Lilypond on coLinux, I thought the 2 options is either do all the work on coLinux (in the shell or on desktop "remotely") or continue using lilytool on windows, but use a network connection to run Lilypond. The more I thought about it, the more benefits I could think of. 


^ I wouldnt need a cygwin on every windows, or a Lilypond on every pc.
^ I could run coLinux daemon in the background and run Lilypond as if ran out of no where
^ I could have a slow pc but run Lilypond thru the network on a fast machine. 

When the topic of "Easier Lilypond Tutorial", I thought,

^ A public lilypond server would allow many others to try Lilypond without installing linux or lilypond.
^ Having Lilypond Server can free out utilisation of the current Pcs, needing just a light client (maybe just lilytool, or maybe java or python client), and bring the load to the server.
^ Different Lilypond Servers can cater to different lilypond versions.

My ideas continue expanding...

^ Maybe there should be a Lilypond Server Webpage. Allow generation of lilypond to pictues(png). Maybe create an account, login, type a set of lilypond codes. Click post, and request will be sent to the lilypond server, output is accessed thru the webpage (midis, pdfs..) Working on a big piece of music while on the move? Login and continue editing the pieces.

^ Distributed Lilypond / Load sharing. Users who have lilypond installed, could actually just run the server during idle pc periods. All these lilypond Servers can contact a lilypond manager which will assign jobs (perphaps from the main Lilypond Server or webpage queue) and oh wait,we got a beogulf of .... ;)


Future Enhancements:
(possible)
+ More functionality - bug fixes, error handling, multiple files support...
+ Lilytool Integration 
+ More security
+ Compression and hash checks for file transfer
+ Maybe multi-threading or non-blocking Server
+ Webserver/Webservice add-on
+ Clustered Servers
+ Caching, version control
(i'm dreaming)

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Re: easier LilyPond tutorial?

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

>>(note that there is a WizardWizard, if you would like to try it)
>>    
>>
>
>I'll attempt to try it, but my prioity now is quicklily ;)
>  
>
Great :-) Now there's a FilePicker, too :-)

>  
>
>>OK, but the point is that we may want to create the same file for the
>>same fragment.
>>    
>>
>
>I think if the fragment is unchanged, it will always hash to a same
>values, eg. {a b c} will always produce xyz123, so lilyxyz123.ly does
>not need compiling. {a b c'} would create a different hash, lets say
>xzz133 so lilyxzz133.ly can be compiled.
>  
>
That's true. I just wanted to note that we might not want to create lots 
of ly/log/ps/pdf files for every little modification.

Bert

[Lily4jedit-devel] Re: easier LilyPond tutorial?

[Joshua K. <jos...@gm...>]

>To compile this fragment,
>
>- Place the caret inside the fragment.
>- Select LilyPond > Help > Tutorial > Compile fragment

Sorry, something I forgot to add. 

Since the special Lilypond Tutorial mode is activated, is there a need
for the user to use use the command "compile fragment"? (which is
takes 4 moves to get to that command)

Would it be better if the user lilypond command is involved (by icon,
menu, shortcut), but when it detects that lily tutorial is on, it will
compile the fragment.

>(note that there is a WizardWizard, if you would like to try it)

I'll attempt to try it, but my prioity now is quicklily ;)

> OK, but the point is that we may want to create the same file for the
> same fragment.

I think if the fragment is unchanged, it will always hash to a same
values, eg. {a b c} will always produce xyz123, so lilyxyz123.ly does
not need compiling. {a b c'} would create a different hash, lets say
xzz133 so lilyxzz133.ly can be compiled.

Joshua

[Lily4jedit-devel] Re: easier LilyPond tutorial?

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

I get this back to lily4jedit-devel, because it is not related to 
lilypond development.

>Maybe the user can click on a link on the tutorial mode to start the wizard or it may launch automatically.
>  
>
Not everything is to be configured, only the things that are really 
necessary to run the tutorial. Running the configuration wizard should 
remain an option.

>For now there some shortcuts to LilyTool Plugin options and GlobalOptions-shortcuts or context menu. 
>  
>
Well, I'm not sure we should provide the Global Options, because it is 
three clicks to earn them otherwise (however, they can remain in the 
Development menu)

>I also think its a good way to configure lots of options in the start, eg. 
>Do you want the recommended docking settings? Yes, and they (eg NoteVisualiser, keyboard) are docked.
>Do you want want the default quicklily shortcuts? Yes, and the shortcuts are added.
>Do you like the compile fragment context menu? Checked and it added.
>Or, would you like all recommended settings? Yes, and tata, the "ideal" settings is configure without breaking the rules of jEdit (or, is this bending them?)
>  
>
Yes, they can become a configuration wizard (note that there is a Wizard 
Wizard, if you would like to try it)

>If it is really nessary to kill Acrobat, Runtime.getRuntime().exec() could be use to run Acrobat in a thread then kill/stop the thread (http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/guide/misc/threadPrimitiveDeprecation.html)
>  
>
That's true, but I don't want to close Acrobat if it is already running.

>Or another way to prevent running lilypond again on a same fragment is creating a hash or Message Digest in the file name.
>  
>
OK, but the point is that we may want to create the same file for the 
same fragment.

Bert

[Lily4jedit-devel] Tutorial

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

I'll take the Tutorial mode now.

Hail,

Bert

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Toggle Macros

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

Yeah, very good.

Bert

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Toggle Macros

[Joshua K. <jos...@gm...>]

Hmm, good point. I initially didnt wanted the actions to be removed
because you could called the action, eg. octave up, not just using the
keyboard shortcut, but maybe called thru the menu, or invoked by
another macro.

Also, if you remove quicklily actions, the shortcuts for quicklily
cant be configured in the global options when its issnt activated. But
of course, a custom configure shortcut dialog maybe needed for
quicklily.

For now, all the quicklily actions do not show up in the lilytool
menu, but as u say, it appears in the customise context menu options,
plugin shortcuts, so on...


On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 19:08:33 +0100, Bertalan Fodor <fo...@fr...> wrote:
> I'll check it next week. However, now I'm not sure that we should use
> lots of custom actions, because if we do, they will appear everywhere
> (like customizing context menu). Is it possible to remove all quicklily
> actions when switching off the quicklily mode.
> 
> Bert
> 
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Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Toggle Macros

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

I'll check it next week. However, now I'm not sure that we should use 
lots of custom actions, because if we do, they will appear everywhere 
(like customizing context menu). Is it possible to remove all quicklily 
actions when switching off the quicklily mode.

Bert

[Lily4jedit-devel] Toggle Macros

[Joshua K. <jos...@gm...>]

Hi,

I got stuck implementing this.
Basically an jEdit Action which have actionname.toggle=true in the
properties file would cause the editAction.isToggled() to return true
and allows a checkbox to be displayed in the menuItem calling the
.isSelected().

I have managed to done this for actions. Try QuickLily> Toggle Quick Pitches. 
But I havent been able to make a macro in lilymenu.xml have the same
properties. Can anyone solve this? I tried to make changes to the
LilyMacroAction.java

Joshua
:: If one's called a hacker if he make things work, maybe I should be
call a dehacker because I make things break? :(

[Lily4jedit-devel] [Fwd: easier LilyPond tutorial?]

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	easier LilyPond tutorial?
Date: 	Sat, 5 Mar 2005 17:46:09 +0100
From: 	Han-Wen Nienhuys <ha...@xs...>
To: 	lil...@gn...



[please forward to appropriate editor development lists]

Hi there!

I have a question for the lily4jEdit developers.

Yesterday Jan & I discussed how we could lower the barrier to start
using LilyPond. One the things we discussed was a better way to start
using LilyPond. Right now, this involves a newbie user

 * having to read the tutorial

 * learning the concept of text-editor, and learning to use it.

 * learning the concept of command-line, and learning to use it.

 * learning about debug-edit-compile

For a typical mac/windows user this is a rough introduction.  We were
wondering whether it was possible to provide something similar to the
Emacs tutorial, where a user is really taken by the hand learning
LilyPond.

Our idea is to have a text-file, which looks like


	This is the lilypond tutorial. Here is a simple fragment of LilyPond

	   { c'4 d'8 }

	To compile this fragment,

	- Use the mouse to hover over the fragment,
	- Click the right-mouse button
	- Select "compile music fragment" from the context menu

the text file would be edited in a special mode that detects indented
sections of the text, and adds the appropriate context-menu entry. The
"compile music fragment" would run LilyPond, kill any old PDF viewer,
and start a new viewer.  Of course, users are encouraged to edit the
indented sections on their own, to experiment a bit. We could even
insert some excercises.

In this way, editing & compiling .ly code is tightly integrated with
the tutorial, and a newbie isn't overwhelmed by all the new bits at
the same time.

Of course, the same trick might be applicable to Gedit or Emacs, and
the technical implementation might be optimized. Perhaps it's easier
to mark .ly sections with a special marker which is hidden during
display.

How does this idea sound? Any one willing to take on this task?


-- 

 Han-Wen Nienhuys | ha...@xs... | http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen



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lil...@gn...
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-devel

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] coLinux

[Johannes S. <Joh...@gm...>]

Hi,

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Bertalan Fodor wrote:

> Well, porting to MinGW would be a very rational solution. However, it
> would be tougher than using cygwin and would require strong knowledge of
> posix development.

The biggest problems IMHO are python and guile. Well maybe not Python,
because there exists pyMinGW, but rather glib and pango. If I find the
time, I will look into it next week.

> >From the CVS logs I remember that in the last days, work was done to support point-and-click with the PDF backend
> >via pseudo hypertext links.
> >
> Yes it is. My plan is to integrate the multivalent
> (http://multivalent.sf.net) browser's PDF module into lily4jedit,
> providing a better point-and-click experience than with jDvi.

Yes, multivalent is a very good browser. And then we can kick out jDvi.

Ciao,
Dscho

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] coLinux

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

Well, porting to MinGW would be a very rational solution. However, it 
would be tougher than using cygwin and would require strong knowledge of 
posix development.

>To my knowledge, the only reason to choose cygwin over MinGW32 was TeX,
>which works best with a complete Unix like environment. Having said this,
>there exists a good alternative to cygwin's TeX on Windows: MiKTeX.
>However, I only heard good things about it, never tried it.
>  
>
I do use it, and is very good.

>From the CVS logs I remember that in the last days, work was done to support point-and-click with the PDF backend
>via pseudo hypertext links. 
>
Yes it is. My plan is to integrate the multivalent 
(http://multivalent.sf.net) browser's PDF module into lily4jedit, 
providing a better point-and-click experience than with jDvi.

Bert

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] coLinux

[Johannes S. <Joh...@gm...>]

Hi,

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Bertalan Fodor wrote:

> I also was thinking about something like this. There could be a server
> in colinux, which could work with a network connection, sending messages
> and files. If it is much faster than running lilypond in cygwin, it
> would worth creating it.

IIRC coLinux only works on W2K and WXP, not on 95-ME. Another option would
be MinGW32. In contrast to cygwin, MinGW32 does not provide a complete
POSIX interface (no fork()...), and therefore is much faster starting up.
AFAIK the main problem regarding speed was that the bash initializes a few
things the POSIX way, which gets terribly slow on 95-ME, and to a certain
extent also on NT-XP.

Another advantage is that we don't have to care about cygwin
installation, but can distribute the whole package in one .zip together
with jEdit and java and lilypond and ghostscript.

To my knowledge, the only reason to choose cygwin over MinGW32 was TeX,
which works best with a complete Unix like environment. Having said this,
there exists a good alternative to cygwin's TeX on Windows: MiKTeX.
However, I only heard good things about it, never tried it.

Of course, the easiest method would be to just disable the TeX backend
(which is the default anyway). From the CVS logs I remember that in the
last days, work was done to support point-and-click with the PDF backend
via pseudo hypertext links. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough time yet
to investigate more (would be nice to ask ghostscript to give a list of
links together with their hot spots on the page, and I'm sure this is
possible), because I am still writing away like crazy on my PhD.

Ciao,
Dscho

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] coLinux

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

I also was thinking about something like this. There could be a server 
in colinux, which could work with a network connection, sending messages 
and files. If it is much faster than running lilypond in cygwin, it 
would worth creating it.

Bert

[Lily4jedit-devel] coLinux

[Joshua K. <jos...@gm...>]

Hi...

I wonder if you have come across or use coLinux. Its said to be able
to run linux applications to native speeds, without modifications on
windows. You could modify your existing linux partition and run in on
windows.

The webby is at http://colinux.org and lots of documentation is at
wiki.colinux.org

Anyway I installed it at my workplace, and its seems to run fine. I
could install lilypond 2.4.2 on debian in colinux easily at quite a
plesant speed using a petium 500 pc. I, however have not yet try it at
home. i seem to screwed up, aftering switching my hdd from primary to
slave, and when booting my debain causes kernel panic.

Well, i'm thinking, what if colinux becomes the prefered choice for
running lilypond on windows (over cygwin or qemu or vmware or
virtualpc).  2 options for lilytool users.

1. Running in X
lilytool could be installed on colinux and used via X ( because
colinux dun support x displaying natively, so that would be either
running cygwin/X or VNC or NXclient).

2. Using Lilytool in windows
then, since the colinux would be like another terminal or machine,
lilytool could (s)ftp to colinux, upload/update the lilypond file,
then ssh(2)  in and run lilypond on the file. but this might
complicate on how to view the files, so maybe colinux place the file
using samba on windows shared folder?

ha, just thoughts again ;)
Joshua

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Unstable Lilypond on Debian

[Joshua K. <jos...@gm...>]

Hi,

Finally got eclipse running on my debian! 1st few changes to get
lilytool working with the system is adding a suffix to the lilytool
option. Running lilypond and convert now works by adding -snapshot in
the suffix option.

I'm not sure how usefully this feature is or how many others will use
it. I thought that lilypond1.2 so such commands will be support with
this feature. Or would users prefer a option field for each command,
eg. lilypond: lilypond-snapshot. convert-ly: convert-ly-snapshot?

Joshua

Btw, anyone wants gmail accounts? I have plenty of invites.

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Unstable Lilypond on Debian

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

Yeah, we could ressurrect the setting default lilypond command, that was 
available in ancient times :-)
Or define a macro: Console.run("lilypond-snapshot %buffer", "LilyPond") 
or something similar.

>btw, interesting that devel has 7 subscribers, but user has approx. 1 only?
>
>  
>
Well, both of them are open to users: they do what they want. It costs 
us nothing :-)

Bert

[Lily4jedit-devel] Unstable Lilypond on Debian

[Joshua K. <jos...@gm...>]

Hi

I have installed lilypond using apt on debian.

The "default" lilypond is 2.2.6 here, but i would like to run 2.4.2
which is "unstable".

What else can be done so the command lilypond-snapshot can be run from
Lilytool instead of hitting lilypond-snapshot %buffer always?

btw, interesting that devel has 7 subscribers, but user has approx. 1 only?

Joshua

[Lily4jedit-devel] Updates

[Joshua K. <jos...@gm...>]

Hi,

You might have notice a tempory inactivity from me. Due to adapting to
my new life schedules, I would want to continue working on the
lilytool in a week more or so.

Updates in school life. I just completed my Final Year Project last
week and now I'm doing my attachment at a company call crimsonlogic
(likely doing J2EE).

Back at home, I just experinced another harddisk failure, grr! :( on
my 40GB maxtor harddisk. I'll have to fork out some time to bring it
for RMA but in the meantime I bought a 160GB seagate hdd. Well have to
reinstall applications and stuff like that again.

Joshua

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Some changes

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

>It seems the note visualising and quicklily feature is now broken. Do I need to modify files to fix them or do I wait for you to create more changes before I work on them?
>  
>
This more abstract kind of Token will remain the same (actually a Token 
is an Object-Position pair now). I tried to fix the trivial situations, 
but the classes were so big, I'm not sure, I did the job perfectly. The 
NoteString object will be eventually changed to make it possible to 
store note only pitch and duration, but also any other information 
(markup, dynamics etc.) associated with that note/chord. I still think 
that a note is a special kind of chord. So a pitch may contain multiple 
notes. Or not. :-) Well, try in some way, and we'll see what to change :-)

>>2.
>>
>>A StringTransformer is a funny class that allows you to plug-in a 
>>Transformer implementation that works on Tokens. The StringTransformer 
>>will get an original string, and transform the tokens in it (provided in 
>>the iterator, which should iterate over a list of Tokens). Its 
>>doTransform method will return a new string that contains the 
>>transformed token.
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
Look into macros/appendnotes.bsh You will see a Transformer created to 
append the note to the object.

Bert

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Some changes

[Joshua K. <zz...@la...>]

Hi,

>
>This change does break a lot of things, but IMHO provide a cleaner 
>decomposition of responsibilities.
>

It seems the note visualising and quicklily feature is now broken. Do I need to modify files to fix them or do I wait for you to create more changes before I work on them?

I also modified the Note class a little again, isRest() , isSkip() is added. Duration of note is represent by the class TimeValue. I wondering if pitch of the note should be represented by NotePitch and that Note should extends NotePitch.

>2.
>I've created a new interface (Transformer) along with a class 
>(StringTransformer). Their names will be changed, because a 
>StringTransformer is actually not a Transformer itself, only associated 
>with one.
>A StringTransformer is a funny class that allows you to plug-in a 
>Transformer implementation that works on Tokens. The StringTransformer 
>will get an original string, and transform the tokens in it (provided in 
>the iterator, which should iterate over a list of Tokens). Its 
>doTransform method will return a new string that contains the 
>transformed token.

Sorry again I seems to be slow again and dont really understand how this work. A few examples would be helpful.

>
>Sorry for the inconvenience because of breaking a lot of code, but I 
>believe it will worth it.

I hope so too :)

Thanks!
Joshua

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Some changes

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

Yes, if the NoteString objects would contain not only the pitch and=20
duration, but also an other part for articulations, etc., a NoteString=20
can be easily transformed into something else depending on its=20
articulation. You only have to check something more in the transform()=20
method.

Bert

Johannes Schindelin =EDrta:

>Hi,
>
>On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, Bertalan Fodor wrote:
>
> =20
>
>>Sorry for the inconvenience because of breaking a lot of code, but I
>>believe it will worth it.
>>   =20
>>
>
>Yes, I believe this, too. Now it should be possible to "toggle"
>articulations, i.e. turn them on, if no token contains this articulation=
,
>turn them off, if at least one token contains this articulation.
>
>Ciao,
>Dscho
>

Re: [Lily4jedit-devel] Some changes

[Johannes S. <Joh...@gm...>]

Hi,

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005, Bertalan Fodor wrote:

> Sorry for the inconvenience because of breaking a lot of code, but I
> believe it will worth it.

Yes, I believe this, too. Now it should be possible to "toggle"
articulations, i.e. turn them on, if no token contains this articulation,
turn them off, if at least one token contains this articulation.

Ciao,
Dscho

[Lily4jedit-devel] Some changes

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

Hello,

1.
I've radically changed the things about NoteIterator and NoteToken.

NoteIterator now creates a list of Token objects.
A Token objects is a concrete textual representation of an object in the 
text.
NoteToken class has been renamed to NoteString.
Now NoteIterator creates a list of Token objects that contain one 
NoteString along with its position. So NoteString's are no longer 
associated with their position in the text, but Token objects contains 
this information.

This change does break a lot of things, but IMHO provide a cleaner 
decomposition of responsibilities.

2.
I've created a new interface (Transformer) along with a class 
(StringTransformer). Their names will be changed, because a 
StringTransformer is actually not a Transformer itself, only associated 
with one.
A StringTransformer is a funny class that allows you to plug-in a 
Transformer implementation that works on Tokens. The StringTransformer 
will get an original string, and transform the tokens in it (provided in 
the iterator, which should iterate over a list of Tokens). Its 
doTransform method will return a new string that contains the 
transformed token.

Sorry for the inconvenience because of breaking a lot of code, but I 
believe it will worth it.

Bert

[Lily4jedit-devel] New list: lily4jedit-user

[Bertalan F. <fo...@fr...>]

Hello,

because of the growing number LilyTool, I've created a new list. Now all 
feedback is welcome on it as well as on the project trackers.
The new list is lil...@li...

Greetings,

Bert