From: Benny M. <ben...@gm...> - 2010-10-28 17:50:13
|
2010/10/28 lcc . <lcc...@gm...> > Gedcom has many limitations which we're aware of, but this is not one > of them. This is a Gramps problem. Nothing wrong with that, but please > recognize it. > I think I have done. Jerome clearly is annoyed with the general tone of that thread, but he also says he agrees. So let's close that matter. I think GEDCOM support is important. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to support as there are some things that make gedcom way too complicated, some things we don't want to support (individual facts that are like events???) and some things that are too flexible. We are adding things that don't have room in GEDCOM, like the tags. If you try the compound surnames export of Gramps, I think you'll see that the full name is exported, and that on import, the 'Extract information from names' tool can parse the GEDCOM back to compound surnames. Which proofs we don't want to neglect GEDCOM. Benny > On 10/28/10, jerome <rom...@ya...> wrote: > > Last Gedcom 5.5 revision : 10 January 1996. > > Remember your numerical use on 1996 ... > > You will quickly find the most common gedcom limitations ! > > > > Also Gedcom 5.5.1, 6.0 (drafts) pointed out most errors on Gedcom 5.5: > > relationships into family, missing role on event (no way for sharing), > name > > fields, advanced dates/calendars, mutimedia, place localization, encoding > (a > > nightmare with non-ASCII characters), etc ... > > > > > > > > --- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, lcc . <lcc...@gm...> a écrit > : > > > >> De: lcc . <lcc...@gm...> > >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New Locality field added to the > >> database > >> À: "Benny Malengier" <ben...@gm...> > >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <gra...@li...> > >> Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 16h59 > >> Indeed Benny, those people are not > >> very interested in Gramps > >> themselves. Still, their writings can only be seen as > >> beneficial to > >> us, who are. And this is indeed a development procedure > >> problem. I > >> don't much miss the new fields. To me it'd be better to > >> have a single > >> field and a solid export. So if you're (in this case, > >> Nick) > >> implementing these abstractions, it is your duty to make > >> sure they're > >> not failing to export. This is thus a huge bug in my > >> opinion and it > >> made Gramps look bad. But nothing is perfect. > >> > >> About your design comments, I think it'd be nice if we > >> could use both > >> methods at once, PLAC.FORM and the specific tags, if that > >> won't cause > >> trouble, which is something to check. > >> > >> --lcc > >> > >> On 10/28/10, Benny Malengier <ben...@gm...> > >> wrote: > >> > 2010/10/28 lcc . <lcc...@gm...> > >> > > >> >> Here, read this. My understanding is that people > >> are entering place > >> >> information in the fields you are providing to > >> them, instead of in a > >> >> single field. Then some of these fields are > >> disappearing on export. We > >> >> wouldn't want that, eh? Enlighten me if that's not > >> the case. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/soc.genealogy.methods/browse_thread/thread/ca1bdaef2ffc5bcb/3260844315e3952b > >> >> > >> > > >> > I must say these people can write a huge amount of > >> text for little use. > >> > Perhaps you can mention that just raising the problem > >> to Gramps allows for > >> > easy fixes. > >> > It's not like we are hard to get hold of. > >> > > >> > Benny > >> > > >> > > >> >> On 10/28/10, jerome <rom...@ya...> > >> wrote: > >> >> >> You people can't be adding abstraction > >> layers and then > >> >> >> ignoring that > >> >> >> information is being lost on export. > >> That's just wrong. > >> >> > > >> >> > I do not understand ! > >> >> > > >> >> >> according to those writing, some of the > >> place > >> >> >> fields are lost on Gramps' export to > >> GEDCOM. > >> >> >> It'd be quite nice to fix this. > >> >> > > >> >> > What should be fixed ? > >> >> > If Gramps properly exports Place title field, > >> _everything_ about place > >> >> > is > >> >> > exported (according Gedcom 5.5 file format). > >> Current Exporter extends > >> >> > support because there was request for that > >> and/or it was user data. > >> >> Should > >> >> > location's fields and coordinates be ignored > >> ? > >> >> > > >> >> > What is ignored on export ? > >> >> > How do you get data ? (import Gedcom, then > >> export Gedcom) > >> >> > Do you follow the Gedcom 5.5 spec ? > >> >> > > >> >> > Maybe I missed your post with the sample of > >> data not properly exported ? > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > Jérôme > >> >> > > >> >> > --- En date de : Jeu 28.10.10, lcc . <lcc...@gm...> > >> a écrit > >> >> : > >> >> > > >> >> >> De: lcc . <lcc...@gm...> > >> >> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS 006: New > >> Locality field added to the > >> >> >> database > >> >> >> À: "jerome" <rom...@ya...> > >> >> >> Cc: "Nick Hall" <nic...@ho...>, > >> "Gramps developers" > >> >> >> <gra...@li...> > >> >> >> Date: Jeudi 28 octobre 2010, 14h07 > >> >> >> It is quite simple Jerome. I don't > >> >> >> much care if the other program > >> >> >> supports it or not, as long as the > >> information is present > >> >> >> in the > >> >> >> exported GEDCOM file. That's the best we > >> can do. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> You people can't be adding abstraction > >> layers and then > >> >> >> ignoring that > >> >> >> information is being lost on export. > >> That's just wrong. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> --lcc > >> >> >> On 10/28/10, jerome <rom...@ya...> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > On export or import into an other > >> program ? > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Because, I also answered on a french > >> forum about > >> >> >> location. > >> >> >> > Gramps exports location fields > >> linked to the place > >> >> >> name/title. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > But most genealogical programs do > >> not support these > >> >> >> fields there. It is like > >> >> >> > having address on a place > >> name/title. Same possible > >> >> >> issue with coordinates. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Strict Gedcom 5.5 support will mean > >> to ignore these > >> >> >> data related to place > >> >> >> > name/title. Gramps aims to help user > >> to properly > >> >> >> export all its data, even > >> >> >> > if not imported by others > >> programs... > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Jérôme > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > --- En date de : Mer 27.10.10, lcc . > >> <lcc...@gm...> > >> >> >> a écrit : > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> De: lcc . <lcc...@gm...> > >> >> >> >> Objet: Re: [Gramps-devel] GEPS > >> 006: New Locality > >> >> >> field added to the > >> >> >> >> database > >> >> >> >> À: "Nick Hall" <nic...@ho...> > >> >> >> >> Cc: "Gramps developers" <gra...@li...> > >> >> >> >> Date: Mercredi 27 octobre 2010, > >> 21h19 > >> >> >> >> I was reading some discussion > >> >> >> >> concerning Gramps and genealogy > >> software > >> >> >> >> on the internet the other day > >> and was impressed to > >> >> >> find > >> >> >> >> that, > >> >> >> >> according to those writing, some > >> of the place > >> >> >> fields are > >> >> >> >> lost on > >> >> >> >> Gramps' export to GEDCOM. It'd > >> be quite nice to > >> >> >> fix this. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Regards, > >> >> >> >> --lcc > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On 10/27/10, Nick Hall <nic...@ho...> > >> >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> >> > Devs, > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > As part of "GEPS 006: > >> Better Place handling" > >> >> >> I have > >> >> >> >> added a new Locality > >> >> >> >> > field to Location between > >> Street and City. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> > http://gramps-project.org/wiki/index.php?title=GEPS_006:_Better_Place_handling#Good_definition_of_place_and_address.2Fresidence_event_in_Gramps > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > You will need to either > >> upgrade a database > >> >> >> from > >> >> >> >> version 3.2 or import > >> >> >> >> > from XML. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > An extra column has been > >> added to the Place > >> >> >> Views, so > >> >> >> >> please also delete > >> >> >> >> > the corresponding .ini > >> files. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > So far I have only added > >> the extra field to > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> >> interface for Places. > >> >> >> >> > The field is also present > >> in the Address and > >> >> >> >> Researcher objects. > >> Should > >> >> >> >> > I add it to the user > >> interface for > >> >> >> these? It > >> >> >> >> would seem to be a good idea. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Let me know if you have any > >> problems. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Regards, > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > Nick. > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >> >> >> > Nokia and AT&T present > >> the 2010 Calling > >> >> >> All > >> >> >> >> Innovators-North America > >> contest > >> >> >> >> > Create new apps & games > >> for the Nokia N8 > >> >> >> for > >> >> >> >> consumers in U.S. and > >> Canada > >> >> >> >> > $10 million total in prizes > >> - $4M cash, 500 > >> >> >> devices, > >> >> >> >> nearly $6M in marketing > >> >> >> >> > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, > >> Web Runtime, or > >> >> >> Java and > >> >> >> >> Publish to Ovi Store > >> >> >> >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> > Gramps-devel mailing list > >> >> >> >> > Gra...@li... > >> >> >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >> >> >> Nokia and AT&T present the > >> 2010 Calling All > >> >> >> >> Innovators-North America > >> contest > >> >> >> >> Create new apps & games for > >> the Nokia N8 for > >> >> >> consumers > >> >> >> >> in U.S. and Canada > >> >> >> >> $10 million total in prizes - > >> $4M cash, 500 > >> >> >> devices, nearly > >> >> >> >> $6M in marketing > >> >> >> >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web > >> Runtime, or Java > >> >> >> and Publish > >> >> >> >> to Ovi Store > >> >> >> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev > >> >> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> >> >> Gramps-devel mailing list > >> >> >> >> Gra...@li... > >> >> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> >> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All > >> Innovators-North America > >> >> contest > >> >> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for > >> consumers in U.S. and Canada > >> >> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 > >> devices, nearly $6M in > >> >> marketing > >> >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java > >> and Publish to Ovi Store > >> >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Gramps-devel mailing list > >> >> Gra...@li... > >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All > >> Innovators-North America contest > >> Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers > >> in U.S. and Canada > >> $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly > >> $6M in marketing > >> Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish > >> to Ovi Store > >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Gramps-devel mailing list > >> Gra...@li... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America > contest > Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada > $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in > marketing > Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store > http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev > _______________________________________________ > Gramps-devel mailing list > Gra...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gramps-devel > |