gamedevlists-general — List for discussing general game development issues

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Neil S. <ne...@r0...>]

> > We actually found that buying an engine made our *first* game more
> > expensive, because it wasn't as good or complete as it
> > claimed to be (don't
> > think I should name it)
>
> I totally disagree. I think you are doing a disservice to anyone that
> happens to be reading this forum who buys that same engine. My $0.02

Well, some of us don't like to shoot our mouths off before thinking about
it. It would not be prudent of me to name said engine here because:

a) We were not talking about the shortcomings of particular engines.
b) Our experience with this engine is just that: our experience. It may have
proven more than suitable for other people's projects.
c) Our experience of this engine took place over two years ago, and it may
have dramatically improved in those areas in which we found it to be lacking
(for our purposes). Naming it at this stage would be very unfair to the
engine vendor.

Also, we made a point of telling the engine provider, in great detail, why
we were not happy with the engine, something they were very keen to hear so
that they could improve it for the future. With any luck, there will be
people on this list using this engine with some of these improvements.

So please don't tell me who I am and am not doing a disservice to.

- Neil.

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[<cas...@ya...>]

Gareth Lewin wrote:
> And yes Phil, even that is a generalization and each company should do
it's
> own research, but a really good (for example the Quake III engine when Q3A
> just came out) engine would take what ? 2 coders 18 months ? 2 really good
> and expensive coders ? Say $100k a year. 3*100 = $300k. Remember that a
> worker costs a lot more than their gross salary so that is a very low
> estimate.

Unless you work in Spain, where programmer salaries are only about $20k a
year.


Ignacio Castaño
cas...@ya...

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Jorrit T. <Jor...@uz...>]

Gareth Lewin wrote:

>You miss my point, if I have to spend time working out how the engine works,
>and then spend time making changes to it, the price rises and I might as
>well have started from scratch.
>
I didn't miss your point. I simply don't think that that is the case. 
Making a full
engine from scratch is still a big task. Especially if you want to cover 
things
like portability and flexibility for many environments.

So I doubt that starting from scratch is easier. Perhaps for a quick and 
dirty
engine. But for a real and full working engine... No I don't think so.

Greetings,


-- 
==============================================================================
Jor...@uz..., University Hospitals KU Leuven BELGIUM

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, he said, BUT I COULD MURDER A CURRY.
        -- Death addresses his new apprentice
           (Terry Pratchett, Mort)
==============================================================================

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

> Gareth Lewin wrote:
> 
> >Because free engines don't include support, wont make 
> changes to suit you
> >and your time schedule, and in general (I haven't used 
> crystal space, so I'm
> >not giving an opinion on it at all!) they are not as good as 
> high quality
> >commercial ones.
> >
> I agree that CS still is not as good as some commercial alternatives. 
> But I object
> to not giving any support. We very actively support our 
> users. 

There are many kinds of support, if I pay a quarter of a million dollars for
something I can expect a differant level of support, I expect the engine
writers to fix a bug I found as first priority, and for them to burn the
midnight oil for me. BTW I'm not saying that is what you get, I'm saying
that is what I expect.

Crystal Space is (AFAIK) more of a volunteer like project, so if all of you
decide to go on holiday to Australia, that is find, and I don't "deserve"
more.

And as a side note, I've only ever heard good things about CS.

> There is 
> a mailing list,
> a message forum, an IRC channel (a VERY active one), and bug 
> and support
> trackers. In general I think we support our users VERY well.

Cool.

> 
> >
> >I specifically said Read:"Very good". Buying an engine which 
> isn't a good
> >one will probably end up costing you more than writing one yourself.
> >
> Depends. In this particular case CS is Open Source. So you can always 
> modify it
> to suit your needs.
> 

You miss my point, if I have to spend time working out how the engine works,
and then spend time making changes to it, the price rises and I might as
well have started from scratch.

BTW, please people take all this with a grain of salt, I'm just voicing
opinions. Please no-one who has written a graphics engine take offense in
what I said.

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Tom S. <to...@pi...>]

    I guess i'll throw in Torque (
http://www.garagegames.com/torque/commercial.php ) which is $10,000 per
title for a commercial license.  For those that don't know this is basically
the Tribes 2 engine.

    Tom

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pierre Terdiman" <p.t...@wa...>
To: <gam...@li...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 11:59 AM
Subject: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines


> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for current prices of well-known 3D engines, to back up an
> argument I have with some people...  Any quick figures for me ?
>
> I found those prices online:
> - Quake3
> - Cipher
> - Lithtech
> - Gamebryo (Netimmerse)
>
> I'd like to know for :
> - Renderware
> - Unreal
> - others ?
>
> Thanks,
> - Pierre
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay
> Get office equipment for less on eBay!
> http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
>

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

Probably true.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Forsyth [mailto:to...@mu...]
> Sent: 04 June 2003 12:30
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines
> 
> 
> My tuppence:
> 
> Buying an engine makes your first game cheaper & quicker, and 
> your second
> (and subsequent) games more expensive.
> 
> 
> Tom Forsyth - Muckyfoot bloke and Microsoft MVP.
> 
> This email is the product of your deranged imagination,
> and does not in any way imply existence of the author.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Neil Stewart [mailto:ne...@r0...]
> > Sent: 04 June 2003 12:13
> > To: gam...@li...
> > Subject: Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines
> > 
> > 
> > > I'm not implying anything of the sort.
> > >
> > 
> > Well, you kind of did, to tell the truth. :)
> > 
> > > I'm saying, and I'm gonna be extremly specific as to not 
> > anger Phil again,
> > > it's cheaper for a game starting from scratch with no 
> > pre-built technology
> > > to buy an already made engine that is well designed, well 
> > documented and
> > > suitable for the game.
> > 
> > Which is fair enough, although pretty much stating the 
> > obvious. I thought
> > your original statement was trying to make a more interesting 
> > point about
> > buying an engine in a much wider set of circumstances. For 
> > example, I know
> > several people who believe that it is always better to buy a 
> > good engine,
> > even in circumstances where many other people believe 
> > developing an engine
> > is a better idea. I thought you were going down this path, 
> > and I have to say
> > I'm disappointed because I would have been interested to see 
> > what people
> > thought about this.
> > 
> > 
> > - Neil.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by:  Etnus, makers of 
> > TotalView, The best
> > thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread 
> debugging features
> > you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> > Gam...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> > Archives:
> > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
> > 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by:  Etnus, makers of 
> TotalView, The best
> thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features
> you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
> 

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

> >Buying an engine makes your first game cheaper & quicker, 
> and your second
> >(and subsequent) games more expensive.
> 
> I like that, very concise. :)

But a generalisation that could be right or could be wrong.

> We actually found that buying an engine made our *first* game more
> expensive, because it wasn't as good or complete as it 
> claimed to be (don't
> think I should name it) 

I totally disagree. I think you are doing a disservice to anyone that
happens to be reading this forum who buys that same engine. My $0.02

> and we had to jump many hurdles to find decent
> performance and build nice, clean game code that would work on all
> platforms.

Which is exactly why I said that buying a not-good engine is more expensive

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Neil S. <ne...@r0...>]

>Buying an engine makes your first game cheaper & quicker, and your second
>(and subsequent) games more expensive.

I like that, very concise. :)

We actually found that buying an engine made our *first* game more
expensive, because it wasn't as good or complete as it claimed to be (don't
think I should name it) and we had to jump many hurdles to find decent
performance and build nice, clean game code that would work on all
platforms.

We actually ended up writing our own engine (in a hurry) and switched to
that during the first game, and I'm glad we did. It gave us back a lot of
the control we felt we had lost.

- Neil.

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Jorrit T. <Jor...@uz...>]

Gareth Lewin wrote:

>Because free engines don't include support, wont make changes to suit you
>and your time schedule, and in general (I haven't used crystal space, so I'm
>not giving an opinion on it at all!) they are not as good as high quality
>commercial ones.
>
I agree that CS still is not as good as some commercial alternatives. 
But I object
to not giving any support. We very actively support our users. There is 
a mailing list,
a message forum, an IRC channel (a VERY active one), and bug and support
trackers. In general I think we support our users VERY well.

>
>I specifically said Read:"Very good". Buying an engine which isn't a good
>one will probably end up costing you more than writing one yourself.
>
Depends. In this particular case CS is Open Source. So you can always 
modify it
to suit your needs.

Greetings,


-- 
==============================================================================
Jor...@uz..., University Hospitals KU Leuven BELGIUM

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, he said, BUT I COULD MURDER A CURRY.
        -- Death addresses his new apprentice
           (Terry Pratchett, Mort)
==============================================================================

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

Because free engines don't include support, wont make changes to suit you
and your time schedule, and in general (I haven't used crystal space, so I'm
not giving an opinion on it at all!) they are not as good as high quality
commercial ones.

I specifically said Read:"Very good". Buying an engine which isn't a good
one will probably end up costing you more than writing one yourself.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jorrit Tyberghein [mailto:Jor...@uz...]
> Sent: 04 June 2003 12:38
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines
> 
> 
> Tom Forsyth wrote:
> 
> >My tuppence:
> >
> >Buying an engine makes your first game cheaper & quicker, 
> and your second
> >(and subsequent) games more expensive.
> >
> <shamelessplug>
> 
> Why not go for a free engine instead (like Crystal Space of which I 
> happen to be the
> project manager :-)
> 
> URL: http://crystal.sf.net
> 
> </shamelessplug>
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> -- 
> ==============================================================
> ================
> Jor...@uz..., University Hospitals KU 
> Leuven BELGIUM
> 
> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, he said, BUT I COULD MURDER A CURRY.
>         -- Death addresses his new apprentice
>            (Terry Pratchett, Mort)
> ==============================================================
> ================
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by:  Etnus, makers of 
> TotalView, The best
> thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features
> you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
> 

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Jorrit T. <Jor...@uz...>]

Tom Forsyth wrote:

>My tuppence:
>
>Buying an engine makes your first game cheaper & quicker, and your second
>(and subsequent) games more expensive.
>
<shamelessplug>

Why not go for a free engine instead (like Crystal Space of which I 
happen to be the
project manager :-)

URL: http://crystal.sf.net

</shamelessplug>


Greetings,

-- 
==============================================================================
Jor...@uz..., University Hospitals KU Leuven BELGIUM

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, he said, BUT I COULD MURDER A CURRY.
        -- Death addresses his new apprentice
           (Terry Pratchett, Mort)
==============================================================================

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Tom F. <to...@mu...>]

My tuppence:

Buying an engine makes your first game cheaper & quicker, and your second
(and subsequent) games more expensive.


Tom Forsyth - Muckyfoot bloke and Microsoft MVP.

This email is the product of your deranged imagination,
and does not in any way imply existence of the author.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil Stewart [mailto:ne...@r0...]
> Sent: 04 June 2003 12:13
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines
> 
> 
> > I'm not implying anything of the sort.
> >
> 
> Well, you kind of did, to tell the truth. :)
> 
> > I'm saying, and I'm gonna be extremly specific as to not 
> anger Phil again,
> > it's cheaper for a game starting from scratch with no 
> pre-built technology
> > to buy an already made engine that is well designed, well 
> documented and
> > suitable for the game.
> 
> Which is fair enough, although pretty much stating the 
> obvious. I thought
> your original statement was trying to make a more interesting 
> point about
> buying an engine in a much wider set of circumstances. For 
> example, I know
> several people who believe that it is always better to buy a 
> good engine,
> even in circumstances where many other people believe 
> developing an engine
> is a better idea. I thought you were going down this path, 
> and I have to say
> I'm disappointed because I would have been interested to see 
> what people
> thought about this.
> 
> 
> - Neil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by:  Etnus, makers of 
> TotalView, The best
> thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features
> you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
> 

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Neil S. <ne...@r0...>]

> I'm not implying anything of the sort.
>

Well, you kind of did, to tell the truth. :)

> I'm saying, and I'm gonna be extremly specific as to not anger Phil again,
> it's cheaper for a game starting from scratch with no pre-built technology
> to buy an already made engine that is well designed, well documented and
> suitable for the game.

Which is fair enough, although pretty much stating the obvious. I thought
your original statement was trying to make a more interesting point about
buying an engine in a much wider set of circumstances. For example, I know
several people who believe that it is always better to buy a good engine,
even in circumstances where many other people believe developing an engine
is a better idea. I thought you were going down this path, and I have to say
I'm disappointed because I would have been interested to see what people
thought about this.


- Neil.

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Jamie F. <ja...@qu...>]

<blush> :)

Why thank you, Gareth :) Although i have to say i don't work on it, but with
it. It won't suit everybody at the moment (low level rendering access isn't
yet available through the API, ironically, given D3D), but it does have some
features that are pretty darn useful:

- complete streaming solution (i don't know of any other engine that offers
this, but i haven't looked hard)
- full phong lighting model
- underlying performant relational database
- a strong world editing tool (QStudio)
- complex finite state machines for controlling animation of characters

... and a number of other things too, which don't spring to mind right now.
More tea needed, i think :)

Jamie


-----Original Message-----
From: gam...@li...
[mailto:gam...@li...]On Behalf Of
Gareth Lewin
Sent: 03 June 2003 20:49
To: gam...@li...
Subject: RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines


Interesting, I'll take a look, but d3drm is (in my opinion) not a very good
engine (It suffered from a lot of design faults in my view) and d3dim wasn't
exactly a full featured games engine.

That said, both were a lot better than anything else out there (although
d3dim wasn't as good as OpenGL at the time), and I'm sure the people that
are working on Q have, like the industry as a whole, vastly improved. And
from following the lists, saying that you worked on it is an automatic
reason to assume it's good.

So off a webpage viewing I go.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jamie Fowlston [mailto:ja...@qu...]
> Sent: 03 June 2003 18:47
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines
>
>
> While i've got an excuse to plug.... :)
>
> Q is free on Windows, Linux and FreeBSD, with minimal
> support. I think the
> supported license is undergoing a little massaging as we
> build up to the
> next release, but is 50K euros per product according to the website
> (http://www.qubesoft.com/q/licensing.php), and covers consoles too.
>
> You could certainly debate the well-knownness of the engine,
> but the company
> founders' previous engine became D3D, which i believe is
> fairly well known
> ;p
>
> Jamie
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gam...@li...
> [mailto:gam...@li...]On Behalf Of
> Pierre Terdiman
> Sent: 03 June 2003 17:59
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for current prices of well-known 3D engines, to back up an
> argument I have with some people...  Any quick figures for me ?
>
> I found those prices online:
> - Quake3
> - Cipher
> - Lithtech
> - Gamebryo (Netimmerse)
>
> I'd like to know for :
> - Renderware
> - Unreal
> - others ?
>
> Thanks,
> - Pierre
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay
> Get office equipment for less on eBay!
> http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay
> Get office equipment for less on eBay!
> http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
>


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay
Get office equipment for less on eBay!
http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5
_______________________________________________
Gamedevlists-general mailing list
Gam...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
Archives:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

> > > > And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)
> > > Depend what you mean by cheaper. ;)
> > I mean that a good (read:"Really good") graphics engine 
> will make the
> final product cost less money to create.
> 
> Unless you already have a fully featured engine and toolset 
> in house, or
> are making something that's relatively small, or you're developing
> somewhere where programmers are particularly cheap at the moment.
> 
> gamedev-general, not gamedev-generalisation ;)

Please read my other reply.

And come on guys, lighten up, this is gamedev-general, not gd-algorithms :)

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

> > > > And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)
> >  >
> >  > Depend what you mean by cheaper. ;)
> >
> >  I mean that a good (read:"Really good") graphics engine 
> will make the
> final
> >  product cost less money to create.
> 
> I won't argue with that, but you said "it's cheaper to buy", 
> so are you
> implying that the only way to get a good (really good) 
> graphics engine is to
> buy one? Or just that, for many developers, it's more 
> realistic to buy one?

I'm not implying anything of the sort.

I'm saying, and I'm gonna be extremly specific as to not anger Phil again,
it's cheaper for a game starting from scratch with no pre-built technology
to buy an already made engine that is well designed, well documented and
suitable for the game.

Developing one yourself is very feasable, has a lot of pros over buying one,
but from a pure bottom line point of view is not as good.

And yes Phil, even that is a generalization and each company should do it's
own research, but a really good (for example the Quake III engine when Q3A
just came out) engine would take what ? 2 coders 18 months ? 2 really good
and expensive coders ? Say $100k a year. 3*100 = $300k. Remember that a
worker costs a lot more than their gross salary so that is a very low
estimate. 

I'm not saying that buying a 3d engine is better than making one yourself,
please don't read that into what I said.

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Timur D. <ti...@cr...>]

Developing you own graphic engine will most probably cost more for the =
company then bying one already existing.
Unless you want to base a whole line of you titles on your own =
technology or sell this technology.
Its a tough trade off as always :)

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil Stewart [mailto:ne...@r0...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 1:56 AM
To: gam...@li...
Subject: Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines


> > > And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)
>  >
>  > Depend what you mean by cheaper. ;)
>
>  I mean that a good (read:"Really good") graphics engine will make the
final
>  product cost less money to create.

I won't argue with that, but you said "it's cheaper to buy", so are you
implying that the only way to get a good (really good) graphics engine =
is to
buy one? Or just that, for many developers, it's more realistic to buy =
one?

- Neil.





-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by:  Etnus, makers of TotalView, The best
thread debugger on the planet. Designed with thread debugging features
you've never dreamed of, try TotalView 6 free at www.etnus.com.
_______________________________________________
Gamedevlists-general mailing list
Gam...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
Archives:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3D557

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[<phi...@pl...>]

> > > And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)
> > Depend what you mean by cheaper. ;)
> I mean that a good (read:"Really good") graphics engine will make the
final product cost less money to create.

Unless you already have a fully featured engine and toolset in house, or
are making something that's relatively small, or you're developing
somewhere where programmers are particularly cheap at the moment.

gamedev-general, not gamedev-generalisation ;)

Cheers,
Phil

PS Our sound library is technically middleware (it aquired a proper name
recently as well, which I've forgotten), but everything else is in-house.

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Neil S. <ne...@r0...>]

> > > And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)
>  >
>  > Depend what you mean by cheaper. ;)
>
>  I mean that a good (read:"Really good") graphics engine will make the
final
>  product cost less money to create.

I won't argue with that, but you said "it's cheaper to buy", so are you
implying that the only way to get a good (really good) graphics engine is to
buy one? Or just that, for many developers, it's more realistic to buy one?

- Neil.

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

> > And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)
> 
> Depend what you mean by cheaper. ;)

I mean that a good (read:"Really good") graphics engine will make the final
product cost less money to create.

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Neil S. <ne...@r0...>]

> You can just email them directly. I did when I still owned B.O.G and they
> varied from about $200k to $500k. 
> 
> And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)

Depend what you mean by cheaper. ;)

- Neil.

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

Interesting, I'll take a look, but d3drm is (in my opinion) not a very good
engine (It suffered from a lot of design faults in my view) and d3dim wasn't
exactly a full featured games engine.

That said, both were a lot better than anything else out there (although
d3dim wasn't as good as OpenGL at the time), and I'm sure the people that
are working on Q have, like the industry as a whole, vastly improved. And
from following the lists, saying that you worked on it is an automatic
reason to assume it's good.

So off a webpage viewing I go.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jamie Fowlston [mailto:ja...@qu...]
> Sent: 03 June 2003 18:47
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines
> 
> 
> While i've got an excuse to plug.... :)
> 
> Q is free on Windows, Linux and FreeBSD, with minimal 
> support. I think the
> supported license is undergoing a little massaging as we 
> build up to the
> next release, but is 50K euros per product according to the website
> (http://www.qubesoft.com/q/licensing.php), and covers consoles too.
> 
> You could certainly debate the well-knownness of the engine, 
> but the company
> founders' previous engine became D3D, which i believe is 
> fairly well known
> ;p
> 
> Jamie
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gam...@li...
> [mailto:gam...@li...]On Behalf Of
> Pierre Terdiman
> Sent: 03 June 2003 17:59
> To: gam...@li...
> Subject: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm looking for current prices of well-known 3D engines, to back up an
> argument I have with some people...  Any quick figures for me ?
> 
> I found those prices online:
> - Quake3
> - Cipher
> - Lithtech
> - Gamebryo (Netimmerse)
> 
> I'd like to know for :
> - Renderware
> - Unreal
> - others ?
> 
> Thanks,
> - Pierre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay
> Get office equipment for less on eBay!
> http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay
> Get office equipment for less on eBay!
> http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5
> _______________________________________________
> Gamedevlists-general mailing list
> Gam...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
> Archives:
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557
> 

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Gareth L. <GL...@cl...>]

> > You can just email them directly. I did when I still owned 
> B.O.G and they
> > varied from about $200k to $500k. 
> 
> $500k ? Twice as much as Q3 ? Wow.
> (For which one, exactly ...?)

I think it was for Q3 at the time. It was really new, so maybe the price has
dropped ? 

> > And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)
> 
> That's not what you think :)
> I certainly would like to licence them, just to look at the code !
> 

oh okie.

RE: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Jamie F. <ja...@qu...>]

While i've got an excuse to plug.... :)

Q is free on Windows, Linux and FreeBSD, with minimal support. I think the
supported license is undergoing a little massaging as we build up to the
next release, but is 50K euros per product according to the website
(http://www.qubesoft.com/q/licensing.php), and covers consoles too.

You could certainly debate the well-knownness of the engine, but the company
founders' previous engine became D3D, which i believe is fairly well known
;p

Jamie


-----Original Message-----
From: gam...@li...
[mailto:gam...@li...]On Behalf Of
Pierre Terdiman
Sent: 03 June 2003 17:59
To: gam...@li...
Subject: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines


Hi,

I'm looking for current prices of well-known 3D engines, to back up an
argument I have with some people...  Any quick figures for me ?

I found those prices online:
- Quake3
- Cipher
- Lithtech
- Gamebryo (Netimmerse)

I'd like to know for :
- Renderware
- Unreal
- others ?

Thanks,
- Pierre





-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: eBay
Get office equipment for less on eBay!
http://adfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/711-11697-6916-5
_______________________________________________
Gamedevlists-general mailing list
Gam...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gamedevlists-general
Archives:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=557

Re: [GD-General] Prices of well-known 3D engines

[Pierre T. <p.t...@wa...>]

> You can just email them directly. I did when I still owned B.O.G and they
> varied from about $200k to $500k. 

$500k ? Twice as much as Q3 ? Wow.
(For which one, exactly ...?)

> And to answer your question, it's cheaper to buy :)

That's not what you think :)
I certainly would like to licence them, just to look at the code !

- Pierre