Francisco Coronado: in col1 he only shows the colonies + surounding area, but colonies are shown with population 1, and only like simple colonies. you do not get to know their size + state.
here are two screenshots from col1, showing 3 colonies of foreign powers made visible by coronado (only colony + size 1 shown), and as a comparison with revealed map (cheat), you see the real size & expansion state, plus the units nearby.
To clarify, the screen shots are from the turn Coronado was elected?
In git.594bd51 I have disabled the ongoing display of unseen colonies. That should correctly meet the "you see only the last size you know of, until you move a unit within sight-radius" requirement. Currently Coronado-revealed colonies will initially show their actual size --- the display routines are not good at lying! --- so there is more to do there to get the size==1 appearance.
However, I think Coronado is a bit underpowered, so I am keeping the old code around, and will probably add an option to use it in the "freecol" ruleset.
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This is also true when you do not have coronado. If you explore a colony while it has a stockade + size 4, and move your scout on, the colony get's displayed for you in this state, until you move a unit close again. This is also true for ships - for example if you move past a fort / fortress you didn't know it was one, it can happen that your ship gets slowed down (ore halted, depending on left movement points), resulting in an attack of the fort / fortress in next turn.
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sure, you could at this as a ruleset option. however i think it's already very powerful to be able to see all colony locations (plus surrounding terrain). one additonal remark: this terrain reveal is also applied to your own colonies! so you can use it for some kind of "cheat-scouting" if you want to call it, building a colony immediatly removes the terrain (which in col1 was quite a large area).
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That should be working in FreeCol as of 0.11.0, and applies generally to all manner of semi-permanent tile changes. Its only because this does work that the above changes were relatively easy:-).
you could at this as a ruleset option.
Actually, it is done. The default is the Col1 behaviour, but the freecol rules use the extension.
however i think it's already very powerful to be able to see all colony locations (plus surrounding terrain)
Its nice, but it is going to take something pretty good to make me consider Coronado over deSoto, Magellan, or even laSalle in some games. IMHO the extension is a balance improvement, as it converts Coronado from a low to a medium priority. Others will differ of course, but the freecol ruleset is fair game for extensions.
building a colony immediatly removes the terrain (which in col1 was quite a large area).
How is that related to Coronado? ATM all colonies have a sight range of 2, which comes into effect when the colony is built. So it is normal to drop your initial units on the coast, and if they build a colony without scouting further you get extra tiles revealed because the initial units only have a sight range of 1.
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the terrain reveal by coronade is a 5x5 tile range, which is way more than the default colony sight range.
No, a colony has a sight range of 2, but that applies in each direction and is not inclusive of the colony tile itself (that would be a range of 0). 2 (left) + 2 (right) + 1 (colony tile) = 5 tiles, as you describe. What extended-Coronado is, in effect, is as if you have an agent in every colony who can see what the colony can see. This does not seem unreasonable or overpowered to me.
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the 5x5 tile range was in col1, not including the colony square, so means 5 left, 5 top, ...
So, really, 11x11? That is indeed quite large. I will put that in, but only as revealed territory, not ongoing visible area. The cheat-scouting problem is not that much of a concern yet --- we have a similar one with people building 1-turn colonies to cash in a treasure train from, for which there are a few proposed extensions to mitigate (e.g. colony building takes N turns). We could put in a delay for the Coronado tile reveal if it becomes too annoying.
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So, really, 11x11? That is indeed quite large. I will put that in, but only as revealed territory, not ongoing visible area.
Yes, exactly. And this is also correct - only the territory (ongoing visible area / no fog of war - only in sight radius of the colony).
we have a similar one with people building 1-turn colonies to cash in a treasure train
yes, this is a very common exploit ;)
Open for col1 compliance: Coronado applies revealing of colonies not only on election time, but from election on. So every newly founded colony will be revealed, own or foreign.
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also you see only the last size you know of, until you move a unit within sight-radius.
Added to the WWC1D wiki for confirmation.
here are two screenshots from col1, showing 3 colonies of foreign powers made visible by coronado (only colony + size 1 shown), and as a comparison with revealed map (cheat), you see the real size & expansion state, plus the units nearby.
To clarify, the screen shots are from the turn Coronado was elected?
In git.594bd51 I have disabled the ongoing display of unseen colonies. That should correctly meet the "you see only the last size you know of, until you move a unit within sight-radius" requirement. Currently Coronado-revealed colonies will initially show their actual size --- the display routines are not good at lying! --- so there is more to do there to get the size==1 appearance.
However, I think Coronado is a bit underpowered, so I am keeping the old code around, and will probably add an option to use it in the "freecol" ruleset.
That turned out to not be too hard, and is implemented in git.f04c011.
nice :)
This is also true when you do not have coronado. If you explore a colony while it has a stockade + size 4, and move your scout on, the colony get's displayed for you in this state, until you move a unit close again. This is also true for ships - for example if you move past a fort / fortress you didn't know it was one, it can happen that your ship gets slowed down (ore halted, depending on left movement points), resulting in an attack of the fort / fortress in next turn.
sure, you could at this as a ruleset option. however i think it's already very powerful to be able to see all colony locations (plus surrounding terrain). one additonal remark: this terrain reveal is also applied to your own colonies! so you can use it for some kind of "cheat-scouting" if you want to call it, building a colony immediatly removes the terrain (which in col1 was quite a large area).
That should be working in FreeCol as of 0.11.0, and applies generally to all manner of semi-permanent tile changes. Its only because this does work that the above changes were relatively easy:-).
Actually, it is done. The default is the Col1 behaviour, but the freecol rules use the extension.
Its nice, but it is going to take something pretty good to make me consider Coronado over deSoto, Magellan, or even laSalle in some games. IMHO the extension is a balance improvement, as it converts Coronado from a low to a medium priority. Others will differ of course, but the freecol ruleset is fair game for extensions.
How is that related to Coronado? ATM all colonies have a sight range of 2, which comes into effect when the colony is built. So it is normal to drop your initial units on the coast, and if they build a colony without scouting further you get extra tiles revealed because the initial units only have a sight range of 1.
i agree to your argumentation, coronado is like my last choice ...
the terrain reveal by coronade is a 5x5 tile range, which is way more than the default colony sight range.
No, a colony has a sight range of 2, but that applies in each direction and is not inclusive of the colony tile itself (that would be a range of 0). 2 (left) + 2 (right) + 1 (colony tile) = 5 tiles, as you describe. What extended-Coronado is, in effect, is as if you have an agent in every colony who can see what the colony can see. This does not seem unreasonable or overpowered to me.
the 5x5 tile range was in col1, not including the colony square, so means 5 left, 5 top, ...
So, really, 11x11? That is indeed quite large. I will put that in, but only as revealed territory, not ongoing visible area. The cheat-scouting problem is not that much of a concern yet --- we have a similar one with people building 1-turn colonies to cash in a treasure train from, for which there are a few proposed extensions to mitigate (e.g. colony building takes N turns). We could put in a delay for the Coronado tile reveal if it becomes too annoying.
Yes, exactly. And this is also correct - only the territory (ongoing visible area / no fog of war - only in sight radius of the colony).
yes, this is a very common exploit ;)
Open for col1 compliance: Coronado applies revealing of colonies not only on election time, but from election on. So every newly founded colony will be revealed, own or foreign.
Looked at this again recently, are we in compliance?