fontforge-users — Discussion area for users

Re: [fontforge-users] Appearance of glyphs

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

Oh, found in the palette.

Solved this very trivial problem, thank you!



Il 04/09/26 03:46, Mauro Sacchetto ha scritto:
> I find everything saved and can't go back.
>
> But if I copy and paste a glyph composed "normally" (i.e., not with 
> Spiro) into that window, it automatically takes on this characteristic.
>
> Is there a way to get out of this?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Il 04/09/26 02:58, Skef Iterum ha scritto:
>> Those are Spiro symbols, implying someone switched to using Spiro on 
>> this glyph. If they weren't drawn that way, you can probably just 
>> switch back and get the same segments back.
>>
>> Skef
>>
>> On 9/3/26 4:41 PM, Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users wrote:
>>> A simple question about an event that's mysterious to me.
>>>
>>> I see all the glyphs as shown in image 1 (https://ibb.co/TDgvSQVL), 
>>> but only one glyph, the "Combining square below," doesn't have the 
>>> usual indicators, but instead has dots and red square brackets, as 
>>> shown in image 2 (https://ibb.co/n8wSypgL).
>>>
>>> Did I specifically touch something I shouldn't have?
>>>
>>> How can I restore my normal display?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> fontforge-users mailing list
>>> fon...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>>> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> fontforge-users mailing list
>> fon...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>
-- 
Mauro Sacchetto
Santa Croce 1332a
30135 Venezia (VE)
tel.: 041 722938
cell.: 348 9690575
e-mail: mau...@ic...

Re: [fontforge-users] Appearance of glyphs

[Mauro S. <mau...@gm...>]

I find everything saved and can't go back.

But if I copy and paste a glyph composed "normally" (i.e., not with 
Spiro) into that window, it automatically takes on this characteristic.

Is there a way to get out of this?








Il 04/09/26 02:58, Skef Iterum ha scritto:
> Those are Spiro symbols, implying someone switched to using Spiro on 
> this glyph. If they weren't drawn that way, you can probably just 
> switch back and get the same segments back.
>
> Skef
>
> On 9/3/26 4:41 PM, Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users wrote:
>> A simple question about an event that's mysterious to me.
>>
>> I see all the glyphs as shown in image 1 (https://ibb.co/TDgvSQVL), 
>> but only one glyph, the "Combining square below," doesn't have the 
>> usual indicators, but instead has dots and red square brackets, as 
>> shown in image 2 (https://ibb.co/n8wSypgL).
>>
>> Did I specifically touch something I shouldn't have?
>>
>> How can I restore my normal display?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> fontforge-users mailing list
>> fon...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

-- 
Mauro Sacchetto
Santa Croce 1332a
30135 Venezia (VE)
tel.: 041 722938
cell.: 348 9690575
e-mail: mau...@ic...

Re: [fontforge-users] Appearance of glyphs

[Skef I. <gi...@sk...>]

Those are Spiro symbols, implying someone switched to using Spiro on 
this glyph. If they weren't drawn that way, you can probably just switch 
back and get the same segments back.

Skef

On 9/3/26 4:41 PM, Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users wrote:
> A simple question about an event that's mysterious to me.
>
> I see all the glyphs as shown in image 1 (https://ibb.co/TDgvSQVL), 
> but only one glyph, the "Combining square below," doesn't have the 
> usual indicators, but instead has dots and red square brackets, as 
> shown in image 2 (https://ibb.co/n8wSypgL).
>
> Did I specifically touch something I shouldn't have?
>
> How can I restore my normal display?
>
> Thanks.
>
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

[fontforge-users] Appearance of glyphs

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

A simple question about an event that's mysterious to me.

I see all the glyphs as shown in image 1 (https://ibb.co/TDgvSQVL), but 
only one glyph, the "Combining square below," doesn't have the usual 
indicators, but instead has dots and red square brackets, as shown in 
image 2 (https://ibb.co/n8wSypgL).

Did I specifically touch something I shouldn't have?

How can I restore my normal display?

Thanks.

m

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Thales M. <tha...@gm...>]

Thanks for sharing that. I usually modify fonts that already have these
lookups present, that's why I didn't think of it. Those anchor rules are
really complex; One must take their time to grasp it.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2026 at 3:27 PM Mauro Sacchetto <mau...@gm...>
wrote:

> Oh, the solution was just around the corner!!
>
> I must have messed around with a thousand useless attempts.
>
> In reality, compound glyphs are created correctly with mark combs under
> these conditions:
>
> 1) have all the useful combing glyphs (Modifiers are also present, but
> at this point they are not used);
>
> 2) create the "mark" lookup in Lookup - GPOS with the relevant classes;
>
> 3) set the anchors for base and mark;
>
> 4) in "Preferences - Accents" set PreferSpacingAccents to OFF (the other
> two options have no effect). This is essential.
>
> Now everything works correctly.
>
> Thank you very much for your extensive help.
>
> m
>
>
>
>
> Il 27/08/26 15:40, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> > If you delete the spacing grave(U+0060) and the modifier grave(U+02cb)
> > and leave only the combining grave(U+0300) and then tweak the
> > "PreferSpacingAccents" back and forth, and it still doesn't work, then
> > I don't know. Perhaps someone else could give a tip.
> >
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     fontforge-users mailing list
> >     fon...@li...
> >     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> >     http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@gm...>]

Oh, the solution was just around the corner!!

I must have messed around with a thousand useless attempts.

In reality, compound glyphs are created correctly with mark combs under 
these conditions:

1) have all the useful combing glyphs (Modifiers are also present, but 
at this point they are not used);

2) create the "mark" lookup in Lookup - GPOS with the relevant classes;

3) set the anchors for base and mark;

4) in "Preferences - Accents" set PreferSpacingAccents to OFF (the other 
two options have no effect). This is essential.

Now everything works correctly.

Thank you very much for your extensive help.

m




Il 27/08/26 15:40, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> If you delete the spacing grave(U+0060) and the modifier grave(U+02cb) 
> and leave only the combining grave(U+0300) and then tweak the 
> "PreferSpacingAccents" back and forth, and it still doesn't work, then 
> I don't know. Perhaps someone else could give a tip.
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     fontforge-users mailing list
>     fon...@li...
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>     http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>
>

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Thales M. <tha...@gm...>]

If you delete the spacing grave(U+0060) and the modifier grave(U+02cb) and
leave only the combining grave(U+0300) and then tweak the
"PreferSpacingAccents" back and forth, and it still doesn't work, then I
don't know. Perhaps someone else could give a tip.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2026, 05:18 Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users <
fon...@li...> wrote:

> Thanks for the Python tip; I'll take my time.
>
>
> One last, crucial question.
>
> When creating composite glyphs, FF uses Modifiers, not Combinings. But
> the former shouldn't contain anchors, unlike the latter. For example,
> agrave is automatically composed of a + gravemodifier (uni02cb) and not
> a + gravecomb (uni0300). This defeats a more precise positioning
> calculated with anchors.
>
> Is there a way to set FF to automatically use Combinings and not Modifiers?
>
>
>
>
>
> Il 26/08/26 16:42, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> > Do you know any programming at all?
> >
> > Take a look at this documentation:
> > https://fontforge.org/docs/scripting/python/fontforge.html
> >
> > As you can see, there are methods like "glyph.anchorPoints" and
> > "glyph.addReference" that allow you to look at an anchor, create a
> > proper transformation matrix and position the reference to create your
> > composites.
> >
> > Learning Python with chatbots is really fun. Programming in general
> > can be really fun but it can also be really annoying and drive you
> > crazy. The fun part is when you're developing the ideas, testing, and
> > it's all working, and the project is moving forward. The really
> > annoying part is when the project gets really really complex, that
> > every now and then a bug arises, and you get stuck for 3 weeks turning
> > everything upside down and can't for the love of God make it work. And
> > just so you know, so you can make an informed decision, the fun part
> > is usually 10% of the time, while the annoying, crazy driving part, is
> > the other 90%.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 3:10 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users
> > <fon...@li...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     I've never used Python scripts; I'm curious where I could find some
> >     exa
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

Thanks for the Python tip; I'll take my time.


One last, crucial question.

When creating composite glyphs, FF uses Modifiers, not Combinings. But 
the former shouldn't contain anchors, unlike the latter. For example, 
agrave is automatically composed of a + gravemodifier (uni02cb) and not 
a + gravecomb (uni0300). This defeats a more precise positioning 
calculated with anchors.

Is there a way to set FF to automatically use Combinings and not Modifiers?





Il 26/08/26 16:42, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> Do you know any programming at all?
>
> Take a look at this documentation: 
> https://fontforge.org/docs/scripting/python/fontforge.html
>
> As you can see, there are methods like "glyph.anchorPoints" and 
> "glyph.addReference" that allow you to look at an anchor, create a 
> proper transformation matrix and position the reference to create your 
> composites.
>
> Learning Python with chatbots is really fun. Programming in general 
> can be really fun but it can also be really annoying and drive you 
> crazy. The fun part is when you're developing the ideas, testing, and 
> it's all working, and the project is moving forward. The really 
> annoying part is when the project gets really really complex, that 
> every now and then a bug arises, and you get stuck for 3 weeks turning 
> everything upside down and can't for the love of God make it work. And 
> just so you know, so you can make an informed decision, the fun part 
> is usually 10% of the time, while the annoying, crazy driving part, is 
> the other 90%.
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 3:10 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users 
> <fon...@li...> wrote:
>
>
>     I've never used Python scripts; I'm curious where I could find some
>     exa
>

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Thales M. <tha...@gm...>]

Do you know any programming at all?

Take a look at this documentation:
https://fontforge.org/docs/scripting/python/fontforge.html

As you can see, there are methods like "glyph.anchorPoints" and
"glyph.addReference" that allow you to look at an anchor, create a proper
transformation matrix and position the reference to create your composites.

Learning Python with chatbots is really fun. Programming in general can be
really fun but it can also be really annoying and drive you crazy. The fun
part is when you're developing the ideas, testing, and it's all working,
and the project is moving forward. The really annoying part is when the
project gets really really complex, that every now and then a bug arises,
and you get stuck for 3 weeks turning everything upside down and can't for
the love of God make it work. And just so you know, so you can make an
informed decision, the fun part is usually 10% of the time, while the
annoying, crazy driving part, is the other 90%.

On Tue, Aug 25, 2026 at 3:10 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users <
fon...@li...> wrote:

>
> I've never used Python scripts; I'm curious where I could find some
> examples, especially for managing composite glyphs. Or should I create
> one myself? Because I don't know Python. :(
>
> I opened the file you indicated, but I don't understand anything...
>
>
>
> Il 24/08/26 17:04, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> > I'm sorry. I wrote a reply earlier that didn't pass through the
> > moderation because I attached a file. What I said was that I would
> > move to the Python's scripting functionality of FontForge to resolve
> > this issue. I'm pretty sure it delivers access to all the variables
> > required to do any type of composite generation. And, if you want, you
> > can go to FontForge's source code and look into the file
> > "fvcomposite.c", because that's probably where the bug you are
> > referring to can be found.
> >
> > There's one more hack that you can try. You could get a professional
> > font that already contains all the small caps that you want in
> > composite form, and then replace the splines of that with your splines
> > by copying and pasting(open both fonts through the same instance of
> > FontForge, otherwise the copying and pasting won't work).
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

I've never used Python scripts; I'm curious where I could find some 
examples, especially for managing composite glyphs. Or should I create 
one myself? Because I don't know Python. :(

I opened the file you indicated, but I don't understand anything...



Il 24/08/26 17:04, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> I'm sorry. I wrote a reply earlier that didn't pass through the 
> moderation because I attached a file. What I said was that I would 
> move to the Python's scripting functionality of FontForge to resolve 
> this issue. I'm pretty sure it delivers access to all the variables 
> required to do any type of composite generation. And, if you want, you 
> can go to FontForge's source code and look into the file 
> "fvcomposite.c", because that's probably where the bug you are 
> referring to can be found.
>
> There's one more hack that you can try. You could get a professional 
> font that already contains all the small caps that you want in 
> composite form, and then replace the splines of that with your splines 
> by copying and pasting(open both fonts through the same instance of 
> FontForge, otherwise the copying and pasting won't work).
>

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

I've already tried everything: inserting the marks into Unicode slots, 
inserting them into PUA... No luck.

Creating dedicated fonts, for example, for small caps, was done with the 
old PostScript, which allowed a standard of 258 glyphs. The advantage of 
TrueType and OpenType is that they have overcome this limitation...



Il 24/08/26 16:23, Gé van Gasteren ha scritto:
> Therefore, I thought you could temporarily copy your PUA .cap marks 
> into the slots for the combining marks and let the routine run, then 
> restore the combining marks.
> . And another thought you didn’t ask for:
> I must confess I don’t feel comfortable using the PUA for a stylistic 
> variant like small caps. I would instead give it its own font – but I 
> don’t know your situation. Maybe your application doesn’t let you 
> combine separate fonts easily.
> People with more knowledge may be able to advise how a small-caps 
> style can be included in a style set.
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2026 at 3:55 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users 
> <fon...@li...> wrote:
>
>
>     1) "If the script works well with the combining marks, you could copy
>     all your spacing marks into their slots, then let the script do
>     the work
>     (after you have adjusted their horizontal positioning...)."
>
>     I'm sorry, but I still don't understand.
>
>     I have ALL the modifiers (uni02b9-uni20ff) and ALL the combining
>     marks
>     (uni0300-uni0362) properly placed in their slots.
>
>     In PUA, I added some .cap diacritics so that the acute, grave, and
>     circumflex accents are slightly wider and less slanted above the
>     capital
>     letters, and so on.
>
>     With the anchors and the corresponding "mark" lookups in GPOS, I
>     position everything appropriately and indeed quickly obtain the
>     compound
>     glyphs.
>
>     The problem persists only with the usual three .cap marks (grave,
>     acute,
>     and macron): an anomaly because everything else works, and in these
>     three cases, and only in these three, it doesn't. Don't you think it
>     could be a FF bug? Because otherwise, in my opinion, this
>     inconsistent
>     behavior cannot be explained.
>
>
>     2. I don't understand what you mean by saying that apps use composite
>     glyphs less and less. In languages like Italian and French, words
>     with
>     grave and acute accents are constantly used, while in German, they
>     use
>     the umlaut; certainly, not in English... Not to mention Ancient Greek
>     (polytonic), which has a plethora of breathings and accents.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

-- 
Mauro Sacchetto
Santa Croce 1332a
30135 Venezia (VE)
tel.: 041 722938
cell.: 348 9690575
e-mail: mau...@ic...

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Thales M. <tha...@gm...>]

I'm sorry. I wrote a reply earlier that didn't pass through the moderation
because I attached a file. What I said was that I would move to the
Python's scripting functionality of FontForge to resolve this issue. I'm
pretty sure it delivers access to all the variables required to do any type
of composite generation. And, if you want, you can go to FontForge's source
code and look into the file "fvcomposite.c", because that's probably where
the bug you are referring to can be found.

There's one more hack that you can try. You could get a professional font
that already contains all the small caps that you want in composite form,
and then replace the splines of that with your splines by copying and
pasting(open both fonts through the same instance of FontForge, otherwise
the copying and pasting won't work).

On Mon, Aug 24, 2026 at 12:26 PM Gé van Gasteren <gev...@gm...>
wrote:

> All right,
> 1. Re. the FF automation:
> I now understand that the routine (creating composite glyphs from the
> parts) works well with the combining marks but not with your .cap marks.
> Therefore, I thought you could temporarily copy your PUA .cap marks into
> the slots for the combining marks and let the routine run, then restore the
> combining marks.
>
> 2. There are two ways to render accented characters:
> • Pick up the composite glyph from the font and display it. This is the
> classic method, easy on the software.
> • Pick up the necessary two (or more) components from the font and
> assembling the intended accented letter before displaying it.
> This requires having anchor points in the glyphs both for letters and
> (combining diacritical) marks, so the marks can be attached and positioned
> correctly.
> With this method, stacking accents becomes possible and is now supported
> in most applications:
>
> https://community.software.sil.org/uploads/default/original/2X/6/6cade8191daba93a2678088024ed27e5539b723b.png
>
> 3. And another thought you didn’t ask for:
> I must confess I don’t feel comfortable using the PUA for a stylistic
> variant like small caps. I would instead give it its own font – but I don’t
> know your situation. Maybe your application doesn’t let you combine
> separate fonts easily.
> People with more knowledge may be able to advise how a small-caps style
> can be included in a style set.
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2026 at 3:55 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users <
> fon...@li...> wrote:
>
>>
>> 1) "If the script works well with the combining marks, you could copy
>> all your spacing marks into their slots, then let the script do the work
>> (after you have adjusted their horizontal positioning...)."
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I still don't understand.
>>
>> I have ALL the modifiers (uni02b9-uni20ff) and ALL the combining marks
>> (uni0300-uni0362) properly placed in their slots.
>>
>> In PUA, I added some .cap diacritics so that the acute, grave, and
>> circumflex accents are slightly wider and less slanted above the capital
>> letters, and so on.
>>
>> With the anchors and the corresponding "mark" lookups in GPOS, I
>> position everything appropriately and indeed quickly obtain the compound
>> glyphs.
>>
>> The problem persists only with the usual three .cap marks (grave, acute,
>> and macron): an anomaly because everything else works, and in these
>> three cases, and only in these three, it doesn't. Don't you think it
>> could be a FF bug? Because otherwise, in my opinion, this inconsistent
>> behavior cannot be explained.
>>
>>
>> 2. I don't understand what you mean by saying that apps use composite
>> glyphs less and less. In languages like Italian and French, words with
>> grave and acute accents are constantly used, while in German, they use
>> the umlaut; certainly, not in English... Not to mention Ancient Greek
>> (polytonic), which has a plethora of breathings and accents.
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Gé v. G. <gev...@gm...>]

All right,
1. Re. the FF automation:
I now understand that the routine (creating composite glyphs from the
parts) works well with the combining marks but not with your .cap marks.
Therefore, I thought you could temporarily copy your PUA .cap marks into
the slots for the combining marks and let the routine run, then restore the
combining marks.

2. There are two ways to render accented characters:
• Pick up the composite glyph from the font and display it. This is the
classic method, easy on the software.
• Pick up the necessary two (or more) components from the font and
assembling the intended accented letter before displaying it.
This requires having anchor points in the glyphs both for letters and
(combining diacritical) marks, so the marks can be attached and positioned
correctly.
With this method, stacking accents becomes possible and is now supported in
most applications:
https://community.software.sil.org/uploads/default/original/2X/6/6cade8191daba93a2678088024ed27e5539b723b.png

3. And another thought you didn’t ask for:
I must confess I don’t feel comfortable using the PUA for a stylistic
variant like small caps. I would instead give it its own font – but I don’t
know your situation. Maybe your application doesn’t let you combine
separate fonts easily.
People with more knowledge may be able to advise how a small-caps style can
be included in a style set.

On Mon, Aug 24, 2026 at 3:55 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users <
fon...@li...> wrote:

>
> 1) "If the script works well with the combining marks, you could copy
> all your spacing marks into their slots, then let the script do the work
> (after you have adjusted their horizontal positioning...)."
>
> I'm sorry, but I still don't understand.
>
> I have ALL the modifiers (uni02b9-uni20ff) and ALL the combining marks
> (uni0300-uni0362) properly placed in their slots.
>
> In PUA, I added some .cap diacritics so that the acute, grave, and
> circumflex accents are slightly wider and less slanted above the capital
> letters, and so on.
>
> With the anchors and the corresponding "mark" lookups in GPOS, I
> position everything appropriately and indeed quickly obtain the compound
> glyphs.
>
> The problem persists only with the usual three .cap marks (grave, acute,
> and macron): an anomaly because everything else works, and in these
> three cases, and only in these three, it doesn't. Don't you think it
> could be a FF bug? Because otherwise, in my opinion, this inconsistent
> behavior cannot be explained.
>
>
> 2. I don't understand what you mean by saying that apps use composite
> glyphs less and less. In languages like Italian and French, words with
> grave and acute accents are constantly used, while in German, they use
> the umlaut; certainly, not in English... Not to mention Ancient Greek
> (polytonic), which has a plethora of breathings and accents.

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

1) "If the script works well with the combining marks, you could copy 
all your spacing marks into their slots, then let the script do the work 
(after you have adjusted their horizontal positioning...)."

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand.

I have ALL the modifiers (uni02b9-uni20ff) and ALL the combining marks 
(uni0300-uni0362) properly placed in their slots.

In PUA, I added some .cap diacritics so that the acute, grave, and 
circumflex accents are slightly wider and less slanted above the capital 
letters, and so on.

With the anchors and the corresponding "mark" lookups in GPOS, I 
position everything appropriately and indeed quickly obtain the compound 
glyphs.

The problem persists only with the usual three .cap marks (grave, acute, 
and macron): an anomaly because everything else works, and in these 
three cases, and only in these three, it doesn't. Don't you think it 
could be a FF bug? Because otherwise, in my opinion, this inconsistent 
behavior cannot be explained.


2. I don't understand what you mean by saying that apps use composite 
glyphs less and less. In languages ​​like Italian and French, words with 
grave and acute accents are constantly used, while in German, they use 
the umlaut; certainly, not in English... Not to mention Ancient Greek 
(polytonic), which has a plethora of breathings and accents.





Il 24/08/26 15:14, Gé van Gasteren ha scritto:
> Sorry, I didn’t make myself clear. I’ll try again:
>
> 1. This – I think – might be a solution for the difficulties you’re 
> facing right now:
> If the script works well with the combining marks, you could copy all 
> your spacing marks into their slots, then let the script do the work 
> (after you have adjusted their horizontal positioning…).
>
> 2. This is a separate rambling about the use of fonts:
> I’m wondering if it’s worth-while to put much attention on composite 
> glyphs, when applications are using them less and less.
> Maybe Thales Martins can shed more light on this matter?
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Gé v. G. <gev...@gm...>]

Sorry, I didn’t make myself clear. I’ll try again:

1. This – I think – might be a solution for the difficulties you’re facing
right now:
If the script works well with the combining marks, you could copy all your
spacing marks into their slots, then let the script do the work (after you
have adjusted their horizontal positioning…).

2. This is a separate rambling about the use of fonts:
I’m wondering if it’s worth-while to put much attention on composite
glyphs, when applications are using them less and less.
Maybe Thales Martins can shed more light on this matter?


On Mon, Aug 24, 2026 at 1:04 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users <
fon...@li...> wrote:

>
> "Precomposing" with anchors speeds up the work considerably, although -
> as always - manual adjustments are required.
>
> Sure, it's possible to copy the accents one by one over the base glyphs,
> but using references and anchors, if any changes are made, they're
> immediately reflected everywhere without having to edit the glyphs one
> by one again. It's a bit like working with styles in a word processor...
> I placed 40 acute accents, then I changed their design and now I must
> redo everything by hand. ):
>
> FF actually doesn't do a bad job; it recognizes .cap marks and - this is
> the mysterious problem - almost all .sc marks.As I've already written,
> grave.sc, acute.sc, and macron.sc, unlike all the others, don't.
>
> That's why this seems like a small bug to me.
>
>
>
> Il 24/08/26 12:39, Gé van Gasteren ha scritto:
> > On Sun, Aug 23, 2026 at 10:44 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users
> > <fon...@li...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >     If I set PreferSpacingAccents to OFF, it always uses only modifier
> >     glyphs
> >
> >
> > Sorry for interrupting with a silly idea maybe, but I wonder why you
> > can’t copy the accents you made into the composing counterparts?
> > You’d have to adjust their horizontal positions individually, I guess
> > – is that the main disadvantage?
> >
> > Composing diacritical marks are the future; the precomposed characters
> > are kept for backward compatibility of course, but these days, apps
> > don’t use them as much.
> >

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

"Precomposing" with anchors speeds up the work considerably, although - 
as always - manual adjustments are required.

Sure, it's possible to copy the accents one by one over the base glyphs, 
but using references and anchors, if any changes are made, they're 
immediately reflected everywhere without having to edit the glyphs one 
by one again. It's a bit like working with styles in a word processor... 
I placed 40 acute accents, then I changed their design and now I must 
redo everything by hand. ):

FF actually doesn't do a bad job; it recognizes .cap marks and - this is 
the mysterious problem - almost all .sc marks.As I've already written, 
grave.sc, acute.sc, and macron.sc, unlike all the others, don't.

That's why this seems like a small bug to me.



Il 24/08/26 12:39, Gé van Gasteren ha scritto:
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2026 at 10:44 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users 
> <fon...@li...> wrote:
>
>
>     If I set PreferSpacingAccents to OFF, it always uses only modifier
>     glyphs
>
>
> Sorry for interrupting with a silly idea maybe, but I wonder why you 
> can’t copy the accents you made into the composing counterparts?
> You’d have to adjust their horizontal positions individually, I guess 
> – is that the main disadvantage?
>
> Composing diacritical marks are the future; the precomposed characters 
> are kept for backward compatibility of course, but these days, apps 
> don’t use them as much.
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

-- 
Mauro Sacchetto
Santa Croce 1332a
30135 Venezia (VE)
tel.: 041 722938
cell.: 348 9690575
e-mail: mau...@ic...

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Gé v. G. <gev...@gm...>]

On Sun, Aug 23, 2026 at 10:44 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users <
fon...@li...> wrote:

>
> If I set PreferSpacingAccents to OFF, it always uses only modifier glyphs


Sorry for interrupting with a silly idea maybe, but I wonder why you can’t
copy the accents you made into the composing counterparts?
You’d have to adjust their horizontal positions individually, I guess – is
that the main disadvantage?

Composing diacritical marks are the future; the precomposed characters are
kept for backward compatibility of course, but these days, apps don’t use
them as much.

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

Of course!

If I set PreferSpacingAccents to OFF, it always uses only modifier glyphs.

If I set it to ON, it uses .sc, except in those three cases.

That's why I suspect there's a small bug in FF...



Il 23/08/26 21:28, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> Even if you tweak the "PreferSpacingAccents" option? You have to try 
> all the combinations.
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     fontforge-users mailing list
>     fon...@li...
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>     http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>
>
>

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Thales M. <tha...@gm...>]

Even if you tweak the "PreferSpacingAccents" option? You have to try all
the combinations.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2026 at 4:16 PM Mauro Sacchetto via fontforge-users <
fon...@li...> wrote:

> The idea seems very suggestive, however...
>
> I followed your instructions by backgrounding the grave accent in the
> modifier and in the combining.
>
> I created grave.sc in PUA and tried to create agrave.sc.
>
> However, FF doesn't recognize grave.sc, and the composite glyph only has
> the base glyph and no accent :(
>
>
>
>
> Il 23/08/26 18:58, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> > So there's your solution. Delete the glyphs that you don't want(move
> > them to the background layer and delete the foreground), generate all
> > the composites and then move the marks back to the foreground.
> >
>
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     fontforge-users mailing list
> >     fon...@li...
> >     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> >     http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

The idea seems very suggestive, however...

I followed your instructions by backgrounding the grave accent in the 
modifier and in the combining.

I created grave.sc in PUA and tried to create agrave.sc.

However, FF doesn't recognize grave.sc, and the composite glyph only has 
the base glyph and no accent :(




Il 23/08/26 18:58, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> So there's your solution. Delete the glyphs that you don't want(move 
> them to the background layer and delete the foreground), generate all 
> the composites and then move the marks back to the foreground.
>

>     _______________________________________________
>     fontforge-users mailing list
>     fon...@li...
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>     http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>
>

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Thales M. <tha...@gm...>]

So there's your solution. Delete the glyphs that you don't want(move them
to the background layer and delete the foreground), generate all the
composites and then move the marks back to the foreground.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2026, 06:31 Mauro Sacchetto <mau...@gm...>
wrote:

> Oh, now I see! I can unlink or modify manually the components to
> preserve the references.
>
> I've done other experiments, but I can't make sense of them.
>
> I create a font from scratch (actually, I copied and pasted it from
> somewhere else), but without adding the modifiers and combining marks;
> in PUA, I insert the various marks (grave, acute, circumflex, ...,
> macron, and breve) in the appropriate slots. The .sc glyphs are composed
> correctly with the .sc marks.
>
> Then I insert the modifiers and combining marks; at this point,
> grave.sc, breve.sc, and macron.sc are no longer recognized (all the
> others are), and the glyphs in these three cases are composed using the
> modifier (gravecomb, etc.) and not the .sc mark.
>
> I don't understand anything...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Il 23/08/26 01:08, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> > The algorithms are very probably full of bugs, far from perfect. Fonts
> > still need a lot of manual work to be produced. You should look into
> > Python's FontForge class documentation to see if it's possible to do
> > that by code. Chat bots can help you with that. I, every now and then,
> > use scripts to do those kinds of things, like when I wrote a script
> > that adds composite characters to the same kerning class as their main
> > reference. The scripting in FontForge's class is limited though; there
> > are some things it won't do, like manipulating splines.
> >
> > The procedure that I suggested involves using Edit -> Unlink
> > Reference. You go and change the spline of the accent that is being
> > used by the automatic composite generation to what you want, generate
> > the composites, unlink the references to those generated glyphs, and
> > change the accent glyph back to what it was before. The downside is
> > that, like this, you will end up with accented glyphs containing only
> > splines instead of the references to the fundamental glyphs. Using
> > layers also helps, as you can store the original splines in a
> > different layer, and there are commands to transfer a whole layer to
> > another, for all glyphs at the same time.
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 22, 2026 at 8:10 PM Mauro Sacchetto
> > <mau...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> >     Another issue: I create omacron.sc <http://omacron.sc>, FF ignores
> >     macron.sc <http://macron.sc> and uses the
> >     modifier (U-02c9).
> >
> >     However, in GPOS lookup "Mark" the correct glyph appears with
> >     macron.sc <http://macron.sc>.
> >
> >     Since this behavior only occurs with macron, grave, and acute,
> >     couldn't
> >     it be a small bug in the automatic glyph construction mechanisms?
> >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > _______________________________________________
> >     > fontforge-users mailing list
> >     > fon...@li...
> >     > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> >     > http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@gm...>]

Oh, now I see! I can unlink or modify manually the components to 
preserve the references.

I've done other experiments, but I can't make sense of them.

I create a font from scratch (actually, I copied and pasted it from 
somewhere else), but without adding the modifiers and combining marks; 
in PUA, I insert the various marks (grave, acute, circumflex, ..., 
macron, and breve) in the appropriate slots. The .sc glyphs are composed 
correctly with the .sc marks.

Then I insert the modifiers and combining marks; at this point, 
grave.sc, breve.sc, and macron.sc are no longer recognized (all the 
others are), and the glyphs in these three cases are composed using the 
modifier (gravecomb, etc.) and not the .sc mark.

I don't understand anything...







Il 23/08/26 01:08, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> The algorithms are very probably full of bugs, far from perfect. Fonts 
> still need a lot of manual work to be produced. You should look into 
> Python's FontForge class documentation to see if it's possible to do 
> that by code. Chat bots can help you with that. I, every now and then, 
> use scripts to do those kinds of things, like when I wrote a script 
> that adds composite characters to the same kerning class as their main 
> reference. The scripting in FontForge's class is limited though; there 
> are some things it won't do, like manipulating splines.
>
> The procedure that I suggested involves using Edit -> Unlink 
> Reference. You go and change the spline of the accent that is being 
> used by the automatic composite generation to what you want, generate 
> the composites, unlink the references to those generated glyphs, and 
> change the accent glyph back to what it was before. The downside is 
> that, like this, you will end up with accented glyphs containing only 
> splines instead of the references to the fundamental glyphs. Using 
> layers also helps, as you can store the original splines in a 
> different layer, and there are commands to transfer a whole layer to 
> another, for all glyphs at the same time.
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2026 at 8:10 PM Mauro Sacchetto 
> <mau...@gm...> wrote:
>
>     Another issue: I create omacron.sc <http://omacron.sc>, FF ignores
>     macron.sc <http://macron.sc> and uses the
>     modifier (U-02c9).
>
>     However, in GPOS lookup "Mark" the correct glyph appears with
>     macron.sc <http://macron.sc>.
>
>     Since this behavior only occurs with macron, grave, and acute,
>     couldn't
>     it be a small bug in the automatic glyph construction mechanisms?
>
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > fontforge-users mailing list
>     > fon...@li...
>     > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
>     > http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Thales M. <tha...@gm...>]

The algorithms are very probably full of bugs, far from perfect. Fonts
still need a lot of manual work to be produced. You should look into
Python's FontForge class documentation to see if it's possible to do that
by code. Chat bots can help you with that. I, every now and then, use
scripts to do those kinds of things, like when I wrote a script that adds
composite characters to the same kerning class as their main reference. The
scripting in FontForge's class is limited though; there are some things it
won't do, like manipulating splines.

The procedure that I suggested involves using Edit -> Unlink Reference. You
go and change the spline of the accent that is being used by the automatic
composite generation to what you want, generate the composites, unlink the
references to those generated glyphs, and change the accent glyph back to
what it was before. The downside is that, like this, you will end up with
accented glyphs containing only splines instead of the references to the
fundamental glyphs. Using layers also helps, as you can store the original
splines in a different layer, and there are commands to transfer a whole
layer to another, for all glyphs at the same time.

On Sat, Aug 22, 2026 at 8:10 PM Mauro Sacchetto <mau...@gm...>
wrote:

> Another issue: I create omacron.sc, FF ignores macron.sc and uses the
> modifier (U-02c9).
>
> However, in GPOS lookup "Mark" the correct glyph appears with macron.sc.
>
> Since this behavior only occurs with macron, grave, and acute, couldn't
> it be a small bug in the automatic glyph construction mechanisms?
>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > fontforge-users mailing list
> > fon...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> > http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html
>

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@gm...>]

Another issue: I create omacron.sc, FF ignores macron.sc and uses the 
modifier (U-02c9).

However, in GPOS lookup "Mark" the correct glyph appears with macron.sc.

Since this behavior only occurs with macron, grave, and acute, couldn't 
it be a small bug in the automatic glyph construction mechanisms?

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fontforge-users mailing list
> fon...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/fontforge-users
> http://fontforge.10959.n7.nabble.com/User-f8781.html

Re: [fontforge-users] Composite small caps

[Mauro S. <mau...@ic...>]

==========================================================================================================================

  You also have the option of replacing the spline with one that you 
want, producing the composites, unlinking the reference, then changing 
it back

==========================================================================================================================

I don't understand the procedure you're suggesting here.

Otherwise, the glyphs are all present in the correct slots.

I use anchors for positioning: that's why using mark .sc allows me to 
place them in more appropriate locations.

The mysterious fact remains that, among other things, the breve.sc and 
macron.sc glyphs are both present, placed in the correct slots, but one 
is used and the other is not...

Thanks!

m




Il 22/08/26 19:27, Thales Martins ha scritto:
> Make sure you have all the diacritics actually slotted and drawn. 
> Sometimes FontForge gets a similar spline elsewhere when it can't find 
> the glyph it wants. The algorithm that generates those composite and 
> accented glyphs is very intricate. You also have the option of 
> replacing the spline with one that you want, producing the composites, 
> unlinking the reference, then changing it back, if you don't mind 
> having a larger file. You could also open the .sfd file at a text 
> editor and replace the reference glyph codes with the "find and 
> replace" tool. Remember that FontForge guesses the position of the 
> marks when generating composites, but having anchors help.