firebird-website Mailing List for Firebird (Page 22)

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At 03:21 AM 23/12/2009, you wrote:
>Seems that i'm banned from it with my address
>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Firebird-general
>
>You may not join the Firebird-general group because you have been
>banned from this group by the moderator (Email address banned:
>ma...@gm...).
>Moderators may ban users at any time, for any reason. As long as you are
>banned, you may not post to the group or access any of the group features.
>Only the group moderator may remove this ban.

Yes, one of our moderators banned you on Dec. 16.  I don't know the reason but, given your habit of posting links from far and wide, the most likely answer is that the message came up for moderation due to a blacklisted spam link inside. We always ban the senders of messages tagged as spam. I'm just trying to track through and find out how to unban you.

Helen

Seems that i'm banned from it with my address
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Firebird-general

You may not join the Firebird-general group because you have been
banned from this group by the moderator (Email address banned:
ma...@gm...).
Moderators may ban users at any time, for any reason. As long as you are
banned, you may not post to the group or access any of the group features.
Only the group moderator may remove this ban.

At 02:18 AM 19/12/2009, marius adrian popa wrote:
>>
>> The other servers are more challenging, requiring radical reconstruction using new versions of underlying software, and will take time.
>>
>> For now, if you find broken links (other than those to our other servers) then please feel free to inform us via a message to this list.
>>
>> More info as it comes to light.
>
>Hello ,
>Can we help with this ?
>I started checking the links with gurlchecker from ubuntu
>I will send the list of broken links

Please don't.  The website contains at LOT of pages that are obsolete and broken links that we are interested in will be mostly PDFs that are a) not public documents and b) exist in private backup stores. 

So - genuinely - we only want links that were clicked on from within our *visible* website and came up Not Found.

>I think that if is nedded i can make an secondary copy on some of
>other servers , maybe with rsync so these things should'nt happen (secondary backup site)

At the moment we would be grateful if people would not try to do massive ad hoc operations on our content: just let sleeping dogs lie, please.  The admins group is engaged in figuring out one or more fallback strategies and assigning specific responsibilities.  When we know what we want, it is *very* likely we'll need to come back here and ask for specific help, so stay tuned.

Thanks,
Helen

On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 2:26 AM, Helen Borrie <he...@ii...> wrote:
> Thanks to the progressive death of the NAS server from which all our Internet facilities are served, we lost everything - Tracker, website, Wiki, Windows snapshots and news mirrors - piece-by-piece over the past days.
>
> By gargantuan effort, Sean Leyne and his colleagues at Broadview have been reconstructing our infrastructure from scratch. The main website http://www.firebirdsql.org is up but some pieces, such as Windows snapshots, are still missing.  Windows snapshots should be available some time today.
>
> The other servers are more challenging, requiring radical reconstruction using new versions of underlying software, and will take time.
>
> For now, if you find broken links (other than those to our other servers) then please feel free to inform us via a message to this list.
>
> More info as it comes to light.

Hello ,
Can we help with this ?
I started checking the links with gurlchecker from ubuntu
I will send the list of broken links
I think that if is nedded i can make an secondary copy on some of
other servers , maybe with rsync
so these things should'nt happen (secondary backup site)

>
> Helen
>
>
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>

Thanks to the progressive death of the NAS server from which all our Internet facilities are served, we lost everything - Tracker, website, Wiki, Windows snapshots and news mirrors - piece-by-piece over the past days. 

By gargantuan effort, Sean Leyne and his colleagues at Broadview have been reconstructing our infrastructure from scratch. The main website http://www.firebirdsql.org is up but some pieces, such as Windows snapshots, are still missing.  Windows snapshots should be available some time today.

The other servers are more challenging, requiring radical reconstruction using new versions of underlying software, and will take time. 

For now, if you find broken links (other than those to our other servers) then please feel free to inform us via a message to this list. 

More info as it comes to light. 

Helen

here is the announcement

http://www.firebirdnews.org/?p=3927

     [ http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/WEB-25?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Karol Bieniaszewski updated WEB-25:
-----------------------------------

    Description: 
Default web site sort all bug raports by "Key" field 
i suppose that will be better
when default sort field will be "Updated"

or the best
add default sorting to
"Configure your Issue Navigator" option :)

  was:
Default web site sort all bug raports by "Key" field 
i suppose that will be better
when default sort field will be "Updated"

> Default sorting is by "Key" i suppose better will be by "Updated"
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                 Key: WEB-25
>                 URL: http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/WEB-25
>             Project: Web site
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Karol Bieniaszewski
>            Assignee: Pavel Cisar
>            Priority: Trivial
>
> Default web site sort all bug raports by "Key" field 
> i suppose that will be better
> when default sort field will be "Updated"
> or the best
> add default sorting to
> "Configure your Issue Navigator" option :)

-- 
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     [ http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/WEB-25?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Karol Bieniaszewski updated WEB-25:
-----------------------------------

    Priority: Trivial  (was: Major)

> Default sorting is by "Key" i suppose better will be by "Updated"
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                 Key: WEB-25
>                 URL: http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/WEB-25
>             Project: Web site
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Karol Bieniaszewski
>            Assignee: Pavel Cisar
>            Priority: Trivial
>
> Default web site sort all bug raports by "Key" field 
> i suppose that will be better
> when default sort field will be "Updated"

-- 
This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
-
If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/secure/Administrators.jspa
-
For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

     [ http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/WEB-25?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]

Karol Bieniaszewski updated WEB-25:
-----------------------------------

    Summary: Default sorting is by "Key" i suppose better will be by "Updated"  (was: Default sorting is by "Key" i suppose better is by "Updated")

> Default sorting is by "Key" i suppose better will be by "Updated"
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                 Key: WEB-25
>                 URL: http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/WEB-25
>             Project: Web site
>          Issue Type: Improvement
>            Reporter: Karol Bieniaszewski
>            Assignee: Pavel Cisar
>
> Default web site sort all bug raports by "Key" field 
> i suppose that will be better
> when default sort field will be "Updated"

-- 
This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
-
If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the administrators: http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/secure/Administrators.jspa
-
For more information on JIRA, see: http://www.atlassian.com/software/jira

Default sorting is by "Key" i suppose better is by "Updated"
------------------------------------------------------------

                 Key: WEB-25
                 URL: http://tracker.firebirdsql.org/browse/WEB-25
             Project: Web site
          Issue Type: Improvement
            Reporter: Karol Bieniaszewski
            Assignee: Pavel Cisar

Default web site sort all bug raports by "Key" field 
i suppose that will be better
when default sort field will be "Updated"

-- 
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-
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Pavel Cisar wrote:
> 
> First, the decision group already exists (everybody from the project who
> cares), and hangs on right here in this list. Second, it couldn't be
> *responsible* for anything, as it's just talking heads. Only workers
> could be responsible for their work.

Somebody must be responsible for coordination (e.g. between the project 
and the web developers by Marius) and for spending the collected money 
properly ;-) Also, we had an agreement that it makes no sense to decide 
everything by the public voting, but sometimes the workers may not be 
responsible for particular decisions either (e.g. the web designer 
suggesting a visual style totally conflicting with the Firebird image), 
so somebody should take care about those decisions.

That was my point. But as soon as your words imply me being inside the 
decision making group, I'm not going to argue anymore <g> Instead, I'll 
be just making sure everything goes well.

Dmitry

Giovanni Premuda napsal(a):
> Pavel Cisar wrote:
>> If there will be something to share, we'll certainly share it. Right
>> now, there is nothing to share, yet.
>>   
> OK, now we have language problems. What I mean is to share the *burden* 
> of the work to be done, i.e. divide the work with other volunteers.
> Not the *results* of the work.

But do you understand that we yet have to get to the point where the
work could be shared? It means that we have to prepare the chunks of
work that could be divided and shared by many in a way that people
wouldn't step on each other toes, including at least brief instructions
for tasks need to be done. Or do you want us just to dump everything
that makes our current site as is on you without any instruction what,
where and how we would like to get from here to there? Please, be
patient. It will all come and you would have plenty of opportunities to
get your hands dirty if you'd be interested.

best regards
Pavel Cisar

Pavel Cisar wrote:
> If there will be something to share, we'll certainly share it. Right
> now, there is nothing to share, yet.
>   
OK, now we have language problems. What I mean is to share the *burden* 
of the work to be done, i.e. divide the work with other volunteers.
Not the *results* of the work.

-- 
Giovanni Premuda

Pavel Cisar wrote:

> If you really need to know *everything* at micromanagement level, then I
> deliberately decided to use reStructured Text because:
>   
Sorry Pavel, I throw the towel again.
My hope was that you and Helen started  thinking in a community 
perspective *in order to get more volunteers to do actual work!*
Good luck with *your* site.
Giovanni

-- 
Giovanni Premuda

Giovanni Premuda napsal(a):
> Pavel Cisar wrote:
>> It means that we have allocated time to do some actual work, and 
>> we're going to do some initial groundwork that has to be done
>> before more hands could start to work on more content, actual
>> design, layout, graphics, whatever.
>>
> Work that could be shared with the community, if only you would share
> it with us. It would also be a good starting point for most of us to
> get our hands dirty.

If there will be something to share, we'll certainly share it. Right
now, there is nothing to share, yet.

> By the way reStructuredText and the template structures *are*
> management decisions.

No, they're *technical* decisions. And both could be easily changed
anytime down the road.

If you really need to know *everything* at micromanagement level, then I
deliberately decided to use reStructured Text because:

0. We have to use something instead HTML.
1. I know it well.
2. It's basically just a plain text that doesn't need any special tools
to edit it, has no markup (well, sort of minimal for some things and
it's actually more a writing convention than real markup) and could be
easily transformed programmatically to whatever markup we would
eventually decide to use.
3. I'm going to hack up some code for automatic conversion from HTML to
reStructured Text, so we don't need to clean it up manually and can
focus on shuffling simple blocks of text around.

So, the rationale is that we would quickly and with minimal effort
convert HTML into "portable" format that's easy to work with for
everyone while it doesn't impose any significant restriction for further
processing and "change of mind" any time later.

About templates, their format wasn't decided yet. I'll worry about it
once we'll get to that, but now it's premature. Anyway, it could be
changed any time, although the set of options would be certainly limited
to those supported by underlying technology behind the site.

best regards
Pavel Cisar

Pavel Cisar wrote:
> It means that we have allocated time to do some actual work, and
> we're going to do some initial groundwork that has to be done before
> more hands could start to work on more content, actual design, layout,
> graphics, whatever. 
Work that could be shared with the community, if only you would share it 
with us.
It would also be a good starting point for most of us to get our hands 
dirty.

By the way reStructuredText and the template structures *are* management 
decisions.

-- 
Giovanni Premuda 

Pavel Cisar wrote,

> If anybody wants to participate in the ground work, its welcome.
> But it's really boring and nothing interesting there.

But it has to be done. I can spare a few hours (not a lot!), so if
I can do something useful please let me know.

Paul Vinkenoog

Dmitry Yemanov napsal(a):
> 
> I thought there should be some decision making group to be created and 
> introduced here, which is expected to be responsible. Now you speak 
> about various activities, but I still have no idea how it's going to be 
> managed. While I volunteer to assist, I don't see my role in this effort 
> yet.

First, the decision group already exists (everybody from the project who
cares), and hangs on right here in this list. Second, it couldn't be
*responsible* for anything, as it's just talking heads. Only workers
could be responsible for their work. Certainly they would keep up
"fixing" their work until the "decision group" would be happy, as it's
our usual routine. However, it wouldn't make any sense to have all
generals and no indians, so I managed to secure two indians, me and
Helen. It means that we have allocated time to do some actual work, and
we're going to do some initial groundwork that has to be done before
more hands could start to work on more content, actual design, layout,
graphics, whatever. What we're going to do is breaking up the current
site content we'd like to carry on into chunks of data without markup
(actually, reStructured Text) and basic code/data structures for
repeating data patterns to be used in templates, and some plumbing code
for the site so one could see something assembled from content. We'll
also produce some *raw* templates along the lines discussed here. Then
everybody can play with the page templates to define actual layout,
create more content etc.

So, right now, there is nothing and nobody we could *manage*, except us,
and until the initial work isn't done, so the final site could start to
get shape, we would just go in circles and nothing would get done.

If anybody wants to participate in the ground work, its welcome. But
it's really boring and nothing interesting there. The actual fun and
"decision making" would start once you would have brinks you can use to
build the site, but so far there aren't any and anything we would sketch
here without them would be just cloud castles on paper.

Hence I would like suggest to wrap the initial phase of discussion as it
seems that we have settled on *raw* site structure and it's enough
information to start the groundwork. I'll inform you here once the basic
blocks would be ready so you can start to carve the new site. However,
as I mentioned previously, it will not happen overnight. It would take
at least a week, and we have to QA and get out the 2.5 RC1 first and we
also have regular jobs.

best regards
Pavel Cisar

Dmitry Yemanov wrote:
> I thought there should be some decision making group to be created and
> introduced here, which is expected to be responsible. Now you speak 
> about various activities, but I still have no idea how it's going to be 
> managed. While I volunteer to assist, I don't see my role in this effort 
> yet.
>   
Me too. I'm quite willing to help with tedious tasks, like cleaning up 
the markup of current contents, but only if the decision-making process 
is public. One thing is having the effort managed by a steering group, 
another thing is having the decision making  hidden behind closed doors.
Successful open source projects are managed in the open, even if the 
final decisions are taken by the individuals that accept responsibility 
for certain areas.

-- 
Giovanni Premuda

Pavel Cisar wrote:
> 
> Already set into motion. I've started to work on the plumbing followed
> by raw selected content conversion, but it's interrupted by imminent QA
> on 2.5 RC1 release. Then Helen would start to tidy up the content and
> designers could start they work.

I thought there should be some decision making group to be created and 
introduced here, which is expected to be responsible. Now you speak 
about various activities, but I still have no idea how it's going to be 
managed. While I volunteer to assist, I don't see my role in this effort 
yet.

Dmitry

Rustam Gadjimuradov napsal(a):
> 
> Pavel, Dmitry, Carlos - may be it's time to resume
> this thread and form the teams/workgroups ?

Already set into motion. I've started to work on the plumbing followed
by raw selected content conversion, but it's interrupted by imminent QA
on 2.5 RC1 release. Then Helen would start to tidy up the content and
designers could start they work.

best regards
Pavel Cisar

Dmitry Yemanov
> This is a "hot news" balloon, i.e. it would represent something we'd 
> like to make more visible for the visitors. Our awards (as in my 
> example), new big sponsor, pleasing benchmark results, etc. Its contents 
> is expected to change regularly.

Ah, OK. I think you positioned it as more static thing.
I think about it too - in addition to already mentioned -
most important news (conference, etc), major releases
(even alpha/beta) etc. If no important news/releases -
there may be "donate" button or NewYear Greeting. :)

> IMHO, such PR element does belong to the home page.

Sure.

Pavel, Dmitry, Carlos - may be it's time to resume
this thread and form the teams/workgroups ?

WBR, GR

> Yes, i think about this way too. But, some of moments - such as
> main color scheme, menu and navigation scheme, site structure
> and home page structure+blocks+content - must and can be
> "selected" before designers begin to work.

kuler.adobe.com is a good starting point for creating site color  
profile.

> m also in favor of the KIS principle. Text based, without much
> graphics (maybe except the home page), no expandable sub-menus.

+1
Any graphic elements except logo requires work as site grows.
And may easily become blurry as new fonts / elements are added.

 > I think, 5-7 menu items is optimal. My suggestion -
 > Home - Downloads - Documentation - Development -
 > News & Events - Support & Community - About.

+1
5-7 elements, gives good overview.

 > For additional navigation sub-pages can have additional
 > menu bar (under the top) or left menu column - as Carlos
 > already said, i agree. Also i agree about 3-4 level limitting.

I see good reason for second topmenu level - diminishes menu options  
to the left (2-level) to a
fair amount.

 > This demo has thrown up a number of things on my 'test environment'  
and
 > highlights one of the problems of static html. I have text  
overlying boxes on
 > some browsers.

IMHO, pages, flat files or in a database, should contain no html,  
wikisyntax / markdown lasts better over time.
Final cross-browser output is the template responsibility.
And hierarcical content structure keep things in place and may  
autogenerate menus and teasers / listnings.

> The topical approach you suggest has one crucial issue for me: it  
> forces
> us to mix information of interests for different kind of site users  
> into
> humongous resource sections (especially the download and documentation
> section is problematic). Just take a look at our current site for what
> and how much information we would have to "sink" into these two  
> sections!

Selected download item may contain shortcuts to appropriate elements  
in the docs (or/and shortcuts to current pdf's).
"Release info, configuration" etc may all be in hierarcical docs.

regards
//Tjelvar eriksson

Dmitry Yemanov wrote:
>
> Just to clarify, as I haven't mentioned this block in my description.
>
> ...
> IMHO, such PR element does belong to 
> the home page.
>
>   
+1

-- 
Giovanni Premuda

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