firebird-website — Everything about Firebird's web site

RE: [Firebird-website] (no subject)

[Kaputnik <de...@ka...>]

Hi pavel.

Well, although I could guarantee more or less steady uptime simply, because
the server I am connected to is part of the german internet-backbone, but it
is not a perfect solution anyway.

If sourceforge offers mySQL for the FB-website, lets do the website still
dynamically in php and mySql, and after FB1.0 porge VALinux as much as
possible to install FB on the webservers :-))

The codebase for dynamically building the stuff in mySQL is already
programmed, and I could put up some agreement with my friend to get the
source...he is eraning his money designing dynamic webpages from db's, so I
think, it should be pretty stable....

A very large plus for any dynamic system is, that even the most no-html
person (myself for example) could add content to the site simply by using
some db-aware client app (content manager) and the php builds the structure
and sites on the fly....
with linux-server and high bandwith on the VALinux-side, speed shouldn't be
an issue...I don't expect to have the FB-site more hits than a Microsoft
site, and they insist officially on having ASP running (well, it is a fake,
everybody knows, but asp is slow as hell, php is multitudes faster)...

btw, if you need more webspace for downloads or large articles, I have
several gigs to spare, and they are pretty fast at least for european
visitors (100mbit/s)....

for the future, I tend to think of mirror-sites anyway.....have a start-page
like PostreSQL, and redirect the visitors to the appropriate
mirror-server....another plus for a dynamic webpage.....mirrors can be
synchronized in both directions via db-replication :-)))


CU, Kaputnik
(Nick Josipovic)

ni...@ka... <mailto:ni...@ka...>
ka...@ka... <mailto:ka...@ka...>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
superior Client/Server programming:
www.IBObjects.com <http://www.ibobjects.com/>
a nice Tool for Interbase:
www.InterbaseWorkbench.com <http://www.InterbaseWorkbench.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: fir...@li...
> [mailto:fir...@li...]On Behalf Of Pavel
> Cisar
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 11:31 PM
> To: fir...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Firebird-website] (no subject)
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I agree with Helen that we should put first things first :) So we
> should first decide about requirements to the site, next to its
> structure etc. But we can also summarize the facts, to set up
> margins for decisions.
>
> So, few facts:
>
>
<snip>

RE: [Firebird-website] (no subject)

[Pavel C. <pc...@at...>]

Hi,

I agree with Helen that we should put first things first :) So we 
should first decide about requirements to the site, next to its 
structure etc. But we can also summarize the facts, to set up 
margins for decisions.

So, few facts:

We have private MySQL database + PHP4 at SourceForge. I don't 
know the limits for database size (should we ask SF staff ?). We 
have cca 100MB web space here (more could be negotiated). 
Everyone in project can access that space through SSH/SCP (it's 
a great plus). The Apache server is not overloaded (of course, it 
have a peaks, IMHO mostly due maintenance) and average 
response time is acceptable if not very good (and should be in the 
future, because VA Linux care about this and upgrade hw when 
necessary). Also connectivity to the NET is very good (check for 
yourself the SF doc page about that :). I'm not sure about backups, 
so we have to do that ourselves for web space and for database too 
(web is in CVS, so it's in safe if someone keep backup of daily 
CVS tarballs, BTW did that someone ? I've few whole cvs tarballs, 
but I don't do that regularly. It's general admin issue!!!). I do 
database dump + backup every two weeks or so. We can use CGI, 
but I'm not sure about the policy. I guess that CGI should be at 
least reviewed by SF staff, because they care about security. 
Actually, I didn't investigate about CGI. We CAN'T set up another 
database (FB) or environment (we should have standard Linux 
tools, like pearl, python, sending mail etc. but I don't know the 
details), nor reach any service outside the SF domain from our web 
(php), so plans about database at our own server are not doable. 
SF staff is very careful about security (and that's good). We can 
also get the VHOST, i.e. our own domain for web site. All in all, the 
quality of service at SourceForge is superb (to some extent :).

It's a fact, that our web could be anywhere and from some angle, it 
could be better if it would be, but... The host'll have to:

- good connectivity to NET, guaranteed uptime (TBF)
- secure access for many people (web team) and admin tools at 
their disposal
- regular backups
- tools to run the site (php, zope, whatever)

Some notes about tools and infrastructure: It should (or shall?) be 
open source, so we can tweak them and adapt them to our needs 
as their change. And yes, it would be nice if we would be able to 
eat our own dog food (FB).

To Nick Josipovic: I'm not against your proposal (it's great), but 
take to consideration what I wrote above.

Best regards
-- Pavel

RE: [Firebird-website] (no subject)

[Kaputnik <de...@ka...>]

Hi,

a friend of mine is building very dynamic html-pages with mySQL and php4. It
is very easy to maintain, except for the lack of FK-constraints in mySQL
:-))
he has a nice framework, some HTML-Templates, and a database containing the
content.
If some article has to be put up, it is simply stored as row in the
DB-table.
the complete navigation is done with php, and all links are built
automatically...so, with a small db-tool in delphi (which I built for him)
every dummy could add a new article or complete new content including new
navigation-links (provided, he has db-access)-
I for myself would very much like to have the FB-website put up with either
php4 and FB as backend or even Delphi (isapi) and FB-DB as backend.
I know, that putting an FB-server up on the sourceforge-site would be
difficult, but I definitely can spare a dedicated FB-server here at my site
(connected via switch with 100MBit/s to the internet), on which the php4 on
sourceforge could have access to.
Putting up the php4-framework is only a matter of time and money (i have to
pay him, even if he is my firend, but would do it, if you like the idea).
This way, the FB-website would be the best marketing for FB itself, as the
site would have a small "Built with FireBird" tag :-))


P.S. I definitely hope, that the talk in this new list will be productive,
and everybody is friendly to the others ;-)
My 2 cents...

CU, Kaputnik
(Nick Josipovic)

ni...@ka... <mailto:ni...@ka...>
ka...@ka... <mailto:ka...@ka...>
--------------------------------------------------------------
superior Client/Server programming:
www.IBObjects.com <http://www.IBObjects.com>
a nice tool for Interbase:
www.InterbaseWorkbench.com <http://www.InterbaseWorkbench.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: fir...@li...
> [mailto:fir...@li...]On Behalf Of
> pc...@at...
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 5:58 PM
>
> Hi
>
> I agree in principle to all the ideas you proposed.
> I just feel that the site does have the potential
> to become very big. We should in my opinion right
> from the start use a tool to do management. I am
> not familiar realy with such tools so I dont
> know what is best. It is easier to start right
> and with a learning curve than to go over to a
> tool to manage the website once we realize we cant
> cope any longer. Such a tool would also enable us to,
> with more willingness consider new ideas that
> would entail extra work, because it would not envolve
> that much extra work. I have something in mind
> but I think we should first agree to use something
> like that or not.
>
> Groetnis
> Gerhardus
>

[Firebird-website] Deciding tools?

[Helen B. <he...@di...>]

At 05:57 PM 12-05-01 +0200, Gerhardus wrote:

>Hi
>
>I agree in principle to all the ideas you proposed.
>I just feel that the site does have the potential
>to become very big. We should in my opinion right
>from the start use a tool to do management.=20

Whilst I agree that a toolset is going to be needed, I think that FIRST i=
t has to be determined what sorts of things you need tools for, how the n=
avigation works (which Pavel touched on when mentioning drill-downs, etc.=
) and, above all, what the site structure ought to be.  *Then* one looks =
for tools (FREE!) that can do what's wanted.  IOW, this is a normal devel=
opment project from requirements-taking through to implementation and gro=
wth...

Step 1:  What do we need to build?
Step 2:  What's needed to build it?  (tools, personnel, source materials)
... more bits ...

Step n:  What tools do we need (have already, can get easily, have people=
 who can test-drive them, can fit developers' platforms as well as the ho=
st platform, etc.)
Steps n..... Build, implement, test, maintain...

A evolutionary process during building and implementation is going to pro=
duce more satisfactory results than a prescription, too (spoken from expe=
rience).  Need to be able to try test pieces out on the users.

Just more thoughts on the pile at the moment.

Cheers,
Helen

All for Open and Open for All=20
InterBase Developer Initiative =B7 http://www.interbase2000.org
_______________________________________________________

[Firebird-website] (no subject)

[<pc...@at...>]

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From: "Gerhardus Geldenhuis" <fl...@gl...>
To: "=?US-ASCII?B?UGF2ZWwgQ2lzYW8=?=" <pc...@at...>
Subject: RE: [Firebird-website] Some ideas
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Hi

I agree in principle to all the ideas you proposed.
I just feel that the site does have the potential
to become very big. We should in my opinion right
from the start use a tool to do management. I am 
not familiar realy with such tools so I dont 
know what is best. It is easier to start right
and with a learning curve than to go over to a
tool to manage the website once we realize we cant
cope any longer. Such a tool would also enable us to,
with more willingness consider new ideas that
would entail extra work, because it would not envolve
that much extra work. I have something in mind
but I think we should first agree to use something 
like that or not.

Groetnis
Gerhardus

RE: [Firebird-website] Some ideas

[Gerhardus G. <fl...@gl...>]

I am mixed up this was not suppose to go the list but to Cisar
:-))

Cheers
Gerhardus

-----Original Message-----
From: fir...@li...
[mailto:fir...@li...]On Behalf Of
Gerhardus Geldenhuis
Sent: 12 May 2001 17:04
To: fir...@li...
Subject: RE: [Firebird-website] Some ideas


Thanks
I forgot to change the email I just send now would you mind
forwarding it to the list.

Thanks
Gerhardus

RE: [Firebird-website] Some ideas

[Gerhardus G. <fl...@gl...>]

Thanks
I forgot to change the email I just send now would you mind
forwarding it to the list.

Thanks
Gerhardus

-----Original Message-----
From: fir...@li...
[mailto:fir...@li...]On Behalf Of Pavel
Cisar
Sent: 12 May 2001 11:41
To: fir...@li...
Subject: RE: [Firebird-website] Some ideas


Hi all,

On 12 May 2001, at 9:22, Gerhardus Geldenhuis wrote:

> PS Is it posible that we could make the default reply address
> of the group the group and not the last sender.

Of course. I'm sorry about that. List is now configured properly.

Regards
-- Pavel

_______________________________________________
Firebird-website mailing list
Fir...@li...
http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/firebird-website

RE: [Firebird-website] Some ideas

[Pavel C. <pc...@at...>]

Hi all,

On 12 May 2001, at 9:22, Gerhardus Geldenhuis wrote:

> PS Is it posible that we could make the default reply address
> of the group the group and not the last sender.

Of course. I'm sorry about that. List is now configured properly.

Regards
-- Pavel

Re: [Firebird-website] Some ideas

[Pavel C. <pc...@at...>]

Hi Frank,

On 11 May 2001, at 18:17, Frank Schlottmann-Goedde wrote:

> > 3) Each audience should easy find its way to their area of interest.
> > Thus idea of portal-like site with levelled down sections obviously
> > come to mind. We can also split it to more independent sites (at
> > least to two for newcomers and users&developers as was proposed
> > by Markus). I prefer the first solution, despite that a lot of work
> > would be needed to twist phpNuke.
> 
> I don't know how phpNuke works, but wouldn't it be possible to create
> a (simple) front page that leads to either this phpNuke stuff or
> to the newcomers links? (Something like the previous rabbit holes?)

Technically, it should be possible, but I'm not sure what gain we 
would get from this. We can also directly twist phpNuke (the code 
that generate the front page) that way.
 
> > 4) Site maintenance has two areas: site design&development and
> > content management. 
> 
> Anyone who ever dared to visit my homepage will know, that this
> design stuff don't have any priority for me.
> Content is a question of available time. (I usually don't have any)

That is. There are people who love to polish the site layout, and 
others who'd like edit content only. They should be able to work 
separately and don't care about other group. Of course, they 
should make an arrangement about site and information structure 
(that should be enough).

> > 5) Automation gimmicks and other features of dynamic site should
> > be also considered. I think that we could utilize at least some, like
> > polls, automatically generated statistics etc. We already have
> > some at SourceForge and it would be nice if we would be able to
> > integrate them into our site.
> 
> The structure is there, so let's use it.

Unfortunately, the database and php code that drive our 
SourceForge facilities is on another server (and database is 
PostgreSQL). Direct integration would require cooperation with SF 
staff (but it should be great improvement that many SF hosted 
projects can use).

Best regards
-- Pavel

[Firebird-website] Some ideas

[<pc...@at...>]

Hi all (currently 12 members)!

It seems that all IBDI & Firebird members who are interested in 
Firebird web site are here, so we can start the show :)

Here you are some facts and basic ideas about the Firebird web 
site:

1) Our web site should be a comprehensive source of persistent or 
semi-persistent information's about all corners and aspects of 
Firebird project. 

2) The viewing audience will vary at great scale (curious visitors, 
plain users, developers who develop with FB and FB developers). 
It's clear that each audience would need different informations (or at 
least with different level of completeness and complexity).

3) Each audience should easy find its way to their area of interest. 
Thus idea of portal-like site with levelled down sections obviously 
come to mind. We can also split it to more independent sites (at 
least to two for newcomers and users&developers as was proposed 
by Markus). I prefer the first solution, despite that a lot of work 
would be needed to twist phpNuke. Well, if we'll grow to the scale 
of KDE project, we should split it to sub-domain sites, but I think 
that (1) we're not there (2) when time will come, we would move to 
different host.

4) Site maintenance has two areas: site design&development and 
content management. I think that they can (and should) be easily 
separated to different people (or groups). I also agree with Markus 
that site maintenance should be a distributed task. I would be 
pleased, if content creation and edition would be easy, would not 
require special tools or knowledge and could be managed by 
anyone from anywhere. Of course, that would require some kind of 
content management system, but once this system would be 
created, the actual amount of work needed for site maintenance 
would be greatly decreased (not mention the lower entry barrier for 
web content providers). Hence I'd like suggest the creation of two 
working groups inside web team: CMS development&maintenance 
group and editorial group.

5) Automation gimmicks and other features of dynamic site should 
be also considered. I think that we could utilize at least some, like 
polls, automatically generated statistics etc. We already have 
some at SourceForge and it would be nice if we would be able to 
integrate them into our site.

Well, I think that it's enough for start, as I don't like burden you with 
too many ideas at once. I'd like also start with basic concepts and 
then roll down with details.

Best regards
-- Pavel

Firebird - The most addictive database
http://firebird.sourceforge.net

[Firebird-website] Comments on competing website designs

[David J. <dav...@ea...>]

Hi,
Not only did I join this list, I looked at the competing websites.

My conclusion, to my surprise, is that I like the firebird.sourceforge.net
layout and appearance better than Markus'.

Markus, I hate the light blue background.  Blue is my favorite color, this
is a nice light blue, but to me the use as a background makes the site look
very cold, distant, and uninviting.

Markus, could I suggest, that despite your protestations that you have to
work on your thesis, you would gain a great deal of credibility with
firebird if you were to spend time researching content and writing some
missing pieces to (either) website.  I agree with you that the number of
links to other sites is excessive, the essential firebird info should all
be at firebird on sourceforge.  Noone else has time or energy to make this
happen.  Would you consider putting together some of this information? I
think you would provide a useful service to the community and also gain a
good deal of background that many feel you are sometimes missing.  Perhaps
you could use this as an opportunity to flesh out your site with real
content?


Thanks

david jencks