envolution-devel — Envolution Development List

Re: [Envolution-devel] My Most Favorit eNvo Feature

[Arden W. <ar...@li...>]

Configuration at Install.  Dropdowns with every concievable option for
INSERT INTO modules (57...Infinite, 1,1,3) << Active 

Also
INSERT INTO modules_vars (All known block data that corresponds to
modules and blocks from /includes/blocks).

Release a normal install and then an addon pack containing all modules
accounted for that a user can use.  

How about another poll option?

1. Yes, Configuration at Install
2. Yes to module/block choice
3. Multi-Site distributed hosting environment.
4. addendum; Work Flow Management (eNvo1.35WFM)

Then with a few nice clusters mirrored much like they are eNvolution
could be distributed in bulk and free to millions of users.  This would
show well to major sponsors.  Development and upgrades for millions of
users would be instantaneous.  There are many more reasons to seriously
look at a distributed environment to develop and release eNvolution in. 
Just off the top eNvolution would thrive be in an optical network
eNvironment like the one in Montreal.

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 13:08, Christoph Schwaeppe wrote:
> Start a poll!
> 
> My favorite:
> 
> - Configuration at Install, choices to install/activate needed modules
> from the beginning
> 
> 
> :)
> 
> Christoph
> mailto:chr...@t-...
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
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[Envolution-devel] My Most Favorit eNvo Feature

[<Chr...@t-...>]

Start a poll!

My favorite:

- Configuration at Install, choices to install/activate needed modules
from the beginning


:)

Christoph
mailto:chr...@t-...

Re: [Envolution-devel] What I never Understand Until Today ;)

[<Chr...@t-...>]

Am Don, 2003-07-17 um 22.45 schrieb Christoph Schwaeppe:
> Make a poll, maybe ;)
> 
> Why is the eNvolution Vision an Roadmap called technical documentation?
> 
> Never I found there, what I expected to find there.
> 
> Now I'm starting to translate it to german at:
> http://www.germany.envolution.net/index.php?module=subjects&func=viewpage&pageid=9
> It's placed in the database.
> 
> -- 
> Christoph Schwaeppe
> mailto:chr...@t-...
> 
What ss the sence of chapter IV. "Technical Overview" in eNvolution
Vision / Roadmap Outline" in "Technical Documentation", while all this
is written in chapter III. "Our Goals"?

-- 
Christoph Schwaeppe
mailto:chr...@t-...

[Envolution-devel] What I never Understand Until Today ;)

[<Chr...@t-...>]

Make a poll, maybe ;)

Why is the eNvolution Vision an Roadmap called technical documentation?

Never I found there, what I expected to find there.

Now I'm starting to translate it to german at:
http://www.germany.envolution.net/index.php?module=subjects&func=viewpage&pageid=9
It's placed in the database.

-- 
Christoph Schwaeppe
mailto:chr...@t-...

[Envolution-devel] great !

[Tony S. <to...@sc...>]

Hello guys ! 

First many thanks for your work in Envolution software.
I've do many testing with a lot of cms but it's difficult
to do a choice because you can see to many young project
in this theme often not mature with many differents thinks.
My first testing was with Postnuke before release my web site
with Xoops, after i've decide to continue my testing to found
my real need. 
Since i've discover the new release of Envolution i'learn
more about it, i like some features but i'm surprise to see
the user registration no more secure, yes you can approved
registration but it's difficult to do that because anybody
can write wrong email to acces after the system, 
simple registration with link activation or others secure method
will be fine :-)
Second dream for me is to have complete approval content, but
i don't know if Envolution can do that at this time like
in forum ?
Last dream it's to have in future release complete multilingual
system also in content....

Just a few ideas to improve Envolution, long life to the Project

Thanks'Tony




-- 
     Tony Schonfeld  * F5GIT * Phone: +33 (0)6 85 17 10 93
 Email: to...@sc... - WWW: http://www.schonfeld.eu.org


             
 

Re: [Envolution-devel] [Re: Hosting questions]

[Sascha E. <me...@sa...>]

I have nothing to add to my former statements to you and I will not
engage in one of your flame wars.
Someone deleted my posting to the Envolution site in response to your
accusations. This is not the level of human interaction I want to get
involved with.

If any normal Envolution guys want to talk, I am open to suggestions /
ideas, and yes, I am even interested in benchmarking tests to compare
several CMS systems, etc.

I remember having a good time with TiMax a long time ago, so I believe
there should be plenty of normal people in this community.
Catch me off-list, if you want to talk. I will unsubscribe from this
list again after this message.

Sincerely
Sascha Endlicher
http://www.ezoshosting.com/


> On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 13:07, Sascha Endlicher wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I am Sascha Endlicher of http://www.ezoshosting.com, not ezhosting.com.
> > It's the little details that you try to use to make a point, but they
> > are just not right.
> > Two statements on two different issues.
> > 
> 
> Yeah I must have mispelled it. We are talking about your company though.
> 
> > a) We turned away a potential customer a few days ago who was asking
> > about hosting a large Envolution based website. Large as in "terms of
> > server load it would have caused". If by those descriptions the site
> > would have been a PostNuke site or a PHPNuke site the customer would
> > have gotten the same answer. Same thing for Xaraya.
> > 
> 
> Then why did you feel inclined to state this FUD,
> 
> <quote>
> "The problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or the
> bandwidth. Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many server
> resources. Unfortunately it also doesn't use any intelligent caching
> techniques. As an example: We could host approximately 50 to 100 times
> more HTML based sites than your site at the same bandwidth."
> </quote>
> 
> Sascha this quote specifically states it wasn't about large sites or
> bandwidth. The quote specifically states that "Envolution is poorly
> programmed and uses way too many resources".
> 
> You surely must realize that under Envolution's hood is a postnuke code
> base! The only primary difference being the addition of Encompass which
> does have a caching system which the quote says we don't have!
> 
> Furthermore Encompass typically uses no more resources than what Xaraya,
> Postnuke, Xoops, and any other CMS uses...sure there are minor
> differences depending on the number of modules and the forum software
> used but generally the difference if any would be negligable.
> 
> So again...if what you say is true then why tell people the stuff quoted
> above? Can't say one thing then turn around and say something else when
> it's there in black and white to be read!
> 
> > Envolution, PostNuke and PHPNuke are great tools to administer a
> > website, but they currently "have a lot of room for improvement" when it
> > comes to heavy traffic sites. Notice that the customer did not ask about
> > PostNuke hosting. I can tell you about people who are just as desperate
> > because they can't find cheap PostNuke hosting with their 30 000plus
> > visitors a day sites. We are honest enough to say that we won't host
> > them, other hosts take their money and shut them down.
> > 
> 
> So why then Sascha did you specifically say, "The problem in this case
> is certainly not the amount of visitors or the bandwidth"?
> 
> Come on do you seriously expect us to believe you don't know that server
> resources are directly proportional to the number of visitors accessing
> a website using scripting languages such as PHP?? Thats a pretty bold
> statement...you must think Envolution developers have no clue about
> server resources!!!!!!!!!!! 
> 
> > Xaraya has the potential to become a great tool, but at present it
> > isn't. I personally believe the laid out blocklayout is excellent and it
> > is great to work with, because I personally come from an XML / XSLT
> > background, but Xaraya has other bugs that make it impossible to use it
> > on production sites yet. Plus, the number of SQL calls it currently
> > generates are horrible. It is what I call a "server killer".
> > 
> 
> Yes it does..as does
> Postnuke...Xoops...PHP-Nuke.....Drupal...WebGUI.....Slashcode....and
> even good old Envolution!
> 
> > So, don't make this a "he is with Xaraya" thing.
> > 
> 
> I didn't. I was merely drawing the connection between you and the former
> postnuke develoeprs who left to form Xaraya. That bunch of people which
> includes you are constantly putting down Envolution created code....this
> issue is just another example of it.
> 
> > You might not know that, but we had actually advertised hosting for
> > Envolution on google and Overture in the past, shortly after the
> > Envolution fork, but there was not much interest by surfers and
> > potential clients.
> 
> I sure hope it doesn't turn out that the lack of interest was due to
> comments such as what you made to JFK....if I contacted a webhost and
> they told me not to use "insert cms name here" because it was "poorly
> programmed" I might be inclined to think that the less technically
> inclined would believe you knew what you were talking about. 
> 
> > People want PostNuke like crazy, although I see a lot of bad things
> > about PostNuke, one of them is the fact that it makes a bad use of
> > system resources.
> > 
> > Have you ever tried to host a site with 30 000 unique visitors an hour
> > running PostNuke in a virtual hosting environment?
> 
> Does it matter? We are not talking about real server resource issues. If
> this was all about server resource issues you wouldn't have stated, "The
> problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or the
> bandwidth" because we both know that bandwidth and simultaneous visitors
> DO have an impact on server resources...the problem lay in your next
> comment, "Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many server
> resources." Now let's keep that in context....all over your website we
> see Xoops, PHP-Nuke, Postnuke, and Xaraya...yet no mention of their
> server resource handling! Seems to me you specifically omit Envolution
> and specifically take the chance to tell prospective customers about
> your perception that Envolution is "poorly programmed" while not telling
> them that all nuke CMS's are about the same in that regard.
> 
> > We tried and failed. The next time he had that many visitors we put him
> > on a dedicated server for free. We didn't end up loosing the customer,
> > but he switched to Virtuanews, which uses really good caching.
> > 
> 
> Maybe it has something to do with the number of clients you pack into
> one machine when virtual hosting...who knows...who cares....my point and
> the only point I am attempting to address is your specific remark to a
> potential client that Envolution is "poorly programmed". The client can
> choose whatever software that fits his/her needs...we activly promote
> that
> 
> > Postnuke even gets cranky at 30 000+ visitors a day and you can't make a
> > profit with it, not with our cheap prices at least.
> 
> So shall we tell the Postnuke community that you believe that using
> Postnuke is not profitable? They would eat you alive and I would have to
> agree with them on it.
> 
> > When Kevin Mitnick was free to use the internet again and his
> > girlfriend's website, who is hosted with us, got mentioned on several TV
> > stations within a few hours, she had 30 000 visitors per hour and the
> > server load was not an issue at all. She used Movable Type. Movable Type
> > generated static HTML pages that are only updated and regenerated when
> > someone posts a comment.
> 
> So you want to compare static HTML pages with Dynamic ones? It doesn't
> take a genious to know static pages will be faster and less resource
> intensive...but then again it doesn't offer the convenience of a CMS
> application with ancillary applications which are what module are.
> 
> > This is what I call excellent in terms of server load! Plus, you can
> > burn the HTML pages on a CD. That's another killer feature for Content
> > Management IMHO.
> > 
> 
> How many clients besides his girlfriends are on the same server (as if
> this was relevant to the issue at hand)?
> 
> > b) Scott Kindley asked in an email if he could host some envolution
> > sites with us. He could have asked for static html page hosting, and he
> > would have had the same reply.
> > I don't personally like him, but I saw no need to tell him that again. I
> > just answered 
> > "Scott,
> > 
> 
> You have got to be kidding me! I also already told you I was probing for
> information to find out what you beef was with Envolution. I never
> intended to host with you or any company I host my own stuff. But since
> you are so quick to point out how much you don't like me perhaps it
> isn't so hard to figure out you don't like Envolution because of who I
> am as well! Which is what I said in the first damn place...it isn't
> about resources it's about politics.
> 
> 
> > Do I have bad feelings towards Envolution?
> > No, not at all. I am more than willing to even extend the "we sponsor
> > active postnuke developers" offer to "we sponsor active Envolution
> > developers".
> > 
> 
> Fair enough then....put up a sponsership of Envolution and retract your
> false alligations that Envolution is "poorly programmed" ands top lying
> to people by giving innaccurate misleading information about Envolution
> and I'll shutup.
> 
> > Do I have issues with Scott Kindley? Yes, I do.
> 
> Get in line pal...many people do. I don't care about who likes or
> dislikes me...I tell the truth and I believe in fair and honest open
> source development. All along our past Sascha you and folks like you
> tend to blame me for things I had no control over...I didn't lie to
> postnuke users and developers....Cox and crew did......didn't close
> development of postnuke to include only those approved of by Cox and
> crew...they did....I didn't published falsified benchmarks in an effort
> to convince people Blocklayout was superior....Cox's boys did.
> 
> Now let's talk about what Zoom did do just for the record......
> 
> Zoom raised questions about falsified benchmarks.....
> Zoom complained loudly when Cox and crew ignored the end users of
> postnuke and developers of third party blocks, modules, and themes.
> Zoom exposed emails and IRC logs given to him by insiders at the former
> postnuke showing the community how Cox and crew lied and had motives to
> create a commercial product and lock out community contributors.
> Zoom complained when Cox and crew marginalized non-english speaking
> communities by ignoring their requests for docs and language support for
> thier languages.
> Zoom cofounded Envolution to give ALL community members a voice in
> development not just a chosen few!
> Zoom activly talked with both Harry Zink and Vanessa Hackinson about
> reuniting PostNuke and Envolution into one solid community after it was
> clear the dishonest people were no longer part of PostNuke...(BTW both
> Harry and Vanessa refuse to reunite the two commnities into a single
> nuke community. Guess the end users still dont matter at postnuke
> considering development is once again closed and jeld behind moderateed
> lists again)
> 
> 
> > If Scott Kindley wants to make my personal dislike a dislike against
> > Envolution, he will fail.
> 
> Nope. I don't have to make anything....you made the case for me with
> your quote.
> 
> > Scott Kindley is not the Envolution project I believe, and my lengthy
> > examples should have cleared up this matter.
> 
> You got that right I am not Envolution. I am only a part of it. The
> community is what makes Envolution so great. And I don't beleive this
> community wants people like you to run it down with false statements and
> disparaging remarks about it either. So I'll envolution community
> members will decide for themsleves whether or not your comments about
> Envolution being "poorly programmed" is a pout down or not. I for one
> believe it is.
> 
> Zoom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
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[Envolution-devel] SPChat, NS-User, RTE_Multi

[Arden W. <ar...@li...>]

I have a working modification with the SPChat module altering with the
RTE_Multi the Signature and Bio areas of the user table.  

I believe with some hacking that
/NS-Your_Account/user/modules/changeinfo.php could be replaced by the
/SPChat/profile.php form. 

Right now I have changed the
/NS-Your_Account/user/links/links.changeinfo.php to lauch the chat
whereupon users can choose to edit their Resume and Cover Letter
(Signature and Bio) from that interface with RTE_Multi Enabled.

I changed the table structure in the envo_user table for pn_user_sig and
pn_bio both to longtext from their original to handle the extra bulk. 
Does anyone see anything wrong with the data types for those two fields
that I have altered?  

Re: [Envolution-devel] Envolution-devel -- confirmation of subscription -- request 342041

[Arden W. <ar...@li...>]

I see what I didn't do.  I got the email wrong.

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 13:01, Arden Wiebe wrote:
> I hope I subscribed to the Envolution-devel list correctly.
> 
> On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 11:56, eLGie wrote:
> > confirm 342041
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> > With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> > WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> > same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> > _______________________________________________
> > Envolution-devel mailing list
> > Env...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> _______________________________________________
> Envolution-devel mailing list
> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

Re: [Envolution-devel] [Re: Hosting questions]

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 13:07, Sascha Endlicher wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am Sascha Endlicher of http://www.ezoshosting.com, not ezhosting.com.
> It's the little details that you try to use to make a point, but they
> are just not right.
> Two statements on two different issues.
> 

Yeah I must have mispelled it. We are talking about your company though.

> a) We turned away a potential customer a few days ago who was asking
> about hosting a large Envolution based website. Large as in "terms of
> server load it would have caused". If by those descriptions the site
> would have been a PostNuke site or a PHPNuke site the customer would
> have gotten the same answer. Same thing for Xaraya.
> 

Then why did you feel inclined to state this FUD,

<quote>
"The problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or the
bandwidth. Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many server
resources. Unfortunately it also doesn't use any intelligent caching
techniques. As an example: We could host approximately 50 to 100 times
more HTML based sites than your site at the same bandwidth."
</quote>

Sascha this quote specifically states it wasn't about large sites or
bandwidth. The quote specifically states that "Envolution is poorly
programmed and uses way too many resources".

You surely must realize that under Envolution's hood is a postnuke code
base! The only primary difference being the addition of Encompass which
does have a caching system which the quote says we don't have!

Furthermore Encompass typically uses no more resources than what Xaraya,
Postnuke, Xoops, and any other CMS uses...sure there are minor
differences depending on the number of modules and the forum software
used but generally the difference if any would be negligable.

So again...if what you say is true then why tell people the stuff quoted
above? Can't say one thing then turn around and say something else when
it's there in black and white to be read!

> Envolution, PostNuke and PHPNuke are great tools to administer a
> website, but they currently "have a lot of room for improvement" when it
> comes to heavy traffic sites. Notice that the customer did not ask about
> PostNuke hosting. I can tell you about people who are just as desperate
> because they can't find cheap PostNuke hosting with their 30 000plus
> visitors a day sites. We are honest enough to say that we won't host
> them, other hosts take their money and shut them down.
> 

So why then Sascha did you specifically say, "The problem in this case
is certainly not the amount of visitors or the bandwidth"?

Come on do you seriously expect us to believe you don't know that server
resources are directly proportional to the number of visitors accessing
a website using scripting languages such as PHP?? Thats a pretty bold
statement...you must think Envolution developers have no clue about
server resources!!!!!!!!!!! 

> Xaraya has the potential to become a great tool, but at present it
> isn't. I personally believe the laid out blocklayout is excellent and it
> is great to work with, because I personally come from an XML / XSLT
> background, but Xaraya has other bugs that make it impossible to use it
> on production sites yet. Plus, the number of SQL calls it currently
> generates are horrible. It is what I call a "server killer".
> 

Yes it does..as does
Postnuke...Xoops...PHP-Nuke.....Drupal...WebGUI.....Slashcode....and
even good old Envolution!

> So, don't make this a "he is with Xaraya" thing.
> 

I didn't. I was merely drawing the connection between you and the former
postnuke develoeprs who left to form Xaraya. That bunch of people which
includes you are constantly putting down Envolution created code....this
issue is just another example of it.

> You might not know that, but we had actually advertised hosting for
> Envolution on google and Overture in the past, shortly after the
> Envolution fork, but there was not much interest by surfers and
> potential clients.

I sure hope it doesn't turn out that the lack of interest was due to
comments such as what you made to JFK....if I contacted a webhost and
they told me not to use "insert cms name here" because it was "poorly
programmed" I might be inclined to think that the less technically
inclined would believe you knew what you were talking about. 

> People want PostNuke like crazy, although I see a lot of bad things
> about PostNuke, one of them is the fact that it makes a bad use of
> system resources.
> 
> Have you ever tried to host a site with 30 000 unique visitors an hour
> running PostNuke in a virtual hosting environment?

Does it matter? We are not talking about real server resource issues. If
this was all about server resource issues you wouldn't have stated, "The
problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or the
bandwidth" because we both know that bandwidth and simultaneous visitors
DO have an impact on server resources...the problem lay in your next
comment, "Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many server
resources." Now let's keep that in context....all over your website we
see Xoops, PHP-Nuke, Postnuke, and Xaraya...yet no mention of their
server resource handling! Seems to me you specifically omit Envolution
and specifically take the chance to tell prospective customers about
your perception that Envolution is "poorly programmed" while not telling
them that all nuke CMS's are about the same in that regard.

> We tried and failed. The next time he had that many visitors we put him
> on a dedicated server for free. We didn't end up loosing the customer,
> but he switched to Virtuanews, which uses really good caching.
> 

Maybe it has something to do with the number of clients you pack into
one machine when virtual hosting...who knows...who cares....my point and
the only point I am attempting to address is your specific remark to a
potential client that Envolution is "poorly programmed". The client can
choose whatever software that fits his/her needs...we activly promote
that

> Postnuke even gets cranky at 30 000+ visitors a day and you can't make a
> profit with it, not with our cheap prices at least.

So shall we tell the Postnuke community that you believe that using
Postnuke is not profitable? They would eat you alive and I would have to
agree with them on it.

> When Kevin Mitnick was free to use the internet again and his
> girlfriend's website, who is hosted with us, got mentioned on several TV
> stations within a few hours, she had 30 000 visitors per hour and the
> server load was not an issue at all. She used Movable Type. Movable Type
> generated static HTML pages that are only updated and regenerated when
> someone posts a comment.

So you want to compare static HTML pages with Dynamic ones? It doesn't
take a genious to know static pages will be faster and less resource
intensive...but then again it doesn't offer the convenience of a CMS
application with ancillary applications which are what module are.

> This is what I call excellent in terms of server load! Plus, you can
> burn the HTML pages on a CD. That's another killer feature for Content
> Management IMHO.
> 

How many clients besides his girlfriends are on the same server (as if
this was relevant to the issue at hand)?

> b) Scott Kindley asked in an email if he could host some envolution
> sites with us. He could have asked for static html page hosting, and he
> would have had the same reply.
> I don't personally like him, but I saw no need to tell him that again. I
> just answered 
> "Scott,
> 

You have got to be kidding me! I also already told you I was probing for
information to find out what you beef was with Envolution. I never
intended to host with you or any company I host my own stuff. But since
you are so quick to point out how much you don't like me perhaps it
isn't so hard to figure out you don't like Envolution because of who I
am as well! Which is what I said in the first damn place...it isn't
about resources it's about politics.


> Do I have bad feelings towards Envolution?
> No, not at all. I am more than willing to even extend the "we sponsor
> active postnuke developers" offer to "we sponsor active Envolution
> developers".
> 

Fair enough then....put up a sponsership of Envolution and retract your
false alligations that Envolution is "poorly programmed" ands top lying
to people by giving innaccurate misleading information about Envolution
and I'll shutup.

> Do I have issues with Scott Kindley? Yes, I do.

Get in line pal...many people do. I don't care about who likes or
dislikes me...I tell the truth and I believe in fair and honest open
source development. All along our past Sascha you and folks like you
tend to blame me for things I had no control over...I didn't lie to
postnuke users and developers....Cox and crew did......didn't close
development of postnuke to include only those approved of by Cox and
crew...they did....I didn't published falsified benchmarks in an effort
to convince people Blocklayout was superior....Cox's boys did.

Now let's talk about what Zoom did do just for the record......

Zoom raised questions about falsified benchmarks.....
Zoom complained loudly when Cox and crew ignored the end users of
postnuke and developers of third party blocks, modules, and themes.
Zoom exposed emails and IRC logs given to him by insiders at the former
postnuke showing the community how Cox and crew lied and had motives to
create a commercial product and lock out community contributors.
Zoom complained when Cox and crew marginalized non-english speaking
communities by ignoring their requests for docs and language support for
thier languages.
Zoom cofounded Envolution to give ALL community members a voice in
development not just a chosen few!
Zoom activly talked with both Harry Zink and Vanessa Hackinson about
reuniting PostNuke and Envolution into one solid community after it was
clear the dishonest people were no longer part of PostNuke...(BTW both
Harry and Vanessa refuse to reunite the two commnities into a single
nuke community. Guess the end users still dont matter at postnuke
considering development is once again closed and jeld behind moderateed
lists again)


> If Scott Kindley wants to make my personal dislike a dislike against
> Envolution, he will fail.

Nope. I don't have to make anything....you made the case for me with
your quote.

> Scott Kindley is not the Envolution project I believe, and my lengthy
> examples should have cleared up this matter.

You got that right I am not Envolution. I am only a part of it. The
community is what makes Envolution so great. And I don't beleive this
community wants people like you to run it down with false statements and
disparaging remarks about it either. So I'll envolution community
members will decide for themsleves whether or not your comments about
Envolution being "poorly programmed" is a pout down or not. I for one
believe it is.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] Envolution-devel -- confirmation of subscription -- request 342041

[Arden W. <ar...@li...>]

I hope I subscribed to the Envolution-devel list correctly.

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 11:56, eLGie wrote:
> confirm 342041
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
> _______________________________________________
> Envolution-devel mailing list
> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel

[Envolution-devel] [Re: Hosting questions]

[Sascha E. <me...@sa...>]

Hi,

I am Sascha Endlicher of http://www.ezoshosting.com, not ezhosting.com.
It's the little details that you try to use to make a point, but they
are just not right.
Two statements on two different issues.

a) We turned away a potential customer a few days ago who was asking
about hosting a large Envolution based website. Large as in "terms of
server load it would have caused". If by those descriptions the site
would have been a PostNuke site or a PHPNuke site the customer would
have gotten the same answer. Same thing for Xaraya.

Envolution, PostNuke and PHPNuke are great tools to administer a
website, but they currently "have a lot of room for improvement" when it
comes to heavy traffic sites. Notice that the customer did not ask about
PostNuke hosting. I can tell you about people who are just as desperate
because they can't find cheap PostNuke hosting with their 30 000plus
visitors a day sites. We are honest enough to say that we won't host
them, other hosts take their money and shut them down.

Xaraya has the potential to become a great tool, but at present it
isn't. I personally believe the laid out blocklayout is excellent and it
is great to work with, because I personally come from an XML / XSLT
background, but Xaraya has other bugs that make it impossible to use it
on production sites yet. Plus, the number of SQL calls it currently
generates are horrible. It is what I call a "server killer".

So, don't make this a "he is with Xaraya" thing.

You might not know that, but we had actually advertised hosting for
Envolution on google and Overture in the past, shortly after the
Envolution fork, but there was not much interest by surfers and
potential clients.
People want PostNuke like crazy, although I see a lot of bad things
about PostNuke, one of them is the fact that it makes a bad use of
system resources.

Have you ever tried to host a site with 30 000 unique visitors an hour
running PostNuke in a virtual hosting environment?
We tried and failed. The next time he had that many visitors we put him
on a dedicated server for free. We didn't end up loosing the customer,
but he switched to Virtuanews, which uses really good caching.

Postnuke even gets cranky at 30 000+ visitors a day and you can't make a
profit with it, not with our cheap prices at least.
When Kevin Mitnick was free to use the internet again and his
girlfriend's website, who is hosted with us, got mentioned on several TV
stations within a few hours, she had 30 000 visitors per hour and the
server load was not an issue at all. She used Movable Type. Movable Type
generated static HTML pages that are only updated and regenerated when
someone posts a comment.
This is what I call excellent in terms of server load! Plus, you can
burn the HTML pages on a CD. That's another killer feature for Content
Management IMHO.

b) Scott Kindley asked in an email if he could host some envolution
sites with us. He could have asked for static html page hosting, and he
would have had the same reply.
I don't personally like him, but I saw no need to tell him that again. I
just answered 
"Scott,

I am sorry, but we will not host your sites.

Sincerely
Sascha Endlicher
http://www.ezoshosting.com/
"

Do I have bad feelings towards Envolution?
No, not at all. I am more than willing to even extend the "we sponsor
active postnuke developers" offer to "we sponsor active Envolution
developers".

Do I have issues with Scott Kindley? Yes, I do.
If Scott Kindley wants to make my personal dislike a dislike against
Envolution, he will fail.
Scott Kindley is not the Envolution project I believe, and my lengthy
examples should have cleared up this matter.

Sincerely
Sascha Endlicher
http://www.ezoshosting.com/

> Envolution developers and community members,
> 
> This email is directed to the envolution-dev list and is CC'd to
Sascha
> Endlicher. 
> 
> Below is a message forwarded to not only this list but Sascha
Endlicher
> of www.ezhoshosting.com. Sascha is a former postnuke developer who was
> closly aligned with John Cox and Gregor Rothfuss back when Envolution
> forked from PostNuke. It would be a fair assumption that Sascha and
the
> other John Cox supporters have bad feelings toward Envolution and me
in
> particular. This is why Sascha refused to host Envolution websites at
> his company..NOT because of poor code or factually based technical
> issues. Read on for explaination please.
> 
> One of our community members was told by this company that they will
not
> host Envolution websites like they will for Postnuke, Xoops, Xaraya,
or
> PHP-Nuke. Instead they claim an Envolution website would have to done
on
> a dedicated server. I wonder if they say this as a way to dishonestly
> encourage people to abandon Envolution or worse, to trick people into
> paying for something they don't need. As you can see from the quote I
> included below from one of our community members (JFK)
exzoshosting.com
> is telling people that Envolution is poorly programmed software.
> 
> I encourage all Envolution users to make informed decisions on their
> choice for a CMS. They should use a tool that meets or exceeds their
> needs. True also is the same process for choosing a web host providor.
> Obviously Sascha Endlicher and his company ezoshosting.com do not want
> business from Envolution users. 
> 
> Sascha and his company can certainly choose to do business with
whoever
> they want..I have no problem with that. What I do have a huge problem
> with is the misrepresentation of facts to people who are using
> Envolution by Sascha and his company. This type of collusion is
> troublesome to me and I feel should be troublesome to other CMS
projects
> like Xoops, PHP-Nuke, etc.
> 
> I am looking for information and advice on how we as a community can
> leverage our collective voices and show companies like this that we do
> not wish to be discriminated against because of our choice to use the
> Envolution CMS. Should we simply ignore them? Should we publicly voice
> our opinions about this? Should we simply boycott them? Perhaps you
have
> some other clever ideas on how to demonstrate our displeasure with
this
> company's FUD.
> 
> Zoom
> 
> On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 00:20, Sascha Endlicher wrote:
> > Scott,
> > 
> > I am sorry, but we will not host your sites.
> > 
> > Sincerely
> > Sascha Endlicher
> > http://www.ezoshosting.com/
> > 
> > > I am inquiring about hosting a website with your company. I use
CMS software called Envolution which is similar to Postnuke. Can I get
it preinstalled or would I have to install it myself?
> 
> Thanks for the reply Sascha.
> 
> I must admit I am really not looking for a host. I was really probing
to
> find out what your beef with Envolution is since one of our community
> members posted this quote to our forums at envolution.com:
> 
> <quote>
> "while I would certainly like to help you, I am afraid we can't help
you
> with your site. It has outgrown the needs of a virtual webhosting site
> and would need to be placed on a dedicated server. 
> The problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or
the 
> bandwidth. Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many
server
> resources. Unfortunately it also doesn't use any intelligent caching
> techniques. As an example: We could host approximately 50 to 100 times
> more HTML based sites than your site at the same bandwidth."
> </quote>
> 
> That same member has forwarded email to me concerning this matter as
> well.
> 
> Since I had not ever heard of ezoshosting.com I thought it prudent to
> see what you would say to someone who inquired about hosting an
> Envolution website since ezoshosting.com publicly advertises postnuke,
> xoops and others.
> 
> Now that I know it is you behind the FUD spreading I can inform our
> community that the real reason you won't host envolution websites is
> because of politics instead of technical reasons.
> 
> I'm sure that once the truth is known why ezoshosting.com refuses to
do
> business with Envolution users and adopters, our community members who
> need hosting services can make informed decisions about who they wish
to
> do business with...and who will refuse to do business with them!
> 
> In closing I wish to inform you that your remarks about Envolution
being
> "poorly programmed" is pure bullshit. In fact it is based on Postnuke
> code which you yourself contributed to! Benchmarks that were faked by
> your peers back in the days preceeding Envolution clearly show that
> Encompass (the poor code you obviously refer to) performed superior to
> postnuke. It also does contain caching code..had you looked at the
code
> you would've known that. Lying to public inqueries for your services
by
> telling people that Envolution is "poorly programmed" is a real cheap,
> factually baseless shot...I would expect that from Gregor or Cox, but
> not from a busieness. It shouldn't matter to you what software a
> customer uses. It just reinforces how right we were to fork from
> Postnuke.
> 
> The next version of Postnuke will contain a significant portion of
code
> that originated with Envolution developers and was central to the big
> political debate which caused you and the other Cox followers to leave
> postnuke development. Once Postnuke .8 releases with Encompass
> originated code (the Xanthia theme system is a fork of Encompass) are
> you going to stop hosting Postnuke sites as well? I imagine it chaps
> your ass to know that Envolution developers have had such an influence
> on nuke type CMS's like Postnuke.
> 
> Thanks again for replying to me directly Sascha..it makes the task of
> rebutting your inaccurate claims that Envolution is "poorly
programmed"
> to the Envolution communty so much easier. I'll also let the XOOP's,
> PHP-Nuke, and current PostNuke communities know that it is possible to
> get "locked" out of services they may be interested in by your company
> simply because of the CMS they choose to use. Who knows maybe one day
> you'll start telling prospective clients to stop using Xoop's because
> you don't like Xoop's programmers or something.
> 
> Scott Kindley
> Zoom
> 
> 

[Envolution-devel] Envolution-devel -- confirmation of subscription -- request 342041

[eLGie <eL...@li...>]

confirm 342041

[Envolution-devel] Re: Hosting questions

[Sascha E. <sa...@ez...>]

Hi,

I am Sascha Endlicher of http://www.ezoshosting.com, not ezhosting.com.
It's the little details that you try to use to make a point, but they
are just not right.
Two statements on two different issues.

a) We turned away a potential customer a few days ago who was asking
about hosting a large Envolution based website. Large as in "terms of
server load it would have caused". If by those descriptions the site
would have been a PostNuke site or a PHPNuke site the customer would
have gotten the same answer. Same thing for Xaraya.

Envolution, PostNuke and PHPNuke are great tools to administer a
website, but they currently "have a lot of room for improvement" when it
comes to heavy traffic sites. Notice that the customer did not ask about
PostNuke hosting. I can tell you about people who are just as desperate
because they can't find cheap PostNuke hosting with their 30 000plus
visitors a day sites. We are honest enough to say that we won't host
them, other hosts take their money and shut them down.

Xaraya has the potential to become a great tool, but at present it
isn't. I personally believe the laid out blocklayout is excellent and it
is great to work with, because I personally come from an XML / XSLT
background, but Xaraya has other bugs that make it impossible to use it
on production sites yet. Plus, the number of SQL calls it currently
generates are horrible. It is what I call a "server killer".

So, don't make this a "he is with Xaraya" thing.

You might not know that, but we had actually advertised hosting for
Envolution on google and Overture in the past, shortly after the
Envolution fork, but there was not much interest by surfers and
potential clients.
People want PostNuke like crazy, although I see a lot of bad things
about PostNuke, one of them is the fact that it makes a bad use of
system resources.

Have you ever tried to host a site with 30 000 unique visitors an hour
running PostNuke in a virtual hosting environment?
We tried and failed. The next time he had that many visitors we put him
on a dedicated server for free. We didn't end up loosing the customer,
but he switched to Virtuanews, which uses really good caching.

Postnuke even gets cranky at 30 000+ visitors a day and you can't make a
profit with it, not with our cheap prices at least.
When Kevin Mitnick was free to use the internet again and his
girlfriend's website, who is hosted with us, got mentioned on several TV
stations within a few hours, she had 30 000 visitors per hour and the
server load was not an issue at all. She used Movable Type. Movable Type
generated static HTML pages that are only updated and regenerated when
someone posts a comment.
This is what I call excellent in terms of server load! Plus, you can
burn the HTML pages on a CD. That's another killer feature for Content
Management IMHO.

b) Scott Kindley asked in an email if he could host some envolution
sites with us. He could have asked for static html page hosting, and he
would have had the same reply.
I don't personally like him, but I saw no need to tell him that again. I
just answered 
"Scott,

I am sorry, but we will not host your sites.

Sincerely
Sascha Endlicher
http://www.ezoshosting.com/
"

Do I have bad feelings towards Envolution?
No, not at all. I am more than willing to even extend the "we sponsor
active postnuke developers" offer to "we sponsor active Envolution
developers".

Do I have issues with Scott Kindley? Yes, I do.
If Scott Kindley wants to make my personal dislike a dislike against
Envolution, he will fail.
Scott Kindley is not the Envolution project I believe, and my lengthy
examples should have cleared up this matter.

Sincerely
Sascha Endlicher
http://www.ezoshosting.com/

> Envolution developers and community members,
> 
> This email is directed to the envolution-dev list and is CC'd to Sascha
> Endlicher. 
> 
> Below is a message forwarded to not only this list but Sascha Endlicher
> of www.ezhoshosting.com. Sascha is a former postnuke developer who was
> closly aligned with John Cox and Gregor Rothfuss back when Envolution
> forked from PostNuke. It would be a fair assumption that Sascha and the
> other John Cox supporters have bad feelings toward Envolution and me in
> particular. This is why Sascha refused to host Envolution websites at
> his company..NOT because of poor code or factually based technical
> issues. Read on for explaination please.
> 
> One of our community members was told by this company that they will not
> host Envolution websites like they will for Postnuke, Xoops, Xaraya, or
> PHP-Nuke. Instead they claim an Envolution website would have to done on
> a dedicated server. I wonder if they say this as a way to dishonestly
> encourage people to abandon Envolution or worse, to trick people into
> paying for something they don't need. As you can see from the quote I
> included below from one of our community members (JFK) exzoshosting.com
> is telling people that Envolution is poorly programmed software.
> 
> I encourage all Envolution users to make informed decisions on their
> choice for a CMS. They should use a tool that meets or exceeds their
> needs. True also is the same process for choosing a web host providor.
> Obviously Sascha Endlicher and his company ezoshosting.com do not want
> business from Envolution users. 
> 
> Sascha and his company can certainly choose to do business with whoever
> they want..I have no problem with that. What I do have a huge problem
> with is the misrepresentation of facts to people who are using
> Envolution by Sascha and his company. This type of collusion is
> troublesome to me and I feel should be troublesome to other CMS projects
> like Xoops, PHP-Nuke, etc.
> 
> I am looking for information and advice on how we as a community can
> leverage our collective voices and show companies like this that we do
> not wish to be discriminated against because of our choice to use the
> Envolution CMS. Should we simply ignore them? Should we publicly voice
> our opinions about this? Should we simply boycott them? Perhaps you have
> some other clever ideas on how to demonstrate our displeasure with this
> company's FUD.
> 
> Zoom
> 
> On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 00:20, Sascha Endlicher wrote:
> > Scott,
> > 
> > I am sorry, but we will not host your sites.
> > 
> > Sincerely
> > Sascha Endlicher
> > http://www.ezoshosting.com/
> > 
> > > I am inquiring about hosting a website with your company. I use CMS software called Envolution which is similar to Postnuke. Can I get it preinstalled or would I have to install it myself?
> 
> Thanks for the reply Sascha.
> 
> I must admit I am really not looking for a host. I was really probing to
> find out what your beef with Envolution is since one of our community
> members posted this quote to our forums at envolution.com:
> 
> <quote>
> "while I would certainly like to help you, I am afraid we can't help you
> with your site. It has outgrown the needs of a virtual webhosting site
> and would need to be placed on a dedicated server. 
> The problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or the 
> bandwidth. Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many server
> resources. Unfortunately it also doesn't use any intelligent caching
> techniques. As an example: We could host approximately 50 to 100 times
> more HTML based sites than your site at the same bandwidth."
> </quote>
> 
> That same member has forwarded email to me concerning this matter as
> well.
> 
> Since I had not ever heard of ezoshosting.com I thought it prudent to
> see what you would say to someone who inquired about hosting an
> Envolution website since ezoshosting.com publicly advertises postnuke,
> xoops and others.
> 
> Now that I know it is you behind the FUD spreading I can inform our
> community that the real reason you won't host envolution websites is
> because of politics instead of technical reasons.
> 
> I'm sure that once the truth is known why ezoshosting.com refuses to do
> business with Envolution users and adopters, our community members who
> need hosting services can make informed decisions about who they wish to
> do business with...and who will refuse to do business with them!
> 
> In closing I wish to inform you that your remarks about Envolution being
> "poorly programmed" is pure bullshit. In fact it is based on Postnuke
> code which you yourself contributed to! Benchmarks that were faked by
> your peers back in the days preceeding Envolution clearly show that
> Encompass (the poor code you obviously refer to) performed superior to
> postnuke. It also does contain caching code..had you looked at the code
> you would've known that. Lying to public inqueries for your services by
> telling people that Envolution is "poorly programmed" is a real cheap,
> factually baseless shot...I would expect that from Gregor or Cox, but
> not from a busieness. It shouldn't matter to you what software a
> customer uses. It just reinforces how right we were to fork from
> Postnuke.
> 
> The next version of Postnuke will contain a significant portion of code
> that originated with Envolution developers and was central to the big
> political debate which caused you and the other Cox followers to leave
> postnuke development. Once Postnuke .8 releases with Encompass
> originated code (the Xanthia theme system is a fork of Encompass) are
> you going to stop hosting Postnuke sites as well? I imagine it chaps
> your ass to know that Envolution developers have had such an influence
> on nuke type CMS's like Postnuke.
> 
> Thanks again for replying to me directly Sascha..it makes the task of
> rebutting your inaccurate claims that Envolution is "poorly programmed"
> to the Envolution communty so much easier. I'll also let the XOOP's,
> PHP-Nuke, and current PostNuke communities know that it is possible to
> get "locked" out of services they may be interested in by your company
> simply because of the CMS they choose to use. Who knows maybe one day
> you'll start telling prospective clients to stop using Xoop's because
> you don't like Xoop's programmers or something.
> 
> Scott Kindley
> Zoom
> 
> 

Re: [Envolution-devel] Re: Hosting questions

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 11:57, TiMax - Envolution wrote:
> Ezhosting is a commercial company ..... so if we start a flames we make lot of promotion for they .... 
> 

Not intended to be a flame!

It is intended to stop companies, commercial or otherwise, from
spreading false information about Envolution.

If we don't object then we may as well give in and use only software
that is "approved" by companies like this. Because by doing nothing we
run the risk of loosing members. They will start to believe the false
information eventually. The idea is to grow as a project not loose
people because of lies by companies susch as this!

So my question to the community as a whole is this:

"Shall we volunteer to do nothing again?"

Zoom

[Envolution-devel] For Your Interest: New User Admin Message from eNvo.de (eng. translation)

[<Chr...@t-...>]

Hi envolvers :-)

here a wellformed ;) german version for "Welcome new and expirienced CMS
Users!" admin message. 

http://www.germany.envolution.net/

Below is a google translations (uups, with some poor corrections). We
want to post this to to magazines and several websites. 

Comments and use is welcomed!

Christoph/gatonero
Stefan/WindMeUp
----------------------------------------------
Welcome experienced and new CMS users!  

eNvolution probably is one of the most efficient content management
systems (CMS) at present., which does not need to shrink from the
comparison with high-quality, commercial systems, as open SOURCE system
eNvolution stands as one of the younger representatives in the long
tradition of phpNuke and Postnuke .In functionality, stability and
efficiency was eNvolution from the very beginning at least equal to 
these systems.  However at, the latest since version 1.2, eNvolution 
stands at the upper end of the achievement scale of these systems.  

The source code, this in PHP written systems, was revised by reason on
complete. It offers qualities since then, which are transferred in the
meantime gladly in the sporty match by other representatives of this
system kind.  [;D]

Here some conspicuous (herausragensten) capability characteristics of
eNvolution:  

* With the extremely efficient eNcompass Theme engine the Website is
arranged graphic.  A Web-based surface is to the administrator or a
coworker at the disposal, with which it can furnish all aspects of the
layout. This system supplemental by standard HTML collecting and
personal templates, wich can be provided by any HTML editor. In the
zones, blocks and modules of this system everything is possible, which
is to be realized only somehow with the current Web techniques.  
There are now borders for Your own conception and realization
possibilities .  

* With the NoMoreBlock system zones, blocks and modules, completely the
own conceptions accordingly, can by mouse-click to be positioned.  

* The FLS system makes an extremely fast side structure possible with a
thought out authorization system can arbitrary organizational,
contentwise and functional aspects be steered.  

* The use of the SQL interface ADOdb, permits data base tying up also in
the business surrounding field.  The spectrum that support data bases
spreads from MySQL up to Oracle.  

* Many further advantages you will be able to determine with the
attendance of these Website themselves.  

A very active, international developer community offers also locally a
very efficient support to you.  If you should be interested to actively
support the development of eNvolution then you are at any time cordially
invited to it!  

..... eNvolution, the best way, most from their layouts to take out
modules and blocks!  

eNvolution Staff

-- 
Christoph Schwaeppe
mailto:chr...@t-...

[Envolution-devel] Re: Hosting questions

[TiMax - E. <web...@en...>]

Ezhosting is a commercial company ..... so if we start a flames we make lot=
 of promotion for they .... 

On 17 Jul 2003 11:44:58 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote:
>  Envolution developers and community members,
>
>  This email is directed to the envolution-dev list and is CC'd to Sascha
>  Endlicher.
>
>  Below is a message forwarded to not only this list but Sascha Endlicher
>  of www.ezhoshosting.com. Sascha is a former postnuke developer who was
>  closly aligned with John Cox and Gregor Rothfuss back when Envolution
>  forked from PostNuke. It would be a fair assumption that Sascha and the
>  other John Cox supporters have bad feelings toward Envolution and me in
>  particular. This is why Sascha refused to host Envolution websites at
>  his company..NOT because of poor code or factually based technical
>  issues. Read on for explaination please.
>
>  One of our community members was told by this company that they will not
>  host Envolution websites like they will for Postnuke, Xoops, Xaraya, or
>  PHP-Nuke. Instead they claim an Envolution website would have to done on
>  a dedicated server. I wonder if they say this as a way to dishonestly
>  encourage people to abandon Envolution or worse, to trick people into
>  paying for something they don't need. As you can see from the quote I
>  included below from one of our community members (JFK) exzoshosting.com
>  is telling people that Envolution is poorly programmed software.
>
>  I encourage all Envolution users to make informed decisions on their
>  choice for a CMS. They should use a tool that meets or exceeds their
>  needs. True also is the same process for choosing a web host providor.
>  Obviously Sascha Endlicher and his company ezoshosting.com do not want
>  business from Envolution users.
>
>  Sascha and his company can certainly choose to do business with whoever
>  they want..I have no problem with that. What I do have a huge problem
>  with is the misrepresentation of facts to people who are using
>  Envolution by Sascha and his company. This type of collusion is
>  troublesome to me and I feel should be troublesome to other CMS projects
>  like Xoops, PHP-Nuke, etc.
>
>  I am looking for information and advice on how we as a community can
>  leverage our collective voices and show companies like this that we do
>  not wish to be discriminated against because of our choice to use the
>  Envolution CMS. Should we simply ignore them? Should we publicly voice
>  our opinions about this? Should we simply boycott them? Perhaps you have
>  some other clever ideas on how to demonstrate our displeasure with this
>  company's FUD.
>
>  Zoom
>
>  On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 00:20, Sascha Endlicher wrote:
>  > Scott,
>  >
>  > I am sorry, but we will not host your sites.
>  >
>  > Sincerely
>  > Sascha Endlicher
>  > http://www.ezoshosting.com/
>  >
>  > > I am inquiring about hosting a website with your company. I use CMS=
 software called Envolution which is similar 
to Postnuke. Can I get it preinstalled or would I have to install it=
 myself?
>
>  Thanks for the reply Sascha.
>
>  I must admit I am really not looking for a host. I was really probing to
>  find out what your beef with Envolution is since one of our community
>  members posted this quote to our forums at envolution.com:
>
>  <quote>
>  "while I would certainly like to help you, I am afraid we can't help you
>  with your site. It has outgrown the needs of a virtual webhosting site
>  and would need to be placed on a dedicated server.
>  The problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or the
>  bandwidth. Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many server
>  resources. Unfortunately it also doesn't use any intelligent caching
>  techniques. As an example: We could host approximately 50 to 100 times
>  more HTML based sites than your site at the same bandwidth."
>  </quote>
>
>  That same member has forwarded email to me concerning this matter as
>  well.
>
>  Since I had not ever heard of ezoshosting.com I thought it prudent to
>  see what you would say to someone who inquired about hosting an
>  Envolution website since ezoshosting.com publicly advertises postnuke,
>  xoops and others.
>
>  Now that I know it is you behind the FUD spreading I can inform our
>  community that the real reason you won't host envolution websites is
>  because of politics instead of technical reasons.
>
>  I'm sure that once the truth is known why ezoshosting.com refuses to do
>  business with Envolution users and adopters, our community members who
>  need hosting services can make informed decisions about who they wish to
>  do business with...and who will refuse to do business with them!
>
>  In closing I wish to inform you that your remarks about Envolution being
>  "poorly programmed" is pure bullshit. In fact it is based on Postnuke
>  code which you yourself contributed to! Benchmarks that were faked by
>  your peers back in the days preceeding Envolution clearly show that
>  Encompass (the poor code you obviously refer to) performed superior to
>  postnuke. It also does contain caching code..had you looked at the code
>  you would've known that. Lying to public inqueries for your services by
>  telling people that Envolution is "poorly programmed" is a real cheap,
>  factually baseless shot...I would expect that from Gregor or Cox, but
>  not from a busieness. It shouldn't matter to you what software a
>  customer uses. It just reinforces how right we were to fork from
>  Postnuke.
>
>  The next version of Postnuke will contain a significant portion of code
>  that originated with Envolution developers and was central to the big
>  political debate which caused you and the other Cox followers to leave
>  postnuke development. Once Postnuke .8 releases with Encompass
>  originated code (the Xanthia theme system is a fork of Encompass) are
>  you going to stop hosting Postnuke sites as well? I imagine it chaps
>  your ass to know that Envolution developers have had such an influence
>  on nuke type CMS's like Postnuke.
>
>  Thanks again for replying to me directly Sascha..it makes the task of
>  rebutting your inaccurate claims that Envolution is "poorly programmed"
>  to the Envolution communty so much easier. I'll also let the XOOP's,
>  PHP-Nuke, and current PostNuke communities know that it is possible to
>  get "locked" out of services they may be interested in by your company
>  simply because of the CMS they choose to use. Who knows maybe one day
>  you'll start telling prospective clients to stop using Xoop's because
>  you don't like Xoop's programmers or something.
>
>  Scott Kindley
>  Zoom
>
>
>  __________ NOD32 1.462 (20030716) Information __________
>
>  This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System.
>  http://www.nod32.com

[Envolution-devel] Re: Hosting questions

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

Envolution developers and community members,

This email is directed to the envolution-dev list and is CC'd to Sascha
Endlicher. 

Below is a message forwarded to not only this list but Sascha Endlicher
of www.ezhoshosting.com. Sascha is a former postnuke developer who was
closly aligned with John Cox and Gregor Rothfuss back when Envolution
forked from PostNuke. It would be a fair assumption that Sascha and the
other John Cox supporters have bad feelings toward Envolution and me in
particular. This is why Sascha refused to host Envolution websites at
his company..NOT because of poor code or factually based technical
issues. Read on for explaination please.

One of our community members was told by this company that they will not
host Envolution websites like they will for Postnuke, Xoops, Xaraya, or
PHP-Nuke. Instead they claim an Envolution website would have to done on
a dedicated server. I wonder if they say this as a way to dishonestly
encourage people to abandon Envolution or worse, to trick people into
paying for something they don't need. As you can see from the quote I
included below from one of our community members (JFK) exzoshosting.com
is telling people that Envolution is poorly programmed software.

I encourage all Envolution users to make informed decisions on their
choice for a CMS. They should use a tool that meets or exceeds their
needs. True also is the same process for choosing a web host providor.
Obviously Sascha Endlicher and his company ezoshosting.com do not want
business from Envolution users. 

Sascha and his company can certainly choose to do business with whoever
they want..I have no problem with that. What I do have a huge problem
with is the misrepresentation of facts to people who are using
Envolution by Sascha and his company. This type of collusion is
troublesome to me and I feel should be troublesome to other CMS projects
like Xoops, PHP-Nuke, etc.

I am looking for information and advice on how we as a community can
leverage our collective voices and show companies like this that we do
not wish to be discriminated against because of our choice to use the
Envolution CMS. Should we simply ignore them? Should we publicly voice
our opinions about this? Should we simply boycott them? Perhaps you have
some other clever ideas on how to demonstrate our displeasure with this
company's FUD.

Zoom

On Thu, 2003-07-17 at 00:20, Sascha Endlicher wrote:
> Scott,
> 
> I am sorry, but we will not host your sites.
> 
> Sincerely
> Sascha Endlicher
> http://www.ezoshosting.com/
> 
> > I am inquiring about hosting a website with your company. I use CMS software called Envolution which is similar to Postnuke. Can I get it preinstalled or would I have to install it myself?

Thanks for the reply Sascha.

I must admit I am really not looking for a host. I was really probing to
find out what your beef with Envolution is since one of our community
members posted this quote to our forums at envolution.com:

<quote>
"while I would certainly like to help you, I am afraid we can't help you
with your site. It has outgrown the needs of a virtual webhosting site
and would need to be placed on a dedicated server. 
The problem in this case is certainly not the amount of visitors or the 
bandwidth. Envolution is poorly programmed and uses way too many server
resources. Unfortunately it also doesn't use any intelligent caching
techniques. As an example: We could host approximately 50 to 100 times
more HTML based sites than your site at the same bandwidth."
</quote>

That same member has forwarded email to me concerning this matter as
well.

Since I had not ever heard of ezoshosting.com I thought it prudent to
see what you would say to someone who inquired about hosting an
Envolution website since ezoshosting.com publicly advertises postnuke,
xoops and others.

Now that I know it is you behind the FUD spreading I can inform our
community that the real reason you won't host envolution websites is
because of politics instead of technical reasons.

I'm sure that once the truth is known why ezoshosting.com refuses to do
business with Envolution users and adopters, our community members who
need hosting services can make informed decisions about who they wish to
do business with...and who will refuse to do business with them!

In closing I wish to inform you that your remarks about Envolution being
"poorly programmed" is pure bullshit. In fact it is based on Postnuke
code which you yourself contributed to! Benchmarks that were faked by
your peers back in the days preceeding Envolution clearly show that
Encompass (the poor code you obviously refer to) performed superior to
postnuke. It also does contain caching code..had you looked at the code
you would've known that. Lying to public inqueries for your services by
telling people that Envolution is "poorly programmed" is a real cheap,
factually baseless shot...I would expect that from Gregor or Cox, but
not from a busieness. It shouldn't matter to you what software a
customer uses. It just reinforces how right we were to fork from
Postnuke.

The next version of Postnuke will contain a significant portion of code
that originated with Envolution developers and was central to the big
political debate which caused you and the other Cox followers to leave
postnuke development. Once Postnuke .8 releases with Encompass
originated code (the Xanthia theme system is a fork of Encompass) are
you going to stop hosting Postnuke sites as well? I imagine it chaps
your ass to know that Envolution developers have had such an influence
on nuke type CMS's like Postnuke.

Thanks again for replying to me directly Sascha..it makes the task of
rebutting your inaccurate claims that Envolution is "poorly programmed"
to the Envolution communty so much easier. I'll also let the XOOP's,
PHP-Nuke, and current PostNuke communities know that it is possible to
get "locked" out of services they may be interested in by your company
simply because of the CMS they choose to use. Who knows maybe one day
you'll start telling prospective clients to stop using Xoop's because
you don't like Xoop's programmers or something.

Scott Kindley
Zoom

Re: R: [Envolution-devel] CSS in Borobudur3D

[Sjahrazad A. <sja...@ba...>]

Thats great!

If not too late at home I'll finish the Borobudur3d and send you the zip=20
files, so you can make a test. Please consider this is only on concept id=
ea=20
stage. I'm not php expert, and did a dirty hack in encompass files, so an=
y=20
suggestions to make it better are welcome.

I'll let you know.

sjah

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 09:23:22 +0200, Avv. Umberto Maria Malandrucco wrote
> I'm working to let envolution xhtml1.0transitional/CSS compliance=20
> with w3c standards and validators I prepared a draft from=20
> Michelangelo theme and it's almost ready I absolutely agree (and=20
> TiMax is with me) to abandon the NS4 support Some of my changes and=20
> suggestions were used for the 125FLS release I'd like to have a look=20
> to the new Borobudur3d theme... ad I'm also working for a guideline=20
> draft for the use of css in envolution we can work together on this=20
> Let me know... you can email me privately.
>=20
> Umberto Maria Malandrucco
> ______________________________
> Avv. Umberto Maria Malandrucco
> Studio Legale Malandrucco
> viale XXI Aprile, 53 =96 04100 Latina
> tel. 0773 692608 =96 fax 0773 472107
> fax2mail/voice box 178 609 7368
> e-mail: um...@ma...
> internet: www.malandrucco.it=20

R: [Envolution-devel] CSS in Borobudur3D

[Avv. U. M. M. <um...@ma...>]

I'm working to let envolution xhtml1.0transitional/CSS compliance with =
w3c
standards and validators
I prepared a draft from Michelangelo theme and it's almost ready
I absolutely agree (and TiMax is with me) to abandon the NS4 support
Some of my changes and suggestions were used for the 125FLS release
I'd like to have a look to the new Borobudur3d theme... ad I'm also =
working
for a guideline draft for the use of css in envolution we can work =
together
on this
Let me know... you can email me privately.

Umberto Maria Malandrucco
______________________________
Avv. Umberto Maria Malandrucco
Studio Legale Malandrucco
viale XXI Aprile, 53 =96 04100 Latina
tel. 0773 692608 =96 fax 0773 472107
fax2mail/voice box 178 609 7368
e-mail: um...@ma...
internet: www.malandrucco.it=20

>-----Messaggio originale-----
>Da: env...@li... =
[mailto:envolution-devel-
>ad...@li...] Per conto di Sjahrazad Alamsjah
>Inviato: gioved=EC 17 luglio 2003 4.10
>A: env...@li...
>Oggetto: Re: [Envolution-devel] CSS in Borobudur3D
>
>Sometimes I used the validator for static html, and mostly never passed
>it:)
>
>And for the source like nuke family I doubt we can use the validator, =
not
>only for the css, the html tags also will not valid. Lot of html tags =
in
>all
>of core / modules files which are not following the html standard.
>
>I just thinking if we can start ignoring the Netscape 4 below, assuming =
in
>2004 lot of users will use the newest browser.
>
>Because if we mixed the css inside the templates it will reduced
>unneccessary nested tables, make it better for rendering speed
>
>sjah
>
>On 16 Jul 2003 15:46:40 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
>> On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 14:12, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
>> > See the tags below, I used this in Borobudur3D. I made a test =
mixing
>the
>css
>> > for left, center and right blocks in the file template. Its only =
need
>around
>> > 40 lines compare to the original html around 200 lines. You can see =
the
>> > result at http://www.uiarch.org/index.php?name=3DCnl_Blocks
>> >
>> > It's really helpfull for designing the layout, or avoiding missing
>closing
>> > tags etc, but my question is, about the browser compatibility. Can =
we
>start
>> > playing around css stuff? what do you think?
>> >
>> > sjah
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Bets thing to do to acheive browser compatability is to stick with
>> W3C standard.
>>
>> We can validate CSS files by URL, Upload, of Text box (via cut-n-
>> paste) at this site:
>>
>> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
>>
>> Zoom
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
>> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single =
machine.
>> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at =
the
>> same time. Free trial click here:
>> http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
>_______________________________________________
>> Envolution-devel mailing list
>> Env...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>
>
>
>Best regards,
>sjah
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
>With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
>WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
>same time. Free trial click here: http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0
>_______________________________________________
>Envolution-devel mailing list
>Env...@li...
>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel
>

[Envolution-devel] eNvo club

[TiMax - E. <web...@en...>]

And now ..... i start with that 

eNvoclub is coming soon!  First club for, development and support of CMS,=
 E-Commerce, E-Learning, professional fanciers, 
and webmasters who want to participate in active mode in one community.  It=
 will have reserved access with possibility 
to have modules, blocks, themes, and services for private use, commercial=
 use, associations or schools exclusive, 
support and access to reserved tools and resources. 
If you want to have access send us a request to env...@en... and=
 tell us something about yourself, what you 
have done, what you want to do, comments, suggestions, or what you would=
 like to do to contribute to development of 
eNvoclub project, in 10 days we will send you answer for your membership=
 request.


TiMax
timax at envolution dot com 

Re: [Envolution-devel] CSS in Borobudur3D

[Sjahrazad A. <sja...@ba...>]

Sometimes I used the validator for static html, and mostly never passed it:)

And for the source like nuke family I doubt we can use the validator, not 
only for the css, the html tags also will not valid. Lot of html tags in all 
of core / modules files which are not following the html standard.

I just thinking if we can start ignoring the Netscape 4 below, assuming in 
2004 lot of users will use the newest browser.

Because if we mixed the css inside the templates it will reduced 
unneccessary nested tables, make it better for rendering speed

sjah

On 16 Jul 2003 15:46:40 -0500, Scott Kindley wrote
> On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 14:12, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> > See the tags below, I used this in Borobudur3D. I made a test mixing the 
css 
> > for left, center and right blocks in the file template. Its only need 
around 
> > 40 lines compare to the original html around 200 lines. You can see the 
> > result at http://www.uiarch.org/index.php?name=Cnl_Blocks
> > 
> > It's really helpfull for designing the layout, or avoiding missing 
closing 
> > tags etc, but my question is, about the browser compatibility. Can we 
start 
> > playing around css stuff? what do you think?
> > 
> > sjah
> > 
> > 
> 
> Bets thing to do to acheive browser compatability is to stick with 
> W3C standard.
> 
> We can validate CSS files by URL, Upload, of Text box (via cut-n-
> paste) at this site:
> 
> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
> 
> Zoom
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: VM Ware
> With VMware you can run multiple operating systems on a single machine.
> WITHOUT REBOOTING! Mix Linux / Windows / Novell virtual machines at the
> same time. Free trial click here: 
> http://www.vmware.com/wl/offer/345/0 
_______________________________________________
> Envolution-devel mailing list
> Env...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/envolution-devel



Best regards,
sjah

[Envolution-devel] Hosting company thread on envo.com forum

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

Please have a peek at JFK's post in this thread:

http://www.envolution.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1007

Perhaps we should eduscate this hosting company since it's fair to say
that they don't have all the facts straight.

Zoom

Re: [Envolution-devel] CSS in Borobudur3D

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Wed, 2003-07-16 at 14:12, Sjahrazad Alamsjah wrote:
> See the tags below, I used this in Borobudur3D. I made a test mixing the css 
> for left, center and right blocks in the file template. Its only need around 
> 40 lines compare to the original html around 200 lines. You can see the 
> result at http://www.uiarch.org/index.php?name=Cnl_Blocks
> 
> It's really helpfull for designing the layout, or avoiding missing closing 
> tags etc, but my question is, about the browser compatibility. Can we start 
> playing around css stuff? what do you think?
> 
> sjah
> 
> 

Bets thing to do to acheive browser compatability is to stick with W3C
standard.

We can validate CSS files by URL, Upload, of Text box (via cut-n-paste)
at this site:

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

Zoom

[Envolution-devel] CSS in Borobudur3D

[Sjahrazad A. <sja...@ba...>]

See the tags below, I used this in Borobudur3D. I made a test mixing the css 
for left, center and right blocks in the file template. Its only need around 
40 lines compare to the original html around 200 lines. You can see the 
result at http://www.uiarch.org/index.php?name=Cnl_Blocks

It's really helpfull for designing the layout, or avoiding missing closing 
tags etc, but my question is, about the browser compatibility. Can we start 
playing around css stuff? what do you think?

sjah


<!-- BODY HEADER Start -->
[-$ZBACKGROUND-]
[-$ZVARIABLE1-]
[-$ZVARIABLE2-]
<!-- BODY HEADER End   -->
<!-- ZONE LOGO Start -->
[-$ZLAYOUTOPEN-]
	<div id="mainleft">[-$ZMAINLOGO-][-$ZLOGO-]</div><BR>
	<div id="mainchannel">[-$ZCHANNEL-]</div><BR>
	<div id="mainchannel">[-$GREETING-]</div>
[-$ZLAYOUTCLOSE-]
<!-- ZONE LOGO End   -->
[-$ZLAYOUTOPEN-]
	<div id="mainleft">[-$LEFTBLOCKS-]</div>
	<div id="maincenter">[-$MAINCONTENT-]</div>
	<div id="mainright">[-$RIGHTBLOCKS-]</div>
[-$ZLAYOUTCLOSE-]
<!-- ZONE 3 COL SIDE End -->
<!-- SEPERATOR LINE  -->
[-$ZVARIABLE2-]
<!-- SEPERATOR LINE  -->
<!-- FOOTER Start -->
[-$ZVARIABLE3-]
[-$ZVARIABLE2-]
[-$ZLAYOUTOPEN-]
		[-$ZTABLEOPEN-]
			[-$ZROWOPEN-]
				<td width="100%" align="right" valign="top" 
bgcolor="[-$BGCOLOR3-]">
				<span class="pn-sub">
				[-FOOTMSG-]
				</span>[-$ZCOLUMNCLOSE-]
			[-$ZROWCLOSE-]
		[-$ZTABLECLOSE-]
[-$ZLAYOUTCLOSE-]
<!-- FOOTER End -->
[-$ZVARIABLE2-]
[-$ZVARIABLE4-]
<!-- Generate Closing line -->
[-$ZVARIABLE1-]

Re: [Envolution-devel] eNvo.de 125FLS Borobudur

[Scott K. <sc...@ki...>]

On Tue, 2003-07-15 at 18:33, Christoph Schwaeppe wrote:
> Stefan aka WindMeUp installed a very nice, new site at
> http://www.germany.envolution.net/
> 
> Please honour that he has done it from hospital! Grazy guy!

Looks very nice with the light green color.

Zoom