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#701 2 Issues: MBF Dogs and Heretic Player Sprites in a Network game.
Windows 11 Pro 64bit O/S
Working on a new launcher for Doom Legacy, I noticed that something seems to have changed having to do with MBF dogs where they seemed to work ok in the 1.48.14 version but in the latest 1.48.18 version they don't want to jump off or fall off a cliff or even leave it. eg: if you run it like:
doomlegacy.exe -opengl -iwad "E:\Doomports\IWADS\doom2.wad" +map MAP01 +dogs_cnt 1 +dogjump 1 +monkeys 1 +dropoff 1 +falloff 1 -file dogs.wad
Again, In the 1.48.14 version they leave the cliff or ledge at the start of Doom2 map01, but in the 1.48.18 version they don't with the same parameters.
Unless in the 1.48.18 version something needs turned on still or turned off that I'm not aware of?
Edit: Actually, it's kind of strange since I've ran other wads instead of just Doom2 map 01 by its self and the dogs roam around freely. It must just be the height of that ledge? I don't know, but it's something to look into.
On the plus side of things in 1.48.18 is I noticed that if I run the same parameters and add some bots and increase the number of MBF dogs that the bots will at least push some of the dogs off the ledge when they all spawn in the map.
doomlegacy.exe -opengl -iwad "E:\Doomports\IWADS\doom2.wad" +map MAP01 +addbot +addbot +addbot +addbot +addbot +addbot +dogs_cnt 12 +dogjump 1 +monkeys 1 +dropoff 1 +falloff 1 -file dogs.wad
Also noticed that the bots don't kill the dogs anymore, which is good! ~ the bots use to kill the poor dogs in the 1.48.14 version.
Heretic:
Noticed another difference between 1.48.14 and 1.48.18
Is that in 1.48.14, Heretic works fine in a network game, DM with bots.
But in the 1.48.18 version, in Heretic. The other players don't show up. They are there as I'm getting shot at, but there's no visible player sprite. And then when you go into the Player 1 Setup, the game crashes.
Thanks
Actually, again with the Heretic issue in 1.48.18 rev 1749.
I just noticed that it doesn't even matter if you're in a Network game. if you just run Heretic and try to go into Player 1 Setup, the game crashes.
There have been a number of things fixed in the upcoming release.
Some of these are massive, and I have discovered some Heretic issues and fixed them.
I do not know how this would affect what you have discovered, but I have to recommend testing with the latest rev to see if it has already been fixed.
The bots and ledges definitely got fixes to work better, but not explicitly dogs. Heretic did have a missing player sprite issue that got fixed.
What happened was MBF21 and DSDA compatibility. I have spent months fixing the issues where it broke things. There are options for most everything, so it is getting really difficult to make sure your settings are the same, but the same config file does the same thing still.
I will also look at your command to see what it does on my system with the current code, but cannot guarantee that I see the same thing.
*** w111_playersprite, rev 1771
The player sprite was missing from Heretic multiplayer.
This bug was introduced with changes for remapping sprites for MBF21 wads,
trying to be compatible with DSDA.
Added more predef mapping structure, to include SPR_PLAY,
and SPR_BLUD in the sprites loaded by Heretic.
*** w111_mapcolor, rev 1772
Revised the am_map scheme for setting the mapcolor,
to one with a structure that can be loaded easily for
Doom, Heretic, and Hexen.
Adjusted the colors for Heretic.
Added cheat "gimme normmap", to return to a normal mapping.
*** w111_bot_weapon, rev 1789
Enhance bot weapon handling to use tables.
The tables include heretic weapons.
*** w111_bot_avoid, rev 1790
Separate the player bump, avoid mobj, and avoid point flags, and
handling. Reorganize some of the avoid logic.
Convert bot look logic to use MT_xxx type compares, and not sprite
name compares. This was broken in the Heretic thing compares.
Make Heretic skullrod range what it was before.
*** w111_friend_enable, rev 1791
Added a menu control to enable friend, so heretic can use bot friends too.
The values are off, on, MBF, auto.
Auto does not do anything special, yet.
Many sections of friend logic are now enabled by EN_friend, instead of EN_mbf.
*** w111_heretic_cheat, rev 1797
Added cheat words for the heretic weapons:
*** w111_heretic_cheat2, rev 1798 (Pending)
Fix the cheats again, so does not return before parsing
entire command.
The problem was introduced with MBF21, which had a comp[comp_ledgeblock], which in doomlegacy is EN_ledgeblock. This blocks monsters from going over ledges.
It is currently enabled by EN_boom and EN_mbf21 (but not EN_mbf for some reason).
This will take some time to figure out what the DSDA compatibility requires and what kind of options switch would fix it. I am considering adding another setting to one of the existing options instead of implementing a new comp ledgeblock option. Probably a dogs specific change, so to not affect the other monsters.
It ought to be affected by come-here too. That should always have dogs go over the ledge.
I really do not feel like doing this test with DSDA, as I do not run DSDA and would have to get a binary working first. I just take its code apart, not play it.
Any chance that you have DSDA and could test what its behavior is with dogs and ledges..
I do have dsda-doom binary for windows, but I have no idea how to enable the parameters to get the dogs.wad to work in DSDA other than loading the pwad -file dogs.wad, since DSDA would have no idea what +dogs_cnt # is. I suppose I'd have to make a custom script for it?
Last edit: Mr.Rocket 2026-09-02
Ah here we go. I tested the MBF dogs in the Woof! source engine. it seems that the dogs AI don't want to leave that first ledge in Doom2's map01 Entryway. I'm not sure why, i suppose it's the strict rules that the AI has to follow, even if I have the parameters set in its config:
[0-3(0)] Number of helper dogs to spawn at map start *
player_helpers 3
[0-1(1)] Make ghost monsters (resurrected pools of gore) translucent
ghost_monsters 1
[0-1(1)] Monsters return to their previous target after losing their current one *
monsters_remember 1
[0-1(1)] Monsters fight each other when provoked *
monster_infighting 1
[0-1(0)] Ranged monsters back away from melee targets *
monster_backing 0
[0-1(1)] Monsters avoid hazards such as crushing ceilings *
monster_avoid_hazards 1
[0-1(0)] Monsters move up/down steep stairs *
monkeys 1
[0-1(1)] Monsters are affected by friction modifiers *
monster_friction 1
[0-1(0)] Monsters prefer targets of injured allies *
help_friends 0
[0-999(128)] Minimum distance that friends keep between each other *
friend_distance 128
[0-1(1)] Dogs are able to jump down from high ledges *
dog_jumping 1
[0-3(3)] Default compatibility level (0 = Vanilla; 1 = Boom; 2 = MBF; 3 = MBF21)
default_complevel 3
The thing is, in the 1.48.14 version you had somehow fixed this, so those dogs in map01 of Doom2 would leave the ledge. Unless it was actually a bug that allowed them to leave?
Either way, in other levels and Pwads, the MBF dogs seem to do what you'd expect, so i'm going to assume it's just a normal limitation of the MBF helpers having to do with the ledge in Doom2 map01.
So, that brings us to the issue in Heretic.
How long do you think it will be until the next upcoming release of Doom Legacy?
Last edit: Mr.Rocket 2026-09-02
I have a patch for the dogs jumping. The logic in MBF21 does not make sense, and it looks like they broke the dogs (in my opinion) but after the fact we never get to question it. Anyway, I have added some DoomLegacy extensions to the dogs behavior, which gives multiple ways to get the dogs to jump off of that ledge without having the possessed also jumping off of their ledges.
One will add a clause that excepts the dogs from the MBF21 ledgeblock, when enabled.
The other is that come-here will expand the range at which the dog jumpdown occurs. Normally the player has to be within 144 units of the dog to get it to jump down from a high place, but come-here will cause that to be 250 units.
It also adds two additional DROPOFF conditions to the code, that give a standard step down to the DROPOFF code, one of which is for dogs.
I have been testing the new code, with various option settings. I want the dogs to not require some special option settings just to follow a player.
Saw the comment on solid corpses. They are supposed to get in the way (IMO). When I played with them the corpses would pile up on the steps and the player could not get up the steps. The answer was to blast them away with the shotgun. Putting a timer on them would pretty much be counter to the whole idea. I prefer to use the console to get the ammo, rather than another cheat on the corpses themselves. I note that in group play the console ammo cheat is out, but there is the option to add extra ammo to the map now.
I have been thinking on it, but am in a rush to get the vermin done for this release, which has been delayed by more than 9 months now, for various reasons. If it is not an outright but, it is going to get put off for now.
If I give up on the vermin sprites, I could release this week, but then that would include new features that are pretty much untested (because I don't have the sprites to see the behvior).
The vermin sprites might be found here https://www.realm667.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=49&Itemid=264 , but I haven't really looked into it. If they're specific enough? You'd think they would just be in the IWAD once loaded. I don't know how much art work could be grabbed from the shareware/demo version of heretic1.wad if you need it. https://ia600601.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/26/items/doom-wads/Heretic%20%28Demo%29.zip
It's possible that the links in my previous post could have copyrighted material, since I posted some old information about the Heretic1 demo/shareware wad. Otherwise, we could just have a placeholder for now of Doom guy with the Heretic sprite names added to the legacy.wad?
Last edit: Mr.Rocket 2026-09-10
To test, and in hopes that something may have changed. I put the Heretic player sprites and placed them between new marker entries S_START and S_END from the Heretic1.wad shareware into the legacy.wad, It didn't make a difference. Going in the options menu, player, player setup, it crashes here still. But it was worth a try.
Funny thing is, the MBF Dogs show up in Heretic, even though they are in the Doom pal colors.
Anyway, Heretic's player sprites use to show up in the 1.48.14 version, but they don't in the 1.48.18 version. So what ever has changed between these versions? I know there was some extra menu selections added since those two releases. I'm not sure if that affected Heretic player selection though.
Would be nice if there was some sort of soft error message having to do with this, since the stderr.txt log doesn't really tell me anything.
~~~
May 1 2025 Doom Legacy 1.48.18 (rev 1749) 03:19:24
Z_Init: Init zone memory allocation daemon.
System memory 2047 MiB, free 2047 MiB
8 MiB requested for Z_Init.
Initializing SDL...
0 joystick(s) found.
StartupGraphics...
VID_SetMode(window,0)
blood lasts for 20 seconds
gravity set to 1
IWAD recognized: Heretic shareware
Heretic shareware
Added file E:\Legacy_heretic_test\IWADS\heretic1.wad (1357 lumps)
Added file E:\Legacy_heretic_test\Engine\doomlegacy_1.48.18_WindowsXP_i686_SDL1_1749/legacy.wad (85 lumps)
executing C:\Users\Username/doomlegacy\config.cfg
RequestFullGraphics...
HWR_Startup()
InitMD2()...
Error while loading md2.dat
using highcolor mode
HU_Init: Setting up heads up display.
Creating polygons, please wait...
Solving T-joins. This may take a while. Please wait...
~~~
I might be totally wrong about this but could the translation tables between the 2 iwads, Doom and Heretic. Could it be stuck on the the Doom color pal there having to do with the Player selection color in the Player Setup menu? If so, that might cause a crash.
Blah, I'll just wait till the next release!
Last edit: Mr.Rocket 2026-09-11
I need the vermin sprite to test the new draw software. Because they use new doomlegacy extended draw modes, older sprites will not suffice. I would have them done by now, but the 3d editor I am using keeps messing up the vertices, slowing work down. I do not yet know what operation I am doing that can mung it up like that.
The Heretic player sprite being missing was patched in ver 1771. It was caused by MBF21 sprite changes, and it had to be added to a list of predef sprites so the new MBF21 sprite code loads it.
I forgot that the MBF dog would be in doom colors. I do not think that any palette difference could cause a crash because all the colors are present for every palette. At worst you would get a strange color.
I keep meaning to test md2 sometime, but never get to it.
Smitemeister had reported that he had segfaults with 64 bit binaries. I run a 32 bit system. I have tried to install an additional 64 bit system to compile 64 bit binaries, but that ran into problems.
I have resolved the problem (I think), but have not got back to finishing that install.
There may be a 64 bit compile problem in the code, and I will have to be running a 64 bit system to find it. I recommend running 32 bit binaries, until such time as I catch up with this problem.
More problems to fix than I have time.
The dog jumping patch was commited, revision 1799.
Oh, I think I see what you mean by 'vermin' now! I originally thought you were talking about the player sprite inside Heretic. Since you mentioned an editor and vertex issues, are you fighting with the md2 grid snapping?
I’ve made a lot of models for my own personal projects. I usually work with md3, but I can export to md2 if you need a hand getting a test model going. I really can't remember how it was setup to make an md2 visible in-game in Legacy. It's likely in the docs somewhere.
Edit: I've managed to get the model to load, since I see the message in the console that it Found: the md2 file in the models folder. But when I go in the opengl options>developer mode and enable md2, it spams in the console that it couldn't load it. I'm not sure why, unless the md2 enabling is currently broken?
Last edit: Mr.Rocket 2026-09-13
Here's another thing I just noticed.. It doesn't have anything to do with the topic but in Gothic 2 DM, gothic2.wad map01.
There's an area in the corner of the map where there's a hole. The rocket launcher is in the hole and sometimes the player spawns there. The player, if when spawns there can't get out of this spawn spot. And if not spawned there, the player can't pick up the rocket launcher.
EDIT:
I looked at the map in the editor. There's actually a triangle sector inside of that 64x64 sector that's double sided with no textures applied and flagged to not be shown in the automap.. What suppose to happen is the weapon and the player should be able to stand on the inside sector. Which means there's still a bug here. The player shouldn't get stuck or fall into that sector hole, and weapons should look as if they float above it. This works on other ports like chocolate doom. But in Legacy, the player and weapons "if spawned there" get stuck inside the sector.
I'm not sure if fixing the issue will bring up net game compatibilities, or if it has anything to do with legacy's player bounding box size. ~ or would it have anything to do with player and item spawn height on map load?
Last edit: Mr.Rocket 2026-09-15
You might want to put any new issues into a different bug report, because 4 months from now I wont know where to look for it. Already behind with this release, so not likely to attack a new thing that is not clear that it affects more than one wad.
The VERMIN are extensions of DoomLegacy that have new monster behaviros and use extended drawing modes (that are NOT md2/md3). The new drawing modes are of extensions of the normal sprite naming scheme. Some use a reduced number of sprite views that are repeated. Others are for small monsters that the user looks down upon, so they have a vertical component to their view angle. These will be used for the rat, spider, etc.. and lights. The new behavior include wall spawning, and wall climbing. So we now have lights on the walls, etc. that are wired into DoomLegacy extended built-in functions. Do not have the time to get all this working, so I may have to disable much of it for this release, sorry.
Does this cover the issues in the original post, can this bug report be closed.
Ah, I see now! And I can't wait to take a look at these new features, well, when the time comes. Either way, sounds pretty cool!
And Understood, most of it will likely be disabled for now.
Yes, thank you.