bodington-developers — Mailing list for Bodington developers

[Bodington-developers] CSS and Colours in Bodington

[Matthew B. <mat...@ou...>]

Background
==========

Bodington allows the colours used in the site to be changed in the
resource properties page. This page is only accessible to the sysadmin.
There are two sets of colours document ones which are used for the
majority of the site and navigation page colours that are used for the
resource tree display (basically just menu.html). Some colours only
exist in one of these sets.

Resource Properties are set as metadata on the resource and most lookups
go through Resource.getProperty() which searches up through the resource
tree until it finds a match, it starts at the current resource.

The colours in the resource properties page will only be used if
"Generate Style Sheet" is set to something other than empty or false.
Although changing this option doesn't seem to force the stylesheet stuff
to get rebuilt so you probably won't see the changes without getting rid
of your session.

There are allot of possible colours to set so here goes at some
documentation of them.

Background Colour (D,N): The background color for the page.

Background Image (D,N): The background image to place on the page.

Foreground Colour (D,N): The colour of the text on the page.

Emphasis Colour (D,N): The colour of emphsised text on the page
(typically <em> and <strong> tags).

Link Colour (D,N): There are a whole host of link (unvisited, visited,
active, hover) options that specify how links should look.

Graphic Colours (D,N): These (foreground/background) colours allow you
to specify the colours that should be used for the navigation icons or
any icon process by processgif servlet. If these are left empty then the
colours #eeeeee and #111111 are used (hardcoded in
Facility.getTemplateGifColourMapper()).

Then there are some resource menu only colours:

Background Colour (N): The two background colours that are used for
resource menu items.

Header Background Colour (N): The resource menu has some headers and
this is the colour that is used to display them.

Border Colour (N): This is the colour of the border that surrounds the
resource menu items and the containing table.

There are also some unaccessible colours that are set in the Bodington
database but are not editable through the web interface:

Table Background Colour (D): This is used to set the background colour
for all the tables used in Bodington that specify the correct CSS class.

Table Background Emphasis Colour (D): This is used to emphasis some
cells of a table, typically the headers.

Extra Emphasis Colour (D): This is the colour used when we really need
to tell the user about something.

Questions
=========

First of all why do we have a different set of colours for the
navigation display?

With Bodington always displaying the resource tree in the context of
other pages (frames) having different colours set for the resource tree
compared to the rest of the site looks strange. What might make sense
would be to have containers displayed in a different set of colours to
the tools so that it was clearer to a user when he had reached a tool,
although I'm not convinced that this is worth it.

Should the the graphic colours not fallback to the standard foreground
and background colours?

If someone wants to quickly customize the colours of the site they might
expect to be able to just change the foreground and background colours
and have everything update. If the graphics followed these colours then
this would be possible but at the moment they just continue to use light
and dark grey.

Why is there table emphasis (<td class="blah">) instead of using the
table heading tag (<th>)?

Most tables should probably use the <th> to denote the emphasises cells
as this shows more clearly that these cells are the headings. There may
still be a call for emphasis in tables (eg the total of your bank
balance) but why not just use the standard emphasis?

Is it acceptable to use the Navigation Colours outside the navigation page?

In the UHI L&F colours such as the Header Background Colour are used for
things like the header in the creation page and management pages.

Should the Graphic Colour in the breadcrumb trail follows the graphic
colours  to which they pertain?

The breadcrumb trail in the top frame show the resource as these icons
represent resources higher up the tree wouldn't it make sense if they
followed the colours of the their own resources? This way it would be
easier to use colours to signify different parts of the tree.

I'll leave it there for now.

Notes
=====

The reason I am looking at this is that we are trying to merge the UHI
creation changes onto WebLearn and there are lots of colours fixed in
the style.css file which means that being able to change the colours no
longer works consistently. It also seems that at the moment more colours
are used that are available in the resource properties.

-- 
 -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer
 -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services
 -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/

Re: [Bodington-developers] email attach prob

[Jon M. <jo...@te...>]

I think I have a very simple fix;

In readMultiPart...

-data.put( parameter_name, readPart() );
+addFormField( data, parameter_name, readPart() );

-data.put( parameter_name, file.getPath() );
+addFormField( data, parameter_name, file.getPath() );

In getParameterValues...

-    String[] v = new String[1];
-    v[0] = (String)data.get( name );
-    if ( v[0]==null )
-        return null;
-    return v;
+    return (String[])data.get( name );


In getParameter....

-    return (String)data.get( name );

+        String[] plist = (String[])data.get( name );
+        if ( plist!=null )
+        return plist[0];
+        return null;


Jon

Antony Corfield wrote:

> req params are held in 2 hastables data and formdata, the former 
> holds  String whilst the latter holds String[]
> When content_type.startsWith( "multipart/form-data" ) readMultiPart  
> method is used to populate data hashtable not formdata
> The implementation of getParameterValues(name) checks if data is null  
> and then returns the String value for the named key as single element  
> array
>
>
>
> On 24 Mar 2006, at 13:35, Jon Maber wrote:
>
>> For some reason the Servlet Specs. have never required servlet  
>> containers to support multipart/form-data.  (Can anyone comment on  
>> whether it is now supported by the latest spec?)  So servlet authors  
>> have had to write their own code for doing all the decoding.  Since  
>> Bodington wraps the containers Request in it's own that provides the  
>> opportunity to improve support - so the readMultiPart() and related  
>> methods were intended to make access to fields in mime multipart 
>> data  work just like the ordinary encoding.
>>
>> However, I think when it was written the servlet spec didn't support  
>> multiple fields with the same name. I suppose the solution is to not  
>> put field values into the Hashtable but Vectors that hold one or 
>> more  fields values with the same name. Shouldn't be difficult to 
>> implement.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Naomi Miles wrote:
>>
>>> Dear peeps
>>>
>>> I have a leedle problem with attachments in the email function 
>>> that   I'm working on.  I think the problem arises from the bod 
>>> specific   Request.  What's happening is that when the template 
>>> <form> is of   ENCTYPE="multipart/form-data" then the rest of the 
>>> template's   parameters are not returned correctly, although the 
>>> attachment part   works like a wee sweetie.  Specifically, I am 
>>> trying to return   checkboxes with the same name, which normally 
>>> would be returned into   a String Array by the 
>>> HttpRequest.getParameterValues method.  Using   the bod 
>>> Request.getParameterValues() method only returns one of the   
>>> selected checkboxes.
>>>
>>> In Request.java it checks to see whether the form has enctype of   
>>> mutipart and then toddles off to a method called readMultiPart()   
>>> (nice naming).  I suspect that this is where the problem lies, as 
>>> the   Hashtable 'data' has parameters put into it bsed on their 
>>> names, and   obviously in this case there could potentially be more 
>>> that one   parameter with the same name.
>>>
>>> Any ideas/opinions/potential solutions? - I don't wanna just hack 
>>> at   it as I don't necessarily fully understand what's going on in 
>>> the   method and I'll probably break something..
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Naomi.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Bodington-developers] email attach prob

[Antony C. <an...@sm...>]

req params are held in 2 hastables data and formdata, the former holds  
String whilst the latter holds String[]
When content_type.startsWith( "multipart/form-data" ) readMultiPart  
method is used to populate data hashtable not formdata
The implementation of getParameterValues(name) checks if data is null  
and then returns the String value for the named key as single element  
array



On 24 Mar 2006, at 13:35, Jon Maber wrote:

> For some reason the Servlet Specs. have never required servlet  
> containers to support multipart/form-data.  (Can anyone comment on  
> whether it is now supported by the latest spec?)  So servlet authors  
> have had to write their own code for doing all the decoding.  Since  
> Bodington wraps the containers Request in it's own that provides the  
> opportunity to improve support - so the readMultiPart() and related  
> methods were intended to make access to fields in mime multipart data  
> work just like the ordinary encoding.
>
> However, I think when it was written the servlet spec didn't support  
> multiple fields with the same name. I suppose the solution is to not  
> put field values into the Hashtable but Vectors that hold one or more  
> fields values with the same name. Shouldn't be difficult to implement.
>
> Jon
>
> Naomi Miles wrote:
>
>> Dear peeps
>>
>> I have a leedle problem with attachments in the email function that   
>> I'm working on.  I think the problem arises from the bod specific   
>> Request.  What's happening is that when the template <form> is of   
>> ENCTYPE="multipart/form-data" then the rest of the template's   
>> parameters are not returned correctly, although the attachment part   
>> works like a wee sweetie.  Specifically, I am trying to return   
>> checkboxes with the same name, which normally would be returned into   
>> a String Array by the HttpRequest.getParameterValues method.  Using   
>> the bod Request.getParameterValues() method only returns one of the   
>> selected checkboxes.
>>
>> In Request.java it checks to see whether the form has enctype of   
>> mutipart and then toddles off to a method called readMultiPart()   
>> (nice naming).  I suspect that this is where the problem lies, as the  
>>  Hashtable 'data' has parameters put into it bsed on their names, and  
>>  obviously in this case there could potentially be more that one   
>> parameter with the same name.
>>
>> Any ideas/opinions/potential solutions? - I don't wanna just hack at   
>> it as I don't necessarily fully understand what's going on in the   
>> method and I'll probably break something..
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Naomi.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live  
> webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
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> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers

RE: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

[Andrew B. <a.g...@le...>]

OK - so UHI and Leeds are now doing it the same way!
Isn't convergence wonderful?

Don't forget the sun block - there's a lot of ultraviolet up there!

Aggie

-----Original Message-----
From: bod...@li...
[mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of
Alistair Young
Sent: 24 March 2006 13:26
To: bod...@li...
Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

LOL! I give in - it's Friday, the sun's out - where's me deckchair
and knotted hankie?

I'd have reservations about the in-context one as it uses an auto
login "feature".

The shibbed version creates users on the fly and adds them into
groups defined in their attributes. It doesn't create fora etc as
that's not shibboleth - that's provisioning - IMS, which we're
looking into.

Ant has a load of useful in-context functionality that does that but
we're thinking of IMSing it or something similar. So bod uses IMS to
create the fora from it's tool and users use shibb to get to the fora.

> has the web service version
> surfaced?
not yet Aggie

Alistair

On 24 Mar 2006, at 13:18, Andrew Booth wrote:

> Urrggle!  I thought we agreed that mvnforum was going in, but it
> would be
> the UHI 'same context' version.  What happened - has the web
> service version
> surfaced?
>
> Aggie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bod...@li...
> [mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf
> Of Paul
> Davis
> Sent: 24 March 2006 12:27
> To: bod...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP
>
> When did we decide MVN forum was definitely going into 2.8?  Which
> implementation of the integration?  How seamless is it to use, and
> can user
> groups/rights be carried across?
>
> When you say Bodington.org as a host are you thinking of blackcat
> networks
> or UHI or Leeds?  We couldn't volunteer here.
>
> Paul
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> Dr Paul V Davis
> Acting Head, Learning Technologies Group
> Project Manager, WebLearn ( Oxford's version of  Bodington.org)
> Oxford University Computing Services
> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN
> Tel: 01865 283414
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bod...@li...
> [mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of
> Alistair Young
> Sent: 24 March 2006 12:09
> To: bod...@li...
> Subject: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP
>
> hey, I'm back - it's sunny here - must be the light!
>
> Anway, mvnforum - I've been told it's going in 2.8 but it's shibbed.
> Now, it needs the Guanxi SP in front of it but it's a lot of overhead
> for a site to learn and maintain - all that federation stuff.
>
> However, if bodington.org hosted the Guanxi SAML Engine module of the
> SP, the we could just distribute Guards with mvnforum and anyone
> wanting to try bod + mvnforum could use the services of the
> bodington.org SP.
>
> Do you, bodders, think this is workable?
>
> Would bodington.org be willing/able to host a bodington federation SP?
>
> Is the idea itself workable? If bodington.org couldn't host it maybe
> we could but it would be nice if it had the bodington.org domain.
>
> Alistair
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language
that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast
and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
_______________________________________________
Bodington-developers mailing list
Bod...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers

Re: [Bodington-developers] email attach prob

[Jon M. <jo...@te...>]

For some reason the Servlet Specs. have never required servlet 
containers to support multipart/form-data.  (Can anyone comment on 
whether it is now supported by the latest spec?)  So servlet authors 
have had to write their own code for doing all the decoding.  Since 
Bodington wraps the containers Request in it's own that provides the 
opportunity to improve support - so the readMultiPart() and related 
methods were intended to make access to fields in mime multipart data 
work just like the ordinary encoding.

However, I think when it was written the servlet spec didn't support 
multiple fields with the same name. I suppose the solution is to not put 
field values into the Hashtable but Vectors that hold one or more fields 
values with the same name. Shouldn't be difficult to implement.

Jon

Naomi Miles wrote:

> Dear peeps
>
> I have a leedle problem with attachments in the email function that  
> I'm working on.  I think the problem arises from the bod specific  
> Request.  What's happening is that when the template <form> is of  
> ENCTYPE="multipart/form-data" then the rest of the template's  
> parameters are not returned correctly, although the attachment part  
> works like a wee sweetie.  Specifically, I am trying to return  
> checkboxes with the same name, which normally would be returned into  
> a String Array by the HttpRequest.getParameterValues method.  Using  
> the bod Request.getParameterValues() method only returns one of the  
> selected checkboxes.
>
> In Request.java it checks to see whether the form has enctype of  
> mutipart and then toddles off to a method called readMultiPart()  
> (nice naming).  I suspect that this is where the problem lies, as the  
> Hashtable 'data' has parameters put into it bsed on their names, and  
> obviously in this case there could potentially be more that one  
> parameter with the same name.
>
> Any ideas/opinions/potential solutions? - I don't wanna just hack at  
> it as I don't necessarily fully understand what's going on in the  
> method and I'll probably break something..
>
> Cheers,
> Naomi.

Re: [Bodington-developers] email attach prob

[Colin T. <col...@ou...>]

Naomi Miles wrote:
> Specifically, I am trying to return 
> checkboxes with the same name, which normally would be returned into a 
> String Array by the HttpRequest.getParameterValues method.  Using the 
> bod Request.getParameterValues() method only returns one of the selected 
> checkboxes.

That's odd. I've used multiple checkboxes with the same name, and they 
appear (or not) in an array as you'd expect. I'll see if we have 
modified any relevant code in WebLearn.

> In Request.java it checks to see whether the form has enctype of 
> mutipart and then toddles off to a method called readMultiPart() (nice 
> naming).  I suspect that this is where the problem lies, as the 
> Hashtable 'data' has parameters put into it bsed on their names, and 
> obviously in this case there could potentially be more that one 
> parameter with the same name.
> 
> Any ideas/opinions/potential solutions? - I don't wanna just hack at it 
> as I don't necessarily fully understand what's going on in the method 
> and I'll probably break something..
> 
> Cheers,
> Naomi.


-- 
____________________________________
Colin Tatham
VLE Team
Oxford University Computing Services

http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
http://bodington.org

Re: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

[Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...>]

LOL! I give in - it's Friday, the sun's out - where's me deckchair  
and knotted hankie?

I'd have reservations about the in-context one as it uses an auto  
login "feature".

The shibbed version creates users on the fly and adds them into  
groups defined in their attributes. It doesn't create fora etc as  
that's not shibboleth - that's provisioning - IMS, which we're  
looking into.

Ant has a load of useful in-context functionality that does that but  
we're thinking of IMSing it or something similar. So bod uses IMS to  
create the fora from it's tool and users use shibb to get to the fora.

> has the web service version
> surfaced?
not yet Aggie

Alistair

On 24 Mar 2006, at 13:18, Andrew Booth wrote:

> Urrggle!  I thought we agreed that mvnforum was going in, but it  
> would be
> the UHI 'same context' version.  What happened - has the web  
> service version
> surfaced?
>
> Aggie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bod...@li...
> [mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf  
> Of Paul
> Davis
> Sent: 24 March 2006 12:27
> To: bod...@li...
> Subject: RE: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP
>
> When did we decide MVN forum was definitely going into 2.8?  Which
> implementation of the integration?  How seamless is it to use, and  
> can user
> groups/rights be carried across?
>
> When you say Bodington.org as a host are you thinking of blackcat  
> networks
> or UHI or Leeds?  We couldn't volunteer here.
>
> Paul
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
> Dr Paul V Davis
> Acting Head, Learning Technologies Group
> Project Manager, WebLearn ( Oxford's version of  Bodington.org)
> Oxford University Computing Services
> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN
> Tel: 01865 283414
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bod...@li...
> [mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of
> Alistair Young
> Sent: 24 March 2006 12:09
> To: bod...@li...
> Subject: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP
>
> hey, I'm back - it's sunny here - must be the light!
>
> Anway, mvnforum - I've been told it's going in 2.8 but it's shibbed.
> Now, it needs the Guanxi SP in front of it but it's a lot of overhead
> for a site to learn and maintain - all that federation stuff.
>
> However, if bodington.org hosted the Guanxi SAML Engine module of the
> SP, the we could just distribute Guards with mvnforum and anyone
> wanting to try bod + mvnforum could use the services of the
> bodington.org SP.
>
> Do you, bodders, think this is workable?
>
> Would bodington.org be willing/able to host a bodington federation SP?
>
> Is the idea itself workable? If bodington.org couldn't host it maybe
> we could but it would be nice if it had the bodington.org domain.
>
> Alistair
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers

[Bodington-developers] email attach prob

[Naomi M. <na...@sm...>]

Dear peeps

I have a leedle problem with attachments in the email function that  
I'm working on.  I think the problem arises from the bod specific  
Request.  What's happening is that when the template <form> is of  
ENCTYPE="multipart/form-data" then the rest of the template's  
parameters are not returned correctly, although the attachment part  
works like a wee sweetie.  Specifically, I am trying to return  
checkboxes with the same name, which normally would be returned into  
a String Array by the HttpRequest.getParameterValues method.  Using  
the bod Request.getParameterValues() method only returns one of the  
selected checkboxes.

In Request.java it checks to see whether the form has enctype of  
mutipart and then toddles off to a method called readMultiPart()  
(nice naming).  I suspect that this is where the problem lies, as the  
Hashtable 'data' has parameters put into it bsed on their names, and  
obviously in this case there could potentially be more that one  
parameter with the same name.

Any ideas/opinions/potential solutions? - I don't wanna just hack at  
it as I don't necessarily fully understand what's going on in the  
method and I'll probably break something..

Cheers,
Naomi.

RE: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

[Andrew B. <a.g...@le...>]

Urrggle!  I thought we agreed that mvnforum was going in, but it would be
the UHI 'same context' version.  What happened - has the web service version
surfaced?

Aggie

-----Original Message-----
From: bod...@li...
[mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of Paul
Davis
Sent: 24 March 2006 12:27
To: bod...@li...
Subject: RE: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

When did we decide MVN forum was definitely going into 2.8?  Which
implementation of the integration?  How seamless is it to use, and can user
groups/rights be carried across?

When you say Bodington.org as a host are you thinking of blackcat networks
or UHI or Leeds?  We couldn't volunteer here.

Paul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Paul V Davis
Acting Head, Learning Technologies Group
Project Manager, WebLearn ( Oxford's version of  Bodington.org)
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN
Tel: 01865 283414





-----Original Message-----
From: bod...@li...
[mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of
Alistair Young
Sent: 24 March 2006 12:09
To: bod...@li...
Subject: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

hey, I'm back - it's sunny here - must be the light!

Anway, mvnforum - I've been told it's going in 2.8 but it's shibbed.
Now, it needs the Guanxi SP in front of it but it's a lot of overhead
for a site to learn and maintain - all that federation stuff.

However, if bodington.org hosted the Guanxi SAML Engine module of the
SP, the we could just distribute Guards with mvnforum and anyone
wanting to try bod + mvnforum could use the services of the
bodington.org SP.

Do you, bodders, think this is workable?

Would bodington.org be willing/able to host a bodington federation SP?

Is the idea itself workable? If bodington.org couldn't host it maybe
we could but it would be nice if it had the bodington.org domain.

Alistair



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Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...>]

;)

On 24 Mar 2006, at 13:10, Jon Maber wrote:

> Alistair Young wrote:
>
>> I'm still open to adding the new tag and the interface if it  
>> makes  everyone happy but I won't be sidetracked by debates about  
>> what a  servlet is.
>
> :-o   ---->    :-|
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Jon M. <jo...@te...>]

Alistair Young wrote:

> I'm still open to adding the new tag and the interface if it makes  
> everyone happy but I won't be sidetracked by debates about what a  
> servlet is.

:-o   ---->    :-|

Re: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

[Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...>]

> When did we decide MVN forum was definitely going into 2.8?
hands up! that's what I heard.

> Which
> implementation of the integration?
what do you mean Paul?

> How seamless is it to use
needs new tool in bod to direct user to mvnforum instead of bod board.

> can user
> groups/rights be carried across?
yes, they come across as SAML Assertions from bod. Means the IdP in  
bod must be turned on to use mvnforum.

> We couldn't volunteer here
fair enough. Maybe we'll run one up here.

thanks,

Alistair


On 24 Mar 2006, at 12:27, Paul Davis wrote:

> When did we decide MVN forum was definitely going into 2.8?  Which
> implementation of the integration?  How seamless is it to use, and  
> can user
> groups/rights be carried across?
>
> When you say Bodington.org as a host are you thinking of blackcat  
> networks
> or UHI or Leeds?  We couldn't volunteer here.
>
> Paul
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ---
> Dr Paul V Davis
> Acting Head, Learning Technologies Group
> Project Manager, WebLearn ( Oxford's version of  Bodington.org)
> Oxford University Computing Services
> 13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN
> Tel: 01865 283414
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: bod...@li...
> [mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of
> Alistair Young
> Sent: 24 March 2006 12:09
> To: bod...@li...
> Subject: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP
>
> hey, I'm back - it's sunny here - must be the light!
>
> Anway, mvnforum - I've been told it's going in 2.8 but it's shibbed.
> Now, it needs the Guanxi SP in front of it but it's a lot of overhead
> for a site to learn and maintain - all that federation stuff.
>
> However, if bodington.org hosted the Guanxi SAML Engine module of the
> SP, the we could just distribute Guards with mvnforum and anyone
> wanting to try bod + mvnforum could use the services of the
> bodington.org SP.
>
> Do you, bodders, think this is workable?
>
> Would bodington.org be willing/able to host a bodington federation SP?
>
> Is the idea itself workable? If bodington.org couldn't host it maybe
> we could but it would be nice if it had the bodington.org domain.
>
> Alistair
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
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> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers

RE: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

[Paul D. <pau...@ou...>]

When did we decide MVN forum was definitely going into 2.8?  Which
implementation of the integration?  How seamless is it to use, and can user
groups/rights be carried across?

When you say Bodington.org as a host are you thinking of blackcat networks
or UHI or Leeds?  We couldn't volunteer here.

Paul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Paul V Davis
Acting Head, Learning Technologies Group
Project Manager, WebLearn ( Oxford's version of  Bodington.org)
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN
Tel: 01865 283414





-----Original Message-----
From: bod...@li...
[mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of
Alistair Young
Sent: 24 March 2006 12:09
To: bod...@li...
Subject: [Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

hey, I'm back - it's sunny here - must be the light!

Anway, mvnforum - I've been told it's going in 2.8 but it's shibbed.  
Now, it needs the Guanxi SP in front of it but it's a lot of overhead  
for a site to learn and maintain - all that federation stuff.

However, if bodington.org hosted the Guanxi SAML Engine module of the  
SP, the we could just distribute Guards with mvnforum and anyone  
wanting to try bod + mvnforum could use the services of the  
bodington.org SP.

Do you, bodders, think this is workable?

Would bodington.org be willing/able to host a bodington federation SP?

Is the idea itself workable? If bodington.org couldn't host it maybe  
we could but it would be nice if it had the bodington.org domain.

Alistair



-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language
that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast
and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory!
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
_______________________________________________
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Bod...@li...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers

[Bodington-developers] bodington.org SP

[Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...>]

hey, I'm back - it's sunny here - must be the light!

Anway, mvnforum - I've been told it's going in 2.8 but it's shibbed.  
Now, it needs the Guanxi SP in front of it but it's a lot of overhead  
for a site to learn and maintain - all that federation stuff.

However, if bodington.org hosted the Guanxi SAML Engine module of the  
SP, the we could just distribute Guards with mvnforum and anyone  
wanting to try bod + mvnforum could use the services of the  
bodington.org SP.

Do you, bodders, think this is workable?

Would bodington.org be willing/able to host a bodington federation SP?

Is the idea itself workable? If bodington.org couldn't host it maybe  
we could but it would be nice if it had the bodington.org domain.

Alistair

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...>]

You're correct in that the tab was there! but the functionality  
appeared about 3-4 months ago. It's driven by our SIS so you can  
understand the delay!

Alistair

On 24 Mar 2006, at 10:47, Colin Tatham wrote:

> Alistair Young wrote:
>>> You've had My Modules since the dawn of time
>> LOL! not quite Colin.
>
> Oh, I stand corrected. I was sure that there was a My Modules tab  
> in the left hand panel when we got the new look and feel from you  
> guys in about 2004?
> So when did My Modules appear?
>
> Colin
>
>> The issue now though is the 2.8 release. My  Modules needs a  
>> database - to match student info and their modules.
>> This is where the plugin debate started! If we ship My Modules in   
>> HEAD then we need to add all the database stuff too - including  
>> the  database and all the uhi specific code.
>> We need to do that as the template calls Facility to output the   
>> module links. So, I suggested a <plugin ... /> tag and a Plugin   
>> interface so we could leave a one line hook in Facility and not  
>> put  My Modules in HEAD. Facility would call the plugin rather  
>> than the  Minerva class which does the work. So, no need for loads  
>> of code no- one will use in HEAD and we can add it to our CLAN  
>> easily.
>> but then we got into a debate about servlets and JSP....
>> I'm still open to adding the new tag and the interface if it  
>> makes  everyone happy but I won't be sidetracked by debates about  
>> what a  servlet is.
>> What I'm proposing is adding a sort of taglib functionality to  
>> the  templates (here we go again).
>> Alistair
>> On 24 Mar 2006, at 09:19, Colin Tatham wrote:
>>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>
>>>> sorry, Colin. That was not an option for you to vote. You are   
>>>> always good
>>>> at this, opting for what isn't on the table. Must be a Boers  
>>>> thing!-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I did vote. It was 2).
>>> I also asked you what you were on about, because there was not   
>>> sufficient consensus from the rest of us to be able to vote on   
>>> anything, the only thing to vote on was does (whatever UHI do)  
>>> go  into HEAD, and we didn't need to go to vote on that...
>>>
>>> By the way, I'm no Boer.
>>>
>>>> We need what al is doing,
>>>
>>>
>>> You've had My Modules since the dawn of time, why is this   
>>> pluggability suddenly such a pressing issue?
>>>
>>>> and we do it as 1 or 2. If 2, then it will come
>>>> into head when we can get it  in through some other mechanism as  
>>>> time
>>>> permits. But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)
>>>> s
>>>> <quote who="Colin Tatham">
>>>>
>>>>> Colin Tatham wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If possible, I'd say Alistair holds off doing his thing   
>>>>>> (specially for
>>>>>> 2.8) and we look at what comes out of Matthew's work on the   
>>>>>> Spring stuff
>>>>>> (or Al collaborates with Matthew on it.)
>>>>> prominent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, also meant to mention that what Matthew's doing doesn't   
>>>>> involve
>>>>> switching over to JSPs wholesale -- JSPs and templates can co-  
>>>>> exist...
>>>>>
>>>>> Colin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 15:29, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I vote for 1)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> within 1) I would be happy for the specific method to be  
>>>>>>>> based on
>>>>>>>> Alistair's suggestion
>>>>>>>> of an additional tag. However, if that gets voted down I would
>>>>>>>> suggest the exposure
>>>>>>>> of the ServletContext object within XMLTemplateProcessor so any
>>>>>>>> named servlet
>>>>>>>> can be called from a tempate.prominent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a   
>>>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>>>>> Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start
>>>>>>>>> coupling in
>>>>>>>>> stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and  
>>>>>>>>> Aggie  said they
>>>>>>>>> would be interested in at least in principle.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Therefore, we need to reach a decision:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting  
>>>>>>>>> functionality  that
>>>>>>>>> can go
>>>>>>>>> into HEAD;
>>>>>>>>> 2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1 OR 2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <quote who="Alistair Young">
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include  
>>>>>>>>>>> ( request,
>>>>>>>>>>> response )
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to   
>>>>>>>>>> insulate page
>>>>>>>>>> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are  
>>>>>>>>>> for.  That's
>>>>>>>>>> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go   
>>>>>>>>>> down the
>>>>>>>>>> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
>>>>>>>>>> functionality we want.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be  
>>>>>>>>>> best  to wait
>>>>>>>>>> and see what we can use of that to give us the  
>>>>>>>>>> functionality we
>>>>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to  
>>>>>>>>>>>> go  - half
>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed  
>>>>>>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for  
>>>>>>>>>>> see  the
>>>>>>>>>>> method;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>  ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>>>>>>>>>>> ServletContext.html)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> types  to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> template DTD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at  
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's  
>>>>>>>>>>>> by bod
>>>>>>>>>>>> internals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a  
>>>>>>>>>>> standard
>>>>>>>>>>> thing that servlets do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> P>" );
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that's how bod works though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's  
>>>>>>>>>>>> been an
>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with   
>>>>>>>>>>> your plugin
>>>>>>>>>>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not   
>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>>>>>>>>>>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method  
>>>>>>>>>>> they  can't
>>>>>>>>>>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a   
>>>>>>>>>>> line or two
>>>>>>>>>>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>>>>>>>>>>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>>>>>>>>>>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request,   
>>>>>>>>>>> response ).  I
>>>>>>>>>>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's  
>>>>>>>>>>> basically  the
>>>>>>>>>>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the   
>>>>>>>>>>> servlet spec -
>>>>>>>>>>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking   
>>>>>>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media.  
>>>>>>>>>>> Attend  the
>>>>>>>>>>> live webcast
>>>>>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this  
>>>>>>>>>>> new  coding
>>>>>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-  
>>>>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking   
>>>>>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media.  
>>>>>>>>>> Attend  the live
>>>>>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new   
>>>>>>>>>> coding
>>>>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-  
>>>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking   
>>>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend   
>>>>>>>> the  live
>>>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new  
>>>>>>>> coding
>>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington- 
>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking  
>>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend  
>>>>>>> the  live
>>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?  
>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington- 
>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> ____________________________________
>>>>> Colin Tatham
>>>>> VLE Team
>>>>> Oxford University Computing Services
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
>>>>> http://bodington.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>> language
>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
>>>>> live
>>>>> webcast
>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>> territory!
>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?  
>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> ____________________________________
>>> Colin Tatham
>>> VLE Team
>>> Oxford University Computing Services
>>>
>>> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
>>> http://bodington.org
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking  
>>> scripting  language
>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the   
>>> live webcast
>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding   
>>> territory!
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>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>> Bod...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
>> language
>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
>> live webcast
>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>> Bod...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
>
> -- 
> ____________________________________
> Colin Tatham
> VLE Team
> Oxford University Computing Services
>
> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
> http://bodington.org
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
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> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Colin T. <col...@ou...>]

Alistair Young wrote:
>> You've had My Modules since the dawn of time
> 
> LOL! not quite Colin.

Oh, I stand corrected. I was sure that there was a My Modules tab in the 
left hand panel when we got the new look and feel from you guys in about 
2004?
So when did My Modules appear?

Colin

> The issue now though is the 2.8 release. My  
> Modules needs a database - to match student info and their modules.
> 
> This is where the plugin debate started! If we ship My Modules in  HEAD 
> then we need to add all the database stuff too - including the  database 
> and all the uhi specific code.
> 
> We need to do that as the template calls Facility to output the  module 
> links. So, I suggested a <plugin ... /> tag and a Plugin  interface so 
> we could leave a one line hook in Facility and not put  My Modules in 
> HEAD. Facility would call the plugin rather than the  Minerva class 
> which does the work. So, no need for loads of code no- one will use in 
> HEAD and we can add it to our CLAN easily.
> 
> but then we got into a debate about servlets and JSP....
> 
> I'm still open to adding the new tag and the interface if it makes  
> everyone happy but I won't be sidetracked by debates about what a  
> servlet is.
> 
> What I'm proposing is adding a sort of taglib functionality to the  
> templates (here we go again).
> 
> Alistair
> 
> 
> On 24 Mar 2006, at 09:19, Colin Tatham wrote:
> 
>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>
>>> sorry, Colin. That was not an option for you to vote. You are  always 
>>> good
>>> at this, opting for what isn't on the table. Must be a Boers thing!-)
>>
>>
>> I did vote. It was 2).
>> I also asked you what you were on about, because there was not  
>> sufficient consensus from the rest of us to be able to vote on  
>> anything, the only thing to vote on was does (whatever UHI do) go  
>> into HEAD, and we didn't need to go to vote on that...
>>
>> By the way, I'm no Boer.
>>
>>> We need what al is doing,
>>
>>
>> You've had My Modules since the dawn of time, why is this  
>> pluggability suddenly such a pressing issue?
>>
>>> and we do it as 1 or 2. If 2, then it will come
>>> into head when we can get it  in through some other mechanism as time
>>> permits. But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)
>>> s
>>> <quote who="Colin Tatham">
>>>
>>>> Colin Tatham wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If possible, I'd say Alistair holds off doing his thing  (specially 
>>>>> for
>>>>> 2.8) and we look at what comes out of Matthew's work on the  Spring 
>>>>> stuff
>>>>> (or Al collaborates with Matthew on it.)
>>>>prominent.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, also meant to mention that what Matthew's doing doesn't  involve
>>>> switching over to JSPs wholesale -- JSPs and templates can co- exist...
>>>>
>>>> Colin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 15:29, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I vote for 1)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> within 1) I would be happy for the specific method to be based on
>>>>>>> Alistair's suggestion
>>>>>>> of an additional tag. However, if that gets voted down I would
>>>>>>> suggest the exposure
>>>>>>> of the ServletContext object within XMLTemplateProcessor so any
>>>>>>> named servlet
>>>>>>> can be called from a tempate.prominent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a  meeting in
>>>>>>>> Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start
>>>>>>>> coupling in
>>>>>>>> stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie  
>>>>>>>> said they
>>>>>>>> would be interested in at least in principle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Therefore, we need to reach a decision:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality  that
>>>>>>>> can go
>>>>>>>> into HEAD;
>>>>>>>> 2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1 OR 2.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <quote who="Alistair Young">
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include ( 
>>>>>>>>>> request,
>>>>>>>>>> response )
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to  insulate 
>>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>>> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for.  
>>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>>> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go  down the
>>>>>>>>> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
>>>>>>>>> functionality we want.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best  to 
>>>>>>>>> wait
>>>>>>>>> and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we
>>>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go  - 
>>>>>>>>>>> half
>>>>>>>>>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see  the
>>>>>>>>>> method;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>>>>>>>>>> ServletContext.html)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag types  to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> template DTD
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>>>>>>>>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>>>>>>>>>> internals.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>>>>>>>>>> thing that servlets do.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> that's how bod works though!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>>>>>>>>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with  your 
>>>>>>>>>> plugin
>>>>>>>>>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not  
>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>>>>>>>>>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they  can't
>>>>>>>>>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a  line 
>>>>>>>>>> or two
>>>>>>>>>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>>>>>>>>>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>>>>>>>>>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request,  response 
>>>>>>>>>> ).  I
>>>>>>>>>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically  the
>>>>>>>>>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the  servlet 
>>>>>>>>>> spec -
>>>>>>>>>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking  
>>>>>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend  the
>>>>>>>>>> live webcast
>>>>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new  coding
>>>>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington- 
>>>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking  
>>>>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend  
>>>>>>>>> the live
>>>>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new  coding
>>>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington- developers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking  scripting
>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend  the  
>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>>> language
>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  live
>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> ____________________________________
>>>> Colin Tatham
>>>> VLE Team
>>>> Oxford University Computing Services
>>>>
>>>> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
>>>> http://bodington.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>> language
>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>>>> webcast
>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>> territory!
>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ____________________________________
>> Colin Tatham
>> VLE Team
>> Oxford University Computing Services
>>
>> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
>> http://bodington.org
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
>> language
>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  live 
>> webcast
>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
>> territory!
>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>> Bod...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live 
> webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
> 
> 


-- 
____________________________________
Colin Tatham
VLE Team
Oxford University Computing Services

http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
http://bodington.org

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Matthew B. <mat...@ou...>]

Alistair Young wrote:
>>But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)
> 
> absolutely
> 
> The consensus seems to be 2, so I'll just make sure I don't do too much on
> it just now.
> 
> If I can help with Matthew's vision then just let me know. Seems that
> could be the way to go. Especially if we can have left.jsp. Now, that
> would open sooooo many doors :)

By all means. I think the tgz should build and work although the
MyWebLearn stuff isn't finished yet.

-- 
 -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer
 -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services
 -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...>]

> You've had My Modules since the dawn of time
LOL! not quite Colin. The issue now though is the 2.8 release. My  
Modules needs a database - to match student info and their modules.

This is where the plugin debate started! If we ship My Modules in  
HEAD then we need to add all the database stuff too - including the  
database and all the uhi specific code.

We need to do that as the template calls Facility to output the  
module links. So, I suggested a <plugin ... /> tag and a Plugin  
interface so we could leave a one line hook in Facility and not put  
My Modules in HEAD. Facility would call the plugin rather than the  
Minerva class which does the work. So, no need for loads of code no- 
one will use in HEAD and we can add it to our CLAN easily.

but then we got into a debate about servlets and JSP....

I'm still open to adding the new tag and the interface if it makes  
everyone happy but I won't be sidetracked by debates about what a  
servlet is.

What I'm proposing is adding a sort of taglib functionality to the  
templates (here we go again).

Alistair


On 24 Mar 2006, at 09:19, Colin Tatham wrote:

> Sean Mehan wrote:
>> sorry, Colin. That was not an option for you to vote. You are  
>> always good
>> at this, opting for what isn't on the table. Must be a Boers thing!-)
>
> I did vote. It was 2).
> I also asked you what you were on about, because there was not  
> sufficient consensus from the rest of us to be able to vote on  
> anything, the only thing to vote on was does (whatever UHI do) go  
> into HEAD, and we didn't need to go to vote on that...
>
> By the way, I'm no Boer.
>
>> We need what al is doing,
>
> You've had My Modules since the dawn of time, why is this  
> pluggability suddenly such a pressing issue?
>
>> and we do it as 1 or 2. If 2, then it will come
>> into head when we can get it  in through some other mechanism as time
>> permits. But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)
>> s
>> <quote who="Colin Tatham">
>>> Colin Tatham wrote:
>>>
>>>> If possible, I'd say Alistair holds off doing his thing  
>>>> (specially for
>>>> 2.8) and we look at what comes out of Matthew's work on the  
>>>> Spring stuff
>>>> (or Al collaborates with Matthew on it.)
>>>
>>> Sorry, also meant to mention that what Matthew's doing doesn't  
>>> involve
>>> switching over to JSPs wholesale -- JSPs and templates can co- 
>>> exist...
>>>
>>> Colin
>>>
>>>
>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 15:29, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I vote for 1)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> within 1) I would be happy for the specific method to be based on
>>>>>> Alistair's suggestion
>>>>>> of an additional tag. However, if that gets voted down I would
>>>>>> suggest the exposure
>>>>>> of the ServletContext object within XMLTemplateProcessor so any
>>>>>> named servlet
>>>>>> can be called from a tempate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a  
>>>>>>> meeting in
>>>>>>> Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start
>>>>>>> coupling in
>>>>>>> stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie  
>>>>>>> said they
>>>>>>> would be interested in at least in principle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Therefore, we need to reach a decision:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality  
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> can go
>>>>>>> into HEAD;
>>>>>>> 2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1 OR 2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <quote who="Alistair Young">
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include 
>>>>>>>>> ( request,
>>>>>>>>> response )
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to  
>>>>>>>> insulate page
>>>>>>>> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for.  
>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go  
>>>>>>>> down the
>>>>>>>> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
>>>>>>>> functionality we want.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best  
>>>>>>>> to wait
>>>>>>>> and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we
>>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go  
>>>>>>>>>> - half
>>>>>>>>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see  
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> method;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>>>>>>>>> ServletContext.html)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag types  
>>>>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>> template DTD
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>>>>>>>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>>>>>>>>> internals.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>>>>>>>>> thing that servlets do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> that's how bod works though!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>>>>>>>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with  
>>>>>>>>> your plugin
>>>>>>>>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not  
>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>>>>>>>>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they  
>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a  
>>>>>>>>> line or two
>>>>>>>>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>>>>>>>>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>>>>>>>>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request,  
>>>>>>>>> response ).  I
>>>>>>>>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically  
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the  
>>>>>>>>> servlet spec -
>>>>>>>>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking  
>>>>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend  
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> live webcast
>>>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new  
>>>>>>>>> coding
>>>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington- 
>>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking  
>>>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend  
>>>>>>>> the live
>>>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new  
>>>>>>>> coding
>>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington- 
>>>>>>>> developers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking  
>>>>>> scripting
>>>>>> language
>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend  
>>>>>> the  live
>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>> language
>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
>>>>> live
>>>>> webcast
>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>> territory!
>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ____________________________________
>>> Colin Tatham
>>> VLE Team
>>> Oxford University Computing Services
>>>
>>> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
>>> http://bodington.org
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>> language
>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>>> webcast
>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>> territory!
>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>> Bod...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> ____________________________________
> Colin Tatham
> VLE Team
> Oxford University Computing Services
>
> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
> http://bodington.org
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting  
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  
> live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding  
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? 
> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Colin T. <col...@ou...>]

Sean Mehan wrote:
> sorry, Colin. That was not an option for you to vote. You are always good
> at this, opting for what isn't on the table. Must be a Boers thing!-)

I did vote. It was 2).
I also asked you what you were on about, because there was not 
sufficient consensus from the rest of us to be able to vote on anything, 
the only thing to vote on was does (whatever UHI do) go into HEAD, and 
we didn't need to go to vote on that...

By the way, I'm no Boer.

> We need what al is doing,

You've had My Modules since the dawn of time, why is this pluggability 
suddenly such a pressing issue?

> and we do it as 1 or 2. If 2, then it will come
> into head when we can get it  in through some other mechanism as time
> permits. But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)
> 
> 
> s
> 
> 
> <quote who="Colin Tatham">
> 
>>Colin Tatham wrote:
>>
>>>If possible, I'd say Alistair holds off doing his thing (specially for
>>>2.8) and we look at what comes out of Matthew's work on the Spring stuff
>>>(or Al collaborates with Matthew on it.)
>>
>>Sorry, also meant to mention that what Matthew's doing doesn't involve
>>switching over to JSPs wholesale -- JSPs and templates can co-exist...
>>
>>Colin
>>
>>
>>>>On 23 Mar 2006, at 15:29, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I vote for 1)
>>>>>
>>>>>within 1) I would be happy for the specific method to be based on
>>>>>Alistair's suggestion
>>>>>of an additional tag. However, if that gets voted down I would
>>>>>suggest the exposure
>>>>>of the ServletContext object within XMLTemplateProcessor so any
>>>>>named servlet
>>>>>can be called from a tempate.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a meeting in
>>>>>>Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start
>>>>>>coupling in
>>>>>>stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie said they
>>>>>>would be interested in at least in principle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Therefore, we need to reach a decision:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality that
>>>>>>can go
>>>>>>into HEAD;
>>>>>>2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1 OR 2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>Sean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><quote who="Alistair Young">
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request,
>>>>>>>>response )
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to insulate page
>>>>>>>developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for. That's
>>>>>>>why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go down the
>>>>>>>servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
>>>>>>>functionality we want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best to wait
>>>>>>>and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we
>>>>>>>need.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Alistair
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Alistair Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You won't be going near Facility.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go - half
>>>>>>>>>hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see the
>>>>>>>>method;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>>>>>>>>ServletContext.html)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I think it can be done without adding any new tag types to the
>>>>>>>>>>template DTD
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>>>>>>>>problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>>>>>>>>internals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>>>>>>>>thing that servlets do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>that's how bod works though!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It's not how bod templates work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>>>>>>>>interesting ride getting there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with your plugin
>>>>>>>>tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not going to
>>>>>>>>be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>>>>>>>>developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they can't
>>>>>>>>easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a line or two
>>>>>>>>of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>>>>>>>>ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>>>>>>>>getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request, response ).  I
>>>>>>>>don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically the
>>>>>>>>same as what you're proposing but compliant with the servlet spec -
>>>>>>>>i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Jon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>>>>>language
>>>>>>>>that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
>>>>>>>>live webcast
>>>>>>>>and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>>>>territory!
>>>>>>>>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>>cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>>Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>>>>language
>>>>>>>that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>>>>>>>webcast
>>>>>>>and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>>>territory!
>>>>>>>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>>language
>>>>>that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  live
>>>>>webcast
>>>>>and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>territory!
>>>>>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>Bod...@li...
>>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>language
>>>>that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>>>>webcast
>>>>and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>territory!
>>>>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>Bod...@li...
>>>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>--
>>____________________________________
>>Colin Tatham
>>VLE Team
>>Oxford University Computing Services
>>
>>http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
>>http://bodington.org
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>language
>>that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>>webcast
>>and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>territory!
>>http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>_______________________________________________
>>Bodington-developers mailing list
>>Bod...@li...
>>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>
> 
> 
> 


-- 
____________________________________
Colin Tatham
VLE Team
Oxford University Computing Services

http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
http://bodington.org

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...>]

> But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)
absolutely

The consensus seems to be 2, so I'll just make sure I don't do too much o=
n
it just now.

If I can help with Matthew's vision then just let me know. Seems that
could be the way to go. Especially if we can have left.jsp. Now, that
would open sooooo many doors :)

Thanks for a spiffing workout bodders. Off back to lurkerland (hooray I
hear you say!)

Alistair


--=20
Alistair Young
Senior Software Engineer
UHI@Sabhal M=F2r Ostaig
Isle of Skye
Scotland

> sorry, Colin. That was not an option for you to vote. You are always go=
od
> at this, opting for what isn't on the table. Must be a Boers thing!-)
>
> We need what al is doing, and we do it as 1 or 2. If 2, then it will co=
me
> into head when we can get it  in through some other mechanism as time
> permits. But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)
>
>
> s
>
>
> <quote who=3D"Colin Tatham">
>> Colin Tatham wrote:
>>> If possible, I'd say Alistair holds off doing his thing (specially fo=
r
>>> 2.8) and we look at what comes out of Matthew's work on the Spring
>>> stuff
>>> (or Al collaborates with Matthew on it.)
>>
>> Sorry, also meant to mention that what Matthew's doing doesn't involve
>> switching over to JSPs wholesale -- JSPs and templates can co-exist...
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 15:29, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I vote for 1)
>>>>>
>>>>> within 1) I would be happy for the specific method to be based on
>>>>> Alistair's suggestion
>>>>> of an additional tag. However, if that gets voted down I would
>>>>> suggest the exposure
>>>>> of the ServletContext object within XMLTemplateProcessor so any
>>>>> named servlet
>>>>> can be called from a tempate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a meeting in
>>>>>> Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start
>>>>>> coupling in
>>>>>> stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie said
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> would be interested in at least in principle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore, we need to reach a decision:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality that
>>>>>> can go
>>>>>> into HEAD;
>>>>>> 2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 OR 2.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Sean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <quote who=3D"Alistair Young">
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include(
>>>>>>>> request,
>>>>>>>> response )
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to insulate pag=
e
>>>>>>> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for. That=
's
>>>>>>> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go down the
>>>>>>> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
>>>>>>> functionality we want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best to wai=
t
>>>>>>> and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we
>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go - hal=
f
>>>>>>>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see the
>>>>>>>> method;
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>>>>>>>> ServletContext.html)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag types to the
>>>>>>>>>> template DTD
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>>>>>>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>>>>>>>> internals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>>>>>>>> thing that servlets do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> that's how bod works though!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>>>>>>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with your
>>>>>>>> plugin
>>>>>>>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not going t=
o
>>>>>>>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>>>>>>>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they can't
>>>>>>>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a line or
>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>>>>>>>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>>>>>>>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request, response ). =
 I
>>>>>>>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically the
>>>>>>>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the servlet spe=
c
>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripti=
ng
>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
>>>>>>>> live webcast
>>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>>> cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat=3D121642
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developer=
s
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scriptin=
g
>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
>>>>>>> live
>>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>> cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat=3D121642
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>> language
>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  li=
ve
>>>>> webcast
>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>> territory!
>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>> cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat=3D121642
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>> language
>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>>>> webcast
>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>> territory!
>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&=
dat=3D121642
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ____________________________________
>> Colin Tatham
>> VLE Team
>> Oxford University Computing Services
>>
>> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
>> http://bodington.org
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>> language
>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>> webcast
>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>> territory!
>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&da=
t=3D121642
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>> Bod...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>
>
>
> --
> Sean Mehan
> Head of e-Frameworks
> Learning and Information Services
> UHI
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
> webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=110944&bid$1720&dat=12164=
2
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Sean M. <se...@sm...>]

sorry, Colin. That was not an option for you to vote. You are always good
at this, opting for what isn't on the table. Must be a Boers thing!-)

We need what al is doing, and we do it as 1 or 2. If 2, then it will come
into head when we can get it  in through some other mechanism as time
permits. But 1 or 2, it will be at UHI next month!-)


s


<quote who=3D"Colin Tatham">
> Colin Tatham wrote:
>> If possible, I'd say Alistair holds off doing his thing (specially for
>> 2.8) and we look at what comes out of Matthew's work on the Spring stu=
ff
>> (or Al collaborates with Matthew on it.)
>
> Sorry, also meant to mention that what Matthew's doing doesn't involve
> switching over to JSPs wholesale -- JSPs and templates can co-exist...
>
> Colin
>
>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 15:29, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>
>>>> I vote for 1)
>>>>
>>>> within 1) I would be happy for the specific method to be based on
>>>> Alistair's suggestion
>>>> of an additional tag. However, if that gets voted down I would
>>>> suggest the exposure
>>>> of the ServletContext object within XMLTemplateProcessor so any
>>>> named servlet
>>>> can be called from a tempate.
>>>>
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a meeting in
>>>>> Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start
>>>>> coupling in
>>>>> stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie said th=
ey
>>>>> would be interested in at least in principle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Therefore, we need to reach a decision:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality that
>>>>> can go
>>>>> into HEAD;
>>>>> 2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 OR 2.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Sean
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <quote who=3D"Alistair Young">
>>>>>
>>>>>>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( reques=
t,
>>>>>>> response )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to insulate page
>>>>>> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for. That'=
s
>>>>>> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go down the
>>>>>> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
>>>>>> functionality we want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best to wait
>>>>>> and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we
>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go - half
>>>>>>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see the
>>>>>>> method;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>>>>>>> ServletContext.html)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag types to the
>>>>>>>>> template DTD
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>>>>>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>>>>>>> internals.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>>>>>>> thing that servlets do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that's how bod works though!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>>>>>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with your plug=
in
>>>>>>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not going to
>>>>>>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>>>>>>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they can't
>>>>>>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a line or t=
wo
>>>>>>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>>>>>>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>>>>>>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request, response ).  =
I
>>>>>>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically the
>>>>>>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the servlet spec=
 -
>>>>>>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scriptin=
g
>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
>>>>>>> live webcast
>>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>>> cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat=3D121642
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>>> language
>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the li=
ve
>>>>>> webcast
>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>> cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat=3D121642
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>> language
>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the  liv=
e
>>>> webcast
>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>> territory!
>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>> cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat=3D121642
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>> language
>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>>> webcast
>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>> territory!
>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&d=
at=3D121642
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>> Bod...@li...
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ____________________________________
> Colin Tatham
> VLE Team
> Oxford University Computing Services
>
> http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
> http://bodington.org
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
> language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
> webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
> territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat=
=3D121642
> _______________________________________________
> Bodington-developers mailing list
> Bod...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>


--=20
Sean Mehan
Head of e-Frameworks
Learning and Information Services
UHI

RE: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Andrew B. <a.g...@le...>]

2=20

Aggie

-----Original Message-----
From: bod...@li...
[mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of =
Sean
Mehan
Sent: 23 March 2006 15:24
To: bod...@li...
Cc: bod...@li...
Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a meeting in
Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.

However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start coupling in
stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie said they
would be interested in at least in principle.

Therefore, we need to reach a decision:

1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality that can go
into HEAD;
2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.

1 OR 2.

Thanks,
Sean



<quote who=3D"Alistair Young">
>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request,
>> response )
> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to insulate page
> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for. That's
> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go down the
> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
> functionality we want.
>
> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best to wait
> and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we need.
>
> Alistair
>
>
> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>
>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>
>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>
>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go - half
>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>
>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see the
>> method;
>>
>>
>>    ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>
>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>> ServletContext.html)
>>
>>>
>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag types to the
>>>> template DTD
>>>
>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>> internals.
>>
>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>> thing that servlets do.
>>
>>>
>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>
>>> that's how bod works though!
>>
>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>
>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>
>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with your plugin
>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not going to
>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they can't
>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a line or two
>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request, response ).  I
>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically the
>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the servlet spec -
>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>> language
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--=20
Sean Mehan
Head of e-Frameworks
Learning and Information Services
UHI


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RE: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Paul D. <pau...@ou...>]

I think it's too early and unproven to go into the next release, so it =
has
to be=20
2
Paul

-------------------------------------------------------------------------=

Dr Paul V Davis
Acting Head, Learning Technologies Group
Project Manager, WebLearn ( Oxford's version of  Bodington.org)
Oxford University Computing Services
13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN
Tel: 01865 283414





-----Original Message-----
From: bod...@li...
[mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of =
Sean
Mehan
Sent: 23 March 2006 15:24
To: bod...@li...
Cc: bod...@li...
Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a meeting in
Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.

However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start coupling in
stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie said they
would be interested in at least in principle.

Therefore, we need to reach a decision:

1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality that can go
into HEAD;
2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.

1 OR 2.

Thanks,
Sean



<quote who=3D"Alistair Young">
>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request,
>> response )
> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to insulate page
> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for. That's
> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go down the
> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
> functionality we want.
>
> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best to wait
> and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we need.
>
> Alistair
>
>
> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>
>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>
>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>
>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go - half
>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>
>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see the
>> method;
>>
>>
>>    ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>
>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>> ServletContext.html)
>>
>>>
>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag types to the
>>>> template DTD
>>>
>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>> internals.
>>
>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>> thing that servlets do.
>>
>>>
>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>
>>> that's how bod works though!
>>
>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>
>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>
>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with your plugin
>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not going to
>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they can't
>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a line or two
>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request, response ).  I
>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically the
>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the servlet spec -
>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
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>> language
>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
>> live webcast
>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>> territory!
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>> cmd=3Dlnk&kid=3D110944&bid=3D241720&dat=3D121642
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>> Bod...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> language
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> webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
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>


--=20
Sean Mehan
Head of e-Frameworks
Learning and Information Services
UHI


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting =
language
that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live =
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and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding =
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RE: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Peter C. <Pet...@me...>]

> From: Sean Mehan
> 1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality=20
> that can go into HEAD;
> 2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.

Just a quick clarification request.  Sean, I recall you saying in the
past that UHI are developing CLAN on a branch of Bodington at
SourceForge (although I can't find it in my mailbox anywhere).
Presumably this means that merging such a change into the trunk later
would be relatively simple?  Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

		- Peter

Re: [Bodington-developers] Plugin interface

[Colin T. <col...@ou...>]

Colin Tatham wrote:
> If possible, I'd say Alistair holds off doing his thing (specially for 
> 2.8) and we look at what comes out of Matthew's work on the Spring stuff 
> (or Al collaborates with Matthew on it.)

Sorry, also meant to mention that what Matthew's doing doesn't involve 
switching over to JSPs wholesale -- JSPs and templates can co-exist...

Colin

>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 15:29, Jon Maber wrote:
>>
>>> I vote for 1)
>>>
>>> within 1) I would be happy for the specific method to be based on  
>>> Alistair's suggestion
>>> of an additional tag. However, if that gets voted down I would  
>>> suggest the exposure
>>> of the ServletContext object within XMLTemplateProcessor so any  
>>> named servlet
>>> can be called from a tempate.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>>
>>> Sean Mehan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi. I've been lurking on this one, as I'm sitting in a meeting in
>>>> Hannover. However, tis been an interesting debate.
>>>>
>>>> However, alistair is trying to get a method to work to start  
>>>> coupling in
>>>> stuff to bod now. This would lead to mods that Ox and Aggie said they
>>>> would be interested in at least in principle.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, we need to reach a decision:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Agree a method for code to go in supporting functionality that  
>>>> can go
>>>> into HEAD;
>>>> 2) Agree that this will be a UHI only mod.
>>>>
>>>> 1 OR 2.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Sean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <quote who="Alistair Young">
>>>>
>>>>>> so you can call getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request,
>>>>>> response )
>>>>>>
>>>>> but that's where we differ Jon. JSPs are designed to insulate page
>>>>> developers from code like that. That's what taglibs are for. That's
>>>>> why I suggested a new tag. That's why I don't want to go down the
>>>>> servlet route. No-one else does these days to get the type of
>>>>> functionality we want.
>>>>>
>>>>> In light of what Matthew's being working on, it'll be best to wait
>>>>> and see what we can use of that to give us the functionality we  need.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alistair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23 Mar 2006, at 14:57, Jon Maber wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alistair Young wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You won't be going near Facility.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know Jon but I'll be going somewhere I don't want to go - half
>>>>>>> hidden servlets - that's not what servlets are designed for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is one of the things that servlets were designed for see the
>>>>>> method;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   ServletContext.getNamedDispatcher(String name)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (http://java.sun.com/j2ee/1.4/docs/api/javax/servlet/
>>>>>> ServletContext.html)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think it can be done without adding any new tag types to the
>>>>>>>> template DTD
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and I think it can ... just different ways of looking at the
>>>>>>> problem.  My view is influenced by JSPs/taglibs,your's by bod
>>>>>>> internals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I'm not thinking of Bod at all - 'including' is a standard
>>>>>> thing that servlets do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> out.print( "<P>here's another 400 paragraphs of HTML</P>" );
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that's how bod works though!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not how bod templates work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think I'm getting anywhere now although it's been an
>>>>>>> interesting ride getting there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just trying to help! I'm not going to say go ahead with your plugin
>>>>>> tag (which I don't personally object to) because I'm not going to
>>>>>> be affected by the consequences - that's down to the other
>>>>>> developers to comment.  I'm just suggesting a method they can't
>>>>>> easily object to because it doesn't involve more that a line or two
>>>>>> of changes to the Bodington source code - to make the
>>>>>> ServletContext available to the template so you can call
>>>>>> getNamedDispatcher( "myModules" ).include( request, response ).  I
>>>>>> don't think that's a bodge or a workaround - it's basically the
>>>>>> same as what you're proposing but compliant with the servlet spec -
>>>>>> i.e. you could use it perfectly well outside of Bodington.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>>> language
>>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the
>>>>>> live webcast
>>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>>> territory!
>>>>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?
>>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>>>>> language
>>>>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>>>>> webcast
>>>>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
>>>>> territory!
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>>>>> cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Bodington-developers mailing list
>>>>> Bod...@li...
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------
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>>> language
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>>> webcast
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
> 
> 


-- 
____________________________________
Colin Tatham
VLE Team
Oxford University Computing Services

http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/vle/
http://bodington.org