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From: Jon M. <jo...@te...> - 2006-05-11 12:23:38
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Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > there are currently trials of pubs and clubs using thumbprint > biometrics to curb violent drunks... if you don't have your thumb > scanned then you can't go in the pub / club... :) A depressing symptom of the surveillance society. Here's the problem: if you want your customers to stay on the premises as long as possible and spend as much money as possible then you have to deal with them up to the point where they are senseless and incapable of spending any more money. The difficulty is that people behave badly before the point when they are drunk enough to fall over unconscious and that might inhibit the sober potential customers from entering the premises. The answer is to subject the customers to intense surveillance and use highly visible security staff. The, as yet, sober customer can be persuaded that these measures are there to make them safe. They may be unaware that the greatest danger that they are subjected to is the liver damage that comes from excessive alcohol consumption. (Personally I'd rather get a broken nose from a violent drunk than cirrhosis of the liver.) The authorities are prepared to tolerate bars who encourage antisocial drinking so long as the management clamp down on the short term consequences (hence the use of biometrics). I would suggest that a better solution is to take away the bar's license if they are found selling alcohol to people who are excessively drunk or aggressive. Similarly the use of biometric 'signatures' on reports of educational outcomes etc. may be a technological sticking plaster for a problem that needs a more humane analysis. What is the perceived lack of trust that leads people to believe that this technology is required? Who is cheating or who is being negligent? Who is mistrustful? Are students fabricating reports on their educational activities? Are cleverer friends of students doing their industrial placements for them? Are students writing their own reports on themselves in place of the mentor's report? Wouldn't a little bit of communication between tutors, mentors, supervisors etc. prevent this? Any reputable college knows how to invigilate traditional examinations and keep secure records of the results - couldn't they be persuaded to use procedures of a similar standard to verify the authenticity of qualitative information about the student too? Give the examinations office a digital certificate and let them use it to sign a plain text file which the student can take away and email to whoever they like. If the file has the name, gender and age of the student what more do you need? Perhaps a simple passport style picture could be included but even without that you already have better security than the printed degree certificate which is tried and trusted over centuries. To be honest the best security is a good interview when the student applies for a job. It's fairly easy to find out if the student actually learned anything from the activities they claim to have taken part in with a few well aimed questions. Sorry to be so negative but you've hit a raw nerve. As you can tell, I am vehemently opposed to surveillance of people who are not criminals and who are not suspected of being criminals. The use of biometric information (whether encoded electronically or not) is strongly associated with repressive regimes and the acceptance of it by the majority (who have no need to fear it) is in my opinion a form of collaboration with whichever future regime chooses to use it to oppress a minority. For example mass fingerprinting and official racial classification in South Africa would not have occurred if it had been resisted by the white population who were not themselves threatened by it. Jon |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 17:25:16
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perhaps hand writing recognition would be your preferred option. there are currently trials of pubs and clubs using thumbprint biometrics to curb violent drunks... if you don't have your thumb scanned then you can't go in the pub / club... :) Jon Maber wrote: > Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> The proposal would.. perhaps, be for a group of us to research and >> develop a pilot for convenient, secure and reassuring methods for >> students to move between organisations in the context of lifelong >> learning. > > If I were a student I wouldn't be reassured by having potential > employers etc. scanning my eyeball. I'd be alarmed, angered and would > probably walk out of the interview. > > I can imagine that the majority of students would not share my > reaction and would actually be reassured and comforted but that > wouldn't make me and the rest of the minority feel any better about it. > > Jon > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: Jon M. <jo...@te...> - 2006-05-10 15:31:50
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Matthew Buckett wrote: > If ResourceTree.addResource() it is left up to the caller to fix > things up (call ResourceTree.remove() and rollback the transaction). > However ResourceTree.moveResource() does the cleanup itself. Is there > a reason for the difference? > Uhmmm........ Hard to remember that far back but I suspect that there isn't a good reason for the difference. Jon |
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From: Alexis O'C. <ale...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 15:25:14
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Matthew Buckett wrote: > Matthew Buckett wrote: >> If ResourceTree.addResource() it is left up to the caller to fix things > > If ResourceTree.addResource() fails it.. > A nice little "surprise" for the unwary I guess ;-). I imagine there probably isn't a "good" reason. In fact if moveResource()had been factored to use addResource() itself when adding the resource to it's new location, then this discrepancy would've already showed up. Alexis |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 14:54:24
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Matthew Buckett wrote: > If ResourceTree.addResource() it is left up to the caller to fix things If ResourceTree.addResource() fails it.. -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 14:52:26
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If ResourceTree.addResource() it is left up to the caller to fix things up (call ResourceTree.remove() and rollback the transaction). However ResourceTree.moveResource() does the cleanup itself. Is there a reason for the difference? -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 13:47:20
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I will ask the projects we work with if their is a leader amongst them... they are more academic / less r n d. but you never know... Andrew Booth wrote: >Happy to join in, but don't think we could lead. > >Aggie > >-----Original Message----- >From: bod...@li... >[mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of >Selwyn Lloyd >Sent: 10 May 2006 10:48 >To: bod...@li... >Subject: [Bodington-developers] call for partners and leaders in a >portability and biometrics project > >friends, bodders and earthlings, > >we need a leader and partners for a bid to fund a pilot project... > >to develop systems and usecases suitable for coupling >portable lifelong learning artifacts with biometric security > >we can't lead bids hence our willing and openness to team up, >but we can be an active resource / partner and we do have a reasonable >record in the LL area > >since this is a somewhat disruptive technology i'm hoping the bod-dev >list is a good place to look for colaborators > >cheers > >sel > > >------------------------------------------------------- >Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? >Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job >easier >Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo >http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >_______________________________________________ >Bodington-developers mailing list >Bod...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > >------------------------------------------------------- >Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? >Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier >Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo >http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >_______________________________________________ >Bodington-developers mailing list >Bod...@li... >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > |
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From: Jon M. <jo...@te...> - 2006-05-10 12:54:18
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Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > The proposal would.. perhaps, be for a group of us to research and > develop a pilot for convenient, secure and reassuring methods for > students to move between organisations in the context of lifelong > learning. If I were a student I wouldn't be reassured by having potential employers etc. scanning my eyeball. I'd be alarmed, angered and would probably walk out of the interview. I can imagine that the majority of students would not share my reaction and would actually be reassured and comforted but that wouldn't make me and the rest of the minority feel any better about it. Jon |
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From: Andrew B. <a.g...@le...> - 2006-05-10 11:39:44
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Speaking as a molecular biologist working in a Faculty of Biological Sciences, I'd agree that DNA might be a bit slow, but your sequencers are obviously slow. However, we have a group here doing interesting work with biosensors, which could be relevant. I'll have a chat with them. Aggie -----Original Message----- From: bod...@li... [mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of Selwyn Lloyd Sent: 10 May 2006 11:50 To: bod...@li... Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] call for partners and leaders in a portability and biometrics project Hi Alistair, No paper as such, but thats the thing here we are looking to colab and cooperate on this first. So to coin a phrase we might call it openPBS Primarily driven from disatisfaction with ims eportfolio and the endless debate regards unique id... The proposal would.. perhaps, be for a group of us to research and develop a pilot for convenient, secure and reassuring methods for students to move between organisations in the context of lifelong learning. Asserting with biometrics perhaps... - we could aim to reduce identity theft - improve data control etc Furthermore biometric identity provides us a variety of potential interoperability... more assertion... - Once registered somewhere, things speed up for the biometric user - systems can tag electronic artifcacts with biometric data - Ed I's may even issue real world objects such as a student card, passport or even a paper certifcate with embedded biometric identity biometrics aren't always that expensive, thumbprint, retinal, handwriting recognition... Personally I would be advocating simplest and cheapest first... which provides the users [admin and users] most convenience But collectively is the real point of bringing this out in the open, its not just about some folks from Phos-dev So we would like to colaborate on a draft... Any others up for this first step? Any potential lead institution out there? Sel on one occasion i did challenge for dna but that would be expensive and it may take a week or so to login :) Alistair Young wrote: > now that sounds quite interesting Sel. Any draft info floating > around? Turning binary eye-scan data into attributes to get you > access to things. hmmmm..... > > Alistair > > On 10 May 2006, at 10:48, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> friends, bodders and earthlings, >> >> we need a leader and partners for a bid to fund a pilot project... >> >> to develop systems and usecases suitable for coupling >> portable lifelong learning artifacts with biometric security >> >> we can't lead bids hence our willing and openness to team up, >> but we can be an active resource / partner and we do have a >> reasonable record in the LL area >> >> since this is a somewhat disruptive technology i'm hoping the bod- >> dev list is a good place to look for colaborators >> >> cheers >> >> sel >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > ------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Bodington-developers mailing list Bod...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Andrew B. <a.g...@le...> - 2006-05-10 11:33:03
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Happy to join in, but don't think we could lead. Aggie -----Original Message----- From: bod...@li... [mailto:bod...@li...] On Behalf Of Selwyn Lloyd Sent: 10 May 2006 10:48 To: bod...@li... Subject: [Bodington-developers] call for partners and leaders in a portability and biometrics project friends, bodders and earthlings, we need a leader and partners for a bid to fund a pilot project... to develop systems and usecases suitable for coupling portable lifelong learning artifacts with biometric security we can't lead bids hence our willing and openness to team up, but we can be an active resource / partner and we do have a reasonable record in the LL area since this is a somewhat disruptive technology i'm hoping the bod-dev list is a good place to look for colaborators cheers sel ------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Bodington-developers mailing list Bod...@li... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Adam M. <ada...@co...> - 2006-05-10 11:25:17
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I have asked around OUCS about this. I'll let you know if there's any takers or good leads. It's not really on our roadmap as such. adam | -----Original Message----- | From: bod...@li... [mailto:bodington- | dev...@li...] On Behalf Of Selwyn Lloyd | Sent: 10 May 2006 11:50 | To: bod...@li... | Subject: Re: [Bodington-developers] call for partners and leaders in a | portability and biometrics project | | Hi Alistair, | | No paper as such, but thats the thing here we are looking to colab and | cooperate on this first. | | So to coin a phrase we might call it openPBS | | Primarily driven from disatisfaction with ims eportfolio and the endless | debate regards unique id... | | The proposal would.. perhaps, be for a group of us to research and | develop a pilot for convenient, secure and reassuring methods for | students to move between organisations in the context of lifelong | learning. | | Asserting with biometrics perhaps... | - we could aim to reduce identity theft | - improve data control etc | | Furthermore biometric identity provides us a variety of potential | interoperability... | more assertion... | - Once registered somewhere, things speed up for the biometric user | - systems can tag electronic artifcacts with biometric data | - Ed I's may even issue real world objects such as a student card, | passport or even a paper certifcate with embedded biometric identity | | biometrics aren't always that expensive, thumbprint, retinal, | handwriting recognition... | | Personally I would be advocating simplest and cheapest first... which | provides the users [admin and users] most convenience | But collectively is the real point of bringing this out in the open, its | not just about some folks from Phos-dev | | So we would like to colaborate on a draft... | | Any others up for this first step? Any potential lead institution out | there? | | Sel | | | | on one occasion i did challenge for dna but that would be expensive and | it may take a week or so to login :) | | | Alistair Young wrote: | | > now that sounds quite interesting Sel. Any draft info floating | > around? Turning binary eye-scan data into attributes to get you | > access to things. hmmmm..... | > | > Alistair | > | > On 10 May 2006, at 10:48, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: | > | >> friends, bodders and earthlings, | >> | >> we need a leader and partners for a bid to fund a pilot project... | >> | >> to develop systems and usecases suitable for coupling | >> portable lifelong learning artifacts with biometric security | >> | >> we can't lead bids hence our willing and openness to team up, | >> but we can be an active resource / partner and we do have a | >> reasonable record in the LL area | >> | >> since this is a somewhat disruptive technology i'm hoping the bod- | >> dev list is a good place to look for colaborators | >> | >> cheers | >> | >> sel | >> | >> | >> ------------------------------------------------------- | >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, | >> security? | >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your | >> job easier | >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache | >> Geronimo | >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? | >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | >> _______________________________________________ | >> Bodington-developers mailing list | >> Bod...@li... | >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers | > | > | > | > | > ------------------------------------------------------- | > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, | security? | > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job | > easier | > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache | > Geronimo | > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | > _______________________________________________ | > Bodington-developers mailing list | > Bod...@li... | > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers | > | > | | | | ------------------------------------------------------- | Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? | Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job | easier | Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo | http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 | _______________________________________________ | Bodington-developers mailing list | Bod...@li... | https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 10:49:37
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Hi Alistair, No paper as such, but thats the thing here we are looking to colab and cooperate on this first. So to coin a phrase we might call it openPBS Primarily driven from disatisfaction with ims eportfolio and the endless debate regards unique id... The proposal would.. perhaps, be for a group of us to research and develop a pilot for convenient, secure and reassuring methods for students to move between organisations in the context of lifelong learning. Asserting with biometrics perhaps... - we could aim to reduce identity theft - improve data control etc Furthermore biometric identity provides us a variety of potential interoperability... more assertion... - Once registered somewhere, things speed up for the biometric user - systems can tag electronic artifcacts with biometric data - Ed I's may even issue real world objects such as a student card, passport or even a paper certifcate with embedded biometric identity biometrics aren't always that expensive, thumbprint, retinal, handwriting recognition... Personally I would be advocating simplest and cheapest first... which provides the users [admin and users] most convenience But collectively is the real point of bringing this out in the open, its not just about some folks from Phos-dev So we would like to colaborate on a draft... Any others up for this first step? Any potential lead institution out there? Sel on one occasion i did challenge for dna but that would be expensive and it may take a week or so to login :) Alistair Young wrote: > now that sounds quite interesting Sel. Any draft info floating > around? Turning binary eye-scan data into attributes to get you > access to things. hmmmm..... > > Alistair > > On 10 May 2006, at 10:48, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> friends, bodders and earthlings, >> >> we need a leader and partners for a bid to fund a pilot project... >> >> to develop systems and usecases suitable for coupling >> portable lifelong learning artifacts with biometric security >> >> we can't lead bids hence our willing and openness to team up, >> but we can be an active resource / partner and we do have a >> reasonable record in the LL area >> >> since this is a somewhat disruptive technology i'm hoping the bod- >> dev list is a good place to look for colaborators >> >> cheers >> >> sel >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: Alistair Y. <ali...@sm...> - 2006-05-10 09:58:43
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now that sounds quite interesting Sel. Any draft info floating around? Turning binary eye-scan data into attributes to get you access to things. hmmmm..... Alistair On 10 May 2006, at 10:48, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > friends, bodders and earthlings, > > we need a leader and partners for a bid to fund a pilot project... > > to develop systems and usecases suitable for coupling > portable lifelong learning artifacts with biometric security > > we can't lead bids hence our willing and openness to team up, > but we can be an active resource / partner and we do have a > reasonable record in the LL area > > since this is a somewhat disruptive technology i'm hoping the bod- > dev list is a good place to look for colaborators > > cheers > > sel > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 09:48:15
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friends, bodders and earthlings, we need a leader and partners for a bid to fund a pilot project... to develop systems and usecases suitable for coupling portable lifelong learning artifacts with biometric security we can't lead bids hence our willing and openness to team up, but we can be an active resource / partner and we do have a reasonable record in the LL area since this is a somewhat disruptive technology i'm hoping the bod-dev list is a good place to look for colaborators cheers sel |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 09:47:02
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Matthew Buckett wrote: > Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project who >> put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them usecase >> was thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... >> >> the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on this.... >> letting the student know their quota expires.... >> >> get / set quota expiry > > > Presumably the quota expiry time is tied to the time when a user > leaves the institution? Eg: > > User leaves - day 0 > Access card gets stopped - day 0 > Email gets stopped + 1 month > Users website removed + 1 month > Email gets deleted + 3 months > Backups get deleted + 6months in the varied *system *architectures we are adapting to, there are usecases for portable data and or a holding repository for a lifelong learners 'stuff'... in SHELL we [shell team] developed the suzy story of a Lifelong Learner who goes from school 2 college 2 HE and back 2 college... different locals etc.... a regional learner record was developed to collect data such as registrations and results.... in the last year with LMX, EELLS, PDP4Life and now the iceBox we [collective] added pdp, eportfolio, cv, blog, file repository... there are no clear views on content quota or expiry of the various tool based service[s] hence *varied* system architectures [bear in mind all these projects link multiple institutions each ED I with its own business processes] now we are faced with either regional repository pilots, portable personal repositories or hybrids [perhaps still with a disaster recovery service] i have put out a call in a different email... for the biometric portable lifelong piece... in practical terms with or without biometric credentials a pack up your bodington stuff would be interesting to us as we would be.. a) looking for ways to allow a lifelong learner to continue to use their artifacts and data b) looking for ways to provide data for input into bodington systems... c) doing similar loading and unloading work with other projects in the next month or two... > > Isn't removing the quota for a PDP/VLE system part of this process and > should be tied to the leaving date? While I can see that it would be > helpful to tell a user when their quota will expire I don't really see > it as data that the system should look after as it is tied to the > process of leaving. > > For implementation reasons it may be useful to store this though. > even in the portable personal repository scenario you would want either an independent disaster recovery service or to be able to go back to your original service provider... >> in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider >> its the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed >> Ins... such as support contract expired, file recovery service >> expired etc... perhaps a business op for HEi's?? > > > I think universities miss an opportunity of giving all graduates a > email address (forwarding only), now good email services are a > everywhere but 5 years ago it might have worked and could have been > good advertising for the university and maybe a reminder to donate > back to the university? > yahoo accounts seem to go through a period of redundancy, then content deletion and then limbo. an interesting model where you can always keep your email identity i've done this a few times over the years :) |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 09:07:47
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I guess it depends on how - important you are - often you are looking for work - looking to impress others with your etchings Sean Mehan wrote: > yeah, i can dig that, selwyn. There is a whole, ugly world out there > of e-portfolios and what/how long do we let them keep their crap on > our boxes? I keep hearing about alumni services, but i don't think > that they have costed it, because if it costs, i don't think people > will pay it. > > s > > > On 10 May 2006, at 09:16, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > >> I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project >> who put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them >> usecase was thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... >> >> the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on this.... >> letting the student know their quota expires.... >> >> get / set quota expiry >> >> -------------------------- >> >> in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider >> its the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed >> Ins... such as support contract expired, file recovery service >> expired etc... perhaps a business op for HEi's?? >> >> >> Sean Mehan wrote: >> >>> I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is >>> cheap. Backup might not be, but perhaps with the >>> MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere idea of allowing people to have >>> space on their box, it might be better to invest time in >>> separating the individual user file space from more traditional >>> rooms? >>> >>> We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social needs, >>> and I suspect that that will fill up far faster than the more >>> stuffy vle, because people will want to fill it up with >>> interesting stuff, not their course work. >>> >>> BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, >>> e.g., people would be able to find in elgg all the people on their >>> bod course, in case that is of interest to any others out there. >>> >>> Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems >>> interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, >>> more compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside >>> of bod, i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) >>> >>> Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the >>> first of uncle adam's agony chats? >>> >>> s >>> >>> >>> On 10 May 2006, at 08:32, Matthew Buckett wrote: >>> >>>> Selwyn Lloyd wrote: >>>> >>>>> Matthew: >>>>> have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special >>>>> groups a user might create... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an >>>> email address so we create all our accounts through a user import >>>> feed. >>>> >>>>> assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being >>>>> intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them >>>> a specific part of the group namespace. >>>> >>>>> i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more >>>>> space [multiple user identities] >>>>> not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of >>>>> identity creation and identity locking >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a >>>> problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups >>>> and management. >>>> >>>>> with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, >>>>> learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at >>>>> various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning >>>>> scenarios... >>>>> so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set >>>>> 20mb per user until told otherwise] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has >>>> where you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as >>>> this doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. >>>> >>>>> Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given >>>>> a deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is >>>>> room for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] >>>>> Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use >>>>> cases in bodington... >>>>> "get / set quota expiry date" >>>>> our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have >>>>> 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a >>>>> quota, and the user managing their individual quota... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? >>>> >>>>> are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total >>>>> across multiple resources against a single user? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All >>>> quotas will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who >>>> manages the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill >>>> the quota. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer >>>> -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services >>>> -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >>>> security? >>>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make >>>> your job easier >>>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >>>> Geronimo >>>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >>>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Bodington-developers mailing list >>>> Bod...@li... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >>> security? >>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >>> job easier >>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >>> Geronimo >>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bodington-developers mailing list >>> Bod...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 09:06:51
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Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project who > put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them usecase was > thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... > > the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on this.... > letting the student know their quota expires.... > > get / set quota expiry Presumably the quota expiry time is tied to the time when a user leaves the institution? Eg: User leaves - day 0 Access card gets stopped - day 0 Email gets stopped + 1 month Users website removed + 1 month Email gets deleted + 3 months Backups get deleted + 6months Isn't removing the quota for a PDP/VLE system part of this process and should be tied to the leaving date? While I can see that it would be helpful to tell a user when their quota will expire I don't really see it as data that the system should look after as it is tied to the process of leaving. For implementation reasons it may be useful to store this though. > in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider its > the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed Ins... such > as support contract expired, file recovery service expired etc... > perhaps a business op for HEi's?? I think universities miss an opportunity of giving all graduates a email address (forwarding only), now good email services are a everywhere but 5 years ago it might have worked and could have been good advertising for the university and maybe a reminder to donate back to the university? -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Sean M. <se...@sm...> - 2006-05-10 08:55:18
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yeah, i can dig that, selwyn. There is a whole, ugly world out there of e-portfolios and what/how long do we let them keep their crap on our boxes? I keep hearing about alumni services, but i don't think that they have costed it, because if it costs, i don't think people will pay it. s On 10 May 2006, at 09:16, Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project > who put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them > usecase was thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... > > the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on > this.... letting the student know their quota expires.... > > get / set quota expiry > > -------------------------- > > in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider > its the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed > Ins... such as support contract expired, file recovery service > expired etc... perhaps a business op for HEi's?? > > > Sean Mehan wrote: > >> I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is >> cheap. Backup might not be, but perhaps with the >> MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere idea of allowing people to have >> space on their box, it might be better to invest time in >> separating the individual user file space from more traditional >> rooms? >> >> We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social >> needs, and I suspect that that will fill up far faster than the >> more stuffy vle, because people will want to fill it up with >> interesting stuff, not their course work. >> >> BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, >> e.g., people would be able to find in elgg all the people on >> their bod course, in case that is of interest to any others out >> there. >> >> Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems >> interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, >> more compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside >> of bod, i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) >> >> Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the >> first of uncle adam's agony chats? >> >> s >> >> >> On 10 May 2006, at 08:32, Matthew Buckett wrote: >> >>> Selwyn Lloyd wrote: >>> >>>> Matthew: >>>> have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or >>>> special groups a user might create... >>> >>> >>> At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an >>> email address so we create all our accounts through a user >>> import feed. >>> >>>> assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being >>>> intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] >>> >>> >>> The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them >>> a specific part of the group namespace. >>> >>>> i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more >>>> space [multiple user identities] >>>> not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of >>>> identity creation and identity locking >>> >>> >>> With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a >>> problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups >>> and management. >>> >>>> with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, >>>> learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at >>>> various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning >>>> scenarios... >>>> so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set >>>> 20mb per user until told otherwise] >>> >>> >>> I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has >>> where you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as >>> this doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. >>> >>>> Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given >>>> a deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is >>>> room for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] >>>> Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use >>>> cases in bodington... >>>> "get / set quota expiry date" >>>> our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have >>>> 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a >>>> quota, and the user managing their individual quota... >>> >>> >>> 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? >>> >>>> are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a >>>> total across multiple resources against a single user? >>> >>> >>> No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All >>> quotas will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who >>> manages the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill >>> the quota. >>> >>> -- >>> -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer >>> -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing >>> Services >>> -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >>> security? >>> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make >>> your job easier >>> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on >>> Apache Geronimo >>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >>> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Bodington-developers mailing list >>> Bod...@li... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-10 08:17:04
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I also agree that disk pace is cheap, perhaps the unnamed project who put forward the student leaves and must take stuff with them usecase was thinking of the cost of managing users, support etc... the main issue I was putting up for discussion was based on this.... letting the student know their quota expires.... get / set quota expiry -------------------------- in the agreeable world of cheap disk space perhaps you can consider its the other human services which expire when you leave the Ed Ins... such as support contract expired, file recovery service expired etc... perhaps a business op for HEi's?? Sean Mehan wrote: > I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is > cheap. Backup might not be, but perhaps with the > MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere idea of allowing people to have space > on their box, it might be better to invest time in separating the > individual user file space from more traditional rooms? > > We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social needs, > and I suspect that that will fill up far faster than the more stuffy > vle, because people will want to fill it up with interesting stuff, > not their course work. > > BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, e.g., > people would be able to find in elgg all the people on their bod > course, in case that is of interest to any others out there. > > Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems > interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, more > compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside of bod, > i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) > > Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the first > of uncle adam's agony chats? > > s > > > On 10 May 2006, at 08:32, Matthew Buckett wrote: > >> Selwyn Lloyd wrote: >> >>> Matthew: >>> have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special >>> groups a user might create... >> >> >> At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an >> email address so we create all our accounts through a user import feed. >> >>> assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being >>> intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] >> >> >> The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them a >> specific part of the group namespace. >> >>> i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more >>> space [multiple user identities] >>> not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of >>> identity creation and identity locking >> >> >> With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a >> problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups and >> management. >> >>> with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, >>> learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at >>> various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning scenarios... >>> so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set 20mb >>> per user until told otherwise] >> >> >> I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has where >> you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as this >> doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. >> >>> Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given a >>> deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is room >>> for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] >>> Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use >>> cases in bodington... >>> "get / set quota expiry date" >>> our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have >>> 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a quota, >>> and the user managing their individual quota... >> >> >> 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? >> >>> are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total >>> across multiple resources against a single user? >> >> >> No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All quotas >> will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who manages >> the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill the quota. >> >> -- >> -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer >> -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services >> -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, >> security? >> Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your >> job easier >> Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache >> Geronimo >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? >> cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 >> _______________________________________________ >> Bodington-developers mailing list >> Bod...@li... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 08:05:14
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Sean Mehan wrote: > I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is cheap. > Backup might not be, but perhaps with the MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere > idea of allowing people to have space on their box, it might be better > to invest time in separating the individual user file space from more > traditional rooms? I don't think this would be too difficult... I split UploadedFileSession from BuildingSession in my cleanup of uploaded files. The second stage was to change how uploadedfilesession worked for pigeon holes but this never got done. Changing it for home space shouldn't be too difficult, just need to make the changes inherit into tools created inside the home space. > We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social needs, and I > suspect that that will fill up far faster than the more stuffy vle, > because people will want to fill it up with interesting stuff, not their > course work. > > BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, e.g., > people would be able to find in elgg all the people on their bod course, > in case that is of interest to any others out there. > > Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems > interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, more > compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside of bod, > i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) Groups can be called anything. They are only ad-hoc when they are tied only to a resource. You can create sensibly named groups if you don't initially tie them to just one resource. > Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the first of > uncle adam's agony chats? Sure. -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Sean M. <se...@sm...> - 2006-05-10 07:55:52
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I agree about the quota thing from Matthew's perspective. Disk is cheap. Backup might not be, but perhaps with the MyBodWebFolderYourFavNameHere idea of allowing people to have space on their box, it might be better to invest time in separating the individual user file space from more traditional rooms? We are starting up an elgg (elgg.net) for our user's social needs, and I suspect that that will fill up far faster than the more stuffy vle, because people will want to fill it up with interesting stuff, not their course work. BTW, we will be looking at tying that elgg into our groupspace, e.g., people would be able to find in elgg all the people on their bod course, in case that is of interest to any others out there. Also, Matthew, the stuff on partitioning the groupspace seems interesting. We are planning on some work to allow for cleaner, more compliant sub-grouping in bod, that means something outside of bod, i.e., not everything is called ad-hoc!-) Definitely should get heads together on this one. Perhaps the first of uncle adam's agony chats? s On 10 May 2006, at 08:32, Matthew Buckett wrote: > Selwyn Lloyd wrote: >> Matthew: >> have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special >> groups a user might create... > > At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an > email address so we create all our accounts through a user import > feed. > >> assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being >> intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] > > The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them a > specific part of the group namespace. > >> i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more >> space [multiple user identities] >> not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of >> identity creation and identity locking > > With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a > problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups and > management. > >> with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, >> learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at >> various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning >> scenarios... >> so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set >> 20mb per user until told otherwise] > > I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has where > you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as this > doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. > >> Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given a >> deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is room >> for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] >> Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use >> cases in bodington... >> "get / set quota expiry date" >> our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have >> 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a quota, >> and the user managing their individual quota... > > 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? > >> are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total >> across multiple resources against a single user? > > No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All quotas > will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who manages > the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill the quota. > > -- > -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer > -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services > -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your > job easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel? > cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 07:33:16
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Selwyn Lloyd wrote: > Matthew: > > have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special groups > a user might create... At the moment Bodington doesn't support account creation with an email address so we create all our accounts through a user import feed. > assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being intranet > so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] The plan is to allow people to create groups through be give them a specific part of the group namespace. > i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more space > [multiple user identities] > not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of identity > creation and identity locking With disk space being so cheap I don't think it is too much of a problem. What makes storage much more expensive is good backups and management. > with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, > learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at various > theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning scenarios... > so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set 20mb per > user until told otherwise] I much prefer the quota model that a site such as flickr has where you have a quota per month rather than an overall quota as this doesn't penalise the regular users and in fact encourages it. > Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given a > deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is room for the > next batch of students [bear with me :)] > > Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use cases in > bodington... > > "get / set quota expiry date" > > our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have 'quotas'... > they may like the idea of the group managing a quota, and the user > managing their individual quota... 1Tb of RAID 5 array is so cheap now do you need to worry? > are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total across > multiple resources against a single user? No the exact opposite. No quotas will be against users. All quotas will be against parts of the tree and it just depends who manages the files at the part of the tree as to who gets to fill the quota. -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Matthew B. <mat...@ou...> - 2006-05-10 07:23:44
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Jon Maber wrote: > I think that's neat way of doing it. Better than quotas for people > because it means that an individual who contributes to a course area for > example is not using their own personal quota but if that person has a > "my suite of rooms" resource which only they create personal stuff in, > the scheme works just like a personal quota. That's the plan. For Oxford we won't probably introduce quota except for personal areas initially. > It might be nice if people with 'manage' access saw a prominent 'out of > quota' message. Yep, and your getting close to running out of quota (eg <5% left). The problem is where to display this. Ideally you want this to be displayed for every resource. I'd like to have an area for resource metadata (along with access summary, updated/created time, owners) and put it in near the title. But we have run out of space so I think this will have to wait. > Can people really, really delete uploaded files now > (rather than mark them as deleted)? That would be essential to be able > to recover space and get under quota again. No. But for the initially implementation quotas are meant just as an obstacle to uploading huge amounts of data rather than a precise way to place storage capacity. It would be nice/easier to fix this to start with but I'm not sure I'll have time. > Although sysadmins should be allowed to go over quota they ought to be > warned that they have done so because they may make it impossible for > the managers of the resource to upload any files at all. Yep. The problem is there are so many ways to upload a file that displaying a message saying the resource has gone over quota might be difficult. -- -- Matthew Buckett, VLE Developer -- Learning Technologies Group, Oxford University Computing Services -- Tel: +44 (0)1865 283660 http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/ |
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From: Selwyn L. <sel...@ph...> - 2006-05-09 21:01:25
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Matthew: have you guys locked down the amount of user accounts or special groups a user might create... assuming you have single log on or admin created users... being intranet so probably easy... so probably yes [shut up sel] i.e. to stop what i did in the early days of yahoo to get more space [multiple user identities] not so for a lifelong learning portal unless we do some kind of identity creation and identity locking with our ionode based e-portfolio / learner portals [eells, learningmatrix, icebox, pdp4life] we are currently looking at various theoretical quota use cases for lifelong learning scenarios... so this topic is food for thought for us too [currently we set 20mb per user until told otherwise] Once projected scenario is when a student leaves they are given a deadline to move their files / electronic stuff so there is room for the next batch of students [bear with me :)] Keeping this to one consideration with multiple theoretical use cases in bodington... "get / set quota expiry date" our special groups/ communities/ users/ would also have 'quotas'... they may like the idea of the group managing a quota, and the user managing their individual quota... are you suggesting you might quota the files uploaded as a total across multiple resources against a single user? Cheers Sel Jon Maber wrote: > I think that's neat way of doing it. Better than quotas for people > because it means that an individual who contributes to a course area > for example is not using their own personal quota but if that person > has a "my suite of rooms" resource which only they create personal > stuff in, the scheme works just like a personal quota. > It might be nice if people with 'manage' access saw a prominent 'out > of quota' message. Can people really, really delete uploaded files now > (rather than mark them as deleted)? That would be essential to be able > to recover space and get under quota again. > > Although sysadmins should be allowed to go over quota they ought to be > warned that they have done so because they may make it impossible for > the managers of the resource to upload any files at all. > > Jon > > > Matthew Buckett wrote: > >> Request for Comment. >> >> I'm currently looking at implementing basic quotas for Bodington as >> we are hoping to allow everyone in Bodington to be able to create >> their own resources and this needs some management. >> >> It would be difficult to follow the traditional model of file system >> quotas where each file has a principal owner and quotas are placed on >> users. The reason being that Bodington doesn't have an idea of one >> owner and implementing this isn't trivial or maybe right. >> >> The route I am probably going to take is allowing for a quota to be >> placed on a resource and it applies to all child resources unless a >> child has its own quota defined. >> >> I am going to initially only allow quotas to be set on a resource at >> creation time although later on quotas should be able to be applied >> after creation. >> >> Quotas will be able to be adjusted after they have been initially set. >> >> Sysadmin will be exempt from quotas. >> >> Quotas will apply to resources (eg you can create a total of 20 >> resource) and uploaded files (eg you can only upload 5MB of files). >> >> No hard/soft quotas in version 1 they may come at a later date. >> >> To see the quotas you need manage permission. If you have create >> permission you can see the resource quota. If you have upload >> permission you can see the uploaded file quota. >> >> Exceeding quota will throw a BuildingServerException subclass. Nice >> error handling will be done at most places. >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Bodington-developers mailing list > Bod...@li... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bodington-developers > > |
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From: Jon M. <jo...@te...> - 2006-05-09 20:21:27
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I think that's neat way of doing it. Better than quotas for people because it means that an individual who contributes to a course area for example is not using their own personal quota but if that person has a "my suite of rooms" resource which only they create personal stuff in, the scheme works just like a personal quota. It might be nice if people with 'manage' access saw a prominent 'out of quota' message. Can people really, really delete uploaded files now (rather than mark them as deleted)? That would be essential to be able to recover space and get under quota again. Although sysadmins should be allowed to go over quota they ought to be warned that they have done so because they may make it impossible for the managers of the resource to upload any files at all. Jon Matthew Buckett wrote: > Request for Comment. > > I'm currently looking at implementing basic quotas for Bodington as we > are hoping to allow everyone in Bodington to be able to create their > own resources and this needs some management. > > It would be difficult to follow the traditional model of file system > quotas where each file has a principal owner and quotas are placed on > users. The reason being that Bodington doesn't have an idea of one > owner and implementing this isn't trivial or maybe right. > > The route I am probably going to take is allowing for a quota to be > placed on a resource and it applies to all child resources unless a > child has its own quota defined. > > I am going to initially only allow quotas to be set on a resource at > creation time although later on quotas should be able to be applied > after creation. > > Quotas will be able to be adjusted after they have been initially set. > > Sysadmin will be exempt from quotas. > > Quotas will apply to resources (eg you can create a total of 20 > resource) and uploaded files (eg you can only upload 5MB of files). > > No hard/soft quotas in version 1 they may come at a later date. > > To see the quotas you need manage permission. If you have create > permission you can see the resource quota. If you have upload > permission you can see the uploaded file quota. > > Exceeding quota will throw a BuildingServerException subclass. Nice > error handling will be done at most places. > |
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