Re: [Audacity-quality] Time track copy-paste and aup3 import

[Paul L. <pau...@gm...>]

I have done it at commit eb888bb03b0a557aab0b9ae7ac07ae61eee720ba

Time to review and test, then:  Time tracks never cut or copy; import of
.aup3 with TimeTrack works; and if TimeTrack was already present, it is
(quietly) replaced, not pasted into, by the import.

PRL


On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 2:23 PM James Crook <jam...@gm...> wrote:

> Paul can you apply your update, with the small fix for those envelope
> points?
> I'd like this to be in in time for string freeze, so that it goes through
> to release.
>
> --James.
>
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 at 19:49, Steve Fiddle <ste...@gm...>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 at 17:47, Paul Licameli <pau...@gm...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 12:31 PM Peter Sampson <
>>> pet...@gm...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:25 PM Robert Hänggi <aar...@gm...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Just to inform you about the Reaper behaviour:
>>>>> It asks you on import if the tempo should be imported as well. This
>>>>> applies mainly to MIDI tracks.
>>>>> However, it is the nearest to time tracks (apart from the master play
>>>>> rate envelope which is treated like all other envelopes like volume,
>>>>> pan, width, pitch).
>>>>> In essence, if you want that the user can decide, ask him directly and
>>>>> don't presume that he knows that he has first to exclude the other
>>>>> time track from the project to be imported in order to keep the new
>>>>> one.
>>>>> Common sense and more user friendly imho.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I like Robert;s thinking here - asking the user, in the situation where
>>>> they have a Time Track
>>>> on both projects, which one they want to keep sounds eminently sensible
>>>> ad as Robert
>>>> says user-friendly (also more "discoverable" - removing the chance of
>>>> nasty surprises
>>>> when the wrong one gets used).
>>>>
>>>> Peter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'd say no for right now and I think RM agrees.
>>>
>>
>> I agree. I think it's a good idea, but we should be close to string
>> freeze and I don't think this is urgent.
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Remember this is incidental to the more important white-box review of
>>> Unitary.
>>>
>>> PRL
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>> On 30/01/2021, Peter Sampson <pet...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>> > Looking at this page:
>>>>> > https://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Time_Tracks
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I see nothing there about the ability (or expectation) to Cut&Paste
>>>>> the
>>>>> > Time Track or sections of it.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So the ability to do so is either a cunning and tricksy Easter Egg -
>>>>> or
>>>>> > it's a bug, I'm thinking.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > And note that this is different from the ability to import a Time
>>>>> Track as
>>>>> > part of an imported project
>>>>> > which is to be allowed.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Peter.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Peter.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:56 PM Peter Sampson <
>>>>> > pet...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> BTW although one can edit the Time Track with Cut&Paste, albeit only
>>>>> >> through associated audio
>>>>> >> we do have an inconsistency as the Time Track does nor
>>>>> expand/contract
>>>>> >> when the associated
>>>>> >> audio is modified with the Change Speed effect.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Peter.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:54 PM Peter Sampson <
>>>>> >> pet...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:47 PM Steve Fiddle <
>>>>> ste...@gm...>
>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 at 16:32, Peter Sampson <
>>>>> >>>> pet...@gm...> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 4:21 PM Steve Fiddle
>>>>> >>>>> <ste...@gm...>
>>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Copy and Paste for time  tracks sounds to me like a major can of
>>>>> >>>>>> worms. Also, we have recorded precisely zero requests for this
>>>>> >>>>>> feature.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> I am strongly of the opinion that we should not implement copy /
>>>>> >>>>>> paste
>>>>> >>>>>> for time tracks until we have a much better implementation of
>>>>> time
>>>>> >>>>>> tracks.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> It's not a question of whether we implement or not - you can
>>>>> already
>>>>> >>>>> do
>>>>> >>>>> it  - but you need to select in the audio
>>>>> >>>>> I only tried this with a single audio track and a time track.
>>>>> I've no
>>>>> >>>>> idea how it works
>>>>> >>>>> a) in a multi-track project - with all or just some tracks with
>>>>> >>>>> selected audio
>>>>> >>>>> b) when some tracks are above and some below the Time track
>>>>> >>>>> c) what the interaction is with Sync-Lock (or other settings)
>>>>> >>>>> d) other use cases I haven't thought of yet.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Regarding  importing a project, I think that if both the current
>>>>> >>>>>> project and the imported project have time tracks, the imported
>>>>> time
>>>>> >>>>>> track
>>>>> >>>>>> should replace  the current time track. (If the user prefers to
>>>>> retain
>>>>> >>>>>> the
>>>>> >>>>>> current time track, then they need to remove the time track
>>>>> from the
>>>>> >>>>>> project  that they intend to import.)
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> I think it should be the other way around.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> If it is the other way round, then either it is impossible to
>>>>> import a
>>>>> >>>> time track, or we have some cases where a time track can be
>>>>> imported
>>>>> >>>> and
>>>>> >>>> some cases where it cannot.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> On the other hand, if an imported time track overwrites the
>>>>> current
>>>>> >>>> time
>>>>> >>>> track (if present), then the user has control to either import a
>>>>> time
>>>>> >>>> track
>>>>> >>>> or not. I'm in favour of allowing the user to make this decision
>>>>> rather
>>>>> >>>> than prohibiting the import of time tracks or introducing "special
>>>>> >>>> case"
>>>>> >>>> inconsistencies.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Good point,  I concede, I think you're right about this.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Peter.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>> Steve
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> If you are importing into a project that already has aTime Track
>>>>> then
>>>>> >>>>> I
>>>>> >>>>> think that Time Track should be retained.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> If the user wants the imported Time Track to be used then they
>>>>> should
>>>>> >>>>> first delete the Time Track in the primary project.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> [image: image.png]
>>>>> >>>>> Peter.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Steve
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 at 15:52, Paul Licameli <
>>>>> pau...@gm...>
>>>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> James, please review these details.  Peter, maybe generate
>>>>> some bug
>>>>> >>>>>>> issues.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> How does copy and paste of time track work, and how should it?
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Short answer:  you can copy and paste time track points, even
>>>>> into a
>>>>> >>>>>>> project with an existing time track, though not all the
>>>>> behavior is
>>>>> >>>>>>> intuitive.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Question:  If you import an .aup3 project with a time track,
>>>>> should
>>>>> >>>>>>> that do the same as paste (pasting at time 0 and shifting other
>>>>> >>>>>>> control
>>>>> >>>>>>> points right), or should it replace the old time track with a
>>>>> new one
>>>>> >>>>>>> (but
>>>>> >>>>>>> maybe losing some of your data)?  James argues for the second
>>>>> >>>>>>> solution, I'm
>>>>> >>>>>>> not sure I agree.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> We need agreement on that to commit simplified code for aup3
>>>>> import,
>>>>> >>>>>>> reducing the amount of sqlite3 calls we need to maintain.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Details.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>    1. Make new project with a time track and some control
>>>>> points,
>>>>> >>>>>>>    and some generated sound
>>>>> >>>>>>>    2. Select all Ctrl + A
>>>>> >>>>>>>    3. Select time track and deselect wave track with Ctrl +
>>>>> click
>>>>> >>>>>>>    4. Try to copy - dialog box tells you to select some audio
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> That has been so at least since 2.3.1:  You can't copy if only
>>>>> time
>>>>> >>>>>>> track is selected.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> But, if time track is selected and another track -- then is it
>>>>> >>>>>>> copied
>>>>> >>>>>>> to clipboard?  Since at least 2.3.1, yes, because then pasting
>>>>> into
>>>>> >>>>>>> another
>>>>> >>>>>>> project makes a time track.  So a time track IS copyable.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> But in 2.3.1, the time track points were lost.  2.3.2 changed
>>>>> that.
>>>>> >>>>>>> Time track points may be inserted into a time track that
>>>>> already
>>>>> >>>>>>> exists and
>>>>> >>>>>>> has other points.  There may be discontinuities at the edges
>>>>> of the
>>>>> >>>>>>> paste,
>>>>> >>>>>>> arguably correct or not.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> I also notice that if you have cut time & wave tracks, then
>>>>> paste
>>>>> >>>>>>> into a new project with only a time track -- then, whether the
>>>>> wave
>>>>> >>>>>>> track
>>>>> >>>>>>> pastes or not, depends whether the time track is selected or
>>>>> not.  If
>>>>> >>>>>>> it
>>>>> >>>>>>> was, I only paste time track.  Undo, click background, paste
>>>>> -- then
>>>>> >>>>>>> both
>>>>> >>>>>>> paste.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
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