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Audacity
A free multi-track audio editor and recorder
audacity-quality — Quality Assurance: priorities for overall usability, interface choices, & bugs
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From: Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@gm...> - 2017-07-27 13:05:34
|
But this still leaves open the question of what we recommend for 2.2.0 MIDI playback for Mac (and Linux) in order to make MIDI playback produce sound. So I'm thinking that I will make a bland entry(ies) in the Manual with links to a couple pf Wiki pages - that way we remain open to changing our minds without locking any particular suggestion in the Manual. And right now for Mac I think the suggestion may well remain SimpleSynth unless and until we find something better. Any objections to this plan? Peter. On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:00 PM, Peter Sampson < petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Vaughan Johnson <v.audacity@...> > wrote: > >> >> It's been a long road already , to MIDI, at least 15 years. >> >> Alternatives, as I see: >> >> 1) Fund Roger, and/or students , to get us incrementally further. WITH >> intention to full support. I doubt it will happen in one swell foop. :-)) >> So that needs a plan and milestones. And money -- I'm working w/ my friends >> at MS*S , but our other income seems to be down. >> >> 2) Maintain it partially usable. I don't know how people are using that, >> but I suspect it's not all that helpful. Making changes for Audacity >> compatibility with GB or any other party's s/w is a tarpit, I suspect. As >> Steve said. >> >> 3) Drop it altogether. As Peter said, fundamental decision. >> > > I don't think I said (or meant) "drop it altogether" > > Rather I would suggest what we have now > 1) Import of MIDI files > 2) playback of MIDI files > and add > 3) rendering of Note tracks to audio tracks > 4) no additional MIDI development into full-blown MIDI editor. > > Peter > > > >> >> >> We've had a very partial implementation for a long time. >> >> Thx, >> Vaughan >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Peter Sampson < >> petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Peter Sampson < >>> petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>> >>>> Paul wrote: >>>> >>>> >What does Audacity do that GB doesn't? Synchronize MIDI play with >>>> wave tracks >>>> >stored in Audacity's format, and give you basic cut copy and paste and >>>> the stretch >>>> >tool. Not much. What we have in 2.2.0 is just a bare beginning on >>>> which to build >>>> >new features, and one can easily think of many to keep contributors >>>> occupied, >>>> >but it's not here yet. >>>> >>>> Good points >>>> >>>> For my money the most important thing we should add for MIDI is the >>>> ability to >>>> render a Note track into an audio track. >>>> >>> >>> And we really do have to make a fundamental decision if we want to >>> become a >>> full-blown MIDI editor (And I believe there are already good tools for >>> that) or just >>> a facilitator of MIDI. >>> >>> For my money there would be more important things to do than to work on >>> full >>> MIDI editing. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Peter >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Peter Sampson < >>>> petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> -1 >>>>>>> We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If >>>>>>> other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>> >>>>>> I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with >>>>>> Garage Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other >>>>>> software. And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm broadly in favour of using GB (as all users gave it alreadybut >>>>> >>>>> a) it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut >>>>> >>>>> b) the rendered audio I get is vastly different from that which I get >>>>> with SimpleSynth >>>>> (SimpleSunth on Mac rendering sounds similar to what my PC produces >>>>> with the same file). >>>>> >>>>> c) it doesn't work OOTB (AFAICT) unlike Windows, you have to do some >>>>> configuration tweaking in GB >>>>> >>>>> Peter. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --James. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>>>> Audacity-quality@... >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >>> >> > |
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From: Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@gm...> - 2017-07-27 13:01:28
|
On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Vaughan Johnson <v.audacity@...> wrote: > > It's been a long road already , to MIDI, at least 15 years. > > Alternatives, as I see: > > 1) Fund Roger, and/or students , to get us incrementally further. WITH > intention to full support. I doubt it will happen in one swell foop. :-)) > So that needs a plan and milestones. And money -- I'm working w/ my friends > at MS*S , but our other income seems to be down. > > 2) Maintain it partially usable. I don't know how people are using that, > but I suspect it's not all that helpful. Making changes for Audacity > compatibility with GB or any other party's s/w is a tarpit, I suspect. As > Steve said. > > 3) Drop it altogether. As Peter said, fundamental decision. > I don't think I said (or meant) "drop it altogether" Rather I would suggest what we have now 1) Import of MIDI files 2) playback of MIDI files and add 3) rendering of Note tracks to audio tracks 4) no additional MIDI development into full-blown MIDI editor. Peter > > > We've had a very partial implementation for a long time. > > Thx, > Vaughan > > > > > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Peter Sampson < > petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Peter Sampson < >> petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >> >>> Paul wrote: >>> >>> >What does Audacity do that GB doesn't? Synchronize MIDI play with wave >>> tracks >>> >stored in Audacity's format, and give you basic cut copy and paste and >>> the stretch >>> >tool. Not much. What we have in 2.2.0 is just a bare beginning on >>> which to build >>> >new features, and one can easily think of many to keep contributors >>> occupied, >>> >but it's not here yet. >>> >>> Good points >>> >>> For my money the most important thing we should add for MIDI is the >>> ability to >>> render a Note track into an audio track. >>> >> >> And we really do have to make a fundamental decision if we want to become >> a >> full-blown MIDI editor (And I believe there are already good tools for >> that) or just >> a facilitator of MIDI. >> >> For my money there would be more important things to do than to work on >> full >> MIDI editing. >> >> Peter >> >> >> >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Peter Sampson < >>> petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> -1 >>>>>> We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If >>>>>> other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> >>>>> I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with >>>>> Garage Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other >>>>> software. And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I'm broadly in favour of using GB (as all users gave it alreadybut >>>> >>>> a) it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut >>>> >>>> b) the rendered audio I get is vastly different from that which I get >>>> with SimpleSynth >>>> (SimpleSunth on Mac rendering sounds similar to what my PC produces >>>> with the same file). >>>> >>>> c) it doesn't work OOTB (AFAICT) unlike Windows, you have to do some >>>> configuration tweaking in GB >>>> >>>> Peter. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> --James. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> ------------------ >>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>>> Audacity-quality@... >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Audacity-quality@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> > |
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From: Vaughan Johnson <v.audacity@gm...> - 2017-07-27 08:56:56
|
It's been a long road already , to MIDI, at least 15 years. Alternatives, as I see: 1) Fund Roger, and/or students , to get us incrementally further. WITH intention to full support. I doubt it will happen in one swell foop. :-)) So that needs a plan and milestones. And money -- I'm working w/ my friends at MS*S , but our other income seems to be down. 2) Maintain it partially usable. I don't know how people are using that, but I suspect it's not all that helpful. Making changes for Audacity compatibility with GB or any other party's s/w is a tarpit, I suspect. As Steve said. 3) Drop it altogether. As Peter said, fundamental decision. We've had a very partial implementation for a long time. Thx, Vaughan On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Peter Sampson < petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Peter Sampson < > petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > >> Paul wrote: >> >> >What does Audacity do that GB doesn't? Synchronize MIDI play with wave >> tracks >> >stored in Audacity's format, and give you basic cut copy and paste and >> the stretch >> >tool. Not much. What we have in 2.2.0 is just a bare beginning on >> which to build >> >new features, and one can easily think of many to keep contributors >> occupied, >> >but it's not here yet. >> >> Good points >> >> For my money the most important thing we should add for MIDI is the >> ability to >> render a Note track into an audio track. >> > > And we really do have to make a fundamental decision if we want to become a > full-blown MIDI editor (And I believe there are already good tools for > that) or just > a facilitator of MIDI. > > For my money there would be more important things to do than to work on > full > MIDI editing. > > Peter > > > >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Peter Sampson < >> petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: >>> >>>> On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>>> >>>>> -1 >>>>> We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If >>>>> other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>> I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with >>>> Garage Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other >>>> software. And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. >>>> >>> >>> I'm broadly in favour of using GB (as all users gave it alreadybut >>> >>> a) it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut >>> >>> b) the rendered audio I get is vastly different from that which I get >>> with SimpleSynth >>> (SimpleSunth on Mac rendering sounds similar to what my PC produces with >>> the same file). >>> >>> c) it doesn't work OOTB (AFAICT) unlike Windows, you have to do some >>> configuration tweaking in GB >>> >>> Peter. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> --James. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> ------------------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >>> >>> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > > |
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From: Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@gm...> - 2017-07-26 16:40:24
|
If I recall correctly, the manual for Audacity 2.1.3 was updated and republished as 2.1.3-1 The Audacity website lists a checksum for Audacity 2.1.3 manual, which is different from the checksum on FossHub. I presume that this is because the Audacity website checksum is for the original "2.1.3" manual and the FossHub checksum is for the updated "2.1.3-1" manual. Anyone know if my assumption is correct? If it is, should we just add the 2.1.3-1 chacksum to the Audacity website (retaining the 2.1.3 checksum in case anyone has the original version), or are we confident that there are no copies of the original version in the wild? (in which case we can replace the original checksum with the new one). Steve |
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From: Cliff Scott <flyer185@gm...> - 2017-07-26 12:03:40
|
Ok. After reading the forum posts I can confirm that the problem does exist and should be written up as a bug if not already. Cliff > On Jul 26, 2017, at 6:46 AM, Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: > > On 26 July 2017 at 12:32, Cliff Scott <flyer185@...> wrote: >> It works here. Do you know any special conditions that cause it? > > No, I don't know anything about it other than those forum posts, which > is why I'm trying to find it on bugzilla (assuming that it was > logged). > > Steve > >> >> Cliff >>> On Jul 26, 2017, at 4:59 AM, Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>> >>> This issue has been known about for a while >>> (https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=95800), but I >>> can't find it on bugzilla. Anyone know the bug number? >>> >>> It's come up again here >>> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=96545 but I don't >>> know the current status of this bug. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Audacity-quality@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality |
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From: Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@gm...> - 2017-07-26 11:46:32
|
On 26 July 2017 at 12:32, Cliff Scott <flyer185@...> wrote: > It works here. Do you know any special conditions that cause it? No, I don't know anything about it other than those forum posts, which is why I'm trying to find it on bugzilla (assuming that it was logged). Steve > > Cliff >> On Jul 26, 2017, at 4:59 AM, Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >> >> This issue has been known about for a while >> (https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=95800), but I >> can't find it on bugzilla. Anyone know the bug number? >> >> It's come up again here >> https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=96545 but I don't >> know the current status of this bug. >> >> Steve >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Audacity-quality@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality |
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From: Cliff Scott <flyer185@gm...> - 2017-07-26 11:33:06
|
It works here. Do you know any special conditions that cause it? Cliff > On Jul 26, 2017, at 4:59 AM, Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: > > This issue has been known about for a while > (https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=95800), but I > can't find it on bugzilla. Anyone know the bug number? > > It's come up again here > https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=96545 but I don't > know the current status of this bug. > > Steve > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality |
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From: Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@gm...> - 2017-07-26 10:00:04
|
This issue has been known about for a while (https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=95800), but I can't find it on bugzilla. Anyone know the bug number? It's come up again here https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=96545 but I don't know the current status of this bug. Steve |
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From: Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@gm...> - 2017-07-26 09:09:34
|
On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Peter Sampson < petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > Paul wrote: > > >What does Audacity do that GB doesn't? Synchronize MIDI play with wave > tracks > >stored in Audacity's format, and give you basic cut copy and paste and > the stretch > >tool. Not much. What we have in 2.2.0 is just a bare beginning on which > to build > >new features, and one can easily think of many to keep contributors > occupied, > >but it's not here yet. > > Good points > > For my money the most important thing we should add for MIDI is the > ability to > render a Note track into an audio track. > And we really do have to make a fundamental decision if we want to become a full-blown MIDI editor (And I believe there are already good tools for that) or just a facilitator of MIDI. For my money there would be more important things to do than to work on full MIDI editing. Peter > > Peter > > > > > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Peter Sampson < > petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: >> >>> On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>> >>>> -1 >>>> We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If >>>> other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>> I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with Garage >>> Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other >>> software. And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. >>> >> >> I'm broadly in favour of using GB (as all users gave it alreadybut >> >> a) it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut >> >> b) the rendered audio I get is vastly different from that which I get >> with SimpleSynth >> (SimpleSunth on Mac rendering sounds similar to what my PC produces with >> the same file). >> >> c) it doesn't work OOTB (AFAICT) unlike Windows, you have to do some >> configuration tweaking in GB >> >> Peter. >> >> >> >>> >>> --James. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >> > |
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From: Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@gm...> - 2017-07-26 09:08:39
|
On 26 July 2017 at 09:54, Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > Paul wrote: > >>What does Audacity do that GB doesn't? Synchronize MIDI play with wave >> tracks >>stored in Audacity's format, and give you basic cut copy and paste and the >> stretch >>tool. Not much. What we have in 2.2.0 is just a bare beginning on which >> to build >>new features, and one can easily think of many to keep contributors >> occupied, >>but it's not here yet. > > Good points > > For my money the most important thing we should add for MIDI is the ability > to > render a Note track into an audio track. > > Peter > > > > > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Peter Sampson > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: >>> >>> On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >>>> >>>> -1 >>>> We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If >>>> other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. >>>> >>>> Steve >>> >>> I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with Garage >>> Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other >>> software. And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. >> >> >> I'm broadly in favour of using GB (as all users gave it alreadybut >> >> a) it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut >> >> b) the rendered audio I get is vastly different from that which I get with >> SimpleSynth >> (SimpleSunth on Mac rendering sounds similar to what my PC produces with >> the same file). >> >> c) it doesn't work OOTB (AFAICT) unlike Windows, you have to do some >> configuration tweaking in GB I gave up testing with GB because of the stuck note bug (GB's bug, not ours), so I didn't get as far as testing for GM support (https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/gm-level-1-sound-set) The instructions that we have for both Windows and Linux provide reasonably good GM support, Do you have the full GM sound set working when you use GB, or just "some sound"? I think users will be rightfully disappointed if they are not able to achieve a reasonable level of GM. Steve >> >> Peter. >> >> >>> >>> >>> --James. >>> >>> >>> |
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From: Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@gm...> - 2017-07-26 08:54:45
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Paul wrote: >What does Audacity do that GB doesn't? Synchronize MIDI play with wave tracks >stored in Audacity's format, and give you basic cut copy and paste and the stretch >tool. Not much. What we have in 2.2.0 is just a bare beginning on which to build >new features, and one can easily think of many to keep contributors occupied, >but it's not here yet. Good points For my money the most important thing we should add for MIDI is the ability to render a Note track into an audio track. Peter On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Peter Sampson < petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: > >> On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >> >>> -1 >>> We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If >>> other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. >>> >>> Steve >>> >> I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with Garage >> Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other >> software. And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. >> > > I'm broadly in favour of using GB (as all users gave it alreadybut > > a) it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut > > b) the rendered audio I get is vastly different from that which I get with > SimpleSynth > (SimpleSunth on Mac rendering sounds similar to what my PC produces with > the same file). > > c) it doesn't work OOTB (AFAICT) unlike Windows, you have to do some > configuration tweaking in GB > > Peter. > > > >> >> --James. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Audacity-quality@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> > > |
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From: Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@gm...> - 2017-07-26 08:53:12
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On 26 July 2017 at 09:37, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: > On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: >> >> -1 >> We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If >> other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. >> >> Steve > > I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with Garage > Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other > software. I'm not convinced. How much testing will there be of Audacity with other software before the release? > And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. But it's still not straightforward plug and play. Apple won't support using GB this way, and our support team cannot be expected to support GB. There are still many other possible alternatives. For example, has anyone tried using QuickTime 7, (https://support.apple.com/kb/dl923?locale=en_US) or NI Kontakt player 5 (https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/samplers/kontakt-5-player/) I'm sure that there are many other options that don't require transmitting non-standard messages. Steve > > --James. |
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From: Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@gm...> - 2017-07-26 08:52:08
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On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:37 AM, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: > On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > >> -1 >> We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If >> other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. >> >> Steve >> > I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with Garage > Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other > software. And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. > I'm broadly in favour of using GB (as all users gave it alreadybut a) it is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut b) the rendered audio I get is vastly different from that which I get with SimpleSynth (SimpleSunth on Mac rendering sounds similar to what my PC produces with the same file). c) it doesn't work OOTB (AFAICT) unlike Windows, you have to do some configuration tweaking in GB Peter. > > --James. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > |
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From: James Crook <crookj@in...> - 2017-07-26 08:37:17
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On 7/26/2017 12:39 AM, Steve the Fiddle wrote: > -1 > We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If > other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. > > Steve I'm with Paul here. Implementing a workaround for notes-off with Garage Band makes good sense. I can't see it causing a problem with other software. And it makes GB, which all users will have, work with Audacity. --James. |
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From: Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@gm...> - 2017-07-26 00:56:36
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On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: > On 25 July 2017 at 23:58, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Peter Sampson > > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@... > > > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Steve the Fiddle > >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On 25 July 2017 at 19:26, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> > wrote: > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Steve the Fiddle > >>>> > <stevethefiddle@...> > >>>> > wrote: > >>>> >> > >>>> >> It was GarageBand that lead me to (wrongly) believe that Audacity > was > >>>> >> not sending "All note off" messages. > >>>> >> I'd not suggested GarrageBand because (for me at least) it's very > >>>> >> easy > >>>> >> to get notes stuck on (playing forever). > >>>> >> > >>>> >> Steve > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > Ah, so you must have known what I just discovered about making > >>>> > GarageBand > >>>> > listen to Audacity's MIDI events. > >>>> > > >>>> > Could there be a defect on GarageBand's side? > >>>> > >>>> Looks like that to me, though possibly a "limitation" rather than > >>>> "defect". GB is not really designed for this, and it does have MIDI > >>>> Reset for its own use. > >>>> > >>>> It's normal for MIDI files to sound different depending on the synth. > >>>> As an analogy, think of MIDI as the musical score, and the synth as > >>>> the instrument playing that score (music played on a trombone will > >>>> sound very different from the same musical score played on a flute) > >>> > >>> > >>> Where is GB' panic button? I have been hitting command + delete to get > >>> rid of the stuck instrument. > >> > >> > >> When I've been using Garageband as the software synth - when I stop > >> Audacity mid-note, > >> rather than getting the note continue ad nauseam I get a nice diminuendo > >> down to zero. > >> > >> Peter > > > > > > Yes, but that can depend on which kind of instrument you play it as. > Make > > sure you show the Library under the View menu, then choose > Orchestral/Pipe > > Organ/Cathedral Organ. I found organ notes would sustain indefinitely > after > > I stopped or paused Audacity, before I added the recent change. > > > > PRL > > > > > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> There is this reference of MIDI codes: > >>> https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/table-1-summary-of- > midi-message > >>> > >>> And if you examine AudioIO::AllNotesOff, you see that we send 0xB0 > (which > >>> is binary 10110000) plus channel, and 0x7B (which is decimal 123), > which is > >>> the correct notes-off message according to that table. > >>> > >>> So yes, maybe we can blame GarageBand. However, if we want to > encourage > >>> naive users (like me! And dare I say Peter!) to play with Audacity + > GB, > >>> then maybe we can code a workaround. Send all pending single notes-off > >>> messages, which GB properly interprets, when we pause or stop. > > -1 > We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If > other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. > > Steve > It does not seem harmful to add some more individual note-off messages. Agreed it should not be necessary, and GB seems to be failing its side of the protocol. Peter was wanting, though, some way to make Audacity's MIDI play work on Mac, without any extra downloaded software. Play through GarageBand is a possibility, and this workaround avoids the obvious defect one might soon discover. And even if we don't recommend it, somebody may discover it, and discover the bug, and blame our program wrongly. Still, even with this fix, I don't think we give the user who knows GarageBand a great reason not simply to open the MIDI file in Garage band. It is a self contained player, and it may visualize MIDI in better ways, showing channels separately and including a switch to a musical staff view. I found that it can record the incoming MIDI stream, even though it doesn't split it into channels, and gives you a variety of means to edit it. What does Audacity do that GB doesn't? Synchronize MIDI play with wave tracks stored in Audacity's format, and give you basic cut copy and paste and the stretch tool. Not much. What we have in 2.2.0 is just a bare beginning on which to build new features, and one can easily think of many to keep contributors occupied, but it's not here yet. So I'm saying I do not think we should not mention Garage Band as the sole possibility for MID play with Audacity, if indeed at all. PRL >>> >>> PRL >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On 25 July 2017 at 18:46, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Peter Sampson >>>> >> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Paul Licameli >>>> >> >> <paul.licameli@...> >>>> >> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle >>>> >> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli >>>> >> >>>> <paul.licameli@...> >>>> >> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson >>>> >> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page: >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us >>>> >> >>>> >> recommending a >>>> >> >>>> >> package >>>> >> >>>> >> like this whose website shows that it has not been >>>> >> >>>> >> maintained/updated >>>> >> >>>> >> since >>>> >> >>>> >> 5th September 2009. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email >>>> >> >>>> >> in >>>> >> >>>> >> this >>>> >> >>>> >> thread, he >>>> >> >>>> >> shares my misgivings in regard to this. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us. Did he >>>> >> >>>> > not say >>>> >> >>>> > he >>>> >> >>>> > still >>>> >> >>>> > recommends SimpleSynth to students? So why not let our manual >>>> >> >>>> > do >>>> >> >>>> > the >>>> >> >>>> > same? >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant >>>> >> >>>> > (or >>>> >> >>>> > nicely >>>> >> >>>> > stable?) since 2009. Can Roger recommend another more up to >>>> >> >>>> > date, >>>> >> >>>> > recently >>>> >> >>>> > maintained, and reputable third party software synth for >>>> >> >>>> > mention in >>>> >> >>>> > our >>>> >> >>>> > manual? >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other >>>> >> >>>> > third-party >>>> >> >>>> > software such as LAME? >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who >>>> >> >>>> builds the >>>> >> >>>> version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is >>>> >> >>>> freely >>>> >> >>>> available. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third >>>> >> >>>> party >>>> >> >>>> software. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us >>>> >> >>>> >> needing >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> >>>> >> recommend >>>> >> >>>> >> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users >>>> >> >>>> >> - >>>> >> >>>> >> and >>>> >> >>>> >> indeed >>>> >> >>>> >> software >>>> >> >>>> >> that is no longer maintained and tended. >>>> >> >>>> >> I do have grave misgivings about this. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play >>>> >> >>>> >> MIDI >>>> >> >>>> >> files >>>> >> >>>> >> without the need or >>>> >> >>>> >> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday. >>>> >> >>>> >> Double-clicking >>>> >> >>>> >> on a MIDI file >>>> >> >>>> >> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just >>>> >> >>>> >> ne >>>> >> >>>> >> played >>>> >> >>>> >> with >>>> >> >>>> >> no other >>>> >> >>>> >> intervention - so my thinking is: if Garageband can do that, >>>> >> >>>> >> why >>>> >> >>>> >> can't >>>> >> >>>> >> Audacity? >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal >>>> >> >>>> > MIDI >>>> >> >>>> > renderer. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> Yes it does. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Eureka! GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits! >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of >>>> >> >>> GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in >>>> >> >>> Audacity. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the >>>> >> >>> track >>>> >> >>> headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument >>>> >> >>> Track." >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Voila! A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the >>>> >> >>> music, >>>> >> >>> as electric piano. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the >>>> >> >>> input >>>> >> >>> channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can >>>> >> >>> with >>>> >> >>> SimpleSynth. Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it >>>> >> >>> would if >>>> >> >>> I >>>> >> >>> opened the MIDI file directly. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> But this is something. You CAN do it on a Macbook just with >>>> >> >>> what's in >>>> >> >>> the box. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> And the steps to reproduce are ... >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Please. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > As I said, there is a right button context menu if you click above >>>> >> > any >>>> >> > of >>>> >> > the volume sliders of the track. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Or even easier: Alt+Command+S. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > PRL >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Peter. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> PRL >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight >>>> >> >>>> > program >>>> >> >>>> > for >>>> >> >>>> > MIDI >>>> >> >>>> > play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this >>>> >> >>>> > release. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding >>>> >> >>>> > more >>>> >> >>>> > third-party >>>> >> >>>> > libraries to our build, wouldn't it? Not gonna happen in >>>> >> >>>> > 2.2.0. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> There are some other third party options that I've been looking >>>> >> >>>> at, >>>> >> >>>> but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback >>>> >> >>>> has >>>> >> >>>> only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we >>>> >> >>>> need to >>>> >> >>>> link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to >>>> >> >>>> update the Mac documentation after release? >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> Steve >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > PRL >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie >>>> >> >>>> >> <billwh@...> >>>> >> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Peter: >>>> >> >>>> >>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth >>>> >> >>>> >>> not >>>> >> >>>> >>> having >>>> >> >>>> >>> been updated since 2009. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window >>>> >> >>>> >>> that >>>> >> >>>> >>> looks >>>> >> >>>> >>> somewhat different from yours. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” >>>> >> >>>> >>> working >>>> >> >>>> >>> computer until I know more about it. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> — Bill >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson >>>> >> >>>> >>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >>>> >> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft >>>> >> >>>> >>> instructions >>>> >> >>>> >>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac; >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/m an/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the >>>> >> >>>> >>> softwware >>>> >> >>>> >>> synth >>>> >> >>>> >>> after I reboooted >>>> >> >>>> >>> my Mac - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written >>>> >> >>>> >>> earlier >>>> >> >>>> >>> helped me >>>> >> >>>> >>> climb >>>> >> >>>> >>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" >>>> >> >>>> >>> embarrasssingly). >>>> >> >>>> >>> So I added a note about that on the page. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the >>>> >> >>>> >>> instructions on >>>> >> >>>> >>> this page. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> (more comments inline) >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Cheers, >>>> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle >>>> >> >>>> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd >>>> >> >>>> >>>> guess >>>> >> >>>> >>>> that >>>> >> >>>> >>>> on >>>> >> >>>> >>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that >>>> >> >>>> >>>> has an >>>> >> >>>> >>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity >>>> >> >>>> >>>> "out of >>>> >> >>>> >>>> the >>>> >> >>>> >>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board >>>> >> >>>> >>>> MIDI >>>> >> >>>> >>>> synth, >>>> >> >>>> >>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested >>>> >> >>>> >>>> this? >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that >>>> >> >>>> >>> is >>>> >> >>>> >>> MIDI >>>> >> >>>> >>> enabled >>>> >> >>>> >>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my >>>> >> >>>> >>> laptop. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has >>>> >> >>>> >>> no >>>> >> >>>> >>> onboard >>>> >> >>>> >>> soundcard, >>>> >> >>>> >>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson >>>> >> >>>> >>>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > double-clicking >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > tweaks) >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > just >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > (with >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > WMP) >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> arm-wrestling >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> my >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> it >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> an >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Audacity Note track. But getting there was very >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> painful. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> (and >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> that we >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> currently have in the Manual): >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_ Recording#midi >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> we >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> say) >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> interpretation. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> one >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> which >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> normal humans can understand. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> on >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Linux >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Timidity. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> or in >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> the >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Wiki >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> right >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> now. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> installing >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> extra >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> stuff, >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> no tweaking >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Play - >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> out >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> comes the >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> sound ... >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > ------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > world's >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > most >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>>> >> >>>> >>> most >>>> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> http://sdm.link/slashdot______ _________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>>> >> >>>> >>> most >>>> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/ lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> >> >>>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>>> >> >>>> >> most >>>> >> >>>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-qualit y >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> >> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>>> >> >>>> > most >>>> >> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> >> >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> >> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >> >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> > Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Audacity-quality@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ Audacity-quality mailing list Audacity-quality@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality |
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From: Vaughan Johnson <v.audacity@gm...> - 2017-07-26 00:13:27
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:-) On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:05 PM, James Crook <crookj@...> wrote: > I think I know how to do that, and will do it when I get a round tuit :-) > > > On 7/25/2017 11:00 PM, Peter Sampson wrote: > >> OK so now we have gotten rid of the visible ednotes for non-logged in >> (civilian) users ... >> >> We still have to deal with the nav bars, as a non-logged in user still >> sees >> the following >> nav bars which are meant for editors only: >> a) for editors >> b) to do >> c) tools >> >> Peter. >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > |
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From: Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@gm...> - 2017-07-25 23:57:37
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On 25/07/2017, Richard Ash <richard@...> wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 22:07:02 +0100 > Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: > >> So we can see that there are number of disadvantages and traps for the >> unwary in retaining the before zero fragment. >> Is there any benefit - any reason that the before zero fragment should >> be retained? > I would be fairly miffed if I found that Audacity kept slicing the > start off my recordings. Given the choice, I would probably have > pre-roll enabled (i.e. keep sound from before I pressed record). I > essentially never overdub, but do use Audacity quite a bit as a "grab > that and analyse it" tool. I don't want to have to press record and > then wait before making the sound to be sure I don't loose a bit. You're mixing two concepts I think: 1. Roll-in --> Starts the recording earlier than the edit cursor position. This can either only play before the edit cursor or also start recording from there as well. 2. Pre-buffering --> the input device is always monitored and buffered so that you have e.g. the recording from five seconds earlier than you've pressed the key. Naturally a good feature for recording live events (no "Darn, I missed the song intro again...") The latter would be something that has to be managed for each clip individually. The pre-buffer would be hidden by default but you could retrieve this audio by dragging a handle or something. This is closely related to automatic cross fades between adjacent clips since something has to overlap in order to do that. Robert > > However presumably I could get round this by setting the "Latency > Correction" preference to zero? > > Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > |
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From: Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@gm...> - 2017-07-25 23:53:32
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On 25 July 2017 at 20:29, Richard Ash <richard@...> wrote: > On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 22:07:02 +0100 > Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: > >> So we can see that there are number of disadvantages and traps for the >> unwary in retaining the before zero fragment. >> Is there any benefit - any reason that the before zero fragment should >> be retained? > I would be fairly miffed if I found that Audacity kept slicing the > start off my recordings. Given the choice, I would probably have > pre-roll enabled (i.e. keep sound from before I pressed record). I > essentially never overdub, but do use Audacity quite a bit as a "grab > that and analyse it" tool. I don't want to have to press record and > then wait before making the sound to be sure I don't loose a bit. "Waiting" for 0.1 seconds ? > > However presumably I could get round this by setting the "Latency > Correction" preference to zero? Absolutely. If you don't record to multiple tracks, there's no need for latency compensation. "Pre-roll recoding" in the sense of maintaining a recording buffer so that recording can start 'before' the record button is pressed, has had quite a few requests. It's an ideal solution for those "grab that now" moments, though probably an "off by default" option. To be worthwhile, I think it would need to hold at least a few seconds of audio in RAM. Steve > > Richard |
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From: Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@gm...> - 2017-07-25 23:40:02
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On 25 July 2017 at 23:58, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Peter Sampson > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Steve the Fiddle >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 25 July 2017 at 19:26, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Steve the Fiddle >>>> > <stevethefiddle@...> >>>> > wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> It was GarageBand that lead me to (wrongly) believe that Audacity was >>>> >> not sending "All note off" messages. >>>> >> I'd not suggested GarrageBand because (for me at least) it's very >>>> >> easy >>>> >> to get notes stuck on (playing forever). >>>> >> >>>> >> Steve >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Ah, so you must have known what I just discovered about making >>>> > GarageBand >>>> > listen to Audacity's MIDI events. >>>> > >>>> > Could there be a defect on GarageBand's side? >>>> >>>> Looks like that to me, though possibly a "limitation" rather than >>>> "defect". GB is not really designed for this, and it does have MIDI >>>> Reset for its own use. >>>> >>>> It's normal for MIDI files to sound different depending on the synth. >>>> As an analogy, think of MIDI as the musical score, and the synth as >>>> the instrument playing that score (music played on a trombone will >>>> sound very different from the same musical score played on a flute) >>> >>> >>> Where is GB' panic button? I have been hitting command + delete to get >>> rid of the stuck instrument. >> >> >> When I've been using Garageband as the software synth - when I stop >> Audacity mid-note, >> rather than getting the note continue ad nauseam I get a nice diminuendo >> down to zero. >> >> Peter > > > Yes, but that can depend on which kind of instrument you play it as. Make > sure you show the Library under the View menu, then choose Orchestral/Pipe > Organ/Cathedral Organ. I found organ notes would sustain indefinitely after > I stopped or paused Audacity, before I added the recent change. > > PRL > > >> >> >>> >>> >>> There is this reference of MIDI codes: >>> https://www.midi.org/specifications/item/table-1-summary-of-midi-message >>> >>> And if you examine AudioIO::AllNotesOff, you see that we send 0xB0 (which >>> is binary 10110000) plus channel, and 0x7B (which is decimal 123), which is >>> the correct notes-off message according to that table. >>> >>> So yes, maybe we can blame GarageBand. However, if we want to encourage >>> naive users (like me! And dare I say Peter!) to play with Audacity + GB, >>> then maybe we can code a workaround. Send all pending single notes-off >>> messages, which GB properly interprets, when we pause or stop. -1 We should implement MIDI according to long established standards. If other software is incompatible, then we don't recommend it. Steve >>> >>> PRL >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On 25 July 2017 at 18:46, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Peter Sampson >>>> >> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Paul Licameli >>>> >> >> <paul.licameli@...> >>>> >> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle >>>> >> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli >>>> >> >>>> <paul.licameli@...> >>>> >> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson >>>> >> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page: >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us >>>> >> >>>> >> recommending a >>>> >> >>>> >> package >>>> >> >>>> >> like this whose website shows that it has not been >>>> >> >>>> >> maintained/updated >>>> >> >>>> >> since >>>> >> >>>> >> 5th September 2009. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email >>>> >> >>>> >> in >>>> >> >>>> >> this >>>> >> >>>> >> thread, he >>>> >> >>>> >> shares my misgivings in regard to this. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us. Did he >>>> >> >>>> > not say >>>> >> >>>> > he >>>> >> >>>> > still >>>> >> >>>> > recommends SimpleSynth to students? So why not let our manual >>>> >> >>>> > do >>>> >> >>>> > the >>>> >> >>>> > same? >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant >>>> >> >>>> > (or >>>> >> >>>> > nicely >>>> >> >>>> > stable?) since 2009. Can Roger recommend another more up to >>>> >> >>>> > date, >>>> >> >>>> > recently >>>> >> >>>> > maintained, and reputable third party software synth for >>>> >> >>>> > mention in >>>> >> >>>> > our >>>> >> >>>> > manual? >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other >>>> >> >>>> > third-party >>>> >> >>>> > software such as LAME? >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who >>>> >> >>>> builds the >>>> >> >>>> version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is >>>> >> >>>> freely >>>> >> >>>> available. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third >>>> >> >>>> party >>>> >> >>>> software. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us >>>> >> >>>> >> needing >>>> >> >>>> >> to >>>> >> >>>> >> recommend >>>> >> >>>> >> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users >>>> >> >>>> >> - >>>> >> >>>> >> and >>>> >> >>>> >> indeed >>>> >> >>>> >> software >>>> >> >>>> >> that is no longer maintained and tended. >>>> >> >>>> >> I do have grave misgivings about this. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play >>>> >> >>>> >> MIDI >>>> >> >>>> >> files >>>> >> >>>> >> without the need or >>>> >> >>>> >> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday. >>>> >> >>>> >> Double-clicking >>>> >> >>>> >> on a MIDI file >>>> >> >>>> >> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just >>>> >> >>>> >> ne >>>> >> >>>> >> played >>>> >> >>>> >> with >>>> >> >>>> >> no other >>>> >> >>>> >> intervention - so my thinking is: if Garageband can do that, >>>> >> >>>> >> why >>>> >> >>>> >> can't >>>> >> >>>> >> Audacity? >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal >>>> >> >>>> > MIDI >>>> >> >>>> > renderer. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> Yes it does. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Eureka! GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits! >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of >>>> >> >>> GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in >>>> >> >>> Audacity. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the >>>> >> >>> track >>>> >> >>> headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument >>>> >> >>> Track." >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Voila! A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the >>>> >> >>> music, >>>> >> >>> as electric piano. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the >>>> >> >>> input >>>> >> >>> channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can >>>> >> >>> with >>>> >> >>> SimpleSynth. Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it >>>> >> >>> would if >>>> >> >>> I >>>> >> >>> opened the MIDI file directly. >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> But this is something. You CAN do it on a Macbook just with >>>> >> >>> what's in >>>> >> >>> the box. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> And the steps to reproduce are ... >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Please. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > As I said, there is a right button context menu if you click above >>>> >> > any >>>> >> > of >>>> >> > the volume sliders of the track. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Or even easier: Alt+Command+S. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > PRL >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Peter. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> PRL >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight >>>> >> >>>> > program >>>> >> >>>> > for >>>> >> >>>> > MIDI >>>> >> >>>> > play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this >>>> >> >>>> > release. >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding >>>> >> >>>> > more >>>> >> >>>> > third-party >>>> >> >>>> > libraries to our build, wouldn't it? Not gonna happen in >>>> >> >>>> > 2.2.0. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> There are some other third party options that I've been looking >>>> >> >>>> at, >>>> >> >>>> but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback >>>> >> >>>> has >>>> >> >>>> only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we >>>> >> >>>> need to >>>> >> >>>> link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to >>>> >> >>>> update the Mac documentation after release? >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> Steve >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > PRL >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie >>>> >> >>>> >> <billwh@...> >>>> >> >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Peter: >>>> >> >>>> >>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth >>>> >> >>>> >>> not >>>> >> >>>> >>> having >>>> >> >>>> >>> been updated since 2009. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window >>>> >> >>>> >>> that >>>> >> >>>> >>> looks >>>> >> >>>> >>> somewhat different from yours. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” >>>> >> >>>> >>> working >>>> >> >>>> >>> computer until I know more about it. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> — Bill >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson >>>> >> >>>> >>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >>>> >> >>>> >>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft >>>> >> >>>> >>> instructions >>>> >> >>>> >>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac; >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_playback_on_Mac >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the >>>> >> >>>> >>> softwware >>>> >> >>>> >>> synth >>>> >> >>>> >>> after I reboooted >>>> >> >>>> >>> my Mac - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written >>>> >> >>>> >>> earlier >>>> >> >>>> >>> helped me >>>> >> >>>> >>> climb >>>> >> >>>> >>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" >>>> >> >>>> >>> embarrasssingly). >>>> >> >>>> >>> So I added a note about that on the page. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the >>>> >> >>>> >>> instructions on >>>> >> >>>> >>> this page. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> (more comments inline) >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Cheers, >>>> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle >>>> >> >>>> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd >>>> >> >>>> >>>> guess >>>> >> >>>> >>>> that >>>> >> >>>> >>>> on >>>> >> >>>> >>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that >>>> >> >>>> >>>> has an >>>> >> >>>> >>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity >>>> >> >>>> >>>> "out of >>>> >> >>>> >>>> the >>>> >> >>>> >>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board >>>> >> >>>> >>>> MIDI >>>> >> >>>> >>>> synth, >>>> >> >>>> >>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested >>>> >> >>>> >>>> this? >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that >>>> >> >>>> >>> is >>>> >> >>>> >>> MIDI >>>> >> >>>> >>> enabled >>>> >> >>>> >>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my >>>> >> >>>> >>> laptop. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has >>>> >> >>>> >>> no >>>> >> >>>> >>> onboard >>>> >> >>>> >>> soundcard, >>>> >> >>>> >>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson >>>> >> >>>> >>>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > double-clicking >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > tweaks) >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > just >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > (with >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > WMP) >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> arm-wrestling >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> my >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> it >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> an >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Audacity Note track. But getting there was very >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> painful. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> (and >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> that we >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> currently have in the Manual): >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> we >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> say) >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> interpretation. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> one >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> which >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> normal humans can understand. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> on >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Linux >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Timidity. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> or in >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> the >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Wiki >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> right >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> now. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> installing >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> extra >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> stuff, >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> no tweaking >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Play - >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> out >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> comes the >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> sound ... >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Peter. >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > world's >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > most >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>>> >> >>>> >>> most >>>> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> http://sdm.link/slashdot_______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>>> >> >>>> >>> most >>>> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>>> >> >>>> >> most >>>> >> >>>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>>> >> >>>> > most >>>> >> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> >> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> >> >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>>> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> > Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> >> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> >> Audacity-quality@... >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>>> Audacity-quality@... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Audacity-quality@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > |
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From: Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@gm...> - 2017-07-25 22:58:42
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On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:08 PM, Peter Sampson < petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Steve the Fiddle < >> stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >> >>> On 25 July 2017 at 19:26, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Steve the Fiddle < >>> stevethefiddle@...> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> It was GarageBand that lead me to (wrongly) believe that Audacity was >>> >> not sending "All note off" messages. >>> >> I'd not suggested GarrageBand because (for me at least) it's very easy >>> >> to get notes stuck on (playing forever). >>> >> >>> >> Steve >>> > >>> > >>> > Ah, so you must have known what I just discovered about making >>> GarageBand >>> > listen to Audacity's MIDI events. >>> > >>> > Could there be a defect on GarageBand's side? >>> >>> Looks like that to me, though possibly a "limitation" rather than >>> "defect". GB is not really designed for this, and it does have MIDI >>> Reset for its own use. >>> >>> It's normal for MIDI files to sound different depending on the synth. >>> As an analogy, think of MIDI as the musical score, and the synth as >>> the instrument playing that score (music played on a trombone will >>> sound very different from the same musical score played on a flute) >>> >> >> Where is GB' panic button? I have been hitting command + delete to get >> rid of the stuck instrument. >> > > When I've been using Garageband as the software synth - when I stop > Audacity mid-note, > rather than getting the note continue ad nauseam I get a nice diminuendo > down to zero. > > Peter > Yes, but that can depend on which kind of instrument you play it as. Make sure you show the Library under the View menu, then choose Orchestral/Pipe Organ/Cathedral Organ. I found organ notes would sustain indefinitely after I stopped or paused Audacity, before I added the recent change. PRL > > >> >> There is this reference of MIDI codes: https://www.midi.org/sp >> ecifications/item/table-1-summary-of-midi-message >> >> And if you examine AudioIO::AllNotesOff, you see that we send 0xB0 (which >> is binary 10110000) plus channel, and 0x7B (which is decimal 123), which is >> the correct notes-off message according to that table. >> >> So yes, maybe we can blame GarageBand. However, if we want to encourage >> naive users (like me! And dare I say Peter!) to play with Audacity + GB, >> then maybe we can code a workaround. Send all pending single notes-off >> messages, which GB properly interprets, when we pause or stop. >> >> PRL >> >> >> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 25 July 2017 at 18:46, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> >>> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Peter Sampson >>> >> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Paul Licameli >>> >> >> <paul.licameli@...> >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle >>> >> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@... >>> > >>> >> >>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson >>> >> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page: >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us >>> recommending a >>> >> >>>> >> package >>> >> >>>> >> like this whose website shows that it has not been >>> >> >>>> >> maintained/updated >>> >> >>>> >> since >>> >> >>>> >> 5th September 2009. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email >>> in >>> >> >>>> >> this >>> >> >>>> >> thread, he >>> >> >>>> >> shares my misgivings in regard to this. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us. Did he >>> not say >>> >> >>>> > he >>> >> >>>> > still >>> >> >>>> > recommends SimpleSynth to students? So why not let our manual >>> do >>> >> >>>> > the >>> >> >>>> > same? >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant >>> (or >>> >> >>>> > nicely >>> >> >>>> > stable?) since 2009. Can Roger recommend another more up to >>> date, >>> >> >>>> > recently >>> >> >>>> > maintained, and reputable third party software synth for >>> mention in >>> >> >>>> > our >>> >> >>>> > manual? >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other >>> >> >>>> > third-party >>> >> >>>> > software such as LAME? >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who >>> builds the >>> >> >>>> version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is >>> freely >>> >> >>>> available. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third >>> >> >>>> party >>> >> >>>> software. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us >>> >> >>>> >> needing >>> >> >>>> >> to >>> >> >>>> >> recommend >>> >> >>>> >> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users >>> - >>> >> >>>> >> and >>> >> >>>> >> indeed >>> >> >>>> >> software >>> >> >>>> >> that is no longer maintained and tended. >>> >> >>>> >> I do have grave misgivings about this. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play >>> MIDI >>> >> >>>> >> files >>> >> >>>> >> without the need or >>> >> >>>> >> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday. >>> >> >>>> >> Double-clicking >>> >> >>>> >> on a MIDI file >>> >> >>>> >> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne >>> >> >>>> >> played >>> >> >>>> >> with >>> >> >>>> >> no other >>> >> >>>> >> intervention - so my thinking is: if Garageband can do that, >>> why >>> >> >>>> >> can't >>> >> >>>> >> Audacity? >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal >>> MIDI >>> >> >>>> > renderer. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Yes it does. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Eureka! GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits! >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of >>> >> >>> GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in >>> >> >>> Audacity. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the >>> >> >>> track >>> >> >>> headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument Track." >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Voila! A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the >>> >> >>> music, >>> >> >>> as electric piano. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the input >>> >> >>> channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can with >>> >> >>> SimpleSynth. Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it >>> would if >>> >> >>> I >>> >> >>> opened the MIDI file directly. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> But this is something. You CAN do it on a Macbook just with >>> what's in >>> >> >>> the box. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> And the steps to reproduce are ... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Please. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > As I said, there is a right button context menu if you click above >>> any >>> >> > of >>> >> > the volume sliders of the track. >>> >> > >>> >> > Or even easier: Alt+Command+S. >>> >> > >>> >> > PRL >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Peter. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> PRL >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight >>> program >>> >> >>>> > for >>> >> >>>> > MIDI >>> >> >>>> > play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding >>> more >>> >> >>>> > third-party >>> >> >>>> > libraries to our build, wouldn't it? Not gonna happen in >>> 2.2.0. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> There are some other third party options that I've been looking >>> at, >>> >> >>>> but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback >>> has >>> >> >>>> only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we >>> need to >>> >> >>>> link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to >>> >> >>>> update the Mac documentation after release? >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Steve >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > PRL >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Peter. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie < >>> billwh@...> >>> >> >>>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Peter: >>> >> >>>> >>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth >>> not >>> >> >>>> >>> having >>> >> >>>> >>> been updated since 2009. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window >>> that >>> >> >>>> >>> looks >>> >> >>>> >>> somewhat different from yours. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” >>> >> >>>> >>> working >>> >> >>>> >>> computer until I know more about it. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> — Bill >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson >>> >> >>>> >>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >>> >> >>>> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft >>> >> >>>> >>> instructions >>> >> >>>> >>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac; >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_play >>> back_on_Mac >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the >>> softwware >>> >> >>>> >>> synth >>> >> >>>> >>> after I reboooted >>> >> >>>> >>> my Mac - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written >>> earlier >>> >> >>>> >>> helped me >>> >> >>>> >>> climb >>> >> >>>> >>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" >>> >> >>>> >>> embarrasssingly). >>> >> >>>> >>> So I added a note about that on the page. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the >>> >> >>>> >>> instructions on >>> >> >>>> >>> this page. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> (more comments inline) >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Cheers, >>> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle >>> >> >>>> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd >>> guess >>> >> >>>> >>>> that >>> >> >>>> >>>> on >>> >> >>>> >>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that >>> has an >>> >> >>>> >>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity >>> "out of >>> >> >>>> >>>> the >>> >> >>>> >>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board >>> MIDI >>> >> >>>> >>>> synth, >>> >> >>>> >>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested >>> this? >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is >>> >> >>>> >>> MIDI >>> >> >>>> >>> enabled >>> >> >>>> >>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my >>> laptop. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no >>> >> >>>> >>> onboard >>> >> >>>> >>> soundcard, >>> >> >>>> >>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> Steve >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson >>> >> >>>> >>>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >>> >> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just >>> >> >>>> >>>> > double-clicking >>> >> >>>> >>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation >>> tweaks) >>> >> >>>> >>>> > just >>> >> >>>> >>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely. >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it >>> (with >>> >> >>>> >>>> > WMP) >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > Peter. >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson >>> >> >>>> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> arm-wrestling >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> my >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> an >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Audacity Note track. But getting there was very painful. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me >>> (and >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> that we >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> currently have in the Manual): >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacitytea >>> m.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> say) >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> interpretation. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - >>> one >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> which >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> normal humans can understand. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Linux >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Timidity. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual >>> or in >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> the >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Wiki >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide >>> right >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> now. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no >>> installing >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> extra >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> stuff, >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> no tweaking >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press >>> Play - >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> out >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> comes the >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> sound ... >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Peter. >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > ------------------------------ >>> ------------------------------------------------ >>> >> >>>> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>> >> >>>> >>>> > most >>> >> >>>> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >>> http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/ >>> lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>> most >>> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> http://sdm.link/slashdot____________________________________ >>> ___________ >>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-qualit >>> y >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>> most >>> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-qualit >>> y >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>> most >>> >> >>>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> > Audacity-quality@... >>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>> > Audacity-quality@... >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Audacity-quality@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > > |
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From: Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@gm...> - 2017-07-25 22:08:53
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On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Steve the Fiddle < > stevethefiddle@...> wrote: > >> On 25 July 2017 at 19:26, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> wrote: >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Steve the Fiddle < >> stevethefiddle@...> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> It was GarageBand that lead me to (wrongly) believe that Audacity was >> >> not sending "All note off" messages. >> >> I'd not suggested GarrageBand because (for me at least) it's very easy >> >> to get notes stuck on (playing forever). >> >> >> >> Steve >> > >> > >> > Ah, so you must have known what I just discovered about making >> GarageBand >> > listen to Audacity's MIDI events. >> > >> > Could there be a defect on GarageBand's side? >> >> Looks like that to me, though possibly a "limitation" rather than >> "defect". GB is not really designed for this, and it does have MIDI >> Reset for its own use. >> >> It's normal for MIDI files to sound different depending on the synth. >> As an analogy, think of MIDI as the musical score, and the synth as >> the instrument playing that score (music played on a trombone will >> sound very different from the same musical score played on a flute) >> > > Where is GB' panic button? I have been hitting command + delete to get > rid of the stuck instrument. > When I've been using Garageband as the software synth - when I stop Audacity mid-note, rather than getting the note continue ad nauseam I get a nice diminuendo down to zero. Peter > > There is this reference of MIDI codes: https://www.midi.org/ > specifications/item/table-1-summary-of-midi-message > > And if you examine AudioIO::AllNotesOff, you see that we send 0xB0 (which > is binary 10110000) plus channel, and 0x7B (which is decimal 123), which is > the correct notes-off message according to that table. > > So yes, maybe we can blame GarageBand. However, if we want to encourage > naive users (like me! And dare I say Peter!) to play with Audacity + GB, > then maybe we can code a workaround. Send all pending single notes-off > messages, which GB properly interprets, when we pause or stop. > > PRL > > > >> >> Steve >> >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> On 25 July 2017 at 18:46, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Peter Sampson >> >> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Paul Licameli >> >> >> <paul.licameli@...> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle >> >> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson >> >> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page: >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us recommending >> a >> >> >>>> >> package >> >> >>>> >> like this whose website shows that it has not been >> >> >>>> >> maintained/updated >> >> >>>> >> since >> >> >>>> >> 5th September 2009. >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email in >> >> >>>> >> this >> >> >>>> >> thread, he >> >> >>>> >> shares my misgivings in regard to this. >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us. Did he not >> say >> >> >>>> > he >> >> >>>> > still >> >> >>>> > recommends SimpleSynth to students? So why not let our manual >> do >> >> >>>> > the >> >> >>>> > same? >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant (or >> >> >>>> > nicely >> >> >>>> > stable?) since 2009. Can Roger recommend another more up to >> date, >> >> >>>> > recently >> >> >>>> > maintained, and reputable third party software synth for >> mention in >> >> >>>> > our >> >> >>>> > manual? >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other >> >> >>>> > third-party >> >> >>>> > software such as LAME? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who builds >> the >> >> >>>> version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is >> freely >> >> >>>> available. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third >> >> >>>> party >> >> >>>> software. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us >> >> >>>> >> needing >> >> >>>> >> to >> >> >>>> >> recommend >> >> >>>> >> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users - >> >> >>>> >> and >> >> >>>> >> indeed >> >> >>>> >> software >> >> >>>> >> that is no longer maintained and tended. >> >> >>>> >> I do have grave misgivings about this. >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play MIDI >> >> >>>> >> files >> >> >>>> >> without the need or >> >> >>>> >> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday. >> >> >>>> >> Double-clicking >> >> >>>> >> on a MIDI file >> >> >>>> >> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne >> >> >>>> >> played >> >> >>>> >> with >> >> >>>> >> no other >> >> >>>> >> intervention - so my thinking is: if Garageband can do that, >> why >> >> >>>> >> can't >> >> >>>> >> Audacity? >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal >> MIDI >> >> >>>> > renderer. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Yes it does. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Eureka! GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits! >> >> >>> >> >> >>> This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of >> >> >>> GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in >> >> >>> Audacity. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the >> >> >>> track >> >> >>> headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument Track." >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Voila! A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the >> >> >>> music, >> >> >>> as electric piano. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the input >> >> >>> channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can with >> >> >>> SimpleSynth. Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it >> would if >> >> >>> I >> >> >>> opened the MIDI file directly. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> But this is something. You CAN do it on a Macbook just with >> what's in >> >> >>> the box. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> And the steps to reproduce are ... >> >> >> >> >> >> Please. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > As I said, there is a right button context menu if you click above >> any >> >> > of >> >> > the volume sliders of the track. >> >> > >> >> > Or even easier: Alt+Command+S. >> >> > >> >> > PRL >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Peter. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> PRL >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight >> program >> >> >>>> > for >> >> >>>> > MIDI >> >> >>>> > play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release. >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding more >> >> >>>> > third-party >> >> >>>> > libraries to our build, wouldn't it? Not gonna happen in 2.2.0. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> There are some other third party options that I've been looking >> at, >> >> >>>> but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback >> has >> >> >>>> only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we need >> to >> >> >>>> link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to >> >> >>>> update the Mac documentation after release? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Steve >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > PRL >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> Peter. >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie < >> billwh@...> >> >> >>>> >> wrote: >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> Peter: >> >> >>>> >>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth >> not >> >> >>>> >>> having >> >> >>>> >>> been updated since 2009. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window >> that >> >> >>>> >>> looks >> >> >>>> >>> somewhat different from yours. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” >> >> >>>> >>> working >> >> >>>> >>> computer until I know more about it. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> — Bill >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson >> >> >>>> >>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >> >> >>>> >>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft >> >> >>>> >>> instructions >> >> >>>> >>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac; >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_play >> back_on_Mac >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the softwware >> >> >>>> >>> synth >> >> >>>> >>> after I reboooted >> >> >>>> >>> my Mac - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written earlier >> >> >>>> >>> helped me >> >> >>>> >>> climb >> >> >>>> >>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" >> >> >>>> >>> embarrasssingly). >> >> >>>> >>> So I added a note about that on the page. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the >> >> >>>> >>> instructions on >> >> >>>> >>> this page. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> (more comments inline) >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> Cheers, >> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle >> >> >>>> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd guess >> >> >>>> >>>> that >> >> >>>> >>>> on >> >> >>>> >>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that has >> an >> >> >>>> >>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity "out >> of >> >> >>>> >>>> the >> >> >>>> >>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board MIDI >> >> >>>> >>>> synth, >> >> >>>> >>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested >> this? >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is >> >> >>>> >>> MIDI >> >> >>>> >>> enabled >> >> >>>> >>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my laptop. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no >> >> >>>> >>> onboard >> >> >>>> >>> soundcard, >> >> >>>> >>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>>> Steve >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson >> >> >>>> >>>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >> >> >>>> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>> >>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just >> >> >>>> >>>> > double-clicking >> >> >>>> >>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation >> tweaks) >> >> >>>> >>>> > just >> >> >>>> >>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely. >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it >> (with >> >> >>>> >>>> > WMP) >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > Peter. >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson >> >> >>>> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of >> >> >>>> >>>> >> arm-wrestling >> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >> >> >>>> >>>> >> my >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it >> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >> >> >>>> >>>> >> an >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Audacity Note track. But getting there was very painful. >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me >> (and >> >> >>>> >>>> >> that we >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> currently have in the Manual): >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/Playing_and_ >> Recording#midi >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we >> >> >>>> >>>> >> say) >> >> >>>> >>>> >> interpretation. >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - >> one >> >> >>>> >>>> >> which >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> normal humans can understand. >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Linux >> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Timidity. >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual >> or in >> >> >>>> >>>> >> the >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Wiki >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide >> right >> >> >>>> >>>> >> now. >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no >> installing >> >> >>>> >>>> >> extra >> >> >>>> >>>> >> stuff, >> >> >>>> >>>> >> no tweaking >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press >> Play - >> >> >>>> >>>> >> out >> >> >>>> >>>> >> comes the >> >> >>>> >>>> >> sound ... >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >> Peter. >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>>> > ------------------------------ >> ------------------------------------------------ >> >> >>>> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >> >> >>>> >>>> > most >> >> >>>> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >> http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> >>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >> >> >>>> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/ >> lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >>>> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >> most >> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> http://sdm.link/slashdot____________________________________ >> ___________ >> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >> most >> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >>>> >>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> >>>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> >> >>>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality@... >> >> >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> >> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >> >> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> >> >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> >>>> Audacity-quality@... >> >> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> >> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> >>> Audacity-quality@... >> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> >> Audacity-quality@... >> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> > Audacity-quality@... >> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> >> Audacity-quality@... >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Audacity-quality mailing list >> > Audacity-quality@... >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> Audacity-quality mailing list >> Audacity-quality@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > Audacity-quality mailing list > Audacity-quality@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality > > |
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From: James Crook <crookj@in...> - 2017-07-25 22:05:25
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I think I know how to do that, and will do it when I get a round tuit :-) On 7/25/2017 11:00 PM, Peter Sampson wrote: > OK so now we have gotten rid of the visible ednotes for non-logged in > (civilian) users ... > > We still have to deal with the nav bars, as a non-logged in user still sees > the following > nav bars which are meant for editors only: > a) for editors > b) to do > c) tools > > Peter. |
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From: Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@gm...> - 2017-07-25 22:02:52
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On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:59 PM, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Steve the Fiddle < >> stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >> >>> On 25 July 2017 at 19:26, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Steve the Fiddle < >>> stevethefiddle@...> >>> > wrote: >>> >> >>> >> It was GarageBand that lead me to (wrongly) believe that Audacity was >>> >> not sending "All note off" messages. >>> >> I'd not suggested GarrageBand because (for me at least) it's very easy >>> >> to get notes stuck on (playing forever). >>> >> >>> >> Steve >>> > >>> > >>> > Ah, so you must have known what I just discovered about making >>> GarageBand >>> > listen to Audacity's MIDI events. >>> > >>> > Could there be a defect on GarageBand's side? >>> >>> Looks like that to me, though possibly a "limitation" rather than >>> "defect". GB is not really designed for this, and it does have MIDI >>> Reset for its own use. >>> >>> It's normal for MIDI files to sound different depending on the synth. >>> As an analogy, think of MIDI as the musical score, and the synth as >>> the instrument playing that score (music played on a trombone will >>> sound very different from the same musical score played on a flute) >>> >> >> Where is GB' panic button? I have been hitting command + delete to get >> rid of the stuck instrument. >> >> There is this reference of MIDI codes: https://www.midi.org/sp >> ecifications/item/table-1-summary-of-midi-message >> >> And if you examine AudioIO::AllNotesOff, you see that we send 0xB0 (which >> is binary 10110000) plus channel, and 0x7B (which is decimal 123), which is >> the correct notes-off message according to that table. >> >> So yes, maybe we can blame GarageBand. However, if we want to encourage >> naive users (like me! And dare I say Peter!) to play with Audacity + GB, >> then maybe we can code a workaround. Send all pending single notes-off >> messages, which GB properly interprets, when we pause or stop. >> >> PRL >> >> > ... aaaaaand done, at 07ea0ae03fa51765e791919ccb6d654f2ae88000 > > This works for me: now with GarageBand as my synth, Audacity's pause and > stop buttons cause quiet, even when I choose a pipe organ sound. > > Please, try this out on other than Mac and with other output devices, to > be sure there are no other ill-consequences. > > If this works, I think this is a P1 bug averted before we file it, and > then we might suggest GarageBand for naive users? > > PRL > Well, I have more reflections about GarageBand as the synth. In short, I think GarageBand makes Audacity look dumb, when it's really GarageBand being dumb. The thing I just fixed is one example: GarageBand not implementing the all-notes-off protocol, so that Audacity's Pause and Stop appeared to have a bug in them. They didn't, but I wrote a workaround just for GB. The other example is this. I am using for test purposes a MIDI file of an orchestral piece with ten of 16 channels used. When GarageBand opens the MIDI file directly, it splits it into several separate instrument tracks. When you play the same file from Audacity, GarageBand makes only one instrument track, and I haven't found out how to split it up. I know the information about separate channels, and even the names of the instruments, is not lost in the MIDI stream Audacity emits, because SimpleSynth, despite the simple interface, is smart enough to separate the channels and let you vary the timbres independently. So GarageBand, though it is prettier, is dumber about MIDI in a stream that it doesn't open from a file, but instead listens to from another application. Unless there is some advanced feature of it I just can't easily find. The short of it being, maybe it is better to recommend SimpleSynth after all. Or sforzando? Which I have not yet tried. PRL > > > >> >> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 25 July 2017 at 18:46, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@...> >>> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:40 PM, Peter Sampson >>> >> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Paul Licameli >>> >> >> <paul.licameli@...> >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Steve the Fiddle >>> >> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> On 25 July 2017 at 16:31, Paul Licameli <paul.licameli@... >>> > >>> >> >>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Peter Sampson >>> >> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> I wrote yesterday in an ednote on the draft page: >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Peter 24Jul17: I have grave reservations about us >>> recommending a >>> >> >>>> >> package >>> >> >>>> >> like this whose website shows that it has not been >>> >> >>>> >> maintained/updated >>> >> >>>> >> since >>> >> >>>> >> 5th September 2009. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> As you can see from Bill's response to me in that last email >>> in >>> >> >>>> >> this >>> >> >>>> >> thread, he >>> >> >>>> >> shares my misgivings in regard to this. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > I take Roger as more expert in this than any of us. Did he >>> not say >>> >> >>>> > he >>> >> >>>> > still >>> >> >>>> > recommends SimpleSynth to students? So why not let our manual >>> do >>> >> >>>> > the >>> >> >>>> > same? >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > So the concern is that the SimpleSynth project seems dormant >>> (or >>> >> >>>> > nicely >>> >> >>>> > stable?) since 2009. Can Roger recommend another more up to >>> date, >>> >> >>>> > recently >>> >> >>>> > maintained, and reputable third party software synth for >>> mention in >>> >> >>>> > our >>> >> >>>> > manual? >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > How is this so unlike our manual's recommendation of other >>> >> >>>> > third-party >>> >> >>>> > software such as LAME? >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> LAME is still actively developed / maintained, we know who >>> builds the >>> >> >>>> version that we suggest to our users, and the source code is >>> freely >>> >> >>>> available. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Experience has taught us to be cautious about recommending third >>> >> >>>> party >>> >> >>>> software. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> The more I think about it, the more concerned I am about us >>> >> >>>> >> needing >>> >> >>>> >> to >>> >> >>>> >> recommend >>> >> >>>> >> unknown third-party software downloads like this to our users >>> - >>> >> >>>> >> and >>> >> >>>> >> indeed >>> >> >>>> >> software >>> >> >>>> >> that is no longer maintained and tended. >>> >> >>>> >> I do have grave misgivings about this. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> One thing I do note is that my Mac will quite happily play >>> MIDI >>> >> >>>> >> files >>> >> >>>> >> without the need or >>> >> >>>> >> any of the setup in the frafft document I made yesterday. >>> >> >>>> >> Double-clicking >>> >> >>>> >> on a MIDI file >>> >> >>>> >> jus loads it straight into Garageband where it happily just ne >>> >> >>>> >> played >>> >> >>>> >> with >>> >> >>>> >> no other >>> >> >>>> >> intervention - so my thinking is: if Garageband can do that, >>> why >>> >> >>>> >> can't >>> >> >>>> >> Audacity? >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > My understanding is that Garageband must have its own internal >>> MIDI >>> >> >>>> > renderer. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Yes it does. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Eureka! GarageBand can play the MIDI stream that Audacity emits! >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> This discovery was not obvious, even after reading several of >>> >> >>> GarageBand's help pages, while loop-playing some MIDI silently in >>> >> >>> Audacity. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> But then I ignored the help pages and right-clicked on one of the >>> >> >>> track >>> >> >>> headers in the display, and chose "New Software Instrument Track." >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Voila! A new instrument appeared in the display, and I heard the >>> >> >>> music, >>> >> >>> as electric piano. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Now I am not familiar enough with GarageBand to separate the input >>> >> >>> channels that it is playing and vary the instruments as I can with >>> >> >>> SimpleSynth. Or, to get GarageBand to display the same as it >>> would if >>> >> >>> I >>> >> >>> opened the MIDI file directly. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> But this is something. You CAN do it on a Macbook just with >>> what's in >>> >> >>> the box. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> And the steps to reproduce are ... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Please. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > As I said, there is a right button context menu if you click above >>> any >>> >> > of >>> >> > the volume sliders of the track. >>> >> > >>> >> > Or even easier: Alt+Command+S. >>> >> > >>> >> > PRL >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Peter. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> PRL >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > And that makes Garageband an inherently more heavy-weight >>> program >>> >> >>>> > for >>> >> >>>> > MIDI >>> >> >>>> > play than ours should aspire to be, certainly for this release. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > Making Audacity do what Garageband does would entail adding >>> more >>> >> >>>> > third-party >>> >> >>>> > libraries to our build, wouldn't it? Not gonna happen in >>> 2.2.0. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> There are some other third party options that I've been looking >>> at, >>> >> >>>> but we've had very little time to research this as MIDI playback >>> has >>> >> >>>> only been working on macOS for such a short time. Perhaps we >>> need to >>> >> >>>> link the manual to a page on the wiki so that we can continue to >>> >> >>>> update the Mac documentation after release? >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Steve >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > PRL >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Peter. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Bill Wharrie < >>> billwh@...> >>> >> >>>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Peter: >>> >> >>>> >>> I totally agree with your reservations regarding SimpleSynth >>> not >>> >> >>>> >>> having >>> >> >>>> >>> been updated since 2009. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> I’m on El Capitan (still) and I have a “MIDI Studio” window >>> that >>> >> >>>> >>> looks >>> >> >>>> >>> somewhat different from yours. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Anyway, I’m not keen to install SimpleSynth on my “working” >>> >> >>>> >>> working >>> >> >>>> >>> computer until I know more about it. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> — Bill >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> On 2017/07/24, at 1:50 PM, Peter Sampson >>> >> >>>> >>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >>> >> >>>> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> I had another long tortuous afternoon writing up some draft >>> >> >>>> >>> instructions >>> >> >>>> >>> for getting MIDI playback to work on Mac; >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> alphamanual.audacityteam.org/man/User:PeterSampson/MIDI_play >>> back_on_Mac >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> I fell well into the bear trap of not restarting the >>> softwware >>> >> >>>> >>> synth >>> >> >>>> >>> after I reboooted >>> >> >>>> >>> my Mac - ann eventual proper read of what I'd written >>> earlier >>> >> >>>> >>> helped me >>> >> >>>> >>> climb >>> >> >>>> >>> out of that trap (shortly before I was about to shout "HELP" >>> >> >>>> >>> embarrasssingly). >>> >> >>>> >>> So I added a note about that on the page. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> It would help me if another Mac user could road-test the >>> >> >>>> >>> instructions on >>> >> >>>> >>> this page. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> (more comments inline) >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Cheers, >>> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Steve the Fiddle >>> >> >>>> >>> <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> I don't currently have hardware set up to test, but I'd >>> guess >>> >> >>>> >>>> that >>> >> >>>> >>>> on >>> >> >>>> >>>> both Windows and Linux, if the user has a soundcard that >>> has an >>> >> >>>> >>>> on-board MIDI synth, that will be available to Audacity >>> "out of >>> >> >>>> >>>> the >>> >> >>>> >>>> box". Most of the old SoundBlaster cards had an on-board >>> MIDI >>> >> >>>> >>>> synth, >>> >> >>>> >>>> though I don't know if current ones do. Has anyone tested >>> this? >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> My laptop has a Realtek soundcard - I have no idea if that is >>> >> >>>> >>> MIDI >>> >> >>>> >>> enabled >>> >> >>>> >>> or if that was what made MIDI playback just work on my >>> laptop. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> If I get some time later I can try my XP engine, which has no >>> >> >>>> >>> onboard >>> >> >>>> >>> soundcard, >>> >> >>>> >>> with and without my Edirol external USN soundcard. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Peter. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> Steve >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> On 23 July 2017 at 18:32, Peter Sampson >>> >> >>>> >>>> <petersampsonaudacity@...> >>> >> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>>> > The other really odd thing is that on the Mac, just >>> >> >>>> >>>> > double-clicking >>> >> >>>> >>>> > on a MIDI file (before the arm-wrestling installation >>> tweaks) >>> >> >>>> >>>> > just >>> >> >>>> >>>> > sweetly opens it up in Garageband wher it plays nicely. >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > On Windows double-clicking on a MIDI file just plays it >>> (with >>> >> >>>> >>>> > WMP) >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > Peter. >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 6:24 PM, Peter Sampson >>> >> >>>> >>>> > <petersampsonaudacity@...> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Well after a long and extremely tortuous bout of >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> arm-wrestling >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> my >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Macbook I finally managed to wring some MIDI sound out it >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> an >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Audacity Note track. But getting there was very painful. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> This was "following" the instructions that Paul gave me >>> (and >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> that we >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> currently have in the Manual): >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> http://alphamanual.audacitytea >>> m.org/man/Playing_and_Recording#midi >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> That link he recommends there requires a lot of (shall we >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> say) >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> interpretation. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> I'm thinking I'll have to write a set of notes for Mac - >>> one >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> which >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> normal humans can understand. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Steve is writing a similar set of notes for MIDI setup on >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Linux >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> with >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Timidity. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Not sure yet whether such notes should be in the Manual >>> or in >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> the >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Wiki >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> and linked to from the Manual - I really can't decide >>> right >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> now. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> On W10 it just worked straight out of the box - no >>> installing >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> extra >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> stuff, >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> no tweaking >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> just import the MIDI file into a Note track and press >>> Play - >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> out >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> comes the >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> sound ... >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Thoughts please. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >> Peter. >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>>> > ------------------------------ >>> ------------------------------------------------ >>> >> >>>> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>> >> >>>> >>>> > most >>> >> >>>> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >>> http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/ >>> lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>>> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>> most >>> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> http://sdm.link/slashdot____________________________________ >>> ___________ >>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-qualit >>> y >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>> most >>> >> >>>> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-qualit >>> y >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's >>> most >>> >> >>>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> >> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> >>>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> > Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>>> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> >> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >>> >> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> > Audacity-quality@... >>> >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> >> Audacity-quality@... >>> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Audacity-quality mailing list >>> > Audacity-quality@... >>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> > >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Audacity-quality mailing list >>> Audacity-quality@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-quality >>> >> >> > |
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From: Peter Sampson <petersampsonaudacity@gm...> - 2017-07-25 22:00:42
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OK so now we have gotten rid of the visible ednotes for non-logged in (civilian) users ... We still have to deal with the nav bars, as a non-logged in user still sees the following nav bars which are meant for editors only: a) for editors b) to do c) tools Peter. |
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From: Richard Ash <richard@au...> - 2017-07-25 19:29:37
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On Sun, 23 Jul 2017 22:07:02 +0100 Steve the Fiddle <stevethefiddle@...> wrote: > So we can see that there are number of disadvantages and traps for the > unwary in retaining the before zero fragment. > Is there any benefit - any reason that the before zero fragment should > be retained? I would be fairly miffed if I found that Audacity kept slicing the start off my recordings. Given the choice, I would probably have pre-roll enabled (i.e. keep sound from before I pressed record). I essentially never overdub, but do use Audacity quite a bit as a "grab that and analyse it" tool. I don't want to have to press record and then wait before making the sound to be sure I don't loose a bit. However presumably I could get round this by setting the "Latency Correction" preference to zero? Richard |